Re: Multihop eBGP peering or VPN based eBGP peering
> Perhaps I am missing something from your advantage list, but why would > you want to exchange routing information with a network to which you > don't have a connection due to a local failure? I think you are > attempting to abstract routing from the underlying physical > infrastructure a bit too much. If the power is out in the carrier pop > to which you are connected, they don't have a way to give you traffic > so why would a multi-hop session help. > > BGP being down is rarely something that happens on its own, it is > typically due to something far more physical (router failure, pop > outage, circuit outage, etc). any time routing signaling comes from a source to which you can not directly deliver payload you will be in a load of grief when something goes wrong. abjure route servers. route reflectors should be in the data plane, ... in general, when layer N is not congruent with layer N-1 (and N+1), you have a recipe for exciting times. and well run ops is not supposed to be exciting. randy
RE: Multihop eBGP peering or VPN based eBGP peering
-Original Message- From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net] Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 1:37 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Multihop eBGP peering or VPN based eBGP peering On Jun 17, 2013, at 00:36 , "Otis L. Surratt, Jr." wrote: >First, inside your own network is not eBGP. iBGP has no hop limitation (well, 255). If you have you seen someone do eBGP "inside their own network", they were actually doing it between two separate networks they owned. >If you saw someone do eBGP over a GRE tunnel, that is a direct connection, not multi-hop. [Cue discussion from last week about multiple islands in the same ASN.] I know eBGP is not iBGP. And yes, it was two separate ASNs. The point was in my experience, providers will prefer direction connection (you can physically plug into switch port or router port) to establish an eBGP session with you versus a GRE Tunnel. And some do not allow it. >I do not see an advantage here. >You are on the east coast and you want to re-direct traffic to the west coast, so you announce a prefix to a west coast router and ask it to propagate that prefix to its peers. How do you guarantee that router has a route back to the east coast for that >prefix? >Remember, a prefix announcement is a promise to deliver traffic to that prefix. You are suggesting asking a router to make a promise when that router has no guarantee of reachability. In your hurricane example, perhaps the west coast router reaches >that prefix through one of the down east coast routers? Now you have blackholed that prefix when a router in, say, Chicago or Dallas would have announced it properly and had reachability. >If you want to control where a prefix ingresses another network, first you need a transit relationship with that network. Most modern transit networks have community-based signaling, allowing you to do what you suggest and more (e.g. "prepend to peer >$X" or "do not announce to peer $Y"). " You see you can have routers all over but if your data center (CDN) is without power you are done." Patrick, I was saying "done" in terms of being over, no more, not happening. :) But that was if you had all of the necessary network measures accounted for and content served via the east coast data center only. But I did forget to clarify (not CDN, or single served content). I was assuming the OP had the proper relationships network wise (transit/private/public peering) so it would work when you put it all together properly. I also, took into account the OP is a CDN so they probably have content distributed at a minimum in separate regions anyway so it wouldn't matter if the east coast DC is offline as the content is still reachable via the west coast data center which would null and void the OPs example. Like I explained, I was thinking the OP had the proper relationships to re-direct traffic to the west coast at that point that's why I said "I do see this advantage being an obvious workable logical one." I didn't say it was perfect but workable (work was still needed to complete it).
recommended outdoor enclosures
I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security options, etc. for this use? I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. Thanks.
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
I came across this once. Seems interesting but we have never used it ourselves. 400 Watts is not much so I believe this unit may even be overkill. http://www.ellipticalmedia.com/raserhd.html On 6/17/2013 3:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security options, etc. for this use? I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. Thanks.
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, > 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, > for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far > as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security > options, etc. for this use? > > I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees > Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 > F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even > better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. > > Thanks. Stab in the dark but are you looking for something like this[1] or larger? 1. http://www.hoffmanonline.com/product_catalog/product_detail.aspx?cat_1=34&cat_2=2346&cat_3=302499&catid=302499&itemid=302509&view=overview -- ~ Andrew "lathama" Latham lath...@gmail.com http://lathama.net ~
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
http://www.ddbunlimited.com/ Be prepared to drop some coin. Josh On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, > 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, > for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far > as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security > options, etc. for this use? > > I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees > Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 > F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even > better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. > > Thanks. > >
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
Alpha's Radium Minibays should be a good start of what to look at and seems to fit your requirements: http://www.alpha.ca/web2/products/enclosures/outdoor-enclosures-medium/item/radium-minibay-series On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, > 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, > for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far > as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security > options, etc. for this use? > > I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees > Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 > F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even > better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. > > Thanks. >
10gig coast to coast
Greetings I may be needing 10 gig from the West Coast to the East Coast some time in the next year. I've got my ideas on what that would cost, but I don't have anything that big. This could be a leased line, part of a cloud with Verizon, NTT, Sprint, or whoever as the provider, etc. I'm just looking to see what a budget cost for something like this is, and who can provide such service. Your help is greatly appreciated, feel free to respond directly or to the thread. E
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
http://www.ddbunlimited.com/ -mike Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2013, at 12:49, Alex Lesser wrote: I came across this once. Seems interesting but we have never used it ourselves. 400 Watts is not much so I believe this unit may even be overkill. http://www.ellipticalmedia.com/raserhd.html On 6/17/2013 3:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security options, etc. for this use? I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. Thanks.
