Migration to PGLister - After

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings!

This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
in one way or another.

If you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing list, please click on
'Show Original' or 'Show Headers' in your client and find the
'List-Unsubscribe' header which will include a link that you can click
on (or copy/paste into your browser) and use to unsubscribe yourself
from this list.

The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
on the wiki here: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce the
current version of which is also included below.

Thank you!

Stephen


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Re: [GENERAL] unnest-like pg_stats.most_common_values and pg_stats.most_common_freqs

[Tom Lane]

Luca Ferrari  writes:
> I don't think it is what I'm looking for, I would like something ,like:
>  select unnest( histogram_bounds::text::text[] ), unnest(
> most_common_freqs ) from pg_stats
> but with correlation between the two array indexes. Is it something
> achievable in SQL? Or should I use a plpgsql loop with an index?

Those two aren't correlated ... but I think what you want is

select ...,v,f
from
  pg_stats,
  rows from (unnest(most_common_vals::text::text[]),
 unnest(most_common_freqs)) r(v,f)
where ...

Seems to work back to 9.4.

regards, tom lane

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 6:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:

The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
on the wiki here:https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce  the
current version of which is also included below.



A peeve on this new configuration:    if someone does a reply-all and 
sends both direct and list responses, the direct response ends up in my 
regular inbox because it doesn't have the List-ID... Previously, the 
direct reply would still have the Subject: [listname] that I filtered 
on, so it too would end up in my 'postgres' folder, where I want it.


I realize why this was done, and yada yada, what a mess.


--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Re: [GENERAL] Query Using Massive Temp Space

[Tom Lane]

Cory Tucker  writes:
> I have a query that is using a tremendous amount of temp disk space given
> the overall size of the dataset.  I'd love for someone to try to explain
> what PG is doing and why its using so much space for the query.

> First off, the system is PG 9.6 on Ubuntu with 4 cores and 28 GB of RAM.

9.6.what exactly?

> The query in question is a fairly large join of several tables (6)
> including some aggregations.  The overall dataset size of the 6 tables in
> question is about 20GB and the largest table is about 15M rows.  The query
> is essentially a dump of *most* of the data from these tables joined
> together to be used in another system.
> When the query runs it begins to use an aggressive amount of temp space on
> the volume over the course of many hours, until it reaches about 95%
> capacity and then tapers off.  Never completes though.  The temp space it
> uses is around 1.5TB out of a 2TB volume.  Again, the *total* size of the
> relations in question is only 20GB.

The only thing I can think of offhand that could create temp files far in
excess of the actual data volume is if a hash join repeatedly decides that
it needs to increase the number of hash batches.  We have seen that happen
in cases where an inner relation contains a vast number of identical hash
key values: they all go into the same bucket, and the executor keeps
splitting the batch trying to reduce its size, but being all identical
values it will never be the case that some rows go into a different batch
than others.  There is logic in there to give up splitting when this
happens, but maybe it's not firing in your case, or maybe somebody broke
it recently :-(.

I find it suspicious that your plan involves two separate hash joins both
of which have a much larger table on the inside than the outside ---
offhand that does not look very sane.  So there's also a question of
why did the planner do that.

What can you tell us about the distributions of the join keys for the two
hash joins --- are those keys unique, or a bit less than unique, or very
much not unique?

It would also be interesting to keep an eye on the temp files themselves.
How many are there, how large are they, how fast are new ones created?
If my theory above is right, it would likely manifest as there being a
lot of zero-size temp files from the wasted split attempts (and other
files being exactly the same size as the ones from the previous
iteration).

regards, tom lane

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 09:32 AM, John R Pierce wrote:

On 11/20/2017 6:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:

The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
on the wiki here:https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce  the
current version of which is also included below.



A peeve on this new configuration:    if someone does a reply-all and 
sends both direct and list responses, the direct response ends up in 
my regular inbox because it doesn't have the List-ID... Previously, 
the direct reply would still have the Subject: [listname] that I 
filtered on, so it too would end up in my 'postgres' folder, where I 
want it.


I realize why this was done, and yada yada, what a mess.



Yep, but that is why the list-id filter is bad advice (at least for me). 
I filter on the list email address and it works flawlessly.


JD



--
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PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
* Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings,

* John R Pierce (pie...@hogranch.com) wrote:
> On 11/20/2017 6:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
> >The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> >on the wiki here:https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce  the
> >current version of which is also included below.
> 
> A peeve on this new configuration:    if someone does a reply-all
> and sends both direct and list responses, the direct response ends
> up in my regular inbox because it doesn't have the List-ID...
> Previously, the direct reply would still have the Subject:
> [listname] that I filtered on, so it too would end up in my
> 'postgres' folder, where I want it.
> 
> I realize why this was done, and yada yada, what a mess.

Indeed.  Not much we can do about that, unfortunately.  Subject is not
something we're able to change.

Personally, I've always had emails which cc'd me going into my inbox and
prefer it, but I can see the counter-argument.  There is an option in
pglister to not receive *both*, but that means that you only get the
email which is sent directly to you and I realize you'd prefer the
opposite, but I don't see any way for us to address that while still
following the DKIM, et al, rules.

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Stephen Frost]

Josh,

* Joshua D. Drake (j...@commandprompt.com) wrote:
> Yep, but that is why the list-id filter is bad advice (at least for
> me). I filter on the list email address and it works flawlessly.

Indeed, this depends on what you're looking to do.  Filtering on
addresses listed in the To/CC is another approach and might work for
some, but it really depends on what you want.

If you do filter on the addresses listed in the To/CC, then it would
probably make sense to turn off the 'extra copy' option in the PGLister
configuration to avoid having duplicates.

If, as I do, you'd prefer to have both and to have the emails sent
through the list end up in a specific folder with the emails sent
directly to you going to your inbox, then using List-Id is the better
approach.

As mentioned up-thread, this isn't something we're able to really
control on the PGLister side, however.

Thanks!

Stephen


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[Matt]

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017, Joshua D. Drake wrote:


Yep, but that is why the list-id filter is bad advice (at least for me). I
filter on the list email address and it works flawlessly.


Joshua,

  This does not work if the procmail recipe is for pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
and the source includes the server; e.g, pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org.
Perhaps adding '.*' in front of postgresql.org will fix this.

Rich

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Daniel Pocock]

On 20/11/17 18:32, John R Pierce wrote:
> On 11/20/2017 6:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
>> The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
>> on the wiki here:https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce  the
>> current version of which is also included below.
> 
> 
> A peeve on this new configuration:    if someone does a reply-all and
> sends both direct and list responses, the direct response ends up in my
> regular inbox because it doesn't have the List-ID... Previously, the
> direct reply would still have the Subject: [listname] that I filtered
> on, so it too would end up in my 'postgres' folder, where I want it.
> 
> I realize why this was done, and yada yada, what a mess.
> 
> 


People shouldn't do "Reply All" unless they really want you to see the
reply.

Comparing old and new:

List-ID: 

has become:

List-Id: 


Notice the case changes (from 'ID' -> 'Id') and 'lists' is inserted in
the middle.  Were both of those changes intentional?  Mail headers are
not case sensitive so good filtering software shouldn't notice the
former but everybody will be annoyed by the latter.

Regards,

Daniel

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings Rich,

* Rich Shepard (rshep...@appl-ecosys.com) wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2017, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >Yep, but that is why the list-id filter is bad advice (at least for me). I
> >filter on the list email address and it works flawlessly.
> 
>   This does not work if the procmail recipe is for 
> pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
> and the source includes the server; e.g, pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org.
> Perhaps adding '.*' in front of postgresql.org will fix this.

