Re: tabbing issue in e-mail under Ventura

[Tom Rash]

Is there any advantage to hiding that panel for sighted or blind?


> On Oct 11, 2023, at 6:45 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Yes, it is pretty much a visual thing unless the slider is set to a position 
> that closes the panel. Then the panel is non-existent to voiceover or to a 
> visual user.
> - Brad -
> 
> On Oct 11, 2023, at 07:19, Tom Rash  wrote:
> 
> Is that more of a visual thing , or does adjusting that affect what is 
> actually visible to read?
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:36 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> The splitter between the Mailbox table, and the Mailbox list table, 
>> determines how wide the Mailbox table is.
>> Interact with the splitter to adjust.
>> Splitter to the right of the Mailbox list table, will adjust the width of 
>> the Mail Preview area.
>> Again, interact with the splitter to adjust.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 22:25, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks.  I notice a splitter between the mail box table and the messages 
>> table.  There is another splitter just off to the right of the messages 
>> table.  What do those do?
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 2:59 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ray, no need to adjust anything. You can either use quick math or in 
>>> your control and option keys plus right arrow, out of the mailbox table, 
>>> and that will bring you into the Messages table. That's honestly the 
>>> quickest way to do that.
>>> 
 On Oct 8, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  
 wrote:
 
 Okay.
 
 I am running the latest version of Ventura which is all this 2017 Mac book 
 pro will support.
 
 When I first set it up, my e-mail was so configured that I would be in the 
 list of mail boxes and if I wanted to get to messages in a particular box, 
 I just selected the box with the arrow keys and then tabbed once to access 
 the list of messages for that box.  Recently, I did something which means 
 that now, instead of tabbing and back tabbing just once, I now must do it 
 twice.  Any ideas on what I might want to adjust?
 
 Thanks.
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user
 
 
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RE: Email Providers

['Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries]

The two large options are Google Workspace and Microsoft 365, of course, but 
they are only relevant if you want the office applications, the file storage, 
and other features.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of joseph hudson
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 12:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Email Providers

Oh, how nice I've never done that before. But I also don't have an icloud.com 
email address either.
Joseph Hudson

EmailFaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@twc.com
Connect with me on zoom

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09


On Oct 11, 2023, at 5:24 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

  Upon some information I received, I may be able to create a domain in 
iCloud.com so will look into that since I do have an iCloud address and a 
couple aliases..

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
-Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/11/2023 10:40 AM, joseph hudson wrote:

The only problem with mail.com and I talked with them about it and got nowhere. 
If they don't have an audio capture which is something that you need it 
whenever you try to enable IMAP so that you can be able to send and receive 
from a Mail client in your computer. That going to say that the mail.com app 
and website or mostly accessible. But there are still some issues.

On Oct 11, 2023, at 12:20 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

  What about Mail.com, is that accessible too? Thanks.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
-Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/11/2023 5:22 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

I would suggest purchasing a domain name, then associating it with an e-mail 
provider. You can change provider without ever changing your e-mail address.
There are plenty of online tutorials to assist in doing it.
I’ve never used Fastmail, but I’ve read positive comments about their services 
elsewhere.
*From: 
*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on 
behalf of Robin Frost mailto:robin...@fastmail.com>>
*Date: *Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 20:15
*To: *MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
*Subject: *Re: Email Providers
Hi,
When I left GMail for the bulk of my email activities I went with a paid
plan from www.fastmail.com . 
I know some balk at the idea of a paid email
provider but the advantage is no ads, great support the few times I've
needed to use it. Like GMail I can set up my rules server side and they
sync across clients and devices and their web interface while not maybe
the most intuitive is by and large accessible.
It behaves well whether i"m on a Windows based or apple based device and
also gets along with groups.io which sometimes iCloud email tends not to do.
I hope that helps.
Take good care,
Robin
On 10/10/2023 5:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Other than Gmail, are there any reliable email services? I am considering 
changing Internet providers and if I change, I will need to update many 
accounts currently associated with my Internet provider. Thanks.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
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A forworword email that I tried to send from my iPhone. Please read below,eny help wood be greatly aprishated?

