Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Saku Ytti]

On (2012-11-18 23:47 +0100), Daniel Suchy wrote:

> Is anyone else seeing similar problems with Google/Youtube?

My advice is, host the content locally.

Certain Finnish domestic SPs had issues with youtube during peak hours for
years, when content came via Stockholm, if content came from mainland
europe or locally you were set.
Perhaps Google was (maybe still is) regularly congested in Stockholm, and
there might not be much incentive for google to add capacity everywhere
sufficiently, as they can just pressure to people to host them for free.

I'm bit curious about market position youtube has. GOOG claims youtube is
making profit, but I think this is because network is considered other BUs
cost and youtube rides on it for free (remember pre-youtube, how GOOG
micro-optimized google front-page to save on network cost, post-youtube
they rightly stopped caring and added predictive input etc.)

I can't see how anyone could compete against youtube, I don't believe the
service is anywhere near profitable (it's maybe 10% of Internet, and I
can't see revenue being 10% of Internet), if it would have to pay for the
network itself. Consequently you probably can't compete with them, as you
need to cover the costs from the profits. It is just so ubiquitous service,
that if it does not work your eyeballs will switch to network where it
does, so you will give google free capacity, which you wouldn't probably do
for others web streaming shops.





-- 
  ++ytti

RE: Dns sometimes fails using Google DNS / automatic dnssec

[MailPlus| David Hofstee]

fixed... 

---
David Hofstee

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Yunhong Gu [mailto:g...@google.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 15 november 2012 18:29
Aan: Jay Ford
CC: MailPlus| David Hofstee; nanog@nanog.org
Onderwerp: Re: Dns sometimes fails using Google DNS / automatic dnssec

Hi, we have found the bug that caused this problem. It was introduced
in a very recent release. The fix is on its way.

Thanks very much for the report,
Yunhong

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Jay Ford  wrote:
> It looks like if the server has the RRSIG RR, it returns it.  For example, a
> query with +dnssec will cause it to cache the RRSIG, after which it returns
> it even if +dnssec not specified.
>

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Patrick W . Gilmore]

On Nov 19, 2012, at 03:05 , Saku Ytti  wrote:
> On (2012-11-18 23:47 +0100), Daniel Suchy wrote:
> 
>> Is anyone else seeing similar problems with Google/Youtube?
> 
> My advice is, host the content locally.

Sound advice, IMHO.


> I'm bit curious about market position youtube has. GOOG claims youtube is
> making profit, but I think this is because network is considered other BUs
> cost and youtube rides on it for free (remember pre-youtube, how GOOG
> micro-optimized google front-page to save on network cost, post-youtube
> they rightly stopped caring and added predictive input etc.)

I do not work for Google, nor have I asked anyone in Google how they do their 
accounting.  However, I would be rather surprised to find the vast majority of 
their capacity is charged to the BU using a tiny fraction of that capacity, 
while the BU using the lion's share gets a "free ride".


> I can't see how anyone could compete against youtube, I don't believe the
> service is anywhere near profitable (it's maybe 10% of Internet, and I
> can't see revenue being 10% of Internet), if it would have to pay for the
> network itself. Consequently you probably can't compete with them, as you
> need to cover the costs from the profits. It is just so ubiquitous service,
> that if it does not work your eyeballs will switch to network where it
> does, so you will give google free capacity, which you wouldn't probably do
> for others web streaming shops.

First, I believe YouTube is > 10% of the Internet.

Second, I see no reason why that requires anything close - not even within a 
couple orders of magnitude - of 10% of the Internet's revenue to be profitable. 
 Why would you assume such a thing?

-- 
TTFN,
patrick

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Saku Ytti]

On (2012-11-19 08:27 -0500), Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
 
> Second, I see no reason why that requires anything close - not even within a 
> couple orders of magnitude - of 10% of the Internet's revenue to be 
> profitable.  Why would you assume such a thing?

Agreed, 10% of Internet's revenue would be exaggeration.

What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain this
conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is ok, I'd
do the same, had I the leverage)

-- 
  ++ytti

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Leo Bicknell]

In a message written on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 03:59:22PM +0200, Saku Ytti wrote:
> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain this
> conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is ok, I'd
> do the same, had I the leverage)

I suspect you're thinking about revenue in terms of say, the
advertisements they run with the videos.  I beleive you're right, that
would never pay the bills.

Consider a different model.  Google checks out your gmail account, and
discovers you really like Red Bull and from your YouTube profile knows
you watch a lot of Ke$ha videos.  It also discovers there are a lot more
folks with the same profile.  They can now sell that data to a marketing
firm, that there is a strong link between energy drinks and Ke$ha
videos.

GOOG-411 - building a corpus of voice data for Android's voice
recognition.

ReCaptcha - improving visual recognition for their book scanning
process.

Most of the "free" services are simply the cheapest way to get the data
needed for some other service that can make much more money.  It may
seem weird to write off all the costs of YouTube as data aquisition
costs, but there's far more money to be made selling marketing data than
ads against streaming videos...

-- 
   Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440
PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/


pgpfgrl6pelK6.pgp
Description: PGP signature

25Mbps vs 4 Mbps

[Glen Kent]

Hi,

The service provider(s) pipe that takes all web traffic from my laptop to
the central servers (assume youtube) remain same whether i take a 4Mbps or
a 25Mbps connection from my service provider. This means that the internet
connection that i take from my service provider only affects the last mile
-- from my home network to my service providers first access router. Given
this, would one really see a 6 times improvement in a 25Mbps connection
over a 4Mbps connection?

I assume that the service providers rate limit the traffic much
more aggressively in a 4Mbps connection. But this would only matter if the
traffic from my youtube server is greater than 4Mbps, which i suspect would
be the case.

The question then is that how does going for a higher BW connection from
the service provider help?

Glen

Re: 25Mbps vs 4 Mbps

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Glen Kent wrote:

The question then is that how does going for a higher BW connection from 
the service provider help?


That is like asking if a 600 bhp car is 6 times better than a 100 bhp car.

I'd say you definitely can benefit in surfing speed etc up to somewhere 
5-15 megabit/s, after that it's hard to discern any difference in 
interactivity. For youtube alone I doubt you'll notice that much 
difference.unless you're watching 720p/1080p material, where you will 
notice that 4 megabit/s probably isn't enough.