Yes, for a while both of those addresses will work and therefore you'd
need to handle both addresses (there's a few different ways you could do
that; with a regexp, I'd suggest something more specific, eg: (lists.)?
).

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings,

* Daniel Pocock (dan...@pocock.pro) wrote:
> On 20/11/17 18:32, John R Pierce wrote:
> > On 11/20/2017 6:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
> >> The changes which we expect to be most significant to users can be found
> >> on the wiki here:https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce  the
> >> current version of which is also included below.
> > 
> > A peeve on this new configuration:    if someone does a reply-all and
> > sends both direct and list responses, the direct response ends up in my
> > regular inbox because it doesn't have the List-ID... Previously, the
> > direct reply would still have the Subject: [listname] that I filtered
> > on, so it too would end up in my 'postgres' folder, where I want it.
> > 
> > I realize why this was done, and yada yada, what a mess.
> 
> People shouldn't do "Reply All" unless they really want you to see the
> reply.

The general policy on this list is to do 'reply all', as there's often
people sending email to the lists who are not also subscribed (but also
because there are people, such as myself, who would prefer to get both
emails).

> Comparing old and new:
> 
> List-ID: 
> 
> has become:
> 
> List-Id: 

Yes, that's correct.

Thanks!

Stephen


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[Chris Withers]

Make it stap :'(

On 20/11/2017 17:55, Zacher, Stacy wrote:

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> On Nov 20, 2017, at 12:56 PM, Arnaldo Gandol  wrote:
> 
> -- 
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Re: [GENERAL] postmaster deadlock while logging after syslogger exited

[David Pacheco]

Responding to several points below.

Tom Lane wrote:
> David's report isn't too clear: did the syslogger process actually run
> out of memory and exit of its own volition after an ENOMEM, or did it get
> killed by the dreaded OOM killer?  In either case, it's unclear whether
> it was really using an excessive amount of memory.  We have not heard
> reports suggesting a memory leak in the syslogger, but maybe there is
> one under unusual circumstances?

I'm running on illumos, where there is no OOM killer.

I expect what happened is that the syslogger process attempted to allocate
memory, failed because the system was low, and explicitly exited.  That's
consistent with an exited process, no core file generated, and the "FATAL"
"out
of memory" entries in the log I posted.

Of course, that doesn't mean the syslogger was using much memory.  It means
only
that it attempted to allocate any memory in a context where it could not
handle
failing.


Andres Freund wrote:
> I'm somewhat inclined to say that one has to live with this if the
> system is so resource constrainted that processes barely using memory
> get killed.

Again, there's no OOM killer here, so the process has the opportunity to
respond
differently.  I can understand the database not functioning well when the
system
is out of memory, but this half-functioning, half-deadlocked state is quite
disruptive.  By comparison, while not ideal, if the syslogger had raised
SIGABRT
instead, that would have been significantly better for my use-case.  Our
process
manager would have terminated all of the processes associated with the
database
and restarted it.


Tom Lane wrote:
> Hm, so that's another angle David didn't report on: is it possible that
> his workload could have resulted in a very large volume of incomplete
> in-progress log messages?

Yes.  I mentioned in my Nov 6 mail that large log messages over a short
period
appear to have been a major contributing factor:

> Here are all of the entries in the PostgreSQL log from 23:19:12 until the
top of
> the next hour:
>
https://gist.githubusercontent.com/davepacheco/c5541bb464532075f2da761dd990a457/raw/2ba242055aca2fb374e9118045a830d08c590e0a/gistfile1.txt
...
> There are also many log entries for some very long SQL queries.  I'm sure
that
> contributed to this problem by filling up the pipe.  I was able to
extract the
> contents of the pipe while the system was hung, and it was more of these
giant
> query strings.



Andres Freund wrote:
> Note that there's plenty of cases where you could run into this even
> without being unable to fork new processes. You'd e.g. could also run
> into this while logging the exit of some other subprocess or such,
> there's enough ereports in postmaster.

This is a critical point.  As far as I can tell, all that's necessary for
this
deadlock to occur is:

- the syslogger is unable to make forward progress (e.g., because it
segfaulted)
- enough other processes write to the pipe that it fills up before the
  postmaster can restart the syslogger
- the postmaster attempts to write to the log as part of any of its signal
  handling operations

It seems to me that the same thing can happen if there were a bug in the
syslogger that resulted in a segfault around the same time that the
postmaster
attempted to start an autovacuum worker, for example (if there was also
reasonably high log traffic).


Thanks,
Dave

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From: Yang, Xiaoguang 
Sent: 20 November 2017 18:16
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El 20/11/2017 1:20 p.m., "Rasha Osman"  escribió:

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> *From:* Yang, Xiaoguang 
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From:   rammohan ganapavarapu 
To: gp...@free.fr, pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Date:   11/20/2017 01:25 PM
Subject:Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?



Gilles,

Thank you, if we set wal_level in version <= 9.6  to "logical" what does 
it mean what does it do? do we still call it as logical replication? also 
how to tell if my replication is logical or physical. Please excuse me if 
i am asking stupid questions :) i am new to Postgres.

Ram

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:20 AM,  wrote:

Hello,

yes, before postgres version 10, you must use an extension such as 
pg_logical
to build logical replication between master and slave.

For pg_logical, see the following links to help you start :
https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/resources/pglogical/pglogical-docs/
http://bonesmoses.org/2016/10/14/pg-phriday-perfectly-logical/
https://www.depesz.com/2016/11/08/major-version-upgrading-with-minimal-downtime/


Regards
Gilles


- Mail original -
De: "rammohan ganapavarapu" 
À: gp...@free.fr, pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 17 Novembre 2017 16:43:57
Objet: Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?



Hi,


I was using pg_basebackup to rebuild slave, so pglogical is not in-built 
in postgres and I have to install?


Thanks



On Nov 17, 2017 12:42 AM, < gp...@free.fr > wrote:



Hello,

How did you create the slave ? with pg_basebackup or via rsync ?
In any case, the slave MUST have been built with a backup/rsync made AFTER 
the master have been restarted when you changed
wal_level to logical.

Note, that you did so far, set wal_level=logical, is just a prerequisite 
to use logical replication.
After that, you need a tool which will extract the changes in the WALs 
from the master and will replay them on the slave.

Such tool is pg_logical : 
https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/resources/pglogical/


Regards


- Mail original -
De: "rammohan ganapavarapu" < rammohanga...@gmail.com >
À: gp...@free.fr , pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 16 Novembre 2017 17:58:42

Objet: Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?


From Slave (9.6):


Database cluster state: shut down in recovery

wal_level setting: logical



From master (9.4) :


Database cluster state: in production

Current wal_level setting: logical



Quite frankly i couldn't find proper document on how to set logical 
replication in 9.4, i think i am using pg_logical. All i did was set 
wal_level to logical and add primary_slot_name in recovery.conf. Do i need 
to install pglogical extension? i couldn't find one for amazon linux.






Thanks,
Ram


On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 6:12 AM, < gp...@free.fr > wrote:



Hello again,

can you execute pg_controldata command on both Master and Slave
and check the following properties :
Database cluster state
wal_level setting

Also, if I understand correctly, you want to establish logical replication 
between your 9.4 master
and your 9.6 slave but you don't explain how ? using pg_logical ?

Regards

- Mail original -
De: "rammohan ganapavarapu" < rammohanga...@gmail.com >
À: "David G. Johnston" < david.g.johns...@gmail.com >
Cc: pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Envoyé: Mercredi 15 Novembre 2017 22:23:57
Objet: Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?




Any one tried this before?


