Malformed site (partly OT).
I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this morning! Same NetSurf build. I imagine this is the fault of the site rather than of NetSurf, but I would value comments. (OT) If it is the fault of the site, I have a feeling that they may be contravening guidance about website accessibility for disabled people, and I would be interested in comments about this also. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Re) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
RE: Malformed site (partly OT).
On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:01:50 GMT Peter Young wrote: > I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis > Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible > for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets > seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes > back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at > http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on > Windows and > http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was yesterday in > NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this morning! Same > NetSurf build. Isn't this what happens when a site doesn't respond quickly enough and Netsurf times out getting later parts of the site? (Not to blame the site for the delay - it could equally be any part of the network between the site and NS.) Dave FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family! Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
Re: Malformed site (partly OT).
In message <44f5489854.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> Peter Young wrote: >I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible >for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets >seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes >back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at >http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on >Windows and >http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was yesterday in NetSurf >#2600, but it's back to how it should be this morning! Same NetSurf build. > >I imagine this is the fault of the site rather than of NetSurf, but I >would value comments. (OT) If it is the fault of the site, I have a >feeling that they may be contravening guidance about website >accessibility for disabled people, and I would be interested in >comments about this also. > >Best wishes, > >Peter. > I saved the HTML (using Netsurf #2600 and it apeared to present OK with some very minor problems at the bottom of the page) and ran it through http://validator.w3.org/ It came up with 9 errors. I have not examined these in detail and cannot say whether these are the cause of the problem and I don't have sufficient expertise to comment about the website accessibility for disabled people. However a first step might be to rectify the errors so that the HTML conforms to XHML 1.0 and see whether that helps! Regards, -- Graham Pickles www.whitbymuseum.org.uk Whitby Museum Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. (M. Kathleen Casey)
RE: Malformed site (partly OT).
On 19 Feb 2015, Dave Higton wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:01:50 GMT Peter Young wrote: > > I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis > > Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only > > responsible for the content, not the formatting). From time to time > > the site gets seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few > > days later goes back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are > > at http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in > > Chrome on Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as > > it was yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be > > this morning! Same NetSurf build. > > Isn't this what happens when a site doesn't respond quickly enough and > Netsurf times out getting later parts of the site? Netsurf has displayed the page without waiting for the css files to download. Adjust-clicking Netsurf's Reload button may fix it. Tony
RE: Malformed site (partly OT).
In message <6fc6549854.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk> Tony Moore wrote: >On 19 Feb 2015, Dave Higton wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:01:50 GMT Peter Young wrote: > >> > I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >> > Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only >> > responsible for the content, not the formatting). From time to time >> > the site gets seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few >> > days later goes back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are >> > at http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in >> > Chrome on Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as >> > it was yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be >> > this morning! Same NetSurf build. >> >> Isn't this what happens when a site doesn't respond quickly enough and >> Netsurf times out getting later parts of the site? > >Netsurf has displayed the page without waiting for the css files to >download. Adjust-clicking Netsurf's Reload button may fix it. I have seen the same effect viewing other sites with NetSurf. -- Gavin Wraith (ga...@wra1th.plus.com) Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/
RE: Malformed site (partly OT).
On 19 Feb 2015 Tony Moore wrote: > On 19 Feb 2015, Dave Higton wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:01:50 GMT Peter Young wrote: >>> I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >>> Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only >>> responsible for the content, not the formatting). From time to time >>> the site gets seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few >>> days later goes back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are >>> at http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in >>> Chrome on Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as >>> it was yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be >>> this morning! Same NetSurf build. >> >> Isn't this what happens when a site doesn't respond quickly enough and >> Netsurf times out getting later parts of the site? > Netsurf has displayed the page without waiting for the css files to > download. Adjust-clicking Netsurf's Reload button may fix it. Thanks, Tony. A useful trick. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Re) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
Re: Malformed site (partly OT).