I've seen netflix 1080p stream use over 10 megabit/s in 30 second 
interval, so sometimes it's good to have more :P


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

RE: Google/Youtube problems

[Adam Vitkovsky]

>From the latest csco prime presentation it appears it offers similar
functionality in one of the modules that one can buy to it so that providers
can have a sneak peak on these type of data in order to sell them to third
parties
Though I wouldn't even know whom to sell such information 
Nor have I been hit by a targeted advertisement, yet

adam
-Original Message-
From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bickn...@ufp.org] 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:30 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Google/Youtube problems

In a message written on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 03:59:22PM +0200, Saku Ytti
wrote:
> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly 
> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain 
> this conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd 
> frown
> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is 
> ok, I'd do the same, had I the leverage)

I suspect you're thinking about revenue in terms of say, the advertisements
they run with the videos.  I beleive you're right, that would never pay the
bills.

Consider a different model.  Google checks out your gmail account, and
discovers you really like Red Bull and from your YouTube profile knows you
watch a lot of Ke$ha videos.  It also discovers there are a lot more folks
with the same profile.  They can now sell that data to a marketing firm,
that there is a strong link between energy drinks and Ke$ha videos.

GOOG-411 - building a corpus of voice data for Android's voice recognition.

ReCaptcha - improving visual recognition for their book scanning process.

Most of the "free" services are simply the cheapest way to get the data
needed for some other service that can make much more money.  It may seem
weird to write off all the costs of YouTube as data aquisition costs, but
there's far more money to be made selling marketing data than ads against
streaming videos...

-- 
   Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440
PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/

re: 25Mbps vs 4 Mbps

[Nick Olsen]

It's all about if the bandwidth is there to use.

I'm sure every youtube caching server has a connection which exceeds 
4Mb/s.

How does a faster connection help? It allows the video to fill the buffer 
faster. Allowing for smoother playback on less bandwidth consistent 
circuits. Do you need it really if your video source is under 4Mb/s? In a 
perfect scenario, No.

Now, That's youtube. Using Netflix as an example.

I can start streaming a movie. And it'll pull 50-60Mb/s for about 20 
seconds, And it's playing HD quality almost immediately. Where on a slower 
connection it may not switch to HD until its filled its buffer more.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations (855) FLSPEED  x106


 From: "Glen Kent" 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:04 AM
To: "nanog@nanog.org" 
Subject: 25Mbps vs 4 Mbps

Hi,

The service provider(s) pipe that takes all web traffic from my laptop to
the central servers (assume youtube) remain same whether i take a 4Mbps or
a 25Mbps connection from my service provider. This means that the internet
connection that i take from my service provider only affects the last mile
-- from my home network to my service providers first access router. Given
this, would one really see a 6 times improvement in a 25Mbps connection
over a 4Mbps connection?

I assume that the service providers rate limit the traffic much
more aggressively in a 4Mbps connection. But this would only matter if the
traffic from my youtube server is greater than 4Mbps, which i suspect 
would
be the case.

The question then is that how does going for a higher BW connection from
the service provider help?

Glen

RE: Google/Youtube problems

[Adam Vitkovsky]

For some providers this might be an interesting revenue stream in these days
where we need to build ever faster backbones to carry more and more video
traffic for users that want to pay less and less for high-speed internet
connectivity

adam
-Original Message-
From: Adam Vitkovsky [mailto:adam.vitkov...@swan.sk] 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:17 PM
To: 'Leo Bicknell'; 'nanog@nanog.org'
Subject: RE: Google/Youtube problems

>From the latest csco prime presentation it appears it offers similar
functionality in one of the modules that one can buy to it so that providers
can have a sneak peak on these type of data in order to sell them to third
parties Though I wouldn't even know whom to sell such information Nor have I
been hit by a targeted advertisement, yet

adam
-Original Message-
From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bickn...@ufp.org]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 3:30 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Google/Youtube problems

In a message written on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 03:59:22PM +0200, Saku Ytti
wrote:
> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly 
> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain 
> this conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd 
> frown
> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is 
> ok, I'd do the same, had I the leverage)

I suspect you're thinking about revenue in terms of say, the advertisements
they run with the videos.  I beleive you're right, that would never pay the
bills.

Consider a different model.  Google checks out your gmail account, and
discovers you really like Red Bull and from your YouTube profile knows you
watch a lot of Ke$ha videos.  It also discovers there are a lot more folks
with the same profile.  They can now sell that data to a marketing firm,
that there is a strong link between energy drinks and Ke$ha videos.

GOOG-411 - building a corpus of voice data for Android's voice recognition.

ReCaptcha - improving visual recognition for their book scanning process.

Most of the "free" services are simply the cheapest way to get the data
needed for some other service that can make much more money.  It may seem
weird to write off all the costs of YouTube as data aquisition costs, but
there's far more money to be made selling marketing data than ads against
streaming videos...

-- 
   Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440
PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Saku Ytti]

On (2012-11-19 06:30 -0800), Leo Bicknell wrote:

> Consider a different model.  Google checks out your gmail account, and
> discovers you really like Red Bull and from your YouTube profile knows
> you watch a lot of Ke$ha videos.  It also discovers there are a lot more

Sure. I have no doubt the main reasons to keep youtube are.

a) data mining 
b) contingency

B) is essentially having the most popular platform, in case if video
platform becomes viable marketing platform on itself.

Data mining aspect might make it less dubious to sink network cost to
different BU than to the BU which actually uses the network, as that
network is also benefitting from the data.

-- 
  ++ytti

Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[jipe foo]

Bonjour à tous,

Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur les
plages d'adresses suivantes:

inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
country:FR
admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
tech-c: ER1049-RIPE

inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
descr:  Orange France - WFP
country:FR
admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
tech-c: ER1049-RIPE

S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de connexions WIFI
partagées (au moins pour la seconde) ?

Merci d'avance,

-- 
J

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[joel jaeggli]

On 11/19/12 5:59 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:
What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly 
enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain 
this conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd 
frown upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which 
is ok, I'd do the same, had I the leverage) 
Or there's a simpler explanation. Which is that it makes money either 
directly or as part of a salubrious interaction with other google 
properties.


They had about 2.5Billion left over for their trouble in the quarter 
ending 9/30 which isn't too shabby on a gross of 14 billion.

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Pierre-Yves Maunier]

Hi,

I think few people understand French on this list. You should try FRnOG.

