Re: World famous cabling disasters?

[Elmar K. Bins]

patr...@ianai.net (Patrick W. Gilmore) wrote:

> >I'm looking for a couple of pictures of the worst cabling  
> >infrastructure ever seem. One Wilshire meet me room comes to mind.
> >Anyone got any links to their photo albums, etc?
> 
> I've always considered this the worst:
> 
>

Still looks like a pasta factory...

RE: World famous cabling disasters?

[Bailey Stephen]

That's quality engineering

Great pic

Stephen Bailey - Senior Lead Systems Engineer
Network Operations - ISP & DSL
 
FUJITSU
+ Infinity House, Mallard Way, Crewe Business Park, Crewe, Cheshire, CW1
6ZQ 
( Tel: +44 (0) 870 325 3457  or Internally: 7225 3457
( Fax: +44 (0) 870 325 3622  or Internally: 7225 3622
: E-mail: stephen.bai...@uk.fujitsu.com 
" Web: http://services.fujitsu.com/ 
 

Fujitsu Services Limited, Registered in England no 96056, Registered
Office 22 Baker Street, London, W1U 3BW
 
This e-mail is only for the use of its intended recipient.  Its contents
are subject to a duty of confidence and may be privileged.  Fujitsu
Services does not guarantee that this e-mail has not been intercepted
and amended or that it is virus-free.
-Original Message-
From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net] 
Sent: 11 February 2009 03:30
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: World famous cabling disasters?

On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:16 PM, joe mcguckin wrote:

> I'm looking for a couple of pictures of the worst cabling  
> infrastructure ever seem. One Wilshire meet me room comes to mind.
> Anyone got any links to their photo albums, etc?

I've always considered this the worst:



Google shows lots of pictures, such as .

-- 
TTFN,
patrick

Call for data: IPv6 enabled service logfiles for analysis

[George Michaelson]

Call for data: IPv6 enabled service logfile analysis

APNIC is seeking operators of high-traffic webhosts, and other public  
facing services who can provide logfiles for their IPv6 enabled  
instances. Our intention is to analyse these for the distribution of  
IPv4, and the various sub-classes of IPv6 (native, tunnelled, Teredo,  
6to4).


APNIC will of course respect client privacy and sign an NDA, only  
abstracted data outcomes would be presented from any participant. -All  
participants would be acknowledged for their support in any  
presentations.


While our preference is for access to raw logs, there may be people  
out there who cannot share this due to contractual or other  
restrictions. If you are willing to filter data according to our  
example Perlcode, we'd be happy to receive abstracted data if  
neccessary. Our tools assume the apache 'combined' log format, or  
things which can be simply converted to a close analogue.


If anyone is interested in participating in the data collection  
exercise, please contract resea...@apnic.net


-George

Network diagram software

[Mathias Wolkert]

I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

What do you use?

/Tias

Re: Network diagram software

[Colin Alston]

Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

Omnigrafle and Dia are all I can add to your list

Re: Network diagram software

[William Warren]

On 2/11/2009 8:06 AM, Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

What do you use?

/Tias

   

network notepad

Re: Network diagram software

[Malte von dem Hagen]

Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

What do you use?


OmniGraffle is the better Visio.

rgds,

.m

Re: Network diagram software

[Joe Provo]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 02:06:09PM +0100, Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
> 
> What do you use?

To what end? The visio or 'presentation software' straightjackets 
are common for customer-facing presentations.  I strongly advise
automated solutions for real, day to day use. 
- dot -> graphviz  (http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0210/ppt/stephen.pdf)
_ tkined
- network-weathermap.com
- ...plenty more I don't have at my fingertips on evdo.

And just use xpaint/gimp for cleaning up images from those for any
internal documentation :-)

Cheers!

Joe
-- 
 RSUC / GweepNet / Spunk / FnB / Usenix / SAGE

Re: Network diagram software

[Chris Meidinger]

On 11.02.2009, at 14:12, Malte von dem Hagen wrote:


Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
What do you use?


OmniGraffle is the better Visio.


Agree fully, I use OmniGraffle extensively and have for a long time.  
It's worth mentioning that OG can export to Visio-XML format, so you  
don't lock yourself into the .graffle format forever.


Chris

Re: World famous cabling disasters?

[Steve Church]

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=on&q=india+wiring&btnG=Search+Images

There are several results for overhead outdoor wiring that just completely
boggle the mind and inspire awe.  Those pictures are my inspiration whenever
I pull cable.

Steve



On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Bailey Stephen <
stephen.bai...@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote:

> That's quality engineering
>
> Great pic
>
> Stephen Bailey - Senior Lead Systems Engineer
> Network Operations - ISP & DSL
>
> FUJITSU
> + Infinity House, Mallard Way, Crewe Business Park, Crewe, Cheshire, CW1
> 6ZQ
> ( Tel: +44 (0) 870 325 3457  or Internally: 7225 3457
> ( Fax: +44 (0) 870 325 3622  or Internally: 7225 3622
> : E-mail: stephen.bai...@uk.fujitsu.com
> " Web: http://services.fujitsu.com/
>
>
> Fujitsu Services Limited, Registered in England no 96056, Registered
> Office 22 Baker Street, London, W1U 3BW
>
> This e-mail is only for the use of its intended recipient.  Its contents
> are subject to a duty of confidence and may be privileged.  Fujitsu
> Services does not guarantee that this e-mail has not been intercepted
> and amended or that it is virus-free.
> -Original Message-
> From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net]
> Sent: 11 February 2009 03:30
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: World famous cabling disasters?
>
> On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:16 PM, joe mcguckin wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for a couple of pictures of the worst cabling
> > infrastructure ever seem. One Wilshire meet me room comes to mind.
> > Anyone got any links to their photo albums, etc?
>
> I've always considered this the worst:
>
>
>
> Google shows lots of pictures, such as  p=1836>.
>
> --
> TTFN,
> patrick
>
>
>
>

RE: World famous cabling disasters?