On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 8:17 AM, rammohan ganapavarapu < 
rammohanga...@gmail.com > wrote:



David,


So initially i have physical replication configured, so to upgrade slave 
to 9.6 version i did converted master slave to logical replication and 
then try to upgrade the slave to 9.6. I am getting this error when i try 
to start the slave. Any idea?





2017-11-08 05:08:49 UTC [20063]: [1-1] user= db= host= LOG: shutting down
2017-11-08 05:08:49 UTC [20063]: [2-1] user= db= host= LOG: database 
system is shut down
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20322]: [1-1] user= db= host= LOG: database 
system was shut down at 2017-11-08 05:08:55 UTC
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20322]: [2-1] user= db= host= LOG: entering 
standby mode
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20322]: [3-1] user= db= host= WARNING: WAL was 
generated with wal_level=minimal, data may be missing
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20322]: [4-1] user= db= host= HINT: This happens 
if you temporarily set wal_level=minimal without taking a new base backup.
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20322]: [5-1] user= db= host= FATAL: hot standby 
is not possible because wal_level was not set to "replica" or higher on 
the master server
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20322]: [6-1] user= db= host= HINT: Either set 
wal_level to "replica" on the master, or turn off hot_standby here.
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20312]: [3-1] user= db= host= LOG: startup 
process (PID 20322) exited with exit code 1
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20312]: [4-1] user= db= host= LOG: aborting 
startup due to startup process failure
2017-11-08 05:09:45 UTC [20312]: [5-1] user= db= host= LOG: da

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017, Stephen Frost wrote:


Yes, for a while both of those addresses will work and therefore you'd
need to handle both addresses (there's a few different ways you could do
that; with a regexp, I'd suggest something more specific, eg: (lists.)? ).


Stephen,

  Yes, I changed the postgresql recipes to have the lists prefix.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: [GENERAL] postmaster deadlock while logging after syslogger exited

[Andres Freund]

Hi,

On 2017-11-20 10:13:57 -0800, David Pacheco wrote:
> I expect what happened is that the syslogger process attempted to allocate
> memory, failed because the system was low, and explicitly exited.  That's
> consistent with an exited process, no core file generated, and the "FATAL"
> "out
> of memory" entries in the log I posted.

Well unfortunately we're presumably not going to see output from
syslogger's death itself, chicken and egg etc.


> Tom Lane wrote:
> > Hm, so that's another angle David didn't report on: is it possible that
> > his workload could have resulted in a very large volume of incomplete
> > in-progress log messages?
> 
> Yes.  I mentioned in my Nov 6 mail that large log messages over a
> short period appear to have been a major contributing factor:

So it's actually quite possible that syslogger did use a fair amount of
memory. Could you show its memory usage, just via ps?


> This is a critical point.  As far as I can tell, all that's necessary
> for this deadlock to occur is:
> 
> - the syslogger is unable to make forward progress (e.g., because it
> segfaulted)

This specific case I don't care that much about, but ...


> - enough other processes write to the pipe that it fills up before the
>   postmaster can restart the syslogger
> - the postmaster attempts to write to the log as part of any of its signal
>   handling operations
> 
> It seems to me that the same thing can happen if there were a bug in the
> syslogger that resulted in a segfault around the same time that the
> postmaster
> attempted to start an autovacuum worker, for example (if there was also
> reasonably high log traffic).


Greetings,

Andres Freund

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Dean Gibson (DB Administrator)]

My procmail filter is now:

*  H ?? ^TO_pgsql-.*@(lists.)?postgresql.org


On 2017-11-20 09:49, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Yep, but that is why the list-id filter is bad advice (at least for 
me). I

filter on the list email address and it works flawlessly.


Joshua,

  This does not work if the procmail recipe is for 
pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
and the source includes the server; e.g, 
pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org.

Perhaps adding '.*' in front of postgresql.org will fix this.

Rich

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From:rammohan ganapavarapu 
mailto:rammohanga...@gmail.com>>
To:gp...@free.fr, 
pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Date:11/20/2017 01:25 PM
Subject:Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?





Gilles,

Thank you, if we set wal_level in version <= 9.6  to "logical" what does it 
mean what does it do? do we still call it as logical replication? also how to 
tell if my replication is logical or physical. Please excuse me if i am asking 
stupid questions :) i am new to Postgres.

Ram

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:20 AM, mailto:gp...@free.fr>> wrote:

Hello,

yes, before postgres version 10, you must use an extension such as pg_logical
to build logical replication between master and slave.

For pg_logical, see the following links to help you start :
https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/resources/pglogical/pglogical-docs/
http://bonesmoses.org/2016/10/14/pg-phriday-perfectly-logical/
https://www.depesz.com/2016/11/08/major-version-upgrading-with-minimal-downtime/

Regards
Gilles


- Mail original -
De: "rammohan ganapavarapu" 
mailto:rammohanga...@gmail.com>>
À: gp...@free.fr, 
pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Envoyé: Vendredi 17 Novembre 2017 16:43:57
Objet: Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?



Hi,


I was using pg_basebackup to rebuild slave, so pglogical is not in-built in 
postgres and I have to install?


Thanks



On Nov 17, 2017 12:42 AM, < gp...@free.fr> wrote:



Hello,

How did you create the slave ? with pg_basebackup or via rsync ?
In any case, the slave MUST have been built with a backup/rsync made AFTER the 
master have been restarted when you changed
wal_level to logical.

Note, that you did so far, set wal_level=logical, is just a prerequisite to use 
logical replication.
After that, you need a tool which will extract the changes in the WALs from the 
master and will replay them on the slave.

Such tool is pg_logical : 
https://www.2ndquadrant.com/en/resources/pglogical/


Regards


- Mail original -
De: "rammohan ganapavarapu" < 
rammohanga...@gmail.com>
À: gp...@free.fr, 
pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 16 Novembre 2017 17:58:42

Objet: Re: [ADMIN] Can master and slave on different PG versions?


From Slave (9.6):


Database cluster state: shut down in recovery

wal_level setting: logical



From master (9.4) :


Database cluster state: in production

Current wal_level setting: logical



Quite frankly i couldn't find proper document on how to set logical replication 
in 9.4, i think i am using pg_logical. All i did was set wal_level to logical 
and add primary_slot_name in recovery.conf. Do i need to install pglogical 
extension? i couldn't find one for amazon linux.






Thanks,
Ram


On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 6:12 AM, < gp...@free.fr> wrote:



Hello again,

can you execute pg_controldata command on both Master and Slave
and check the following properties :
Database cluster state
wal_level setting

Also, if I understand correctly, you want to establish logical replication 
between your 9.4 master
and your 9.6 slave but you don't explain how ? using pg_logical ?

Regards

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[Ramalingam, Sankarakumar]

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Am 20.11.2017 um 19:42 schrieb Ramalingam, Sankarakumar:


Thank you!

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Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Vick Khera]

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly 
auto-files by the filter I have set up. 

> On Nov 20, 2017, at 13:48, Martin Fernau  wrote:
> 
> PLS unsubscribe via https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/
> 
> Today I received dozens of unsubscribe mails, spamming my mail account :-)
> 
> thx
> 
>> Am 20.11.2017 um 19:42 schrieb Ramalingam, Sankarakumar:
>>  
>>  
>> Thank you!
>>  
>> Kumar Ramalingam
>>  
>> From: Zacher, Stacy [mailto:szac...@mcw.edu] 
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Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe

[Natacha . Brosius]

Hi,

Please unsubscribe me to all PostgreSQL mailing lists.

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Le 20 nov. 2017 à 20:02, Vadlamudi, Chandhra 
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Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Tom Lane]

Vick Khera  writes:
> Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being 
> properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. 

Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
There's a summary of the changes at

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

regards, tom lane

RE: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe

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Subject: Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe

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Le 20 nov. 2017 à 20:02, Vadlamudi, Chandhra 
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Re: [GENERAL] postmaster deadlock while logging after syslogger exited

[David Pacheco]

Thanks again for looking at this issue.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Andres Freund  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 2017-11-20 10:13:57 -0800, David Pacheco wrote:
> > I expect what happened is that the syslogger process attempted to
> allocate
> > memory, failed because the system was low, and explicitly exited.  That's
> > consistent with an exited process, no core file generated, and the
> "FATAL"
> > "out
> > of memory" entries in the log I posted.
>
> Well unfortunately we're presumably not going to see output from
> syslogger's death itself, chicken and egg etc.
>


If that's true, I think that's a separate bug.  If a process receives
ENOMEM from an attempt to allocate memory, it can still write out a log
message to the already-open file descriptor indicating that it's exiting
because of that failure.  For all I know, that's what happened here, as
there are FATAL "out of memory" entries in the log.  (I'd be able to tell
for sure if we had configured logging to include pids in the log messages.)


> Tom Lane wrote:
> > > Hm, so that's another angle David didn't report on: is it possible that
> > > his workload could have resulted in a very large volume of incomplete
> > > in-progress log messages?
> >
> > Yes.  I mentioned in my Nov 6 mail that large log messages over a
> > short period appear to have been a major contributing factor:
>
> So it's actually quite possible that syslogger did use a fair amount of
> memory. Could you show its memory usage, just via ps?
>


I don't have information from the problematic case because the process had
already exited.  Right now, for the same database (actually a different
instance, because this incident triggered a failover):

$ ps -opid,rss,vsz,args -p 37627
  PID  RSS  VSZ COMMAND
37627 2980 14968 /opt/postgresql/9.2.4/bin/postgres -D /manatee/pg/data

I'm not sure what we can infer from that, as this is a different system,
and the workload that generates the very large query strings only runs
occasionally.  Those strings are also not logged unless something's gone
wrong.


> This is a critical point.  As far as I can tell, all that's necessary
> > for this deadlock to occur is:
> >
> > - the syslogger is unable to make forward progress (e.g., because it
> > segfaulted)
>
> This specific case I don't care that much about, but ...



I understand if the community isn't interested in fixing this case if other
users aren't seeing it much, but surely it's still a bug that this unusual
case can result in a deadlock?

-- Dave

Re: [GENERAL] postmaster deadlock while logging after syslogger exited

[Andres Freund]

Hi,

On 2017-11-20 11:12:08 -0800, David Pacheco wrote:
> > > This is a critical point.  As far as I can tell, all that's necessary
> > > for this deadlock to occur is:
> > >
> > > - the syslogger is unable to make forward progress (e.g., because it
> > > segfaulted)
> >
> > This specific case I don't care that much about, but ...

> I understand if the community isn't interested in fixing this case if other
> users aren't seeing it much, but surely it's still a bug that this unusual
> case can result in a deadlock?

I care about the deadlock issue if triggered by out of memory
cases. That's something that can be expected during operation. Being
fully resistant against segfaults in arbitrary places however is not
unlikely to introduce more bugs than cases where it saves the day.

Greetings,

Andres Freund

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Vick Khera]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Vick Khera  writes:
> > Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being
> properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.
>
> Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
> There's a summary of the changes at
>

Thanks, Tom. I see it now :)

I wonder why there was such a rush of unsubscribe requests following the
change... maybe people were filtering it instead of unsubscribing before.

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 11:11 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Vick Khera  writes:

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly 
auto-files by the filter I have set up.

Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
There's a summary of the changes at


I certainly didn't. It is rather difficult for people with day lives 
that do not revolve around postgresql.org to keep up with the large 
amount of traffic that comes from the lists.




https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.


This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration not the 
user wondering why they are currently getting spammed because their 
filters no longer work.


Thanks,

JD

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* Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Joshua D. Drake 
wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 11:11 AM, Tom Lane wrote:
>
>> Vick Khera  writes:
>>
>>> Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being
>>> properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.
>>>
>> Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
>> There's a summary of the changes at
>>
>
> I certainly didn't. It is rather difficult for people with day lives that
> do not revolve around postgresql.org to keep up with the large amount of
> traffic that comes from the lists.


Which is why the extra email was sent *after* the migration, to make sure
it would be the first one *not* hitting peoples filters, and thus have a
chance of being read even if the others weren't.



> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce
>>
>> Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending
>> "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
>> except to annoy the rest of the list membership.
>>
>
> This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration not the
> user wondering why they are currently getting spammed because their filters
> no longer work.
>

So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we have
more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those changes
without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

unsubscribe

[Ronny Abraham]

Best regards,
Ronny Abraham

From: Pedro Antonio [mailto:pedro.osp...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:22 PM
To: Rasha Osman
Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: unsubscribe


El 20/11/2017 1:20 p.m., "Rasha Osman" 
mailto:rash...@hotmail.com>> escribió:




From: Yang, Xiaoguang mailto:y...@lanl.gov>>
Sent: 20 November 2017 18:16
To: 
pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: unsubscribe






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Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Alban Hertroys]

> On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:11, Tom Lane  wrote:
> 
> Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending
> "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
> except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

I imagine that some people might think along the lines of: "Annoy them enough, 
and someone will do something about it".

And they could be right too, as no doubt some subscribers might figure that 
sending an auto-reply to any unsubscribe message to the list to the person in 
question - perhaps with an explanation of how to unsubscribe properly - would 
make that person use the correct method for unsubscribing rather sooner than 
later.

Please, as tempting as that sounds, be gentle to the list server and do not do 
that.

Alban Hertroys
--
If you can't see the forest for the trees,
cut the trees and you'll find there is no forest.

RE: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Mengxuan Xia]

A common feature in modern Email client is to allow users to unsubscribe in one 
line. This works by sending a email titled "unsubscribe" to the listserv, which 
most listserv these days are able to understand and unsubscribe the user.

-Original Message-
From: Alban Hertroys [mailto:haram...@gmail.com] 
Sent: November 20, 2017 2:41 PM
To: Tom Lane 
Cc: Vick Khera ; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe


> On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:11, Tom Lane  wrote:
> 
> Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending 
> "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything except 
> to annoy the rest of the list membership.

I imagine that some people might think along the lines of: "Annoy them enough, 
and someone will do something about it".

And they could be right too, as no doubt some subscribers might figure that 
sending an auto-reply to any unsubscribe message to the list to the person in 
question - perhaps with an explanation of how to unsubscribe properly - would 
make that person use the correct method for unsubscribing rather sooner than 
later.

Please, as tempting as that sounds, be gentle to the list server and do not do 
that.

Alban Hertroys
--
If you can't see the forest for the trees, cut the trees and you'll find there 
is no forest.

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:


https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce


Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.


This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration
not the user wondering why they are currently getting spammed
because their filters no longer work.


So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we 
have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those 
changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..


I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people 
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that big 
of a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer 
that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one 
thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that 
says:


The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this 
page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.


And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

Thanks,

JD

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
* Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *

unsubscribe

[Ibram Remzi]

Please unsubscribe me from the list.

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:


So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that 
we have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make 
those changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to 
hear it..


I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people 
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that 
big of a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a 
footer that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. 
Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time 
period) that says:


The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see 
this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.


And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?


I would also note that removing the ability to unsubscribe in an 
standard fashion is rather user unfriendly. Although many spammers 
require that you go to a website, we rarely (I have never seen it) have 
to log in to unsubscribe from a list. If you add that most people and 
especially people that are on this list are going to be used to using 
email to subscribe/unsubscribe...