Pierre-Yves Maunier


Le 19 novembre 2012 17:48, jipe foo  a écrit :

> Bonjour à tous,
>
> Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur les
> plages d'adresses suivantes:
>
> inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
> netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
> descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
> country:FR
> admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
> tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
>
> inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
> netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
> descr:  Orange France - WFP
> country:FR
> admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
> tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
>
> S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de connexions WIFI
> partagées (au moins pour la seconde) ?
>
> Merci d'avance,
>
> --
> J
>



-- 
Pierre-Yves Maunier

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Jon Lewis]

Pourquoi demandez-vous des questions NANOG que Wanadoo peut répondre?

Hopefully google translate hasn't butchered that too badly.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Pierre-Yves Maunier wrote:


Hi,

I think few people understand French on this list. You should try FRnOG.

Pierre-Yves Maunier


Le 19 novembre 2012 17:48, jipe foo  a écrit :


Bonjour à tous,

Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur les
plages d'adresses suivantes:

inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
country:FR
admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
tech-c: ER1049-RIPE

inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
descr:  Orange France - WFP
country:FR
admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
tech-c: ER1049-RIPE

S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de connexions WIFI
partagées (au moins pour la seconde) ?

Merci d'avance,

--
J





--
Pierre-Yves Maunier



--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 Senior Network Engineer |  therefore you are
 Atlantic Net|
_ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

RE: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Jamie Bowden]

Actually, this is kind of an interesting aside.  Last time I checked, Canada 
counts as North America and large parts of Quebec are inhabited by folks who 
don't speak much, if any, English.  Having said that, I can't recall having 
seen any Quebecois posting in French here, but I find it hard to believe those 
folks don't have use for a list like this.

-- 
Jamie Bowden(ja...@photon.com)
Sr. Sys. Admin. (703) 243-6613 x3848
Photon Research Associates, Inc.
1616 Fort Myer Drive, Suite 1000
Arlington, VA 22209

> -Original Message-
> From: Pierre-Yves Maunier [mailto:na...@maunier.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:59 AM
> To: jipe foo
> Cc: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think few people understand French on this list. You should try
> FRnOG.
> 
> Pierre-Yves Maunier
> 
> 
> Le 19 novembre 2012 17:48, jipe foo  a écrit :
> 
> > Bonjour à tous,
> >
> > Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur
> les
> > plages d'adresses suivantes:
> >
> > inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
> > netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
> > descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
> > country:FR
> > admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
> > tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
> >
> > inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
> > netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
> > descr:  Orange France - WFP
> > country:FR
> > admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
> > tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
> >
> > S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de
> connexions WIFI
> > partagées (au moins pour la seconde) ?
> >
> > Merci d'avance,
> >
> > --
> > J
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Pierre-Yves Maunier

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[William F. Maton Sotomayor]

Il serait mieux si vous contactez directement d'Orange.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, jipe foo wrote:


Bonjour ? tous,

Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur les
plages d'adresses suivantes:

inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
country:FR
admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
tech-c: ER1049-RIPE

inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
descr:  Orange France - WFP
country:FR
admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
tech-c: ER1049-RIPE

S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de connexions WIFI
partag?es (au moins pour la seconde) ?

Merci d'avance,

--
J



wfms

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Patrick W. Gilmore]

On Nov 19, 2012, at 12:16 , Jamie Bowden  wrote:

> Actually, this is kind of an interesting aside.  Last time I checked, Canada 
> counts as North America and large parts of Quebec are inhabited by folks who 
> don't speak much, if any, English.  Having said that, I can't recall having 
> seen any Quebecois posting in French here, but I find it hard to believe 
> those folks don't have use for a list like this.

The entire population of Quebec (and at least some of them speak English) is 
barely under 1/4 of Canada, and about 2.5% of the US.  Hell, it's lower than 
many major metro areas in the US.

Better to ask why we do not post in Spanish, as Mexico has 112M people, plus of 
course "Central America" (whatever that is), the Caribbean, etc.  But we never 
have, and I doubt we will in the future.

-- 
TTFN,
patrick


>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pierre-Yves Maunier [mailto:na...@maunier.org]
>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:59 AM
>> To: jipe foo
>> Cc: NANOG list
>> Subject: Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think few people understand French on this list. You should try
>> FRnOG.
>> 
>> Pierre-Yves Maunier
>> 
>> 
>> Le 19 novembre 2012 17:48, jipe foo  a écrit :
>> 
>>> Bonjour à tous,
>>> 
>>> Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur
>> les
>>> plages d'adresses suivantes:
>>> 
>>> inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
>>> netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
>>> descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
>>> country:FR
>>> admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
>>> tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
>>> 
>>> inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
>>> netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
>>> descr:  Orange France - WFP
>>> country:FR
>>> admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
>>> tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
>>> 
>>> S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de
>> connexions WIFI
>>> partagées (au moins pour la seconde) ?
>>> 
>>> Merci d'avance,
>>> 
>>> --
>>> J
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Pierre-Yves Maunier
> 

Re: Long and unabbreviatable IPv6 addresses with random overloaded bits, vs. tunnelbroker

[Dylan N]

IIRC, EDIS, at least,will give you large blocks and delegate reverse
DNS authority (+ assign your v6 block to your RIPE handle/info) if you ask.


On 11/18/2012 5:53 PM, Constantine A. Murenin wrote:
> Dear NANOG@,
>
> I came across an interesting problem in trying to find an affordable
> KVM provider with IPv6 support.
>
> It seems like several rather major and reputable providers in the
> value sector do claim to have IPv6 support, but once you get your IPv6
> addresses or subnets from them, you might be rather disappointed.

Generic IP Connectivity Provisioning Profile

[mohamed.boucadair]

Dear all,

Ron suggested I share this document in this mailing list in order to assess 
whether there is interest from the nanog community to carry out this effort 
within IETF. If you are supporting this effort, please voice it. Your feedback 
will help Ron in making a decision to AD-sponsor this document in the IETF. 

This is an effort trying to capture and expose the IP connectivity service 
provided by the network layer to upper services, to adjacent networks, 
offered/delivered to customers, etc. The document focuses on the definition of 
the CPP itself and does not discuss for instance how this is translated into 
configuration data/policies to be enforced in underlying nodes.

