Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 10:42:53PM -0700, Joshua M. Clulow via openindiana-discuss wrote: > > As suggested in the ticket, I would: > > # routeadm -d ipv4-routing -u > > The "svc:/network/routing/route:default" instance should then be > disabled, unlike in your output above. I have two different routing configurations. The first is for a system that acts as a NAT router using ipfilter. /etc/defaultrouter does not exist. It has two ethernet interfaces. One connects to my cable modem. The other goes to my private network, through a switch: $ routeadm Configuration Current Current Option ConfigurationSystem State --- IPv4 routing disabled disabled IPv6 routing disabled disabled IPv4 forwarding enabled enabled IPv6 forwarding disabled disabled ... The "IPv4 forwarding" setting is required by ipfilter. The other configuration is for a typical system on my private network, using all the defaults, with a single ethernet: $ routeadm Configuration Current Current Option ConfigurationSystem State --- IPv4 routing enabled enabled IPv6 routing disabled disabled IPv4 forwarding disabled disabled IPv6 forwarding disabled disabled ... -- -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada- ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On 13/04/2022 16:32, Gary Mills wrote: On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 10:42:53PM -0700, Joshua M. Clulow via openindiana-discuss wrote: As suggested in the ticket, I would: # routeadm -d ipv4-routing -u The "svc:/network/routing/route:default" instance should then be disabled, unlike in your output above. I have two different routing configurations. The first is for a system that acts as a NAT router using ipfilter. /etc/defaultrouter does not exist. It has two ethernet interfaces. One connects to my cable modem. The other goes to my private network, through a switch: $ routeadm Configuration Current Current Option ConfigurationSystem State --- IPv4 routing disabled disabled IPv6 routing disabled disabled IPv4 forwarding enabled enabled IPv6 forwarding disabled disabled ... The "IPv4 forwarding" setting is required by ipfilter. The other configuration is for a typical system on my private network, using all the defaults, with a single ethernet: $ routeadm Configuration Current Current Option ConfigurationSystem State --- IPv4 routing enabled enabled IPv6 routing disabled disabled IPv4 forwarding disabled disabled IPv6 forwarding disabled disabled ... This is what a typical off-the-shelf client machine should look like: # routeadm Configuration Current Current Option ConfigurationSystem State --- IPv4 routing disabled disabled IPv6 routing disabled disabled IPv4 forwarding disabled disabled IPv6 forwarding disabled disabled Routing services "route:default ripng:default" Routing daemons: STATE FMRI disabled svc:/network/routing/legacy-routing:ipv4 disabled svc:/network/routing/legacy-routing:ipv6 disabled svc:/network/routing/rdisc:default disabled svc:/network/routing/route:default disabled svc:/network/routing/ripng:default online svc:/network/routing/ndp:default ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
- Op 13 apr 2022 om 6:32 schreef Judah Richardson judahrichard...@gmail.com: > I can confirm that mousing over the network tray icon in MATE results in a > popup that shows both the network profile and location are set to Automatic. As you can read at "Troubleshooting NWAM" there is an option of at least two models, svcs physical:default or svcs physical:nwam The Troubleshooting NWAM warns that in some cases after a while Automatic could change to NoNet. http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking You can also check with "svcs -a | grep physical". In addition there is a log file : /var/sadm/system/logs/install_log The install_log of the OS records some of the answers that you typed while you installed the OS. You made some choices during the install, and for example there can be a line in install_log : network_type.py:174 Configuring NIC as: automatic or network_type.py;174 Configuring NIC as: manual This depends on the answers you enter for the install screens. obviously there are some many different scenario's and perhaps you entered some incorrect choices. You could check the /var/sadm/system/logs/install_log to see whether there is a hint in there about how this perhaps accidentally happened. Regards, David Stes ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
- Op 12 apr 2022 om 20:00 schreef John D Groenveld groenv...@acm.org: > svc:/network/routing/route is enabled out of the box with > OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso I can't reproduce this. When I install from the OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso it does not enable routing/route. Also my OpenIndiana system (Dell Precision 3640 with 2 NIC, 1 e1000g0 and 1 igb0) is not running in.routed, route:default) and is fairly up to date with recent OI. I didn't have to disable in.routed or route:default , by default it was NOT enabled. When I install from the OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso $ cat OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso.sha256sum 08d938497dfb39ab51da598437cc4cadcad9c936a9371c58520fe8e99431e86d OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso after the install (where I selected "Automatic" for the NIC, a single NIC), I login and routeadm shows : IPV4routing disabled