Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Baloo Uriza]

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:33:25 +1000, Tateru Nino wrote:

> Marvel (back before they had Disney's legion of undead lawyers) sued
> NCsoft over City of Heroes, because the character creator allowed users
> to create avatars that had similar likenesses to or similar names to
> Marvel trademarks. NCsoft eventually capitulated and settled.

Sure, but that was NCsoft, not some fan of NCsoft.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Lance Corrimal]

On Friday 20 August 2010 08:44:47 Tateru Nino wrote:
>   Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although,
> from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to
> question one is 'no'.

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting ???


> On 20/08/2010 4:38 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> > Is it just me or did the lindens stop replying to this topic?
> > 
> > 
> > ok, lets try this again.
> > 
> > Here are some distict questions, and I would like to see distinct
> > "yes" or "no" answers from linden labs employees, and I would like it
> > a lot if, in case no one of the lindens on the list can answer my
> > questions in such a disticnt manner, the questions be forwarded to
> > someone who can.
> > 
> > 
> > 1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my
> > true avatar name as their display name?
> > 
> > 2. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone from using a
> > display name that might be different from my true avatar name but for
> > all visual verification looks like it, given how there are unicode
> > characters that have a different code but look like regular
> > characters?
> > 
> > 3. Will there be procedures in place to prevent the case where someone
> > uses a copyrighted name of a fictional character (like, for example,
> > "Mickey Mouse" or "Clark Kent") as their display name?
> > 
> > 4. If the answer to any of the above is not a clear and loud yes: Will
> > there be procedures in place to protect the original holder of any
> > true avatar name from legal damages after someone used their name as
> > their display name for fraudulent uses?
> > 
> > bye,
> > LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Opensource Obscure]

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:44:47 +1000, Tateru Nino 
wrote:
> Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although, 
> from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to 
> question one is 'no'.
 
a few email messages ago, Kelly replied to Ann Otoole:

"No new user can create ann.otoole OR annotoole as a username,
that name is taken by you"

Isn't this the point of question one?


Questions 2-3 are not new.
Not new are stories of users abusing account names by exploiting
similarity between 'l' and "I" - or some other letters. The font
choice is to blame in such a case, and this has been reported to
PJIRA. Nothing new.

Question 4 seems even naive if I get it right - Legal 
protections? Is this that's being asked?
I'm not aware of other online service providers who put 
procedures in place to protect their users from fraudulent use. 
Can we name some? Thanks.

If you're looking for legal protection try registering your 
avatar name as a trademark, as other SL users did. 


> On 20/08/2010 4:38 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
>> Is it just me or did the lindens stop replying to this topic?

It is just you:
https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-August/002649.html

(or maybe I'm missing some rule about how fast Lindens must reply)

Opensource Obscure


>> ok, lets try this again.
>>
>> Here are some distict questions, and I would like to see distinct
>> "yes" or "no" answers from linden labs employees, and I would like it
>> a lot if, in case no one of the lindens on the list can answer my
>> questions in such a disticnt manner, the questions be forwarded to
>> someone who can.
>>
>>
>> 1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my
>> true avatar name as their display name?
>>
>> 2. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone from using a
>> display name that might be different from my true avatar name but for
>> all visual verification looks like it, given how there are unicode
>> characters that have a different code but look like regular
>> characters?
>>
>> 3. Will there be procedures in place to prevent the case where someone
>> uses a copyrighted name of a fictional character (like, for example,
>> "Mickey Mouse" or "Clark Kent") as their display name?
>>
>> 4. If the answer to any of the above is not a clear and loud yes: Will
>> there be procedures in place to protect the original holder of any
>> true avatar name from legal damages after someone used their name as
>> their display name for fraudulent uses?
>>
>> bye,
>> LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x vie wers?

[Opensource Obscure]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:53:18 -0700, Daniel Smith 
wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza 
wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote:
>>
>> > I'll ask the Lindens a direct question:
>> >
>> > What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their
>> > displayname?
>>
>> I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing."  If anything,
this
>> brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many people
might
>> have the same name.
>>
>>
> Thanks for playing.  Just sign up last week?  Based on the feedback here
> and
> on the blog, so many people are upset about this very question that the
> Lindens will pretty much have to address the issue.  The documentation
> trail
> on this is a mile long.  If they do nothing, situations will occur that
> will
> end up in court.  Bet on it.
> 
> 4 year SL'er, Daniel

Actually, questions SL users are upset about .. very rarely end up in
court.

4 year SL'er, Opensource
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Lance Corrimal]

On Friday 20 August 2010 10:08:13 Opensource Obscure wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:44:47 +1000, Tateru Nino 
> 
> wrote:
> > Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although,
> > from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to
> > question one is 'no'.
> 
> a few email messages ago, Kelly replied to Ann Otoole:
> 
> "No new user can create ann.otoole OR annotoole as a username,
> that name is taken by you"
> 
> Isn't this the point of question one?

NO.
my point is this:
my "true avatar name" is Lance Corrimal so will there be anything PREVENTING 
(not just putting something like "we ask you pretty please do not ..." in the 
FAQ) others from using that as theit DISPLAY NAME ???


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x vie wers?

[Opensource Obscure]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:08:07 -0400,  wrote:
> Seems like twitter has a pretty good solution.  Display names are
unique.
> And your login account isn't public so you have better security.

