[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan  added the comment:

I haven't investigated in detail yet, but this is the final line showing the 
failing test:

test_module (importlib.test.builtin.test_loader.LoaderTests) ... Segmentation 
fault

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[issue10775] assertRaises as a context manager should accept a 'msg' keyword argument.

[Daniel Urban]

Changes by Daniel Urban :


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nosy: +durban

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[issue10969] Make Tcl recommendation more prominent

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

I'm a little concerned about that wording change. I proposed the current 
wording and footnote because the situation is dynamic and is not so cut and 
dried.  For one, Apple could at anytime fix their Tcl/Tk.  Another, ActiveState 
could issue a new (and presumably better) patchlevel of 8.5 (rather than 
8.5.9).  Third, users need to be aware that ActiveState Tcl/Tk comes with its 
own license which may not be compatible with their usage (a warning to be added 
in a forthcoming update to the mac/tcltk web page).  As it stands, the Download 
page, the Installer Welcome message, the Installer readme, and the last ditch 
IDLE warning message all point the user to one place for current information.  
Yes, the download page can be easily updated but I could see a duplicated but 
distilled recommendation taking on a life of its own.  But I concede that my 
concern may be misplaced.

--
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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> except for the segfault in test_importlib.

Yes, as reported in my previous comment :-) Let's update the patch for 
practical reasons. But I don't want to touch 
http://codereview.appspot.com/1874048 (based on patch version 4).

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file20477/issue3080-5.patch

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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[STINNER Victor]

Changes by STINNER Victor :


Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file20474/issue3080-4.patch

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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[STINNER Victor]

Changes by STINNER Victor :


Removed file: http://bugs.python.org/file20475/issue3080-4-svn.patch

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[issue4819] Misc/cheatsheet needs updating

[Marc-Andre Lemburg]

Marc-Andre Lemburg  added the comment:

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> 
> Raymond Hettinger  added the comment:
> 
> Perhaps the cheatsheet can be transferred to a wiki page and we can put out a 
> comp.lang.python call for updates.

Good idea.

I just want to prevent the text from being lost in SVN
history somewhere... one of the things I liked about CVS was the Attic.
With Subversion deleted files are simply gone and unless someone remembers
them, they are lost.

> Also, +1 on the summer of code idea.

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[issue9884] The 4th parameter of method always None or 0 on x64 Windows.

[Christoph Gohlke]

Christoph Gohlke  added the comment:

The provided example has two problems: The DLL should be loaded as cdll, not 
windll. C_METHOD_TYPE4 uses c_int32 as parameter type while pyFunc4Type in 
testPy2.cpp uses LPVOID (64 bit on win-amd64). Even with those corrections the 
issue remains.

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[issue9884] The 4th parameter of method always None or 0 on x64 Windows.

[Owen]

Owen  added the comment:

yes, I tried lots of types. The issue still happens. The same case in Ubuntu 
and Mac were works well.

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[issue9884] The 4th parameter of method always None or 0 on x64 Windows.

[Christoph Gohlke]

Christoph Gohlke  added the comment:

The patch attached to #8275 fixes this issue and possibly also #9266.

Tested with Python 2.7.1 64 bit on Windows 7.

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[issue8275] callback function on win64 results in bad behavior. mem corruption?

[Christoph Gohlke]

Christoph Gohlke  added the comment:

This patch fixes issue #9884 and possibly #9266.

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[issue9884] The 4th parameter of method always None or 0 on x64 Windows.

[Owen]

Owen  added the comment:

wow~~~ It works on my PC too (Windows 2003 STD x64). Thanks.

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

No, your change is in the read_directory() function, which reads the whole 
archive the first time it's used.

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> No, your change is in the read_directory() function, 
> which reads the whole archive the first time it's used.

Oh, I though that read_directory() only reads files one by one.

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

Ronald Oussoren and Amaury Forgeot d'Arc: do you think that it is an acceptable 
limitation to only accept ASCII filenames in python32.zip? (not in all ZIP 
files, just in the file loaded at startup)

All possible solutions:

 a) Only accept ASCII filenames in python32.zip
 b) Only accept ZIP archive using UTF-8 filenames (unicode flag set for all 
files in the archive). On Linux, I don't know how to create such archive. I 
suppose that most ZIP archivers prefer the legacy format (unicode flag unset). 
But few people produce python32.zip files, maybe only py2exe / pyfreeze 
developers.
 c) Add encodings/cp437.py to your python3.2/ directory (outside the ZIP file), 
which can be a problem :-/
 d) Implement cp437 in C

I dislike (c) and (d), but I cannot say if (a) or (b) is better.

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[issue10971] python Lib/test/regrtest.py -R 3:3: test_zipimport_support fails

[STINNER Victor]

New submission from STINNER Victor :

"./python Lib/test/regrtest.py test_zipimport_support" pass, but not with the 
-R option.


