[opensource-dev] oh give me a break
Soft Linden said: "Content theft, griefing and resource abuse have been long-term problems." I've been a lurker here but are you KIDDING ME? When Linden Labs open sourced Second Life, they were right along side us saying to proprietary content developers YOU CANNOT PROTECT YOUR CONTENT. Has that changed now and Linden labs is protecting people who make their binary blobs and think they should be protected??? Linden Labs says if we don't cooperate then o noes we'll get throttled. If Linden Labs closes the source your going to have a lot of angry coders on your hands and just to show it content "theft" and "griefing" will skyrocket! Lindens should be staying with their promises, Open Source has contributed more to Second Life than people who make shoes that they want to keep proprietary and not share. I'll say it again you canot protect content. Ever. DRM goes against the spirit of Open Source and if content creators cant get with that then they should find a new business and it shouldnt be on the INTERNET. I never get "griefed" in secondlife anymore. anyways if Linden Labs wants to fight against the Open Source community they can TRY but they wont win. We can fork and we can make a place where open freedoms are respected. ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content wrapped in DRM. sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take something of yours that isnt replaceable. but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: > well I am a content creator, content theft is a problem to me, it is tied to > IP rights which are a legal issue. And I am not one of those who say > "content theft is inevitable, let's not do anything about it". Doors can be > lock picked, that's not a reason for me to leave my door wide open. > > > On 14 March 2010 23:04, New Hax wrote: > >> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >> > Err... Content theft has always been a problem, will always be a >> > problem, >> > and LL better be on the same page with developers, content makers and >> > customers here. >> >> content theft isn't a problem, never has been a problem, and is the >> nature of the internet and digital things. if content makers are >> worried about content "theft" then they shouldn't be on SL. because >> its inevitable and cant be stopped. >> > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
there shouldn't be. if SL is to be open, and really open source, then the scripts on it should be GPL as well. But it's different because scripts CAN be protected FOR NOW but blobs of binary and graphics , textures, and blobs of prims cannot. If i take a sphere prim and put a happy face texture on it, do i suddenly own all sphere prims with happy face textures on them? I think that yea scripts should be open too it'd be in the spirit of real opensource dev. But if you want to lock them up you ccan since they run on the server. but this will change with interop. you wont be able to protect scripts either when you go to someone else's sim, they can take your code then. so I say dont bother. eventually once everything is opened people will get over the idea of 'intellectual property' like a sickness. On 3/14/10, Lawson English wrote: > New Hax wrote: >> then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content >> wrapped in DRM. >> >> sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the >> internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take >> something of yours that isnt replaceable. >> >> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. >> >> > > So lets open up all scripting sources too. I mean no need for content > protection there, either, right? > > > Lawson > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
No im not kidding, whats going to stop people from taking your scripts, when you can hop from one grid to another? Interoperability? The sim owner can take your scripts. For now scripts are protected because Linden Labs owns the code. On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: > You are kidding here, right ? > > On 14 March 2010 23:27, New Hax wrote: > >> there shouldn't be. if SL is to be open, and really open source, then >> the scripts on it should be GPL as well. But it's different because >> scripts CAN be protected FOR NOW but blobs of binary and graphics , >> textures, and blobs of prims cannot. >> >> If i take a sphere prim and put a happy face texture on it, do i >> suddenly own all sphere prims with happy face textures on them? >> >> I think that yea scripts should be open too it'd be in the spirit of >> real opensource dev. But if you want to lock them up you ccan since >> they run on the server. >> >> but this will change with interop. you wont be able to protect scripts >> either when you go to someone else's sim, they can take your code >> then. so I say dont bother. >> >> eventually once everything is opened people will get over the idea of >> 'intellectual property' like a sickness. >> >> On 3/14/10, Lawson English wrote: >> > New Hax wrote: >> >> then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content >> >> wrapped in DRM. >> >> >> >> sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the >> >> internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take >> >> something of yours that isnt replaceable. >> >> >> >> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >> >> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > So lets open up all scripting sources too. I mean no need for content >> > protection there, either, right? >> > >> > >> > Lawson >> > >> > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
