Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Georg Brandl 
Jeffrey Yasskin schrieb:
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
>>> Guido van Rossum  python.org> writes:

 I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new
 files, but existing files should not be reindented.
>>>
>>> Well, right now many files are indented with a mix of spaces and tabs, 
>>> depending
>>> on who did the edit and how their editor was configured at the time.
>>
>> That's  a shame. We used to have more rigorous standards than allowing that.
>>
>>> Perhaps a graceful policy would be to mandate that all new edits be made 
>>> with
>>> spaces without touching other functions in the file. Then hopefully the code
>>> base would gradually converge to a tabless scheme.
>>
>> I don't think so. I find local consistency more important than global
>> consistency. A file can become really hard to read when different
>> indentation schemes are used in random parts of the code.
>>
>> If you have a problem configuring your editor, just say so and someone
>> will explain how to do it.
> 
> I've never figured out how to configure emacs to deduce whether the
> current file uses spaces or tabs and has a 4 or 8 space indent. I
> always try to get it right anyway, but it'd be a lot more convenient
> if my editor did it for me. If there are such instructions, perhaps
> they should be added to PEPs 7 and 8?

I use this little hack to detect indentation in Python's C files:

(defun c-select-style ()
  "Hack: Select the C style to use from buffer indentation."
  (save-excursion
(if (re-search-forward "^\t" 3000 t)
(c-set-style "python")
  (c-set-style "python-new"

(add-hook 'c-mode-hook 'c-select-style)

-- where "python" and "python-new" are two appropriate c-mode styles.

Georg


-- 
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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Re: [Python-Dev] Python-3.0, unicode, and os.environ

2008-12-15 Thread Ulrich Eckhardt 
On Friday 12 December 2008, Adam Olsen wrote:
> Only pages like this, which indicate the underlying API is an array of
> WCHAR:
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/michkap/archive/2005/05/11/416552.aspx

Hmm, true. So even there, the encoding isn't known...

> char * is just fine.  You need only pass a length along with it.  All
> internal APIs *must* already do this, as they support nul bytes.  Also
> note that the underlying POSIX APIs prohibit nul bytes in filenames,
> so it's irrelevant for them.

Hmmm, I see things like Py_GetPath() in the 2.7 sourcecode, which returns a 
plain char*. I really need to check if 3.0 is better.

thanks for the info

Uli

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Re: [Python-Dev] sys.stdout.write encoding failure

2008-12-15 Thread Amaury Forgeot d'Arc 
Hi,

Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> There is currently a unit test in the trunk that fails in verbose mode:
>
> $ ./python.exe Lib/test/test_doctest.py -v
> ...
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position
> 338-339: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> Apparently, the problem is that stdout cannot encode non-ascii characters:
>
 sys.stdout.write(u'f\xf6\xf6')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position
> 1-2: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> which is strange because
>
 sys.stdout.encoding
> 'UTF-8'
>
> and print has no problem with the same string:
 print u'f\xf6\xf6'
> föö
>
>
> Where does  'ascii' codec come from?

It's sys.getdefaultencoding default value.

sys.stdout.write() expects a bytes string. What you see here is the
coercion of the unicode to a string.

-- 
Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Steve Holden 
Miguel Lobo wrote:
>> I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new
>> files, but existing files should not be reindented. If you reindent,
>> much of the history of the file is essentially lost -- "svn blame"
>> will blame whoever reindented the code, and it's a pain to go back.
> 
> I believe "svn blame -x -w" ignores whitespace changes.
> 
Sounds like Uncle Timmy's whitespace management needs to become a little
 more draconian.

regards
 Steve
-- 
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Holden Web LLC  http://www.holdenweb.com/

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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread M.-A. Lemburg 
On 2008-12-14 21:43, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>> Personally, I think the indentation of, at least,
>> Objects/unicodeobject.c should be fixed. This file has become so
>> mixed-up with tab and space indents that I have no-idea what to use
>> when I edit it. Just to give an idea how messy it is, they are 5214
>> lines indented with tabs and 4272 indented with spaces (out the 9733
>> of the file).
> 
> As an Emacs variables block is present in the file, I would consider
> this normative, and declare that the official indenting is 4 spaces
> for the file, no tabs.