$ ./python Lib/test/regrtest.py -R 3:3: test_zipimport_support
[1/1] test_zipimport_support
beginning 6 repetitions
123456
test test_zipimport_support failed -- Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/haypo/prog/SVN/py3k/Lib/test/test_zipimport_support.py", line 96, 
in test_inspect_getsource_issue4223
self.assertEqual(inspect.getsource(zip_pkg.foo), test_src)
  File "/home/haypo/prog/SVN/py3k/Lib/inspect.py", line 693, in getsource
lines, lnum = getsourcelines(object)
  File "/home/haypo/prog/SVN/py3k/Lib/inspect.py", line 682, in getsourcelines
lines, lnum = findsource(object)
  File "/home/haypo/prog/SVN/py3k/Lib/inspect.py", line 530, in findsource
raise IOError('could not get source code')
IOError: could not get source code

1 test failed:
test_zipimport_support


--
components: Tests
messages: 126718
nosy: haypo
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: python Lib/test/regrtest.py -R 3:3: test_zipimport_support fails
versions: Python 3.2

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[issue10968] Timer class inheritance issue

[Benjamin VENELLE]

Benjamin VENELLE  added the comment:

I've tested it with Python 3.1.2 under Windows 7 32 bits. It raises the 
following TypeError exception "function() argument 1 must be code, not str"

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

What about tools that builds one .zip file for all modules, like py2exe?

A cp437 decoder is not so ugly to implement in C. It's just a charmap.

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

Oh, py2app is implemented in Python and use the zipfile module. So if we can 
control how the filename is encoded, we can fix py2app to workaround this 
limitation :-)

7zip and WinRAR uses the same algorithm than ZipFile._encodeFilename(): try 
cp437 or use UTF-8. Eg. if a filename contains ∞ (U+221E), it is encoded to 
UTF-8.

WinZIP encodes all filenames to cp437: ∞ (U+221E) is replaced by 8 (U+0038), ☺ 
(U+263A) is replaced by... U+0001 !

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[issue10968] Timer class inheritance issue

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

I can't reproduce the error. Do you have a script that shows the issue?
What is the complete traceback?

--
nosy: +amaury.forgeotdarc

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[issue10968] Timer class inheritance issue

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

Ah, got it. It's about threading.Timer, which looks like a class, but is 
actually a function.

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[issue10972] zipfile: add unicode option to the choose filename encoding

[STINNER Victor]

New submission from STINNER Victor :

ZipInfo._encodeFilename() tries cp437 encoding or use UTF-8. It is not possible 
to decide the encoding.

To workaround #10955 (bootstrap issue with python32.zip), it would be nice to 
be able to create a ZIP file using only UTF-8 filenames.

Attached patch adds unicode parameter to ZipFile.write(), ZipFile.writestr() 
and ZipInfo constructor.

--
components: Library (Lib), Unicode
files: zipfile_unicode.patch
keywords: patch
messages: 126724
nosy: haypo
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: zipfile: add unicode option to the choose filename encoding
versions: Python 3.2, Python 3.3
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file20478/zipfile_unicode.patch

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[issue10972] zipfile: add unicode option to the choose filename encoding

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

Oh, this patch fixes also a bug: ZipFile._RealGetContents() doesn't keep the 
unicode flag, so open a ZIP file and then write it somewhere else may change 
the unicode flag if unicode flag was set but the filename is also encodable to 
UTF-8 (eg. ASCII filename).

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

#10972 has a patch for zipfile to set the filename encoding if a ZipInfo object 
(to force the encoding to UTF-8).

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[issue10972] zipfile: add unicode option to the choose filename encoding

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

7zip and WinRAR uses the same algorithm than ZipFile._encodeFilename(): try 
cp437 or use UTF-8. Eg. if a filename contains ∞ (U+221E), it is encoded to 
UTF-8.

WinZIP encodes all filenames to cp437: ∞ (U+221E) is replaced by 8 (U+0038), ☺ 
(U+263A) is replaced by... U+0001!

7zip, WinRAR and WinZIP are able to decode UTF-8 filenames (handle correctly 
the unicode flag).

--
nosy: +alanmcintyre

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[STINNER Victor]

Changes by STINNER Victor :


--
title: zipfile: add unicode option to the choose filename encoding -> zipfile: 
add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

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[issue10968] Timer class inheritance issue

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

It seems to be by design: from the documentation:
http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/threading.html
"Timer is a subclass of Thread", and a Thread subclass should "only override 
the __init__() and run() methods".

What are you trying to do here? overriding run() is probably wrong; and 
overriding __init__ is better done by passing the correct parameters to 
threading.Timer().

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[issue10042] total_ordering stack overflow

[Lennart Regebro]

Lennart Regebro  added the comment:

This also affects Python 2.7, where it hasn't been fixed. Maybe reopen it?

--
nosy: +lregebro

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[issue10968] Timer class inheritance issue

[Benjamin VENELLE]

Benjamin VENELLE  added the comment:

Yes that's it. I Should precise it. I've taken a screenshot from my python's 
interpreter to spot it.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file20479/issue10968.png

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

What kind of problem are you trying to solve?

--
nosy: +pitrou

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[issue10968] Timer should be a class so that it can be derived

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

AFAIK this is by design. Not that I agree with this decision anyway.

--
assignee: collinwinter -> 
nosy: +pitrou
title: Timer class inheritance issue -> Timer should be a class so that it can 
be derived
type: behavior -> feature request
versions: +Python 3.3 -Python 3.1

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

On Linux, the "zip" command line program (InfoZIP zip program) only sets the 
unicode flag if it is able to set the locale to "en_US.UTF-8". It can do 
better: check if the locale encoding is UTF-8, and only "en_US.UTF-8" locale if 
the encoding was not UTF-8.

The conclusion is today, it is very hard to create archives using only UTF-8 
names (unicode flag set): only the zip program can do that on Linux.

