Re: Synaptics/Chrome two-finger scrolling behaviour

2016-06-19 Thread Henrik Friedrichsen
On Mon, Jun 06, 2016 at 02:17:00PM +0200, Henrik Friedrichsen wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I'm not sure, but something seems to have changed two-finger-scrolling
> on Synaptics touchpads in the latest snapshots.
> 
> My snapshot is from June 2nd. The following is what happens:
> 
> In Chromium, if I click somewhere and subsequently scroll the website
> using two-finger-scrolling, it scrolls more units (e.g. to the
> top/bottom of the page) and sometimes even in reverse. I can't quite
> extract the pattern, yet.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this? Is this Xenocara or Chromium related?
> 

FYI: There is a relevant bugreport for this. A fix (reverted commit) is
in Chrome v53.

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=609748



Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Sjöholm Per-Olov
Hi

Does anyone know if there exist any list of recommendations about how to make
an SSD disk to live as long as possible when using it for firewall purpose on
OpenBSD?  It seems that OpenBSD lack some features related to SSDs like TRIM.
SSDs are getting more popular, but I cannot find much info in the OpenBSD FAQ
or on misc. Also, it is not that easy to get a good understanding of how long
an average good SSD will really live with average disk writes from the specs.
And there a more than one way to give specs about this where DWPD is one and
MTBF is another.

Therefor I at least want to do the easy steps to make it long lived...

Softdep is probably a good thing. What else? And I think of rewriting the
logging handling with dates in /var/log to avoid a move of all logs every day.
Or is that waste of time? Any special handling/settings for swap and /tmp?



Input very much appreciated



Tnx in advance

/Peo
Current FW system: OpenBSD 5.9 stable, Mainboard: NF9HG-2930, Nics: i211AT,
CPU: N2930, Disk: Intel 525 30GB mSATA



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Marcus MERIGHI
p...@incedo.org (Sj??holm Per-Olov), 2016.06.19 (Sun) 11:56 (CEST):
> Does anyone know if there exist any list of recommendations about how
> to make an SSD disk to live as long as possible when using it for
> firewall purpose on OpenBSD?  

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=144738462109908

Bye, Marcus

> It seems that OpenBSD lack some features related to SSDs like TRIM.
> SSDs are getting more popular, but I cannot find much info in the OpenBSD FAQ
> or on misc. Also, it is not that easy to get a good understanding of how long
> an average good SSD will really live with average disk writes from the specs.
> And there a more than one way to give specs about this where DWPD is one and
> MTBF is another.
> 
> Therefor I at least want to do the easy steps to make it long lived...
> 
> Softdep is probably a good thing. What else? And I think of rewriting the
> logging handling with dates in /var/log to avoid a move of all logs every day.
> Or is that waste of time? Any special handling/settings for swap and /tmp?
> 
> Input very much appreciated
> 
> Tnx in advance
> 
> /Peo
> Current FW system: OpenBSD 5.9 stable, Mainboard: NF9HG-2930, Nics: i211AT,
> CPU: N2930, Disk: Intel 525 30GB mSATA
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:57666c71139262012919378!



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Stefan Sperling
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 11:56:57AM +0200, Sjöholm Per-Olov wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know if there exist any list of recommendations about how to make
> an SSD disk to live as long as possible when using it for firewall purpose on
> OpenBSD?  It seems that OpenBSD lack some features related to SSDs like TRIM.
> SSDs are getting more popular, but I cannot find much info in the OpenBSD FAQ
> or on misc. Also, it is not that easy to get a good understanding of how long
> an average good SSD will really live with average disk writes from the specs.
> And there a more than one way to give specs about this where DWPD is one and
> MTBF is another.
> 
> Therefor I at least want to do the easy steps to make it long lived...
> 
> Softdep is probably a good thing. What else? And I think of rewriting the
> logging handling with dates in /var/log to avoid a move of all logs every day.
> Or is that waste of time? Any special handling/settings for swap and /tmp?
> 
> 
> 
> Input very much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> Tnx in advance
> 
> /Peo
> Current FW system: OpenBSD 5.9 stable, Mainboard: NF9HG-2930, Nics: i211AT,
> CPU: N2930, Disk: Intel 525 30GB mSATA

I would just not worry about it. Don't waste time optimizing your setup
to treat these disks like special snowflakes.

I've been using SSDs in several OpenBSD machines for years without problems.
Some of my hard disks died much sonner.

