Re: [Python-Dev] OT: World's oldest ritual discovered. Worshipped the python 70, 000 years ago
Oleg Broytmann wrote: > http://www.apollon.uio.no/vis/art/2006_4/Artikler/python_english > >(-: > > Oleg. I noticed the other day that the word "Pythonic" means "Prophetic", according to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1913 edition: Py*thon"ic (?), a. [L. pythonicus, Gr. . See Pythian.] Prophetic; oracular; pretending to foretell events. So, in the future, when someone says that a particular feature isn't "pythonic", what they are really saying is that the feature isn't a good indicator of things to come, which implies that such statements are self-fulfilling prophesies. Which means that statements about whether a particular language feature is pythonic are themselves pythonic. -- Talin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OT: World's oldest ritual discovered. Worshipped the python 70, 000 years ago
On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 12:34:22AM -0800, Talin wrote: > I noticed the other day that the word "Pythonic" means "Prophetic", This is, of course, due to the Greek mythology and the oracle at Delphi! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_%28mythology%29 Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OT: World's oldest ritual discovered. Worshipped the python 70, 000 years ago
Talin wrote: > Oleg Broytmann wrote: >> http://www.apollon.uio.no/vis/art/2006_4/Artikler/python_english >> >>(-: >> >> Oleg. > > I noticed the other day that the word "Pythonic" means "Prophetic", > according to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1913 edition: > >Py*thon"ic (?), a. [L. pythonicus, Gr. . See Pythian.] Prophetic; >oracular; pretending to foretell events. Surely it is. The PSU once used the time machine to travel to Ancient Greece and gave the Delphi priestess her name, along with a schoolbook about ancient histo ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Small tweak to tokenize.py?
Guido van Rossum wrote: >> it would be a good thing if it could, optionally, be made to report >> horizontal whitespace as well. > > It's remarkably easy to get this out of the existing API sure, but it would be even easier if I didn't have to write that code myself (last time I did that, I needed a couple of tries before the parser handled all cases correctly...). but maybe this could simply be handled by a helper generator in the tokenizer module, that simply wraps the standard tokenizer generator and inserts whitespace tokens where necessary? > keep track > of the end position returned by the previous call, and if it's > different from the start position returned by the next call, slice the > line text from the column positions, assuming the line numbers are the > same.If the line numbers differ, something has been eating \n tokens; > this shouldn't happen any more with my patch. you'll still have to deal with multiline strings, right? ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Linux Standard Base (LSB)
Hi Andrew, On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 03:27:09PM +1100, Andrew Bennetts wrote: > In both the current Debian and Ubuntu releases, the "python2.4" binary package > includes distutils. Ah, good. This must be a relatively recent change. I'm not a Debian user, but merely a user that happens to have to use a Debian machine occasionally. None of these machines had distutils installed by default so far, but it looks like things are going to improve in the future then. Now I only have to hope that 2.4.4 makes its way out of 'unstable' soon. As far as I can tell sysadmins installing the current 'testing' would still be getting a Python 2.4.3, not modern enough to cope with the arithmetic overflow issues introduced by the cutting-edge GCC of 'testing'. But it looks like any year now I'll be able to assume that Linux machines all provide a Python that works as nicely as a freshly compiled one. A bientot, Armin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OT: World's oldest ritual discovered. Worshipped the python 70, 000 years ago
On Dec 2, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: > Surely it is. The PSU once used the time machine to travel to Ancient > Greece and gave the Delphi priestess her name, along with a schoolbook > about ancient histo The PSU does not, nor ever has existed. Any statement implying otherwise is false and subversive. There is no PSU and even if there is, it has no influence whatsoev ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Linux Standard Base (LSB)
Op vrijdag 01-12-2006 om 00:16 uur [tijdzone +], schreef Steve Holden: > Jan Claeys wrote: > [...] > > Probably the Debian maintainers could have named packages differently to > > make things less confusing for newbies (e.g. by having the 'pythonX.Y' > > packages being meta-packages that depend on all binary packages built > > from the upstream source package), but that doesn't mean splitting > > "python" (or other projects) up in several packages is wrong. E.g. when > > installing on an flash drive, people are probably quite happy to leave > > the 20 MiB of Python documentation out... > > > Right, who cares about newbies, they're only the future of the language, > after all. I take your point that some flexibility is advantageous once > you get past the newbie stage, but I think that here we are talking > about trying to avoid mis-steps that will potentially put people off > making that transition. Like I said, it's possible to split Python without making things complicated for newbies. The fact that Debian didn't do so in the past might be a considered a packaging bug, but the problem isn't in the practice of splitting upstream projects in several binary packages itself. > > Maybe python.org can include several logical "divisions" in the > > python.org distribution and make it easy for OS distro packagers to make > > separate packages if they want to, as most of them are quite happy to > > have less work to do, provided the upstream "divisions" do more or less > > what they want. ;-) (Oh, and such a division should IMHO also include > > a "minimal python" for embedded/low-resource hardware use, where things > > like distutils, GUI toolkits, a colelction of 20 XML libraries and > > documentation are most likely not needed.) > If only there were some guarantee that the distros would respect any > project partitioning imposed by python-deb we might stand a chance of > resolving these issues. There will never be a guarantee, as some distros might have very special targets, but I'm pretty sure that most distros would follow any _sensible_ proposition (and looking at current practice might give a good clue about what they want). -- Jan Claeys ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] OT: World's oldest ritual discovered. Worshipped the python 70, 000 years ago
Frank Lomax wrote: > The PSU does not, nor ever has existed. Any statement implying > otherwise is false and subversive. There is no PSU and even if there > is, it has no influence whatsoev it's a bit interesting that every time someone writes something along those lines, their computer's Power Supply Unit always gives up halfway through the last sentence ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Linux Standard Base (LSB)
Armin Rigo a écrit : > Now I only have to hope that 2.4.4 makes its way out of 'unstable' soon. > As far as I can tell sysadmins installing the current 'testing' would > still be getting a Python 2.4.3, not modern enough to cope with the > arithmetic overflow issues introduced by the cutting-edge GCC of > 'testing'. well, the usual way to express your "hope" would be to file a bug on the python2.4 package, to make sure the maintainers are aware of the problem. However, it looks like 2.4.4 made it to testing today, so it might not be necessary. Cheers, BC ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Small tweak to tokenize.py?