With issue10955.patch (#10972): py2app and py2exe will only support ASCII 
filenames, but at least it fixes this issue :-)

With issue10955.patch + zipfile_unicode.patch (#10972): py2app will support 
non-ASCII filenames, but py2exe will only support ASCII filenames.

We can fix the bootstrap issue today, and improve zipfile later to support 
non-ASCII filenames. Anyway, Python 3.2 doesn't support non-ASCII filenames on 
Windows (#3080), and I plan to fix this in Python 3.3.

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> What kind of problem are you trying to solve?

Support non-ASCII filenames in python32.zip (#10955): at bootstrap, Python 3.2 
can only use UTF-8 codec (not cp437).

But I suppose also that forcing the encoding to UTF-8 gives a better Unicode 
support (when you decompress the archive).

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

> Support non-ASCII filenames in python32.zip (#10955): at bootstrap,
> Python 3.2 can only use UTF-8 codec (not cp437).
> 
> But I suppose also that forcing the encoding to UTF-8 gives a better
> Unicode support (when you decompress the archive).

The question is, rather, why you need an external flag for that.

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

Patch version 2: display a more useful error message:

$ python
Fatal Python error: Py_Initialize: Unable to get the locale encoding
NotImplementedError: bootstrap issue: python32.zip contains non-ASCII filenames 
without the unicode flag
Aborted

Instead of (message without the patch):

$ python
Fatal Python error: Py_Initialize: Unable to get the locale encoding
LookupError: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding
Aborted

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file20480/issue10955-2.patch

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

Victor's second patch looks good to me. Georg, is this a release blocker?

--
nosy: +pitrou
stage: unit test needed -> patch review

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[issue10936] Simple CSS fix for left margin at docs.python.org

[Fred L. Drake, Jr.]

Fred L. Drake, Jr.  added the comment:

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 2:58 AM, Christopher Dunn
 wrote:
> For narrow-width screens, there really shouldn't be a sidebar. Maybe a 
> dynamic element would be better.

Right.  I'd be in favor of removing the sidebar and having a pop-out
ToC navigator of some sort.  Most of the time, most of us are looking
at the content, not at how to navigate the content.  Spending so much
screen real-estate on navigation is painful.  Large, hi-res screens
just aren't *that* cheap yet.

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[issue10968] threading.Timer should be a class so that it can be derived

[Eric Smith]

Changes by Eric Smith :


--
nosy: +eric.smith
title: Timer should be a class so that it can be derived -> threading.Timer 
should be a class so that it can be derived

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[Nestor Aguilera]

New submission from Nestor Aguilera :

When trying to type 'ñ' in idle 3.2 (no problem in terminal), python "quits 
unexpectedly" when started from terminal:

$ idle3
2011-01-21 11:21:55.883 Python[5228:a07] setCanCycle: is deprecated.  Please 
use setCollectionBehavior instead
2011-01-21 11:21:55.890 Python[5228:a07] setCanCycle: is deprecated.  Please 
use setCollectionBehavior instead
2011-01-21 11:21:55.891 Python[5228:a07] setCanCycle: is deprecated.  Please 
use setCollectionBehavior instead
2011-01-21 11:22:08.777 Python[5228:a07] An uncaught exception was raised
2011-01-21 11:22:08.779 Python[5228:a07] *** -[NSCFString characterAtIndex:]: 
Range or index out of bounds
2011-01-21 11:22:08.781 Python[5228:a07] *** Terminating app due to uncaught 
exception 'NSRangeException', reason: '*** -[NSCFString characterAtIndex:]: 
Range or index out of bounds'
*** Call stack at first throw:
(
0   CoreFoundation  0x7fff829c47b4 
__exceptionPreprocess + 180
1   libobjc.A.dylib 0x7fff816300f3 
objc_exception_throw + 45
2   CoreFoundation  0x7fff829c45d7 
+[NSException raise:format:arguments:] + 103
3   CoreFoundation  0x7fff829c4564 
+[NSException raise:format:] + 148
4   Foundation  0x7fff839c15e1 -[NSCFString 
characterAtIndex:] + 97
5   Tk  0x0001012ba035 
-[TKApplication(TKKeyEvent) tkProcessKeyEvent:] + 664
6   Tk  0x0001012c0b38 
TkMacOSXEventsCheckProc + 349
7   Tcl 0x000101175667 
Tcl_DoOneEvent + 316
8   _tkinter.so 0x00010077d801 
Tkapp_MainLoop + 177
9   Python  0x0001000b2b62 
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 30530
10  Python  0x0001000b34ca 
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 1770
11  Python  0x0001000b19e3 
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26051
12  Python  0x0001000b1bfd 
PyEval_EvalFrameEx + 26589
13  Python  0x0001000b34ca 
PyEval_EvalCodeEx + 1770
14  Python  0x0001000b37df 
PyEval_EvalCode + 63
15  Python  0x0001000da19b 
PyRun_FileExFlags + 187
16  Python  0x0001000da469 
PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags + 521
17  Python  0x0001000ef253 Py_Main + 
3059
18  Python  0x00010e5f 0x0 + 
4294970975
19  Python  0x00010d04 0x0 + 
4294970628
)
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'NSException'
Abort trap
 
#--
The welcome in idle 3.2 is:

Python 3.2rc1 (r32rc1:88040, Jan 15 2011, 13:31:22) 
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5664)] on darwin
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.

#--
I cannot start IDLE by double-clicking its icon in the Finder.

