Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
On 01/25/15 05:28 PM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote: The current "forum" spreads out its presence to my email inbox, instead of staying at openindiana.org site. This is undesirable (at least for me), and forces me to subscribe every time when I want to contribute to the forum, and unsubscribe immediately after that. Just want to keep my email and this forum separate. Dmitry. That is because you confuse terms "forum", "mailing list" and using of your mail client. "Forums" are parts of web sites, connected to local per-site database that simulates writing messages , viewing them and all other functions. With forums, no one actually send or post anything, it is totally under discression of site/domain owner to manage them. Forums usually have not very functioning views of message threads, they are under total control of site owner , does not allow privacy in messages between users and are actually poor replacemnt for mailing list (but usually with Web GUI). "Mailing lists" also rely on centralized mail server (that one "subscribes" to) but users use their own mail client applications and treat traffic on the list like ordinary mail messages. It is customary for mailing list users to set FILTERS in their own mail applications or webmail they use, so that every message on mailing list ends up on directory under Inbox. (Usually filtering by "List-ID" mail header). So it's up to every user to know how to use it's own mail client software or service, set up filters and be done with it. Just to mention, Gmail that I use (and I use is both with WebGUI/webmail and as IMAP with Thunderbird with filters), have not so nice "feature" of not displaying my own (bounced) messages that I send to mailing list. So I don't see my own messages on the list, until I copy them manually inside my Inbox. It is only Gmail's problem so for extended mailing list use, other mail then Gmail is better. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Hipster and puppet
Last Friday I made an installation of hipster in our corporate network.
We use puppet for configuration management.
Puppet set facts to classify the system and one of them is "operatingsystem".
The value for operatingsystem is determined by evaluation of 'uname -v'.
# Hipster: uname -v
illumos-f8554bb
# OpenIndiana oi151a9 : uname -v
oi_151a9
and the ruby code of puppet
def get_operatingsystem
output = Facter::Core::Execution.exec('uname -v')
if output =~ /^joyent_/
"SmartOS"
elsif output =~ /^oi_/
"OpenIndiana"
elsif output =~ /^omnios-/
"OmniOS"
elsif FileTest.exists?("/etc/debian_version")
"Nexenta"
else
"Solaris"
end
end
IMHO this is a wrong classification as hipster will be handled like Oracle
Solaris.
And we manage OpenIndiana a151a9 and Oracle Solaris systems with puppet.
And the test system was handled as an Oracle Solaris system.
I will make a pull request to change the value but I am unsure which value to
choose.
What do you prefer?
"OpenIndiana" as before and as recognition of a special distribution.
"IllumOS" as a more general specification.
Andreas
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
On 01/25/15 10:55 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote: Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: The archive provides a good interface for older discussions. I'm also of the opinion that part of the price of getting help from others is providing it when the opportunity presents itself. Or set up to auto-folder or auto-delete the emails during periods you aren't following the list. The archives are not a good interface for older discussions - I use my email client on a dedicated folder to search the archives. Although I personally hate forums, I am also aware that use of email by those currently of university age has plummeted, with many not using it at all. If someone with an interest in forums came forward with a proposal that would bi-directionally mirror the mailing list discussion in a forum, that would open the discussions up to some younger people who won't follow a project via a mailing list. There is an IRC channel, #openindiana on chat.freenode.net I also very much hate forums, because they do not solve any problem, but make problems worse. One of the problems is actually administering forums and frame of mind of forums users, that is different with forum users and mailing list users, where forum users perceive and imply less freedom and less self-control when using them. On mailing lists, there are no "deleting" messages like on the forums and no oversight over direct communication between list members. Forums have more fluctuation of new users and also administering against Spam that could come to the list, not through mail servers, but through direct Http(s) postings. Having mailing list spread to web interface too (that also includes subscribing) could be Ok solution. I understand that younger people not accustomed to using nomal Mail client application, would prefer to have Web interface to mailing list. Only I suggest that it is _imperative_ to have same users, same accounts, same passwords and same mail addresses subscribed to the mailing list, aether if it is in ordinary mailing list form in mail client, or if it is displayed in the form of Web interface, it needs to stay same content. Separating "forum" and "mailing lists" woud be grave mistake. (Like it was on Opensolaris days) What is the existing software on server side, for displaying mailing list to Web interface and allow subscribers to reply to the list via web interface, that could be used? ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Hipster and puppet
Grüninger wrote:
Last Friday I made an installation of hipster in our corporate network.
We use puppet for configuration management.