[Jamie Bowden]

The main telephone room in every commercial tower I've ever had the
displeasure of spending any time in was a disaster.  I love how the
circuits all use the same color wiring between the 100 pair 66 blocks
that were so covered in crud that just touching them would turn your
fingers black.

The closet(s) next to the elevator shafts on any given floor were more
of the same on a smaller scale.

It's not any particular RBOC, I've seen this same crap in Nynex, Bell
Atlantic, GTE, Bell South, and Pac Bell territory.  I have no doubt that
Southwest Bell, Ameritech and US West sucked just as badly.

You don't have to look far or go to exotic places to find this kind of
thing.  Telco 'techs' are their own special breed of people who will be
up against the wall come the day.

J

-Original Message-
From: Steve Church [mailto:na...@headcandy.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:08 AM
To: NANOG list
Subject: Re: World famous cabling disasters?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=on&q=india+wiring&btnG=Search
+Images

There are several results for overhead outdoor wiring that just
completely
boggle the mind and inspire awe.  Those pictures are my inspiration
whenever
I pull cable.

Steve



On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Bailey Stephen <
stephen.bai...@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote:

> That's quality engineering
>
> Great pic
>
> Stephen Bailey - Senior Lead Systems Engineer
> Network Operations - ISP & DSL
>
> FUJITSU
> + Infinity House, Mallard Way, Crewe Business Park, Crewe, Cheshire,
CW1
> 6ZQ
> ( Tel: +44 (0) 870 325 3457  or Internally: 7225 3457
> ( Fax: +44 (0) 870 325 3622  or Internally: 7225 3622
> : E-mail: stephen.bai...@uk.fujitsu.com
> " Web: http://services.fujitsu.com/
>
>
> Fujitsu Services Limited, Registered in England no 96056, Registered
> Office 22 Baker Street, London, W1U 3BW
>
> This e-mail is only for the use of its intended recipient.  Its
contents
> are subject to a duty of confidence and may be privileged.  Fujitsu
> Services does not guarantee that this e-mail has not been intercepted
> and amended or that it is virus-free.
> -Original Message-
> From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net]
> Sent: 11 February 2009 03:30
> To: NANOG list
> Subject: Re: World famous cabling disasters?
>
> On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:16 PM, joe mcguckin wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for a couple of pictures of the worst cabling
> > infrastructure ever seem. One Wilshire meet me room comes to mind.
> > Anyone got any links to their photo albums, etc?
>
> I've always considered this the worst:
>
>
>
> Google shows lots of pictures, such as  p=1836>.
>
> --
> TTFN,
> patrick
>
>
>
>

Re: Network diagram software

[Ross Vandegrift]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 02:06:09PM +0100, Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
> 
> What do you use?

I'd like to put a second request.  I often want to very quickly
mock-up a diagram that I'm going to use for myself or for internal
purposes.

Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?  For example, I
might say something like:

Router(rtr1) connects to vlan 100
Router(rtr2) connects to Router(rtr1) via T1
switch(sw1) connects to vlan100
switch(sw2) connects to Router(rtr2)
A few hosts connect to Switch(sw1)
A few hosts connect to Switch(sw2)

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
r...@kallisti.us

"If the fight gets hot, the songs get hotter.  If the going gets tough,
the songs get tougher."
--Woody Guthrie

Re: Network diagram software

[David Andersen]

On Feb 11, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Ross Vandegrift wrote:


I'd like to put a second request.  I often want to very quickly
mock-up a diagram that I'm going to use for myself or for internal
purposes.

Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?  For example, I
might say something like:

Router(rtr1) connects to vlan 100
Router(rtr2) connects to Router(rtr1) via T1
switch(sw1) connects to vlan100
switch(sw2) connects to Router(rtr2)
A few hosts connect to Switch(sw1)
A few hosts connect to Switch(sw2)


The aforementioned graphviz program "dot" (and friends) will do  
exactly this.


http://www.graphviz.org/

There's a command-line version and a spiffy GUI version for the mac.

It's a great way to go.  It may be unsurprising that it was an at&t  
project.


  -Dave




PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Network diagram software

[Malte von dem Hagen]

Hi,

Ross Vandegrift wrote:

Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?


yes, Omnigraffle here as well. Can be simple AND beautiful.

rgds,

.m

Re: Network diagram software

[Brad Fleming]

On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Malte von dem Hagen wrote:


Hi,

Ross Vandegrift wrote:

Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?


yes, Omnigraffle here as well. Can be simple AND beautiful.

rgds,

.m


Agreed. We use it for all our network and service diagrams.. probably  
because we're all Mac users! :D

--
Brad Fleming
Kansas Research and Education Network

Re: Network diagram software

[Mathias Wolkert]

Thanks all for your input.
One thing that hits me is how different networks are documented.
Are there any best practice communicated (RFC/IETF)?

I like the idea of having one physical version showing cables and devices
(CDP/EDP/LLDP view pretty much) and one logical view showing IP subnets.
Many times I found *documented* networks where this is all combined making
it very unclear.
The hard part is to visually show what VLANs are active in each switch.

Thoughts?

/Tias

Re: Network diagram software

[Bill Woodcock]

> OmniGraffle is the better Visio.

Me three.  We all use OmniGraffle.  And Adobe Illustrator to create new 
objects.

-Bill

RE: Network diagram software

[Stephens, Josh]

You can also use Lan Surveyor from us here @SolarWinds. There's a light
version called "Lan Surveyor Express" that discovers the network (layer
2 and 3) and then draws the topology for you in Visio.