All the Unicode C code I wrote at the time used 4 space indents. I
would welcome this being restored. It got diluted over time.

Thanks,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Dec 15 2008)
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Re: [Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-15 Thread Josiah Carlson 
Would anyone mind terribly if I backported a version of:
http://bugs.python.org/issue4501 to 2.4 and 2.5?

It fixes some strange duplicate data issues on poll() with packets
with a nonstandard flag set.

 - Josiah

On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:55 PM, "Martin v. Löwis"  wrote:
> Christian Heimes wrote:
>> Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
>>> 2.5.3 is the last bug fix release of Python 2.5. Future 2.5.x releases
>>> will only include security fixes. According to the release notes, over
>>> 100 bugs and patches have been addressed since Python 2.5.1, many of
>>   
>>
>> Do you really mean 2.5.1?
>
> Oops, no - although the statement is technically correct; since 2.5.2,
> only 80 bugs have been added :-)
>
> Thanks for pointing that out.
>
> Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.0 urllib fails with chunked HTTP responses

2008-12-15 Thread Jeremy Hylton 
I have a patch that appears to fix this bug
http://bugs.python.org/file12361/urllib-chunked.diff
but I'm not sure about its interaction with the io module and
RawIOBase.  Is there a new IO expert who could take a look at it for
me?

Jeremy

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:06 PM, Jeremy Hylton  wrote:
> This bug is pretty serious, because urllib will insert garbage into
> the application-visible data for a chunked response.  It simply
> ignores the fact that it's reading a chunked response and includes the
> chunked header data is payload data.  The original bug was reported in
> September, but no one noticed it.  It was reported again recently.
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue3761
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4631
>
> I suspect we'd want to get a 3.0.1 out as soon as this is fixed, but
> that's not my call.
>
> Jeremy
>
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Brett Cannon 
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 00:20, Georg Brandl  wrote:
> Jeffrey Yasskin schrieb:
>> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
 Guido van Rossum  python.org> writes:
>
> I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new
> files, but existing files should not be reindented.

 Well, right now many files are indented with a mix of spaces and tabs, 
 depending
 on who did the edit and how their editor was configured at the time.
>>>
>>> That's  a shame. We used to have more rigorous standards than allowing that.
>>>
 Perhaps a graceful policy would be to mandate that all new edits be made 
 with
 spaces without touching other functions in the file. Then hopefully the 
 code
 base would gradually converge to a tabless scheme.
>>>
>>> I don't think so. I find local consistency more important than global
>>> consistency. A file can become really hard to read when different
>>> indentation schemes are used in random parts of the code.
>>>
>>> If you have a problem configuring your editor, just say so and someone
>>> will explain how to do it.
>>
>> I've never figured out how to configure emacs to deduce whether the
>> current file uses spaces or tabs and has a 4 or 8 space indent. I
>> always try to get it right anyway, but it'd be a lot more convenient
>> if my editor did it for me. If there are such instructions, perhaps
>> they should be added to PEPs 7 and 8?
>
> I use this little hack to detect indentation in Python's C files:
>
> (defun c-select-style ()
>  "Hack: Select the C style to use from buffer indentation."
>  (save-excursion
>(if (re-search-forward "^\t" 3000 t)
>(c-set-style "python")
>  (c-set-style "python-new"
>
> (add-hook 'c-mode-hook 'c-select-style)
>
> -- where "python" and "python-new" are two appropriate c-mode styles.
>

Anyone have something similar for Vim?

-Brett
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Re: [Python-Dev] Psyco for -OO or -O

2008-12-15 Thread Mike Klaas 


On 13-Dec-08, at 5:28 AM, Michael Foord wrote:


Lie Ryan wrote:
I'm sure probably most of you knows about psyco[1], the optimizer.  
Python has an -O and -OO flag that is intended to be optimization  
flag, but we know that currently it doesn't do much. Why not add  
psyco as standard library and let -O or -OO invoke psyco?




