[Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday
hi, The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. First “Icecast" will be next Tuesday. You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. cheers, Esteban ps: Is “every tuesday” until I run out of things to show or time ;)
Re: [Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday
You hero, sir. On 14 April 2018 at 19:17, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > hi, > > The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. > > First “Icecast" will be next Tuesday. > You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. > > cheers, > Esteban > > ps: Is “every tuesday” until I run out of things to show or time ;) >
[Pharo-users] Recover question at startup
Hi, When I build DrGeo app against P7, then test it on a *different* computer used to build it, I have this dialog message at start up: "Its seems your last Pharo session existed without saving some code. Do you want to recover it?" As far as I understand it is related to Epicea, as I don't I need it in appication built, what is the way to properly unactivate it? Can it be uninstalled may be? Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu
Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
Le 13/04/2018 à 19:49, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. I don't see we are there yet. At least from my humble point of view the bootstrap still looks like WIP. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu
Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
On 14 April 2018 at 01:52, Richard Sargent wrote: > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 1:11 PM, Hilaire wrote: > >> Sometime Pharo frustrate me a lot, I felt it too in the message from >> Benoit, in the other hand its community is very kind and always helpful. So >> it is not about blaming people. >> >> In my opinion, there are too much things pushed at the same time in >> Pharo. You can't push too much things into the box, then when people >> complain about it to be overfull and bugged request them to fix it, I don't >> think it can work that way, at this scale of changes. In the other, this is >> not really what happen here, I very likely exaggerate this trait but you >> get the idea. >> >> For example, I developed DrGeo for several years on P3. Why sticking to >> P3? It gave me the opportunity to fine craft DrGeo to be stable and >> predictable in the way it behaves to its end users, and a lot of releases >> occurred. When I started to look at porting to newer image last June, I >> realized DrGeo will become unstable and oversized, so can of turning from >> A+ grade to a D- grade, just by the magic of porting it. My plan was to >> port it during the summer to get it ready end of August to deploy in local >> schools, it does not happen. And I can write it: it is s-u-p-e-r >> f-r-u-s-t-r-a-t-i-n-g. Is it normal when porting code? I don't know, I am a >> casual developer, but it makes developing well crafted and reliable Pharo >> application a bit expensive to my taste. To such a scale that I started to >> evaluate alternative to Pharo as the underneath system, idea I finally gave >> up after several weeks of evaluations. All in all I still have this felling >> Pharo is not developer friendly, I fell DrGeo is not secure there. See when >> porting to newer image, I end up using P7-32bits alpha on Linux because it >> was the most comfortable situation comparing to P5/P6/P6.1, is it not >> strange? >> >> In the other hand this struggle occurs at image change. Ok, may be it is >> a pattern specific to Smalltalk. Is it the case with commercial Smalltalk >> vendors? > > > Hi Hilaire, > > Thanks for articulating this. I've been mostly watching Pharo rather than > using it, so I haven't been affected by the changes between versions. With > respect to commercial products versus Pharo *at the present time*, I > think we have different driving forces shaping things. > > In my opinion, VA Smalltalk has been the one most strongly driven by the > importance of backward compatibility and ease of migration to a new > version. VisualWorks has been pretty good about providing a path forward > with minimal pain, although the more major version numbers difference, the > harder it is to transition. Likewise, GemStone/S has a strong emphasis on > keeping our customers' existing applications running with minimal changes. > > That being said, I have no doubt that the earliest versions of all these > products had substantial incompatibilities between versions. I am also > pretty sure there is a threshold beyond which the adoption of Pharo in > business applications will compel Pharo development to facilitate migration > to newer versions and to better maintain API compatibility. [And that may > be simply because, as more businesses rely on Pharo, they will be > financially supporting its development.] > You would expect this be a natural progression as more companies supporting such priorities join the consortium. The corollary is that its better the take greater leaps earlier when there is a greater percentage of Innovators and Early Adopters who are willing to ride some rough edges for the benefit they gain *now*. When the Majority arrive, such changes would be more disruptive to perception of Pharo i.e. more opinons, less care. cheers -ben > > A second consideration is the size of the product teams (measured in > full-time staffing). I think the commercial products had a much larger > staffing in their early days than Pharo has even now. And I think the > consequence of that is that the changes between v1 and v2 or between v2 and > v3 of the commercial products *may* have been comparable to the > differences between Pharo v(n) and v(n+3). > > > Richard > > >> >> Hilaire >> >> -- >> Dr. Geo >> http://drgeo.eu >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
Le sam. 14 avr. 2018 10:46, Hilaire a écrit : > Le 13/04/2018 à 19:49, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : > > We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same > > and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. > I don't see we are there yet. At least from my humble point of view the > bootstrap still looks like WIP. > However, for pragmatic software deployments, working out of the minimal image is a nice improvement. The best of both world: full featured when needed, concise when needed. Thierry > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > > >
Re: [Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday
Excellent!! Alexandre http://bergel.eu > Le 14 avr. 2018 à 09:17, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : > > hi, > > The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. > > First “Icecast" will be next Tuesday. > You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. > > cheers, > Esteban > > ps: Is “every tuesday” until I run out of things to show or time ;)
Re: [Pharo-users] IDEA: I will record an Iceberg cast (an "Icecast" ; ) ) every tuesday
Use big fonts. And add a title: "commiting a change" Stef On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > You hero, sir. > > > On 14 April 2018 at 19:17, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> The idea is to show a small example of something and to answer questions. >> >> First “Icecast" will be next Tuesday. >> You can send your questions in the iceberg channel or in list. >> >> cheers, >> Esteban >> >> ps: Is “every tuesday” until I run out of things to show or time ;) > >
Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
Hilaire I will not start to argue. The bootstrap is in production since the beginning of Pharo 70. Now building multiple different images from it is another story. Stef On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Hilaire wrote: > Le 13/04/2018 à 19:49, Stephane Ducasse a écrit : >> >> We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same >> and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. > > I don't see we are there yet. At least from my humble point of view the > bootstrap still looks like WIP. > > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >
Re: [Pharo-users] QRCode - A thank you note
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > Thanks Jochen, thanks everyone. Great report! Thanks, Sven :) I was thinking in the same direction - that my posts always seem to focus on our work moving forward, and I rarely take the time to do a nice writeup of successful applications like these, of which I've had many. I was also thinking that many of the recent animated discussions are signs of health in our community because: a) They seem to often involve people that are not regular posters to the list, signaling a potential widening of buy-in b) While our community values constructive feedback (even if it's very direct), it also fiercely protects people who have given us a lot (as evidenced by the overwhelming response to a recent trolling on another ML) c) Maybe most important: they are often about code and infrastructure that didn't even *exist* a few years ago. For example, now we complain about breaking builds; I'm sure we all remember not long ago when there was *no* CI at all to complain about! It seems amazing that the system is as stable as it is considering everything we overhauled/invented, including: streams, http, file system, browser (2x), git support, FFI, changes, catalog, the compiler, GT… For myself, I am clear that any instability is a small price to pay for the power and hope that Pharo offers. Every time I drop out of our live, direct, turetles-all-the-way down into a Ruby script, command line, or configuration file, this is proven again. All we have to do is hang on! It is a well known principle that it often seem most difficult just before success and the difference is who quits and who doesn't :) - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Re: [Pharo-users] [OT] Reminder about quoting/top-posting
Esteban A. Maringolo wrote > Can I ask for more trimming of the quoted text and/or emails replied to? +1. Always good and courteous advice. - Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Re: [Pharo-users] Recover question at startup
Replying to myself for the record, these two lines seem to inactivate Epicea "Inactivate Epicea" EpSettings monitorEnabled: false. EpSettings lostEventsDetectorEnabled: false. Now, there is still likely an issue I don't understand -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu
Re: [Pharo-users] Recover question at startup
Hi, I have been checking this problem and the message is shown because is trying to find the ombu file for the current session. Usually what it does is comparing the file with the recorded size and timestamp in the image to check that the file has no new changes. If the file is newer or larger than the previous info of the image, the recover message appears. I think there is a bug here, although I am not sure, I think that Martín has to help to understand it. Because in the current implementation if the file does not exists it produces the recovery message. Even though it can show that there are changes, if there is no file with them I think is quite difficult to recover them. This behaviour is not happening in the machine where the image is built, because the file exists in the disk. They are stored in the pharo-local directory. Cheers, Pablo On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Hilaire wrote: > Replying to myself for the record, these two lines seem to inactivate > Epicea > > "Inactivate Epicea" > EpSettings monitorEnabled: false. > EpSettings lostEventsDetectorEnabled: false. > > > Now, there is still likely an issue I don't understand > > > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > > > -- Pablo Tesone. teso...@gmail.com
Re: [Pharo-users] Recover question at startup
Le 14/04/2018 à 18:32, teso...@gmail.com a écrit : This behaviour is not happening in the machine where the image is built, because the file exists in the disk. They are stored in the pharo-local directory. And it tries to access it and at some point the path to the file get absolute, right? Then saved in the built image? May be this should not happen. Thanks for the clarifications. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu
Re: [Pharo-users] QRCode - A thank you note