Puppet set facts to classify the system and one of them is "operatingsystem".
The value for operatingsystem is determined by evaluation of 'uname -v'.
# Hipster: uname -v
illumos-f8554bb
# OpenIndiana oi151a9 : uname -v
oi_151a9
and the ruby code of puppet
def get_operatingsystem
output = Facter::Core::Execution.exec('uname -v')
if output =~ /^joyent_/
"SmartOS"
elsif output =~ /^oi_/
"OpenIndiana"
elsif output =~ /^omnios-/
"OmniOS"
elsif FileTest.exists?("/etc/debian_version")
"Nexenta"
else
"Solaris"
end
end
IMHO this is a wrong classification as hipster will be handled like Oracle
Solaris.
And we manage OpenIndiana a151a9 and Oracle Solaris systems with puppet.
And the test system was handled as an Oracle Solaris system.
I will make a pull request to change the value but I am unsure which value to
choose.
What do you prefer?
"OpenIndiana" as before and as recognition of a special distribution.
"IllumOS" as a more general specification.
I would say it should be "OpenIndiana".
"Illumos" would cover several different distros with potentially
different sysadmin interfaces, which is not helpful.
FYI, here's a similar selection from Chef, to narrow down the type of
Solaris platform, which is all driven from contents of /etc/release. I
added some of this for local use, but I didn't test all the existing
options.
File.open("/etc/release") do |file|
while line = file.gets
case line
when /^.*(SmartOS).*$/
platform "smartos"
when /^\s*(OmniOS).*r(\d+).*$/
platform "omnios"
platform_version $2
when /^\s*(OpenIndiana).*oi_(\d+).*$/
platform "openindiana"
platform_version $2
when /^\s*Open Storage Appliance\s+(.*)$/
platform "nexentastor"
platform_version $1
when /^\s*(OpenSolaris).*snv_(\d+).*$/
platform "opensolaris"
platform_version $2
when /^\s*(Oracle Solaris) (\d+)\s.*$/
platform "solaris2"
when /^\s*(Solaris)\s.*$/
platform "solaris2"
when /^\s*(NexentaCore)\s.*$/
platform "nexentacore"
end
end
end
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Hipster and puppet
So Chef will have the same problem.
When no other advice will be given I will use "OpenIndiana" as value for
operatingsystem.
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Andrew Gabriel [mailto:illu...@cucumber.demon.co.uk]
Gesendet: Montag, 26. Januar 2015 11:18
An: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
Betreff: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Hipster and puppet
Grüninger wrote:
> Last Friday I made an installation of hipster in our corporate network.
> We use puppet for configuration management.
> Puppet set facts to classify the system and one of them is "operatingsystem".
> The value for operatingsystem is determined by evaluation of 'uname -v'.
>
> # Hipster: uname -v
> illumos-f8554bb
>
> # OpenIndiana oi151a9 : uname -v
> oi_151a9
>
> and the ruby code of puppet
>
> def get_operatingsystem
> output = Facter::Core::Execution.exec('uname -v')
> if output =~ /^joyent_/
> "SmartOS"
> elsif output =~ /^oi_/
> "OpenIndiana"
> elsif output =~ /^omnios-/
> "OmniOS"
> elsif FileTest.exists?("/etc/debian_version")
> "Nexenta"
> else
> "Solaris"
> end
> end
>
> IMHO this is a wrong classification as hipster will be handled like Oracle
> Solaris.
> And we manage OpenIndiana a151a9 and Oracle Solaris systems with puppet.
> And the test system was handled as an Oracle Solaris system.
>
> I will make a pull request to change the value but I am unsure which value to
> choose.
> What do you prefer?
> "OpenIndiana" as before and as recognition of a special distribution.
> "IllumOS" as a more general specification.
I would say it should be "OpenIndiana".
"Illumos" would cover several different distros with potentially different
sysadmin interfaces, which is not helpful.
FYI, here's a similar selection from Chef, to narrow down the type of Solaris
platform, which is all driven from contents of /etc/release. I added some of
this for local use, but I didn't test all the existing options.
