Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:19:10PM -0700, Yingjie Lan wrote: > This is to announce the initial release of expy 0.1.0. > More details at http://expy.sourceforge.net/ What is it (the announcement is too brief and I'm not going to click on a link without a real need)? How does it help core developers to develop Python (if you posted this to the python-dev mailing list instead of c.l.p or c.l.p.a)? Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[email protected] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Remove site-packages?!? [was: [Distutils] PEP 376 - from pythonpkgmgr's point of view]
On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 7:13 PM, David Lyon wrote: [snip] > The main problem imho has been that easy_install by default > has installed to /usr/lib/pythonX.X/site-packages when in > fact that really is an operating system controlled directory. > > So naughty naughty to setuptools I've witnessed this a few times... and I completely agree with that statement. :-) > That's why in pythonpkgmgr, we're moving to an entirely > different place where there is no chance of conflict with > the os package manager and python packages can be installed > without su privelages. [snip > Under ubuntu, it seems to be /usr/local/pythonX.X/site-packages > and I am checking other posix operating systems and trying to > work out what the equivilents might be. Perhaps I'm not reading what you're saying correctly. Doesn't /usr/local/pythonX.x/site-packages require su privileges to install? FWIW, the equivalent of /usr/local/pythonX.x/site-packages on Mac OS X seems to be /Library/Python/X.x/site-packages -John ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Remove site-packages?!? [was: [Distutils] PEP 376 - from pythonpkgmgr's point of view]
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Szakmeister wrote: > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 7:13 PM, David Lyon wrote: > [snip] >> The main problem imho has been that easy_install by default >> has installed to /usr/lib/pythonX.X/site-packages when in >> fact that really is an operating system controlled directory. >> >> So naughty naughty to setuptools > > I've witnessed this a few times... and I completely agree with that > statement. :-) That behvior isn't setuptools' fault: it is the behavior of *any* distutils-derived app. "OS controlled directory" is not a concept which the distutils honors at all: $prefix/lib/pytoonX.Y/site-packages is the *intended* installation location for any modules not shipped with Python. Consider the case where the user has built a separate python (e.g., to avoid conflicting with the OS version) in /opt/PythonX.y: are you actually saying that distutils / setuptools should somehow know the difference betweeen /usr/lib/pythonX.y/site-packages and /opt/PythonX.Y/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages? Or are you asserting that it is somehow invalid for distutils / setuptools to install things into /opt/PythonX.Y/lib/pythonX.y/site-packages, which is certainly not an "OS controlled directory." Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [email protected] Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKZf3V+gerLs4ltQ4RAud7AJ9GG9NY4UaKpQ5bBIQ+N6tztPVJSgCdEEIa DUugfdzvBYgPtaas9c+fTTg= =gvLY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
Hi, Here is a brief example on how to use expy to implement the math module: (for more details, see http://expy.sf.net/) """Python math module by expy-cxpy.""" from expy import * expymodule(__name__) #includes, defines, etc. @prologue def myprolog(): return """ #include """ @function(double) #return type: double def sqrt(x=double): #argument x: double """sqrt(x) --> the square root of x.""" return "sqrt(x)" #as an expression #a more terse way @function(double) def sin(x=double): """sin(x) --> the sin of x.""" pass #the deduced call: sin(x) #more functions ... expymodule(__name__) #end of module ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
Devs: I've been in correspondence with Microsoft about the provision of software, and it transpires that if you want to support Windows better Microsoft will be quite liberal about licensing: they will *give* you a Microsoft Developer Network license. If you are interested in offering better Windows support then please read the email below (note: Windows buildbot support would be a qualifying activity) and let me have the required details. I will pass them to Tom in bulk to simplify the processing. Note that I'm not following python-dev right now due to pressure of work, so PLEASE EMAIL ME DIRECTLY (or Cc me on your list replies) to make sure I get your information. Thanks! regards Steve Original Message Subject: RE: Support for Python: Windows Buildbots Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 08:52:10 -0700 From: Tom Hanrahan For the purposes of providing MSDN licenses to an open source development community, I consider anyone who writes, builds, tests or documents software to be a "developer who contributes" to the project. (In fact, having started out as a test engineer, I would take exception to anyone who claimed only people who write code are "developers" :-) We do ask that requests are for people