Re: target=_new_window

[Daniel Silverstone]

On Thu, 2009-06-11 at 16:12 +0100, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> On 9 Jun 2009 as I do recall,
>  Richard Porter wrote:
> 
> > On 8 Jun 2009 John-Mark Bell wrote:
> > 
> > > On Mon, 2009-06-08 at 10:46 +0100, Richard Porter wrote:
> > 
> > >> I mean that you have decided not to implement target="_new" because
> > >> you believe that it isn't valid html and therefore shouldn't be
> > >> supported.
> > 
> > > Er, no. There was a bug. It is now fixed.
> > 
> > Aha, I see it is fixed in the latest release. Thanks for that. When I 
> > mentioned it in the past I was told it wasn't going to get done, as a 
> > result of which I've changed a lot of pages to "_blank".
> 
> So, should I report the use of "_new_window" as a bug in the website (it
> is quite possibly a typo on a recently updated and rarely-used link) or
> not...?

My understanding is that NetSurf is aiming for HTML5 compliance

http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#valid-browsing-context-name-or-keyword

suggests that _new_window as a target in an  tag would be processed
as follows:

 - The first time it's encountered it'd create a new window whose
"context" is '_new_window'.
 - The second time such a link was clicked, it'd replace the content in
*that* window.

Is that the behaviour you want? If not, then please use _blank

Remember, the whole string matters, not just the prefix. Otherwise if I
were to create a site which relied on a browsing context of '_newbury'
then perhaps that'd be spawning fresh windows where it should be reusing
them.

D.

-- 
Daniel Silverstone http://www.digital-scurf.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 2BC8 4016 2068 7895

Re: target=_new_window

[Richard Porter]

On 12 Jun 2009 Daniel Silverstone wrote:

> My understanding is that NetSurf is aiming for HTML5 compliance

> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#valid-browsing-context-name
> -or-keyword

> suggests that _new_window as a target in an  tag would be processed
> as follows:

>  - The first time it's encountered it'd create a new window whose
> "context" is '_new_window'.
>  - The second time such a link was clicked, it'd replace the content in
> *that* window.

> Is that the behaviour you want? If not, then please use _blank

> Remember, the whole string matters, not just the prefix. Otherwise if I
> were to create a site which relied on a browsing context of '_newbury'
> then perhaps that'd be spawning fresh windows where it should be reusing
> them.

What I'd like is the ability NOT to open a new window when downloading 
a file, regardless of the target attribute. It is very annoying when 
you click on a link to a pdf file and a blank window pops up obscuring 
the directory you were going to put it in. I know you can use Object > 
Link > Download target but that is tedious and you can't tell in 
advance if it's necessary. I can't see why you'd need to open a new 
window unless you are going to put something in it.

-- 
 _
|_|. _   Richard Porter   http://www.minijem.plus.com/
|\_||_mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com
Disclaimer: Please imagine about 50 lines of pointless clutter.

Re: target=_new_window

[Rob Kendrick]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:41:04 +0100
Richard Porter  wrote:

> I can't see why you'd need to open a new 
> window unless you are going to put something in it.

I can't see why web masters seem to think I'm not able to do it myself
if I wish, personally.

It's not really NetSurf's fault if a web site does something thick.

B.

Re: target=_new_window

[Richard Porter]

On 12 Jun 2009 Rob Kendrick wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:41:04 +0100
> Richard Porter  wrote:

>> I can't see why you'd need to open a new
>> window unless you are going to put something in it.

> I can't see why web masters seem to think I'm not able to do it myself
> if I wish, personally.

> It's not really NetSurf's fault if a web site does something thick.

I agree entirely, but I suspect that the designers think that everyone 
has a PDF plugin and will display the document in the browser window.

Richard

-- 
 _
|_|. _   Richard Porter   http://www.minijem.plus.com/
|\_||_mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com
Disclaimer: Please imagine about 50 lines of pointless clutter.

Re: target=_new_window

[Tony Moore]

On 12 Jun 2009, Richard Porter  wrote:

> It is very annoying when you click on a link to a pdf file and a blank
> window pops up obscuring the directory you were going to put it in.

Using NetSurf, you can close the blank window, as soon as the download
dialogue box appears. The download continues unaffected.

Tony

Re: target=_new_window

[Richard Porter]

On 12 Jun 2009 Tony Moore wrote:

> On 12 Jun 2009, Richard Porter  wrote:

>> It is very annoying when you click on a link to a pdf file and a blank
>> window pops up obscuring the directory you were going to put it in.

> Using NetSurf, you can close the blank window, as soon as the download
> dialogue box appears. The download continues unaffected.