On 14 April 2018 at 22:15, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > > Thanks Jochen, thanks everyone. > > Great report! Thanks, Sven :) I was thinking in the same direction - that > my > posts always seem to focus on our work moving forward, and I rarely take > the > time to do a nice writeup of successful applications like these, of which > I've had many. > > I was also thinking that many of the recent animated discussions are signs > of health in our community I recently came across an interesting hypothesis... "There are two types of programming languages. Those that people complain about, and those that people don't use." Is it masochistic to hope we are moving towards the former? > because: a) They seem to often involve people that are not regular posters to the > list, signaling a potential widening of buy-in > While there is likely a growing need to guard against trolls, consider that newcomers may commit limited time to posting, be hurting and lash out, and with fresh eyes, may be poking us where it hurts. For us, don't take it personally. If we focus our response on the technical aspects, we lead the discussion where we want it to go. The easiest thing for a Pharo newcomer to do when experiencing problems is to just drop it and move on to something else. That they put in the effort to articulate their issues is a good thing, and are the seeds of a contributor concerned with making Pharo better. For newcomers, remember that many people have invested a lot of volunteer effort into Pharo and is something dear to our hearts. We love specific *constructive* feedback that helps us make Pharo better, but broad complaints only detract with little benefit. cheers -ben P.S. Years ago, this article was influential to me... http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > b) While our community values constructive feedback (even if it's very > direct), it also fiercely protects people who have given us a lot (as > evidenced by the overwhelming response to a recent trolling on another ML) > c) Maybe most important: they are often about code and infrastructure that > didn't even *exist* a few years ago. For example, now we complain about > breaking builds; I'm sure we all remember not long ago when there was *no* > CI at all to complain about! It seems amazing that the system is as stable > as it is considering everything we overhauled/invented, including: streams, > http, file system, browser (2x), git support, FFI, changes, catalog, the > compiler, GT… > > For myself, I am clear that any instability is a small price to pay for the > power and hope that Pharo offers. Every time I drop out of our live, > direct, > turetles-all-the-way down into a Ruby script, command line, or > configuration > file, this is proven again. > > All we have to do is hang on! It is a well known principle that it often > seem most difficult just before success and the difference is who quits and > who doesn't :) > > > > - > Cheers, > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >
Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
On 13 April 2018 at 17:49, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Benoit St-Jean > To: Esteban Lorenzano > Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 09:49:15 + (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? > For those interested. > > Created the issues 21686, 21693, 21695, 21696. > > And more to come... > Thanks for those. I don't much time right to devote, but managed to knock one off. And I learn't something new. I'd not known there was a setting for screen background. The other ones seem related to a problem dealing with user home folders containing non-ascii characters. Currently this seems only to affect a small number of people, but is a show stopper for them, and the numbers will grow with our hoped for growing popularity. As a work around, in the PharoLauncher settings can you set the directories like C:\PharoLauncher\images C:\PharoLaucnher\vms and report if that helps. Note, I bumped into an issue changing that setting myself recently where it tries to migrate the existing images from the old to the new folder, causing a catch-22 when your trying to do that to work around other problems. To work around that, I had to scroll down the debug stack to find where the migration was iterating through the image folders, and short circuit that with "Return entered value" from the context menu. Any value will do when the return value is not used. good luck. @PharoLauncher maintainers, can the change in this setting be made to succeed even if the migration fails. (I need to run right now) cheers -ben
Re: [Pharo-users] Recover question at startup
> > On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Hilaire wrote: > >> Replying to myself for the record, these two lines seem to inactivate >> Epicea >> >> "Inactivate Epicea" >> EpSettings monitorEnabled: false. >> EpSettings lostEventsDetectorEnabled: false. >> >> >> Now, there is still likely an issue I don't understand > > On 15 April 2018 at 00:32, teso...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi, >I have been checking this problem and the message is shown because is > trying to find the ombu file for the current session. > Usually what it does is comparing the file with the recorded size and > timestamp in the image to check that the file has no new changes. > If the file is newer or larger than the previous info of the image, the > recover message appears. > > I think there is a bug here, although I am not sure, I think that Martín > has to help to understand it. > Because in the current implementation if the file does not exists it > produces the recovery message. > Even though it can show that there are changes, if there is no file with > them I think is quite difficult to recover them. > > This behaviour is not happening in the machine where the image is built, > because the file exists in the disk. They are stored in the pharo-local > directory. > > Cheers, > Pablo > I didn't have a chance to check for repeat-ability, but yesterday I saved-quit and Image-A, then in PharoLauncher did a Copy of Image-A to image-B, then opening Image-B got a question about Recovery that I didn't expect or want. cheers -ben
Re: [Pharo-users] QRCode - A thank you note
Hi Sven,
Thanks a lot for the positive message!