who are active contributors and not just minor/occasional participants. [...] Here's what we need for each request: First Name Last Name Email Address (the subscription will be sent here, and this will also be used to log into the MSDN site) Project/Company (Python Software Foundation) Complete Mailing Address (Street Address) (City), (State/Province) (Postal or Zip Code) (Country) Phone Number -- Tom -Original Message- From: Steve Holden [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:01 AM To: Tom Hanrahan Cc: Anandeep Pannu; Pat Campbell; Python Board; Jim Hugunin Subject: Re: Support for Python: Windows Buildbots Tom: Further to Sam's email, in fact the original inquiry was instituted by the need of our part-time administrator to acquire an Office license. I am guessing she wouldn't qualify as an Open Source Developer, but that least naturally to the more interesting question of who would. A Bing search for "Microsoft Open Source Developer Program" didn't yield any usable hits, so it might be helpful if you could point me to some web resources that will help me make sense of what's available, who's eligible and how they apply for it. I will be happy to publicize the details to the development team. It's true, I believe, that most of the core Python developers use Linux, but both Tim Peters and I are primarily on the Windows platform. What's more, with the emergence of virtualization environments having Linux on your desktop is no hindrance to running Windows in a virtual machine (I run Linux on virtuals when appropriate). So let's take it from here and see where we go. regards Steve Sam Ramji wrote: > Steve: > > If the PSF's Windows users are developers who contribute to Python, we can > offer them MSDN subscriptions as part of the Open Source Developer program. > > MSDN subscriptions include copies of most Microsoft products (including > Office and Exchange) for use while developing and testing software. For more > details, check here - we provide Visual Studio Pro with MSDN Premium under > this program > (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/subscriptionschart.aspx). > > Tom Hanrahan is the Director of the Open Source Technology Center, and is the > sponsor of the Open Source Developer program. I've copied him here - please > contact him directly with the details of the people who would like to > participate. He's at [email protected]. > > We definitely want to make Windows a friendly place for Python developers! > > Cheers, > > Sam > [...] -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ Watch PyCon on video now! http://pycon.blip.tv/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:22:19AM -0700, Yingjie Lan wrote: > @function(double) #return type: double > def sqrt(x=double): #argument x: double Python 3.0 has arguments and return value annotations: http://docs.python.org/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html#new-syntax http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/ Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[email protected] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
I think the point of his software is to make it easier to interface Python with C code, although his examples were probably not the best. Eric Entin On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Oleg Broytmann wrote: > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:22:19AM -0700, Yingjie Lan wrote: > > @function(double) #return type: double > > def sqrt(x=double): #argument x: double > >Python 3.0 has arguments and return value annotations: > > http://docs.python.org/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html#new-syntax > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/ > > Oleg. > -- > Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[email protected] > Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/eric%40ericentin.com > ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 04:26:52PM -0400, Eric Entin wrote: > I think the point of his software is to make it easier to interface Python > with C code I think I understand that. And I think this > > > @function(double) #return type: double > > > def sqrt(x=double): #argument x: double is how C functions are declared in Python, so I think annotations is the way to go for such declarations. > >Python 3.0 has arguments and return value annotations: > > > > http://docs.python.org/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html#new-syntax > > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/ Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[email protected] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