[Maurice A. Mines]

Hello, my subject line says it all. I currently am using avast. But it is 
starting to cost some problems. It says there is a file that needs my 
attention. Despite all efforts to get the file deleted the program still 
warrants making email let’s just say, far from being enjoyable. In fact, it’s 
struggle to get anything done at times. What would be a good product to switch 
to? Or should I just uninstall the product? Do a time machine restore and 
reinstall the product? Does anyone on this list? Have any good suggestions is 
what could be helpful, more accessible, and user-friendly? There in mind, 
however that this is my M2 Mac.  so it can’t run on it anything but an M2 
platform because as I’ve noticed there is a difference some software titles no 
problem but others big problem. I hope this email finds everyone well and 
please be aware it is very early here in the Pacific time zone, and I am 
dictating this to my phone, because of the issues that I have mentioned above.  
Also, please be aware that this is the first time I’ve view the new signature 
file so I’m hoping it is understandable. Be well everyone I look forward to 
reading everyone’s responses. 
Sent from my iPhone. 
Email, Nfb, presidentdeafbl...@maurice-amines.com 
 email personal min...@me.com 
. Voice,  text number 661-868-9647.
Fax number  661-449-3746.


President, National Federation of the blind DeafBlind division. IP relay number 
661-249-9715.
Vice President national Federation of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
amateur radio, call sign, kd0iko.

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ios 17 and two voiceOvers

[christopher moore]

Hello,
Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri voice.  
When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My normal voice 
eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.

Anyone else had similar experiences?

Chris

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Re: tabbing issue in e-mail under Ventura

[Dave Carlson]

Tom, for me, no advantage. Since I leave it open, I hear the first several 
lines of a message as I move up the list. Then I can decide  if I want to open 
and read the entire message. Also, it will mark the message as read  so it 
helps with my rules to move them to an appropriate folder automatically. Keeps 
the archives mailbox clean. I have my archives mailbox set to show only unread 
messages.

Dave Carlson
Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician
dgcarlson0...@gmail.com




On Oct 12, 2023, at 3:35 AM, Tom Rash  wrote:

Is there any advantage to hiding that panel for sighted or blind?


> On Oct 11, 2023, at 6:45 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Yes, it is pretty much a visual thing unless the slider is set to a position 
> that closes the panel. Then the panel is non-existent to voiceover or to a 
> visual user.
> - Brad -
> 
> On Oct 11, 2023, at 07:19, Tom Rash  wrote:
> 
> Is that more of a visual thing , or does adjusting that affect what is 
> actually visible to read?
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:36 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> The splitter between the Mailbox table, and the Mailbox list table, 
>> determines how wide the Mailbox table is.
>> Interact with the splitter to adjust.
>> Splitter to the right of the Mailbox list table, will adjust the width of 
>> the Mail Preview area.
>> Again, interact with the splitter to adjust.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 22:25, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks.  I notice a splitter between the mail box table and the messages 
>> table.  There is another splitter just off to the right of the messages 
>> table.  What do those do?
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 2:59 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ray, no need to adjust anything. You can either use quick math or in 
>>> your control and option keys plus right arrow, out of the mailbox table, 
>>> and that will bring you into the Messages table. That's honestly the 
>>> quickest way to do that.
>>> 
 On Oct 8, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  
 wrote:
 
 Okay.
 
 I am running the latest version of Ventura which is all this 2017 Mac book 
 pro will support.
 
 When I first set it up, my e-mail was so configured that I would be in the 
 list of mail boxes and if I wanted to get to messages in a particular box, 
 I just selected the box with the arrow keys and then tabbed once to access 
 the list of messages for that box.  Recently, I did something which means 
 that now, instead of tabbing and back tabbing just once, I now must do it 
 twice.  Any ideas on what I might want to adjust?
 
 Thanks.
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user
 
 
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Re: tabbing issue in e-mail under Ventura

[Brad Snyder]

Not sure which panel you are asking about.
If the Preview panel, I find it to be a disadvantage, because as you navigate 
the Mailbox list, an item is marked a read whether you read it or not.  Simply 
passing over an item in the Mailbox items list view will mark it as read.
If you are asking about the Mailbox table, then you need the panel open to 
access different mailboxes in various accounts.

HTH.

- Brad -



On Oct 12, 2023, at 05:35, Tom Rash  wrote:

Is there any advantage to hiding that panel for sighted or blind?