This really belongs on Python-ideas and not Python-dev.

The main reason why not is that someone(s) from the Python core team  
would then need to 'own' maintaining Psyco (which is x86 only as well


Worse, it is 32bit only, which has greatly diminished its usefulness  
in the last few years.


-Mike
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Guido van Rossum 
Aha! A specific file. I'm supportive of fixing that specific file. Now
if you can figure out how to do it and still allow merging between 2.6
and 3.0 that would be cool.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Alexandre Vassalotti
 wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
>> Guido van Rossum  python.org> writes:
>>>
>>> I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new
>>> files, but existing files should not be reindented.
>>
>> Well, right now many files are indented with a mix of spaces and tabs, 
>> depending
>> on who did the edit and how their editor was configured at the time.
>>
>
> Personally, I think the indentation of, at least,
> Objects/unicodeobject.c should be fixed. This file has become so
> mixed-up with tab and space indents that I have no-idea what to use
> when I edit it. Just to give an idea how messy it is, they are 5214
> lines indented with tabs and 4272 indented with spaces (out the 9733
> of the file).
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Re: [Python-Dev] How to force export of a particular symbol from python.exe?

2008-12-15 Thread Jim Murphy 

Martin:

You wrote:

  "That's not the issue. Had pymath.o been linked into python, it's
   symbols would have been exported (is that proper use of English
   tenses?)"

Yes, it's a proper and idiomatic use of the subjunctive mood, which
many native (American) English speakers manage to mangle.

I also noticed you wrote the following a few emails later on the
python-dev list:

"Using that would require to split pymath.c into multiple files."

My ear tells me that either "that would require splitting pymath,c ..."
or "that would require one to split pymat.c ..." is much more  
grammatical
than "that would require to split ...," but I can't cite a rule. It is  
frequently
acceptable to use either the infinitive  or the gerund form of a verb,  
which
would imply that "to split" should be interchangeable with  
"splitting," but

I believe that some verbs have preferences for one form over the other.

My ear seems to be thinking of the template "require someone to do
something," and rebels at hearing the "to" without a "someone."  That's
the  best excuse for a rule I could come up with.

I actually spent a half-hour trying to find rules on the uses in  
English of
infinitives versus gerunds and did not find anything definitive. I  
realize

now, to my disgust,  that English usage is very badly afflicted with
"special casing."


Jim Murphy
326 Sunnyview Lane
Ithaca, New York  14850-6258
Tel (home): +1 607-319-4161





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Re: [Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis 
> Would anyone mind terribly if I backported a version of:
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4501 to 2.4 and 2.5?

Yes, I would. These branches are frozen right now until the
final release is made. Afterwards, only security-critical patches
are allowed, which this one is not, AFAICT.

> It fixes some strange duplicate data issues on poll() with packets
> with a nonstandard flag set.

People experiencing this should upgrade to 2.6 (when it is fixed there).

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] How to force export of a particular symbol from python.exe?

2008-12-15 Thread Steve Holden 
Jim Murphy wrote:
> Martin:
> 
> You wrote:
> 
>   "That's not the issue. Had pymath.o been linked into python, it's
>symbols would have been exported (is that proper use of English
>tenses?)"
> 
It does, however, make the common mistake of putting an apostrophe in a
possessive personal pronoun.

> Yes, it's a proper and idiomatic use of the subjunctive mood, which
> many native (American) English speakers manage to mangle.
> 
> I also noticed you wrote the following a few emails later on the
> python-dev list:
> 
> "Using that would require to split pymath.c into multiple files."
> 
> My ear tells me that either "that would require splitting pymath,c ..."
> or "that would require one to split pymat.c ..." is much more grammatical
> than "that would require to split ...," but I can't cite a rule. It is
> frequently
> acceptable to use either the infinitive  or the gerund form of a verb,
> which
> would imply that "to split" should be interchangeable with "splitting," but
> I believe that some verbs have preferences for one form over the other.
> 
> My ear seems to be thinking of the template "require someone to do
> something," and rebels at hearing the "to" without a "someone."  That's
> the  best excuse for a rule I could come up with.
> 
> I actually spent a half-hour trying to find rules on the uses in English of
> infinitives versus gerunds and did not find anything definitive. I realize
> now, to my disgust,  that English usage is very badly afflicted with
> "special casing."
> 
This is only significant because Martin is a perfectionist who wants to
write better English. I can't remember a time when his
slightly-less-than-perfect command of the language rendered anything he
wrote incomprehensible.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266   +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC  http://www.holdenweb.com/