Yes, that's what I do, but it's still annoying. It's not only NetSurf, 
but I don't know what spec says in this situation. I guess not a lot.

-- 
 _
|_|. _   Richard Porter   http://www.minijem.plus.com/
|\_||_mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com
Disclaimer: Please imagine about 50 lines of pointless clutter.

Re: target=_new_window

[Michael Drake]

In article <0275346a50.r...@user.minijem.plus.com>,
   Richard Porter  wrote:

> What I'd like is the ability NOT to open a new window when downloading 
> a file, regardless of the target attribute.

Choices... Content, untick "Allow links to open in new windows".

That means that the target attribute is always ignored and it is the
user's choice whether to open a new window. If you want a new window use
Adjust, else use Select.

Michael

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: target=_new_window

[Grahame Parish]

In message <506a3a3549t...@netsurf-browser.org>
  Michael Drake  wrote:

> In article <0275346a50.r...@user.minijem.plus.com>,
>Richard Porter  wrote:

>> What I'd like is the ability NOT to open a new window when downloading
>> a file, regardless of the target attribute.

> Choices... Content, untick "Allow links to open in new windows".

> That means that the target attribute is always ignored and it is the
> user's choice whether to open a new window. If you want a new window use
> Adjust, else use Select.

> Michael

On this subject, is there any reason why a new NetSurf window inherits 
the history of the parent?  If you forget that a new window has opened 
(because it fully overlays the parent) you can click 'Back' far enough 
to get into the parent window's history.  Most other browsers I've 
used limit Back to as far as the initial page that was launched in the 
new window.

Don't know if this is a bug or change request or just a comment at the 
moment.

-- 
Grahame Parish

Re: target=_new_window

[Rob Kendrick]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:16:40 +0100
Grahame Parish  wrote:

> On this subject, is there any reason why a new NetSurf window
> inherits the history of the parent?  If you forget that a new window
> has opened (because it fully overlays the parent) you can click
> 'Back' far enough to get into the parent window's history.  Most
> other browsers I've used limit Back to as far as the initial page
> that was launched in the new window.

This is the feature of NetSurf that I most miss in other browsers.  My
browsing style is to open interesting links I encounter throughout the
day into new windows or tabs, and then read them progressively as I get
moments to myself.  Having the history for the parent windows at that
point is of huge benefit.  It also means that the local history graph
remains useful, so you can find out how you got somewhere should you
forget.

B.

Re: target=_new_window

[Grahame Parish]

In message <20090612132044.3f429...@trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
  Rob Kendrick  wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:16:40 +0100
> Grahame Parish  wrote:

>> On this subject, is there any reason why a new NetSurf window
>> inherits the history of the parent?  If you forget that a new window
>> has opened (because it fully overlays the parent) you can click
>> 'Back' far enough to get into the parent window's history.  Most
>> other browsers I've used limit Back to as far as the initial page
>> that was launched in the new window.

> This is the feature of NetSurf that I most miss in other browsers.  My
> browsing style is to open interesting links I encounter throughout the
> day into new windows or tabs, and then read them progressively as I get
> moments to myself.  Having the history for the parent windows at that
> point is of huge benefit.  It also means that the local history graph
> remains useful, so you can find out how you got somewhere should you
> forget.

> B.

In RISC OS the new window fully overlays the parent in most cases, so 
you can end up with a stack of redundant windows hiding behind the 
current one.  I can see it being useful if you closed the parent to 
open the child, but then there would be no point in opening a new 
window anyway. :)

-- 
Grahame Parish

Re: target=_new_window

[Rob Kendrick]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:24:59 +0100
Grahame Parish  wrote:

> In RISC OS the new window fully overlays the parent in most cases, so 
> you can end up with a stack of redundant windows hiding behind the 
> current one.  I can see it being useful if you closed the parent to 
> open the child, but then there would be no point in opening a new 
> window anyway. :)

This is why tabbed browsing suits me so much.  I'll go through, say, a
Wikipedia article, and middle-click on perhaps 15 other article links
for reading later.

B.

Re: target=_new_window

[Michael Drake]

In article ,
   Grahame Parish  wrote:

> In RISC OS the new window fully overlays the parent in most cases, so 
> you can end up with a stack of redundant windows hiding behind the 
> current one.  I can see it being useful if you closed the parent to 
> open the child, but then there would be no point in opening a new 
> window anyway. :)

In the main browser window menu:

  Display > Window > Stagger window position

and then

  Display > Save as default

to make sure the setting is retained.

I thought that was the default behaviour. Maybe not.