> On Oct 11, 2023, at 6:45 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Yes, it is pretty much a visual thing unless the slider is set to a position 
> that closes the panel. Then the panel is non-existent to voiceover or to a 
> visual user.
> - Brad -
> 
> On Oct 11, 2023, at 07:19, Tom Rash  wrote:
> 
> Is that more of a visual thing , or does adjusting that affect what is 
> actually visible to read?
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 8:36 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> The splitter between the Mailbox table, and the Mailbox list table, 
>> determines how wide the Mailbox table is.
>> Interact with the splitter to adjust.
>> Splitter to the right of the Mailbox list table, will adjust the width of 
>> the Mail Preview area.
>> Again, interact with the splitter to adjust.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 22:25, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks.  I notice a splitter between the mail box table and the messages 
>> table.  There is another splitter just off to the right of the messages 
>> table.  What do those do?
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user
>> 
>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 2:59 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ray, no need to adjust anything. You can either use quick math or in 
>>> your control and option keys plus right arrow, out of the mailbox table, 
>>> and that will bring you into the Messages table. That's honestly the 
>>> quickest way to do that.
>>> 
 On Oct 8, 2023, at 8:45 PM, Raymond Foret Jr  
 wrote:
 
 Okay.
 
 I am running the latest version of Ventura which is all this 2017 Mac book 
 pro will support.
 
 When I first set it up, my e-mail was so configured that I would be in the 
 list of mail boxes and if I wanted to get to messages in a particular box, 
 I just selected the box with the arrow keys and then tabbed once to access 
 the list of messages for that box.  Recently, I did something which means 
 that now, instead of tabbing and back tabbing just once, I now must do it 
 twice.  Any ideas on what I might want to adjust?
 
 Thanks.
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 Still a very proud Mac, Xfinity Mobile and Apple TV user
 
 
 -- 
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: ios 17 and two voiceOvers

[Jessica Moss]

I have, mine loves to occasionally switch from Alex to Samantha then back 
again.  I just took it as Apple trying to temporarily patch the bug that’s been 
a constant where Alex temporarily would stop speaking until it could be fixed, 
but even if that is the case, I can’t stand the “cover it up” mentality too 
many people have regarding anything, until it gets so bad someone is forced to 
deal with it, and then is 10 times worse and even harder to fix.

> On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:15 AM, christopher moore  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri voice.  
> When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My normal voice 
> eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.
> 
> Anyone else had similar experiences?
> 
> Chris
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: ios 17 and two voiceOvers

[Mary Otten]

Yes. I have the exact same problem with switching between Alex and Samantha. I 
can’t figure out when or why it happens. But when it does, it’s annoying, and 
as you say, voiceover becomes extremely sluggish.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> I have, mine loves to occasionally switch from Alex to Samantha then back 
> again.  I just took it as Apple trying to temporarily patch the bug that’s 
> been a constant where Alex temporarily would stop speaking until it could be 
> fixed, but even if that is the case, I can’t stand the “cover it up” 
> mentality too many people have regarding anything, until it gets so bad 
> someone is forced to deal with it, and then is 10 times worse and even harder 
> to fix.
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:15 AM, christopher moore  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri voice.  
>> When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My normal voice 
>> eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.
>> 
>> Anyone else had similar experiences?
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> --
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
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Re: ios 17 and two voiceOvers

[christopher moore]

OK.  The athreee of us are using Alex.  I just downloaded the compact Nathan 
voice and assigned it to English-US.  Maybe it’s an Alex problem.  

Thanks for your feedback.
Chris

> On Oct 12, 2023, at 11:52 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Yes. I have the exact same problem with switching between Alex and Samantha. 
> I can’t figure out when or why it happens. But when it does, it’s annoying, 
> and as you say, voiceover becomes extremely sluggish.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I have, mine loves to occasionally switch from Alex to Samantha then back 
>> again.  I just took it as Apple trying to temporarily patch the bug that’s 
>> been a constant where Alex temporarily would stop speaking until it could be 
>> fixed, but even if that is the case, I can’t stand the “cover it up” 
>> mentality too many people have regarding anything, until it gets so bad 
>> someone is forced to deal with it, and then is 10 times worse and even 
>> harder to fix.
>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:15 AM, christopher moore  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri voice.  
>>> When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My normal voice 
>>> eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.
>>> 
>>> Anyone else had similar experiences?
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
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Re: Email Providers

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   I'm still trying to work some things out. As to domains, one can buy 
one through iCloud but I will hold off. This is getting too complicated 
for what I want to do.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/11/2023 9:35 PM, joseph hudson wrote:
Oh, how nice I've never done that before. But I also don't have an 
icloud.com email address either.

