Re: Voiceover training manuals
Thanks for doing these manuals - what a great service! Will there be a central location where users can find them? I think a VO wiki is a great idea. Also, is there any hope of developing a fix so that VO will someday work with the paid version of MS Word? It's such a key program, so key that there's a Mac version. Is VO access an issue to take up with Apple or with Microsoft? Cathyk On Jul 15, 9:43 am, Chris Moore wrote: > Perhaps we should create a voice over wiki area where we can all contribute > and keep them up to date on a variety of apps. > On 15 Jul 2010, at 17:33, Eric Caron wrote:> Hi Scot, > > > I would find manuals designed for blind users especially helpful with > > Pages, Or other powerful word processor. But I would also grab up many > > others such as Amadeus Pro, Skype,iTunes,and other tutorials such as using > > Mobile me Gmail, and other web based services. And Don't forget Face book. > > > If you are sharing manuals you have all ready completed I'd love to hear > > them. > > > Eric Caron > > > On Jul 15, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Scott Ballard-Ridley wrote: > > >> Hi all > > >> I am currently in the process of writing a comprehensive database of > >> Voiceover for the mac. i am looking to make these manuals freely available > >> through a number of outlets. i have already written manuals for the > >> majority of the standard Apple apps that come with the OS but i am also > >> looking to write manuals for frequently used 3rd party apps. if any of you > >> can think of some manuals that you would like for apps that you commonly > >> use, would you be so kind as to let me know either through this list or a > >> direct message. kind regards > > >> Scott Ballard-Ridley > > >> Twitter: scottballardrid > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "MacVisionaries" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
MS Word's lack of access with VO
Dear List, I've been struck by how willing we are to accept the fact that VO doesn't work natively with MS Word. At one level all the work-arounds show just how flexible, enterprising, and creative we are; every employer should be eager to hire anyone with such spark and, yes, ability. But am I the only one who fluctuates between sadness and outright anger that a program like MS Word, so standard in every single thing related to word processing, isn't accessible from the get- go? Every work-around means time and energy taken away from the main task at hand, whatever it is we're hoping to do. Each conversion on its own is just a few seconds here and there. But these seconds add up, plus they leave us open to unnecessary mistakes, which reflect badly on our capabilities. I know some people on this list have been trying to change this. I propose we band together, and really push for this to happen collectively. We can certainly make it more public that despite all the claims for accessibility, VO doesn't work with a MAJOR program. I frankly don't care whether the fault lies with Apple or Microsoft - they need to be made to play together, just as they surely have on other matters. As an added incentive, I know that lots more sighted people are warming to the idea of having long documents read to them, which means that this improvement would have broader benefits and could even be a marketing tool for Apple to tout its screen reader as an interesting technology for all. Please excuse this rant, but it's been building up; I just can't understand why we're so willing to accept the status quo when the thing that excited so many of us about the Mac was finally being part of mainstream technology. In solidarity, cathyk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Apple hiring engineers, 3 positions accessibility related
Hi All, In light of my recent query about VO & MS Word, I'm very pleased by these job announcements. I'd like to propose at least two more that Apple consider: customer service reps who can demonstrate the access features based on first-hand, in-depth experience, and someone who will write a truly useful user manual for VO. Don't get me wrong: I think Apple has made amazing advances in assistive tech. This is why I'm eager to have a company that is riding an unprecedented wave of financial success (and one that boasts extraordinary customer service) devote a tiny portion of these profits to paying people whose sole job is explain how the features work. I think I read on this list that someone is compiling an informal manual; if this is true, make Apple pay you for your hard work, just as the company surely paid someone to write all the other manuals. And if I'm missing where I can get info beyond posting queries to this list, reading through the (not very) in- depth user guide, or watching the sorry short videos, please do tell! Feeling feisty on a Friday, cathyk On Sep 3, 5:10 am, Donna Goodin wrote: > Hi all, > > Forgive the cross post. I received the following info on the Top Tech > Tidbits mailing list, and thought that perhaps it would be of interest to > some here. I also think it supports well the points that some of us have > been making about Apple's commitment to accessibility. I personally find the > fact that they're hiring three engineers for accessibility related work to be > very impressive. > > Apple is hiring an Accessibility SoftwareQuality > engineerhttp://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=54... > an Accessibility Software > Engineerhttp://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=57... > an iPhone Accessibility > engineerhttp://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=54... > and a WebKit > engineerhttp://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=50... > > Best, > Donna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Voiceover with Open Office how-to's?
