Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
On 10/7/2012 1:47 PM, Tom Limoncelli wrote: Have there been studies on how much latency CGN adds to a typical internet user? I'd also be interested in anecdotes. You are typically talking microseconds of additional latency for sessions transiting a CGN/LSN type node. aj
Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 03:18:56PM -0700, Cameron Byrne wrote: > On Oct 7, 2012 1:48 PM, "Tom Limoncelli" wrote: > > > > Have there been studies on how much latency CGN adds to a typical > > internet user? I'd also be interested in anecdotes. > > > > Anecdote. Sub-millasecond, with full load. (gigs and gigs) . CGN does not > meaningfully add latency. CGN is not enough of a factor to impact happy > eyeballs in a way that improves ipv6 use. Confirmed by my experience. Best regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: d...@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Daniel Roesen wrote: > On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 03:18:56PM -0700, Cameron Byrne wrote: >> On Oct 7, 2012 1:48 PM, "Tom Limoncelli" wrote: >> > >> > Have there been studies on how much latency CGN adds to a typical >> > internet user? I'd also be interested in anecdotes. >> > >> >> Anecdote. Sub-millasecond, with full load. (gigs and gigs) . CGN does not >> meaningfully add latency. CGN is not enough of a factor to impact happy >> eyeballs in a way that improves ipv6 use. > > Confirmed by my experience. Thanks for the info! Tom -- Speaking at MacTech Conference 2012. http://mactech.com/conference http://EverythingSysadmin.com -- my blog http://www.TomOnTime.com -- my videos
Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
Owen DeLong wrote: > >On Oct 7, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Cameron Byrne wrote: > >> On Oct 7, 2012 1:48 PM, "Tom Limoncelli" wrote: >>> >>> Have there been studies on how much latency CGN adds to a typical >>> internet user? I'd also be interested in anecdotes. >>> >> >> Anecdote. Sub-millasecond, with full load. (gigs and gigs) . CGN does >not >> meaningfully add latency. CGN is not enough of a factor to impact >happy >> eyeballs in a way that improves ipv6 use. >> >>> I've seen theoretical predictions but by now we should have >>> measurements from early-world deployments. >>> >> >> Most mobile providers have been doing what is commonly called cgn for >5 to >> 10 years. CGN is not a new concept or implementation for mobile. >> > >True, but, as we have discussed before, mobile users, especially in the >US, >have dramatically lowered expectations of internet access from their >mobile >devices vs. what they expect from a household ISP. > >We expect half the services we want to be crippled by mobile carriers >because >they don't like competition. We file lawsuits when that happens on our >terrestrial connections. > >Owen Except now you have to do mediation, since class action lawsuits are now null and void. :) -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: IPv4 address length technical design
On 7 Oct 2012, at 18:17, William Herrin wrote: > > Intentionally crashing the moon into the earth is a new idea. How far > should we run with it before concluding that it not only isn't a very > good one, considering it hasn't taught us anything we didn't already > know? http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/july98/0041.html Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
Re: IPv4 address length technical design
On 6 Oct 2012, at 02:11, Michael Thomas wrote: > > Wasn't David Cheriton proposing something like this? > > http://www-dsg.stanford.edu/triad/ CCNx basically routes on URLs http://conferences.sigcomm.org/co-next/2009/papers/Jacobson.pdf Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/
RE: IPv4 address length technical design
I'll identify myself as the person who asked you the question privately. Unfortunately, Barry, I still don't see a problem statement in your response. It sounds to me as though it really is nothing more than an interesting thought experiment, and there's nothing wrong with that at all as long as we all acknowledge the purpose of the discussion. :-) Dave -Original Message- From: Barry Shein [mailto:b...@world.std.com] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:25 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Cc: Barry Shein Subject: RE: IPv4 address length technical design > While this is an interesting thought experiment, what problem are > you > trying to solve with this proposal? (asked privately but it seems worthwhile answering publicly, bcc'd, you can id yourself if you like.) Look, as I said in the original message I was asked to speak to a group of young "hackers" at the HackerSpace in Singapore. I wanted to be interesting and thought-provoking, make them think through how this stuff works for an hour or two, encourage them to poke holes in it, etc. It was one of the audience who pointed out the potential MTU problem. What problem does it solve, potentially? 