Best,

Néstor Aguilera

--
components: IDLE
messages: 126739
nosy: naguilera
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6
type: crash
versions: Python 3.2

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Ronald Oussoren]

Ronald Oussoren  added the comment:

The python32.zip file generated by py2app contains both files from the stdlib 
and application files.  I cannot avoid haveing non-ascii filenames when a 
python package contains data files that have such names.

The patch in Issue10972 would be nice to have, that way py2app can enforce that 
the zipfile uses UTF-8 names.

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[STINNER Victor]

Changes by STINNER Victor :


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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

> The python32.zip file generated by py2app contains both files from the
> stdlib and application files.  I cannot avoid haveing non-ascii
> filenames when a python package contains data files that have such
> names.

I don't think this is a problem. We are only talking about
bootstrap-time importing of encodings modules. Once the encodings
machinery is initialized, importing non-ascii files should work fine.

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[Antoine Pitrou]

Changes by Antoine Pitrou :


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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

> We are only talking about bootstrap-time importing of encodings modules.
Again, the whole zip central directory is loaded on first import. If the zip 
file contains non-ascii filenames, nothing can be imported.

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

> Again, the whole zip central directory is loaded on first import. If
> the zip file contains non-ascii filenames, nothing can be imported.

Does it have to be decoded eagerly, though?

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[issue10955] Possible regression with stdlib in zipfile

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> I cannot avoid haveing non-ascii filenames when a python package
> contains data files that have such names.

Are "data files" Python modules (.py files)? Or can it be anything?

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> The question is, rather, why you need an external flag for that.

Because I don't want to change the default encoding. I am not sure that all 
applications support UTF-8 encodings.

But if you control your environment, force UTF-8 encoding should improve your 
Unicode support.

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

> > The question is, rather, why you need an external flag for that.
> 
> Because I don't want to change the default encoding. I am not sure
> that all applications support UTF-8 encodings.

If this is a ZIP standard flag, why should we care about applications
which don't support it? Should we add other flags to disable other
features out of fear that other applications might not support them
either?

> But if you control your environment, force UTF-8 encoding should
> improve your Unicode support.

How is a random user supposed to know if their tools support UTF-8
encoding? It's not like everyone is an expert in ZIP files. This is the
kind of situation where asking the user to make a choice is more
confusing than helpful. When adding the flag, not only you complicate
the API, but you have to support this flag for the rest of your life
(well, almost :-)).

We could instead use utf-8 by default for all non-ascii filenames (and
*perhaps* have a separate force_cp437 flag, but default it to False).

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[Antoine Pitrou]

Changes by Antoine Pitrou :


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[issue10947] imaplib: Internaldate2tuple and ParseFlags require (and latter returns) bytes arrays; should allow/return str

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

Well, we recently added support for parsing binary data streams to the email 
module (or added back, if you are looking at it from a python2 perspective), 
exactly because "in the wild" headers are not always RFC compliant ASCII, and 
because bodies often are RFC *compliant* 8bit.  So yes, the appropriate type 
for imaplib to be returning is bytes, and the application has to figure out how 
to decode it to string using the information contained internally in the email 
message.  The email package is the obvious way to do this, and if there are 
helper routines that an imaplib programmer would want in order to make that job 
easier, those would be very legitimate feature requests (but most of what one 
needs should already be there; specifically decode_header and friends, although 
there's an outstanding feature request for a convenience wrapper around that).

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[issue8713] multiprocessing needs option to eschew fork() under Linux

[dholth]

dholth  added the comment:

+1

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[issue10935] wsgiref.handlers.BaseHandler and subclasses of str

[Phillip J. Eby]

Phillip J. Eby  added the comment:

Implicit knowledge in your own head about what might or might not be a good 
idea to program is not the same thing as a specification.  "type(x) is str" is 
a good specification in this context, while "string subclasses, but only if 
they're really str" does not.

And the reason why that is, is because the first specification allows server 
implementers to say, "your type is not str, so you are not conformant; go fix 
your code."   The second "specification" is just an invitation to (number of 
server implementations)*(number of string implementations) arguments about what 
conformance is.

That makes the latter an objectively worse specification than the first, even 
if EVERYONE would prefer to be able to use their own string type.  Practicality 
beats purity, and explicit is better than implicit.  These principles are 
doubly true where interop protocol definitions are concerned.

To put it another way, the greater the social separation between parties, the 
more explicit and specific a contract between those two parties has to be in 
order to co-ordinate their actions, because they can't rely on having the same 
operating assumptions as the other party.  This situation is a terrific example 
of that principle in action.  ;-)

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[issue8713] multiprocessing needs option to eschew fork() under Linux

[Antoine Pitrou]

Changes by Antoine Pitrou :


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nosy: +asksol
stage:  -> needs patch
versions: +Python 3.3 -Python 3.2

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[issue10947] imaplib: Internaldate2tuple and ParseFlags require (and latter returns) bytes arrays; should allow/return str

[Joe Peterson]

Joe Peterson  added the comment:

Yep, I agree, and in light of this, we should probably just close this issue 
and work toward reviewing/improving imaplib in the ways you are suggesting.

As I migrate my imap stuff more to Python3, I'll see if I run into any problems 
with using bytes throughout (beyond what is addressed in issue 10939).