Udo Grabowski will be pleased to read that :-) Can you be more specific please and check the "nwadmadm list" on your server and /var/sadm/system/logs/install_log. Maybe there is a specific scenario where indeed route:default is enabled, as also confirmed in https://www.illumos.org/issues/14006 In fact the bug report 14006 refers to the manpage of routeadm which describes some conditions where routing is ENABLED indeed, so there is something that can indeed enable route:default accidentally. However the bug report 14006 does not say this is OpenIndiana specific, it is a Illumos bug report possibly for a different distribution ? However when I test this , I have no /etc/defaultrouter and route:default is not enabled. For me on my test system "nwamadm list" shows "ncp Automatic online". in.routed is not running, routeadm shows all disabled I mean: the command routeadm after a fresh install of 202110 shows IPv4 and IPv6 forwarding and routing disabled. Note however that the installer has multiple options, so I installed using 1 NIC here and choose network type 'Automatic'. Finally to touch a painful issue: the type 'Automatic' is possible NOT the best choice for servers. The documentation http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking writes: "While usually server and desktop installations tend to use default network configurations, laptop users can leverage nwam network configuations." So that doc positions NWAM as a solution for 'laptop users'. Opinions may differ ... Regards, David Stes ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On 13/04/2022 20:04, s...@pandora.be wrote: - Op 12 apr 2022 om 20:00 schreef John D Groenveld groenv...@acm.org: svc:/network/routing/route is enabled out of the box with OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso I can't reproduce this. When I install from the OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso it does not enable routing/route. Also my OpenIndiana system (Dell Precision 3640 with 2 NIC, 1 e1000g0 and 1 igb0) is not running in.routed, route:default) and is fairly up to date with recent OI. I didn't have to disable in.routed or route:default , by default it was NOT enabled. When I install from the OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso $ cat OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso.sha256sum 08d938497dfb39ab51da598437cc4cadcad9c936a9371c58520fe8e99431e86d OI-hipster-text-20211031.iso after the install (where I selected "Automatic" for the NIC, a single NIC), I login and routeadm shows : IPV4routing disabled Udo Grabowski will be pleased to read that :-) Yeah, indeed ! Can you be more specific please and check the "nwadmadm list" on your server and /var/sadm/system/logs/install_log. Maybe there is a specific scenario where indeed route:default is enabled, as also confirmed in https://www.illumos.org/issues/14006 In fact the bug report 14006 refers to the manpage of routeadm which describes some conditions where routing is ENABLED indeed, so there is something that can indeed enable route:default accidentally. However the bug report 14006 does not say this is OpenIndiana specific, it is a Illumos bug report possibly for a different distribution ? However when I test this , I have no /etc/defaultrouter and route:default is not enabled. But what happens if you place an *empty* /etc/defaultrouter there ? For me on my test system "nwamadm list" shows "ncp Automatic online". in.routed is not running, routeadm shows all disabled I mean: the command routeadm after a fresh install of 202110 shows IPv4 and IPv6 forwarding and routing disabled. Note however that the installer has multiple options, so I installed using 1 NIC here and choose network type 'Automatic'. Finally to touch a painful issue: the type 'Automatic' is possible NOT the best choice for servers. The documentation http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking writes: "While usually server and desktop installations tend to use default network configurations, laptop users can leverage nwam network configuations." So that doc positions NWAM as a solution for 'laptop users'. Opinions may differ ... Regards, David Stes ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
- Op 13 apr 2022 om 20:10 schreef Udo Grabowski (IMK) udo.grabow...@kit.edu: > But what happens if you place an *empty* /etc/defaultrouter there ? I didn't test that. However I just rebooted my test server which I had installed from OI-hipster-202110 and then I can reproduce the problem. On the first boot, route:default was disabled. On the second boot, route:default was enabled. Bad news ... So that confirms https://www.illumos.org/issues/14006 On my OpenIndiana workstation with the 2 interfaces (e1000g0 and igb0) I have not observed such a thing. Regards, David Stes ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:04:40PM +0200, s...@pandora.be wrote: > The documentation > http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking > writes: > "While usually server and desktop installations tend to use default > network configurations, laptop users can leverage nwam network > configuations." That really means: "in an envionment where the network configuration changes frequently". > So that doc positions NWAM as a solution for 'laptop users'. > Opinions may differ ... NWAM actually works well in many situations. -- -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada- ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
