Re: JWZ on s/Java/Perl/
gentlemen (a small liberty, i admit) -
all of this *pointless* debate could be set aside - if all of you
would just renounce perl - and adopt ruby as your language
it's why larry has shut himself up in silence - feigning illness:
*true (not bolted-on) oo language
*modern (not post-modern) gc
*clean (not demented) syntax
*easy (not forced) portability
*embed into html, ala php
*not "expert friendly"
*no god complex
*no high priests
*easy to learn
*newbies welcome...
don't worry, i don't expect you to change languages (today!)
> sub test {
> my($foo, $bar, %baz);
> ...
> return \%baz;
> }
>> are we considering to deprecate this type of bad style?
> What bad style?
seriously, bad style? if this were an example of bad style,
cpan would crumble to cyber-dust... but would it matter..?
#! -w
my $perl = $bad->$style; # is there any other kind of perl?
print "$perl: the queen of write-only/non-profit languages";
>> Speaking of which, do any of the high priests know when
>> Larry might come down off the mountain? Any day now
>> the true believers are going to melt down their copies of
>> Camel III and cast themselves a golden Python.
here you're casting larry as moses, when in fact, perl people
seem to think he's god. anyway, it'd be a golden "c"... i'd say.
cheers!
yaphet
heretics of perl;
--
Re: JWZ on s/Java/Perl/
i think Matz will agree with me... (consider telling dave thomas and andy hunt, too...) "a language author does not a god make" -- a proverb from the days of cobol > On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 12:11:19AM -0800, yaphet jones wrote: > [Ruby] >> *no god complex >> *no high priests > > I'll tell Matz you said that. > > -- > hantai mo hantai aru: > The reverse side also has a reverse side. > -- Japanese proverb so desu ne! nihon go hanashimasuka? subarashii! ja ne! yaphet heretics of perl; --
Re: The binding of "my" (Re: Closures and default lexical-scope
>Johan Vromans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >>As someone else said before me, Perl should not be changed >>Just Because We Can. Aspects which have proven usefulness and >>are deeply engrained in the Perl mindset should not be tampered >>with just because some recent convert finds them un-Algol-like. yet another _example_ of perl's "expert vs. newbie" snobbery. the "perl mindset": it's what's now driving perl toward the unix programming language "dustbin"...by driving "newbies" away. the tchrist (christiansen) said it best, when he described perl5: >>>...an "expert-friendly" language... "mark twain" retorted shortly after with his classic observation: >>>Expert-friendly languages are most often only befriended >>>by experts. >While teaching Perl classes I often encounter people that have a hard >time getting used to the peculiarities _we_ are familiar with. If a >Perl construct does not suffer from a slight change that makes it >easier to accept by new programmers, I think such changes should be >seriously considered. i agree with johan... >After all, the trainees of today are the Perl programmers of the >future. actually, that's a really big assumption: that perl has a future... read eric s. raymond's comments on perl cheers! yaphet heretics of perl; --
Re: The binding of "my" (Re: Closures and default lexical-scope
>On Sat, Feb 17 2001 09:04:54 -0800, Simon Cozens wrote: > >On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:02:08AM -0800, yaphet jones wrote: >> the tchrist (christiansen) said it best, when he described perl5: >>...an "expert-friendly" language... > >And he was right. Perl is *not* deliberately dumbed down, because, >unlike other languages, we do *not* assume our users are dumb. despite all "cyber" appearances to the contrary, i'm one of you - but who? i thought that we assume our users are *lazy* - perl creates meaningless compiler spoon-feeding work for the programmer that smarter languages avoid. some languages - most notably java and the 'c' family create even more useless work (what's your guess, 2x-10x when compared to perl?!). add on the irredeemably ugly and cryptic syntax (you need to be smart...) so i agree 100%. perl programmers are often the most intrinsically bright stars shining in the programming universe - if not, they couldn't use perl! the world desperately needs *more* programmers, if for no other reason to rewrite, replace, or maintain the perl code that's polluting cyberspace! perl is *not* the answer. it was for a time, but no more: it's the wrong way. >That's not to say it's offensively smart, either. :) but it is offensive...and it's damaging the progressive improvement in the application of computer programming (scripting, if you will...) to business. sometimes organisms evolve into supremacy over their ecological niche, just to find that their niche evolves into irrelevance or is replaced entirely. cheers! yaphet heretics of perl; q&a - what's the biologist term for "stable"? hint - ask jhi --