You can of course buy it from SolarWinds.Com but there's also a special
link that we use to give it away to partners. Feel free to download to
download and use that one (free):

http://www.solarwinds.com/register/registrationform.aspx?Program=583&c=7
015000E50d

Josh

-Original Message-
From: Brad Fleming [mailto:bdflem...@kanren.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:06 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Network diagram software

On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Malte von dem Hagen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Ross Vandegrift wrote:
>> Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
>> and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?
>
> yes, Omnigraffle here as well. Can be simple AND beautiful.
>
> rgds,
>
> .m
>
>
Agreed. We use it for all our network and service diagrams.. probably  
because we're all Mac users! :D
--
Brad Fleming
Kansas Research and Education Network

Re: Network diagram software

[Min]

yWorks http://www.yworks.com/en/index.html worth a try, its yEd is free.

m

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Malte von dem Hagen  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Ross Vandegrift wrote:
>>
>> Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
>> and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?
>
> yes, Omnigraffle here as well. Can be simple AND beautiful.
>
> rgds,
>
> .m
>
>

Re: Network diagram software

[chuck goolsbee]

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 07:27:35 -0800 (PST), Bill Woodcock wrote:
> > OmniGraffle is the better Visio.
> 
> Me three.  We all use OmniGraffle.  And Adobe Illustrator to create new 
> objects.

Me four, except I'm too lazy to create new objects and just slurp them from 
Graffletopia:


--chuck

Re: Network diagram software

[Adam Fields]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 07:27:35AM -0800, Bill Woodcock wrote:
> > OmniGraffle is the better Visio.
> 
> Me three.  We all use OmniGraffle.  And Adobe Illustrator to create new 
> objects.

I use Omnigraffle all the time. Check out graffletopia for new
stencils:

http://www.graffletopia.com/

(It's also available in the integrated search box in Omnigraffle.)

Also of note - OmniGraffle can import OmniOutliner files (among some
other things) and make a diagram out of the tree.

-- 
- Adam

** Expert Technical Project and Business Management
 System Performance Analysis and Architecture
** [ http://www.adamfields.com ]

[ http://workstuff.tumblr.com ] ... Technology Blog
[ http://www.aquick.org/blog ]  Personal Blog
[ http://www.adamfields.com/resume.html ].. Experience
[ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fields ] ... Photos
[ http://www.twitter.com/fields ].. Twitter
[ http://www.morningside-analytics.com ] .. Latest Venture
[ http://www.confabb.com ]  Founder

RE: Network diagram software

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ross Vandegrift [mailto:r...@kallisti.us]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:42 AM
> To: Mathias Wolkert
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Network diagram software
> 
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 02:06:09PM +0100, Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> > I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> > Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> > I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
> >
> > What do you use?
> 
> I'd like to put a second request.  I often want to very quickly
> mock-up a diagram that I'm going to use for myself or for internal
> purposes.
> 
> Is there any application that takes some kind of *simple* description
> and produces a (possibly not so beautiful) picture?  For example, I
> might say something like:
> 
>   Router(rtr1) connects to vlan 100
>   Router(rtr2) connects to Router(rtr1) via T1
>   switch(sw1) connects to vlan100
>   switch(sw2) connects to Router(rtr2)
>   A few hosts connect to Switch(sw1)
>   A few hosts connect to Switch(sw2)
> 

Isn't there something comparable, at the virtual level, that draws pictures
from RPSL descriptions?

XKL

[Sutterfield, Brian]

Does anyone have any experience using the DXM from XKL for DWDM
deployments? 

 

Any feedback is appreciated.  

 

Thanks,

Brian

Re: XKL

[isabel dias]

what do you mean?


--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Sutterfield, Brian  wrote:

> From: Sutterfield, Brian 
> Subject: XKL
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 5:33 PM
> Does anyone have any experience using the DXM from XKL for
> DWDM
> deployments? 
> 
>  
> 
> Any feedback is appreciated.  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian


  

Re: Network diagram software

[Brian Feeny]

OmniGraffle all the way

On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Malte von dem Hagen wrote:


Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
What do you use?


OmniGraffle is the better Visio.

rgds,

.m

RE: XKL

[isabel dias]

What do you mean?

--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Robert D. Scott  wrote:

> From: Robert D. Scott 
> Subject: RE: XKL
> To: isabeldi...@yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:11 PM
> http://www.xkl.com/
> 
> Robert D. Scott rob...@ufl.edu
> Senior Network Engineer 352-273-0113 Phone
> CNS - Network Services  352-392-2061 CNS
> Receptionist
> University of Florida   352-392-9440 FAX
> Florida Lambda Rail 352-294-3571 FLR NOC
> Gainesville, FL  32611  321-663-0421 Cell
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: isabel dias [mailto:isabeldi...@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:05 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org; Sutterfield, Brian
> Subject: Re: XKL
> 
> what do you mean?
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Sutterfield, Brian
>  wrote:
> 
> > From: Sutterfield, Brian
> 
> > Subject: XKL
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 5:33 PM
> > Does anyone have any experience using the DXM from XKL
> for
> > DWDM
> > deployments? 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Any feedback is appreciated.  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Brian


  

RE: Networking performance

[Justin Krejci]

STG is a very simple windows real time snmp grapher
http://leonidvm.chat.ru/

It is geared at interface throughput but can easily be used for things like
CPU utilization, firewall connection counts, temperature, etc.

-Original Message-
From: Joel Jaeggli [mailto:joe...@bogus.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:59 PM
To: Deric Kwok
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Networking performance

Deric Kwok wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I would like to ask your professional experience about switch throughput
> 
> I have Gig Switchs eg: H P3400 /3500, cisco c4 948../ dlink
> In their spec, they said that it can handles Gig
> So far, I couldn't see their ports are used up over 200M in mrtg graph
> when I try to transfer 3G size files to files between computers

So, first off there's the question of sample interval vs the actaul time
the transfer takes... I'd use an instrument other than mrtg to measure
the spead of the transfer for example bytes transfer/wall clock time.

Second, you're benchmarking a bunch of components other than the
network, like your disks for example, which are likely slower than the
125MB/s you're trying to measure... Switch to ttcp or iperf for your
throughput measurement and you'll probably get a lot closer to measuring
what you're in fact trying to measure.

