Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Carlo Wood]

What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>It would 
> be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same committers will 
> take on the extra load to help move to hg.

-- 
Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Jonathan Irvin]

If I'm not mistaken, Hg is distributed like Git.

Jonathan Irvin


On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 05:12, Carlo Wood  wrote:

> What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> >It would
> > be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same committers will
> > take on the extra load to help move to hg.
>
> --
> Carlo Wood 
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[opensource-dev] llcamera

[Thomas Schindler]

Hi there,

I have a question to the llcamera.cpp code. There is a function that
calculates frustum planes. Four variables are existing: top, bottom,
left, right. The bottom is the negative value of top, the same with
left and write. If I change now the values and add +20 behind left and
right, I expected an effect in which my avatar would stand not in the
middle of the viewer window, but somewhere more left or right. But if I
compile and run the viewer, I don't see any difference. Does anybody
can explain it to me, please?

Thanks in advance
Thomas



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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Brent Tubbs]

Yes hg (mercurial) is distributed.  It also thinks in terms of "changesets"
rather than "versions".

Joel Spolsky of the Joel on Software blog just did a very nice intro and
tutorial on Mercurial that you can read at http:///hginit.com .  The first
section in particular highlights the differences between Mercurial and
Subversion.

Brent

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jonathan Irvin wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, Hg is distributed like Git.
>
> Jonathan Irvin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 05:12, Carlo Wood  wrote:
>
>> What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> >It would
>> > be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same committers will
>> > take on the extra load to help move to hg.
>>
>> --
>> Carlo Wood 
>> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Ron Festa]

Then why Hg over Git?

Ron Festa
Virtual Worlds Admin
Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
Phone: 732-474-8583


On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Jonathan Irvin wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, Hg is distributed like Git.
>
> Jonathan Irvin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 05:12, Carlo Wood  wrote:
>
>> What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
>> >It would
>> > be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same committers will
>> > take on the extra load to help move to hg.
>>
>> --
>> Carlo Wood 
>> ___
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
>> privileges
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Dzonatas Sol]

Cool intro!

Here is a rosetta stone to add, for those use to git to help understand hg:

http://wiki.sympy.org/wiki/Git_hg_rosetta_stone#Rosetta_Stone


Brent Tubbs wrote:
> Yes hg (mercurial) is distributed. �It also thinks in terms of 
> "changesets" rather than "versions".
>
> Joel Spolsky of the Joel on Software blog just did a very nice intro 
> and tutorial on Mercurial that you can read at http:///hginit.com 
>  . �The first section in particular highlights the 
> differences between Mercurial and Subversion.
>
> Brent
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jonathan Irvin  > wrote:
>
> If I'm not mistaken, Hg is distributed like Git.
>
> Jonathan Irvin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 05:12, Carlo Wood  > wrote:
>
> What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> > � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �
> � �It would
> > be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same
> committers will
> > take on the extra load to help move to hg.
>
> --
> Carlo Wood mailto:ca...@alinoe.com>>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Dzonatas Sol]

For one, http://hgbook.red-bean.com/

Bryan O'Sullivan has worked at LL, so there is the obvious uptake there 
with his work on hg.

Yes, the greater community has used git, yet the main point is we need 
to expire svn in order to help maintain merges easier and in a more 
distributed fashion. LL uses hg internally.


Ron Festa wrote:
> Then why Hg over Git?
>
> Ron Festa
> Virtual Worlds Admin
> Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
> PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
> Phone: 732-474-8583
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Jonathan Irvin  > wrote:
>
> If I'm not mistaken, Hg is distributed like Git.
>
> Jonathan Irvin
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 05:12, Carlo Wood  > wrote:
>
> What is the advantage again of hg (over svn)? (why the move)
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 05:18:54PM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> > � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �
> � �It would
> > be the wrong impression, further, to assume the same
> committers will
> > take on the extra load to help move to hg.
>
> --
> Carlo Wood mailto:ca...@alinoe.com>>
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[opensource-dev] Meadhbh Hamrick is no longer at Linden Research

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

Hey Everybody,

As many of you know, over the past year I've been working for Linden
Research on virtual worlds interoperability. Specifically, I've been
working with the IETF to establish working groups to develop open
virtual world interoperability. I've also been writing internet drafts
and supporting third party developers who are implementing the VWRAP
specifications.

But recently, I left the lab. The decision was amicable and mutual. It
does not mean the lab has abandoned it's work on interoperability;
only that it will be done by a different team. I am continuing to
participate in the Virtual World Region Agent Protocol working group
at the IETF and will likely author or contribute to further internet
drafts.