Steve Holden wrote: > Devs: > > I've been in correspondence with Microsoft about the provision of > software, and it transpires that if you want to support Windows better > Microsoft will be quite liberal about licensing: they will *give* you a > Microsoft Developer Network license. > > If you are interested in offering better Windows support then please > read the email below (note: Windows buildbot support would be a > qualifying activity) and let me have the required details. I will pass > them to Tom in bulk to simplify the processing. [...] >> MSDN subscriptions include copies of most Microsoft products (including >> Office and Exchange) for use while developing and testing software. For >> more details, check here - we provide Visual Studio Pro with MSDN Premium >> under this program >> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/subscriptionschart.aspx). Thanks you for getting in touch with Microsoft. The deal is worth a fortune for any Windows developer! Does the MSDN subscription also include the permission to create and release binaries? Sam Ramji wrote just "developing and testing". Me and probably all other subscribers like to use the MSDN subscription to build Windows binaries of Python and Python related extensions. Can you please verify that we are allowed to use the subscription for that purpose, too? Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Christian Heimes wrote: > > Does the MSDN subscription also include the permission to create and > release binaries? Sam Ramji wrote just "developing and testing". Me and > probably all other subscribers like to use the MSDN subscription to > build Windows binaries of Python and Python related extensions. Can you > please verify that we are allowed to use the subscription for that > purpose, too? Considering that the compilers are all freely downloadable as part of the Windows SDK, it would be weird if the subscription were *more* restrictive than what you can get without it. Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, but eh, I'm just guessing. -- Curt Hagenlocher [email protected] ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
Curt Hagenlocher wrote: > Considering that the compilers are all freely downloadable as part of > the Windows SDK, it would be weird if the subscription were *more* > restrictive than what you can get without it. > > Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, but eh, I'm just guessing. Some features like PGO aren't available in VS Express Edition or Windows SDK. I'm not sure about all aspects of X86_64 builds, too. I'm prefer better safe than sorry. Disclaimer: I would never disclose that I'm a tiny bit paranoid ... :) Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
Christian Heimes wrote: > Steve Holden wrote: >> Devs: >> >> I've been in correspondence with Microsoft about the provision of >> software, and it transpires that if you want to support Windows better >> Microsoft will be quite liberal about licensing: they will *give* you a >> Microsoft Developer Network license. >> >> If you are interested in offering better Windows support then please >> read the email below (note: Windows buildbot support would be a >> qualifying activity) and let me have the required details. I will pass >> them to Tom in bulk to simplify the processing. > > [...] > >>> MSDN subscriptions include copies of most Microsoft products (including >>> Office and Exchange) for use while developing and testing software. For >>> more details, check here - we provide Visual Studio Pro with MSDN Premium >>> under this program >>> (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/subscriptionschart.aspx). > > Thanks you for getting in touch with Microsoft. The deal is worth a > fortune for any Windows developer! > > Does the MSDN subscription also include the permission to create and > release binaries? Sam Ramji wrote just "developing and testing". Me and > probably all other subscribers like to use the MSDN subscription to > build Windows binaries of Python and Python related extensions. Can you > please verify that we are allowed to use the subscription for that > purpose, too? > I'll ask. I don't see why not (it would hardly be in Microsoft's interest to help us create unreleasable open source projects, would it?) regards Steve -- Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/ Watch PyCon on video now! http://pycon.blip.tv/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Christian Heimes wrote: > > Some features like PGO aren't available in VS Express Edition or Windows > SDK. I'm not sure about all aspects of X86_64 builds, too. I'm prefer > better safe than sorry. Ah, you're right -- the PGO bits probably need VS Pro. The 64-bit compilers should be in the Windows SDK, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were not included in Express. -- Curt Hagenlocher [email protected] ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Support for Python/Windows
Curt Hagenlocher: > Ah, you're right -- the PGO bits probably need VS Pro. The 64-bit > compilers should be in the Windows SDK, but it wouldn't surprise me if > they were not included in Express. 64-bit isn't in Express and merging the 64 bit compiler from the SDK into Express may be possible but certainly isn't easy. I just use the command line compiler to check 64 bit issues. Neil ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Remove site-packages?!? [was: [D istutils] PEP 376 - from pythonpkgmgr's point of view]
