Re: junctions with given/when

[Ralph Mellor]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 7:27 PM Joseph Brenner  wrote:
>
> Yes, thanks, I'd managed to forget that we had a go-round

OK. Cool. I wasn't sure if it was the same issue (hence my aiui
qualification). It's helpful to hear confirmation you consider this
to be the same issue.

Btw, I'd say it was not only a go-round, but led to Larry's helpful
wrap up of / response to the discussion.

(And inspired me to research smartmatch/junction bugs already
filed in our existing bug queues, and succinctly document my results.)

So, from my perspective, the main thing was that it was a
particularly *productive* go-round.

In addition, although it *almost* stalled there, with no-one
filing an issue, the process by which issues get resolved,
it has now moved on.

If there are aspects that are worrying, it's that an issue
wasn't filed as a consequence of the discussion, and, as
a related concern, when issues *are* filed the quality of
the filing and follow up is troubling.

> I'm actually finding this one profoundly depressing

Hopefully your attention has now moved on to other things,
but in case that wasn't the case, or the underlying thoughts
haven't gone away, and at the risk of me being the one to
bring you back to them, I will continue.

> but I probably shouldn't get into it.

I think it's healthy to get into it, as I note you did. Feelings
need to be aired in your own mind, and shared with others.

First and foremost, I hear you. Feeling profoundly blue about
Raku is like feeling profoundly blue about anything. It sucks.

Unfortunately -- but also *fortunately* -- feelings, unlike thoughts,
are like waves, tides, seasons -- they come and go and there's
nothing that can (nor should) be done to stop them flowing one
way and then the next.

> My thoughts are running along lines like "how is it possible
> something like this is still up-in-the-air at this date?"

Unlike someone expressing their feelings, which doesn't need
to be rationally understood but just is what it is, thoughts are
are different thing.

This summary of your thoughts suggests that, behind your
feeling of depression, was *confusion*. ("How is it possible...?")
I suspect that that's *not* it, but perhaps it is?

If it *was* confusion, then would it be helpful to discuss how
an issue like this still being up in the air is not only very much
possible but is one of thousands in Raku -- as it is in pretty
much all PLs? (Python's issue tracker contains 57,000 bugs
with 7,000 with status "open", and others "pending", "closed
(wontfix)" and so on.)

(Or was the confusion about it apparently being the case that
no issue had been filed?)

If it *wasn't* about confusion, was it instead a sense that,
while it's reasonable that Python and other mature PLs
(used and developed by relatively huge communities) have
many more such issues still outstanding decades after devs
have first encountered them, Raku is supposed to be a new
PL, so shouldn't have long standing bugs?

Or something else?

> "is this language too complex to be implemented cleanly?"

Perhaps it's worth acknowledging that Python, which is
supposed to be "simple", is far more complex to implement
cleanly than Raku.

> and so on.

When thoughts are entrained to a feeling, there's usually no
stopping them. Hopefully you've had a day or two break from
where you were at and that has helped. And/or my email here
has helped. And/or your Raku study group, presuming you do
continue with that. Then again, perhaps not. Maybe thing to do
is to step away from spending time with Raku, at least for a while?

--
love, raiph

Re: Windows tutorial needed (Todd?)

[ToddAndMargo via perl6-users]

On 7/11/21 02:31, Tom Browder wrote:

See https://github.com/Raku/docs  issue #3913.

-Tom (tbrowder)


Hi Tom,

I finally got around to writing your request up.  I will
let you look it over, modify as needed, and place in
the proper location.

Note that I use the term "Perl 6 / Raku".  This is on
purpose, as older installations that need to be removed
may be called Perl 6 and not raku.

The guide is in Open Document Text format (odt).  Note
that the page length has been set to 35 inches, which
will make for an interesting print out.

Sorry for the long wait.

-T

The attachment was bounced by the mailing list.  I am
re-sending without the attachment so the list can see
my write up.  Anyone who wants document, ping me on
the list or write me directly.

Re: Windows tutorial needed (Todd?)

[Tom Browder]

On Sat, Nov 6, 2021 at 18:02 ToddAndMargo  wrote:

> On 7/11/21 02:31, Tom Browder wrote:
> > See https://github.com/Raku/docs  issue
> #3913.
> >
> > -Tom (tbrowder)
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I finally got around to writing your request up.  I will
> let you look it over, modify as needed, and place in
> the proper location.


Thanks, Todd, I’ll take a look. This is very timely since I have a captive
audience (most likely all Windows ppl) at our local library next Saturday
and will be mentioning Raku and Perl.

Blessings,

-Tom

P.S. The doc did make it with your previous email.

>

Re: Windows tutorial needed (Todd?)

[ToddAndMargo via perl6-users]

On 11/6/21 18:12, Tom Browder wrote:
Thanks, Todd, I’ll take a look. This is very timely since I have a 
captive audience (most likely all Windows ppl) at our local library next 
Saturday and will be mentioning Raku and Perl.


Blessings,

-Tom



:-)