Plan ahead for the day when your disk fails.
Nobody can tell how long your particular disk will last.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Paul Suh
> On Jun 19, 2016, at 5:56 AM, Sjöholm Per-Olov  wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Does anyone know if there exist any list of recommendations about how to
make
> an SSD disk to live as long as possible when using it for firewall purpose
on
> OpenBSD?  It seems that OpenBSD lack some features related to SSDs like
TRIM.
> SSDs are getting more popular, but I cannot find much info in the OpenBSD
FAQ
> or on misc. Also, it is not that easy to get a good understanding of how
long
> an average good SSD will really live with average disk writes from the
specs.
> And there a more than one way to give specs about this where DWPD is one
and
> MTBF is another.
>
> Therefor I at least want to do the easy steps to make it long lived...
>
> Softdep is probably a good thing. What else? And I think of rewriting the
> logging handling with dates in /var/log to avoid a move of all logs every
day.
> Or is that waste of time? Any special handling/settings for swap and /tmp?

Sjöholm,

Take a look at:

https://github.com/yellowman/flashrd
https://github.com/markhellewell/resflash

Hope this helps.


--Paul

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which 
had a name of smime.p7s]



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Chris Cappuccio
Paul Suh [pl...@goodeast.com] wrote:
> 
> Sj??holm,
> 
> Take a look at:
> 
> https://github.com/yellowman/flashrd
> https://github.com/markhellewell/resflash
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 

I'd just use a regular install on a a modern SSD. flashrd and other
techniques are great for _cheap_ and potentially buggy or otherwise
less reliable flash, such as USB sticks or SD cards. Most modern
SSDs do not fall in this category and are designed for long reliability,
especially in a typical appliance role where they don't get a lot of
action. I've been very happy with the inexpensive PC Engines 16GB msata
SSD on the APU. It's a DRAM-free design, intended for longevity in these
applications, not the highest write speed. Same with the SanDisk Z400s
on larger boards. If you are really paranoid, put a few extra bucks into
the Samsung SM863. I use the 1.92TB version under softraid 1 for a busy
mail server. It's a workhorse.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Chris Cappuccio
Sj??holm Per-Olov [p...@incedo.org] wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know if there exist any list of recommendations about how to make
> an SSD disk to live as long as possible when using it for firewall purpose on
> OpenBSD?  It seems that OpenBSD lack some features related to SSDs like TRIM.
> SSDs are getting more popular, but I cannot find much info in the OpenBSD FAQ
> or on misc. Also, it is not that easy to get a good understanding of how long
> an average good SSD will really live with average disk writes from the specs.
> And there a more than one way to give specs about this where DWPD is one and
> MTBF is another.
> 

A good SSD will live forever in a low-usage environment. The biggest problem
with flash devices in my experience seem like some kind of controller or
component failure, not a write durability issue. Hopefully, a well engineered
device with good components can avoid this type of failure. That's what
we're all hoping because this is what everyone buys now...

> Softdep is probably a good thing. What else? And I think of rewriting the
> logging handling with dates in /var/log to avoid a move of all logs every day.
> Or is that waste of time? Any special handling/settings for swap and /tmp?
> 

Softdep is a trade-off. If the box is an appliance and does not frequently get
files created and deleted, it provides no advantage. Swap is probably never
going to be used.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Edgar Pettijohn
On 16-06-19 11:56:57, Sj??holm Per-Olov wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Does anyone know if there exist any list of recommendations about how to make
> an SSD disk to live as long as possible when using it for firewall purpose on
> OpenBSD?  It seems that OpenBSD lack some features related to SSDs like TRIM.
> SSDs are getting more popular, but I cannot find much info in the OpenBSD FAQ
> or on misc. Also, it is not that easy to get a good understanding of how long
> an average good SSD will really live with average disk writes from the specs.
> And there a more than one way to give specs about this where DWPD is one and
> MTBF is another.
> 
> Therefor I at least want to do the easy steps to make it long lived...
> 
> Softdep is probably a good thing. What else? And I think of rewriting the
> logging handling with dates in /var/log to avoid a move of all logs every day.
> Or is that waste of time? Any special handling/settings for swap and /tmp?
> 
> 
> 
> Input very much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> Tnx in advance
> 
> /Peo
> Current FW system: OpenBSD 5.9 stable, Mainboard: NF9HG-2930, Nics: i211AT,
> CPU: N2930, Disk: Intel 525 30GB mSATA
> 
I started with this quide. However, keep in mind some of it needs to 
be changed to fit what you need, etc.  Plus some of it just plain 
didn't work.