On 19 Feb 2015 Graham Pickles wrote: > In message <44f5489854.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> > Peter Young wrote: >>I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >>Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible >>for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets >>seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes >>back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at >>http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome >>on Windows and >>http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was yesterday in >>NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this morning! Same >>NetSurf build. >> >>I imagine this is the fault of the site rather than of NetSurf, but I >>would value comments. (OT) If it is the fault of the site, I have a >>feeling that they may be contravening guidance about website >>accessibility for disabled people, and I would be interested in >>comments about this also. >> >>Best wishes, >> >>Peter. >> > I saved the HTML (using Netsurf #2600 and it apeared to present OK with > some very minor problems at the bottom of the page) > and ran it through http://validator.w3.org/ > It came up with 9 errors. I have not examined these in detail and > cannot say whether these are the cause of the problem and I don't > have sufficient expertise to comment about the website accessibility > for disabled people. However a first step might be to rectify the > errors so that the HTML conforms to XHML 1.0 and see whether that > helps! Thanks for looking at the HTML, which is beyond my capabilities. Unfortunately, the rectifying of the errors isn't something I can do, as I don't have access to the site directly; I submit updates though a Content Management whatever. In any case, the National Centre staff are undermanned, underpaid and overstressed, so I don't really want to rattle their cages. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Re) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
RE: Malformed site (partly OT).
On 19 Feb 2015 Dave Higton wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:01:50 GMT Peter Young wrote: >> I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >> Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible >> for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets >> seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes >> back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at >> http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on >> Windows and >> http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was yesterday in >> NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this morning! Same >> NetSurf build. > Isn't this what happens when a site doesn't respond quickly enough > and Netsurf times out getting later parts of the site? > (Not to blame the site for the delay - it could equally be any part > of the network between the site and NS.) That's an interesting thought, thanks. The site is very slow in rendering, even in Chrome; it gets very irritating sometimes, when I'm editing it. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Re) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
Re: Malformed site (partly OT).
In article <44f5489854.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young wrote: > I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis > Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible > for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets > seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes > back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at > http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on > Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was > yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this > morning! Same NetSurf build. [Snip] Seems to work just fine for me here using NS 3.2, Strongarm RPC with OS 4.39. Tried it several times and always seems to come up OK. Not sure that all the functionality is there but the bits I tried seemed to work OK. Alan -- Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
Re: Malformed site (partly OT).
In article <44f5489854.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young wrote: > I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis > Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible > for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets > seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes > back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at > http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on > Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was > yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this > morning! Same NetSurf build. That difference is CSS. Perhaps someone knows why NetSurf doesn't always seem to see their style sheet(s). I have seen this once or twice, even in Windows browsers, when the CSS is missing or misnamed. Perhaps just a slow/busy server and NetSurf is impatient? > I imagine this is the fault of the site rather than of NetSurf, but I > would value comments. (OT) If it is the fault of the site, I have a > feeling that they may be contravening guidance about website > accessibility for disabled people, and I would be interested in > comments about this also. Their cookie top bars are twee, one is superfluous and both are invisible to NetSurf but to answer your question: They seem to meet all their claims to accessibility if I use a Windows mainstream browser but some of their claims are reliant on a browser's ability to, say, cycle through all links with the and select them with . This is common: is that claim met when NetSurf doesn't provide that facility? In common with much corporate drivel on accessibility, I wonder whether their accessibility page should have a disclaimer about 'depending on browser' and not appear to take credit for a browser feature! All they have done is get things in the right order. However, as your second image shows, the basic HTML layout seems tidy and structured which is pretty much what most accessibility implementation is really all about. Judging by the inhuman CSS file names used nobody codes any of their pages except via a CMS. Interesting that text-low-graphics still imposes their choice of layout and font on the reader. A designer who won't let go? (S/he won't use standard G+, facebook, Twitter, or YouTube gfx). I thought that partially sighted readers were meant to be able to use their browser default font? To all intents and purposes a vanilla page should be the page with no CSS and only one menu. Having seen a partially sighted user with a huge monitor and text blown up to four lines a screenful, I learnt to appreciate the need for a 'basic' option (appreciate =/= implement always). Scrolling around a cheesy, classic over-menued 'square' page (skyscraper menu left, menu bar at the top, menu bar at the bottom with center and right skyscraper content) when your browser viewport is at 800%+ is not easy as anyone with a small smartphone visiting a desktop-only web site will attest. Oh, look at sites such as www.mssociety.org.uk Not really mobile friendly at all. No mobiles at MSS yet then? ;-) Try and read that website on a small smartphone and I think anyone would have comments about practical 'accessibility'. Where are my specs? A lookalike MSS website is what you could end up with if you use my ISP's website builder http://freeola.com/website-builder/ which has lots of 'square' templates with three menus, on one menu thrice. -- www.timil.com web sites * multimedia * training
RE: Malformed site (partly OT).