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[issue10935] wsgiref.handlers.BaseHandler and subclasses of str

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

> Implicit knowledge in your own head about what might or might not be a
> good idea to program is not the same thing as a specification.
> "type(x) is str" is a good specification in this context, while
> "string subclasses, but only if they're really str" does not.
> 
> And the reason why that is, is because the first specification allows
> server implementers to say, "your type is not str, so you are not
> conformant; go fix your code."   The second "specification" is just an
> invitation to (number of server implementations)*(number of string
> implementations) arguments about what conformance is.

You might argue about this all the way you want, but let me repeat it:
the interpreter already, implicitly, uses the "second specification" in
many of its internal routines (e.g. C implementations of stdlib
functions and types). Why do you think what is fine for the interpreter
and its stdlib is not fine for WSGI?

> Practicality beats purity, and explicit is better than implicit. 

And, ironically, you are arguing for a pure specification at the expense
of practicality. As for explicit/implicit, it isn't involved here: an
isinstance() test is as explicit as a type() equality test.

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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan  added the comment:

Oops, missed that post - that was indeed the problem. With that fixed, tests 
are all good on this system. I'll give the patch a look anyway, but I'm going 
to have trouble diagnosing things that don't fail on my development machine.

As far as the test_reprlib failure goes, I seem to recall addressing a similar 
problem elsewhere in the standard lib by replace a "%r" code with "'%s'" to get 
the single quotes without the backslash escaping. A similar change should 
probably do the trick here.

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

No problem on Linux (Debian Sid): I tried "ŁñØ=1" in IDLE interpreter (written 
using the compose key).

It looks like the bug is specific to Mac OS X and comes from Tk directly:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2907388&group_id=12997&atid=112997
"(...)  this crash happens for [all] composite characters. (...) the crash is 
caused by the "sticky" modifier key and not by the accented character itself."

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> I cannot start IDLE by double-clicking its icon in the Finder.

You may open a new issue for this proble.

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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

> but I'm going to have trouble diagnosing things that don't fail 
> on my development machine.

On Windows, try any character not encodable into your ANSI code page (eg. Ł 
with cp1252) in the module path and non-ASCII characters in the module name.

On Mac OS X, sorry, it already works.

On other OSes, set the locale to something else than UTF-8 (and than ASCII 
because ASCII is not very interesting) and try non-ASCII module names. The 
patch includes issue3080.py: set the locale to fr_FR.iso88591 to have 
ISO-8859-1 as locale encoding and try to load a module called 'issue3080\xE4'. 
U+00E4 is encoded to b'\xE4' in ISO-8859-1 and b'\xC3\xA4' to UTF-8.

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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

I tried issue3080-5.patch. The whole test suite pass on Windows. It pass also 
on Linux with "-Wd -Werror -R 3:3:" (except #10971 which is unrelated to this 
issue).

I should maybe add some unit tests for non-ASCII module paths and non-ASCII 
module names :-)

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[issue8754] ImportError: quote bad module name in message

[STINNER Victor]

STINNER Victor  added the comment:

My patch for #3080 uses repr() to format module name in all error messages.

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

(Regarding the second problem: if IDLE does not launch when you double-click on 
it, please check for and report any error messages from /var/log/system.log at 
the time. You can use /Applications/Utilities/Console.app to view system.log.)

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[issue10972] zipfile: add "unicode" option to the force the filename encoding to UTF-8

[Amaury Forgeot d'Arc]

Amaury Forgeot d'Arc  added the comment:

This looks similar to issue10614

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[issue3080] Full unicode import system

[Nick Coghlan]

Nick Coghlan  added the comment:

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 3:08 AM, STINNER Victor  wrote:
> I should maybe add some unit tests for non-ASCII module paths and non-ASCII 
> module names :-)

Indeed. There are a few tests in test_runpy that could be adapted to
that task fairly easily (it creates the test packages at run time in a
temporary directory, so copying that to make a non-ASCII path and
module name test should be too difficult).

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[issue10935] wsgiref.handlers.BaseHandler and subclasses of str

[Phillip J. Eby]

Phillip J. Eby  added the comment:

1. WSGI is a *Python* spec, not a *CPython* spec, so CPython implementation 
details have little bearing on how the spec should work.

Most non-CPython implementations have a native string type optimized for their 
runtime or VM (i.e. Jython and IronPython), and thus have *different* 
implementation-dependent details of what constitutes a "native" string, other 
than that it has type 'str' as seen by Python code.  (See my previous point 
about people bringing these sorts of implicit assumptions to the table!)

(Also, as you may or may not be aware, WSGI supports Python 2.1, mainly for 
Jython's sake at the time, and in Python 2.1 there was *no such thing* as a 
subclass of 'str' to begin with.)

2. The specific practical goal of WSGI is interoperability, *not* programmer 
convenience.  (Says so right in the PEP.)

3. You are free to patch wsgiref's Headers class to *accept* non-str values (as 
long as they are converted to conforming strings in the process) and to make 
any proposals you like for future versions of WSGI or another interop protocol 
via the Web-SIG, so this entire discussion has been moot for some time now.

4. The explicit-vs-implicit is about the contract defined in the spec (making 
explicit what, precisely, is required of both parties), not the type test.

5. Since this discussion is moot (see point 3), we'll have to agree to disagree 
here.  Whether you (or I!) like what the spec says is not what matters: wsgiref 
is the *reference library* for the specification, and therefore must conform to 
the actual spec, not what any of us would like the spec to be.