Are you sure? As far as I know, things are quite different:

- login account (that Twitter calls "Username") is public

- in my case, Username = "oobscure"
- full name (properly "Name") in my case is "Opensource Obscure"
- in your case, Name = Username = "MysticalDemina"

- other people publicly use my Username to "mention" me ("@oobscure")
- Twitter website and 3rd party apps show these names in various ways
- you can change both Username and Name in any moment
- by changing your Username, your Twitter URL changes too

Twitter fake personalities indeed exist and that's why Twitter
also implemented the "Verified name" thing, that implies 
an identity verification process.

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Opensource Obscure]

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:18:44 +0200, Lance Corrimal
 wrote:
> On Friday 20 August 2010 10:08:13 Opensource Obscure wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:44:47 +1000, Tateru Nino 
>> 
>> wrote:
>> > Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although,
>> > from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to
>> > question one is 'no'.
>> 
>> a few email messages ago, Kelly replied to Ann Otoole:
>> 
>> "No new user can create ann.otoole OR annotoole as a username,
>> that name is taken by you"
>> 
>> Isn't this the point of question one?
> 
> NO.
> my point is this:
> my "true avatar name" is Lance Corrimal so will there be anything
> PREVENTING 
> (not just putting something like "we ask you pretty please do not ..."
in
> the 
> FAQ) others from using that as theit DISPLAY NAME ???

I think computer systems exist that are advanced enough to
block such a request ;-) I guess they would work like the 
existing system, that blocks you if you try to register an
account with an existing combination of First and Last name.
Additionally, this system would also check for further 
combinations of existing First and Last name. That is,
LanceCorrimal won't be accepted,
Lance.Corrimal won't be accepted,
Opensource.Obscure won't be accepted, etc

In the current registration process you don't find a Linden
kindly asking you not to use existing names. There's a
system filter at work, that has been probably modified
in order to support the new system.

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Stickman]

>> my "true avatar name" is Lance Corrimal so will there be anything
>> PREVENTING others from using that as theit DISPLAY NAME ???

> LanceCorrimal won't be accepted,
> Lance.Corrimal won't be accepted,
> Opensource.Obscure won't be accepted, etc

Yeah, but he said display name, not username. The "username" (what you
register for) needs to be unique. But everything I'm seeing about the
display name says it's gotta be 31 characters, and that's the only
strict limitation it seems to have.

For me, I'll turn on "show username" in preferences. That'll solve all
my problems. And when someone comes to me after having been swindled,
I'll tell them to do the same. After a time or two, they may decide
it's worth turning on.

Stickman
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Re: [opensource-dev] To Pie or To List

[Opensource Obscure]

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:48:52 -0700, Ricky  wrote:
> Either way, I still see it as of little use with objects I own or am
> the creator of!
> 
> As regards the order for objects for which I am neither creator nor
> owner I have no suggestion.  The current order might make sense.  Then
> again, Do I ever have permission to /Delete/ someone else's objects?
> Not so far as I know.  /Return/ would be the only available option,
> and then only if I have edit privs on the owner's goods, am in a group
> that allows me to return other's goods on the given parcel, or am the
> landowner.
> 
> This is starting to sound like it's time for a list:
> * I am Owner
> ** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (Doesn't make sense!)
> ** "Block" is active (I may want to mute my own objects after all!)
> ** "Return" is deactivated
> ** "Delete" is active
> * I am Creator but not Owner and I have no privileges granted
> ** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (NOTE)
> ** "Block" is active
> ** "Return" is deactivated
> ** "Delete" is deactivated
> * I have been either granted Edit on the Owner's goods, am a member of
> a group that the land is deeded to, the group I'm a part of has return
> privs, or I am the land owner:
> ** "Report Abuse" is active
> ** "Block" is active
> ** "Return" is active
> ** "Delete" is deactivated (Unless for some reason land owners can
> delete objects This I am unsure of.  Typically I've seen them
> return items.)
> * Otherwise (Not Creator, Not Owner, No Privs)
> ** "Report Abuse" is active
> ** "Block" is active
> ** "Return" is deactivated
> ** "Delete" is deactivated
> 
> (NOTE) There may be a use case here for "Report Abuse" to be active on
> an object I am the creator of, but not the owner: If the object is
> modifiable, it's parts may have been used to make something offensive.
>  I'd rather keep the option open in this case.
> 
> Order may be largely a preference, but I think that "Delete" should be
> topmost, if available as an option.  However this may create another
> usability issue if the order of items in the menu follows a logical,
> but seemingly random to beginners, order depending on context: A first
> timer would have difficulty knowing beforehand which item will be in
> what position in the menu.  So the order may need to be fixed, just
> having unusable elements grayed out and deactivated in certain
> contexts.

If our aim is to make the menu lighter, cleaner and simpler to 
read, especially for a newbie, I'd prefer to completely hide
those entries from the menu. Grayed and deactivated entries
are still being read and their meaning is processed by the 
brain, so it's only a partial semplification.

If the problem is only that one risks to return or abuse-report
her stuff, I find it to be a very small and low-priority problem, 
as both those features have a confirmation window.

Personally, I think Delete should be in a submenu and it should NOT
be easily available, as we want to avoid it being triggered by error.