http://blog.spoofed.org/2007/12/openbsd-on-soekris-cheaters-guide.html

So far I haven't had any problems with my final setup thats been running
for over a year now. I am afraid to upgrade due to the library reordering 
and W^X stuff, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to work around.
-- 
Edgar Pettijohn



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 07:58:33 +0900 Tae Wong 
> The source page I provided here is http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html
>
> In this page, I've found the following errors.
> • In the "I'm still here" song credits, Jonathan Lewis is displayed as
> Jonathan D. Lewis (middle initial?)
> • In the "11 1010101" song credits, Duncan McDonald is spelled as
> Duncan McDonnald. His last name should have only one n.
> • In the OpenBSD 3.5 song lyrics, the word vis a vis should be
> displayed as vis-a-vis (hyphenated).
>
> I don't have a patch created so someone should create it and commit it.

That would be a complete waste of their time, like you wasted ropers.

You're not part of the OpenBSD developers, you're coming from a free
mail provider (gmail).  You show nothing to validate your suggestion.
You should probably stop making corrections in people's names unless
you get appointed to do so by the project.  Until then, this is just
ignored, and wastes bytes, electricity, time, mostly yours.  Re-read:

..you are introducing errors that cannot be confirmed..  We all have
better things to do.  from [http://marc.info/?m=144605715428106]

P.S. What kind of SEO is changing personal names?  No, ask yourself.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
"I am afraid to upgrade".. is a total deal breaker, just buy a good SSD.
Install as if installing on a HDD, it does not make a difference, except
that you pay more.  When you fill the SSD it will perform just as a HDD.



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread Ivan Markin
li...@wrant.com:
> You're not part of the OpenBSD developers, you're coming from a free
> mail provider (gmail).  You show nothing to validate your suggestion.
> You should probably stop making corrections in people's names unless
> you get appointed to do so by the project.  Until then, this is just
> ignored, and wastes bytes, electricity, time, mostly yours.  Re-read:
> 
> ..you are introducing errors that cannot be confirmed..  We all have
> better things to do.  from [http://marc.info/?m=144605715428106]

What the heck is wrong with you? Why can't you stop offending people and
discourage them to contribute?  If someone want to improve then there's
nothing wrong with it. Everybody have different set of skills and
they're trying to do a good thing as they _can_.
"Waste of developers' time", "good quality standards"? If you have
something to add/clarify about this suggestion from Tae Wong then go
ahead and do it instead of "lowering mailing list quality standards" by
yourself.

> You're not part of the OpenBSD developers, you're coming from a free
> mail provider (gmail).

Do you think that it's OK to discriminate people? Have you noticed that
you did so?

P.S. I'm not going to feed you.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Edgar Pettijohn
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 19, 2016, at 11:34 AM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
>
> "I am afraid to upgrade".. is a total deal breaker, just buy a good SSD.

What deal?
At the time of install those weren't issues. If I upgrade they become issues.
Very minor issues, but it will take user intervention (time) that I don't want
to spend.

> Install as if installing on a HDD, it does not make a difference, except
> that you pay more.  When you fill the SSD it will perform just as a HDD.

I agree. However, if you want to experiment for fun or whatever the motive. Go
for it. I had no real reason to do what I did other than for the hell of it.



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:00:36 + Ivan Markin 
> li...@wrant.com:
> > You're not part of the OpenBSD developers, you're coming from a free
> > mail provider (gmail).  You show nothing to validate your suggestion.
> > You should probably stop making corrections in people's names unless
> > you get appointed to do so by the project.  Until then, this is just
> > ignored, and wastes bytes, electricity, time, mostly yours.  Re-read:
> > 
> > ..you are introducing errors that cannot be confirmed..  We all have
> > better things to do.  from [http://marc.info/?m=144605715428106]  
> 
> What the heck is wrong with you? Why can't you stop offending people and
> discourage them to contribute?  If someone want to improve then there's
> nothing wrong with it. Everybody have different set of skills and
> they're trying to do a good thing as they _can_.

What's wrong with YOU not understanding simple facts, but ranting back?
You're creating fuss about nothing.  Practically there is nothing here.
Did you check the other thread, did you check this email address posts?