Hi All, Apologies if this has come up before, but with the unlikelihood of access in MS-Word 2011 it seems newly relevant: has anyone compiled a how-to guide for those of us who want to make most efficient use of the access features in Open Office? Thanks much, cathyk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: voiceover manual for IOS4?
Dear All, I agree with Erik: where is David Pogue's blind twin brother who could write us a "missing manual" for vo? Is there a way to create a macvisionaries wiki where people could contribute to a set of how- to's, maybe by beginning with a list of FAQs? I realize that macvisionaries archives probably contains a lot of valuable info, but wouldn't it be great to have the wisdom collected in one place and updated? I'd be happy to help in such an effort, with my main contribution being an endless string of pathetic newbie questions. But we all have to start somewhere, right? For more immediate help, Robert Carter of the Tech Doctor podcasts directed me to Mike Arrigo's podcasts on the ipod touch and vo at Blind Cool Tech: http://www.blindcooltech.com/ Best, cathyk On Oct 5, 7:58 am, erik burggraaf wrote: > Thanks Esther, > > You wrote: > > The more useful accessible HTML version of the iPhone User Guide (that you > can access from anywhere) is at:http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/ > This seems to be what I'm after, but it renders a page not found error. > > I did some googling and found a snippit of documentation which basicly > outlined the voiceover gestures and nothing else. I have so many very basic > newbie questions that any public forum will soon grow weary of answering > them, so maybe I will try for the PDF manual. > > Thanks, > > Erik Burggraaf > User support consultant, > One on one access technology support and training over the phone or in person, > 1-888-255-5194http://www.erik-burggraaf.com > > On 2010-10-03, at 8:07 PM, Esther wrote: > > > Hi Erik, > > > There are two places to check for a manual on the iPod Touch. First, there > > should be an iPod Touch User's Guide listed under the Safari bookmarks of > > your iPod Touch. If you synched your bookmarks and overrode the default > > definitions you can add the URL: > >http://help.apple.com/ipodtouch/ > > to your bookmarked locations (you only need to type in > > "help.apple.com/ipodtouch/" and this address only works from an iPhone or > > iPod Touch. Anywhere else (on an iPad, or on your computer), you'll be > > taken to the Apple Support pages where you can find some link to a PDF > > version of the user guides. > > > The more useful accessible HTML version of the iPhone User Guide (that you > > can access from anywhere) is at: > >http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/ > > (There's no special accessible HTML version for just the parts that works > > for the iPod Touch) > > > Also, note the AppleVis web site for more information: > >http://applevis.com/ > > > A nice summary of the iOS 4 Apple Keyboard shortcuts may be found at: > >http://www.hllf.net/70 > > if you use a Bluetooth keyboard with your iPod Touch. > > > HTH. Cheers, > > > Esther > > > On Oct 3, 2010, erik burggraaf wrote: > > >> OK guys, I've got my first ipod touch here. I can navigate around the > >> screen, open apps and folders, sort of type on the slide type keyboard and > >> so on. Not bad for an hour or two fiddling, but I need a manual or > >> something, even if it stinks like the voiceover manual for Mac OS 10.6. > >> Anybody know where I can get this? > > >> Thanks, > > >> Erik Burggraaf > >> User support consultant, > >> One on one access technology support and training over the phone or in > >> person, > >> 1-888-255-5194 > >>http://www.erik-burggraaf.com > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: voiceover manual for IOS4?