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Bryon Ruxton]

On 8/19/10 9:53 PM, "Baloo Uriza"  wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 19:42:37 -0700, Bryon Ruxton wrote:
> 
>> On 8/19/10 7:20 PM, "Argent Stonecutter"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2010-08-19, at 14:09, Michael Schlenker wrote:
 Its a special case of the general case, i didn't check but I'm pretty
 sure 'Agent Smith' is taken by someone. If it is and you had your way
 it would not be possible to use that name.
>>> 
>>> Yes. So?
>> Argent, Keep in mind once the feature is implemented: One will be able
>> to choose "Captain America" with captain.america becoming his unique
>> username.
> 
> Actually, not quite, based on what I saw in Torley's video.  I could
> change my display name to "Captain America," but my unique username would
> still be baloo.uriza.
Of course it will. Please read my second email (the correction). Your
username won't change, I said new users, sigh.


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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Lance Corrimal]

On Friday 20 August 2010 10:31:28 Opensource Obscure wrote:

> I think computer systems exist that are advanced enough to
> 
> block such a request ;-) I guess they would work like the

frankly, I am not asking what you think or guess.
this thread was supposed to get a clear and distinct statement from the 
lindens.

> In the current registration process you don't find a Linden

this is NOT, i repeat NOT about the registration process.

this is about preventing people from changing their DISPLAY NAME LATER to 
someone else's true avatar name.


made myself clear?


bye,
LC
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[opensource-dev] (was: To Pie or To List)

[Boroondas Gupte]

 On 08/20/2010 02:48 AM, Ricky wrote:
> This is starting to sound like it's time for a list:
> [...]
Overall, very reasonable list. (Though I'm not sure users with edit
rights on the object's owner's objects should be the same category as
users having return rights on the land. Aren't there some differences in
what they can do?)
> * I am Creator but not Owner and I have no privileges granted
> ** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (NOTE)
> ** "Block" is active
> ** "Return" is deactivated
> ** "Delete" is deactivated
> [...]
>
> (NOTE) There may be a use case here for "Report Abuse" to be active on
> an object I am the creator of, but not the owner: If the object is
> modifiable, it's parts may have been used to make something offensive.
>  I'd rather keep the option open in this case.
Actually, this even applies when the object was modifiable when the
original creator gave it away but isn't anymore when he right-clicks it.
(Later editors of the object might have disabled that permission.)

> Order may be largely a preference, but I think that "Delete" should be
> topmost, if available as an option.  However this may create another
> usability issue if the order of items in the menu follows a logical,
> but seemingly random to beginners, order depending on context: A first
> timer would have difficulty knowing beforehand which item will be in
> what position in the menu.  So the order may need to be fixed, just
> having unusable elements grayed out and deactivated in certain
> contexts.
Order should definitely be fixed, just unavailable entries (and those
that cannot make sense in the respective context) disabled. Even long
time users might not always be aware of their
creatorship/ownership/permission relation to an object they right-click,
so changing menu entry order depending on that would indeed be very
confusing.

cheers
Boroondas
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Lance Corrimal]

On Friday 20 August 2010 10:37:38 Stickman wrote:


> For me, I'll turn on "show username" in preferences. That'll solve all
> my problems.

ditto, but i have doubts about the "solve all my problems" part unicode. 
'nuff said.

> And when someone comes to me after having been swindled,
> I'll tell them to do the same. After a time or two, they may decide
> it's worth turning on.


IF they actually come to you and not just simply file AR against you...


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Stickman]

> ditto, but i have doubts about the "solve all my problems" part unicode.
> 'nuff said.

Well, periods can't be put into the new usernames (Kelly said so
earlier). So it's a problem for new accounts where unicode is used to
cheat them. But new accounts can't copy old accounts without a period.

Stickman
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Baloo Uriza]

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:22:30 +0200, Lance Corrimal wrote:

> On Friday 20 August 2010 08:44:47 Tateru Nino wrote:
>>   Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although,
>> from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to
>> question one is 'no'.
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting ???

Common carrier.

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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Tateru Nino]

On 20/08/2010 6:08 PM, Opensource Obscure wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 16:44:47 +1000, Tateru Nino
> wrote:
>> Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although,
>> from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to
>> question one is 'no'.
>
> a few email messages ago, Kelly replied to Ann Otoole:
>
> "No new user can create ann.otoole OR annotoole as a username,
> that name is taken by you"
>
> Isn't this the point of question one?

No, Kelly's answer was about account names. Lance's question was about 
whether a Display Name could be the same (for varying values of the 
same) as an Account Name.
>
> Questions 2-3 are not new.
> Not new are stories of users abusing account names by exploiting
> similarity between 'l' and "I" - or some other letters. The font
> choice is to blame in such a case, and this has been reported to
> PJIRA. Nothing new.
>
> Question 4 seems even naive if I get it right - Legal
> protections? Is this that's being asked?
> I'm not aware of other online service providers who put
> procedures in place to protect their users from fraudulent use.
> Can we name some? Thanks.
>
> If you're looking for legal protection try registering your
> avatar name as a trademark, as other SL users did.
>
>
>> On 20/08/2010 4:38 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
>>> Is it just me or did the lindens stop replying to this topic?
> It is just you:
> https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2010-August/002649.html
>
> (or maybe I'm missing some rule about how fast Lindens must reply)
>
> Opensource Obscure
>
>
>>> ok, lets try this again.
>>>
>>> Here are some distict questions, and I would like to see distinct
>>> "yes" or "no" answers from linden labs employees, and I would like it
>>> a lot if, in case no one of the lindens on the list can answer my
>>> questions in such a disticnt manner, the questions be forwarded to
>>> someone who can.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my
>>> true avatar name as their display name?
>>>
>>> 2. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone from using a
>>> display name that might be different from my true avatar name but for
>>> all visual verification looks like it, given how there are unicode
>>> characters that have a different code but look like regular
>>> characters?
>>>
>>> 3. Will there be procedures in place to prevent the case where someone
>>> uses a copyrighted name of a fictional character (like, for example,
>>> "Mickey Mouse" or "Clark Kent") as their display name?
>>>
>>> 4. If the answer to any of the above is not a clear and loud yes: Will
>>> there be procedures in place to protect the original holder of any
>>> true avatar name from legal damages after someone used their name as
>>> their display name for fraudulent uses?
>>>
>>> bye,
>>> LC
>>> ___
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>>>