File.open("/etc/release") do |file|
while line = file.gets
case line
when /^.*(SmartOS).*$/
platform "smartos"
when /^\s*(OmniOS).*r(\d+).*$/
platform "omnios"
platform_version $2
when /^\s*(OpenIndiana).*oi_(\d+).*$/
platform "openindiana"
platform_version $2
when /^\s*Open Storage Appliance\s+(.*)$/
platform "nexentastor"
platform_version $1
when /^\s*(OpenSolaris).*snv_(\d+).*$/
platform "opensolaris"
platform_version $2
when /^\s*(Oracle Solaris) (\d+)\s.*$/
platform "solaris2"
when /^\s*(Solaris)\s.*$/
platform "solaris2"
when /^\s*(NexentaCore)\s.*$/
platform "nexentacore"
end
end
end
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
I am not confusing these terms. This thread has began from a proposal to implement a forum instead of, or in addition to current mailing list. There were opinions then that the current system is not broken (that is, already working as a forum). I was advocating the idea of creating real forum, and this is why i wrote the word current "forum" in quotes. Despite some inconveniences of mailing list as opposed to a forum, I agree with Reginald Beardsley in the opinion that the current system is working well and does not need to be changed. The script written 20 years ago should work now and in the future. This is why I like real UNIX. Dmitry. >/ The current "forum" spreads out its presence to my email inbox, />/ instead of staying at openindiana.org site. This is undesirable (at />/ least for me), and forces me to subscribe every time when I want to />/ contribute to the forum, and unsubscribe immediately after that. Just />/ want to keep my email and this forum separate. />/ />/ Dmitry./ / /That is because you confuse terms "forum", "mailing list" and using of your mail client. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
My point was to *not* use email client in order to participate in discussions. Thank you for the explanation on how to use a email client. Actually I am the author of one, made in year 2000 (15 years ago) - see desktopfay.com . Regards, Dmitry. That is because you confuse ... and using of your mail client. So it's up to every user to know how to use it's own mail client ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
On 26 January 2015 10:06:54 CET, Nikola M wrote: > >On 01/25/15 10:55 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote: >> Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: >>> The archive provides a good interface for older discussions. I'm >>> also of the opinion that part of the price of getting help from >>> others is providing it when the opportunity presents itself. >> Or set up to auto-folder or auto-delete the emails during periods you > >> aren't following the list. >> >> The archives are not a good interface for older discussions - I use >my >> email client on a dedicated folder to search the archives. >> >> Although I personally hate forums, I am also aware that use of email >> by those currently of university age has plummeted, with many not >> using it at all. If someone with an interest in forums came forward >> with a proposal that would bi-directionally mirror the mailing list >> discussion in a forum, that would open the discussions up to some >> younger people who won't follow a project via a mailing list. >> >> There is an IRC channel, #openindiana on chat.freenode.net >I also very much hate forums, because they do not solve any problem, >but >make problems worse. > >One of the problems is actually administering forums and frame of mind >of forums users, that is different with forum users and mailing list >users, where forum users perceive and imply less freedom and less >self-control when using them. >On mailing lists, there are no "deleting" messages like on the forums >and no oversight over direct communication between list members. Forums > >have more fluctuation of new users and also administering against Spam >that could come to the list, not through mail servers, but through >direct Http(s) postings. > >Having mailing list spread to web interface too (that also includes >subscribing) could be Ok solution. >I understand that younger people not accustomed to using nomal Mail >client application, would prefer to have Web interface to mailing list. >Only I suggest that it is _imperative_ to have same users, same >accounts, same passwords and same mail addresses subscribed to the >mailing list, aether if it is in ordinary mailing list form in mail >client, or if it is displayed in the form of Web interface, it needs to > >stay same content. Separating "forum" and "mailing lists" woud be grave > >mistake. (Like it was on Opensolaris days) > >What is the existing software on server side, for displaying mailing >list to Web interface and allow subscribers to reply to the list via >web >interface, that could be used? > > >___ >openindiana-discuss mailing list >openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org >http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > Separating "forum" and "mailing lists" woud be grave mistake. (Like it was on > Opensolaris days) Well, ideologically these were not separated - tyere was a bridge to post emails onto forums and forum posts into mailing lists, so threads could be discussed in both. The implementation sucked however and more often failed than worked. But the intent was to provide both venues, and I should confess I came into many software-discussion communities via their web-forums, blog comments, etc. Posting error traces (esp. from Live envs) is often more convenient via a browser than fetching and setting up a mail-client, too. Notifications of replies into email (at least) were a great bonus, since I don't want to keep hundreds of tabs open with all forums and threads of interest to me ;) On a bonus side, when there is some interesting discussion of a problem I do too have, and somebody touched it a month or a year ago, subscribing to a list anew won't help me respond to that old thread with its context and my new questions on the matter. However replying to a forum post is open to anybody including newbies anytime, and it is a benefit IMHO. So from me - +1 to a solution that would well integrate forums and email, both-ways and reliably. Jim -- Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Samsung Android ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Hipster and puppet
In regard to: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Hipster and puppet, Grüninger, Andreas...:
Last Friday I made an installation of hipster in our corporate network.