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Re: [Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-15 Thread Victor Stinner 
Le Monday 15 December 2008 19:50:42 Josiah Carlson, vous avez écrit :
> Would anyone mind terribly if I backported a version of:
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4501 to 2.4 and 2.5?

First the patch have be reviewed and at least applied to trunk :-)

Can you give an short example to describe the bug? Maybe write an unit test?

I don't know poll(), so I can't help for this issue.

-- 
Victor Stinner aka haypo
http://www.haypocalc.com/blog/
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Re: [Python-Dev] How to force export of a particular symbol from python.exe?

2008-12-15 Thread Nick Coghlan 
Steve Holden wrote:
> This is only significant because Martin is a perfectionist who wants to
> write better English. I can't remember a time when his
> slightly-less-than-perfect command of the language rendered anything he
> wrote incomprehensible.

I'd actually criticise the written communication abilities of many of my
native English speaking friends long before I'd criticise the English
writing of most of the non-Native English speakers on this list (i.e.
most of the writing here is of a higher standard than many native
English speakers could manage).

This particular thread of discussion does appear to be veering a little
off topic though :)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   [email protected]   |   Brisbane, Australia
---
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Re: [Python-Dev] How to force export of a particular symbol from python.exe?

2008-12-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis 
> This particular thread of discussion does appear to be veering a little
> off topic though :)

And I apologize for starting it :-)

Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Scott Dial 
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Aha! A specific file. I'm supportive of fixing that specific file. Now
> if you can figure out how to do it and still allow merging between 2.6
> and 3.0 that would be cool.

Like "svn blame", you can use "svn merge -x -w" to avoid merging
whitespace changes. However, svnmerge.py does not support any of these
command-line flags being passed along to the svn command-line. It should
be pretty easy to hack in, if it was desirable.

-Scott

-- 
Scott Dial
[email protected]
[email protected]
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Martin v. Löwis 
> Aha! A specific file. I'm supportive of fixing that specific file. Now
> if you can figure out how to do it and still allow merging between 2.6
> and 3.0 that would be cool.

In the specific case, I think it's best to fix the 2.7 source, and then
merge the changes into 3k. The 3.x version is still similar to the 2.x
version, except for a number of additions (such as interning).

The changes should probably then also merged into the 2.6 and 3.0
branches, to allow easy merging in the future. Backporting to 2.5 will
become difficult; it will also become unnecessary.

Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread Alexandre Vassalotti 
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Guido van Rossum  wrote:
> Aha! A specific file. I'm supportive of fixing that specific file. Now
> if you can figure out how to do it and still allow merging between 2.6
> and 3.0 that would be cool.
>

Here's the simplest solution I thought so far to allow smooth merging
subsequently. First, fix the 2.6 version with 4-space indent. Over a
third of the file is already using spaces for indentation, so I don't
think losing consistency is a big deal. Then, block the trunk commit
with svnmerge to prevent it from being merged back to the py3k branch.
Finally, fix the 3.0 version.

-- Alexandre
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Re: [Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-15 Thread Josiah Carlson 
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Victor Stinner
 wrote:
> Le Monday 15 December 2008 19:50:42 Josiah Carlson, vous avez écrit :
>> Would anyone mind terribly if I backported a version of:
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue4501 to 2.4 and 2.5?
>
> First the patch have be reviewed and at least applied to trunk :-)
>
> Can you give an short example to describe the bug? Maybe write an unit test?
>
> I don't know poll(), so I can't help for this issue.