[http://marc.info/?a=13561551954&w=4]

> "Waste of developers' time", "good quality standards"? If you have
> something to add/clarify about this suggestion from Tae Wong then go
> ahead and do it instead of "lowering mailing list quality standards" by
> yourself.
> 
> > You're not part of the OpenBSD developers, you're coming from a free
> > mail provider (gmail).  
> 
> Do you think that it's OK to discriminate people? Have you noticed that
> you did so?
> 
> P.S. I'm not going to feed you.

I'm sure you're feeding yourself perfectly well so far.  Ivan, please do
not get so upset about emails.  The important detail is whether the info
provided is actually useful or NOT.  It is either unverifiable, or just
otherwise unhelpful, creating churn and potential undetectable (double)
errors.  Now, you can be a grown up too.  You're complaining about some
wave of hatred but you're contributing to it, instead of checking facts.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:32:38 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn

> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jun 19, 2016, at 11:34 AM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
> >
> > "I am afraid to upgrade".. is a total deal breaker, just buy a good SSD.  
> 
> What deal?

Of maintaining the system via regular updates.  This is an important
procedure, and if some install choice interferes, the install choice,
you guessed right: it's wrong because it interferes with maintenance.

> At the time of install those weren't issues. If I upgrade they become issues.

Exactly: Unable to upgrade, means you have to re-install.  Pick some
different choice next time, one which does not prevent upgrades.  Or
stay forever stuck in that moment of time, which is called business.

> Very minor issues, but it will take user intervention (time) that I don't want
> to spend.
> 
> > Install as if installing on a HDD, it does not make a difference, except
> > that you pay more.  When you fill the SSD it will perform just as a HDD.  
> 
> I agree. However, if you want to experiment for fun or whatever the motive. Go
> for it. I had no real reason to do what I did other than for the hell of it.

Of course, the take away fact is: in terms of the operating system,
SSD are just as good as any HDD is.  Only different storage medium,
the controller takes care of this.  If you pick the better quality
SSDs (which have more head room for cell fatigue remapping), you'll
get a decent modern controller as well.  The SSD are newer devices,
but they are maturing rapidly.  The only hot spot is price and this
is not going to be a match for HDDs any time soon.  But you can get
somewhat faster reads on average, if this is your rate for success.

Synopsis: there is no need to treat SSD any special way user level.
To ensure long life, it is more important to keep electronics cool.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Edgar Pettijohn
On 16-06-19 21:02:45, li...@wrant.com wrote:
> Sun, 19 Jun 2016 12:32:38 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn
> 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Jun 19, 2016, at 11:34 AM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
> > >
> > > "I am afraid to upgrade".. is a total deal breaker, just buy a good SSD.  
> > 
> > What deal?
> 
> Of maintaining the system via regular updates.  This is an important
> procedure, and if some install choice interferes, the install choice,
> you guessed right: it's wrong because it interferes with maintenance.
>

What maintenance? Who decides whats "wrong"? 
 
> > At the time of install those weren't issues. If I upgrade they become 
> > issues.
> 
> Exactly: Unable to upgrade, means you have to re-install.  Pick some
> different choice next time, one which does not prevent upgrades.  Or
> stay forever stuck in that moment of time, which is called business.

I am not unable to upgrade. I choose not to at this time.

> 
> > Very minor issues, but it will take user intervention (time) that I don't 
> > want
> > to spend.
> > 
> > > Install as if installing on a HDD, it does not make a difference, except
> > > that you pay more.  When you fill the SSD it will perform just as a HDD.  
> > 
> > I agree. However, if you want to experiment for fun or whatever the motive. 
> > Go
> > for it. I had no real reason to do what I did other than for the hell of it.
> 
> Of course, the take away fact is: in terms of the operating system,
> SSD are just as good as any HDD is.  Only different storage medium,
> the controller takes care of this.  If you pick the better quality
> SSDs (which have more head room for cell fatigue remapping), you'll
> get a decent modern controller as well.  The SSD are newer devices,
> but they are maturing rapidly.  The only hot spot is price and this
> is not going to be a match for HDDs any time soon.  But you can get
> somewhat faster reads on average, if this is your rate for success.
> 
> Synopsis: there is no need to treat SSD any special way user level.
> To ensure long life, it is more important to keep electronics cool.
> 

-- 
Edgar Pettijohn



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Paolo Aglialoro
U told about a firewall, that one is no way a write intensive task, so in
this use case it would go well any SSD.

