Re: [PLUG] Bloat

[Sujeet Ghanvat]

Hi Aditya,Nice observation. It can be explained with slightly
modified Parkinson's law  :

"Data expands to fill the space available for storage"

Its going to happen more in future. Paul Graham has nicely talked about it
in his article Hundred-Year Language. 
Programmers are going to waste the memory and the extra cycles the faster
hardware is going to give us. The culture of hacker days (70-80's and even
early 90's) are gone. No one cares about memory usage anymore. Programmers
are advised not to care as it sounds like premature optimization. Only the
people who write javascript for website seem to worry about size of the
program. But with expanding  bandwidth it will matter less and less.

I really don't think programs are going to be written to take small space
and cycles. The programs are going to expand to whatever space and power is
available. Unless we write our own and care about what we do.

-Sujeet G
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Re: [PLUG] Bloat

[Kapil Kaisare]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Aditya Godbole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I just got thinking for a moment today about the amount of memory that
> our computer systems today use. Of course, if you are a 'computer
> scientist' you can safely ignore this and say you have infinite
> memory.
> Anyway, for the other mortals, I remember I had a P1 with 16 MB RAM
> and 32 MB swap space. I could run X, a window manager like afterstep,
> a mail program like sylpheed, xchat, xmms, emacs and gcc at the same
> time without any issues. The computer would start thrashing sometimes,
> but it was few and far between. The point is 48 MB memory was quite
> sufficient.
> I had a look at my memory usage today and with a very minimal
> configuration it goes to 250 MB. Firefox takes 75 MB of resident
> memory! Pidgin takes about 30 MB. Konsole takes about 20 MB. Is it
> that all the libs have become bloated? Is it the apps themselves? When
> exactly did all of us become computer scientists? :)
>
> -aditya


Greetings.

Your system need not be as bloated as you say it is.

I run an XUbuntu setup, having replaced XFCE with Xmonad. I use mc as my
file manager, vim for most editing tasks, Firefox 3 for webwork, and a few
other programs.

You can imagine how quickly it runs on my 1GB DDR SDRAM, AMD 2000XP+ system.
:)

We choose our programs well. We differentiate between programs that are user
friendly and those that are idiot friendly.

Most of us, anyway.

>
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Re: [PLUG] Bloat

[Shridhar Daithankar]

On Wednesday 01 October 2008 10:15:46 Aditya Godbole wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Shridhar Daithankar
> > No. Thing is the memory usage varies with amount of installed RAM, at
> > least in linux. If you have same installation on a 512MB RAM and 128 MB
> > RAM machine and start identical sets of program, the usage won't be
> > identical.
>
> Quite remarkable. How does this happen? Any pointers to technical details?

This is down to caching. I don't have details offhand but I will dig it up and 
post. But I have observed this very frequently.

-- 
 Shridhar

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Re: [PLUG] Bloat

[Rahul Sundaram]

Aditya Godbole wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Shridhar Daithankar
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Monday 29 September 2008 20:36:17 Aditya Godbole wrote:
>>
>> No. Thing is the memory usage varies with amount of installed RAM, at least 
>> in
>> linux. If you have same installation on a 512MB RAM and 128 MB RAM machine 
>> and
>> start identical sets of program, the usage won't be identical.
>>
> 
> Quite remarkable. How does this happen? Any pointers to technical details?

Nothing remarkable about it. If you have additional memory and it is not 
being used to a optimum level, it is just wasted resources. Instead 
Linux uses it for caching. So if you are merely checking memory usage 
without taking cache into consideration, you would get misleading 
information.

http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/vm/

Rahul

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[PLUG] Confirmation: PLUG meeting for October 2008 is scheduled on Saturday 4th October 2008, 4 pm @ SICSR

[Sudhanwa Jogalekar]

Hi,

PLUG meeting for October 2008 is scheduled on Saturday 4th October
2008, 4 pm @ SICSR

These are the details:
Location: SICSR, Atur Centre, Model Colony.
Room No 704. 7th floor ( room no. may change )
Time: 4 pm

Agenda:
Updates and discussions about the software freedom day event which was
held on September 21.

Please read blog by Shirish Agarwal  here:
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/software-freedom-day-at-bhaskacharya-prathisthana/

and check out the photos on this URL posted by Amit Karpe
http://picasaweb.google.com/swateekarpe/SoftwareFreedomDay#


Discussions about participating in CMDA IT Expo scheduled on 4-8 Dec 2008.

If anyone wants to give any technical (or other) talk,  please let me know.

You can book CD/DVDs and  collect them after the meeting.

We will be accepting formal membership at the meeting. CDs will be
made available at the meeting. You can send your bookings to me and/or
Dexter.

Kindly make yourself available for the meeting.

Regards,
-Sudhanwa Jogalekar


~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~~
www.sudhanwa.com

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Re: [PLUG] Bloat

[Aditya Godbole]

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 10:48 PM, Kapil Kaisare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Aditya Godbole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Greetings.
>
> Your system need not be as bloated as you say it is.
>
> I run an XUbuntu setup, having replaced XFCE with Xmonad. I use mc as my
> file manager, vim for most editing tasks, Firefox 3 for webwork, and a few
> other programs.
>
> You can imagine how quickly it runs on my 1GB DDR SDRAM, AMD 2000XP+ system.
> :)

I use wmx as my window manager, vim as the editor and FF3 as the
browser (and pidgin once in a while), mplayer for Videos as mocp for
music.
The point is not what programs one chooses, but how the same programs
compare across newer versions of distributions on machines with
different RAM.

-aditya

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[PLUG] Statistics and Pune Linux UG [OT]

[म.हा.सा.ग.र]

I did a simple very nominal visible analysis of the PLUG archives...

of-course I was *thin/king in Marathi!

The result:
Of-course, the works of Shakespear can be repeated by 1000 monkeys
randomly jumping on the keyboard with probability of 0.01%.

Look at the size of raw archives over the period of Pune LUG.

The size of archive for August 2006 and September 2008 are of identical size...

What are the first and last messages of those two archives...

These two archives could be of particular interest to any serious statistician!

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