> ls there any limitation in those switchs?
> or I have to do configuration eg: put it full duplex instead of auto

autonegotiation on gigabit interfaces should almost always produce the
desired result.

> Thank you for your help
> 

RE: Network diagram software

[Ray Burkholder]

> 
> > Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> >> I'd like to know what software people are using to document
> networks.
> >> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> >> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
> >> What do you use?
> >
> > OmniGraffle is the better Visio.
> 

OmniGraffle appears to be Mac only.  Anything for us Mac deficient people?


-- 
Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at 
http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean.

Re: Network diagram software

[Amit Kaushal]

Concept Draw is compatible with Windows and Mac.  UI is similar to  
Visio.


http://www.conceptdraw.com/en/





On Feb 11, 2009, at 9:19 AM, Ray Burkholder wrote:




Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document

networks.

Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
What do you use?


OmniGraffle is the better Visio.




OmniGraffle appears to be Mac only.  Anything for us Mac deficient  
people?



--
Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at
http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean.

Re: XKL

[bmanning]

you mean these guys?  http://inwap.com/pdp10/td-1b.html

--bill (who is almost certainly experiencing Charles Bonet Syndrome)



On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:33:48AM -0600, Sutterfield, Brian wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience using the DXM from XKL for DWDM
> deployments? 
> 
>  
> 
> Any feedback is appreciated.  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian
> 

Re: Network diagram software

[Jason Dearborn]

I use the free basic version of http://www.gliffy.com for mock-ups.
It doesn't go as deep as OmniGraffle or Visio, but it's enough to
illustrate concepts to NOC guys or executives.

J-series and Cisco ME3400 L2 Issues

[Brad Fleming]

Hello all!

Recently, KanREN has begun purchasing Ethernet circuits from a new  
provider who uses a Cisco ME3400 for CPE to provide the link to us. We  
use primarly Juniper J-2320 and J-4350 routers for our site equipment  
(running JunOS 9.3 Enhanced Services).


We've seen a problem getting Layer2 to function correctly with various  
speed and duplex settings. We tried every combo of hardcoded settings  
on both sides but simply couldn't resolve some L2 errors and interface  
resets. In the end, we found a stable setup with the J-series set to  
auto/auto and the ME3400 set to 100/full.


Has anyone else seen similar problem using either the J-series or an  
ME3400? If so, did you ever find a complete resolution (or explanation)?


Thanks for any insight!
--
Brad Fleming
Network Engineer
Kansas Research and Education Network
Office:785-856-9800 x.222
Moblie:  785-865-7231
NOC: 866-984-3662

Re: Network diagram software

[Ken A]

Ray Burkholder wrote:

Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document

networks.

Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
What do you use?

OmniGraffle is the better Visio.


OmniGraffle appears to be Mac only.  Anything for us Mac deficient people?




Dia is simple, easy to use, general purpose
http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/

Re: Network diagram software

[John Osmon]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 04:11:38PM +0100, Mathias Wolkert wrote:
[...]
> I like the idea of having one physical version showing cables and devices
> (CDP/EDP/LLDP view pretty much) and one logical view showing IP subnets.
> Many times I found *documented* networks where this is all combined making
> it very unclear.
> The hard part is to visually show what VLANs are active in each switch.
> 
> Thoughts?

You're hitting the nail on the head.  Most people worry about the *tool*
being used, and neglect the information.

Most networks need at least two diagrams:
  - a logical map showing network boundaries/collision domains/etc.
(This is where VLANs get documented)
  - a physical map showing *how* things are connected.
(This is where equipment and their interconnects are documented)

Once you get that into your head, the best tool is the one that most
people can use.  I've been using PowerPoint for a couple of years and
haven't run into anyone that says, "I can't read that." 

Re: Network diagram software

[Kevin Day]

On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Mathias Wolkert wrote:


I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

What do you use?

/Tias


Two packages that I'm looking at right now for a project.


RackMonkey http://flux.org.uk/projects/rackmonkey/

Simple, AJAX-ified, looks very easy to use for non-nerds. Keeps track  
of rack space allocations, devices, even does some neat tricks using  
Dell service tags to let you see warranty/config info.



RackTables http://racktables.org/

More advanced, but quite a bit more complex. Keeps track of devices,  
how they're connected, IP allocations, vlans, "virtual servers", etc.  
Some tools to let you automatically populate the database.



Neither appear to do power management, or much in the way of physical  
cable routing. Power is becoming a big thing for everyone - a tool  
that let us track idle/average/max power loads per device, and play  
'what-if' with circuit/rack placement would make my life a lot easier.


Like others posted, one of the big problems is that you can't put  
everything into one visualization. For us, we need physical/L1 (rack  
space planning, power planning, cable routing, asset tracking, etc),  
network/L2 (switches, vlans, mac addresses), IP/L3 (IP management,  
subnets, virtual servers, etc), Application/L4+ (what apps/services  
run on which servers, domain names, etc)


I'm not aware of any one tool that does all of that, but there seems  
to be a lot of appeal in tying all those things together.


-- Kevin

RE: Network diagram software

[Howard C. Berkowitz]

> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin Day [mailto:toa...@dragondata.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:16 PM
> To: Mathias Wolkert
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Network diagram software
> 
> 
> On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> > Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> > I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
> >
> > What do you use?
> >
> > /Tias
> 
> Two packages that I'm looking at right now for a project.
> 
> 
> RackMonkey http://flux.org.uk/projects/rackmonkey/
> 
> Simple, AJAX-ified, looks very easy to use for non-nerds. Keeps track
> of rack space allocations, devices, even does some neat tricks using
> Dell service tags to let you see warranty/config info.
> 

You remind me of  a design discussion, well-lubricated with beer, in which
my team was trying, in spite of top management, to design great carrier
routers. At one point, partially for RFC4098 benchmarking, we wanted to put
a GPS card into some prototypes, originally as a time reference.