On 12/2/06, Fredrik Lundh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > >> it would be a good thing if it could, optionally, be made to report > >> horizontal whitespace as well. > > > > It's remarkably easy to get this out of the existing API > > sure, but it would be even easier if I didn't have to write that code > myself (last time I did that, I needed a couple of tries before the > parser handled all cases correctly...). > > but maybe this could simply be handled by a helper generator in the > tokenizer module, that simply wraps the standard tokenizer generator > and inserts whitespace tokens where necessary? A helper sounds like a promising idea. Anyone interested in volunteering a patch? > > keep track > > of the end position returned by the previous call, and if it's > > different from the start position returned by the next call, slice the > > line text from the column positions, assuming the line numbers are the > > same.If the line numbers differ, something has been eating \n tokens; > > this shouldn't happen any more with my patch. > > you'll still have to deal with multiline strings, right? No, they are returned as a single token whose start and stop correctly reflect line/col of the begin and end of the token. My current code (based on the second patch I gave in this thread and the algorithm described above) doesn't have to special-case anything except the ENDMARKER token (to break out of its loop :-). -- --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/) ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Linux Standard Base (LSB)
Jan Claeys schrieb: > Like I said, it's possible to split Python without making things > complicated for newbies. You may have that said, but I don't believe its truth. For example, most distributions won't include Tkinter in the "standard" Python installation: Tkinter depends on _tkinter depends on Tk depends on X11 client libraries. Since distributors want to make X11 client libraries optional, they exclude Tkinter. So people wonder why they can't run Tkinter applications (search comp.lang.python for proof that people wonder about precisely that). I don't think the current packaging tools can solve this newbie problem. It might be solvable if installation of X11 libraries would imply installation of Tcl, Tk, and Tkinter: people running X (i.e. most desktop users) would see Tkinter installed, yet it would be possible to omit Tkinter. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Linux Standard Base (LSB)
Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> Like I said, it's possible to split Python without making things >> complicated for newbies. > > You may have that said, but I don't believe its truth. For example, > most distributions won't include Tkinter in the "standard" Python > installation: Tkinter depends on _tkinter depends on Tk depends on > X11 client libraries. Since distributors want to make X11 client > libraries optional, they exclude Tkinter. So people wonder why > they can't run Tkinter applications (search comp.lang.python for > proof that people wonder about precisely that). comp.lang.python only represents a *very* tiny fraction of the python universe, though. I'd be much more interested in hearing from people tracking distribution-specific forums. > I don't think the current packaging tools can solve this newbie > problem. It might be solvable if installation of X11 libraries > would imply installation of Tcl, Tk, and Tkinter: people running > X (i.e. most desktop users) would see Tkinter installed, yet > it would be possible to omit Tkinter. I think this is a way too python-centric view of things. maybe we could just ask distributors to prepare a page that describes what portions of the standard distribution they do include, and in what packages they've put the various components, and link to those from the library reference and/or the wiki or FAQ? is there perhaps some machine-readable format that could be used for this? ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Linux Standard Base (LSB)
Fredrik Lundh schrieb: > maybe we could just ask distributors to prepare a page that describes > what portions of the standard distribution they do include, and in what > packages they've put the various components, and link to those from the > library reference and/or the wiki or FAQ? is there perhaps some > machine-readable format that could be used for this? Debian has its machine-readable (in some sense) package list at packages.debian.org. Through several links, you get to http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/python2.4.html which gives you the list of binary packages produced from the source package: idle-python2.4 python2.4 python2.4-dbg python2.4-dev python2.4-doc python2.4-examples python2.4-minimal Interestingly enough, _tkinter.so isn't included in any of these; instead, you have to look at http://packages.qa.debian.org/p/python-stdlib-extensions.html Depending on what precisely "this" is you want to use it for, there are other lists as well. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