Joseph Hudson

EmailFaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@twc.com

Connect with me on zoom

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09

On Oct 11, 2023, at 5:24 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


  Upon some information I received, I may be able to create a domain 
in iCloud.com so will look into that since I do have an iCloud address 
and a couple aliases..


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
-Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/11/2023 10:40 AM, joseph hudson wrote:
The only problem with mail.com and I talked with them about it and 
got nowhere. If they don't have an audio capture which is something 
that you need it whenever you try to enable IMAP so that you can be 
able to send and receive from a Mail client in your computer. That 
going to say that the mail.com app and website or mostly accessible. 
But there are still some issues.
On Oct 11, 2023, at 12:20 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:


  What about Mail.com, is that accessible too? Thanks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
-Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/11/2023 5:22 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
I would suggest purchasing a domain name, then associating it with 
an e-mail provider. You can change provider without ever changing 
your e-mail address.

There are plenty of online tutorials to assist in doing it.
I’ve never used Fastmail, but I’ve read positive comments about 
their services elsewhere.
*From: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 on behalf of Robin Frost 


*Date: *Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 20:15
*To: *MacVisionaries 
*Subject: *Re: Email Providers
Hi,
When I left GMail for the bulk of my email activities I went with a 
paid
plan from www.fastmail.com . I know some 
balk at the idea of a paid email

provider but the advantage is no ads, great support the few times I've
needed to use it. Like GMail I can set up my rules server side and they
sync across clients and devices and their web interface while not maybe
the most intuitive is by and large accessible.
It behaves well whether i"m on a Windows based or apple based 
device and
also gets along with groups.io which sometimes iCloud email tends 
not to do.

I hope that helps.
Take good care,
Robin
On 10/10/2023 5:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Other than Gmail, are there any reliable email services? I am 
considering changing Internet providers and if I change, I will 
need to update many accounts currently associated with my Internet 
provider. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com


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Re: Email Providers

[joseph hudson]

Well, good luck on whatever you're gonna do. This is the first I've ever heard 
of being able to buy a domain from icloud.com .
Joseph Hudson

EmailFaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@twc.com

Connect with me on zoom

https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09

> On Oct 12, 2023, at 12:19 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   I'm still trying to work some things out. As to domains, one can buy one 
> through iCloud but I will hold off. This is getting too complicated for what 
> I want to do.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> -Helen Keller
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 10/11/2023 9:35 PM, joseph hudson wrote:
>> Oh, how nice I've never done that before. But I also don't have an 
>> icloud.com email address either.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@twc.com
>> Connect with me on zoom
>> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
>>> On Oct 11, 2023, at 5:24 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Upon some information I received, I may be able to create a domain in 
>>> iCloud.com so will look into that since I do have an iCloud address and a 
>>> couple aliases..
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
>>> -Helen Keller
>>> My e-Mail:
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 10/11/2023 10:40 AM, joseph hudson wrote:
 The only problem with mail.com and I talked with them about it and got 
 nowhere. If they don't have an audio capture which is something that you 
 need it whenever you try to enable IMAP so that you can be able to send 
 and receive from a Mail client in your computer. That going to say that 
 the mail.com app and website or mostly accessible. But there are still 
 some issues.
> On Oct 11, 2023, at 12:20 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   What about Mail.com, is that accessible too? Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> -Helen Keller
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 10/11/2023 5:22 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> I would suggest purchasing a domain name, then associating it with an 
>> e-mail provider. You can change provider without ever changing your 
>> e-mail address.
>> There are plenty of online tutorials to assist in doing it.
>> I’ve never used Fastmail, but I’ve read positive comments about their 
>> services elsewhere.
>> *From: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  on behalf of Robin Frost 
>> 
>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 20:15
>> *To: *MacVisionaries 
>> *Subject: *Re: Email Providers
>> Hi,
>> When I left GMail for the bulk of my email activities I went with a paid
>> plan from www.fastmail.com . I know some balk 
>> at the idea of a paid email
>> provider but the advantage is no ads, great support the few times I've
>> needed to use it. Like GMail I can set up my rules server side and they
>> sync across clients and devices and their web interface while not maybe
>> the most intuitive is by and large accessible.
>> It behaves well whether i"m on a Windows based or apple based device and
>> also gets along with groups.io which sometimes iCloud email tends not to 
>> do.
>> I hope that helps.
>> Take good care,
>> Robin
>> On 10/10/2023 5:41 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Other than Gmail, are there any reliable email services? I am 
>>> considering changing Internet providers and if I change, I will need to 
>>> update many accounts currently associated with my Internet provider. 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
>>>  -Helen Keller
>>> My e-Mail:
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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Downloading apps that work with an older Mac version.