Re: 10gig coast to coast
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:51:28 -0700, eric clark said: > I may be needing 10 gig from the West Coast to the East Coast Might want to be more specific. Catalina Island, CA to Buxton, NC (home of Cape Hatteras High School) will probably be way different than downtown LA to downtown Boston. pgpDed_RjN2kU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
This is by far a "cheaper" option, but should work just fine. I'm about to do the same myself. Grab a used cab here - http://www.usedtowers.com/CABINETS/CABINETS.htm Some of those come with the factory huge AC systems built for thousands of watts of equipment inside, but if you're like me and will have 300-400 watts max, grab a non-cooled cabinet for cheap. Then pick up one of these guys and slap it on, buy the capacity you need. You can get them with a heating option as well, they're thermoelectric and very affordable- http://www.eicsolutions.com/thermoelectric-air-conditioners.php -- Jon Sands Fohdeesha Media http://fohdeesha.com/
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
Clearwire uses these and they are very nice. www.*ddb*unlimited.com -- Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474 On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, > 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, > for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far > as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security > options, etc. for this use? > > I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees > Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 > F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even > better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. > > Thanks. > >
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
I have had success with the opposite approach using equipment rated from -40 C to +85 C (+185 F), no fans, sealed NEMA4 or NEMA12 Hoffman enclosures, cooling by equipment heat sinks. Ethernet switches and optics rated -40 C to +85 C This configuration has worked with the same equipment for at least 6 years in an environment where summer ambient temperatures reach 120-130 F, and winter ambient 0 F. Hoffman makes a 72" high NEMA12 enclosure with a swing-out 19" telco rack. On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, > 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, > for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far > as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security > options, etc. for this use? > > I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees > Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 > F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even > better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. > > Thanks. > >
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 04:19:07PM -0400, Jon Sands wrote: > This is by far a "cheaper" option, but should work just fine. I'm > about to do the same myself. > > Grab a used cab here - http://www.usedtowers.com/CABINETS/CABINETS.htm > > Some of those come with the factory huge AC systems built for > thousands of watts of equipment inside, but if you're like me and > will have 300-400 watts max, grab a non-cooled cabinet for cheap. > > Then pick up one of these guys and slap it on, buy the capacity you > need. You can get them with a heating option as well, they're > thermoelectric and very affordable- > http://www.eicsolutions.com/thermoelectric-air-conditioners.php "very affordable"? I looked at those and they cost more than twice the cost of the cabinet itself. But I might end up going with them anyway, 1500 BTU would cover the 400 watts I generate inside the cabinet, but I'm more concerned about the outdoor environment/solar heating effects. How many BTU should I add to account for that?