-- 
Tateru Nino
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/

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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Tateru Nino]

On 20/08/2010 6:35 PM, Baloo Uriza wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:22:30 +0200, Lance Corrimal wrote:
>
>> On Friday 20 August 2010 08:44:47 Tateru Nino wrote:
>>>Forwarding your questions through the PR channels, Lance. Although,
>>> from the documentation provided by the Lab so far, the answer to
>>> question one is 'no'.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting ???
> Common carrier.
There's a strong case that the Lab no longer has common carrier status, 
due to frequent, unprompted exercises of editorial control (though it 
might be seeking to regain it). Either way, though - not really a topic 
for this particular list.

-- 
Tateru Nino
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/

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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Lance Corrimal]

On Friday 20 August 2010 11:00:35 Stickman wrote:
> > ditto, but i have doubts about the "solve all my problems" part
> > unicode. 'nuff said.
> 
> Well, periods can't be put into the new usernames (Kelly said so
> earlier). So it's a problem for new accounts where unicode is used to
> cheat them. But new accounts can't copy old accounts without a period.
> 
> Stickman


I am not talking about usernames.

I am talking about someone creating any random throwaway user account, then 
setting their DISPLAY NAME to "Stickman Ingman", trusting that enough people 
are stupid enough not to look at the real username and compare it with yours.


bye
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Stickman]

> I am talking about someone creating any random throwaway user account, then
> setting their DISPLAY NAME to "Stickman Ingman", trusting that enough people
> are stupid enough not to look at the real username and compare it with yours.

Yep. I believe this is totally possible for people to do. The FAQs
says it's against TOS to do so for the sake of impersonating someone
else. But as far as I know there is no technical limitation preventing
someone from doing so. I'm willing to accept the possibility of
troubles it will bring because of the freedom it offers in exchange.
If you aren't, you'll have to make some pretty compelling arguments
that convinces LL that the freedom isn't worth it, or can be preserved
through some other method. Convincing me doesn't need to be on your
todo list.

As a side note, I see where you're coming from. In another world, one
with a higher density of matchstick men, I'd agree with you. I think
LL would, too.

Stickman
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Marine Kelley]

The damage done to the reputation of a well known resident can be
immeasurable. It would be irresponsible of LL to let someone impersonate
someone else without giving any way to let the other people around to see
CLEARLY the difference between a user name and a display name. No amount of
ToS waving and legal threatening is going to change that because once the
damage is done, it is too late. It is CAPITAL that a display name CANNOT be
mistaken with a user name, no matter how clever the owner of the display
name is.


On 20 August 2010 12:03, Stickman  wrote:

> > I am talking about someone creating any random throwaway user account,
> then
> > setting their DISPLAY NAME to "Stickman Ingman", trusting that enough
> people
> > are stupid enough not to look at the real username and compare it with
> yours.
>
> Yep. I believe this is totally possible for people to do. The FAQs
> says it's against TOS to do so for the sake of impersonating someone
> else. But as far as I know there is no technical limitation preventing
> someone from doing so. I'm willing to accept the possibility of
> troubles it will bring because of the freedom it offers in exchange.
> If you aren't, you'll have to make some pretty compelling arguments
> that convinces LL that the freedom isn't worth it, or can be preserved
> through some other method. Convincing me doesn't need to be on your
> todo list.
>
> As a side note, I see where you're coming from. In another world, one
> with a higher density of matchstick men, I'd agree with you. I think
> LL would, too.
>
> Stickman
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Stickman]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Marine Kelley  wrote:
> damage is done, it is too late. It is CAPITAL that a display name CANNOT be
> mistaken with a user name, no matter how clever the owner of the display
> name is.

You make a good argument.

How about a solution?

Changing color is one. Might be easy enough. I don't know if LL would accept it.

Changing another property of the name, be it font, size, position,
etc, may be another solution. Font probably not.

Feel free to come up with other solutions on how to avoid mistaking a
display name with a username. I believe LL's purpose is to make
display names seamless. So it needs to be as unobtrusive as possible.
It also needs to be as simple to implement as possible. The easier the
solution, the more likely LL can just drop it in and test it without
losing time.

Good luck!

Stickman
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Marine Kelley]

That's not my job, I am a customer in LL's standpoint, I don't work for
them.

I already talked about possible ways to distinguish a display name from a
user name, for example by putting the display name into brackets in chatlogs
and offline IMs (which are plain text and html respectively), while using a
different color than for user names on the chat and IM while in world (which
is comparable to rich text)/ There are just plenty of ways. What I insist on
is that the information "this name is a display name" must come from the
server, not from the sending viewer. That's the important part.