['Nancy Badger' via MacVisionaries]

Hi everyone,
My husband recently bought me a computer that will not upgrade any further than 
High Sierra. I want to download older versions of pages, Keynote, and chrome, 
so that they would work with High Sierra. Does anyone know if this is possible 
or how to do it?
Thanks very much.
Nancy. 

Sent from my iPhone

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iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 15 Series

[M. Taylor]

Hello All,

Well, I have been working with a 15 Plus for over a week. I have truly been
putting it through it proverbial paces and I can tell you that the device
heats up far faster and far warmer than does my beloved 14 Pro Max.

It's really quite interesting as I understand that the 15 Plus is just a 14
series inside that titanium case.  Is this true?

Regardless, with only a screen protector installed and using a cheap $10
case I purchased at the Apple store, using the device for any uninterrupted
length of time when performing longer tasks such as performing system
restores, lengthy GPS navigation, App updates (over 30 or so at a time) the
phone really heats up.  I'm not saying it is heating to a dangerous level
but I am saying that it is heating up so much and so fast that I have
decided to not purchase a 15 Pro Max, this year.

Of course I am comparing the 15 Plus with my beloved 14 Pro Max with the
same level of screen brightness.

Okay, just thought I would pass this along.

Keep in mind, this is just my experience:  Your milage may vary.

I hope you are all doing well.

Mark


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RE: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 15 Series

[matthew dyer]

Mark,  Just wondering, but, Have you upgraded to 17.0.3?  This is supposed to 
help wityh the heating issue.  This was all over the mac roomers and apple 
sites reasontly. B 

Matthew



-Original Message-
From: M. Taylor  On Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 2:12 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 
15 Series

Hello All,

Well, I have been working with a 15 Plus for over a week. I have truly been
putting it through it proverbial paces and I can tell you that the device
heats up far faster and far warmer than does my beloved 14 Pro Max.

It's really quite interesting as I understand that the 15 Plus is just a 14
series inside that titanium case.  Is this true?

Regardless, with only a screen protector installed and using a cheap $10
case I purchased at the Apple store, using the device for any uninterrupted
length of time when performing longer tasks such as performing system
restores, lengthy GPS navigation, App updates (over 30 or so at a time) the
phone really heats up.  I'm not saying it is heating to a dangerous level
but I am saying that it is heating up so much and so fast that I have
decided to not purchase a 15 Pro Max, this year.

Of course I am comparing the 15 Plus with my beloved 14 Pro Max with the
same level of screen brightness.

Okay, just thought I would pass this along.

Keep in mind, this is just my experience:  Your milage may vary.

I hope you are all doing well.

Mark


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Re: ios 17 and two voiceOvers

[Gabe Griffith]

Hi 

I'm also using Alex and have experienced this issue. I agree with what 
Christopher said that it is probably a bug within Alex. 