One of our 3rd party users of asyncore, ftpdlib by Giampaolo Rodola,
discovered a duplicate data issue related to data with the urgent data
flag attached to TCP packets.  I don't know the underlying source of
the issue (it smells like a buffer duplication bug, but I can't see
that asyncore is doing it), but the patch does fix the issue.

But with policies being "only security issues are backported to 2.4
and 2.5", and this is definitely not a security issue, I won't
backport it.

 - Josiah
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] python-3000 list is closed

2008-12-15 Thread skip 

Martin> The mailing list [email protected] is now closed. All
Martin> further discussion of Python 3.x takes place on
Martin> [email protected].

Maybe set up a simple email alias reflecting python-3000 to python-dev?

Skip
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] python-3000 list is closed

2008-12-15 Thread Barry Warsaw 

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On Dec 15, 2008, at 7:44 PM, [email protected] wrote:



   Martin> The mailing list [email protected] is now closed. All
   Martin> further discussion of Python 3.x takes place on
   Martin> [email protected].

Maybe set up a simple email alias reflecting python-3000 to python- 
dev?



Or,

https://launchpad.net/replybot

- -Barry

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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] python-3000 list is closed

2008-12-15 Thread Brad Knowles 

Barry Warsaw wrote:


Maybe set up a simple email alias reflecting python-3000 to python-dev?



Or,

https://launchpad.net/replybot


If we're going to leave something configured in Mailman, it already has an 
auto-reply functionality.  It would be nearly trivial to set that up.


--
Brad Knowles 
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team & Co-Moderator of the
mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists
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Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-15 Thread bharat satsangi 
please unsubscribe me



On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Brett Cannon  wrote:

>  On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 00:20, Georg Brandl  wrote:
> > Jeffrey Yasskin schrieb:
> >> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Guido van Rossum 
> wrote:
> >>> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Antoine Pitrou 
> wrote:
>  Guido van Rossum  python.org> writes:
> >
> > I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new
> > files, but existing files should not be reindented.
> 
>  Well, right now many files are indented with a mix of spaces and tabs,
> depending
>  on who did the edit and how their editor was configured at the time.
> >>>
> >>> That's  a shame. We used to have more rigorous standards than allowing
> that.
> >>>
>  Perhaps a graceful policy would be to mandate that all new edits be
> made with
>  spaces without touching other functions in the file. Then hopefully
> the code
>  base would gradually converge to a tabless scheme.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think so. I find local consistency more important than global
> >>> consistency. A file can become really hard to read when different
> >>> indentation schemes are used in random parts of the code.
> >>>
> >>> If you have a problem configuring your editor, just say so and someone
> >>> will explain how to do it.
> >>
> >> I've never figured out how to configure emacs to deduce whether the
> >> current file uses spaces or tabs and has a 4 or 8 space indent. I
> >> always try to get it right anyway, but it'd be a lot more convenient
> >> if my editor did it for me. If there are such instructions, perhaps
> >> they should be added to PEPs 7 and 8?
> >
> > I use this little hack to detect indentation in Python's C files:
> >
> > (defun c-select-style ()
> >  "Hack: Select the C style to use from buffer indentation."
> >  (save-excursion
> >(if (re-search-forward "^\t" 3000 t)
> >(c-set-style "python")
> >  (c-set-style "python-new"
> >
> > (add-hook 'c-mode-hook 'c-select-style)
> >
> > -- where "python" and "python-new" are two appropriate c-mode styles.
> >
>
> Anyone have something similar for Vim?
>
> -Brett
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-- 
Thanks and Regards

Bharat
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Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] python-3000 list is closed

2008-12-15 Thread Terry Reedy 

[email protected] wrote:

Martin> The mailing list [email protected] is now closed. All
Martin> further discussion of Python 3.x takes place on
Martin> [email protected].

Maybe set up a simple email alias reflecting python-3000 to python-dev?


It is currently mirrored to news.gmane.org (which is how I have read it 
and all other Python lists).  I presume they will want to keep their 
archive (or maybe not), but whatever bot is set up might take their bots 
into consideration, unless there is a way to explicitly close it on 
their end.  (I am ignorant of this sort of stuff, but appreciate the 
mirror.)


tjr

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