Thanks,

JD



Thanks,

JD



--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
* Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Tom Lane]

"Joshua D. Drake"  writes:
> On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer 
> that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one 
> thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that 
> says:
> The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this 
> page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.
> And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified
as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
can't mangle the Subject: line.

In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
buttons.  Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
mail agents that don't handle that.

regards, tom lane

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Joshua D. Drake 
wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>>
>> So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we
>>> have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those
>>> changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..
>>>
>>
>> I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people
>> this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that big of
>> a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer that
>> tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one thing that
>> could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that says:
>>
>> The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this
>> page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.
>>
>> And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?
>>
>
> I would also note that removing the ability to unsubscribe in an standard
> fashion is rather user unfriendly. Although many spammers require that you
> go to a website, we rarely (I have never seen it) have to log in to
> unsubscribe from a list. If you add that most people and especially people
> that are on this list are going to be used to using email to
> subscribe/unsubscribe...
>

Right. This is why you can send an emtil to say
pgsql-general-unsubscr...@lists.postgresql.org to unsubscribe. You can also
click the unsubscribe link that's in the list headers, which also does not
require you to log in - you just have to click the confirmation button.

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote:

Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified
as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
can't mangle the Subject: line.


Ugh, o.k.

In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
buttons.  Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
mail agents that don't handle that.


I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are using. I 
can't find where these would work to unsubscribe.


Well this is a pain for everyone it seems.

JD

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
* Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *

Unsubscribe

[Marek Przywara]

Please unsubscribe me from all PostgreSQL mailing lists.

Best regards,

Marek Przywara

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter]

Em 20/11/2017 17:45, Joshua D. Drake escreveu:

On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:


    https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce


    Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  
Sending

    "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
    except to annoy the rest of the list membership.


    This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration
    not the user wondering why they are currently getting spammed
    because their filters no longer work.


So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that 
we have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make 
those changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to 
hear it..


I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people 
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that 
big of a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a 
footer that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. 
Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time 
period) that says:


The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see 
this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.


And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

Thanks,

JD

I've been affected also, in a minor way, because I used to receive 
digest  2 or 3 times a day, and now I'm receiving every e-mail again.

This is, at least, annoying.
would be better to keep the user options when migrating from one 
software to another.


Regards,

Edson

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Tom Lane]

Magnus Hagander  writes:
> Right. This is why you can send an emtil to say
> pgsql-general-unsubscr...@lists.postgresql.org to unsubscribe.

Oh?  First I've heard of that, and I do not see it mentioned on the
PGLister_Announce wiki page.  It definitely should be.

regards, tom lane

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time 
period) that says:


The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see 
this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters. 


vast majority of users never see the full headers, they just see From, 
To, Date, Subject, and everything else is hidden.  on a phone or a web 
mail system like gmail, its very hard to see that stuff.



--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 11:44 AM, Mengxuan Xia wrote:

A common feature in modern Email client is to allow users to unsubscribe in one line. 
This works by sending a email titled "unsubscribe" to the listserv, which most 
listserv these days are able to understand and unsubscribe the user.



thats a feature of many email list SERVERS, not the email clients.  
Mailman in particular looks for the major command keywords in the first 
few lines of the email, and will respond to them, even if they are sent 
to the regular list address instead of the command address.




--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 12:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are using. 
I can't find where these would work to unsubscribe. 


In Thunderbird, ctrl-U shows the full headers, but the List-Unsubscribe 
links are NOT shown as hotlinks, so you have to copy/paste them to a 
browser.




--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake 
wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
>> In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified
>> as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
>> can't mangle the Subject: line.
>>
>
> Ugh, o.k.
>
>> In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
>> mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
>> buttons.  Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
>> mail agents that don't handle that.
>>
>
> I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are using. I
> can't find where these would work to unsubscribe.
>

Not even remotely. People use gmail. See https://blog.hagander.net/
mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/.

And gmail does automatically show an unsubscribe link on these mails. See
attached screenshot for the mail from Jonathan earlier today as an example.

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Magnus Hagander  writes:
> > Right. This is why you can send an emtil to say
> > pgsql-general-unsubscr...@lists.postgresql.org to unsubscribe.
>
> Oh?  First I've heard of that, and I do not see it mentioned on the
> PGLister_Announce wiki page.  It definitely should be.
>

Yeah, that's clearly an oversight on the wiki page.

We also try to trap the word unsubscribe in the beginning of the body to
moderate those. But that one misses a lot of combinations, because we don't
want to get stuck in the same situation as the old mj2 which captured way
too much.

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Ben Coleman]

On 11/20/2017 09:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
> 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
> in one way or another.

I note the conspicuous absence of pgsql-annou...@postgresql.org in the
lists the Before email was sent to.  Can I assume that that list
continues under the old regime?

Ben
-- 
Ben Coleman  
CTO, Accelerated Design, Inc.
(678) 337-8899



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Tom Lane]

Ben Coleman  writes:
> On 11/20/2017 09:45 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
>> This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
>> 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
>> in one way or another.

> I note the conspicuous absence of pgsql-annou...@postgresql.org in the
> lists the Before email was sent to.  Can I assume that that list
> continues under the old regime?

It's scheduled to be migrated next week.

regards, tom lane

unsubcribe

[Ricardo Hiroshi Sakamoto]

 unsubcribe ricardohiroshisakam...@yahoo.com.brRicardo Hiroshi Sakamoto

Re: Unsubscribe

[CLAUDIO LIVIO CANDIANI]

Please unsubscribe me from all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
Best regards,
Claudio

2017-11-20 18:07 GMT-02:00 Marek Przywara :

> Please unsubscribe me from all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marek Przywara
>

RE: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Leavitt, Ted]

Vick,
  I thought it was just me.  Yes, the sender changed:

pgsql-general-ow...@postgresql.org 
-> pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org

I have updated my rules accordingly.

-Ted

From: Vick Khera [mailto:vi...@khera.org]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:58 AM
To: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly 
auto-files by the filter I have set up.

On Nov 20, 2017, at 13:48, Martin Fernau 
mailto:martin.fer...@fernausoft.de>> wrote:
PLS unsubscribe via 
https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/

Today I received dozens of unsubscribe mails, spamming my mail account :-)

thx
Am 20.11.2017 um 19:42 schrieb Ramalingam, Sankarakumar:


Thank you!

Kumar Ramalingam

From: Zacher, Stacy [mailto:szac...@mcw.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:56 PM
To: 
pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: unsubscribe



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Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter]

Em 20/11/2017 18:07, Joshua D. Drake escreveu:

On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote:

Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified
as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
can't mangle the Subject: line.


Ugh, o.k.

In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
buttons.  Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
mail agents that don't handle that.


I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are using. 
I can't find where these would work to unsubscribe.


Well this is a pain for everyone it seems.

JD

Seems that Thunderbird (latest stable version) doesn't understand the 
unsubscribe header.

Or, perhaps, it is wrong.

Regards,

Edson

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 12:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote:


Not even remotely. People use gmail. See 
https://blog.hagander.net/mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/ 
.


And gmail does automatically show an unsubscribe link on these mails. 
See attached screenshot for the mail from Jonathan earlier today as an 
example.


Well Thunderbird is #2 ;) but yes I am aware that Gmail has the 
unsubscribe feature.


Thanks!

JD


--
Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Michael Nolan]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Stephen Frost  wrote:

>
> This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
> 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
> in one way or another.
>

Is there more information available about PGLister somewhere, ie, is this a
list package that other people running mailing lists might be able to use?
A net search for "PGLister" doesn't find much yet.
--
Mike Nolan

Re: Unsubscribe

[Jimmy Griffin]

Me as well. Thanks

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Marek Przywara 
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 3:07:49 PM
To: pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org; 
pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
Subject: Unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me from all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
Best regards,
Marek Przywara

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 12:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
Not even remotely. People use gmail. See 
https://blog.hagander.net/mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/ 
.



its rather hard to tell some of those colors apart on my monitor.