We started thinking what else we could do with it, assuming we could get an
enhanced-accuracy GPS (DGPS/WAAS) signal into the machine room. Physical
inventory became a possibility. Somewhere, however, it started moving into
the silly, including oscillation indicating earthquakes, and then graceful
arcs as the rack fell over.

Re: Network diagram software

[Marshall Eubanks]

On Feb 11, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:





-Original Message-
From: Kevin Day [mailto:toa...@dragondata.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:16 PM
To: Mathias Wolkert
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Network diagram software


On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Mathias Wolkert wrote:

I'd like to know what software people are using to document  
networks.

Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

What do you use?

/Tias


Two packages that I'm looking at right now for a project.


RackMonkey http://flux.org.uk/projects/rackmonkey/

Simple, AJAX-ified, looks very easy to use for non-nerds. Keeps track
of rack space allocations, devices, even does some neat tricks using
Dell service tags to let you see warranty/config info.



You remind me of  a design discussion, well-lubricated with beer, in  
which
my team was trying, in spite of top management, to design great  
carrier
routers. At one point, partially for RFC4098 benchmarking, we wanted  
to put

a GPS card into some prototypes, originally as a time reference.

We started thinking what else we could do with it, assuming we could  
get an
enhanced-accuracy GPS (DGPS/WAAS) signal into the machine room.  
Physical
inventory became a possibility. Somewhere, however, it started  
moving into
the silly, including oscillation indicating earthquakes, and then  
graceful

arcs as the rack fell over.




Maybe not so silly :

http://gizmodo.com/383605/laptop-accelerometers-used-to-study-earthquakes-desk-bumping

Regards
Marshall

Re: Network diagram software

[seph]

Colin Alston  writes:

> Mathias Wolkert wrote:
>> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
>> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
>> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
>
> Omnigrafle and Dia are all I can add to your list

I didn't see it mentioned in the thread, but I've ditched Dia for
Inkscape. I find it a bit prettier. Of course, I mostly also just use
omnigraffle.

seph

Re: Network diagram software

[Craig Holland]

Mathias Wolkert wrote:

>>> OmniGraffle is the better Visio.

...except I've not found any good networking/systems stencils for
omnigraffle (even on graffletopia).  I tried to import the visio ones in 5.0
but that didn't work too well.  Someone out there have something for
omnigraffle that rivals the visio network stencils?

Thanks,
craig

Re: XKL

[Azher Mughal]

We used DXM10 at Caltech to connect the switches at colo in downtown
LA during supercomputing 2008.

Configuration is pretty straight forward and box is well stable. No
errors / link flaps seen on the ports. Few of the ports were LR for
7606 and some were SR for servers connecting Myricom 10GE NICs.

-Azher

RE: XKL- after a brainstorming session ?

[isabel dias]

Rob, Ok. 

Do you want to share your experience? No point of taking this offline! 

Are you looking at market share, attributes and functionality on these new 
appliances?

In this competitive world everyone has a say to the well-known Cisco and 
Juniper product set.  

What is the ASIC board type across all products?   I can't see any 40Gig card 
support or any new OS features like most have available on their roadmap. 


http://www.geant2.net/upload/pdf/GN2-07-154v7-Deliverable_DJ4_2_2_Feasibility_study_40_100Gbps_optical_trans_and_advanced_Eth.pdf


.//ID


and yes, looking for a job! 





--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Robert D. Scott  wrote:

> From: Robert D. Scott 
> Subject: RE: XKL
> To: isabeldi...@yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:16 PM
> My sent items has the URL in it. ???
> 
> http://www.xkl.com/
> 
> Robert D. Scott rob...@ufl.edu
> Senior Network Engineer 352-273-0113 Phone
> CNS - Network Services  352-392-2061 CNS
> Receptionist
> University of Florida   352-392-9440 FAX
> Florida Lambda Rail 352-294-3571 FLR NOC
> Gainesville, FL  32611  321-663-0421 Cell
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: isabel dias [mailto:isabeldi...@yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:15 PM
> To: Robert D. Scott
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: XKL
> 
> 
> What do you mean?
> 
> --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Robert D. Scott 
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Robert D. Scott 
> > Subject: RE: XKL
> > To: isabeldi...@yahoo.com
> > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:11 PM
> > http://www.xkl.com/
> > 
> > Robert D. Scott rob...@ufl.edu
> > Senior Network Engineer 352-273-0113 Phone
> > CNS - Network Services  352-392-2061 CNS
> > Receptionist
> > University of Florida   352-392-9440 FAX
> > Florida Lambda Rail 352-294-3571 FLR NOC
> > Gainesville, FL  32611  321-663-0421 Cell
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: isabel dias [mailto:isabeldi...@yahoo.com] 
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:05 PM
> > To: nanog@nanog.org; Sutterfield, Brian
> > Subject: Re: XKL
> > 
> > what do you mean?
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Sutterfield, Brian
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Sutterfield, Brian
> > 
> > > Subject: XKL
> > > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 5:33 PM
> > > Does anyone have any experience using the DXM
> from XKL
> > for
> > > DWDM
> > > deployments? 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Any feedback is appreciated.  
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Brian


  

Re: Network diagram software

[Malte von dem Hagen]

Am 11.02.2009 21:50 Uhr, Craig Holland schrieb:
> Mathias Wolkert wrote:

Did he?

 OmniGraffle is the better Visio.
> 
> ...except I've not found any good networking/systems stencils for
> omnigraffle (even on graffletopia).  I tried to import the visio ones in 5.0
> but that didn't work too well.  Someone out there have something for
> omnigraffle that rivals the visio network stencils?

Depends on the target audience, but for documentation purposes, there is
obviously no need for shiny, eyecandy stencils but only for
distinguishable figures. Use circles for routers, rectangles for
switches and so on. There are enough geometric stencils available.