Heck, I tried to add some *much* more minor amendments to PEP 333 than this 
about three or four months ago, and Guido said he'd reject the whole PEP if I 
tried!  That's why we have PEP  instead of a slightly-amended PEP 333.  
This particular bikeshed was painted six years ago, so let's get on with the 
actual bicycling already.

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[issue10973] 'ñ' not working with IDLE 3.2rc1 - OSX 10.6.6

[Nestor Aguilera]

Nestor Aguilera  added the comment:

Thanks Victor and Ned, I'll send a report on the second issue as well (I 
thought it was known).

Néstor Aguilera

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[issue10968] threading.Timer should be a class so that it can be derived

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

Adding Guido, who checked the module in, to nosy.

Guido: Could you tell us whether the fake classes in threading.py should stay 
as is or can be fixed?  The whole _Verbose business and Thing/_Thing 
indirection seem a bit outdated and unneeded.

--
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[issue10974] IDLE 3.2 not loading on double-click in Finder, OSX 10.6

[Nestor Aguilera]

New submission from Nestor Aguilera :

Here is the report from "Console" (date/time removed):

[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]Traceback (most recent call last):
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File "/Applications/Python 
3.2/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idlemain.py", line 73, in 
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]main()
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/idlelib/PyShell.py",
 line 1388, in main
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]shell = flist.open_shell()
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/idlelib/PyShell.py",
 line 277, in open_shell
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]self.pyshell = PyShell(self)
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/idlelib/PyShell.py",
 line 813, in __init__
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]OutputWindow.__init__(self, flist, 
None, None)
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/idlelib/OutputWindow.py",
 line 16, in __init__
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]EditorWindow.__init__(self, *args)
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/idlelib/EditorWindow.py",
 line 267, in __init__
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]self.update_recent_files_list()
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/idlelib/EditorWindow.py",
 line 777, in update_recent_files_list
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]rf_list = rf_list_file.readlines()
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]  File 
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/encodings/ascii.py",
 line 26, in decode
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]return codecs.ascii_decode(input, 
self.errors)[0]
[0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't 
decode byte 0xcc in position 55: ordinal not in range(128)
com.apple.launchd.peruser.501[168]  ([0x0-0x1a11a1].org.python.IDLE[5541]) 
Exited with exit code: 1

Thanks,

Néstor Aguilera

--
components: IDLE
messages: 126764
nosy: naguilera
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: IDLE 3.2 not loading on double-click in Finder, OSX 10.6
type: crash
versions: Python 3.2

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[issue10975] #10961: Pydoc touchups in new 3.2 Web server (issue4090042)

[Éric Araujo]

New submission from Éric Araujo :

Some comments.  Haven’t tested the patch yet.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/diff/1/Lib/pydoc.py
File Lib/pydoc.py (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/diff/1/Lib/pydoc.py#newcode2507
Lib/pydoc.py:2507: 
Does this work fine with common Web browsers, including not-most-recent
versions, and various resolutions?  (“fine” being defined as “not worse
than before the patch”)

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/diff/1/Lib/pydoc.py#newcode2591
Lib/pydoc.py:2591: return '%s' % (name,
name)
I see no reason for polluting the key value with “.html”

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/diff/1/Lib/pydoc.py#newcode2713
Lib/pydoc.py:2713: raise TypeError('unknown content type %r' % ([url,
content_type]))
You can remove the extraneous parens around the list.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/diff/1/Lib/test/test_pydoc.py
File Lib/test/test_pydoc.py (right):

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/diff/1/Lib/test/test_pydoc.py#newcode431
Lib/test/test_pydoc.py:431: ("", "PyDoc: Index of Modules"),
I’m not sure “PyDoc” is better than “Python”.  What about “Python Doc”?
Very clear and still short.

http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042/

--
messages: 126765
nosy: eric.araujo
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: #10961: Pydoc touchups in new 3.2 Web server (issue4090042)

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[issue10975] #10961: Pydoc touchups in new 3.2 Web server (issue4090042)

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

One day, email from rietveld will go to the right roundup report.

--
resolution:  -> invalid
stage:  -> committed/rejected
status: open -> closed

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[issue10961] Pydoc touchups in new browser for 3.2

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

Some comments on http://codereview.appspot.com/4090042

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[issue9723] pipes.quote() needs to be documented

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

Why do you want to move quote from pipes to shlex?  The function is available, 
the issue here is lack of documentation.

--
stage:  -> unit test needed
type: feature request -> 

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[issue10936] Simple CSS fix for left margin at docs.python.org

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

Also, laptops and handheld devices have a limited screen size.

-1 on a pop-up, for obvious usability reasons.

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nosy: +eric.araujo

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[issue9723] pipes.quote() needs to be documented

[Éric Araujo]

Changes by Éric Araujo :


--
stage: unit test needed -> needs patch

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[issue10936] Simple CSS fix for left margin at docs.python.org

[Christopher Dunn]

Christopher Dunn  added the comment:

@eric.araujo:

Not a 'pop-up', that you would have to click to close. But something dynamic, 
based on mouse location.

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[issue10968] threading.Timer should be a class so that it can be derived

[Guido van Rossum]

Guido van Rossum  added the comment:

IIRC:

The design started out this way because it predates new-style classes. When 
this was put in one couldn't subclass extension types, and there were 
plans/hopes to replace some of the lock types with platform-specific built-in 
versions on some platforms.

Since it is now possible to write subclassable extension types the Thing/_Thing 
design is no longer needed.