Thanks Esther - this is a big help, and what I was looking for! I'm heartened to learn that someone is compiling a guide, and I was pleased to see Hadley jumping in with a course. And somehow I missed your wonderful post from a couple of months ago, so I appreciate you sending it again. Finally, thanks Erik for the Applevis info, and bravo for those breakthrough moments! May we all have them early and often, cathyk On Oct 5, 12:31 pm, Esther wrote: > Hi Erik, Cathy, Isaac, and Others, > > First a correction to the link I gave Erik. The accessible HTML > version of the iPhone 4 manual is at: > > http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en > > The accessible HTML version of the iPhone 3 manual (for those who did > not upgrade to iOS 4) is at: > > http://help.apple.com/iphone/3/voiceover/en > > I copied this incorrectly from a post to the viphone list. Apple has > been changing the address format for the accessible HTML version for > iOS4, so that there are versions for different languages indicated by > the two letter code at the end. The "en" for the English version is > what I left off. There are now accessible HTML versions in languages > corresponding to two letter codes for "fr" for French, "es" for > Spanish, "de" for German, "it" for Italian, "nl" for Dutch, "el" for > Greek, "pt" for Portuguese, "ja" for Japanese, "ko" for Korean, "da" > for Danish, "sv" for Swedish, "no" for Norwegian, "fi" for Finnish, > "hu" for Hungarian, "id" for Indonesian, "lt" for Lithuanian, "pl" for > Polish, "ro" for Romanian, "sk" for Slovak, "bg" for Bulgarian, "tr" > for Turkish, and probably others. > > I should mention that these appear to be converted from the PDF > versions of the user guides found in:http://support.apple.com/manuals/ > > Some of the characters are still odd, and they look in the state that > the English version of the iPhone users guide for iOS 4 looked, > shortly before its release. > > Anyway, for the English iPhone User Guide (iOS 4), the chapter on > accessibility starts > at:http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en/iph3e2e2c13.html > > and the section specifically about VoiceOver starts > at:http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en/iph3e2e4218.html > > (You might want to start reading one level higher under Accessibility > for information about low vision usage settings, or if you also have > hearing disabilities). What I did when I got my iPod Touch was > create a link to this section of the User Guide on my home page for > easy reference. After you open the section of the guide you want to > link in Safari (on your iPhone or iPod Touch), double tap the > "Utilities" button at the bottom of the screen, just above the "Home" > button. You'll hear VoiceOver announce the first utilities option, > "Add Bookmark, button". Flick right (or run your finger vertically > down the bottom half of the screen to hear the options) to the "Add to > Home Screen Button", and double tap. Then whenever you need to access > the manual to review the descirption of gestures, keyboard shortcuts, > text entry, etc. you can just double tap the icon on your home screen > to bring up this section in Safari. > > Richard Turner (on the viphone list) also converted a copy of the PDF > version of the iPhone User Guide to Word format. The direct link to > the zipped document is: > > http://www.turner42.com/iPhone_iOS41_User_Guide.zip > > For iPad users there is a free ePub version of the iPad User Guide in > the iBook store (but no user guides for the iPhone or iPod Touch there > yet). > > In addition to the Tech Doctor podcast and Mike Arrigo's podcasts on > the iPod Touch on Blind Cool Tech that cathyk mentioned, there are > some some other resources like Mark Taylor's Candleshore Blog and > Podcast, which had a lot of entries when everyone was getting started > a year ago, including some keyboard entry demos. Apart from the > AppleVis site, I'd mention Vision Australia. > > I'll paste in a post I made to the mac-access list 2 months ago in > response to a new user query for more iPhone resources: > > Hi Paul, > > I'll add a few other suggested sites. To follow up on Chris' > suggestion the general Vision Australia link that I posted last month > is:http://www.adaptive-tech.org/ess/html/ > > There's both general information on the iPhone and iPod Touch, and > also abo
glitch with vo & mail on iphone 4
Hi All, I just got an iphone 4 after using an earlier ipod touch, and find that when reading a message using the 2 finger down-swipe vo will often jump from the body of the message to the buttons. When there's a problem, it lands on "mark as unread," then "delete," "refresh," "move," "reply," "compose" (which means it skips "delete" in this reading, and doesn't follow the usual sequence of buttons). This makes it seem the bottom buttons are part of the message, except that it doesn't continue on to the message I was trying to read. This usually happens right after reading the date and time from within the body of the message - if it gets to text in the message, it's fine. This never happened on the touch. But since I'm new, I wonder if I'm using the wrong gesture or technique to access the message - I just swipe around until I hear something I want to read, then downswipe to hear all of it. Has anyone else had this problem? Any ideas about how to fix it? Thanks! cathyk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
requesting that an app be made accessible?
Hi All, What's the best way of asking that an app be made accessible? I was trying to read "Engaget" and a number of others. In the case of Endgaget, its not being accessible is surprising since it's mostly text. If the answer to my question is "contact the vendor," what's the most effective way of doing this? Thanks, cathyk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
is anyone using Devonthink?