Gabe 



Gabe Griffith 
President, California Council of the Blind 
(925)222-5762
gabe.griff...@ccbnet.org


> On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:18 AM, christopher moore  wrote:
> 
> OK.  The athreee of us are using Alex.  I just downloaded the compact Nathan 
> voice and assigned it to English-US.  Maybe it’s an Alex problem.  
> 
> Thanks for your feedback.
> Chris
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 11:52 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. I have the exact same problem with switching between Alex and Samantha. 
>> I can’t figure out when or why it happens. But when it does, it’s annoying, 
>> and as you say, voiceover becomes extremely sluggish.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 12, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Jessica Moss  
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have, mine loves to occasionally switch from Alex to Samantha then back 
>>> again.  I just took it as Apple trying to temporarily patch the bug that’s 
>>> been a constant where Alex temporarily would stop speaking until it could 
>>> be fixed, but even if that is the case, I can’t stand the “cover it up” 
>>> mentality too many people have regarding anything, until it gets so bad 
>>> someone is forced to deal with it, and then is 10 times worse and even 
>>> harder to fix.
>>> 
 On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:15 AM, christopher moore  
 wrote:
 
 Hello,
 Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri voice. 
  When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My normal 
 voice eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.
 
 Anyone else had similar experiences?
 
 Chris
 
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 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/0E1199AE-57B3-46CB-AD6D-828125E3083E%40gmail.com.
>> 
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Re: Fantastical

[Michael Babcock]

Hi!

I’ve also had this issue Jürgen.

My friend Damashe suggested that I use the mini calendar, control+option+space 
and then choose from the event list.

Thanks for your email.

best
Michael - KJ7PAZ
Payown Media, LLC

> On Oct 11, 2023, at 12:22 AM, Jürgen Fleger  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is anyone using Fantastical? I wonder whether it’s possible to open an event 
> from the grid in month view. I’m only able to open an event from the events 
> list in the Sidebar.
> 
> ;Thanks and all the best
> Jürgen
> 
> 
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RE: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 15 Series

['Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries]

Bugs leading to heating issues were reputedly fixed in iOS 17.0.3.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of matthew dyer
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 4:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on 
iPhone 15 Series

Mark,  Just wondering, but, Have you upgraded to 17.0.3?  This is supposed to 
help wityh the heating issue.  This was all over the mac roomers and apple 
sites reasontly. B 

Matthew



-Original Message-
From: M. Taylor  On Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 2:12 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 
15 Series

Hello All,

Well, I have been working with a 15 Plus for over a week. I have truly been 
putting it through it proverbial paces and I can tell you that the device heats 
up far faster and far warmer than does my beloved 14 Pro Max.

It's really quite interesting as I understand that the 15 Plus is just a 14 
series inside that titanium case.  Is this true?

Regardless, with only a screen protector installed and using a cheap $10 case I 
purchased at the Apple store, using the device for any uninterrupted length of 
time when performing longer tasks such as performing system restores, lengthy 
GPS navigation, App updates (over 30 or so at a time) the phone really heats 
up.  I'm not saying it is heating to a dangerous level but I am saying that it 
is heating up so much and so fast that I have decided to not purchase a 15 Pro 
Max, this year.

Of course I am comparing the 15 Plus with my beloved 14 Pro Max with the same 
level of screen brightness.

Okay, just thought I would pass this along.

Keep in mind, this is just my experience:  Your milage may vary.

I hope you are all doing well.

Mark


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Re: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 15 Series

[Brad Snyder]

I have a regular 15 Pro, and the only heating issue I experienced was right 
after setting up the device from an encrypted backup.
The iPhone was hot for about 3 hours, and then heat went away, and that was 
before the 17.0.3 update.
Absolutely no heating issue since.
I think this is a solid device, and definitely not a 14 Pro disguised as a 15 
Pro.
A comparison of the specs will confirm this. 

- Brad -



On Oct 12, 2023, at 18:30, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Bugs leading to heating issues were reputedly fixed in iOS 17.0.3.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of matthew dyer
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 4:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on 
iPhone 15 Series

Mark,  Just wondering, but, Have you upgraded to 17.0.3?  This is supposed to 
help wityh the heating issue.  This was all over the mac roomers and apple 
sites reasontly. B 

Matthew



-Original Message-
From: M. Taylor  On Behalf Of M. Taylor
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2023 2:12 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: iPhone Plus, Definitely Heating It Up: Mark is Taking a Pass on iPhone 
15 Series

Hello All,

Well, I have been working with a 15 Plus for over a week. I have truly been 
putting it through it proverbial paces and I can tell you that the device heats 
up far faster and far warmer than does my beloved 14 Pro Max.

It's really quite interesting as I understand that the 15 Plus is just a 14 
series inside that titanium case.  Is this true?