If u really think about a write intensive use case, I would go for Samsung
850EVO devices: the 500gb model of the previous 840pro has been tested to
write more than 1.9pb before dying and the current 850pro around 7pb (just
google for these tests). The 850 series sport the new vertical nand cells
which are said to be tougher than previous ones. This said, I expect the
850evo 500gb to write more than 2pb in its life cycle, which is way more
than the average PC will write in its whole life.

If this is not enough for u, dell features a lineup of "write intensive"
(yes, included in the name) SSDs, which sport around double the cells of
their official commercial size in order to guarantee a substitution rate of
more (right now don't remember how many times) than a complete rewrite
every day for 5 years... of course not so cheap like the Samsung evo models.

Have phun!



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:27:09 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn

> I am not unable to upgrade. I choose not to at this time.

It is your choice, other users of the operating system want to be able.

> > Synopsis: there is no need to treat SSD any special way user level.
> > To ensure long life, it is more important to keep electronics cool.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Chris Bennett
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 09:02:45PM +0300, li...@wrant.com wrote:
>  The only hot spot  
> 
> To ensure long life, it is more important to keep electronics cool.
> 

An excellent way to keep your firewall box "cool" is to put some nice
OpenBSD stickers on the outside. Be sure to wear an OpenBSD tee-shirt
while applying them.

And since we are talking about firewalls and "hot spots", you may want
to keep your firewall inside of a room with a true firewall.
Multiple sheets of drywall stacked on top of each other keep fires from
coming in for longer periods. Hospitals tend to have four hour firewalls
everywhere to keep fires from propagating rapidly.

So I think that deals with this whole problem of "hot spots" and
keeping "cool".

Go buy a CD set and some tee-shirts and all your problems are solved!

I feel so cool having put this fire out!

:-)

Chris



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:13:35 -0500 Chris Bennett

> > To ensure long life, it is more important to keep electronics cool.
> 
> An excellent way to keep your firewall box "cool" is to put some nice
> OpenBSD stickers on the outside. Be sure to wear an OpenBSD tee-shirt
> while applying them.

Yes, stickers make good visual appeal, but they don't reduce temperature.
Usage of low noise reliable DC fans will do you more good than the these:

> And since we are talking about firewalls and "hot spots", you may want
> to keep your firewall inside of a room with a true firewall.
> 
> So I think that deals with this whole problem of "hot spots" and
> keeping "cool".

Solved by sufficient air flow of standard room temperature (25 deg Celsius
or cooler, above condensation point) around the heat exchange radiator(s).

This takes away dissipated heat for any device with heat output more than
free convection naturally takes away.  Several degrees above normal temp
reduces the longevity of the devices exponentially (in years per degree).

> Go buy a CD set and some tee-shirts and all your problems are solved!

Then don't seek some flawed tutorial online, but start with the README.
Install as instructed, simple and easy, and don't worry about your SSD.

> I feel so cool having put this fire out!

And no more hyperventilating for you, Chris, you've had it for today ;)



Re: [pf] NAT64 rule for *outgoing* packets

2016-06-19 Thread Sebastian Benoit
Dan L??dtke(m...@danrl.com) on 2016.06.07 19:14:24 +0200:
> Follow-up:
> 
> This rule matches outgoing packets to nat64 well-known prefix 64:ff9b::/96:
> pass out quick on $if_wan inet6 from $if_wan:network to 64:ff9b::/96 af-to
> inet from ($if_wan)

af-to does not work on pass out rules.

Why do you want to use it on the gateway itself?

/Benno

 
> Echo requests do leave $if_wan with translated address family, replies show up
> in tcpdump on $if_wan:
> 
> 19:09:54.038392 router > 8.8.8.8: icmp: echo request (DF)
> 19:09:54.051733 8.8.8.8 > router: icmp: echo reply
> 
> BUT the echo replies do *not* make it through to the ping6 process. It looks
> like there is no back-translation taking place. Anyone ideas how to debug or
> follow packets on their way through the kernel for this issue?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> > On 7 Jun 2016, at 14:48, Dan L??dtke  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > my setup: [host]--[router]--[internet]
> >
> > [Host] can ping legacy internet hosts via NAT64. Works fine. Corresponding
> > line in pf.conf reads:
> > pass in  quick on $if_lan inet6 from $if_lan:network to 64:ff9b::/96 af-to
> > inet from ($if_wan)
> >
> > However, [router] can not ping legacy internet hosts via NAT64. It can, of
> > course, reach legacy internet hosts natively.
> >
> > How to push outgoing traffic addressed to 64:ff9b::/96 through pf's NAT64
> > engine?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > Some outputs FYI:
> >
> > router# route get 64:ff9b::/96
> > route: writing to routing socket: No such process
> >
> >
> > router# ping6 64:ff9b::8.8.8.8
> > PING6 64:ff9b::8.8.8.8 (64:ff9b::808:808): 24 data bytes
> > ^C--- 64:ff9b::8.8.8.8 ping6 statistics ---
> > 3 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100.0% packet loss
> 