- Op 13 apr 2022 om 21:02 schreef gary mills gary_mi...@fastmail.fm: >> So that doc positions NWAM as a solution for 'laptop users'. >> Opinions may differ ... > > NWAM actually works well in many situations. That's true. Maybe the doc could be rephrased. Also describing Network Auto-Magic (NWAM) as a new approach is not entirely up to date in 2022. Anyway http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking is a valuable doc. It could indicate that NWAM has proven itself over the years as a good or best choice for servers. Regards, David Stes ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 2:03 PM Gary Mills wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:04:40PM +0200, s...@pandora.be wrote: > > > The documentation > > > http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking > > writes: > > > "While usually server and desktop installations tend to use default > > network configurations, laptop users can leverage nwam network > > configuations." > > That really means: "in an envionment where the network configuration > changes frequently". > Speaking as an experimental user (read: OI is not my daily driver) who acknowledges OI inherits a lot of internal functionality from a server/workstation distro (openSolaris): all of this strikes me as anachronistically(?) complicated for something that should by default expect to get an IP address lease from any DHCP server on a network to which it's connected. Or, put more simply: it assumes a lot of network complexity that isn't there for most (home) networks. I'm not necessarily advocating for it to change since I don't have the time to do it and clearly it seems to work for many people; just making an observation. I can't think of any other OS I've used (Android, Linux, Windows, (Free)BSD) for which maintaining a network connection isn't anything more than connecting an Ethernet cable. > > > So that doc positions NWAM as a solution for 'laptop users'. > > Opinions may differ ... > > NWAM actually works well in many situations. > > > -- > -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, > Canada- > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
- Op 13 apr 2022 om 21:13 schreef Judah Richardson judahrichard...@gmail.com: > Speaking as an experimental user (read: OI is not my daily driver) who > acknowledges OI inherits a lot of internal functionality from a > server/workstation distro (openSolaris): all of this strikes me as > anachronistically(?) complicated for something that should by default > expect to get an IP address lease from any DHCP server on a network to > which it's connected. It's not really anachronistic. It's just that there is an enormous amount of history behind the networking stack and OpenIndiana is the kind of operating system distribution where users appreciate "old conventions" for configuring the network. I appreciate the attempt (and necessity) in Illumos/OI for retaining backward compatibility with the network configuration scripts and methods of the past ... In the case of the route:default service the manifest still has : $ grep enable /lib/svc/manifest/network/routing/route.xml When I attempted to reproduce the issue, initially it seems on first boot that the service was created disabled. So at first I thought I could not reproduce it. The installer seems to create route:default in disabled state (as it should). Something seemed to have enabled it on the second boot for me. Anyway the method to disable route:default (if it is not needed) is described in https://www.illumos.org/issues/14006 Regards, David Stes ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
> On 13. Apr 2022, at 22:32, s...@pandora.be wrote: > > > - Op 13 apr 2022 om 21:13 schreef Judah Richardson > judahrichard...@gmail.com: > >> Speaking as an experimental user (read: OI is not my daily driver) who >> acknowledges OI inherits a lot of internal functionality from a >> server/workstation distro (openSolaris): all of this strikes me as >> anachronistically(?) complicated for something that should by default >> expect to get an IP address lease from any DHCP server on a network to >> which it's connected. > > It's not really anachronistic. It's just that there is an enormous amount of > history behind the networking stack and OpenIndiana is the kind of operating > system distribution where users appreciate "old conventions" for configuring > the network. > This is just bad excuse to have mess about how you configure your network. rgds, toomas ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On 13/04/2022 21:13, Judah Richardson wrote: On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 2:03 PM Gary Mills wrote: On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 08:04:40PM +0200, s...