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
Woah, the last quote I got from them was less than half the price of a cab. I guess I'm cooling less equipment? What model are you looking at? On 6/17/2013 4:28 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 04:19:07PM -0400, Jon Sands wrote: This is by far a "cheaper" option, but should work just fine. I'm about to do the same myself. Grab a used cab here - http://www.usedtowers.com/CABINETS/CABINETS.htm Some of those come with the factory huge AC systems built for thousands of watts of equipment inside, but if you're like me and will have 300-400 watts max, grab a non-cooled cabinet for cheap. Then pick up one of these guys and slap it on, buy the capacity you need. You can get them with a heating option as well, they're thermoelectric and very affordable- http://www.eicsolutions.com/thermoelectric-air-conditioners.php "very affordable"? I looked at those and they cost more than twice the cost of the cabinet itself. But I might end up going with them anyway, 1500 BTU would cover the 400 watts I generate inside the cabinet, but I'm more concerned about the outdoor environment/solar heating effects. How many BTU should I add to account for that? -- Jon Sands Fohdeesha Media http://fohdeesha.com/
Re: recommended outdoor enclosures
Unfortunately, I have some specific non-commodity circuit boards I'm dealing with, so I have to accommodate their environmental requirements. On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 01:22:26PM -0700, david peahi wrote: > I have had success with the opposite approach using equipment rated from > -40 C to +85 C (+185 F), no fans, sealed NEMA4 or NEMA12 Hoffman > enclosures, cooling by equipment heat sinks. Ethernet switches and optics > rated -40 C to +85 C > This configuration has worked with the same equipment for at least 6 years > in an environment where summer ambient temperatures reach 120-130 F, and > winter ambient 0 F. Hoffman makes a 72" high NEMA12 enclosure with a > swing-out 19" telco rack. > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote: > > > I'm in need of my first free-standing, pad-mounted outdoor enclosure, > > 19" rack rails, 12-18 rack units, with about 400W of heat load inside, > > for use in the Massachusetts climate. What do people recommend as far > > as contruction, cooling/heating options, NEMA ratings, security > > options, etc. for this use? > > > > I was hoping to keep the inside temperature between 50 and 85 degrees > > Fahrenheit, although my worst-case components are rated for 41 to 104 > > F (4 - 40 C). If a full mechanical A/C system can be avoided, even > > better. A thermo-electric cooler would be nice. > > > > Thanks.
Re: 10gig coast to coast
Fair enough Seattle to Boston is the general route, real close. On Monday, June 17, 2013, wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:51:28 -0700, eric clark said: > > > I may be needing 10 gig from the West Coast to the East Coast > > Might want to be more specific. Catalina Island, CA to Buxton, NC > (home of Cape Hatteras High School) will probably be way different > than downtown LA to downtown Boston. >
Re: 10gig coast to coast
It's typically that the last mile portion of the circuit is going to cost you the most, so it's important to know those details. Carlos Alcantar Race Communications / Race Team Member 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com -Original Message- From: eric clark Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 3:22 PM To: "valdis.kletni...@vt.edu" Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" Subject: Re: 10gig coast to coast Fair enough Seattle to Boston is the general route, real close. On Monday, June 17, 2013, wrote: > On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:51:28 -0700, eric clark said: > > > I may be needing 10 gig from the West Coast to the East Coast > > Might want to be more specific. Catalina Island, CA to Buxton, NC > (home of Cape Hatteras High School) will probably be way different > than downtown LA to downtown Boston. >
Re: 10gig coast to coast
Also, what are reliability and redundancy requirements. 10 gigs of bare naked fiber is one thing, but if you need extra paths redundancy, figure that out now and specify. Is this latency, bandwidth, both? Mission critical, business critical, less priority? 24x7x365, or subset of that, or intermittent only? On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Carlos Alcantar wrote: > It's typically that the last mile portion of the circuit is going to cost > you the most, so it's important to know those details. > > Carlos Alcantar > Race Communications / Race Team Member > 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 > Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: eric clark > Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 3:22 PM > To: "valdis.kletni...@vt.edu" > Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" > Subject: Re: 10gig coast to coast > > Fair enough > > Seattle to Boston is the general route, real close. > > On Monday, June 17, 2013, wrote: > > > On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:51:28 -0700, eric clark said: > > > > > I may be needing 10 gig from the West Coast to the East Coast > > > > Might want to be more specific. Catalina Island, CA to Buxton, NC > > (home of Cape Hatteras High School) will probably be way different > > than downtown LA to downtown Boston. > > > > > > -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Re: 10gig coast to coast