Sigh, not surprised about gmail, its amazing how many .com's and .org's 
use it now.  I'm not at ALL a fan of how the web client handles a bunch 
of stuff like replies, & hiding your own messages from yourself.    I 
mostly prefer to use gmail as an imap server w/ thunderbird.



--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:49 PM, John R Pierce  wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 12:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>
> Not even remotely. People use gmail. See https://blog.hagander.net/
> mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/.
>
>
> its rather hard to tell some of those colors apart on my monitor.
>
> Sigh, not surprised about gmail, its amazing how many .com's and .org's
> use it now.  I'm not at ALL a fan of how the web client handles a bunch of
> stuff like replies, & hiding your own messages from yourself.I mostly
> prefer to use gmail as an imap server w/ thunderbird.
>
>
>
One of the beauties of using email rather than most other locked-in
proprietary alternatives that people keep saying should replace it -- each
subscriber can pick whichever client they prefer...


-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 12:49 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
Sigh, not surprised about gmail, its amazing how many .com's and 
.org's use it now.  I'm not at ALL a fan of how the web client handles 
a bunch of stuff like replies, & hiding your own messages from yourself. 


oh and my biggest gripe, gmail seems to ignore the References header AND 
replies often don't seem to have that header, so if you're using a 
traditional threaded email client like Thunderbird, replies from gmail 
users don't seem to get threaded correctly and show up as new 
threads.    gmail itself seems to thread purely based on Subject.



--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

declarative partition by list, "other values" syntax

[legrand legrand]

Hello,

I was trying to create a partitionned table by list,
that has on special partition for "other values"

for exemple
create table wiki_data_part(
   category varchar(20),
   tim_id bigint,
   pag_id bigint,
   requests int,
   size bigint
) 
PARTITION BY LIST (category );

CREATE TABLE wiki_data_part_a PARTITION OF wiki_data_part
FOR VALUES IN ('ang.q','ace.mw', ...);

CREATE TABLE wiki_data_part_b PARTITION OF wiki_data_part
FOR VALUES IN ('bs.s','bh.mw','bar','br.d', ...);

How could I create a partition containing the other values (like MINVALUE,
MAXVALUE for range partition) ?

CREATE TABLE wiki_data_part_others PARTITION OF wiki_data_part
FOR VALUES IN (others);

could not find it in doc
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/10/static/sql-createtable.html

Thanks in advance
Regards
PAscal




--
Sent from: http://www.postgresql-archive.org/PostgreSQL-general-f1843780.html

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Alvaro Herrera]

Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter wrote:

> I've been affected also, in a minor way, because I used to receive digest  2
> or 3 times a day, and now I'm receiving every e-mail again.
> This is, at least, annoying.
> would be better to keep the user options when migrating from one software to
> another.

Digests as a feature were considered for pglister and ultimately
rejected.  There is no value in digest nowadays: if you don't want the
emails to show up in your inbox individually, filter them to another
folder.  They impact to the rest of the subscribers too, when those
subscribed to the digest reply to it breaking all threads and quoting.
Also, they would be more work and resources to implement.

-- 
Álvaro Herrerahttps://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:58 PM, John R Pierce  wrote:

> On 11/20/2017 12:49 PM, John R Pierce wrote:
>
>> Sigh, not surprised about gmail, its amazing how many .com's and .org's
>> use it now.  I'm not at ALL a fan of how the web client handles a bunch of
>> stuff like replies, & hiding your own messages from yourself.
>>
>
> oh and my biggest gripe, gmail seems to ignore the References header AND
> replies often don't seem to have that header, so if you're using a
> traditional threaded email client like Thunderbird, replies from gmail
> users don't seem to get threaded correctly and show up as new threads.
> gmail itself seems to thread purely based on Subject.


If people just use the reply feature in gmail it does set the References
header properly. It breaks threads intentionally if people edit the subject
(which you have to click a separate button to do). But if people hit the
reply buttons, the headers are correct. (I did quite a bit of analysis on
that when building the new list archives system a while ago). Many other
MUAs have much bigger problems -- but even Outlook and the Microsoft web
based ones do a decent job today. They certainly didn't use to do that...

And it's internal threading is way more complex than just using subject.
But the inability to override how it does that is definitely one of my
biggest gripes about gmail. But that only affects the user of gmail, not
the others on the list. (Unlike what broken references headers would do)

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Magnus Hagander]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Michael Nolan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Stephen Frost  wrote:
>
>>
>> This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
>> 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
>> in one way or another.
>>
>
> Is there more information available about PGLister somewhere, ie, is this
> a list package that other people running mailing lists might be able to
> use?  A net search for "PGLister" doesn't find much yet.
>
>
Hi!

Please track the thread at
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CABUevEw7Vs9Hpe-9dRWPwXDa4sPuE71BDNk2X8_UOQ%3Dhvf1tnA%40mail.gmail.com
for information on that. TL/DR version is that right now it's in a closed
repo, but it's scheduled to be opened as soon as somebody has had the time
to go through it and make sure we're not accidentally leaking something
that shouldn't be leaked.

-- 
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Unsubscribe

[Juan Camilo Marín]

Please unsubscribe me from all PostgreSQL mailing lists

Unsubscribe

[Jeferson Kasper]

Please unsubscribe me from all PostgreSQL mailing lists

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Rob Sargent]

Kinda looking like you should have unsubscribed everybody and those of 
us that would miss the feed would re-connect.



On 11/20/2017 02:09 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Michael Nolan > wrote:




On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Stephen Frost mailto:sfr...@snowman.net>> wrote:


This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software
known as
'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this
mailing list
in one way or another.


Is there more information available about PGLister somewhere, ie,
is this a list package that other people running mailing lists
might be able to use?  A net search for "PGLister" doesn't find
much yet.


Hi!

Please track the thread at 
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CABUevEw7Vs9Hpe-9dRWPwXDa4sPuE71BDNk2X8_UOQ%3Dhvf1tnA%40mail.gmail.com 
for information on that. TL/DR version is that right now it's in a 
closed repo, but it's scheduled to be opened as soon as somebody has 
had the time to go through it and make sure we're not accidentally 
leaking something that shouldn't be leaked.


--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 

Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe

[Bennett Hitchcox-Lain]

Yeah, that link is pretty much useless... The go to this other link for
what you want, but then go to another link, and login, then go to. Why
can I just put in my email and click unsubscribe.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017, 11:11 AM Jaimi McEntire 
wrote:

> To all wanting to unsubscribe. Go here to do it and quit flooding our mail
> boxes:
>
>
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/list/
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Natacha.Brosius 
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 1:08:41 PM
> *To:* Vadlamudi, Chandhra
> *Cc:* pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org;
> pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
> *Subject:* Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe
>
> Hi,
>
> Please unsubscribe me to all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
>
>
>
>  Thanks and best regard
>
>
> Natacha Brosius
>
> Le 20 nov. 2017 à 20:02, Vadlamudi, Chandhra <
> chandhra.vadlam...@blueshieldca.com> a écrit :
>
> I tried multiple ways to remove myself from groups but no luck.
>
> Please remove me from groups and communication lists.
>
>
>
> *From:* MARTIN PAREDES [mailto:map...@hotmail.com ]
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 10:58 AM
> *To:* pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org;
> pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
> *Subject:* Unsubscribe
>
>
>
> ** BSCA security warning: Do not click links or trust the content unless
> you expected this email and trust the sender – This email originated
> outside of Blue Shield. **
>
> Please unsubscribe me to all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ING. MARTIN PAREDES DOMINGUEZ
>   *MAPASAC & MAPASOFT   ERP-SOFTWARE-DEVELOPER*
>   FREELANCE SENIOR DEVELOPER
>   MAPASAC SISTEMAS ADMINISTRATIVOS COMERCIALES
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>
>
>
>
>

RE: Migration to PGLister - After

[Haiming Zhang]

Unsubscribe me please. Thank you.





