Re: huawei
What about through SDR? ie. http://nuand.com/ I mean, 'subscriber' seems to indicate a layman, but SDR isn't too complex to get running for someone with a modicum of electronics experience - especially in this day and age, where oscilloscopes and frequency analysis is available to anyone with some Google-fu. On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > - Original Message - > > From: "Scott Helms" > > > Is it possible? Yes, but it's not feasible because the data rate would be > > too low. That's what I'm trying to get across. There are lots things that > > can be done but many of those are not useful. > > > > I could encode communications in fireworks displays, but that's not > > effective for any sort of communication system. > > At this point, of course, we hearken back to the Multics system, which > needed -- in order to get the B1(?) common criteria security rating that it > had -- to prevent Covert Channel communication between processes of > different > security levels *by means as low-bandwidth as sending morse code by > modulating the system load*. > > So I don't think "there's too little bandwidth" is a good enough argument, > Scott. > > But there's a much more important issue here: > > In some cases, like the Verizon Wireless 4G puck I mentioned earlier, > manufactured by ZTE, *you can't see the back side of the device*. There's > nearly no practical way for a subscriber to know what's coming out of the > 4G side of that radio, so it could be doing anything it likes. > > Verizon Wireless proper could know, but they have no particular reason to > look > and, some might argue, lots of reasons not to want to know. > > Cheers, > -- jra > -- > Jay R. Ashworth Baylink > j...@baylink.com > Designer The Things I Think RFC > 2100 > Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land > Rover DII > St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 > 1274 > >
Re: huawei
Why is it so difficult? Hiding communications is an intriguing subject - My ears perked up a bit at the Multics remark - Morse is something that probably never would have even crossed my mind. EDIT: Okay, now it's sent to the list. DOHF! On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Jazz Kenny wrote: > Why is it so difficult? Hiding communications is an intriguing subject - > My ears perked up a bit at the Multics remark - Morse is something that > probably never would have even crossed my mind. > > > On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > >> - Original Message - >> > From: "Phil Fagan" >> >> > That's a very interesting point about the 4G puckdo you mean >> > modulating >> > data over side-lobes? To your point, I as a subscriber would have no >> > way >> > every knowing that unless of course I hooked up my specanny and >> > started to >> > try to decode the sidelobesI imagine most folks don't do that ( if >> > thats how one would even go about it ) >> >> Not at all. >> >> The *standard air-data link* coming out the back of the puck, in "4G" >> (protip: >> it's not) LTE, *is not something that the user can see*, without great >> effort. >> >> So, that commercial end-user customer of Verizon has no way to see what >> extra data *the puck itself* might be phoning home with. >> >> Cheers, >> -- jra >> -- >> Jay R. Ashworth Baylink >> j...@baylink.com >> Designer The Things I Think RFC >> 2100 >> Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land >> Rover DII >> St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 >> 647 1274 >> >> >
Re: huawei (oscilloscopes and frequency analysis)
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Tony Patti wrote: > Thanks, I liked your pointer to the SDR. > > But can I ask you for a bit more info about your statement > > "where oscilloscopes and frequency analysis is available to anyone with some > Google-fu" > > We don't need as much test equipment before? > > (as a guy with an oscilloscope in his basement, I don't see how Google can > do what that device can). > > > > Thanks, > > Tony All I meant was that the tools are relatively accessible to anyone with the desire to look - An oscilloscope with the necessary freq. range to study 4G communications can be bought or fabricated (all that's really needed is a microcontroller with an ADC, some gain amps and time), an appropriate SDR to intercept the signals shouldn't be too hard to source, and that community has been blowing up for a few years now. Hell, there are even a couple examples of LGA 4G receivers floating around in the wild (gtm801, for example). Ignoring all of that, there are commercial options like the YellowFin 4G analyzer. No idea how much one of those costs, though. Now, like Jay said, there are the issues of encryption and such, but that's just another barrier to entry. A little Google-fu could probably source a paper dealing with its implementation, at least. I doubt it would be easy, but if the motivation exists, the required test bed is easily assembled, and the information is available. Not like we're talking about intercepted military GPS bands or something. It's a consumer device that can sit on a workbench and be tested at the leisure of the security researcher. - J.