I'm happy to talk to anyone regarding generic virtual world
architecture issues, but clearly specific questions regarding second
life and linden's future plans for VWRAP should be directed to the
lab.

-Sincerely
-Meadhbh Hamrick (formerly Infinity Linden)
--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * ohmead...@gmail.com
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Carlo Wood]

Doesn't hg use diff3 in the end, to do the merges?
Every repository does.

The difference between CVS and subversion was that CVS applies
diff3 on the source files, and therefore couldn't deal with
renaming files at all.  Subversion has the provision of remembering
file renaming separately, so it can front-end that for diff3.

hg doesn't add anything in that regard it seems. Surely it
remembers renaming of files, cool-- so does subversion.

What cutting a complete function out of one file and moving it
to a different place in the same file, or moving it to another
file? (function aware).

What about adding namespaces around functions, so that the
functions are the same, but inside a namespace now? (C++ / namespace aware)

What about indenting and other whitespace changes?

Does it do (merge) that? Does it do anything new?

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 09:41:43AM -0700, Dzonatas Sol wrote:
> Yes, the greater community has used git, yet the main point is we need 
> to expire svn in order to help maintain merges easier and in a more 
> distributed fashion. LL uses hg internally.

-- 
Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Carlo Wood]

Actually, I think I understand why.

LL is using hg internally, and has been for a while.
They just pushed things out as svn for public access, but that process
caused all the meta data to be lost and had to be done manually, and
therefore only sometimes in big large chunks.

It is for the benefit of snowglobe that commits to the internal
repository are available with meta data and as the original change sets,
once they are merged with the public repository.

With hg this is possible: just push the changeset to the "public
hg repository", but only if that public repository run hg itself.

On top of that, merging branches is much easier (according to
http://hginit.com/00.html), that holds for merging changes from internal
into snowglobe but also for TPV's assuming they switch to hg as well.
It should become much easier for us and for others using hg to merge
'upstream' changes with the ever growning set of local patches and
extensions.

-- 
Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Jacek Antonelli]

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Carlo Wood  wrote:
> Actually, I think I understand why.
>
> LL is using hg internally, and has been for a while.
> They just pushed things out as svn for public access, but that process
> caused all the meta data to be lost and had to be done manually, and
> therefore only sometimes in big large chunks.
>
> It is for the benefit of snowglobe that commits to the internal
> repository are available with meta data and as the original change sets,
> once they are merged with the public repository.
>
> With hg this is possible: just push the changeset to the "public
> hg repository", but only if that public repository run hg itself.
>
> On top of that, merging branches is much easier (according to
> http://hginit.com/00.html), that holds for merging changes from internal
> into snowglobe but also for TPV's assuming they switch to hg as well.
> It should become much easier for us and for others using hg to merge
> 'upstream' changes with the ever growning set of local patches and
> extensions.

Yep, I would guess those are all some of LL's reasons for switching
away from SVN.

Also, speaking from my experience using SVN for several years before
switching to Git (which is close enough to Hg), using a distributed
version control system just changes the way you work, and the way you
think about version control and software development. Personally, I
think that mental shift is even more important than the new features
and tools and easy merges (which are also very nice, of course).

Think of the old lock-based systems, where one team member would
"check out" a file, and no one else could edit it until they were
done. Once people switched to systems like CVS or SVN that let all the
developers keep working without blocking each other (as much), it
really altered and improved how software was developed and how teams
worked together. Distributed systems take this to the next step, and
again it alters and improves the way developers work and collaborate.

Plus everything's just way faster. :-D I never realized how much time
I spent waiting for a SVN commit to finish -- or even checking the log
-- until I used Git. Now I'm completely spoiled, and waiting 10
seconds to contact the server just to look at the log, or 30 seconds
(or even minutes (!) for big changes) to commit feels like an eternity
to me. It may seem like a little thing, but it feels so much nicer
when nearly every operation is near-instantaneous.

- Jacek
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Re: [opensource-dev] llcamera

[Jacek Antonelli]

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Thomas Schindler
 wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I have a question to the llcamera.cpp code. There is a function that
> calculates frustum planes. Four variables are existing: top, bottom, left,
> right. The bottom is the negative value of top, the same with left and
> write. If I change now the values and add +20 behind left and right, I
> expected an effect in which my avatar would stand not in the middle of the
> viewer window, but somewhere more left or right. But if I compile and run
> the viewer, I don't see any difference. Does anybody can explain it to me,
> please?