Regards,

.m



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Re: Network diagram software

[Michael Hallgren]

Le mercredi 11 février 2009 à 23:34 +0100, Malte von dem Hagen a écrit :
> 
> Am 11.02.2009 21:50 Uhr, Craig Holland schrieb:
> > Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> 
> Did he?
> 
>  OmniGraffle is the better Visio.
> > 
> > ...except I've not found any good networking/systems stencils for
> > omnigraffle (even on graffletopia).  I tried to import the visio ones in 5.0
> > but that didn't work too well.  Someone out there have something for
> > omnigraffle that rivals the visio network stencils?
> 
> Depends on the target audience, but for documentation purposes, there is
> obviously no need for shiny, eyecandy stencils but only for
> distinguishable figures. Use circles for routers, rectangles for
> switches and so on. There are enough geometric stencils available.

Or ;)... Unless that you need runtime input, parse your configuration
file repository, and build quite nice looking documents using TeX (plus,
if you fancy nice graphics, pstricks, metapost, or pgf/TiKz). That's
easy with a small few lines of perl (or your parsing language of
choice). If you need run-time data, simply script it into the above
mentioned "engine." The engineering way of lazily producing "marketing 
visual quality" documents... IMHO :)

Cheers,

mh
 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> .m
> 
-- 
michael hallgren, mh2198-ripe


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Re: Network diagram software

[Michael Hallgren]

Le mercredi 11 février 2009 à 23:51 +0100, Michael Hallgren a écrit :
> Le mercredi 11 février 2009 à 23:34 +0100, Malte von dem Hagen a écrit :
> > 
> > Am 11.02.2009 21:50 Uhr, Craig Holland schrieb:
> > > Mathias Wolkert wrote:
> > 
> > Did he?
> > 
> >  OmniGraffle is the better Visio.
> > > 
> > > ...except I've not found any good networking/systems stencils for
> > > omnigraffle (even on graffletopia).  I tried to import the visio ones in 
> > > 5.0
> > > but that didn't work too well.  Someone out there have something for
> > > omnigraffle that rivals the visio network stencils?
> > 
> > Depends on the target audience, but for documentation purposes, there is
> > obviously no need for shiny, eyecandy stencils but only for
> > distinguishable figures. Use circles for routers, rectangles for
> > switches and so on. There are enough geometric stencils available.
> 
> Or ;)... Unless that you need runtime input, parse your configuration
> file repository, and build quite nice looking documents using TeX (plus,
> if you fancy nice graphics, pstricks, metapost, or pgf/TiKz). That's
> easy with a small few lines of perl (or your parsing language of
> choice). If you need run-time data, simply script it into the above
> mentioned "engine." The engineering way of lazily producing "marketing 
> visual quality" documents... IMHO :)

If you're not used to this kind of document authoring, I believe TiKz is
your best/first friend.

mh

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> mh
>  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > .m
> > 
-- 
michael hallgren, mh2198-ripe


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Re: Network diagram software

[Malte von dem Hagen]

Hej,

Am 11.02.2009 19:13 Uhr, John Osmon schrieb:
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 04:11:38PM +0100, Mathias Wolkert wrote:
>> I like the idea of having one physical version showing cables and devices
>> (CDP/EDP/LLDP view pretty much) and one logical view showing IP subnets.
>> Many times I found *documented* networks where this is all combined making
>> it very unclear.
>> The hard part is to visually show what VLANs are active in each switch.

> Most networks need at least two diagrams:
>   - a logical map showing network boundaries/collision domains/etc.
> (This is where VLANs get documented)
>   - a physical map showing *how* things are connected.
> (This is where equipment and their interconnects are documented)

the actual needs strongly depend on the design of the network.

If your network is segemented by many routers, it may even be sufficient
to do a dozen or so traceroutes and parse the results ;-)

If you run flat, switched networks with hundreds of switches but only
few routers and possibly extreme heterogeneous subnetting in a
multi-vendor environment, you do not get very far by parsing configs or
"autodiscovering" the net.

It becomes even more interesting if you run active layer 1 equipment
like DWDM boxes or radio connections :-)

Personally, I think most important is a clean documentation of Layers 1
and 2 AND the corresponding contact data for 3rd party
sites/lines/equipment. These are the things you cannot get easily out of
your network, and when experiencing failure on that level, you'll be
happy to have this information on one single map.

Always remember: Layer 3 is easy. Routing is easy. You have a lot of
tools and deterministic protocols. Layers 1/2 are the wild jungle where
you may see strange things happen and are partly blind and constrained.

Combining the maps for Layers 1 and 2, by the way, is possible. Use
colours, line types, and again geometric figures.

Regards,

.m



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Re: Network diagram software

[jay]

Quoting Mathias Wolkert :


I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

What do you use?

/Tias



I know what you mean about the straight jacket, Visio used to almost  
drive me to the sanitarium. One day I bit the bullet and RTFM (and a  
book) and now I don't find it so frustrating ;)


I have in the past used SmartDraw (http://www.smartdraw.com), it's  
commercial, but IMHO resonably priced, and I found it quick and easy  
to whip up network diagrams with it. It's also pretty good at flow  
charts.


Just my $0.05

Re: Network diagram software

[Gary E. Miller]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Yo All!

Quoting Mathias Wolkert :

> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Draw program in Open Office.
It has smart connectors like Vizio. It runs on WinXX, OS X, Linux, etc.,
and it is free.  It uses SVG so you can even generate files with any
language you are handy with.  The main problem is the very few templates.

RGDS
GARY
- ---
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
g...@rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFJk12EBmnRqz71OvMRAop5AJ0XvgNU5a/kRESzD9FsW8nJKVIGWQCffDaC
5rxGsAerbq6w4tWSJXr208w=
=+W9a
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Cogent Question - Increments Question

[Paul Stewart]

Hi there...