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Haiming Zhang | Engineer | Redflex
IM haiming.zh...@redflex.com.au
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www.redflex.com


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From: Rob Sargent [mailto:robjsarg...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 November 2017 8:25 AM
To: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Migration to PGLister - After


Kinda looking like you should have unsubscribed everybody and those of us that 
would miss the feed would re-connect.

On 11/20/2017 02:09 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Michael Nolan 
mailto:htf...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Stephen Frost 
mailto:sfr...@snowman.net>> wrote:

This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
in one way or another.

Is there more information available about PGLister somewhere, ie, is this a 
list package that other people running mailing lists might be able to use?  A 
net search for "PGLister" doesn't find much yet.


Hi!

Please track the thread at 
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CABUevEw7Vs9Hpe-9dRWPwXDa4sPuE71BDNk2X8_UOQ%3Dhvf1tnA%40mail.gmail.com
 for information on that. TL/DR version is that right now it's in a closed 
repo, but it's scheduled to be opened as soon as somebody has had the time to 
go through it and make sure we're not accidentally leaking something that 
shouldn't be leaked.

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/

Re: Migration to PGLister - After

[Stephen Frost]

Mike,

* Michael Nolan (htf...@gmail.com) wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Stephen Frost  wrote:
> > This list has now been migrated to new mailing list software known as
> > 'PGLister'.  This migration will impact all users of this mailing list
> > in one way or another.
> 
> Is there more information available about PGLister somewhere, ie, is this a
> list package that other people running mailing lists might be able to use?
> A net search for "PGLister" doesn't find much yet.

It's open source and we'll open the git tree for it soon, but it's tied
into our community authentication system, so it's not like it's
something that would be easy to plug-n-play elsewhere.

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe

[Keith]

The link to this simple form below is right at the top of the other link
where it says "How to Subscribe or Unsubscribe, Fill out this form."

https://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/subscribe/





On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Bennett Hitchcox-Lain 
wrote:

> Yeah, that link is pretty much useless... The go to this other link for
> what you want, but then go to another link, and login, then go to. Why
> can I just put in my email and click unsubscribe.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017, 11:11 AM Jaimi McEntire 
> wrote:
>
>> To all wanting to unsubscribe. Go here to do it and quit flooding our
>> mail boxes:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.postgresql.org/list/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Natacha.Brosius 
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 1:08:41 PM
>> *To:* Vadlamudi, Chandhra
>> *Cc:* pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org;
>> pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Please unsubscribe me to all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Thanks and best regard
>>
>>
>> Natacha Brosius
>>
>> Le 20 nov. 2017 à 20:02, Vadlamudi, Chandhra > blueshieldca.com> a écrit :
>>
>> I tried multiple ways to remove myself from groups but no luck.
>>
>> Please remove me from groups and communication lists.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* MARTIN PAREDES [mailto:map...@hotmail.com ]
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2017 10:58 AM
>> *To:* pgsql-ad...@postgresql.org; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org;
>> pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
>> *Subject:* Unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> ** BSCA security warning: Do not click links or trust the content unless
>> you expected this email and trust the sender – This email originated
>> outside of Blue Shield. **
>>
>> Please unsubscribe me to all PostgreSQL mailing lists.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Thanks and best regards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   ING. MARTIN PAREDES DOMINGUEZ
>>   *MAPASAC & MAPASOFT   ERP-SOFTWARE-DEVELOPER*
>>   FREELANCE SENIOR DEVELOPER
>>   MAPASAC SISTEMAS ADMINISTRATIVOS COMERCIALES
>>   General Escobedo, N.L., Mexico
>>   Tlf: *8182-0393-48*   map...@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Daniel Verite]

Magnus Hagander wrote:

> So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we have
> more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those changes
> without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..

I guess it's a bit late at this point, but in theory keeping the same
List-Id headers as before may help with how many people have to
change their filters.
Using lists.postgresql.org as the new domain was explained
in the announce, but it's not clear why List-Id had to follow
the other List-* fields.
Unless it was the reason mentioned in the last sentence below.

Quoting RFC-2919:

4. Persistence of List Identifiers

   Although the list identifier MAY be changed by the mailing list
   administrator this is not desirable.  (Note that there is no
   disadvantage to changing the description portion of the List-Id
   header.)  A MUA may not recognize the change to the list identifier
   because the MUA SHOULD treat a different list identifier as a
   different list.  As such the mailing list administrator SHOULD avoid
   changing the list identifier even when the host serving the list
   changes.  On the other hand, transitioning from an informal
   unmanaged-list-id-namespace to a domain namespace is an
   acceptable reason to change the list identifier.


Best regards,
-- 
Daniel Vérité
PostgreSQL-powered mailer: http://www.manitou-mail.org
Twitter: @DanielVerite

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings,

* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:
> In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
> mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
> buttons.  Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
> mail agents that don't handle that.

Quite a few people have been using that capability with their MUAs very
successfully.  Magnus just mentioned we've had some 200 or so individual
unsubscribes done that way (note that wasn't distinct addresses but
unsubscribes across all lists).

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: [MESSAGE PUBLICITAIRE- VIGILANCE] RE: Unsubscribe

[John R Pierce]

On 11/20/2017 1:42 PM, Keith wrote:
The link to this simple form below is right at the top of the other 
link where it says "How to Subscribe or Unsubscribe, Fill out this form."


https://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/subscribe/



that form is for the legacy system.  for the new system, it appears you 
must have an postgres community account to unsubscribe, at least per 
https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/



*HOWEVER*, there's a simpler way.   Do whatever your email program 
requires to view full headers, in my case its 'ctrl-U' while viewing a 
message, and find the List-Unsubscribe:  header, copy/paste that link to 
your browser, and voila, away you go.



--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Test 501, please don't reply

[Steve Litt]

-- 
SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust

Re: Test 501, please don't reply

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings, Steve, and everyone,

Located at https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/ is a little button just
to the right of each list which you are subscribed to that says
"Sent test mail."  This will send an email, just to you, with the exact
headers as the regular emails that are sent through the system.

Please use that to check that your filters have been set up correctly
for catching email and do *not* send test emails to this list.

Steve, your "test" email went to 3,717 individuals.  Please don't do
that again.

Thanks!

Stephen


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Procmail recipe for new setup

[Steve Litt]

Hi all,

The following procmail recipe works for me:

===
:0:
* ^(To|Cc).*pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
.Postgres/
===

In the preceding, the slash at the end of the destination (.Postgres)
is because Procmail is inserting the mail into a maildir (the maildir
for my local Dovecot IMAP server). I use the (To|Cc) vocabulary instead
of something like a list-id email heading to accommodate those who for
some reason email me and copy the list, or email the list and copy me.
(To|Cc) seems to work under all conditions.

Any recipes based on [GENERAL] being in the subject have stopped
working because [GENERAL] is no longer in the subject.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust

Re: Procmail recipe for new setup

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 20 Nov 2017, Steve Litt wrote:


The following procmail recipe works for me:

===
:0:
* ^(To|Cc).*pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
.Postgres/
===


Hi, Steve!

