Audible and MP3
Hi I'm new to Audible books and am looking for some advice. I gather that the books can be read in Media Player and Real Player. Does this apply to Real Pla;yer on a phone (Nokia 9500) or has there to be some other software or codec available before Audible's format is recognised. Alternatives for listening on a mobile phone or other device using MP3 - are there any? Can the files be converted - is this legal if you're just using your own books which you've downloaded? Thanks in anticipation for any help. Feel free to reply off list if you wish. Gordon McFarlane -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/05 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My first Minidisc upload
thanks so much for that Mike. I will most definitely check this out. Smile Thanks again Shannon - Original Message - From: "Michael Lang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:51 PM Subject: Re: My first Minidisc upload > Shannon, > > I downloaded SonicStage from www.minidisc.org. One has to register, > before one can download the software from there. But this is useful > anyway, because after registering, one can participate in the forums. > > To find SonicStage on minidisc.org, go to the site and click on recent > news. One of the items is about the new SonicStage. Click on the discuss > link of that item. > ><*** Michael Lang ***> > > You wrote: > > > Hi there, > > Where can one find this new version of sonic stage? I have the ver2. and it > > is absolutely horrible with my Net MD player. If you are having success with > > this version I would give it a try. > > Thanks alot > > Shannon > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Lang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:05 PM > > Subject: My first Minidisc upload > > > >> A couple of days ago, sony released a new version of SonicStage. With > >> this software, one can up and download stuff from and to ATRAC devices > >> like MD recorders. Until this new version 3.2, one could only upload a > >> recording from an MD once. However with 3.2, one can upload as often as > >> one wants. SonicStage still isn't too accessible. Uploading is > >> nevertheless absolutely doable with a screen reader. As with Ad-Aware, I > >> can't read an important list, the list with all the tracks from the > >> Minidisc. But there's a menu item called select all and after one > >> executes it, one can try, whether it has worked by pressing F6. This > >> will play all the selected tracks from the Minidisc through the sound > >> card. One can then select a menu item to upload all selected files. I > >> was asked, whether I wanted to convert the uploads to Wave files and if > >> so, where I wanted to store them. All worked fine. A great new version > >> of SonicStage! Now, HIMD-Recorders are a good option, when one is > >> looking for a high quality audio recorder, with which one can also > >> upload to the PC. > >> > >><*** Michael Lang ***> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > >> http://www.pc-audio.org > >> > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ___ > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ___ > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Audible and MP3
The web site says that the files can be streamed in Windows Media only. Now, if you download them to your computer or you have real set as your default player you can play them in realplayer. No, you can't convert them, or rather it is illegal. - Original Message - From: "G. McFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC-Audio" Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: Audible and MP3 Hi I'm new to Audible books and am looking for some advice. I gather that the books can be read in Media Player and Real Player. Does this apply to Real Pla;yer on a phone (Nokia 9500) or has there to be some other software or codec available before Audible's format is recognised. Alternatives for listening on a mobile phone or other device using MP3 - are there any? Can the files be converted - is this legal if you're just using your own books which you've downloaded? Thanks in anticipation for any help. Feel free to reply off list if you wish. Gordon McFarlane -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/05 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
winamp crossfade
hi all. can someone tell me where to get the winamp crossfade pro? David _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My first Minidisc upload
Hi Shannon; What kine of mini disk are you running? Is it easy to understand and run as a blind person? TXS; Ken B - Original Message - From: "shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "PC audio discussion list. " Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:55 AM Subject: Re: My first Minidisc upload > thanks so much for that Mike. > I will most definitely check this out. Smile > Thanks again > Shannon > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Lang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "PC audio discussion list. " > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: My first Minidisc upload > > > > Shannon, > > > > I downloaded SonicStage from www.minidisc.org. One has to register, > > before one can download the software from there. But this is useful > > anyway, because after registering, one can participate in the forums. > > > > To find SonicStage on minidisc.org, go to the site and click on recent > > news. One of the items is about the new SonicStage. Click on the discuss > > link of that item. > > > ><*** Michael Lang ***> > > > > You wrote: > > > > > Hi there, > > > Where can one find this new version of sonic stage? I have the ver2. and > it > > > is absolutely horrible with my Net MD player. If you are having success > with > > > this version I would give it a try. > > > Thanks alot > > > Shannon > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Michael Lang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:05 PM > > > Subject: My first Minidisc upload > > > > > > >> A couple of days ago, sony released a new version of SonicStage. With > > >> this software, one can up and download stuff from and to ATRAC devices > > >> like MD recorders. Until this new version 3.2, one could only upload a > > >> recording from an MD once. However with 3.2, one can upload as often as > > >> one