Indeed, it is a much needed perspective, and I am sure there are many other
similar examples.
Btw, nice work, too :).
Cheers,
Doru
> On Apr 13, 2018, at 8:47 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Given that the mailing lists are often used to ask questions when we get in
> trouble, report bugs and other issues, conduct public discussion between
> strong headed individuals, we quickly forget what a fantastic platform Pharo
> is.
>
> Last month I implemented a rough MVP-style ticket sales platform that was
> successfully used to sell and validate at the entrance, about 1000 digital,
> online tickets for a relatively large 3000+ attendance event (a party). It
> took only a couple of days to build and deploy, and it was a lot of fun - it
> was even done in 'unstable' Pharo 7.
>
> Early on I decided to identify each individual ticket by a unique URL. For
> easier presentation and scanning purposes, I encoded that URL in a QR code.
>
> Although I am grateful for the whole Pharo ecosystem (including Seaside), we
> all build on top of other people's work, I was especially happy with Jochen
> Rick's QRCode package (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~JochenRick/QRCode/). This
> is such a great piece of work !
>
> It worked right out of the box in Pharo 7 (even though it is from 2013/2014),
> was well designed, easy to figure out, was well documented, had unit tests. I
> can't say anything bad about it, it is as close to perfect as I have ever
> seen. So: thanks Jochen, you made my day !
>
> Here is how a ticket generates its own QR code:
>
> T123Ticket>>#asQRCode
> ^ self url asString asQRCode formWithQuietZone magnifyBy: 5
>
> Just beautiful.
>
> It is also easy (for a non-graphics, non-UI person like me) to combine the QR
> code with some text:
>
> T123Ticket >>#asQRCodeWithText
> | form font |
> form := Form extent: 535 @ 185 depth: 1.
> font := LogicalFont familyName: 'Bitmap DejaVu Sans' pointSize: 14.
> self asQRCode displayOn: form at: 0 @ 0.
> form getCanvas
> drawString: self url asString at: 180 @ 20 font: font color: Color black;
> drawString: self id36, ' - ', ticketId asString at: 180 @ 45 font: font
> color: Color black;
> drawString: (name ifNil: [ 'N.N' ]) at: 180 @ 90 font: font color: Color
> black;
> drawString: (email ifNil: [ '@' ]) at: 180 @ 115 font: font color: Color
> black;
> drawString: (phone ifNil: [ '+' ]) at: 180 @ 140 font: font color: Color
> black.
> ^ form
>
> Next we combine this with a nice template designed by a graphics artist:
>
> T123Ticket >>#asQRCodeWithTextInTemplate
> | templateFile form |
> templateFile := 'tickets123-template-{1}.jpg' format: { self event id }.
> form := PluginBasedJPEGReadWriter formFromFileNamed: templateFile.
> self asQRCodeWithText displayOn: form at: 20@540.
> ^ form
>
> And finally, the ticket form is encoded as a JPEG (to be mailed and so on):
>
> T123Ticket >>#asJPEGBytes
> ^ ByteArray streamContents: [ :out |
> PluginBasedJPEGReadWriter putForm: self asQRCodeWithTextInTemplate
> onStream: out ]
>
>
>
> I also found GT Inspector very handy (again) in doing back end work (managing
> payments and other administration), especially the ability to use Spotter on
> a collection open in an inspector.
>
> Anyway, I know many of you have similar happy experiences, I just wanted to
> share (one of) mine.
>
> Thanks Jochen, thanks everyone.
>
> Sven
>
> --
> Sven Van Caekenberghe
> Proudly supporting Pharo
> http://pharo.org
> http://association.pharo.org
> http://consortium.pharo.org
>
>
>
--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com
"Speaking louder won't make the point worthier."