Re: The binding of "my" (Re: Closures and default lexical-scope
>Johan Vromans wrote: >> >> If a Perl construct does not suffer from a slight change that makes >> it easier to accept by new programmers, I think such changes should >> be seriously considered. > >Yes; but the world if full of language [sorry, couldn't resist] >which is optimized (or at least meant to be) for the learner; >Larry wants Perl to be optimized for the programmer. >Unfortunately, to the two optimizations are mostly disjoint. this is completely false when applied to real programming languages. => example 1: php => relatively easy to learn . retains basic perl syntax . less cryptic (but more verbose) . tight integration to databases (mySQL) => relatively easy to master => now the world's #1 scripting language for dynamic web content ;-) => example 2: ruby => relatively easy to learn . simple, elegant syntax . less cryptic without verbosity . adds perl's regular expressions . exploits other languages (c, java, perl...) . in-line modules . tight integration with c => relatively easy to master => now more popular than python in its native japan => now in us and europe - where it will displace perl and python... ;-) qed: you need a new language designer(s), not tired-out god-figures. cheers! yaphet heretics of perl; --
Re: The binding of "my" (Re: Closures and default lexical-scope
>Feeding the troll: careful with the troll talk: remember, your god's favorite book is the "lord of the rings"...chock full of trolls...and hobbits, too! >> => example 2: ruby >> => now more popular than python in its native japan > >Python isn't native to Japan. obviously, nitwit...ruby is the language that's native to japan. we'll chalk that one up to the ambiguous nature of a natural language, like english, as opposed to a contrived language like perl. but, just as trolls can't read, perl people can't spell. ok, i'm packing up my bags and calling it a day...i am happy to have found some *intelligent* (if not particulary pleasant) life on -language in your mr. john porter (sorry, simon...). ;-) where to now? -meta..? where did that *gc* thread ever go! btw - john porter, would you care to explain (off list is okay!) this one comment of yours (please - use specific examples) >> => example 2: ruby > Perplexed by its own idiosyncracies that in the end make > it no more attractive than Perl. i'd actually like to hear your side of it...you impressed me. ;-) cheers! yaphet heretics of perl; next time you guys lose the way, i'll be back to shine a light --
Re: The binding of "my" (Re: Closures and default lexical-scope
gentlemen - gomen nasai! you have my sincere apologies for staying on p6-language so long. i've went and woke david g. up, whose prescription has *obviously* run out. kindly let me know when he's gone back to sleep. (-_-) zzz ja ne! -- yaphet ...python? ...win32? ...really? --
Re: Turning Japanese (was Re: It's Funny. Laugh.)
subarashii! < eigo no kotoba = "wonderful!" > >"Coding in Ruby" to the tune of "Turning Japanese" by The Vapors > with endless apologies to everyone involved. creativity! at last! actually, i'm all smiles (^_^) >I've got your tarball, I've got your tarball >I'm milling over installing it myself there is a self-installing package...for Win32. >Can I get a job? No. perl people *used* to say that about Python! perl people *used* to say that about PHP! perl people *used* to say that about -?! >All the jobs avoid me like a psycho coder all the jobs avoid ya' like a psycho dis-coder >every language is beautiful...in its own way can we take a breather now?! i've got a Perl job that i need to finish ...where's my camel? seriously... monday is perl (tomorrow is php) cheers! yaphet heretics of perl; --