wants. SonicStage still isn't too accessible. Uploading is > > >> nevertheless absolutely doable with a screen reader. As with Ad-Aware, > I > > >> can't read an important list, the list with all the tracks from the > > >> Minidisc. But there's a menu item called select all and after one > > >> executes it, one can try, whether it has worked by pressing F6. This > > >> will play all the selected tracks from the Minidisc through the sound > > >> card. One can then select a menu item to upload all selected files. I > > >> was asked, whether I wanted to convert the uploads to Wave files and if > > >> so, where I wanted to store them. All worked fine. A great new version > > >> of SonicStage! Now, HIMD-Recorders are a good option, when one is > > >> looking for a high quality audio recorder, with which one can also > > >> upload to the PC. > > >> > > >><*** Michael Lang ***> > > >> > > >> > > >> ___ > > >> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > >> http://www.pc-audio.org > > >> > > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > ___ > > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ___ > > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > > http://www.pc-audio.org > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ___ > PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... > http://www.pc-audio.org > > To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 > > ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re soungforge7
Hi list, those of you who use soundforge, know that one uses control r to bring up the sound record box. then, alt r, to start the recording. since my computer crashed, had to be repaired, and i had to re-install soundforge, this r, from alt r, comes out so loud when i start the sounndforge file running, that it practically blasts me out of the room. of course, i delete it anyway, as i don't want it on the final recording when i save it. does anyone know, where in the record volumes i can lower the volume of this letter r, without of lowering the input of whatever i am recording. brian. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.8/61 - Release Date: 01/08/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Audible and MP3
Only the supported devices listed on the audible website will play audible files. This does include some cell phones, such as the HP I-Pack, but I don't know if your phone is supported. You'd have to check the list on the audible site. It is illegal to circumvent the audible encription in any way. You can download as many copies of a program to as many devices as you have activated, but it's not legal to defeat the encryption in order to copy programs to non-activated devices. On the download screen, there is a link to "listen online" but I'm not sure if this would work with portable devices such as cell phones, and I suspect that the site might be busy enough to prevent this from working well, although I've never actually tried it. I always download the programs and copy them to my Book Port which is a supported device. There are 2 mailing lists devoted to discussions among audible users. I recommend these lists. To subscribe, send blank emails to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps. Jeff - Original Message - From: "G. McFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:36 AM Hi I'm new to Audible books and am looking for some advice. I gather that the books can be read in Media Player and Real Player. Does this apply to Real Pla;yer on a phone (Nokia 9500) or has there to be some other software or codec available before Audible's format is recognised. Alternatives for listening on a mobile phone or other device using MP3 - are there any? Can the files be converted - is this legal if you're just using your own books which you've downloaded? Thanks in anticipation for any help. Feel free to reply off list if you wish. Gordon McFarlane ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Audible and MP3
Hi,
I've been with audible for about a year and a half, and I may be able to
explain a little about how this service works. for complete orientation, go
to http://www.audible.com and look for a link to orientation material. I
forget what that link is called.
,
first of all, I can't answer your question about using a cell phone as a
mobile listening device. It sounds fascinating, but may not be in keeping
with the way the service actually is used by most customers. I assume
you're talking about streaming from the site, and that does sound
interesting, and I hope you can find out something more about this idea.
But here's how most people use the service:it's .
When you purchase a program-- audible calls all its digital audio books,
periodicals and radio shows "programs"-- the first thing you do is go to
your personal library on the Audible site and, assuming you don't wish to
STREAM THE FILE STRAIGHT FROM THERE, YOU download the program to your
computer. It goes into a receiving folder in the Audible Manager program
which is your personal interface.
Once the file/program is on your system, you can listen to it either
sitting at your computer using the player that comes with Audible Manager,
called the Desktop Player, or with the Windows Media Player or Real Player.
I recommend Desktop Player for this purpose, because its keyboard commands
are simple and effective. Most blind and low vision Audible people feel
similarly. I can send you simple instructions for Desktop Player if you
like.
but But I think most Audible listening is done on mobile devices, and this
is what you may want to be aware of more than anything. Audible gives away
with a year's subscription the little Creative MuVo, a 128 Mb. flash memory
player that can hold two or even three book files at once and is very easy
to use by touch alone, as it has no LCD screen or menus. audible also lists
a number of other .mp3 player-type devices that can be used with their
programs, including many popular ones like the Ipod, as well as the BookPort
and Book Courier that a lot of blind people use for various digital reading
purposes.
You hook up the player to your USB port and then use Audible Manager to copy
("transfer") the programs onto the player of your choice. Then with nothing
more than maybe a MuVo hardly bigger than a pack of doublemint gum and a
pair of earbuds, you're good to go.