I know better than to try to get rich off of selling ones and zeroes. On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: > Then what are you doing in SL? Not making a living, I can assure you. > > Nor are you putting food on the table RL except perhaps by manual labor, > which cannot be copied. Ex: Ditches need to be dug. The ditch-digger can > be changed out, but that doesn't change the fact that even if you get a > new digger, you still have a ditch when you're done. > > OSS/Free Software and Proprietary software are the diggers; they're not > the ditch itself. > > On 03/14/2010 06:18 PM, New Hax wrote: >> then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content >> wrapped in DRM. >> >> sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the >> internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take >> something of yours that isnt replaceable. >> >> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. >> >> >> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >> >>> well I am a content creator, content theft is a problem to me, it is tied >>> to >>> IP rights which are a legal issue. And I am not one of those who say >>> "content theft is inevitable, let's not do anything about it". Doors can >>> be >>> lock picked, that's not a reason for me to leave my door wide open. >>> >>> >>> On 14 March 2010 23:04, New Hax wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>> >>>>> Err... Content theft has always been a problem, will always be a >>>>> problem, >>>>> and LL better be on the same page with developers, content makers and >>>>> customers here. >>>>> >>>> content theft isn't a problem, never has been a problem, and is the >>>> nature of the internet and digital things. if content makers are >>>> worried about content "theft" then they shouldn't be on SL. because >>>> its inevitable and cant be stopped. >>>> >>>> >>> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
I want a grid where people can have the freedom to develop what they want and do what they want, without being told whats allowed, and without being watched because you might move the wrong bits from one place to another. and without lindens threatening if we dont "play nice" with draconinan DRM. That was what i hoped the spirit of Open source SL would be. but i guess im wrong. On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: > Then what are you doing here? > > On 03/14/2010 06:32 PM, New Hax wrote: >> I know better than to try to get rich off of selling ones and zeroes. >> >> On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: >> >>> Then what are you doing in SL? Not making a living, I can assure you. >>> >>> Nor are you putting food on the table RL except perhaps by manual labor, >>> which cannot be copied. Ex: Ditches need to be dug. The ditch-digger can >>> be changed out, but that doesn't change the fact that even if you get a >>> new digger, you still have a ditch when you're done. >>> >>> OSS/Free Software and Proprietary software are the diggers; they're not >>> the ditch itself. >>> >>> On 03/14/2010 06:18 PM, New Hax wrote: >>> >>>> then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content >>>> wrapped in DRM. >>>> >>>> sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the >>>> internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take >>>> something of yours that isnt replaceable. >>>> >>>> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >>>> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> well I am a content creator, content theft is a problem to me, it is >>>>> tied >>>>> to >>>>> IP rights which are a legal issue. And I am not one of those who say >>>>> "content theft is inevitable, let's not do anything about it". Doors >>>>> can >>>>> be >>>>> lock picked, that's not a reason for me to leave my door wide open. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 14 March 2010 23:04, New Hax wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Err... Content theft has always been a problem, will always be a >>>>>>> problem, >>>>>>> and LL better be on the same page with developers, content makers and >>>>>>> customers here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> content theft isn't a problem, never has been a problem, and is the >>>>>> nature of the internet and digital things. if content makers are >>>>>> worried about content "theft" then they shouldn't be on SL. because >>>>>> its inevitable and cant be stopped. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>>> privileges >>>> >>>> >>> ___ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >>> > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
agree to disagree yea but then your days are numbered in SL. If the project forks then there will be a VW without all these restrictions and lindens threatening people for asking them to keep their promises? On 3/14/10, New Hax wrote: > I want a grid where people can have the freedom to develop what they > want and do what they want, without being told whats allowed, and > without being watched because you might move the wrong bits from one > place to another. and without lindens threatening if we dont "play > nice" with draconinan DRM. That was what i hoped the spirit of Open > source SL would be. but i guess im wrong. > > > On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: >> Then what are you doing here? >> >> On 03/14/2010 06:32 PM, New Hax wrote: >>> I know better than to try to get rich off of selling ones and zeroes. >>> >>> On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: >>> >>>> Then what are you doing in SL? Not making a living, I can assure you. >>>> >>>> Nor are you putting food on the table RL except perhaps by manual >>>> labor, >>>> which cannot be copied. Ex: Ditches need to be dug. The ditch-digger >>>> can >>>> be changed out, but that doesn't change the fact that even if you get a >>>> new digger, you still have a ditch when you're done. >>>> >>>> OSS/Free Software and Proprietary software are the diggers; they're not >>>> the ditch itself. >>>> >>>> On 03/14/2010 06:18 PM, New Hax wrote: >>>> >>>>> then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your content >>>>> wrapped in DRM. >>>>> >>>>> sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the >>>>> internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take >>>>> something of yours that isnt replaceable. >>>>> >>>>> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >>>>> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> well I am a content creator, content theft is a problem to me, it is >>>>>> tied >>>>>> to >>>>>> IP rights which are a legal issue. And I am not one of those who say >>>>>> "content theft is inevitable, let's not do anything about it". Doors >>>>>> can >>>>>> be >>>>>> lock picked, that's not a reason for me to leave my door wide open. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14 March 2010 23:04, New Hax wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Err... Content theft has always been a problem, will always be a >>>>>>>> problem, >>>>>>>> and LL better be on the same page with developers, content makers >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> customers here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> content theft isn't a problem, never has been a problem, and is the >>>>>>> nature of the internet and digital things. if content makers are >>>>>>> worried about content "theft" then they shouldn't be on SL. because >>>>>>> its inevitable and cant be stopped. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>>>> privileges >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>>> privileges >>>> >>>> >> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