I'm not an OpenGL expert, but I believe the frustum is used for
determining whether an object can be seen from the current camera view
(e.g. it's not behind the camera or off to the sides). I don't think
the frustum controls the camera position or rotation, though. For
that, I think you want to look at the LLCoordFrame class
(llmath/llcoordframe.cpp), which is inherited by the llCamera class.

Hope that helps. :-)

- Jacek
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe Mecurial Repository

[Brad Kittenbrink (Brad Linden)]

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Jacek Antonelli
wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Carlo Wood  wrote:
> > Actually, I think I understand why.
> >
> > LL is using hg internally, and has been for a while.
> > They just pushed things out as svn for public access, but that process
> > caused all the meta data to be lost and had to be done manually, and
> > therefore only sometimes in big large chunks.
> >
> > It is for the benefit of snowglobe that commits to the internal
> > repository are available with meta data and as the original change sets,
> > once they are merged with the public repository.
> >
> > With hg this is possible: just push the changeset to the "public
> > hg repository", but only if that public repository run hg itself.
> >
> > On top of that, merging branches is much easier (according to
> > http://hginit.com/00.html), that holds for merging changes from internal
> > into snowglobe but also for TPV's assuming they switch to hg as well.
> > It should become much easier for us and for others using hg to merge
> > 'upstream' changes with the ever growning set of local patches and
> > extensions.
>
> Yep, I would guess those are all some of LL's reasons for switching
> away from SVN.
>
> Also, speaking from my experience using SVN for several years before
> switching to Git (which is close enough to Hg), using a distributed
> version control system just changes the way you work, and the way you
> think about version control and software development. Personally, I
> think that mental shift is even more important than the new features
> and tools and easy merges (which are also very nice, of course).
>
> Think of the old lock-based systems, where one team member would
> "check out" a file, and no one else could edit it until they were
> done. Once people switched to systems like CVS or SVN that let all the
> developers keep working without blocking each other (as much), it
> really altered and improved how software was developed and how teams
> worked together. Distributed systems take this to the next step, and
> again it alters and improves the way developers work and collaborate.
>
> Plus everything's just way faster. :-D I never realized how much time
> I spent waiting for a SVN commit to finish -- or even checking the log
> -- until I used Git. Now I'm completely spoiled, and waiting 10
> seconds to contact the server just to look at the log, or 30 seconds
> (or even minutes (!) for big changes) to commit feels like an eternity
> to me. It may seem like a little thing, but it feels so much nicer
> when nearly every operation is near-instantaneous.
>
> - Jacek
>

also, some of us use hg-git internally, http://hg-git.github.com/

I won't comment on which direction we're converting things. ;)

-Brad
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Re: [opensource-dev] Meadhbh Hamrick is no longer at Linden Research

[Lawson English]

Hey Meadhbh, I was sad to hear that news. You'll still be lurking in 
Groupies once in a while, I hope.

Lawson (Saijanai)

Meadhbh Hamrick wrote:
> Hey Everybody,
>
> As many of you know, over the past year I've been working for Linden
> Research on virtual worlds interoperability. Specifically, I've been
> working with the IETF to establish working groups to develop open
> virtual world interoperability. I've also been writing internet drafts
> and supporting third party developers who are implementing the VWRAP
> specifications.
>
> But recently, I left the lab. The decision was amicable and mutual. It
> does not mean the lab has abandoned it's work on interoperability;
> only that it will be done by a different team. I am continuing to
> participate in the Virtual World Region Agent Protocol working group
> at the IETF and will likely author or contribute to further internet
> drafts.
>
> I'm happy to talk to anyone regarding generic virtual world
> architecture issues, but clearly specific questions regarding second
> life and linden's future plans for VWRAP should be directed to the
> lab.
>
> -Sincerely
> -Meadhbh Hamrick (formerly Infinity Linden)
> --
> meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
> @OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * ohmead...@gmail.com
> ___
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[opensource-dev] left and right arrows change to strafing in mouselook

[SuezanneC Baskerville]

A thread about WASD keys caused me to think of something that has always
bugged me about SL, the way the left and right arrow keys change from
rotating to strafing when you enter mouselook.   This not being a combat
game, there doesn't seem much point to this.  Because of this, I hardly ever
use mouselook.  I suspect this seems senseless and is annoying to many other
non-gamers.

Perhaps making this optional would be appropriate for Snowglobe.

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o m
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