First off, I want to make it very clear ... I'm NOT looking for a Cogent
sales person to call nor am I actually looking for pricing itself.



What I'm looking for feedback on is from existing customers and whether
or not Cogent sold you the option to step up in 10 meg increments from
10 up to 100 on a FE.



Back when we dealt with them as a service provider, the answer was "100
or nothing" but I'm working with a couple of clients on a consulting
basis who only need 10 or 20 meg bandwidth requirements and are hung up
on using Cogent.  On their pricing it shows 10 meg increments - is their
enterprise customers different from their service provider customers on
product offering?  I've only dealt with them on the service provider
front and found this information so far confusing



Just looking for feedback on increments itself... thank you.



Paul Stewart








"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy 
this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or 
disclosing same. Thank you."

Re: Network diagram software

[Chris Garcia]

 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned NetBrain.  It can automatically (via 
discovery, or device configs) create Network diagrams that can be exported to 
Visio.  
 
http://www.netbraintech.com/web_08/solutions/na.php
 
Chris


Quoting Mathias Wolkert :

> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.

RE: Cogent Question - Increments Question

[Paul Stewart]

Just wanted to say thanks - I already got 5+ replies offline stating
that all these folks have ever been offered was either 10 or 100 on FE
basis...

Cheers,

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
Sent: February 11, 2009 6:30 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Cogent Question - Increments Question

Hi there...



First off, I want to make it very clear ... I'm NOT looking for a Cogent
sales person to call nor am I actually looking for pricing itself.



What I'm looking for feedback on is from existing customers and whether
or not Cogent sold you the option to step up in 10 meg increments from
10 up to 100 on a FE.



Back when we dealt with them as a service provider, the answer was "100
or nothing" but I'm working with a couple of clients on a consulting
basis who only need 10 or 20 meg bandwidth requirements and are hung up
on using Cogent.  On their pricing it shows 10 meg increments - is their
enterprise customers different from their service provider customers on
product offering?  I've only dealt with them on the service provider
front and found this information so far confusing



Just looking for feedback on increments itself... thank you.



Paul Stewart









"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
you."






"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy 
this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or 
disclosing same. Thank you."

RE: Cogent Question - Increments Question

[Paul Stewart]

Since everyone is relying offline and I believe in keeping lists updated
after asking a question;)

It seems to depend on who you talk to basically - long and short I've
heard from numerous folks that were only offered 10 or 100 on FE but I
have also heard from many people that more recently were offered 10 meg
incremements...

Again, appreciate all the input - got a tonne of replies...

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
Sent: February 11, 2009 6:49 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: RE: Cogent Question - Increments Question

Just wanted to say thanks - I already got 5+ replies offline stating
that all these folks have ever been offered was either 10 or 100 on FE
basis...

Cheers,

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
Sent: February 11, 2009 6:30 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Cogent Question - Increments Question

Hi there...



First off, I want to make it very clear ... I'm NOT looking for a Cogent
sales person to call nor am I actually looking for pricing itself.



What I'm looking for feedback on is from existing customers and whether
or not Cogent sold you the option to step up in 10 meg increments from
10 up to 100 on a FE.



Back when we dealt with them as a service provider, the answer was "100
or nothing" but I'm working with a couple of clients on a consulting
basis who only need 10 or 20 meg bandwidth requirements and are hung up
on using Cogent.  On their pricing it shows 10 meg increments - is their
enterprise customers different from their service provider customers on
product offering?  I've only dealt with them on the service provider
front and found this information so far confusing



Just looking for feedback on increments itself... thank you.



Paul Stewart









"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
you."







"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
you."







"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy 
this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or 
disclosing same. Thank you."

Re: Cogent Question - Increments Question

[Jeffrey Lyon]

Paul,

With all due respect i'm not sure Cogent's sales practices are on
topic for this list. Perhaps ask the question but most subscribers
here, i'd assume, are not incredibly interested in whether or not they
can buy a fractional FE from Cogent.

My two cents.

Best regards, Jeff

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
> Since everyone is relying offline and I believe in keeping lists updated
> after asking a question;)
>
> It seems to depend on who you talk to basically - long and short I've
> heard from numerous folks that were only offered 10 or 100 on FE but I
> have also heard from many people that more recently were offered 10 meg
> incremements...
>
> Again, appreciate all the input - got a tonne of replies...
>
> Paul
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
> Sent: February 11, 2009 6:49 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: Cogent Question - Increments Question
>
> Just wanted to say thanks - I already got 5+ replies offline stating
> that all these folks have ever been offered was either 10 or 100 on FE
> basis...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
> Sent: February 11, 2009 6:30 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Cogent Question - Increments Question
>
> Hi there...
>
>
>
> First off, I want to make it very clear ... I'm NOT looking for a Cogent
> sales person to call nor am I actually looking for pricing itself.
>
>
>
> What I'm looking for feedback on is from existing customers and whether
> or not Cogent sold you the option to step up in 10 meg increments from
> 10 up to 100 on a FE.
>
>
>
> Back when we dealt with them as a service provider, the answer was "100
> or nothing" but I'm working with a couple of clients on a consulting
> basis who only need 10 or 20 meg bandwidth requirements and are hung up
> on using Cogent.  On their pricing it shows 10 meg increments - is their
> enterprise customers different from their service provider customers on
> product offering?  I've only dealt with them on the service provider
> front and found this information so far confusing
>
>
>
> Just looking for feedback on increments itself... thank you.
>
>
>
> Paul Stewart
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
> to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
> material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
> immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
> attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
> you."
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
> to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
> material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
> immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
> attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
> you."
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to 
> which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. 
> If you received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then 
> destroy this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, 
> distributing or disclosing same. Thank you."
>
>



-- 
Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team
jeffrey.l...@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net
Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc.

Look for us at HostingCon 2009 in Washington, DC on August 10th - 12th
at Booth #401.