anyways im done here, Linden Labs is going to close the code and become big brother. Just watch. I thought i'd come out of lurking but i guess that was the wrong idea. have a good time while SL swirls around the drain when it could be taking the world over, used everywhere like the web, if it were truly open. On 3/14/10, New Hax wrote: > agree to disagree yea but then your days are numbered in SL. If the > project forks then there will be a VW without all these restrictions > and lindens threatening people for asking them to keep their promises? > > On 3/14/10, New Hax wrote: >> I want a grid where people can have the freedom to develop what they >> want and do what they want, without being told whats allowed, and >> without being watched because you might move the wrong bits from one >> place to another. and without lindens threatening if we dont "play >> nice" with draconinan DRM. That was what i hoped the spirit of Open >> source SL would be. but i guess im wrong. >> >> >> On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: >>> Then what are you doing here? >>> >>> On 03/14/2010 06:32 PM, New Hax wrote: >>>> I know better than to try to get rich off of selling ones and zeroes. >>>> >>>> On 3/14/10, Glen Canaday wrote: >>>> >>>>> Then what are you doing in SL? Not making a living, I can assure you. >>>>> >>>>> Nor are you putting food on the table RL except perhaps by manual >>>>> labor, >>>>> which cannot be copied. Ex: Ditches need to be dug. The ditch-digger >>>>> can >>>>> be changed out, but that doesn't change the fact that even if you get >>>>> a >>>>> new digger, you still have a ditch when you're done. >>>>> >>>>> OSS/Free Software and Proprietary software are the diggers; they're >>>>> not >>>>> the ditch itself. >>>>> >>>>> On 03/14/2010 06:18 PM, New Hax wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> then what are you doing on an opensource list if you want your >>>>>> content >>>>>> wrapped in DRM. >>>>>> >>>>>> sl will die if its not open. and you can't compare rl doors to the >>>>>> internet. if you dont lock your rl door I can come in and take >>>>>> something of yours that isnt replaceable. >>>>>> >>>>>> but on the internet as a content maker you can make INFINITE products >>>>>> so you arent losing anything if i copy it and make no money off of >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> well I am a content creator, content theft is a problem to me, it is >>>>>>> tied >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> IP rights which are a legal issue. And I am not one of those who say >>>>>>> "content theft is inevitable, let's not do anything about it". Doors >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> lock picked, that's not a reason for me to leave my door wide open. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 14 March 2010 23:04, New Hax wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/14/10, Marine Kelley wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Err... Content theft has always been a problem, will always be a >>>>>>>>> problem, >>>>>>>>> and LL better be on the same page with developers, content makers >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> customers here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> content theft isn't a problem, never has been a problem, and is the >>>>>>>> nature of the internet and digital things. if content makers are >>>>>>>> worried about content "theft" then they shouldn't be on SL. because >>>>>>>> its inevitable and cant be stopped. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>>>>> privileges >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>>>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>>>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>>>> privileges >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >> > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] oh give me a break
On 3/14/10, Carlo Wood wrote: > > Imho, SL would have have had better products if everything > had been free and open (no permission system). Then one could > learn from others and improve things, build upon the experience > and work of others, and nobody would make money of it or have > to be afraid that others would. > We can still make it that way. Copyclients still work for now. And lots of them cant be detected by Linden Labs. So if we get out there and free a lot of content before Linden Labs closes up the viewer then Linden Labs will have no choice but to embrace a FREE and OPEN grid. Nobody should be making money in SL. Think, it could be a hacker or experimenter or THINKERS paradise instead of a capitalist platform. > The fact that scripts can't be copied is lucky for those > that are making real money in SL, it is their only and last > protection against losing their income. > And their time will come and their locked up proprietary stuff will be freed, also. There are lots of coders working on that. > That brings me to the fact that LL is currently working > in secret and without discussion on the implementation > of client-side scripting, and from the tiny bit of information > that leaked out, they are apparently trying hard to make > also THOSE scripts hard to copy / inspect / improve upon. > I say they should go for it with client side scripting. Then we will be able to open it up and share everyones scripts. Right now scripts are locked away on the server and is the last link that we as hackers and coders cant open. Everyone who believes in a real OPEN grid should get out there and copy and FREE (do not charge for it) as much proprietary content as you can. Teach content makers and Linden Labs by force (we have control) that the only future is FREE. Join us now and share the software; You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free Hoarders can get piles of money, That is true, hackers, that is true. But they cannot help their neighbors; That's not good, hackers, that's not good. When we have enough free software At our call, hackers, at our call, We'll kick out those dirty licenses Ever more, hackers, ever more. Join us now and share the software; You'll be free, hackers, you'll be free. Song PUBLIC DOMAIN by Richard M. Stallman!!! I'm OUT! ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