-- 



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread Sebastian Benoit
Tae Wong(seotaewon...@gmail.com) on 2016.06.19 07:58:33 +0900:
> The source page I provided here is http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html
> 
> In this page, I've found the following errors.
> ??? In the "I'm still here" song credits, Jonathan Lewis is displayed as
> Jonathan D. Lewis (middle initial?)
> ??? In the "11 1010101" song credits, Duncan McDonald is spelled as
> Duncan McDonnald. His last name should have only one n.
> ??? In the OpenBSD 3.5 song lyrics, the word vis a vis should be
> displayed as vis-a-vis (hyphenated).
> 
> I don't have a patch created so someone should create it and commit it.

Hi,

these errors have been fixed, thank you.

/Benno



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 08:09:24 -0700 Chris Cappuccio 
> I'd just use a regular install on a a modern SSD. flashrd and other
> techniques are great for _cheap_ and potentially buggy or otherwise
> less reliable flash, such as USB sticks or SD cards.

A gateway and a local server here both ran 5 yrs off a cheap 16 GB USB
thumb drive, which I dismantled and stuck in the motherboards USB slot
inside the box.  This never saw a read-only file system,  and had none
issues the whole period with ~zero downtime.  The USB sticks are still
in use, and work to this day regular store and retrieve cycles.  I now
use spinning HDDs in the boxes, after I managed to rework them to have
more reliable air flow.  So the fanless SSD appliances put the SSDs in
risk because of no fan, and not because of write operations, that's it.
Plus HDDs are cheaper, and endure better higher temperatures than SSDs.



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread lists
> The important detail is whether the info provided is actually useful

Seems like this was useful, so even minutest contributions help along.



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread Peter Rippe
>>That would be a complete waste of their time, like you wasted ropers.
>
>You're not part of the OpenBSD developers, you're coming from a free
>mail provider (gmail).  You show nothing to validate your suggestion.
>You should probably stop making corrections in people's names unless
>you get appointed to do so by the project. Until then, this is just
>ignored, and wastes bytes, electricity, time, mostly yours

>>What's wrong with YOU not understanding simple facts, but ranting back?

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 7:38 PM,   wrote:
>> The important detail is whether the info provided is actually useful
>
> Seems like this was useful, so even minutest contributions help along.
>

Was that some sort of attempt at an apology for shooting your mouth off
again and acting like an asshole, despite the developers having previously
told you to not speak on their behalf, or act like an asshole?



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread Philip Guenther
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 4:38 PM,   wrote:
>> The important detail is whether the info provided is actually useful

Yes.  Committers get their commit bit by submitting diffs.


> Seems like this was useful, so even minutest contributions help along.

Someone who can't admit they were wrong can't be a good developer: we
all make mistakes and must be ready to have others catch our mistakes,
point them out to us, and *learn* from them and grow to be better
developers and better *people*.  I've lost track of how many times
kettenis@ or miod@ or deraadt@ has pointed out a flaw in my logic or
my code; *acknowledging* the mistake and working to do better is the
only correct response.


Philip Guenther



Randomish Reboots on Current

2016-06-19 Thread Daniel Wilkins
Has anyone else been hvaing random reboots on current? The system freezes up for
maybe 30 seconds or so, then reboots. I have a hunch that it's something with my
wifi card because occasionally during a reboot it'll error saying something 
about
MIC errors and then reboot, or just freeze+reboot during the netstart portion 
of boot.
The other thing that makes me think it's network is that it tends to happen 
during
relatively network heavy things, like when I'm doing ssh X forwarding while 
watching
streaming video, but this isn't always the case.