This scenario for mobile listening, rather than recruiting your cell phone
for online streaming, may be the practical way to go. Even if there's some
way to make the phone accept the audio stream, you'd need also a set of
player commands like fast forward and rewind and pause, and be able to stop
mid-program and start again from the same place. I don't think there's any
such arrangement possible, at least not yet.
Hope this helps.
Daniel
- Original Message -
From: "G. McFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC-Audio"
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:36 AM
Subject: Audible and MP3
Hi
I'm new to Audible books and am looking for some advice. I gather that the
books can be read in Media Player and Real Player. Does this apply to Real
Pla;yer on a phone (Nokia 9500) or has there to be some other software or
codec available before Audible's format is recognised.
Alternatives for listening on a mobile phone or other device using MP3 - are
there any? Can the files be converted - is this legal if you're just using
your own books which you've downloaded?
Thanks in anticipation for any help. Feel free to reply off list if you
wish.
Gordon McFarlane
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/05
___
PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
http://www.pc-audio.org
To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 0.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 0.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005
___
PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
http://www.pc-audio.org
To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Audible and MP3
I don't think I'd buy an Ipod for much of any reason these days. I doubt it
does much the Muvo or Bookport can't, besides make you use Itunes to manage
the content. That would tack on $40 for scripts on to an already expensive
player just to move audible books in to it. The Pac Mate will play audible,
but it takes absolutely forever to put one program on. I was going to load
it with something that was about 50 megs, think some podcast I had on my
computer, and it wasn't even close to done after 10 mins.
They have to come up with something faster to transmit files to these
devices (the TNS probably only has USB 1, and my system right now does
also).
- Original Message -
From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. "
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Audible and MP3
> Hi,
>
> I've been with audible for about a year and a half, and I may be able to
> explain a little about how this service works. for complete orientation,
go
> to http://www.audible.com and look for a link to orientation material. I
> forget what that link is called.
> ,
>
> first of all, I can't answer your question about using a cell phone as a
> mobile listening device. It sounds fascinating, but may not be in keeping
> with the way the service actually is used by most customers. I assume
> you're talking about streaming from the site, and that does sound
> interesting, and I hope you can find out something more about this idea.
>
> But here's how most people use the service:it's .
>
>
> When you purchase a program-- audible calls all its digital audio books,
> periodicals and radio shows "programs"-- the first thing you do is go to
> your personal library on the Audible site and, assuming you don't wish to
> STREAM THE FILE STRAIGHT FROM THERE, YOU download the program to your
> computer. It goes into a receiving folder in the Audible Manager program
> which is your personal interface.
>
> Once the file/program is on your system, you can listen to it either
> sitting at your computer using the player that comes with Audible Manager,
> called the Desktop Player, or with the Windows Media Player or Real
Player.
> I recommend Desktop Player for this purpose, because its keyboard commands
> are simple and effective. Most blind and low vision Audible people feel
> similarly. I can send you simple instructions for Desktop Player if you
> like.
>
> but But I think most Audible listening is done on mobile devices, and this
> is what you may want to be aware of more than anything. Audible gives
away
> with a year's subscription the little Creative MuVo, a 128 Mb. flash
memory
> player that can hold two or even three book files at once and is very easy
> to use by touch alone, as it has no LCD screen or menus. audible also
lists
> a number of other .mp3 player-type devices that can be used with their
> programs, including many popular ones like the Ipod, as well as the
BookPort
> and Book Courier that a lot of blind people use for various digital
reading
> purposes.
>
> You hook up the player to your USB port and then use Audible Manager to
copy
> ("transfer") the programs onto the player of your choice. Then with
nothing
> more than maybe a MuVo hardly bigger than a pack of doublemint gum and a
> pair of earbuds, you're good to go.
>
> This scenario for mobile listening, rather than recruiting your cell phone
> for online streaming, may be the practical way to go. Even if there's
some
> way to make the phone accept the audio stream, you'd need also a set of
> player commands like fast forward and rewind and pause, and be able to
stop
> mid-program and start again from the same place. I don't think there's
any
> such arrangement possible, at least not yet.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Daniel
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "G. McFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "PC-Audio"
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:36 AM
> Subject: Audible and MP3
>
>
> Hi
> I'm new to Audible books and am looking for some advice. I gather that the
> books can be read in Media Player and Real Player. Does this apply to Real
> Pla;yer on a phone (Nokia 9500) or has there to be some other software or
> codec available before Audible's format is recognised.
>
> Alternatives for listening on a mobile phone or other device using MP3 -
are
> there any? Can the files be converted - is this legal if you're just using
> your own books which you've downloaded?
>
> Thanks in anticipation for any help. Feel free to reply off list if you
> wish.
>
> Gordon McFarlane
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/05
>
>
> ___
> PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more...