We use puppet for configuration management.
Puppet set facts to classify the system and one of them is "operatingsystem".
The value for operatingsystem is determined by evaluation of 'uname -v'.
# Hipster: uname -v
illumos-f8554bb
# OpenIndiana oi151a9 : uname -v
oi_151a9
I would argue that the real problem is that hipster is reporting "illumos"
instead of oi.
and the ruby code of puppet
def get_operatingsystem
output = Facter::Core::Execution.exec('uname -v')
if output =~ /^joyent_/
"SmartOS"
elsif output =~ /^oi_/
"OpenIndiana"
elsif output =~ /^omnios-/
"OmniOS"
elsif FileTest.exists?("/etc/debian_version")
"Nexenta"
else
"Solaris"
end
end
Illumos should probably be one of the possible values for the
$operatingsystem fact, but hipster shouldn't be saying that it's
more like illumos than OI.
At some point, there will probably need to be a discussion about the
$osfamily fact too.
Tim
--
Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu
Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure 701-231-1076 (Voice)
Room 242-J6, Quentin Burdick Building 701-231-8541 (Fax)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
On 01/26/15 03:51 PM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote: My point was to *not* use email client in order to participate in discussions. Thank you for the explanation on how to use a email client. Actually I am the author of one, made in year 2000 (15 years ago) - see desktopfay.com . Regards, Dmitry. That is because you confuse ... and using of your mail client. So it's up to every user to know how to use it's own mail client Ok, that was because the list is for wider audience and I (maybe wrongly) supposed it needs explanation to differentiate if someone wonders. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
On 01/26/15 03:06 PM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote: I am not confusing these terms. This thread has began from a proposal to implement a forum instead of, or in addition to current mailing list. There were opinions then that the current system is not broken (that is, already working as a forum). I was advocating the idea of creating real forum, and this is why i wrote the word current "forum" in quotes. It would be disastrous to separate forum and mailing list as said. it would be confusing, time consuming hard to follow, etc. But if implemented 1-1 message between mailing list and web interface it could be useful. Despite some inconveniences of mailing list as opposed to a forum, I agree with Reginald Beardsley in the opinion that the current system is working well and does not need to be changed. The script written 20 years ago should work now and in the future. This is why I like real UNIX. Yeah, me too. Until some solution surface that extends using existing mailing lists , with Web interface, mailing list is a way that is proven and that works. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] forum creation
On 01/26/15 04:25 PM, Jim Klimov wrote: Well, ideologically these were not separated - tyere was a bridge to post emails onto forums and forum posts into mailing lists, so threads could be discussed in both. Sonds like that was on the right track. Thanks for clarifying. The implementation sucked however and more often failed than worked. But the intent was to provide both venues, and I should confess I came into many software-discussion communities via their web-forums, blog comments, etc. Posting error traces (esp. from Live envs) is often more convenient via a browser than fetching and setting up a mail-client, too. Notifications of replies into email (at least) were a great bonus, since I don't want to keep hundreds of tabs open with all forums and threads of interest to me ;) That is also great observation and benefit, if implemented right. I usually see mail client as superior way of using mailing lists instead of forums for threaded view, notification and ability to have archived discussions I can search locally. But clearly there are benefits of using Web view. On a bonus side, when there is some interesting discussion of a problem I do too have, and somebody touched it a month or a year ago, subscribing to a list anew won't help me respond to that old thread with its context and my new questions on the matter. However replying to a forum post is open to anybody including newbies anytime, and it is a benefit IMHO. Upon subscribing to mailing list, that is new to me, I usually download mailing list archives from the beginning of the list life (usually unpack from .gz files), concatenate them in one archive and after subscribing and mail filters set, I close Thunderbird and copy file in place of folder file that Thunderbird uses. And voila - after starting Thunderbird, I have full list archive :) There surely could be better way of making available up-to-date full list archive for easier use, and Web interface is sometimes more convenient, but just to say that, one can respond to old threads too, using mail client, if have list archive locally. So from me - +1 to a solution that would well integrate forums and email, both-ways and reliably. That would be great, with of course mentioning that posting from web interface to the list, would need at least one to many maintainers, of course if solution works well (same user accounts etc.) . ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