This is a recent thing that just seems to have randomly appeared; it was working
fine before and then it started rebooting one day; I hadn't updated the snapshot
although I've tried that since to see if it helped. There's no panic so I don't
have any ddb info, but I've attached dmesg and dmesg.boot.
OpenBSD 6.0-beta (GENERIC.MP) #2165: Thu Jun  2 08:37:59 MDT 2016
dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP
real mem = 8237068288 (7855MB)
avail mem = 7982804992 (7612MB)
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.7 @ 0xdae9c000 (69 entries)
bios0: vendor LENOVO version "G1ETA2WW (2.62 )" date 01/10/2014
bios0: LENOVO 2344BZU
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SLIC TCPA SSDT SSDT SSDT HPET APIC MCFG ECDT FPDT ASF! 
UEFI UEFI MSDM SSDT SSDT DMAR UEFI DBG2
acpi0: wakeup devices LID_(S4) SLPB(S3) IGBE(S4) EXP3(S4) XHCI(S3) EHC1(S3) 
EHC2(S3) HDEF(S4)
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz, 1197.48 MHz
cpu0: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0
mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges
cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz
cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.1.1.2, IBE
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz, 1197.28 MHz
cpu1: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu1: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu1: smt 1, core 0, package 0
cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
cpu2: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz, 1197.28 MHz
cpu2: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu2: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu2: smt 0, core 1, package 0
cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 3 (application processor)
cpu3: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3320M CPU @ 2.60GHz, 1197.28 MHz
cpu3: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu3: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu3: smt 1, core 1, package 0
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 2 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins
acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf800, bus 0-63
acpiec0 at acpi0
acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG_)
acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (EXP1)
acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 3 (EXP2)
acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (EXP3)
acpicpu0 at acpi0: C3(200@87 mwait.1@0x30), C2(500@59 mwait.1@0x10), C1(1000@1 
mwait.1), PSS
acpicpu1 at acpi0: C3(200@87 mwait.1@0x30), C2(500@59 mwait.1@0x10), C1(1000@1 
mwait.1), PSS
acpicpu2 at acpi0: C3(200@87 mwait.1@0x30), C2(500@59 mwait.1@0x10), C1(1000@1 
mwait.1), PSS
acpicpu3 at acpi0: C3(200@87 mwait.1@0x30), C2(500@59 mwait.1@0x10), C1(1000@1 
mwait.1), PSS
acpipwrres0 at acpi0: PUBS, resource for XHCI, EHC1, EHC2
acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 200 degC
acpibtn0 at acpi0: LID_
acpibtn1 at acpi0: SLPB
"LEN0071" at acpi0 not configured
"LEN0015" at acpi0 not configured
"SMO1200" at acpi0 not configured
acpibat0 at acpi0: BAT0 model "45N1107" serial 24045 type LION oem "LGC"
acpiac0 at acpi0: AC unit offline
"LEN0078" at acpi0 not configured
acpithinkpad0 at acpi0
"PNP0C14" at acpi0 not configured
"PNP0C14" at acpi0 not configured
acpivideo0 at acpi0: VID_
acpivout at acpivideo0 not configured
a

Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread lists
> >> The important detail is whether the info provided is actually useful  
> >
> > Seems like this was useful, so even minutest contributions help along.
> 
> Was that some sort of attempt at an apology for shooting your mouth off

Yes, are you happy or you want me to try again this time in 13+ lines?
I can also apologise for other matters too, it's not any problem here.



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:35:39 -0700 Philip Guenther 
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 4:38 PM,   wrote:
> >> The important detail is whether the info provided is actually useful  
> 
> Yes.  Committers get their commit bit by submitting diffs.
> 
> > Seems like this was useful, so even minutest contributions help along.  
> 
> Someone who can't admit they were wrong can't be a good developer: we
> all make mistakes and must be ready to have others catch our mistakes,
> point them out to us, and *learn* from them and grow to be better
> developers and better *people*.  I've lost track of how many times
> kettenis@ or miod@ or deraadt@ has pointed out a flaw in my logic or
> my code; *acknowledging* the mistake and working to do better is the
> only correct response.
> 
> 
> Philip Guenther

I agree.  Thanks.  I'll try better.  I can't promise miracles though.
But I will try.  More.  As long as it takes.  Please be patient, tnx.