Regardless, with only a screen protector installed and using a cheap $10 case I 
purchased at the Apple store, using the device for any uninterrupted length of 
time when performing longer tasks such as performing system restores, lengthy 
GPS navigation, App updates (over 30 or so at a time) the phone really heats 
up.  I'm not saying it is heating to a dangerous level but I am saying that it 
is heating up so much and so fast that I have decided to not purchase a 15 Pro 
Max, this year.

Of course I am comparing the 15 Plus with my beloved 14 Pro Max with the same 
level of screen brightness.

Okay, just thought I would pass this along.

Keep in mind, this is just my experience:  Your milage may vary.

I hope you are all doing well.

Mark


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T

Fastmail Issue

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Decided to go with fastmail. Added my new account to Thunderbird on 
Windows, works fine.


   Not on the iPhone. the IMAP/SMTP settings are good. But the first 
error was something like "password authentication is not supported". 
Both IMAP and SMTP have my password entered. Is this correct? If now, 
what should I check? Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Re: Fastmail Issue

[Robin Frost]

Hi,

Did you use the QR code to download the profile and let it set it up 
that way; or did you generate an app specific password as you did for 
your computer?


It seems to prefer the set up using the qr code and profile download on 
the phone. At least that's what's always worked here.


Take good care,

Robin


On 10/12/2023 7:48 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Decided to go with fastmail. Added my new account to Thunderbird on 
Windows, works fine.


   Not on the iPhone. the IMAP/SMTP settings are good. But the first 
error was something like "password authentication is not supported". 
Both IMAP and SMTP have my password entered. Is this correct? If now, 
what should I check? Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com



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Re: Fastmail Issue

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

  I created the password. How would I do this QR code? Am assuming 
the profile is good to go, right?  The iPad is having the same problem.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/12/2023 6:47 PM, Robin Frost wrote:

Hi,

Did you use the QR code to download the profile and let it set it up 
that way; or did you generate an app specific password as you did for 
your computer?


It seems to prefer the set up using the qr code and profile download on 
the phone. At least that's what's always worked here.


Take good care,

Robin


On 10/12/2023 7:48 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:
Decided to go with fastmail. Added my new account to Thunderbird on 
Windows, works fine.


   Not on the iPhone. the IMAP/SMTP settings are good. But the first 
error was something like "password authentication is not supported". 
Both IMAP and SMTP have my password entered. Is this correct? If now, 
what should I check? Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
 -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com





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Re: ios 17 and two voiceOvers

['Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries]

I use Serena Enhanced but Daniel keeps butting in on my watch Series 9 here in 
UK
HARRY

> On 12 Oct 2023, at 22:55, Gabe Griffith  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'm also using Alex and have experienced this issue. I agree with what 
> Christopher said that it is probably a bug within Alex.
> 
> Gabe
> 
> 
> 
> Gabe Griffith
> President, California Council of the Blind
> (925)222-5762
> gabe.griff...@ccbnet.org
> 
> 
>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:18 AM, christopher moore  wrote:
>> 
>> OK.  The athreee of us are using Alex.  I just downloaded the compact 
>> Nathan voice and assigned it to English-US.  Maybe it’s an Alex problem.  
>> 
>> Thanks for your feedback.
>> Chris
>> 
 On Oct 12, 2023, at 11:52 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. I have the exact same problem with switching between Alex and 
>>> Samantha. I can’t figure out when or why it happens. But when it does, it’s 
>>> annoying, and as you say, voiceover becomes extremely sluggish.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Oct 12, 2023, at 7:43 AM, Jessica Moss  
> wrote:
 
 I have, mine loves to occasionally switch from Alex to Samantha then back 
 again.  I just took it as Apple trying to temporarily patch the bug that’s 
 been a constant where Alex temporarily would stop speaking until it could 
 be fixed, but even if that is the case, I can’t stand the “cover it up” 
 mentality too many people have regarding anything, until it gets so bad 
 someone is forced to deal with it, and then is 10 times worse and even 
 harder to fix.
 
> On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:15 AM, christopher moore  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri 
> voice.  When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My 
> normal voice eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.
> 
> Anyone else had similar experiences?
> 
> Chris
> 
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>>> 
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