[Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

2014-08-23 Thread Wilfred Hughes
Hi folks

I've been playing with Pharo recently, and really enjoying writing some
programs in the Pharo environment.

As a result, I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I would use
Emacs, as an environment for doing everything.

For example, can I use Pharo to:

* Send emails to this mailing list?
* Use IRC?
* Start Bash?
* Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)?

If these things do exist, how do I discover them? Is there a package
manager I can use to find new tools I can use in Pharo?


Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

2014-08-23 Thread kilon alios
"Hi folks

I've been playing with Pharo recently, and really enjoying writing some
programs in the Pharo environment."

Hello and welcome to the Pharo family

"As a result, I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I would use
Emacs, as an environment for doing everything."

No Pharo is a different beast, but beast none the less. Each one has its
pros and cons. Emacs is more for CL and text editing stuff and excels at
that . Pharo is more for GUI and Graphics stuff and it excels at that.
Emacs is more popular and more actively developed but Pharo comes with a
very powerful programming language and much more performant than elisp.
Personally I use both Emacs and Pharo , I love both and I find both
awesome. I use emacs for documenting stuff for Pharo , like my contribution
to updating the Pharo By Example book to Pharo 3 and 4.

"* Send emails to this mailing list?"

I think there are libraries for dealing with emails, I dont think there is
an actual email client for Pharo though if my memory serves me correctly I
remember a email client for Squeak. So its definitely doable with Pharo.

"* Use IRC?"

Again I think there is no client for this,  definitely a cool project ,
again doable with Pharo because it has very good support for sockets and
IRC is a rather simple socket protocol. I use sockets extensively for my
project "Ephestos" to make Pharo talk to Python and use Python libraries
from inside Pharo even with Pharo syntax. Using sockets is actually very
simple.

"Start Bash?"

Pharo has a command shell, similar to emacs eshell. But I dont know how
powerful it is and if it has full shell support but for basic stuff it
works as I have tested it personally but I prefer using Xterm 2 .

If you mean call shell scripts thats doable too, also pharo can be called
from the terminal and used as a bash tool , so you have many options here.

" Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)?"

No you cant read (AFAIK) Pharo By Example from inside Pharo but there is a
help tool similar to emacs help tool. Unfortunately it has not been
the preferred choice for documenting stuff. On the other hand Pillar which
is a quite popular choice for Pharo documentation works on top of Latex and
can export to html , markdown and pdf and of course text files. So
documentation wise I think Pharo is more powerful than Emacs in what it can
do.

Because I happen to use Pillar a lot for updating Pharo By Example I really
like it so far and I think Pharo devs have done a very good job with it. I
think also because pillar syntax is  very simple it should not be too hard
to make pillar files viewable from inside Pharo. So I think we are close
with that target too.

" Is there a package manager I can use to find new tools I can use in Pharo"

yes its called "configuration browser" and comes included with Pharo. If
you get a latest Pharo 3 image you should already seen a lot of packages in
the configuration browser, Installing them is also a single action process.

"If these things do exist, how do I discover them?"

the old trusted process of googling . Here some links that google returned
to me

http://forum.world.st/Sending-email-with-Pharo-td4647555.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m5z6p8874w

http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1524

http://tulipemoutarde.be/2011/12/29/send-email-from-pharo-with-postmark.html


Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

2014-08-23 Thread Sean P. DeNigris
kilon.alios wrote
> I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I would use
> Emacs, as an environment for doing everything."

This is the dream - the Dynabook vision. Smalltalk was a protoype
exploration of JCR Licklider's dream, articulated in the early 60s "to
become interactive intellectual amplifiers for all people", or as Dan
Ingalls put it "to provide computer support for the creative spirit in
everyone". There is no reason why Pharo should not be able to do this.
Indeed it is why its lineage exists in the first place. The only thing
necessary is the effort to implement the features that matter to you.


kilon.alios wrote
> "* Use IRC?"

I remember there is at least one project, but would probably have to be
ported to a current Pharo version


kilon.alios wrote
> Pharo has a command shell, similar to emacs eshell

I've experimented with it quite a bit. The features are very impressive when
you dig into it.


kilon.alios wrote
> " Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)?"

This - unfortunately - is the weakest point of all the features you have
mentioned. While multimedia is an essential part of the Dynabook vision,
standards and formats have been moving so quickly and becoming so
complicated that our community's resources are overwhelmed, and it seems we
have mostly conceded here, although there are some bits and pieces lying
around and now-a-days with all the FFI/NB advancements, a quick hack would
be to wrap existing external libraries.


kilon.alios wrote
> " Is there a package manager I can use to find new tools I can use in
> Pharo"

We are moving closer and closer to this, but don't yet have one central
catalog.

Anyway, welcome! What you're suggesting is a dream for many of us. We've
been focusing these last few years on infrastructure to make it more
practical. Let's make it happen :)

- Sean



-
Cheers,
Sean
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