I'm not sure about the _Verbose hacks, if it is deemed not useful I'm fine with 
letting it go.

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[issue10976] json.loads() throws TypeError on bytes object

[hhas]

New submission from hhas :

json.loads() accepts strings but errors on bytes objects. Documentation and API 
indicate that both should work. Review of json/__init__.py code shows that the 
loads() function's 'encoding' arg is ignored and no decoding takes place before 
the object is passed to JSONDecoder.decode()

Tested on Python 3.1.2 and Python 3.2rc1; fails on both. 

Example:

#

#!/usr/local/bin/python3.2

import json

print(json.loads('123'))
# 123

print(json.loads(b'123'))
# 
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/json/decoder.py:325:
  
#   TypeError: can't use a string pattern on a bytes-like object

print(json.loads(b'123', encoding='utf-8'))
# 
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.1/lib/python3.1/json/decoder.py:325:
  
#   TypeError: can't use a string pattern on a bytes-like object

#

Patch attached.

--
components: Library (Lib)
files: json.diff
keywords: patch
messages: 126772
nosy: hhas
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: json.loads() throws TypeError on bytes object
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.1, Python 3.2
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file20481/json.diff

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[issue10948] Trouble with dir_util created dir cache

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

> So It is better to define what a "public function" is.
That is no easy task.  See #10894 for a general discussion.  For the particular 
case of distutils, there is no distinction between internal helpers that we 
should be free to change and public functions provided to third-party code.  
That’s one of the reasons we had to fork under a new name to have a chance to 
clean things up (i.e. make nearly everything private).

> If new people get involved in distutils development they will need to
> read all the code, line by line and every comment, because the old
> developers decided not to document the inner workings of its functions.
A lot of people have bee learning distutils internals in recent years: Tarek, 
the current maintainer; hackers from Montreal; Google Summer of Code students 
like me.  So it is possible to get involved with distutils, starting with one 
area (network code, or versions and dependencies, or commands, or 
compilers...).  That said, I agree the doc is very lacking, and improving it is 
one of my big goals for distutils2 in Python 3.3.  (I will give priority to 
important user-facing functions and classes over helpers like mkpath, however.)

> Well, I know nothing about this. However, if you tell me that
> distutils2 will replace distutils, I may agree with you and distutils
> just needs to be deprecated. Otherwise, I keep my opinion.
distutils is frozen and only gets bug fixes; distutils2 is a fork where we can 
break compatibility to fix the design and behavior.  More information on 
http://tarekziade.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/the-fate-of-distutils-pycon-summit-packaging-sprint-detailed-report/

I am now closing this issue.  If I have misunderstood your last message and 
you’re not satisfied with that, please reopen.  Thanks again for your report, 
and don’t hesitate to report any bug you may find in the future.

--
resolution:  -> works for me
stage:  -> committed/rejected
status: open -> closed

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[issue10936] Simple CSS fix for left margin at docs.python.org

[Christopher Dunn]

Christopher Dunn  added the comment:

I was just trying to help fix the CSS, and I think I've done that.

If we're reconsidering the behavior of the nav sidebar, then I'd like to point 
out that if you're far down the page, the sidebar is blank to your right. From 
a usability point of view, it's already broken. It was a neat idea, but a ToC 
for the page would serve the purpose better.

My monitor is quite large, and rotated 90 degrees, so it's narrow and tall. A 
web-page can be infinitely long, but its practical width is limited to the 
user's screen, which is different for every user. That's why HTML was designed 
the way it is, with auto-word-wrap.

When you have a bunch of stuff that you want to fit within a window, a sidebar 
makes more sense. For Python docs, I'd vote to drop it altogether, as 
attractive-looking as it is.

But if you really want it, give it its own vertical scrollbar, so that a 
relevant portion is always visible. Then people can talk about dynamic controls.

That's just my opinion. I created this bug because, when I zoon, the sidebar 
consumes most of my screen with no visible text. It's such a huge problem that 
I was afraid someone had already submitted this.

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[issue10822] test_getgroups failure under Solaris

[Jesús Cea Avión]

Jesús Cea Avión  added the comment:

Antoine, can you confirm that the problem is solved, and mark this issue as 
closed/fixed?.

Thanks.

--
nosy:  -rosslagerwall
resolution: fixed -> 
stage: committed/rejected -> needs patch
status: closed -> open

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[issue10935] wsgiref.handlers.BaseHandler and subclasses of str

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

> 4. The explicit-vs-implicit is about the contract defined in the spec (making 
> explicit what, precisely, is required of both parties), not the type test.

Perhaps a clarification in the () spec that 'type str' means "type(s) is 
str" would be in order, then, since this discussion makes it clear that "type 
str" in English can also mean "isinstance(s, str)".

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[issue10822] test_getgroups failure under Solaris

[Jesús Cea Avión]

Jesús Cea Avión  added the comment:

Sorry, Firefox insists in cache-ing the tracker, with bad results.

I beg your pardon.

--
nosy: +rosslagerwall
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: needs patch -> committed/rejected
status: open -> closed

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[issue10966] eliminate use of ImportError implicitly representing TestSkipped

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

How is this different from issue 2409?

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[issue10966] eliminate use of ImportError implicitly representing TestSkipped

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

On second reading I see one way it is different: you suggest to move the list 
of expected skips out of regrtest.  So, are you suggesting, essentially, that 
support.import_module be replaced by an optional_import that takes arguments to 
indicate on which platforms the skip is expected?