On 20 August 2010 12:24, Stickman  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Marine Kelley 
> wrote:
> > damage is done, it is too late. It is CAPITAL that a display name CANNOT
> be
> > mistaken with a user name, no matter how clever the owner of the display
> > name is.
>
> You make a good argument.
>
> How about a solution?
>
> Changing color is one. Might be easy enough. I don't know if LL would
> accept it.
>
> Changing another property of the name, be it font, size, position,
> etc, may be another solution. Font probably not.
>
> Feel free to come up with other solutions on how to avoid mistaking a
> display name with a username. I believe LL's purpose is to make
> display names seamless. So it needs to be as unobtrusive as possible.
> It also needs to be as simple to implement as possible. The easier the
> solution, the more likely LL can just drop it in and test it without
> losing time.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Stickman
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Argent Stonecutter]

On 2010-08-19, at 21:42, Bryon Ruxton wrote:
> Argent, Keep in mind once the feature is implemented:
> One will be able to choose "Captain America"
> with captain.america becoming his unique username.
> And it wouldn't be fair to prevent anyone else to RP "Captain America" as
> his display name.

So pick a different name. It's not a great hardship. Legitimate writers and 
artists have had to deal with this problem since, like, Captain America was 
created (no, long before that). It's a trademarked name. I mean, technically, 
you'd need to get Marvel's permission to have Captain America as your username, 
or to have a role-play based on it.

Seriously, I don't see the problem. "That name's taken" is something people 
have had to deal with since the Romans had to call THEIR war-god Mars instead 
of Ares.
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[Lance Corrimal]

On Friday 20 August 2010 13:11:04 Argent Stonecutter wrote:

>  role-play

the point about display names being great for RPers is failing anyways, 
because of the "one change per week" restriction...

how many roleplayers do you know in SL that do not do ANYTHING else, and only 
play ONE rp?


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] Any Email Containing Disply Name in The Subjet

[WolfPup Lowenhar]

This morning I woke up to check my email to find there was a lot of
OpenSource email and I thought kewl look like there are some discussions of
either issues  with building the viewer or maybe even about a new feture
request/porting request, but 

OOO

 I wake up to find people STILL arguing about the display name!

TO me that is not a discussion that should be carried on in this list.

 

There in the past 24-72 hours have been the following:

1.80 emails with the subject - display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

2.20 emails with the subject - Display names, again

 

And frankly that discussion I think does not belong on this list!

 

This list is for discussion of OpenSource SOFTWARE issues related to the
VIEWER not the discussion of what is displayed in the viewer(unless it is a
rendering issue).

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Re: [opensource-dev] Any Email Containing Disply Name in The Subjet

[GridView / FoxSan]

That's quite a large font you are using x.X





2010/8/20 WolfPup Lowenhar 

>  This morning I woke up to check my email to find there was a lot of
> OpenSource email and I thought kewl look like there are some discussions of
> either issues  with building the viewer or maybe even about a new feture
> request/porting request, but
>
> OOO
>
>  I wake up to find people STILL arguing about the display name!
>
> TO me that is not a discussion that should be carried on in this list.
>
>
>
> There in the past 24-72 hours have been the following:
>
> 1.80 emails with the subject – display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
>
> 2.20 emails with the subject – Display names, again
>
>
>
> And frankly that discussion I think does not belong on this list!
>
>
>
> This list is for discussion of OpenSource SOFTWARE issues related to the
> VIEWER not the discussion of what is displayed in the viewer(unless it is a
> rendering issue).
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Any Email Containing Disply Name in The Subjet

[Stickman]

> That's quite a large font you are using x.X

You're doing it wrong.

WolfPup Lowenhar  wrote:
> OOO

My, grandmother! That's such a large font you have!

Stickman
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Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?

[mysticaldemina]

I guess I am sure.

Username is unique, you have to request it.  No two people will have the
same user name.  Sure people can fake it, but no two people will have the
same one at the same time.  And it is possible one person will use a name
for a while then someone else will use that name.  With all the email
regarding this not sure I am following what will be done but I suggest we
assign our current SL name to the username and after that let people request
a new one if it isn't being used.

My name is available and can be changed any time, it is not unique.  It is
informational.

My email is used to log into my twitter account and is not shared publicly
which I think is a more secure way to do things because it is harder for
people to figure out how I log into the account.  In SL we tell everyone
what your account name is.

Sure people fake things, so thanks for the feedback but not sure what your
point is.  Seems SL could do a name verification process like Twitter.

I think the main thing about twitter is I have never been confused between
username and display name.

This seems similar to the needs of SL, so was just sharing I thought it has
worked well.

M.




-Original Message-
From: Opensource Obscure [mailto:o...@autistici.org] 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 4:23 AM
To: mysticaldem...@xrgrid.com
Cc: Daniel Smith; Baloo Uriza; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?


On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:08:07 -0400,  wrote:

> Seems like twitter has a pretty good solution.  Display names are

unique.

> And your login account isn't public so you have better security.



Are you sure? As far as I know, things are quite different:



- login account (that Twitter calls "Username") is public



- in my case, Username = "oobscure"

- full name (properly "Name") in my case is "Opensource Obscure"

- in your case, Name = Username = "MysticalDemina"



- other people publicly use my Username to "mention" me ("@oobscure")

- Twitter website and 3rd party apps show these names in various ways

- you can change both Username and Name in any moment

- by changing your Username, your Twitter URL changes too



Twitter fake personalities indeed exist and that's why Twitter

also implemented the "Verified name" thing, that implies 

an identity verification process.