Michael

-- 

Michael Drake (tlsa)  http://www.netsurf-browser.org/

Re: target=_new_window

[Russell Hafter - Lists]

In article <506a3fbf40t...@netsurf-browser.org>, Michael
Drake  wrote:

> In article ,
>Grahame Parish  wrote:

> > In RISC OS the new window fully overlays the parent in
> > most cases, so you can end up with a stack of redundant
> > windows hiding behind the current one.  I can see it
> > being useful if you closed the parent to open the
> > child, but then there would be no point in opening a
> > new window anyway. :)

I was about to say "Not here"

> In the main browser window menu:

>   Display > Window > Stagger window position

> and then

>   Display > Save as default

> to make sure the setting is retained.

> I thought that was the default behaviour.

I had thought that it was standard RISC OS behaviour. I
certainly have no recollection of setting this at any
time...

However, clicking several times on each of the icon bar icon
currently available, Edit produces five staggered windows,
then reverts to the initail position.

NetSurf behaves identically.

Easiwriter produces just three staggered windows before
reverting.

Pipedream does overlay them exactly, as long as you keep
opening windows of the same type. Diffenrent types of window
seem to open in different places on the screen.

Equally, Fresco does overlay them exactly.

Other apps only allow the one window.

-- 
Russell Hafter - Mailing Lists
rh.li...@phone.coop
Need a hotel? 
(NB This link needs Firefox to work)

Re: target=_new_window

[Richard Porter]

On 12 Jun 2009 Michael Drake wrote:

> In article <0275346a50.r...@user.minijem.plus.com>,
>Richard Porter  wrote:

>> What I'd like is the ability NOT to open a new window when downloading
>> a file, regardless of the target attribute.

> Choices... Content, untick "Allow links to open in new windows".

> That means that the target attribute is always ignored and it is the
> user's choice whether to open a new window. If you want a new window use
> Adjust, else use Select.

That's probably the best compromise. I assume that targets in 
framesets are still observed. I'll soon find out if they're not!

Richard

-- 
 _
|_|. _   Richard Porter   http://www.minijem.plus.com/
|\_||_mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com
Disclaimer: Please imagine about 50 lines of pointless clutter.

Re: target=_new_window

[Grahame Parish]

In message <506a3fbf40t...@netsurf-browser.org>
  Michael Drake  wrote:

> In article ,
>Grahame Parish  wrote:

>> In RISC OS the new window fully overlays the parent in most cases, so
>> you can end up with a stack of redundant windows hiding behind the
>> current one.  I can see it being useful if you closed the parent to
>> open the child, but then there would be no point in opening a new
>> window anyway. :)

> In the main browser window menu:

>   Display > Window > Stagger window position

> and then

>   Display > Save as default

> to make sure the setting is retained.

> I thought that was the default behaviour. Maybe not.

> Michael

In fact it does stagger straight down by the titlebar depth, rather 
than down and right.  The stagger option is ticked and greyed, so 
can't be changed anyway.

With the back button taking you back further than the starting 
position, there's no indication that you've 'finished' with the new 
window and can now close it to carry on from where you left off in the 
parent.  As I suggested earlier, this is probably more of a discussion 
point than a fault.  As with most things, everyone's going to have 
their own opinion as to what is 'right'.

To take up rjek's point earlier, will the RISC OS version ever have a 
tabbed interface?  I've got so used to it with FF and now IE that it 
is one thing I really miss.  I understand it is supported on some OSs.

-- 
Grahame Parish

Tabbed browsing in RISC OS, was: target=_new_window

[Rob Kendrick]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:00:30 +0100
Grahame Parish  wrote:

> To take up rjek's point earlier, will the RISC OS version ever have a 
> tabbed interface?  I've got so used to it with FF and now IE that it 
> is one thing I really miss.  I understand it is supported on some OSs.

The big stumbling block for this is that the RISC OS user interface
currently has no maintainer.  If anybody wants to take this over,
please come and chat to us in #netsurf on irc.freenode.net.

B.

Re: target=_new_window

[Tim Hill]

In article <1d1e386a50.r...@user.minijem.plus.com>, Richard Porter
 wrote:
> On 12 Jun 2009 Rob Kendrick wrote:

> > On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:41:04 +0100 Richard Porter
> >  wrote:

> >> I can't see why you'd need to open a new window unless you are going
> >> to put something in it.

> > I can't see why web masters seem to think I'm not able to do it
> > myself if I wish, personally.

> > It's not really NetSurf's fault if a web site does something thick.

> I agree entirely, but I suspect that the designers think that everyone
> has a PDF plugin and will display the document in the browser window.

This happens in the pee sea too. It is equally frustrating with Firefox
when a PDF handler has been installed and the damn' thing still opens
blank windows.

IIRC the answer with NetSurf is to shift/click the link.

-- 
Tim Hill,

www.timil.com