In message Peter Young wrote: > On 19 Feb 2015 Dave Higton wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 08:01:50 GMT Peter Young wrote: >>> I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >>> Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible >>> for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets >>> seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes >>> back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at >>> http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on >>> Windows and >>> http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was yesterday in >>> NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this morning! Same >>> NetSurf build. >> Isn't this what happens when a site doesn't respond quickly enough >> and Netsurf times out getting later parts of the site? >> (Not to blame the site for the delay - it could equally be any part >> of the network between the site and NS.) > That's an interesting thought, thanks. The site is very slow in > rendering, even in Chrome; it gets very irritating sometimes, when I'm > editing it. Using VRPC on the iMac and NetSurf 2.9, the latest version that works in that platform, the site renders in 1.3s, and reloads in 0.2s using the old-fashioned cache. Firefox and Safari are all but instant on the same iMac. On the Raspberry Pi with NetSurf 3.3 #2600 the site takes 30s and even then only renders in the cut down form. NetSurf 3.1, however, on the Raspberry Pi 2 renders fully in 3.2s. -- David Pitt OS4.39, VRPC, iMac
Re: Malformed site (partly OT).
On 19 Feb 2015 Alan Calder wrote: > In article <44f5489854.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young > wrote: >> I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >> Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible >> for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets >> seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes >> back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at >> http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on >> Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was >> yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this >> morning! Same NetSurf build. > [Snip] > Seems to work just fine for me here using NS 3.2, Strongarm RPC with OS > 4.39. Tried it several times and always seems to come up OK. Not sure > that all the functionality is there but the bits I tried seemed to work OK. Either works or doesn't work here for me, in a random fashion. Tony's adjust-click on the reload button doesn't work, sadly. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Re) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
Re: Malformed site (partly OT).
On 19 Feb 2015 Tim Hill wrote: > In article <44f5489854.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young > wrote: >> I maintain the website of the local branch of the Multiple Sclerosis >> Society, at www.mssociety.org.uk/cheltenham (NB I am only responsible >> for the content, not the formatting). From time to time the site gets >> seriously malformed in RISC OS NetSurf, and then a few days later goes >> back to what is should be. Screenshots of this are at >> http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/Chrome.jpg as it should be in Chrome on >> Windows and http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk/NetSurf.jpg as it was >> yesterday in NetSurf #2600, but it's back to how it should be this >> morning! Same NetSurf build. > That difference is CSS. Perhaps someone knows why NetSurf doesn't always > seem to see their style sheet(s). I have seen this once or twice, even > in Windows browsers, when the CSS is missing or misnamed. Perhaps just a > slow/busy server and NetSurf is impatient? The CSS do seem to be causing the problem. Does NetSurf always fetch the components of a site in the same order? Knowledge of these things is beyond me. >> I imagine this is the fault of the site rather than of NetSurf, but I >> would value comments. (OT) If it is the fault of the site, I have a >> feeling that they may be contravening guidance about website >> accessibility for disabled people, and I would be interested in >> comments about this also. > Their cookie top bars are twee, one is superfluous and both are invisible > to NetSurf but to answer your question: The cookie bars are a pain, in that they keep returning every time I log in on Windows. Surely there should be a cookie to say that I have agreed. I'll nag the web team about this when I get a round tuit. At least as you say, I don't see them in NetSurf. [snip] Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter Young (zfc Re) and family Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk pnyo...@ormail.co.uk