> http://www.pc-audio.org
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Re: Nature Sounds.
Jim, I work with a woman whose husband makes commercial nature audio. I should see her soon, and I'll ask her and let you know. Geoff - Original Message - From: Jim Noseworthy To: PC Audio Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:54 PM Subject: Nature Sounds. Hi Folks: I am wondering if anyone on this list knows where I can find streaming sounds of nature; such as, rain, wind, thunder, swamps, forests, etc. Thanks all over the place gang. ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/2005 ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Audible and MP3
Thanks Tim, Daniel, Jeff and Brent for all the information. It looks like
I've a bit of work ahead of me getting to grips with Audible.
Thanks again.
gordon
- Original Message -
From: "Brent Harding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. "
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Audible and MP3
I don't think I'd buy an Ipod for much of any reason these days. I doubt it
does much the Muvo or Bookport can't, besides make you use Itunes to
manage
the content. That would tack on $40 for scripts on to an already expensive
player just to move audible books in to it. The Pac Mate will play
audible,
but it takes absolutely forever to put one program on. I was going to load
it with something that was about 50 megs, think some podcast I had on my
computer, and it wasn't even close to done after 10 mins.
They have to come up with something faster to transmit files to these
devices (the TNS probably only has USB 1, and my system right now does
also).
- Original Message -
From: "Yardbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC audio discussion list. "
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Audible and MP3
Hi,
I've been with audible for about a year and a half, and I may be able to
explain a little about how this service works. for complete orientation,
go
to http://www.audible.com and look for a link to orientation material. I
forget what that link is called.
,
first of all, I can't answer your question about using a cell phone as a
mobile listening device. It sounds fascinating, but may not be in keeping
with the way the service actually is used by most customers. I assume
you're talking about streaming from the site, and that does sound
interesting, and I hope you can find out something more about this idea.
But here's how most people use the service:it's .
When you purchase a program-- audible calls all its digital audio books,
periodicals and radio shows "programs"-- the first thing you do is go to
your personal library on the Audible site and, assuming you don't wish to
STREAM THE FILE STRAIGHT FROM THERE, YOU download the program to your
computer. It goes into a receiving folder in the Audible Manager program
which is your personal interface.
Once the file/program is on your system, you can listen to it either
sitting at your computer using the player that comes with Audible
Manager,
called the Desktop Player, or with the Windows Media Player or Real
Player.
I recommend Desktop Player for this purpose, because its keyboard
commands
are simple and effective. Most blind and low vision Audible people feel
similarly. I can send you simple instructions for Desktop Player if you
like.
but But I think most Audible listening is done on mobile devices, and
this
is what you may want to be aware of more than anything. Audible gives
away
with a year's subscription the little Creative MuVo, a 128 Mb. flash
memory
player that can hold two or even three book files at once and is very
easy
to use by touch alone, as it has no LCD screen or menus. audible also
lists
a number of other .mp3 player-type devices that can be used with their
programs, including many popular ones like the Ipod, as well as the
BookPort
and Book Courier that a lot of blind people use for various digital
reading
purposes.
You hook up the player to your USB port and then use Audible Manager to
copy
("transfer") the programs onto the player of your choice. Then with
nothing
more than maybe a MuVo hardly bigger than a pack of doublemint gum and a
pair of earbuds, you're good to go.
This scenario for mobile listening, rather than recruiting your cell
phone
for online streaming, may be the practical way to go. Even if there's
some
way to make the phone accept the audio stream, you'd need also a set of
player commands like fast forward and rewind and pause, and be able to
stop
mid-program and start again from the same place. I don't think there's
any
such arrangement possible, at least not yet.
Hope this helps.
Daniel
- Original Message -
From: "G. McFarlane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "PC-Audio"
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:36 AM
Subject: Audible and MP3
Hi
I'm new to Audible books and am looking for some advice. I gather that
the
books can be read in Media Player and Real Player. Does this apply to
Real
Pla;yer on a phone (Nokia 9500) or has there to be some other software or
codec available before Audible's format is recognised.
Alternatives for listening on a mobile phone or other device using MP3 -
are
there any? Can the files be converted - is this legal if you're just
using
your own books which you've downloaded?
Thanks in anticipation for any help. Feel free to reply off list if you
wish.
Gordon McFarlane
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 02/08/05
___
PC-Audio Lis
winamp plugins for the ipod
Hi everyone! I'm considering buying an ipod shuffle, and I was wondering which winamp plugins were the most accessible replacements for the ITunes software. Which one makes it easiest to transfer files to and from the ipod? Thanks! Allison ___ PC-Audio List Help, Guidelines, Archives and more... http://www.pc-audio.org To unsubscribe from this list, send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