@pandora.be wrote: The documentation http://docs.openindiana.org/handbook/systems-administration/#configuring-networking writes: "While usually server and desktop installations tend to use default network configurations, laptop users can leverage nwam network configuations." That really means: "in an envionment where the network configuration changes frequently". Speaking as an experimental user (read: OI is not my daily driver) who acknowledges OI inherits a lot of internal functionality from a server/workstation distro (openSolaris): all of this strikes me as anachronistically(?) complicated for something that should by default expect to get an IP address lease from any DHCP server on a network to which it's connected. Or, put more simply: it assumes a lot of network complexity that isn't there for most (home) networks. I'm not necessarily advocating for it to change since I don't have the time to do it and clearly it seems to work for many people; just making an observation. I can't think of any other OS I've used (Android, Linux, Windows, (Free)BSD) for which maintaining a network connection isn't anything more than connecting an Ethernet cable. > The facts are that server environments can be really involved (and even Desktops), and NWAM isn't fit for such complications. E.g., today I had a rather simple task: Copy a network configuration from one wall connector to another, and our guys from the central network messed it up... The simple task was: configure one TX wall outlet to carry two tagged VLANs. Instead, they distributed them untagged across two connectors. My fixed config (without NWAM) made at least one connection visible, so that I could diagnose and recover. NWAM would have messed that up completely as it cannot (at least to my knowledge) cope with tagged VLANs, leaving the box disconnected, which is not so funny when you are in home office... We have a couple of such involved configs due to environmental/hardware constraints which always happens if you have a larger machine park with over 100 instances. So you simply need all those manual knobs and switches that can be turned to adapt to all these hassles. NWAM probably does its job for the simple Desktop, but that isn't the right measure to decide what a OS should provide as configuration tools. Then we could simply drop in.routed and other seldom used stuff, since almost no one needs that => please go away and use another OS if so... That's clearly not the goal. In fact, when you've worked a couple of decades in that job, you would find out that you may at least once needed those tools and were happy to have them. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On Wed, 13 Apr 2022 at 12:43, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: > > On 13. Apr 2022, at 22:32, s...@pandora.be wrote: > > - Op 13 apr 2022 om 21:13 schreef Judah Richardson > > judahrichard...@gmail.com: > >> Speaking as an experimental user (read: OI is not my daily driver) who > >> acknowledges OI inherits a lot of internal functionality from a > >> server/workstation distro (openSolaris): all of this strikes me as > >> anachronistically(?) complicated for something that should by default > >> expect to get an IP address lease from any DHCP server on a network to > >> which it's connected. > > It's not really anachronistic. It's just that there is an enormous amount > > of history behind the networking stack and OpenIndiana is the kind of > > operating system distribution where users appreciate "old conventions" for > > configuring the network. > This is just bad excuse to have mess about how you configure your network. I agree. I think we have a bug with the routeadm thing, but otherwise I think people are trying too hard to consider the history when thinking about it. Broadly, I would say: - If you don't care beyond "plug in a cable", use NWAM. That's what it's for. We can and should fix any defects that prevent it working as effectively automatic in simple environments, which would include desktops and laptops and even single- homed servers with simple DHCP addresses. - If you want to be in more control, or to have things be more static, disable NWAM. Use ipadm. You will know when this is you, because your needs will not be met by NWAM. I wouldn't make it more complex than that. Cheers. -- Joshua M. Clulow http://blog.sysmgr.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OI Hipster becomes unreachable over network after a certain length of uptime
On 4/13/22 22:47, Joshua M. Clulow via openindiana-discuss wrote: I agree. I think we have a bug with the routeadm thing, but otherwise I think people are trying too hard to consider the history when thinking about it. Broadly, I would say: - If you don't care beyond "plug in a cable", use NWAM. That's what it's for. We can and should fix any defects that prevent it working as effectively automatic in simple environments, which would include desktops and laptops and even single- homed servers with simple DHCP addresses. - If you want to be in more control, or to have things be more static, disable NWAM. Use ipadm. You will know when this is you, because your needs will not be met by NWAM. I wouldn't make it more complex than that. Cheers. -- Joshua M. Clulow http://blog.sysmgr.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hi! +1 ! The 'daily driver' for me is a laptop. Mostly i am connected in my home office with a cable, sometimes i am sitting in some other room/outside connected via wifi, or i take it with me to my parents (oh they're getting old!). NWAM supports me in this use case. There are dedicated machines in my home network that have dedicated network parameters, and some of them are manually configured. But these are special use cases in my opinion which have (plenty of) additional manual configuration so that the use case can be fulfilled (file/print/sane/mail/NAT/whatever ) - the network config is only a small part and you will know "if" and "how".. Greetings, Stephan ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