Re: Corrections to the Release Song Lyrics page

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:35:39 -0700 Philip Guenther 
> >> The important detail is whether the info provided is actually useful
>
> Yes.  Committers get their commit bit by submitting diffs.
>
> > Seems like this was useful, so even minutest contributions help along.
>
> Someone who can't admit they were wrong can't be a good developer: we
> all make mistakes and must be ready to have others catch our mistakes,
> point them out to us, and *learn* from them and grow to be better
> developers and better *people*.  I've lost track of how many times
> kettenis@ or miod@ or deraadt@ has pointed out a flaw in my logic or
> my code; *acknowledging* the mistake and working to do better is the
> only correct response.
>
> Philip Guenther

>From this, I gained understanding that past emails and decisions, based
on them are not always valid for current emails (wink Ivan).  Different
decisions happen with each case, independently careful attention to all
no matter how minor detail it may seem.  Every contribution counts, and
is reviewed and assessed for quality.  My *mistake* was to misjudge and
actually demonstrate quick memory by correlating *past* email, got that.
If you think you can add more to this, please do, I would appreciate it.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Edgar Pettijohn
Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2016, at 2:58 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote:

>>> Sun, 19 Jun 2016 13:27:09 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn 
 I am not unable to upgrade. I choose not to at this time.
>
>>> On Jun 19, 2016, at 1:59 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
>>> "I am not unable to run with the chain on my ankles.  I choose not to."
>
> Sun, 19 Jun 2016 14:10:52 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn 
>> What chain? Sounds dangerous.
>
> Also dangerous is to run a border network (public facing) system for
> years without updating to current software: probably some bad habits.
>
Who said its public facing?

> As it is your system, it's OK to do as you please.  But don't recommend
> this to other users, as you will get no credit for such recommendations.
>

Didn't ask for credit. He wanted ideas. I provided with warnings.

> On Jun 19, 2016, at 1:59 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
>>> You're recommending a flawed tutorial that does offer the sane choices.
>
> Sun, 19 Jun 2016 14:10:52 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn 
>> I didn't recommend following it. Just as an example of ideas.
>
> It's way outdated.  Please don't mention current improvements and
> mitigation measures as any thing preventing you from the upgrades.
>
I warned it wasn't great.

I believe I said the time involved was the reason. Please don't reinterpret my
words on the list.

> It is only you who prevents you from upgrading or staying current.
>

That is obvious.

> There is no problem you following any tutorial on the Internet.
> There is a problem when you mention mitigation measures as bad.
>
Never did.

> It is very good, if you do not want this, you can skip OpenBSD.

Ok. Thanks for the seller advice.



Re: Randomish Reboots on Current

2016-06-19 Thread Philip Guenther
On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Daniel Wilkins  wrote:
> Has anyone else been hvaing random reboots on current? The system freezes up 
> for
> maybe 30 seconds or so, then reboots. I have a hunch that it's something with 
> my
> wifi card because occasionally during a reboot it'll error saying something 
> about
> MIC errors and then reboot, or just freeze+reboot during the netstart portion 
> of boot.
> The other thing that makes me think it's network is that it tends to happen 
> during
> relatively network heavy things, like when I'm doing ssh X forwarding while 
> watching
> streaming video, but this isn't always the case.
>
> This is a recent thing that just seems to have randomly appeared; it was 
> working
> fine before and then it started rebooting one day; I hadn't updated the 
> snapshot
> although I've tried that since to see if it helped. There's no panic so I 
> don't
> have any ddb info, but I've attached dmesg and dmesg.boot.

Saying "before" without what that *means* leaves us guessing.  What
was the date of the snapshot or build you had installed *before* this
occurred?  Maybe it's still showing in an old /var/log/message.* file?


Philip Guenther



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:35:04 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...
> Ok. Thanks for the seller advice.

Who said it's seller advice?  I said your idea is not a good idea at all.



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread Edgar Pettijohn
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 19, 2016, at 11:01 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
>
> Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:35:04 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ...
>> Ok. Thanks for the seller advice.
>
> Who said it's seller advice?  I said your idea is not a good idea at all.
>
My idea was sharing information. If that's a bad idea then why are you on the
list?



Re: Long life on SSD in a firewall environment

2016-06-19 Thread lists
Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:05:34 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn

> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jun 19, 2016, at 11:01 PM, li...@wrant.com wrote:
> > 
> > Sun, 19 Jun 2016 21:35:04 -0500 Edgar Pettijohn   
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> ...
> >> Ok. Thanks for the seller advice.  
> > 
> > Who said it's seller advice?  I said your idea is not a good idea at all.
> >   
> My idea was sharing information. If that's a bad idea then why are you on the 
> list?

Edgar, you're misleading people and obviously this why "You" are here.