Abstract:
   This document describes the Connectivity Provisioning Profile (CPP)
   and proposes a CPP Template to capture IP connectivity requirements
   to be met in the context of delivery of services (e.g.  Voice over IP
   or IP TV) which are to be plugged upon an IP/MPLS infrastructure.
   The CPP defines the set of IP transfer parameters to be supported by
   the underlying IP/MPLS transport network together with a reachability
   scope and bandwidth/capacity needs.  Appropriate performance metrics
   such as one-way delay, one-way delay variation are used to
   characterize an IP transfer service.  Both global and restricted
   reachability scopes can be captured in the CPP.

   Having the generic CPP template allows for (1) automating the process
   of service negotiation and activation, thus accelerating service
   provisioning, (2) setting the (traffic) objectives of Traffic
   Engineering functions and service management functions and (3)
   enriching service and network management systems with 'decision-
   making' capabilities based on negotiated/offered CPPs.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-connectivity-provisioning-profile
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-connectivity-provisioning-profile-02


Comments are more than welcome.

Cheers,
Med

Youtube

[Glauber Derlland]

Hi,

Anyone know what's going to inform with Youtube here in Brazil this
horrible, super slow it is already 14 days.

-- 

Glauber Derlland
81-3497-7250 / 81-8859-3306 / 81-4062-9207 / 11-4063-0189
INOC-DBA.br: 262792*100
www.vescnet.com.br
msn: vesc.net@hotmail. 
http://as262792.peeringdb.com/

RE: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Jean-Francois . TremblayING]

Jamie Bowden  a écrit sur 19/11/2012 12:16:31 PM :
> Having said that, I can't recall having seen any Quebecois posting 
> in French here, [snip]

The intersection of Quebecois who speak only French and those who 
have anything to do with networking is hopefully very close to 0. 

That said, our typical first-encounter joke with a vendor is asking 
for a French version of their CLI. Always funny to see how they react. 

/JF
Videotron, AS5769

Re: Youtube

[Karlin König]

2012/11/19 Glauber Derlland 

> Hi,
>
> Anyone know what's going to inform with Youtube here in Brazil this
> horrible, super slow it is already 14 days.
>
> --
>
> Glauber Derlland
> 81-3497-7250 / 81-8859-3306 / 81-4062-9207 / 11-4063-0189
> INOC-DBA.br: 262792*100
> www.vescnet.com.br
> msn: vesc.net@hotmail. 
> http://as262792.peeringdb.com/
>


You'd be better of mailing LACNOG and your ISP about this.
Or at least try to be more verbose on the "super slow" to try and make a
relevant topic.

Thank You,
-- 
-Karlin

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Joly MacFie]

WIth my limited understanding of such topics I've long been confused by
something I read a couple of years back - in an Arbor report perhaps - to
the effect that by being the originator of so much traffic, and as they
built out their own network, Google were making money on transit.

Can anyone elaborate or refute?


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:55 AM, joel jaeggli  wrote:

> On 11/19/12 5:59 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:
>
>> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
>> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain this
>> conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
>> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is ok, I'd
>> do the same, had I the leverage)
>>
> Or there's a simpler explanation. Which is that it makes money either
> directly or as part of a salubrious interaction with other google
> properties.
>
> They had about 2.5Billion left over for their trouble in the quarter
> ending 9/30 which isn't too shabby on a gross of 14 billion.
>
>


-- 
---
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
 http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
 VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
--
-

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Michael Loftis]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:30 AM, Leo Bicknell  wrote:

> In a message written on Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 03:59:22PM +0200, Saku Ytti
> wrote:
> > What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
> > enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain this
> > conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
> > upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is ok,
> I'd
> > do the same, had I the leverage)
>
> I suspect you're thinking about revenue in terms of say, the
> advertisements they run with the videos.  I beleive you're right, that
> would never pay the bills.
>
> Consider a different model.  Google checks out your gmail account, and
> discovers you really like Red Bull and from your YouTube profile knows
> you watch a lot of Ke$ha videos.  It also discovers there are a lot more
> folks with the same profile.  They can now sell that data to a marketing
> firm, that there is a strong link between energy drinks and Ke$ha
> videos.
>

Actually GOOG doesn't allow this as policy.  Different BUs are rather quite
restricted on how they can obtain other BUs data.  In general "if you can't
do it as XYZ corp, you can't do it from inside of GOOG either" -- there's a
sort of privacy/policy watchdog group inside of the puzzle palace with at
least a few people who are *very* concerned with privacy and data
protection.  I know this just because I've met a handful of them over the
years.  The ones in the group charged with making sure your data isn't
opened up to everyone and their brother, even inside of google, to this
sort of thing are pretty fanatical too.  Ads can't use any data in any
other way than anyone else could from GMail.  Same goes with search.  They
can (and clearly do) share technology, software, infrastructure, and
methodologies, but, the actual data is a pretty touchy subject between BUs
due to their own policy.  Even if they disband the group, everyone I've
ever met with any responsibility towards user data shared the attitude that
doing something many of us would consider "icky" would be somethign they'd
block against internally.   (such as just opening up the gmail to any
advertiser that came along, aggregating data between BUs to sell individual
preferences, etc)

Will this be the case forever?  Dunno.  The ethos/culture is what keeps all
this in check right now and culture is known to change.  All that said,
they're quite profitable now, and so I don't know that there's a pressure
from profit motive to improve that revenue stream by doing dirty pool.
 Especially if the world governments decide they're playing dirty pool and
go looking.



>
> GOOG-411 - building a corpus of voice data for Android's voice
> recognition.
>
> ReCaptcha - improving visual recognition for their book scanning
> process.
>
> Most of the "free" services are simply the cheapest way to get the data
> needed for some other service that can make much more money.  It may
> seem weird to write off all the costs of YouTube as data aquisition
> costs, but there's far more money to be made selling marketing data than
> ads against streaming videos...
>

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Nick Olsen]

I think this would be true if they offered some form of paid peering.

Google want's a good fast route to your customers, And your customers want 
a good fast route to Google.

IF Google ran its transit at or near congestion. This could degrade your 
customers performance. After so long, You'd contact Google and attempt to 
troubleshoot. And they would say if you want good peering with them, You 
should pay them to peer. Where you could control just how much traffic was 
on your port and expand it if needed. Pretty sure this was Comcast and 
level3/Netflix did. But Comcast had the winning leverage (more eyeballs) in 
the discussion.