0. Despite fears expressed herein I am not single-handedly planning to convert the worldwide internet to this over the weekend. I'm going to need some help :-) 1. It eliminates the need for DNS in its generally used form. Sure, we've overloaded DNS with other functions from SPF -- in fact it was Meng Weng Wong, inventor of SPF, who graciously invited me to speak -- to whatever. But that's begging the point, there's nothing interesting here about distributed, lightweight databases other than eliminating one. Keep the DNS protocol per se for those things if you like. But given this you won't need to translate between host names and addresses which is really what DNS was invented to do. 2. It makes "addresses" more transparent to humans, particularly when you consider ipv6 addresses as typically displayed (hex.) Is this an important goal? Not sure, but it's certainly true. 3. It's a transfinite space. That just means that like Dewey Decimal etc it can be arbitrarily expanded, you can add more levels or even stick levels in between plus or minus some rules regarding SLDs/TLDs, and other rules which might or might not be imposed (see #4). But its total address space is as large as you allow a payload, there is nothing inherent in the scheme that limits the addressing other than the permutation of all acceptable Unicode glyphs I guess. But since one can also have numeric parts and the set of integers is infinite (that's tongue-in-cheek, somewhat.) 4. Also, because it's transfinite it's arbitrarily segmentable. Again, that just means you can impose any meaning you like on any substring or set of substrings. So for example host.gTLD is generally taken to be something of some significance, or host.co.ccTLD, and that sort of idea can be applied as needed, or not at all. 5. Bits is bits. I don't know how to say that more clearly. An ipv6 address is a string of 128 bits with some segmentation implications (net part, host part.) A host name is a string of bits of varying length. But it's still just ones and zeros, an integer, however you want to read it. The discussion I was responding to on NANOG involved how we got here and where might we be going. I brought up an idea I'd worked out somewhat and have even presented in a small but public forum as being a possible future to consider further. Now you can go back to your regularly scheduled Jim Fleming guffawing. -- -Barry Shein The World | b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD| Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die| Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
Multiple Sprint Outages?
Looks like Sprint is having a very bad day today in the NW? Anybody able to elaborate on exactly where these fiber cuts are and exactly what is impacted? I see mention of several different places that things may be cut right now... We saw sporadic readability issues this AM until we downed our connection to Sprint. http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/10/08/cable-cut-in-midwest-hobbles-alaska-airlines/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/08/sprint-voice-data-down-in-minnesota-washington-oregon-alaska-airlines-flights-delayed/ -Eric -- *Eric Rosenberry* Sr. Infrastructure Architect // Chief Bit Plumber
Re: Multiple Sprint Outages?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 10/08/2012 12:06 PM, Eric Rosenberry wrote: > Looks like Sprint is having a very bad day today in the NW? > > Anybody able to elaborate on exactly where these fiber cuts are and exactly > what is impacted? I see mention of several different places that things > may be cut right now... > > We saw sporadic readability issues this AM until we downed our connection > to Sprint. > > http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/10/08/cable-cut-in-midwest-hobbles-alaska-airlines/ > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/08/sprint-voice-data-down-in-minnesota-washington-oregon-alaska-airlines-flights-delayed/ > > -Eric > - http://tracker.outages.org/reports/view/48 regards, /virendra -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlBzJv4ACgkQ3HuimOHfh+EvrQD/T9hRplTeA0Cqfs9Wt3BUNsc4 iAt2qELtbWZmF6AM+ZYA/3dIX0YRhA/J8rycF8isVvOq26zu2gt92jDxpLE0zfuy =+gyU -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Multiple Sprint Outages?