RE: Cogent Question - Increments Question

[Paul Stewart]

Thank you - and that's fair enough.  With more related topics in the
past I've had folks blast me for not sharing back to the list regarding
offline information.  In this case, in hindsight I share your opinion
and that would explain why all replies were offline.

Apologies to the list and thank you Jeff for taking the time to
respectively share your insight

Paul


-Original Message-
From: jeffrey.l...@gmail.com [mailto:jeffrey.l...@gmail.com] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Lyon
Sent: February 11, 2009 7:14 PM
To: Paul Stewart
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Cogent Question - Increments Question

Paul,

With all due respect i'm not sure Cogent's sales practices are on
topic for this list. Perhaps ask the question but most subscribers
here, i'd assume, are not incredibly interested in whether or not they
can buy a fractional FE from Cogent.

My two cents.

Best regards, Jeff

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Paul Stewart
 wrote:
> Since everyone is relying offline and I believe in keeping lists
updated
> after asking a question;)
>
> It seems to depend on who you talk to basically - long and short I've
> heard from numerous folks that were only offered 10 or 100 on FE but I
> have also heard from many people that more recently were offered 10
meg
> incremements...
>
> Again, appreciate all the input - got a tonne of replies...
>
> Paul
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
> Sent: February 11, 2009 6:49 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: RE: Cogent Question - Increments Question
>
> Just wanted to say thanks - I already got 5+ replies offline stating
> that all these folks have ever been offered was either 10 or 100 on FE
> basis...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Stewart [mailto:pstew...@nexicomgroup.net]
> Sent: February 11, 2009 6:30 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Cogent Question - Increments Question
>
> Hi there...
>
>
>
> First off, I want to make it very clear ... I'm NOT looking for a
Cogent
> sales person to call nor am I actually looking for pricing itself.
>
>
>
> What I'm looking for feedback on is from existing customers and
whether
> or not Cogent sold you the option to step up in 10 meg increments from
> 10 up to 100 on a FE.
>
>
>
> Back when we dealt with them as a service provider, the answer was
"100
> or nothing" but I'm working with a couple of clients on a consulting
> basis who only need 10 or 20 meg bandwidth requirements and are hung
up
> on using Cogent.  On their pricing it shows 10 meg increments - is
their
> enterprise customers different from their service provider customers
on
> product offering?  I've only dealt with them on the service provider
> front and found this information so far confusing
>
>
>
> Just looking for feedback on increments itself... thank you.
>
>
>
> Paul Stewart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
>
> "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
> to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
> material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
> immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
> attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
> you."
>
>
>
>
>

> 
>
> "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
> to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
> material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
> immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
> attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
> you."
>
>
>
>
>
>


>
> "The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity
to which it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged
material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender
immediately and then destroy this transmission, including all
attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. Thank
you."
>
>



--
Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team
jeffrey.l...@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net
Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc.

Look for us at HostingCon 2009 in Washington, DC on August 10th - 12th
at Booth #401.






"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and contains confidential and/or privileged material. If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and then destroy 
this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or 
disclosing same. Thank you."

Re: Network diagram software

[Crist Clark]

>>> On 2/11/2009 at 3:15 PM,  wrote:
> Quoting Mathias Wolkert :
> 
>> I'd like to know what software people are using to document networks.
>> Visio is obvious but feels like a straight jacket to me.
>> I liked netviz but it seems owned by CA and unsupported nowadays.
>>
>> What do you use?
>>
>> /Tias
>>
> 
> I know what you mean about the straight jacket, Visio used to almost  
> drive me to the sanitarium. One day I bit the bullet and RTFM (and a  
> book) and now I don't find it so frustrating ;)
> 
> I have in the past used SmartDraw (http://www.smartdraw.com), it's  
> commercial, but IMHO resonably priced, and I found it quick and easy  
> to whip up network diagrams with it. It's also pretty good at flow  
> charts.

Don't touch smartdraw. Spammers.

Re: J-series and Cisco ME3400 L2 Issues

[Giuliano (UOL)]

Brad,

We never had the problem, but, today, Juniper release the 9.4 version of 
Junos software.


Maybe you can check the release notes to see if you find something 
related to.


http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/en_US/junos9.4/information-products/topic-collections/release-notes/9.4/noframes-collapsedTOC.html


Att,



Hello all!

Recently, KanREN has begun purchasing Ethernet circuits from a new 
provider who uses a Cisco ME3400 for CPE to provide the link to us. We 
use primarly Juniper J-2320 and J-4350 routers for our site equipment 
(running JunOS 9.3 Enhanced Services).


We've seen a problem getting Layer2 to function correctly with various 
speed and duplex settings. We tried every combo of hardcoded settings on 
both sides but simply couldn't resolve some L2 errors and interface 
resets. In the end, we found a stable setup with the J-series set to 
auto/auto and the ME3400 set to 100/full.


Has anyone else seen similar problem using either the J-series or an 
ME3400? If so, did you ever find a complete resolution (or explanation)?


Thanks for any insight!
--
Brad Fleming
Network Engineer
Kansas Research and Education Network
Office:785-856-9800 x.222
Moblie:  785-865-7231
NOC: 866-984-3662

Re: World famous cabling disasters?

[Derek Morton]

Here's some from the University I formerly worked for.. All this is out of
commission now, but it wasn't until fairly recently.

http://flickr.com/photos/dcmorton/sets/72157604766108671/

-Derek

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:16 PM, joe mcguckin  wrote:

> I'm looking for a couple of pictures of the worst cabling infrastructure
> ever seem. One Wilshire meet me room comes to mind.
> Anyone got any links to their photo albums, etc?
>
>
> Joe McGuckin
> ViaNet Communications
>
> j...@via.net
> 650-207-0372 cell
> 650-213-1302 office
> 650-969-2124 fax
>
>
>
>
>


-- 

#11908 Premature optimization is the root of all evil.