But, I don't think Google does this. My knowledge on AS15169 is limited. 
But I recall them having a very strict peering policy.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations (855) FLSPEED  x106


 From: "Joly MacFie" 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:21 PM
To: "joel jaeggli" 
Subject: Re: Google/Youtube problems

WIth my limited understanding of such topics I've long been confused by
something I read a couple of years back - in an Arbor report perhaps - to
the effect that by being the originator of so much traffic, and as they
built out their own network, Google were making money on transit.

Can anyone elaborate or refute?

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:55 AM, joel jaeggli  wrote:

> On 11/19/12 5:59 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:
>
>> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
>> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain this
>> conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
>> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is ok, 
I'd
>> do the same, had I the leverage)
>>
> Or there's a simpler explanation. Which is that it makes money either
> directly or as part of a salubrious interaction with other google
> properties.
>
> They had about 2.5Billion left over for their trouble in the quarter
> ending 9/30 which isn't too shabby on a gross of 14 billion.
>
>

-- 
---
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
--
-

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[jipe]

Le 19 nov. 2012 à 17:56, Pierre-Yves Maunier  a écrit :

> Hi, 
> 
> I think few people understand French on this list. You should try FRnOG.

Ouups, of course the message was intended to FRnoOG 

Sorry for the noise guys. 

-- 
J 

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Scott Weeks]

--- jle...@lewis.org wrote:
From: Jon Lewis 

Pourquoi demandez-vous des questions NANOG que Wanadoo peut répondre?

Hopefully google translate hasn't butchered that too badly.
-



It said something about eggs?  Were you hungry for some RA eggs?  ;-)

"Why do you ask questions that NANOG Wanadoo © RA can lay eggs?"

scott

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Ray Soucy]

The universal translator is still a few years out it seems.
Written that way it's borderline insulting. ;-)

2012/11/19 Jon Lewis :
> Pourquoi demandez-vous des questions NANOG que Wanadoo peut répondre?
>
> Hopefully google translate hasn't butchered that too badly.
>
>
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Pierre-Yves Maunier wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think few people understand French on this list. You should try FRnOG.
>>
>> Pierre-Yves Maunier
>>
>>
>> Le 19 novembre 2012 17:48, jipe foo  a écrit :
>>
>>> Bonjour à tous,
>>>
>>> Quelqu'un d'Orange (ou autre) pourrait-il me donner plus d'info sur les
>>> plages d'adresses suivantes:
>>>
>>> inetnum:81.253.0.0 - 81.253.95.255
>>> netname:ORANGE-FRANCE-HSIAB
>>> descr:  Orange France / Wanadoo service
>>> country:FR
>>> admin-c:AR10027-RIPE
>>> tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
>>>
>>> inetnum:90.96.0.0 - 90.96.199.255
>>> netname:ORANGEFRANCE-WFP
>>> descr:  Orange France - WFP
>>> country:FR
>>> admin-c:ER1049-RIPE
>>> tech-c: ER1049-RIPE
>>>
>>> S'agit-il de plages d'adresses de mobiles, de livebox ou de connexions
>>> WIFI
>>> partagées (au moins pour la seconde) ?
>>>
>>> Merci d'avance,
>>>
>>> --
>>> J
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pierre-Yves Maunier
>>
>
> --
>  Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
>  Senior Network Engineer |  therefore you are
>  Atlantic Net|
> _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_



-- 
Ray Patrick Soucy
Network Engineer
University of Maine System

T: 207-561-3526
F: 207-561-3531

MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
www.maineren.net

Re: Plages d'adresses IP Orange

[Carsten Bormann]

On Nov 19, 2012, at 22:24, Ray Soucy  wrote:

> The universal translator is still a few years out it seems.

The universal character set is widely deployed, though.

The universal translator just can't do it's thing if people still don't manage 
to send the simplest emails without mojibake (google that, if you don't know 
what it means).

If you transform

> Pourquoi demandez-vous des questions NANOG que Wanadoo peut répondre?

back into

> Pourquoi demandez-vous des questions NANOG que Wanadoo peut répondre?

the goog gives you:

> Why do you ask questions that NANOG Wanadoo can answer?

Well, almost, but no egg in your face :-)

Grüße, Carsten

Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[Jeff Kell]

Looking for some guidance/references on the use of UPC versus APC terminations 
on fiber
cabling.  Traditionally we have done all of our fiber plant targeting data 
usage with
UPC connectors.  We are also looking at proposals for fiber distribution plant 
for
video, and the possibility of using some of the existing fiber plant for that 
purpose;
as well as any new fiber plant that gets installed for video potentially as 
data.

The video folks are set, determined, and insistent that they need APC 
terminations.

All data references I have found preach UPC.  Cisco's SFP reference page even 
states (in
bold):

> *Note:* Only connections with patch cords with PC or UPC connectors are 
> supported.
> Patch cords with APC connectors are not supported. All cables and cable 
> assemblies
> used must be compliant with the standards specified in the standards section.

So are we doomed to having physically separated fiber plants with suitable 
connectors /
jumpers dedicated to video?  Anyone been down this snaky looking path?

Jeff

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Scott Whyte]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Nick Olsen  wrote:
> I think this would be true if they offered some form of paid peering.
>
> Google want's a good fast route to your customers, And your customers want
> a good fast route to Google.
>
> IF Google ran its transit at or near congestion. This could degrade your
> customers performance. After so long, You'd contact Google and attempt to
> troubleshoot. And they would say if you want good peering with them, You
> should pay them to peer. Where you could control just how much traffic was
> on your port and expand it if needed. Pretty sure this was Comcast and
> level3/Netflix did. But Comcast had the winning leverage (more eyeballs) in
> the discussion.
>
> But, I don't think Google does this. My knowledge on AS15169 is limited.
> But I recall them having a very strict peering policy.