Opensource Obscure

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[opensource-dev] Off-topic chatter (Was: Display names, again.)

[Jacek Antonelli]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:38 AM, Lance Corrimal
 wrote:
> Is it just me or did the lindens stop replying to this topic?

They probably stopped replying because nearly all of the chatter about
Display Names has been off-topic and inappropriate for this list, and
continuing to discuss it here just further wastes the time of everyone
who subscribed to the list to follow the discussion about Snowglobe,
Snowstorm, and other open source projects at Linden Lab.

- Jacek
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Re: [opensource-dev] Windows Build of Snowstorm (Viewer 2.1.1) (LLKDU)

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Aimee Linden  wrote:

> That's because of the LLKDU issue that Merov is currently working to fix.
> You can work around if for now by replacing the llkdu.dll that comes with
> the development viewer with one from the release viewer.
>

Another way to "fix" it is to simply delete the llkdu.dll. The viewer will
launch using openjpeg to decode textures. A bit slower than kdu but
adequate.

Cheers,
- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 56

[Daniel]

  If the right click drop-down menus are too small a target for people 
to hit, make them larger.  Proper font size for reading (ie chat text), 
is not necessarily the right size for a mouse target area.  Both should 
scale as a preferences setting.  I do like having pie menus as an option.

What I would *really* like to see as a builder, and someone with two 
widescreen monitors, is the ability to drag floaters completely outside 
the perspective view area.  For me, they just get in the way of seeing 
what I am doing.  How much work would be required to enable that I have 
no idea.
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Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 56

[Opensource Obscure]

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:35:18 -0500, Daniel 
wrote:
> If the right click drop-down menus are too small a target for people 
> to hit, make them larger.  Proper font size for reading (ie chat text), 
> is not necessarily the right size for a mouse target area.  Both should 
> scale as a preferences setting.  I do like having pie menus as an
option.
> 
> What I would *really* like to see as a builder, and someone with two 
> widescreen monitors, is the ability to drag floaters completely outside 
> the perspective view area

AFAIK, having two monitors is a use case not officially supported by LL/SL

If I read correctly, you may want to try Icesphere:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Icesphere
http://icyspherical.blogspot.com

Opensource Obscure
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Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.

[Suz Dollar]

My biggest concern here is that the chat logs (local, group, IM) 
register both display and user name as a mandatory part of how chat logs 
work. This will forcefully create way to document that so and so was 
impersonating someone else and acting in a manner unacceptable to the 
real person. I'm not nearly as concerned that someone whose real life 
name is Charlene Trudeau wants her display name to be Charlene Trudeau. 
Esp since MY display name may become Char, or Charlene, or Char @ 
SkyBeam Estates or some other such whatever.

But I'd really like my IM logs, and those others might quote to read 
something like (using the simple last example above ) : 

IM: Char @ SkyBeam Estates (Charlene.Trudeau):  I wish that there was an 
Alt-d hot key to take you to the browser style navigation bar at the top 
for easy entry of a slurl or region name.

That would be my preference for both viewer display and chat logs, but 
definitely would want to see it mandatory on chat logs for any backup 
needed with LL in AR situations or any other disputes.

Char

Marine Kelley wrote:
> That's not my job, I am a customer in LL's standpoint, I don't work 
> for them.
>
> I already talked about possible ways to distinguish a display name 
> from a user name, for example by putting the display name into 
> brackets in chatlogs and offline IMs (which are plain text and html 
> respectively), while using a different color than for user names on 
> the chat and IM while in world (which is comparable to rich text)/ 
> There are just plenty of ways. What I insist on is that the 
> information "this name is a display name" must come from the server, 
> not from the sending viewer. That's the important part.
>
>
> On 20 August 2010 12:24, Stickman  > wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:15 AM, Marine Kelley
> mailto:marinekel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > damage is done, it is too late. It is CAPITAL that a display
> name CANNOT be
> > mistaken with a user name, no matter how clever the owner of the
> display
> > name is.
>
> You make a good argument.
>
> How about a solution?
>
> Changing color is one. Might be easy enough. I don't know if LL
> would accept it.
>
> Changing another property of the name, be it font, size, position,
> etc, may be another solution. Font probably not.
>
> Feel free to come up with other solutions on how to avoid mistaking a
> display name with a username. I believe LL's purpose is to make
> display names seamless. So it needs to be as unobtrusive as possible.
> It also needs to be as simple to implement as possible. The easier the
> solution, the more likely LL can just drop it in and test it without
> losing time.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Stickman
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Lance Corrimal
wrote:

> is it just my failing eyesight, or is there no "allow create landmark"
> checkbox in "about land" in 2.1 (snowglobe 2.1.0 r3622) ???
>
>
Darn! We didn't specifically work on that so it has to be the result of a
bogus merge or may be pulling something from viewer-external UI modifs that
was not completely baked.

Can someone look into the xui?

Cheers,
- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 56

[WolfPup Lowenhar]

On this subject yes that option is available but if you want to use that
option using the newer viewer you would have to build it yourself while
porting a specific patch to make that functional and also there is another
issue with icesphere concerning using it on windows vista/7.