  Here's an alternative recipe:

:0:
* ^TO_.*pgsql-general@(lists\.)?postgresql.org
POSTGRES

The TO_(with no space after it) captures CCs too, and the regex (lists\.)?
says accept 0 (zero) or 1 (one) of the lists prefix. I use mbox not maildir
so POSTGRES is the name of the file in ~/mail/.

Regards,

Rich

Re: Procmail recipe for new setup

[Joshua D. Drake]

On 11/20/2017 02:10 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

Hi all,

The following procmail recipe works for me:

===
:0:
* ^(To|Cc).*pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
.Postgres/
===


You may want to use TO ... See here:

https://www.mhonarc.org/archive/html/procmail/1998-04/msg00093.html


Thanks,

JD

--

Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
* Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own.   *

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Piotr Stefaniak]

On 2017-11-20 21:03, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Joshua D. Drake"  writes:
>> On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>> One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer that
>> tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one 
>> thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period)
>> that says:
>> The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see
>> this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and
>> filters. And then after the temporary time period that becomes a
>> footer?
> 
> Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug. In
> order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified 
> as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we 
> can't mangle the Subject: line.
I don't miss the footers, but see RFC 6376, "5.3.1. Body Length Limits". 
Two fragments quoted are copied below:

> A body length count MAY be specified to limit the signature 
> calculation to an initial prefix of the body text, measured in 
> octets. If the body length count is not specified, the entire message
> body is signed.

> INFORMATIVE RATIONALE: This capability is provided because it is very
> common for mailing lists to add trailers to messages (e.g., 
> instructions on how to get off the list). Until those messages are
> also signed, the body length count is a useful tool for the Verifier
> since it can, as a matter of policy, accept messages having valid
> signatures with extraneous data.

Re: Procmail recipe for new setup

[Piotr Stefaniak]

On 2017-11-20 23:10, Steve Litt wrote:

> The following procmail recipe works for me:

I use this:

:0
* ^List-Id: \/.*
{
 :0
 * $MATCH ?? [<]+\/.*[^>]+
 $MATCH/

 :0
 $MATCH/
}

Re: Procmail recipe for new setup

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings Piotr,

* Piotr Stefaniak (postg...@piotr-stefaniak.me) wrote:
> On 2017-11-20 23:10, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> > The following procmail recipe works for me:
> 
> I use this:
> 
> :0
> * ^List-Id: \/.*
> {
>  :0
>  * $MATCH ?? [<]+\/.*[^>]+
>  $MATCH/
> 
>  :0
>  $MATCH/
> }

I would caution against using this kind of expansion as it may allow
malicious attackers to generate all kinds of not-nice stuff in your mail
directories.

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: Procmail recipe for new setup

[Stephen Frost]

Greetings Rich, all,

* Rich Shepard (rshep...@appl-ecosys.com) wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2017, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> >The following procmail recipe works for me:
> >
> >===
> >:0:
> >* ^(To|Cc).*pgsql-gene...@postgresql.org
> >.Postgres/
> >===
> 
> Hi, Steve!
> 
>   Here's an alternative recipe:
> 
> :0:
> * ^TO_.*pgsql-general@(lists\.)?postgresql.org
> POSTGRES
> 
> The TO_(with no space after it) captures CCs too, and the regex (lists\.)?
> says accept 0 (zero) or 1 (one) of the lists prefix. I use mbox not maildir
> so POSTGRES is the name of the file in ~/mail/.

Yes, this is a good recipe to use, particularly as we will be,
eventually, encouraging more use of the 'lists.postgresql.org'
subdomain in the future, and email is already being accepted for the
lists through it.

Thanks!

Stephen


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Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Steve Atkins]

> On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Piotr Stefaniak  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2017-11-20 21:03, Tom Lane wrote:
>> "Joshua D. Drake"  writes:
>>> On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>>> One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer that
>>> tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one 
>>> thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period)
>>> that says:
>>> The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see
>>> this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and
>>> filters. And then after the temporary time period that becomes a
>>> footer?
>> 
>> Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug. In
>> order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified 
>> as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we 
>> can't mangle the Subject: line.
> I don't miss the footers, but see RFC 6376, "5.3.1. Body Length Limits". 
> Two fragments quoted are copied below:

That's poor practice, for several reasons - replay attacks with added content
and it being an extremely rare practice that's likely to trigger bugs in DKIM
validation are two. The latter is the much bigger deal.

It also doesn't help much for most MIME encoded mail (including base64
encoded plain text, like the mail I'm replying to).

Pretending those paragraphs aren't there is the right thing to do.

Cheers,
  Steve



> 
>> A body length count MAY be specified to limit the signature 
>> calculation to an initial prefix of the body text, measured in 
>> octets. If the body length count is not specified, the entire message
>> body is signed.
> 
>> INFORMATIVE RATIONALE: This capability is provided because it is very
>> common for mailing lists to add trailers to messages (e.g., 
>> instructions on how to get off the list). Until those messages are
>> also signed, the body length count is a useful tool for the Verifier
>> since it can, as a matter of policy, accept messages having valid
>> signatures with extraneous data.

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Jan Claeys]

On Mon, 2017-11-20 at 18:12 -0200, Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter
wrote:
> Seems that Thunderbird (latest stable version) doesn't understand
> the unsubscribe header.
> Or, perhaps, it is wrong.

Or maybe you need an addon.


-- 
Jan Claeys

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Gavin Flower]

On 21/11/17 09:20, Magnus Hagander wrote:
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote:


On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote:

Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming
classified
as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
can't mangle the Subject: line.


Ugh, o.k.

In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now
included in
mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
buttons.  Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
mail agents that don't handle that.


I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are
using. I can't find where these would work to unsubscribe.


Not even remotely. People use gmail. See 
https://blog.hagander.net/mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/ 
.


And gmail does automatically show an unsubscribe link on these mails. 
See attached screenshot for the mail from Jonathan earlier today as an 
example.


--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ 
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ 


Not everyone uses gmail!

I would never recommend it use for either for personal or business use - 
as Googol scans it for commercial [purposes.



Cheers,
Gavin

Re: unsubscribe

[Amila Jayasooriya]

Please unsubscribe me from the list.

Thanks and Regards
 Amila Jayasooriya

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Ibram Remzi  wrote:

> Please unsubscribe me from the list.
>

Re: unsubscribe

[Danyelle Davis]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Amila Jayasooriya <
amilajayasoor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Please unsubscribe me from the list.
>
> Thanks and Regards
>  Amila Jayasooriya
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Ibram Remzi 
> wrote:
>
>> Please unsubscribe me from the list.
>>
>> Please look at the listserv for options on how to unsub.  Yall are
clogging the list with these.



Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: unsubscribe

[Ryan]

Hi,

All right, so not for lack of trying, I cannot figure out how to
unsubscribe. I've tried three different things, but they've either been
ineffective or result in me getting an automatic email that the attempt
failed. Kindly help? I enjoyed my daily digest of PostgreSQL messages, but
this has been a bit difficult to manage.

Best regards.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Danyelle Davis  wrote:

>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:29 PM, Amila Jayasooriya <
> amilajayasoor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please unsubscribe me from the list.
>>
>> Thanks and Regards
>>  Amila Jayasooriya
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Ibram Remzi 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please unsubscribe me from the list.
>>>
>>> Please look at the listserv for options on how to unsub.  Yall are
> clogging the list with these.
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_4396185798928146462_m_941694909827362166_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

[Carl Karsten]

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:

> Vick Khera  writes:
> > Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being
> properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.
>
> Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
> There's a summary of the changes at
>
> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce
>
> Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending
> "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
> except to annoy the rest of the list membership.
>


It might get you a video full of foul language  :)

https://youtu.be/eC9rmsI7dnw?t=1m42s


>
> regards, tom lane
>
>


-- 
Carl K