Strict?  Really?
https://peering.google.com/about/peering_policy.html

>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations (855) FLSPEED  x106
>
> 
>  From: "Joly MacFie" 
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:21 PM
> To: "joel jaeggli" 
> Subject: Re: Google/Youtube problems
>
> WIth my limited understanding of such topics I've long been confused by
> something I read a couple of years back - in an Arbor report perhaps - to
> the effect that by being the originator of so much traffic, and as they
> built out their own network, Google were making money on transit.
>
> Can anyone elaborate or refute?
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:55 AM, joel jaeggli  wrote:
>
>> On 11/19/12 5:59 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:
>>
>>> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
>>> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain this
>>> conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
>>> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is ok,
> I'd
>>> do the same, had I the leverage)
>>>
>> Or there's a simpler explanation. Which is that it makes money either
>> directly or as part of a salubrious interaction with other google
>> properties.
>>
>> They had about 2.5Billion left over for their trouble in the quarter
>> ending 9/30 which isn't too shabby on a gross of 14 billion.
>>
>>
>
> --
> ---
> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
> http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
> VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
> --
> -
>

Re: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:37:05 -0500, Jeff Kell said:
> The video folks are set, determined, and insistent that they need APC 
> terminations.
>
> All data references I have found preach UPC.

Remember - the nozzles on unleaded gas pumps aren't interchangeable with the
ones that dispense leaded gas (if any of those still exist?).  Perhaps
somebody decided this was a good idea for video and data as well?



pgp8a3Zh5TKKP.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[Walter Keen]

Where I work we maintain a mix of Telecom, Data, and CATV networking. 

APC is REQUIRED per many manufacturers for video. It reduces reflections of the 
signal which in the video world can cause quite a few headaches and has the 
potential to have severe impact on video quality. 

Also, if you're looking at GPON in the future, it also requires it. 

We're staring to standardize on all-APC patch panels. 

Cisco's SFP reference is not wrong. ONLY UPC is supported, but that is at the 
SFP interface. For us it means pre-ordering online quite a few LC/UPC -> SC/APC 
jumpers so we can interface with the patch panels. 

So, Both are right. You could just as easily use APC for only video and keep 
all UPC for data and SONET. We just are going slowly to all APC to keep the 
management of spare parts easier. 



- Original Message -

From: "Jeff Kell"  
To: "nanog"  
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:37:05 PM 
Subject: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC 

Looking for some guidance/references on the use of UPC versus APC terminations 
on fiber 
cabling. Traditionally we have done all of our fiber plant targeting data usage 
with 
UPC connectors. We are also looking at proposals for fiber distribution plant 
for 
video, and the possibility of using some of the existing fiber plant for that 
purpose; 
as well as any new fiber plant that gets installed for video potentially as 
data. 

The video folks are set, determined, and insistent that they need APC 
terminations. 

All data references I have found preach UPC. Cisco's SFP reference page even 
states (in 
bold): 

> *Note:* Only connections with patch cords with PC or UPC connectors are 
> supported. 
> Patch cords with APC connectors are not supported. All cables and cable 
> assemblies 
> used must be compliant with the standards specified in the standards section. 

So are we doomed to having physically separated fiber plants with suitable 
connectors / 
jumpers dedicated to video? Anyone been down this snaky looking path? 

Jeff 

Re: Google/Youtube problems

[Nick Olsen]

I stand corrected. That's what I get for going off memory.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations (855) FLSPEED  x106


 From: "Scott Whyte" 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:48 PM
To: n...@flhsi.com
Subject: Re: Google/Youtube problems

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Nick Olsen  wrote:
> I think this would be true if they offered some form of paid peering.
>
> Google want's a good fast route to your customers, And your customers 
want
> a good fast route to Google.
>
> IF Google ran its transit at or near congestion. This could degrade your
> customers performance. After so long, You'd contact Google and attempt 
to
> troubleshoot. And they would say if you want good peering with them, You
> should pay them to peer. Where you could control just how much traffic 
was
> on your port and expand it if needed. Pretty sure this was Comcast and
> level3/Netflix did. But Comcast had the winning leverage (more eyeballs) 
in
> the discussion.
>
> But, I don't think Google does this. My knowledge on AS15169 is limited.
> But I recall them having a very strict peering policy.

Strict?  Really?
https://peering.google.com/about/peering_policy.html

>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations (855) FLSPEED  x106
>
> 
>  From: "Joly MacFie" 
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:21 PM
> To: "joel jaeggli" 
> Subject: Re: Google/Youtube problems
>
> WIth my limited understanding of such topics I've long been confused by
> something I read a couple of years back - in an Arbor report perhaps - 
to
> the effect that by being the originator of so much traffic, and as they
> built out their own network, Google were making money on transit.
>
> Can anyone elaborate or refute?
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:55 AM, joel jaeggli  wrote:
>
>> On 11/19/12 5:59 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:
>>
>>> What I'm trying to say, I can't see youtube generating anywhere nearly
>>> enough revenue who shift 10% (or more) of Internet. And to explain 
this
>>> conundrum to myself, I've speculated accounting magic (which I'd frown
>>> upon) and leveraging market position to get free capacity (which is 
ok,
> I'd
>>> do the same, had I the leverage)
>>>
>> Or there's a simpler explanation. Which is that it makes money either
>> directly or as part of a salubrious interaction with other google
>> properties.
>>
>> They had about 2.5Billion left over for their trouble in the quarter
>> ending 9/30 which isn't too shabby on a gross of 14 billion.
>>
>>
>
> --
> ---
> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
> WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
> http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
> VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
> --
> -
>

Re: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Jeff Kell wrote:

So are we doomed to having physically separated fiber plants with 
suitable connectors / jumpers dedicated to video?  Anyone been down this 
snaky looking path?


Yes. Someone comes up with the brilliant idea to have APC on all new 
installs, people end up using UPC patch cables anyway, and mayhem ensues. 
You end up with having to stock substantially more patch cables than 
otherwise, because now you need LC/UPC-SC/UPC and LC/UPC-SC-APC, you need 
SC/APC-SC/APC, you need SC/UPC-SC/APC and so on. It's a mess.


If you need to do HFC in low-volume, do APC on those only. I believe it's 
going to be cheaper in the long run than trying to go APC everywhere.


If a majority is going to be HFC, then you might be better off to go APC 
everywhere.


--
Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se

Re: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[Alex Brooks]

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Jeff Kell  wrote:

> Looking for some guidance/references on the use of UPC versus APC
> terminations on fiber
> cabling.