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[issue10967] move regrtest over to using more unittest infrastructure

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

I think we have already been moving in this director for quite some time.  Past 
policy is to only change things when we are working on that area of code 
anyway.  If someone wants to make some specific proposals to simplify regrtest 
by doing a wholesale move of test code away from a regrtest supported 
infrastructure to a unittest supported infrastructure, I think that's worth 
considering, but I think it should be done bit by bit with specific proposals 
to replace specific regrtest features.

Extending regrtest to support unittest test discovery directly is also a 
worthwhile specific proposal.

Do you intend this issue to be an "index issue" that links to issues with 
specific proposals?

(Note: see also the closely related issue 8273).

--
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[issue10967] move regrtest over to using more unittest infrastructure

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

I think we have already been moving in this direction for quite some time.  
Past policy is to only change things when we are working on that area of code 
anyway.  If someone wants to make some specific proposals to simplify regrtest 
by doing a wholesale move of test code away from a regrtest supported 
infrastructure to a unittest supported infrastructure, I think that's worth 
considering, but I think it should be done bit by bit with specific proposals 
to replace specific regrtest features.

Extending regrtest to support unittest test discovery directly is also a 
worthwhile specific proposal.

Do you intend this issue to be an "index issue" that links to issues with 
specific proposals?

(Note: see also the closely related issue 8273).

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[issue10967] move regrtest over to using more unittest infrastructure

[R. David Murray]

Changes by R. David Murray :


--
Removed message: http://bugs.python.org/msg126780

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[issue10976] json.loads() throws TypeError on bytes object

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

Hmm.  According to issue 4136, all bytes support was supposed to have been 
removed.

--
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[issue10966] eliminate use of ImportError implicitly representing TestSkipped

[Brett Cannon]

Brett Cannon  added the comment:

Yes. So for _winreg (if we even have tests) it would be skipped on all OSs 
other than Windows, on on Windows it would be a test failure if it didn't work 
as it is expected to exist.

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[issue10967] move regrtest over to using more unittest infrastructure

[Brett Cannon]

Brett Cannon  added the comment:

Yes, I somewhat view this as an index issue. I don't expect a wholesale move 
but a more step-by-step move.

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[issue3831] Multiprocessing: Expose underlying pipe in queues

[Forest Wilkinson]

Changes by Forest Wilkinson :


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nosy: +forest

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[issue10976] json.loads() throws TypeError on bytes object

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

Indeed, the documentation (and function docstring) needs fixing instead. It's a 
pity we didn't remove the useless `encoding` parameter.

--
assignee:  -> docs@python
components: +Documentation -Library (Lib)
nosy: +docs@python

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[issue10976] json.loads() throws TypeError on bytes object

[Éric Araujo]

Éric Araujo  added the comment:

Georg: Is it still time to deprecate the encoding parameter in 3.2?

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[issue10042] total_ordering stack overflow

[Éric Araujo]

Changes by Éric Araujo :


--
status: closed -> open
versions: +Python 2.7

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[issue10966] eliminate use of ImportError implicitly representing TestSkipped

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

Ah, I see what you are getting at now.  I was confused by the "raise SkipTest 
directly" part, since the test suite currently does raise SkipTest instead of 
ImportError.  So the key change here is to make the test show as a *failure* on 
those platforms where it is currently reported as an unexpected skip.  We can 
then eliminate the whole "these skips are expected" bit from regrtest.  That 
would be a very nice cleanup.

I'm going to mark this as easy, since it is basically a mechanical 
transformation from the expected skip list in regrtest to calls to a fairly 
simple new test.support function, and then ripping the obsolete code out of 
regrtest.  Tedious, but doable in a day.

--
keywords: +easy

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[issue10976] json.loads() throws TypeError on bytes object

[Antoine Pitrou]

Antoine Pitrou  added the comment:

I've committed a doc fix in r88137.

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[issue10943] abitype: Need better support to port C extension modules to the stable C API

[R. David Murray]

Changes by R. David Murray :


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nosy: +loewis

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[issue10949] logging.RotatingFileHandler not robust enough

[R. David Murray]

Changes by R. David Murray :


--
nosy: +vinay.sajip

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[issue10960] os.stat() does not mention that it follow symlinks by default

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray  added the comment:

I almost closed this as invalid, since the name is, after all 'os.stat' and the 
docs clearly say that it calls the 'stat' system call.  However, I see that our 
docs do not contain the more explicit language used by the 'stat' system call 
docs: "stats the file pointed to by path".  Although even that isn't crystal 
clear unless you also read the definition of 'lstat' right below it.  If you 
read our docs for lstat it does become clear even as things stand, but lstat 
isn't right below stat in our docs.

So on reflection I think the docs could use improvement in this area.

--
nosy: +r.david.murray
stage:  -> needs patch

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[issue10909] thread hang, possibly related to print

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

What happens if you run your program without IDLE? 
(either with right-click and run or run from Command Prompt window?) 

I would not be surprised if your problems go away. IDLE runs a saved file in a 
separate pythonw process. Printing (or writing) to stdout requires sending 
output back to the IDLE process. I can imagine that doing that from 2 
subthreads could lead to conflicts.

If the problems do go away, then we should probably close this as won't fix. 
IDLE is a development environment, not a production running environment

--
nosy: +terry.reedy

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