-Original Message-
From: opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com
[mailto:opensource-dev-boun...@lists.secondlife.com] On Behalf Of Opensource
Obscure
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:39 AM
To: Daniel
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 56


On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:35:18 -0500, Daniel 
wrote:
> If the right click drop-down menus are too small a target for people 
> to hit, make them larger.  Proper font size for reading (ie chat text), 
> is not necessarily the right size for a mouse target area.  Both should 
> scale as a preferences setting.  I do like having pie menus as an
option.
> 
> What I would *really* like to see as a builder, and someone with two 
> widescreen monitors, is the ability to drag floaters completely outside 
> the perspective view area

AFAIK, having two monitors is a use case not officially supported by LL/SL

If I read correctly, you may want to try Icesphere:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Icesphere
http://icyspherical.blogspot.com

Opensource Obscure
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privileges
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/20/10
02:35:00

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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Aimee Linden]

That's not a Snowglobe issue ... http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18886

Aimee.

On 20 Aug 2010, at 14:51, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Lance Corrimal  
> wrote:
> is it just my failing eyesight, or is there no "allow create landmark"
> checkbox in "about land" in 2.1 (snowglobe 2.1.0 r3622) ???
> 
> 
> Darn! We didn't specifically work on that so it has to be the result of a 
> bogus merge or may be pulling something from viewer-external UI modifs that 
> was not completely baked.
> 
> Can someone look into the xui?
> 
> Cheers,
> - Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Aimee Linden]

Apparently this option is no longer supported on the server, so it was removed 
from the viewer as it will have no effect.

Aimee.

On 20 Aug 2010, at 15:17, Aimee Linden wrote:

> That's not a Snowglobe issue ... http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-18886
> 
> Aimee.
> 
> On 20 Aug 2010, at 14:51, Philippe (Merov) Bossut wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Lance Corrimal  
>> wrote:
>> is it just my failing eyesight, or is there no "allow create landmark"
>> checkbox in "about land" in 2.1 (snowglobe 2.1.0 r3622) ???
>> 
>> 
>> Darn! We didn't specifically work on that so it has to be the result of a 
>> bogus merge or may be pulling something from viewer-external UI modifs that 
>> was not completely baked.
>> 
>> Can someone look into the xui?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> - Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] opensource-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 56

[Suz Dollar]

>> What I would *really* like to see as a builder, and someone with two 
>> widescreen monitors, is the ability to drag floaters completely outside 
>> the perspective view area
>> 
>
> AFAIK, having two monitors is a use case not officially supported by LL/SL
>   

Perhaps not, but even with a single large format lcd, floaters 
completely outside the perspective view area would be AWESOME. I'd vote 
for this one in a heartbeat.

Char
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Boroondas Gupte]

 On 08/20/2010 05:26 PM, Aimee Linden wrote:
> Apparently this option is no longer supported on the server, so it was
> removed from the viewer as it will have no effect.
Does that mean that everyone can create landmarks everywhere or that
only users with privileges (owner/group role) on the land in question
can create landmarks? I hope it's the former, which would be consistent
with the fact that everyone can (trivially) create SLurls pointing
anywhere they want.

cheers
Boroondas
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Friday 20 August 2010 schrieb Aimee Linden:
> Apparently this option is no longer supported on the server, so it
> was removed from the viewer as it will have no effect.

does that mean that now anyone can create landmarks anywhere no matter 
what?


bye,
LC
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Re: [opensource-dev] To Pie or To List

[Ricky]

Delete only drops it into your Trash folder, so I find that it's not
that big of an issue to "Delete" an object.  It's only different from
"Take" in the destination folder!

Your point about removing the entries makes to me.

Ricky
Cron Stardust

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Opensource Obscure  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:48:52 -0700, Ricky  wrote:
>> Either way, I still see it as of little use with objects I own or am
>> the creator of!
>>
>> As regards the order for objects for which I am neither creator nor
>> owner I have no suggestion.  The current order might make sense.  Then
>> again, Do I ever have permission to /Delete/ someone else's objects?
>> Not so far as I know.  /Return/ would be the only available option,
>> and then only if I have edit privs on the owner's goods, am in a group
>> that allows me to return other's goods on the given parcel, or am the
>> landowner.
>>
>> This is starting to sound like it's time for a list:
>> * I am Owner
>> ** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (Doesn't make sense!)
>> ** "Block" is active (I may want to mute my own objects after all!)
>> ** "Return" is deactivated
>> ** "Delete" is active
>> * I am Creator but not Owner and I have no privileges granted
>> ** "Report Abuse" is deactivated (NOTE)
>> ** "Block" is active
>> ** "Return" is deactivated
>> ** "Delete" is deactivated
>> * I have been either granted Edit on the Owner's goods, am a member of
>> a group that the land is deeded to, the group I'm a part of has return
>> privs, or I am the land owner:
>> ** "Report Abuse" is active
>> ** "Block" is active
>> ** "Return" is active
>> ** "Delete" is deactivated (Unless for some reason land owners can
>> delete objects This I am unsure of.  Typically I've seen them
>> return items.)
>> * Otherwise (Not Creator, Not Owner, No Privs)
>> ** "Report Abuse" is active
>> ** "Block" is active
>> ** "Return" is deactivated
>> ** "Delete" is deactivated
>>
>> (NOTE) There may be a use case here for "Report Abuse" to be active on
>> an object I am the creator of, but not the owner: If the object is
>> modifiable, it's parts may have been used to make something offensive.
>>  I'd rather keep the option open in this case.
>>
>> Order may be largely a preference, but I think that "Delete" should be
>> topmost, if available as an option.  However this may create another
>> usability issue if the order of items in the menu follows a logical,
>> but seemingly random to beginners, order depending on context: A first
>> timer would have difficulty knowing beforehand which item will be in
>> what position in the menu.  So the order may need to be fixed, just
>> having unusable elements grayed out and deactivated in certain
>> contexts.
>
> If our aim is to make the menu lighter, cleaner and simpler to
> read, especially for a newbie, I'd prefer to completely hide
> those entries from the menu. Grayed and deactivated entries
> are still being read and their meaning is processed by the
> brain, so it's only a partial semplification.
>
> If the problem is only that one risks to return or abuse-report
> her stuff, I find it to be a very small and low-priority problem,
> as both those features have a confirmation window.
>
> Personally, I think Delete should be in a submenu and it should NOT
> be easily available, as we want to avoid it being triggered by error.
>
> Opensource Obscure
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Tori C.]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Boroondas Gupte <
slli...@boroon.dasgupta.ch> wrote:

> Does that mean that everyone can create landmarks everywhere or that
> only users with privileges (owner/group role) on the land in question
> can create landmarks? I hope it's the former, which would be consistent
> with the fact that everyone can (trivially) create SLurls pointing
> anywhere they want.
>

Allowed by all, apparently.  For the last few server versions, that flag's
been getting reset to allow all at restart time. It's kind of weird that it
bothers saving the setting even temporarily on a running sim. There is still
a permission check in Viewer 2, but header comments that it's going away
some day, on both server and viewer side it looks like a change that was
started and never quite got finished :/
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Re: [opensource-dev] Mac Build Failing

[Aimee Linden]

That looks like https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-742 which is fixed in 
the viewer-public internal branch (which is where viewer-external on SVN comes 
from) and will hopefully be merged into viewer-development soon.

Aimee.

On 20 Aug 2010, at 03:18, Ricky wrote:

> I've pulled rev 11450 (tip at the moment), then cd'd into indra ran
> develop.py and the compile failed. More info on procedures I used
> after the system specs.
> 
> Hardware Overview:
>  Model Name:  Mac mini aluminum
>  Model Identifier:Macmini4,1
>  Processor Name:  Intel Core 2 Duo
>  Processor Speed: 2.66 GHz
>  Number Of Processors:1
>  Total Number Of Cores:   2
>  L2 Cache:3 MB
>  Memory:  8 GB
>  Bus Speed:   1.07 GHz
> 
> System Software Overview:
>  System Version:  Mac OS X 10.6.4 (10F2025)
>  Kernel Version:  Darwin 10.4.1
>  Boot Volume: System Drive
>  Boot Mode:   Normal
>  Secure Virtual Memory:   Not Enabled
>  64-bit Kernel and Extensions:No
> 
> Procedure 1: (It defaulted to RelWithDebInfo)
> hg pull
> hg up
> cd indra
> ./develop.py configure
> ./develop.py build
> 
> Error:
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> ** BUILD FAILED **
> 
> The following build commands failed:
> package:
>   PhaseScriptExecution "CMake PostBuild Rules"
> /Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/newview/SecondLife.build/RelWithDebInfo/package.build/Script-1C6E7B01C6E7B01C6E7B.sh
> (1 failure)
> 
> Error: the command 'xcodebuild' exited with status 1
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> 
> Procedure 2: (Switching to Release.  Took longer, failed anyway.)
> hg pull
> hg up
> cd indra
> ./develop.py -t Release configure
> ./develop.py -t Release build
> 
> Error:
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> ** BUILD FAILED **
> 
> The following build commands failed:
> INTEGRATION_TEST_llsecapi:
>   Ld 
> /Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/sharedlibs/Release/Release/INTEGRATION_TEST_llsecapi
> normal i386
>   PhaseScriptExecution "CMake PostBuild Rules"
> /Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/newview/SecondLife.build/Release/INTEGRATION_TEST_llsecapi.build/Script-1BC14D01BC14D01BC14D.sh
> package:
>   PhaseScriptExecution "CMake PostBuild Rules"
> /Users/ricky/Development/linden/indra/build-darwin-i386/newview/SecondLife.build/Release/package.build/Script-1C6E9E01C6E9E01C6E9E.sh
> (3 failures)
> 
> Error: the command 'xcodebuild' exited with status 1
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> 
> What should I do? Is this a known issue?
> 
> Ricky
> Cron Stardust
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Re: [opensource-dev] no "allow create landmark" in 2.1?

[Argent]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Aimee Linden  wrote:
> Apparently this option is no longer supported on the server,

If this means you can now create landmarks anywhere, three cheers!
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[opensource-dev] SCRUM question: negative daily velocity

[Moriz Gupte]

May I venture to share these questions:
Regarding the snowstorm sprint2 backlog: I have always tried to observe
other teams using scrum and I have a question regarding negative daily
velocity values. I am not familiar with this and am thinking if this is the
case, then it could mean that burndown graph Y axis would need negative
values as well?? What does negative daily velocity actually mean? just a
reflection of a task having been underestimated?
R

'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State
University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333
Blog ,
LinkedIn
, Play2Train 
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