Something similar has recently been discussed on NANOG.  It might be worth
having a look though that discussion as well if you want more background
info and you missed it back in September:
http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2012-September/052330.html

Alex

Re: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[William Herrin]

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Jeff Kell  wrote:
> Looking for some guidance/references on the use of UPC versus APC 
> terminations on fiber
> cabling.  Traditionally we have done all of our fiber plant targeting data 
> usage with
> UPC connectors.  We are also looking at proposals for fiber distribution 
> plant for
> video, and the possibility of using some of the existing fiber plant for that 
> purpose;
> as well as any new fiber plant that gets installed for video potentially as 
> data.
>
> The video folks are set, determined, and insistent that they need APC 
> terminations.

Over the lifetime of this fiber plant, you will find yourself using
jumpers which convert to many different equipment-side connectors. So,
give the equipment side connectors a very low priority in your
equation and focus on capability. If you use APC terminations, can
jumper cables adequately convert them to UPC connectors on the
equipment side? Is the reverse true? That answer should drive your
choice.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William D. Herrin  her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: 
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004

Re: Fiber terminations -- UPC vs APC

[Lamar Owen]

On Nov 19, 2012, at 4:37 PM, Jeff Kell wrote:

Looking for some guidance/references on the use of UPC versus APC  
terminations on fiber
cabling.  Traditionally we have done all of our fiber plant  
targeting data usage with
UPC connectors.  We are also looking at proposals for fiber  
distribution plant for
video, and the possibility of using some of the existing fiber plant  
for that purpose;
as well as any new fiber plant that gets installed for video  
potentially as data.


The video folks are set, determined, and insistent that they need  
APC terminations.


APC is pretty much the standard for high-power video distribution, and  
for very good reasons.  The return loss is much better for APC than  
for UPC, for instance, and that can be very significant depending upon  
the equipment being used to drive.  Much video distribution gear,  
including passive splitters and EDFA's, are only available with APC  
connectors.


Mating an APC to a UPC will result in an 'air-gap attenuator' being  
created, and that may be a problem.  A significant problem for some  
gear, in fact.


Really high-power long-haul gear may need APC as well, even for  
networking stuff.


Your choice boils down to parallel plants or only APC with UPC jumpers  
for non-APC equipment.  You really really don't want to have any UPC  
connectors in a really high-power path that needs APC all the way; I  
have actually seen some warranty statements, for some older equipment,  
primarily EDFA modules, that indicate that the warranty would be  
voided if any non-APC connectors were in the path anywhere.  The  
reflections from a UPC end can detune some of these lasers, and can,  
in theory at least, cause permanent transmitter damage that won't be  
under warranty.


You could, though, provision half APC and half UPC, since the color  
coding is pretty clear.  You can even use, say, all LC on your UPC  
patches and all SC on you APC patches or similar, and get both with  
little danger of intermating.  I think I'd personally rather just  
provision all APC in the backbone fiber runs and install APC to UPC  
distribution runs to your network gear.


But you'll have to train people to always plug green connectors into  
green connectors, and blue into blue, and never should green and blue  
mix.

NTP Issues Today

[Van Wolfe]

Hello,

Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.

Thanks,
Van

Re: NTP Issues Today

[Scott Weeks]

--- vanwo...@gmail.com wrote:
From: Van Wolfe 

Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
-


You need to provide more information.  For example, what NTP
source are you using?

scott

Re: NTP Issues Today

[Clay Haynes]

Scott,
I can confirm this had happened on one of my test servers - it was
pointing to tick.usno.navy.mil and tock.usno.navy.mil at the time.


- Clay



On 11/19/12 6:32 PM, "Scott Weeks"  wrote:

>
>
>--- vanwo...@gmail.com wrote:
>From: Van Wolfe 
>
>Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
>times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
>-
>
>
>You need to provide more information.  For example, what NTP
>source are you using?
>
>scott
>

Re: NTP Issues Today

[Scott Weeks]

On 11/19/12 6:32 PM, "Scott Weeks"  wrote:
>--- vanwo...@gmail.com wrote:
>From: Van Wolfe 
>
>Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
>times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
>-

>You need to provide more information.  For example, what NTP
>source are you using?
--
--- chay...@centracomm.net wrote:
From: Clay Haynes 

I can confirm this had happened on one of my test servers - it was
pointing to tick.usno.navy.mil and tock.usno.navy.mil at the time.
---

That's not a very diverse set of NTP servers.  In the future if 
you think it might be an outage, you might try on the 'outages' 
list: http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages

For this one, you might ask the server contact if there was a
problem: http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/TockUsnoNavyMil

That assumes you've done your homework first and made sure it
wasn't something in your network.

scott

Muni Fiber redux: nuts and volts

[Jay Ashworth]

Last May we talked at some length about municipally owned wholesale fiber,
and whether it was a commercially feasible idea.

For those who have a few minutes (I figure, it's a holiday; the Whacky Weekend
starts early :-), I'd like some advice, input, pointers, or the like, on 
exactly how you *do* this these days.  I'm looking at 2.8 square miles of
city, about 10k connections or so.  I'm inclined to say trunking should be 
underground; I'm not sure if the drops need to be as well, though this *is* 
Florida; One Big Storm probably eats up even the 6x differential I've been 
told trenching the drops cost.

What sort of ONT would one use for this?  I am assuming it's impractical to
do layer 1 and just move patch cords around; I'll have to work at layer 2,
and supply to my wholesale customers some termination interface that extends
them to the GigE or DOCSIS coax coming out the other end of the box...?

Are there installation contractors with packaged proposals for this sort
of thing, at this point?

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth  Baylink   j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think   RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA   #natog  +1 727 647 1274

Re: NTP Issues Today

[Scott Weeks]

--- wbai...@satelliteintelligencegroup.com wrote:
From: Warren Bailey 

Or you could just concede the fact that the navy is playing with time travel 
again.
--


To finish this thread off for the archives...

Apparently something was up with the navy stuff as a post on
the outages shows.

Lesson learned: Use more than one NTP source.

scott

NTP Issues Today

[Oscar Orosco]

We had the same issue on our NTP server pointing to tick.usno.navy.mil. Set 
date back to year 2000.



Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:21:55 -0700

From: Van Wolfe mailto:vanwo...@gmail.com>>

To: nanog@nanog.org

Subject: NTP Issues Today

Message-ID:


mailto:cameggd4cdqwhxqe_jbvpnr-pkke9lxqa+kzj97anhfonjwz...@mail.gmail.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1



Hello,



Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server

times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.