Yes, multiple reports on the outages list, which you should also join. Short summary: WI and Washington state separate fiber cuts. -george On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Eric Rosenberry wrote: > Looks like Sprint is having a very bad day today in the NW? > > Anybody able to elaborate on exactly where these fiber cuts are and exactly > what is impacted? I see mention of several different places that things > may be cut right now... > > We saw sporadic readability issues this AM until we downed our connection > to Sprint. > > http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/10/08/cable-cut-in-midwest-hobbles-alaska-airlines/ > > http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/08/sprint-voice-data-down-in-minnesota-washington-oregon-alaska-airlines-flights-delayed/ > > -Eric > > -- > *Eric Rosenberry* > Sr. Infrastructure Architect // Chief Bit Plumber -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Re: Multiple Sprint Outages?
As I have received multiple requests for this, blasting it out to the list: To sign up for the outages mailing list, go to: https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages-discussion The website is www.outages.org but email maintenance / list management is at puck.nether.net (Jared Mauch) but managed by Vivendra Rode. -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:19 PM, George Herbert wrote: > Yes, multiple reports on the outages list, which you should also join. > > Short summary: WI and Washington state separate fiber cuts. > > > -george > > On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Eric Rosenberry > wrote: >> Looks like Sprint is having a very bad day today in the NW? >> >> Anybody able to elaborate on exactly where these fiber cuts are and exactly >> what is impacted? I see mention of several different places that things >> may be cut right now... >> >> We saw sporadic readability issues this AM until we downed our connection >> to Sprint. >> >> http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2012/10/08/cable-cut-in-midwest-hobbles-alaska-airlines/ >> >> http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/08/sprint-voice-data-down-in-minnesota-washington-oregon-alaska-airlines-flights-delayed/ >> >> -Eric >> >> -- >> *Eric Rosenberry* >> Sr. Infrastructure Architect // Chief Bit Plumber > > > > -- > -george william herbert > george.herb...@gmail.com -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
> > True, but, as we have discussed before, mobile users, especially in the US, > have dramatically lowered expectations of internet access from their mobile > devices vs. what they expect from a household ISP. > > We expect half the services we want to be crippled by mobile carriers because > they don't like competition. We file lawsuits when that happens on our > terrestrial connections. > > Owen > > > > Except now you have to do mediation, since class action lawsuits are now null > and void. :) I'm not convinced that's actually true, however, even if you ignore the idea of a class-action, the more effective approach is a vast fleet of small-claims cases. Corporations are generally much better prepared and resourced to deal with mediation and/or class-actions. An influx of a huge number of small-claims actions in courts all over the place, OTOH, costs very little resources on the plaintiff side while having a much larger impact on the corporation, even if the corporation prevails in every case. Owen
Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 16:47:18 -0400, Tom Limoncelli said: > Have there been studies on how much latency CGN adds to a typical > internet user? I'd also be interested in anecdotes. Should we include the time spent talking to the help desk trying to resolve double-NAT'ing issues in the latency? pgpTOlhdjZbG9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [mailop] Complicated Mailinglist Setup
- Original Message - > From: "Rich Kulawiec" > Any list-related traffic received on #2 will be forwarded to the MLM > and will be processed accordingly. Any list-related traffic generated > on #2 will be handed off to #1 for queueing and delivery. > > Is this what you were trying to accomplish? I predict he'll say yes. And I also think that if he's got one role-name in DNS for his actual mail server, and a separate role-name for his mail list service -- even though they're presently the same machine -- that this will be even easier; probably not requiring the special configuration at all. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: Typical additional latency for CGN?
On 10/8/12, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 16:47:18 -0400, Tom Limoncelli said: >> Have there been studies on how much latency CGN adds to a typical >> internet user? I'd also be interested in anecdotes. > Should we include the time spent talking to the help desk trying to resolve > double-NAT'ing issues in the latency? That's downtime to address the brokenness, or loss of availability >1% after you count time users waste trying to navigate large carriers' confusing telephone IVR mazes designed to obscure access to helpdesk, hold time, time waiting for callbacks, and finally, non-resolution of double-NAT issue without user paying extra for non-NAT IP; which is all different from network latency, and of much greater impact than a latency increase <0.1ms. -- -JH