Hi All, Does anyone have experience with the note-taking and organizing program "Devonthink"? The Professional Office version claims enhanced OCR. But searching the site, I didn't find anything that demonstrated a real commitment to access, so I thought I'd ask the list. Thanks much, cathyk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
MS Word and Pages
Hi Again, Is there a way to set a default so that MS Word doc files will open automatically in iwork's Pages? Any tips for working between these two programs in general would be very welcome! Thanks, cathyk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: MS Word and Pages
Hi Max, Thanks Max. Just to clarify, where am I "going to the file with the kind of extension I want," and which menu am I arrowing down? Sorry to be dense, but I'm new to this! Best, ck On May 30, 9:50 am, "Maxwell Ivey Jr." wrote: > Hello; if its like most other file types, yes you can. for example > mp3's are opened by itunes by default on my computer. You can do it > two ways. You can go to a file with the kind of extension you want > and click the menu then arrow down to always open with tap then right > arrow to bring up the slection list then go down until you find the > application you want as the default. if it isn't listed, you may have > to choose other and then scrowl through your programs then select that > program and enter should take care of it. the other way is if you use > command i for the information on a file and right arrow far enough you > will here that this file type is to be opened with whatever. You can > change it or you can click to open all similar files with the same > program. HOpe that helps. take care, Max > On May 30, 2010, at 10:28 AM, cathyk wrote:> Hi Again, > > Is there a way to set a default so that MS Word doc files will open > > automatically in iwork's Pages? > > > Any tips for working between these two programs in general would be > > very welcome! > > > Thanks, cathyk > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en > > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Prospective Mac User
Hi Kolby,
I bought my MacBook Pro about a month ago, and am largely happy. But
there are a few important things to know. 1) VO doesn't work with all
programs, notably MS Word. I was surprised that such an industry
standard requires finding workarounds every time you open a document,
which isn't ideal when doing collaborative writing projects or comment
on hundreds of papers electronically as I do. Whether this is Apple's
or Microsoft's fault, the bottom line is that Word files need to be
"translated" through programs like "Preview" (which comes installed)
or Pages in iworks, which requires laying out another $50 or $60.
Some say the new freeware version of Open Office works better; I
haven't tried, so I'd love to hear from someone who writes and edits a
lot. Even if it works better than the paid version, I suspect other
features get lost - alas, you get what you pay for. 2) the
portability features seem terrific but you should consider which
environments you'll be wanting to access because at least for now the
Mac market is quite small in comparison to PCs, so the number of
computers where your USB settings will work is fairly small. 3) VO is
very good, but it isn't JAWS or ZoomText. Many of us dream of a day
when we can use out-of-the-box technology just like everyone else;
we're much, much closer, but that day isn't there yet. 4) The user
support is limited for VO. This discussion list is excellent, but I
still have a growing list of questions that people can't answer and
that are impossible to look up. Even the in-depth manual isn't *that*
in-depth. This means there's a kind of pioneer spirit to the whole
thing, with people figuring out this and that just like they would
sort out how to repair a wagon wheel a thousand miles from
civilization. That's exciting, hip, and creative, but sometimes you
just want a simple answer to a nagging problem that's still beyond
even the best macvisionaries. All that said, I'm enjoying my new
machine.
Best,
Cathyk
On Jun 16, 2:10 pm, Pete Nalda wrote:
> First off, don't worry about what may be going on at the moment, with the
> update. Mac OS is still so much easier in general to deal with than windows
> and its various screen readers. This may not apply for everyone on here but
> to me the choice was economical. Every time there was a new version of
> windows, I'd have to purchase a new version ("upgrade") of ZoomText. I got
> tired of playing that game. Every time I buy a new version of Mac OSX, I get
> a new version of Zoom *and* VoiceOver :)
>
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Kolby Garrison wrote:
>
> > Hello Everyone,
> > I am considering purchasing a mac book pro, and I wanted to know what
> > satisfied mac users have to say about the pros and cons of mac and windows.
> > I have been researching voiceover, and it sounds like a very stable screen
> > reading solution. I like the portable preferences feature, and from what I
> > have read thus far I do believe that a mac book pro will be purchased in my
> > very near future. I will go to an apple store for some hands on time with a
> > mac, but if anyone would share your mac experiences with me I would
> > appreciate it. I know that there will be a learning curve going from the
> > windows operating system to the mac operating system, but I am ready and
> > willing to learn all that I can.
> > Thank you,
> > Kolby
>
> > --
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> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>
> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates)
> Pete Naldahttp://www.myspace.com/musikonaldahttp://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
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