Thanks,

Van

Re: NTP Issues Today

[Warren Bailey]

Or you could just concede the fact that the navy is playing with time travel 
again.




From my Galaxy Note II, please excuse any mistakes.


 Original message 
From: Scott Weeks 
Date: 11/19/2012 3:52 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: NTP Issues Today







On 11/19/12 6:32 PM, "Scott Weeks"  wrote:
>--- vanwo...@gmail.com wrote:
>From: Van Wolfe 
>
>Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
>times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
>-

>You need to provide more information.  For example, what NTP
>source are you using?
--
--- chay...@centracomm.net wrote:
From: Clay Haynes 

I can confirm this had happened on one of my test servers - it was
pointing to tick.usno.navy.mil and tock.usno.navy.mil at the time.
---

That's not a very diverse set of NTP servers.  In the future if
you think it might be an outage, you might try on the 'outages'
list: http://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages

For this one, you might ask the server contact if there was a
problem: http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/TockUsnoNavyMil

That assumes you've done your homework first and made sure it
wasn't something in your network.

scott

Re: NTP Issues Today

[Mark Andrews]

In message 
, Van Wolfe writes:
> Hello,
> 
> Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
> times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
> 
> Thanks,
> Van

NTP should be immune from this sort of behaviour unless you did a
ntpdate at the wrong moment.  The clocks should have been marked
as insane.

Mark
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org

RE: NTP Issues Today

[Wallace Keith]

Just got paged with a pbx alarm that had 1970 as the year. By the time I logged 
in , it was showing 2012.  Using GPS for time and date. 

-Original Message-
From: Mark Andrews [mailto:ma...@isc.org] 
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:42 PM
To: Van Wolfe
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: NTP Issues Today


In message 
, Van Wolfe writes:
> Hello,
> 
> Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server 
> times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
> 
> Thanks,
> Van

NTP should be immune from this sort of behaviour unless you did a ntpdate at 
the wrong moment.  The clocks should have been marked as insane.

Mark
--
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org

Re: NTP Issues Today

[George Herbert]

crossreplying to outages list.

Is anyone ELSE seeing GPS issues?  This could well have been an
unrelated issue on that particular PBX.

If this was real, then the mother of all infrastructure attacks might
be underway...

One glitch on tick and tock and one malfunctioning PBX is not
sufficient evidence of pattern - much less hostile activity - to
induce panic, but it would perhaps be a wise time to check
time-related logs?


-george

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Wallace Keith
 wrote:
> Just got paged with a pbx alarm that had 1970 as the year. By the time I 
> logged in , it was showing 2012.  Using GPS for time and date.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Andrews [mailto:ma...@isc.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:42 PM
> To: Van Wolfe
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: NTP Issues Today
>
>
> In message 
> 
> , Van Wolfe writes:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
>> times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to 2012.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Van
>
> NTP should be immune from this sort of behaviour unless you did a ntpdate at 
> the wrong moment.  The clocks should have been marked as insane.
>
> Mark
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
>
>



-- 
-george william herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com

Re: [outages] NTP Issues Today

[Mike Lyon]

Anyone check out the NIST GPS Archive?

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/gpsarchive.cfm

-Mike


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Sid Rao  wrote:

> We had multiple servers synchronized with Windows/MS time change their
> clock to the year 2000 today.  It broke many things, including AD
> authentication.
>
> These servers had been properly synchronized for years.
>
> They were synchronized with Microsoft and NIST NTP servers.
>
> This may not be isolated.
>
> Sid Rao | CTI Group | +1 (317) 262-4677
>
> On Nov 19, 2012, at 10:29 PM, "George Herbert" 
> wrote:
>
> > crossreplying to outages list.
> >
> > Is anyone ELSE seeing GPS issues?  This could well have been an
> > unrelated issue on that particular PBX.
> >
> > If this was real, then the mother of all infrastructure attacks might
> > be underway...
> >
> > One glitch on tick and tock and one malfunctioning PBX is not
> > sufficient evidence of pattern - much less hostile activity - to
> > induce panic, but it would perhaps be a wise time to check
> > time-related logs?
> >
> >
> > -george
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Wallace Keith
> >  wrote:
> >> Just got paged with a pbx alarm that had 1970 as the year. By the time
> I logged in , it was showing 2012.  Using GPS for time and date.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Mark Andrews [mailto:ma...@isc.org]
> >> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:42 PM
> >> To: Van Wolfe
> >> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> >> Subject: Re: NTP Issues Today
> >>
> >>
> >> In message <
> cameggd4cdqwhxqe_jbvpnr-pkke9lxqa+kzj97anhfonjwz...@mail.gmail.com>
> >> , Van Wolfe writes:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Did anyone else experience issues with NTP today?  We had our server
> >>> times update to the year 2000 at around 3:30 MT, then revert back to
> 2012.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Van
> >>
> >> NTP should be immune from this sort of behaviour unless you did a
> ntpdate at the wrong moment.  The clocks should have been marked as insane.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >> --
> >> Mark Andrews, ISC
> >> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> >> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -george william herbert
> > george.herb...@gmail.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
> Outages mailing list
> outa...@outages.org
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages
>



-- 
Mike Lyon
408-621-4826
mike.l...@gmail.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon

fiber termination tools

[Jon Lewis]

We've always done our own fiber termination in-house using Corning Unicam 
(currently Unicam Pretium) tool kits and ends.  Over the years I've 
dealt with fiber (primarily 62.5um mm FDDI), I've noticed that fiber seems 
to come in two "styles".  Some lets me strip the buffer and coating easily 
in separate steps using the buffer/coating dual-notch mechanical stripper 
from our Corning tool kit.  Some, it seems the buffer and coating are 
fused and the coating comes off with the buffer, but because both are 
being stripped at the same time, much more pulling force is needed, and 
the buffer/coating has to be removed in small steps or the fiber breaks :(


First, I wonder if anyone knows why this is?  Second, I wonder if a 
thermal stripper would help and is preferable to a strictly mechanical 
stripper?


--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 Senior Network Engineer |  therefore you are
 Atlantic Net|
_ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

The Verge article about Verizon's Sandy Cleanup Efforts in Manhattan

[Derek Ivey]

I saw this on Reddit and thought it was fascinating. I figured I'd share 
it here too since no one else did.


http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/17/3655442/restoring-verizon-service-manhattan-hurricane-sandy

Derek