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:41:41 -0400, Tres Seaver wrote: >>> The main problem imho has been that easy_install by default >>> has installed to /usr/lib/pythonX.X/site-packages when in >>> fact that really is an operating system controlled directory. >>> >>> So naughty naughty to setuptools .. > That behvior isn't setuptools' fault: it is the behavior of *any* > distutils-derived app. "OS controlled directory" is not a concept which > the distutils honors at all: $prefix/lib/pytoonX.Y/site-packages is the > *intended* installation location for any modules not shipped with Python. Ok - so naughty distutils... > Consider the case where the user has built a separate python (e.g., to > avoid conflicting with the OS version) in /opt/PythonX.y: are you > actually saying that distutils / setuptools should somehow know the > difference betweeen /usr/lib/pythonX.y/site-packages and > /opt/PythonX.Y/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages? It already does. If you run the python in /opt/pythonX.X you'll get a different value for sys.path than when you run the other python from /usr/lib/pythonX.X. Try it and see for yourself.. That's because sys.path is calculated relatively within site.py depending on where the interpretor is run from. > Or are you asserting that > it is somehow invalid for distutils / setuptools to install things into > /opt/PythonX.Y/lib/pythonX.y/site-packages, which is certainly not an > "OS controlled directory." Not at all. All I'm saying is that after so many years of python under linux and operating system we should have observed the common use cases and learned a thing or two. If you hadn't noticed, there is mayhem in package installation because the operating system tries to install its packages in the same place as setuptools does in development mode. That has got to be asking for trouble.. When I go into python on ubuntu I see there is /usr/local/pythonX.X/lib/ site-packages and I'm wondering why the hubba setuptools/distutils doesn't put packages there by default. That would solve a lot of problems. Just leave /usr/lib/pythonX.X//lib/site-packages to the O/S. Wrapping up.. most of the functionality that I'm asking for is already there. So I don't require anything extra. I don't want things taken out. All I'm suggesting is that we use what we already have a bit smarter. David ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
--- On Wed, 7/22/09, Oleg Broytmann wrote: > From: Oleg Broytmann > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 12:45 AM > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 04:26:52PM > -0400, Eric Entin wrote: > > I think the point of his software is to make it easier > to interface Python > > with C code > > I think I understand that. And I think > this > > > > > @function(double) #return type: double > > > > def sqrt(x=double): #argument x: double > > is how C functions are declared in > Python, so I think annotations is the > way to go for such declarations. > > > > Python 3.0 has arguments and return > value annotations: > > > > > > http://docs.python.org/3.0/whatsnew/3.0.html#new-syntax > > > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/ > Thanks, I think that is a brilliant suggestion, when expy is implemented for Python 3.0, this will greatly improve readability, and make it more like a natural part of Python. Yingjie ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Remove site-packages?!? [was: [Distutils] PEP 376 - from pythonpkgmgr's point of view]
On Jul 21, 2009, at 7:38 PM, David Lyon wrote: When I go into python on ubuntu I see there is /usr/local/pythonX.X/ lib/ site-packages and I'm wondering why the hubba setuptools/distutils doesn't put packages there by default. That would solve a lot of problems. Just leave /usr/lib/pythonX.X//lib/site-packages to the O/S. Uh guys, I'm not sure if anyone here noticed, but Debian and Ubuntu have switched to install their distribution-supplied python libraries into: /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/lib/dist-packages and distutils by default will install into /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/dist-packages starting with python 2.6. See: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/02/msg00431.html Since that email says "Discussed this with Barry Warsaw and Martin v. Loewis", I'd assume this change would be more widely known in the distutils/python-dev community, but apparently not?? James ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Remove site-packages?!? [was: [D istutils] PEP 376 - from pythonpkgmgr's point of view]
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:46:11 -0400, James Y Knight wrote: > Uh guys, I'm not sure if anyone here noticed, but Debian and Ubuntu > have switched to install their distribution-supplied python libraries > into: > /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/lib/dist-packages > and distutils by default will install into > /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/dist-packages > > starting with python 2.6. > .. > Since that email says "Discussed this with Barry Warsaw and Martin v. > Loewis", I'd assume this change would be more widely known in the > distutils/python-dev community, but apparently not?? Forgive my ignorance... I'm working with 2.5 on ubuntu and didn't think to try 2.6... It's good to know that the problem is fixed in 2.6 but I still need to make things work for pythonpkgmgr on ubuntu py2.5 as 2.5 is the default for ubuntu 8.10. Take care David ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