On 6/17/2013 10:32 PM, George Herbert wrote: > Also, what are reliability and redundancy requirements. > > 10 gigs of bare naked fiber is one thing, but if you need extra paths > redundancy, figure that out now and specify. > > Is this latency, bandwidth, both? Mission critical, business critical, > less priority? 24x7x365, or subset of that, or intermittent only? And are you looking for "dark fiber" or can you deal with a lambda? Can you supply tuned optics for the passive mux carriers? Dark coast-to-coast is going to cost you a few appendages. You may land a lambda for a reasonable price depending on the endpoints, you'll need an established carrier with DWDM gear on both ends. Jeff
Re: 10gig coast to coast
all of these questions are valid. The guys who will use it would love to have line rate on the 10G, for a single conversation, but that's not going to happen. So, there's a certain amount of expectation management. For the purpose we're proposing, this would be an additional link to an existing office, a link for test/lab traffic specifically. We would run the lab management on the existing link (s) and provide some sort of restricted failover as well. Sorry I'm not going into more detail, just trying to balance the need for some info versus ... you know. This link wouldn't need to be 5 Nines, but with the office primary and backup, we can provide the connectivity almost 100% of the time. Thanks for all the comments everyone, they have been helpful. Eric On Jun 17, 2013, at 7:32 PM, George Herbert wrote: > Also, what are reliability and redundancy requirements. > > 10 gigs of bare naked fiber is one thing, but if you need extra paths > redundancy, figure that out now and specify. > > Is this latency, bandwidth, both? Mission critical, business critical, > less priority? 24x7x365, or subset of that, or intermittent only? > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Carlos Alcantar wrote: > >> It's typically that the last mile portion of the circuit is going to cost >> you the most, so it's important to know those details. >> >> Carlos Alcantar >> Race Communications / Race Team Member >> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010 >> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: eric clark >> Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 3:22 PM >> To: "valdis.kletni...@vt.edu" >> Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" >> Subject: Re: 10gig coast to coast >> >> Fair enough >> >> Seattle to Boston is the general route, real close. >> >> On Monday, June 17, 2013, wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 12:51:28 -0700, eric clark said: >>> I may be needing 10 gig from the West Coast to the East Coast >>> >>> Might want to be more specific. Catalina Island, CA to Buxton, NC >>> (home of Cape Hatteras High School) will probably be way different >>> than downtown LA to downtown Boston. >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > -george william herbert > george.herb...@gmail.com
Re: 10gig coast to coast
I'm looking for options. With dark fiber, obviously, I have the ultimate in options. However, its the ultimate in cost as you say. The requirement we have is 10gig of actual throughput. Precisely what mechanism is used to transport it isn't all that important, though I'm certain that there will be complaints... :) I'd LOVE to have me some DWDM, always wanted to run some of that gear, but at that point, why stop at 10G On Jun 17, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Jeff Kell wrote: > On 6/17/2013 10:32 PM, George Herbert wrote: >> Also, what are reliability and redundancy requirements. >> >> 10 gigs of bare naked fiber is one thing, but if you need extra paths >> redundancy, figure that out now and specify. >> >> Is this latency, bandwidth, both? Mission critical, business critical, >> less priority? 24x7x365, or subset of that, or intermittent only? > > And are you looking for "dark fiber" or can you deal with a lambda? Can > you supply tuned optics for the passive mux carriers? > > Dark coast-to-coast is going to cost you a few appendages. You may land > a lambda for a reasonable price depending on the endpoints, you'll need > an established carrier with DWDM gear on both ends. > > Jeff > >
Re: 10gig coast to coast
I've had pretty good luck with CenturyLinks 10G wave offerings: http://shop.centurylink.com/largebusiness/enterprisesolutions/products/ethernet/qwave.html Ethernet hand-off at both sites with IPsec or GRE provided a pretty solid environment. You should be able to take advantage of some UDP blasters at what the latency profile will look like for you. Otherwise you could always thread the crap out of whatever it is your transactioning across the link to make up for TCP's jackknifes along with other tuning. On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Eric Clark wrote: > I'm looking for options. > > With dark fiber, obviously, I have the ultimate in options. > > However, its the ultimate in cost as you say. > > The requirement we have is 10gig of actual throughput. Precisely what > mechanism is used to transport it isn't all that important, though I'm > certain that there will be complaints... :) > > I'd LOVE to have me some DWDM, always wanted to run some of that gear, but > at that point, why stop at 10G > > On Jun 17, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Jeff Kell wrote: > > > On 6/17/2013 10:32 PM, George Herbert wrote: > >> Also, what are reliability and redundancy requirements. > >> > >> 10 gigs of bare naked fiber is one thing, but if you need extra paths > >> redundancy, figure that out now and specify. > >> > >> Is this latency, bandwidth, both? Mission critical, business critical, > >> less priority? 24x7x365, or subset of that, or intermittent only? > > > > And are you looking for "dark fiber" or can you deal with a lambda? Can > > you supply tuned optics for the passive mux carriers? > > > > Dark coast-to-coast is going to cost you a few appendages. You may land > > a lambda for a reasonable price depending on the endpoints, you'll need > > an established carrier with DWDM gear on both ends. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > -- Phil Fagan Denver, CO 970-480-7618
