RE: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Simon A Fogarty]

Or your mac,

They speak words but don’t under stand what the words actually mean.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2020 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

Hi Eric,
I have the advantage of having access to two machines and have only noticed 
this on my one. I might see if I can get hold of Apple accessibility and see if 
I can give them remote access to my machine  so they can see what is going on.  
.   shame that we haven[’t got Apple stores in New Zealand or I would have gone 
into store to show them what is happening.. And the retail store I got my Mac 
from wouldn’t understand VoiceOver anyway.


On 4/05/2020, at 14:13, Eric Caron 
mailto:eric.caro...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Petrus,

Yes, I brought this up earlier.

For me it works sometimes.  If not working what happens is I 
press it and Voice over just keeps talking.  I have to restart Voice over and 
then the Control key will work correctly. Unfortunately it doesn’t last all 
that long and I’m back to turning voice over off and on again.

It is nice when it works.

Best of luck.

Eric Caron



On May 3, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Petrus Tuerlings 
mailto:petrus.t...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I just tested it again, I can report that I am  most definitely  pressing it 
once. I’ve always had problems with the control key on this machine, first 
thing in the morning once I’ve opened my lid and start using the computer it 
takes about three or four presses of the control key before it silences 
VoiceOver. Almost like it needs to warm up. But when I test it on my wife’s 
MacBook it behaves as it should every time. It’s just the control key on my 
machine that refuses to play nicely.


On 4/05/2020, at 13:09, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

it is, works everytime, but you need to just press it once. if you press it 
again it will resume. you must be pressing it twice.

On May 3, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Petrus Tuerlings 
mailto:petrus.t...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,
I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was a 
solution?
If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key to 
shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for about 
five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I press the 
control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five seconds or so. So I 
just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it quiet. Suppose I could mute 
VoiceOver but I thought the control key was the way to do it.


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Sent from Petrus' MacBook


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Re: Endnote

[Ian Harrison]

Hi,

I have been using it for my degree course and might be able to give some sort 
of help.  If you want you can contact me off list at ihcla...@gmail.com

Happy to try and help but I am no expert at all.

regards,
Ian

> On 4 May 2020, at 00:03, muhammad babar Shahzad  wrote:
> 
> Friends,
> Is anyone using the endnote referencing software with Mac? I would be 
> thankful for any tips to use it.
> Thanks,
> Muhammad.
> 
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Re: Home security cameras?

[Ramy Moustafa Saber رامي مصطفى صابر]

Hi all:

I do not have a Home kit, but i installed cameras with NVR,THe model is Called 
NVSEE, do not know if i can make them accessible or not? how can i know ?

> On May 4, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Ring has all kinds of security cameras, not just doorbells.
> It works with an iOS app and maybe Home kit too.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2020, at 23:41, KliphnShari Miller  > wrote:
> 
> I heard ring only works with Alexa, not HomeKit.  Also I heard it is a door 
> bell not a security camera featured device.  Yes you can see who is at your 
> front door, but beyond that I wouldn’t call it a security camera.  As for 
> your 2nd choice, it works great according to the reviews.  Plus it is 
> wireless and the battery lasts a entire year.  Only draw back is make sure 
> the base station is close to your router, otherwise it will keep dropping the 
> connection.  Haven’t used it, but this is what the reviews say.
> Come checkout the Stur it up PodCast, where we discuss various topics 
> including technology, sports, and family everyday life.  We have special 
> guests, and is always family friendly
> Listen to us on
> Apple
> Spotify
> Anchor or the podcast service of your choice.
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> Follow us on Twitter
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> And follow our blog for updates and announcements
> 
> 
>> On May 3, 2020, at 12:34 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I know this has come up before, but I don't remember what the consensus was.
>> 
>> My husband and I want to install a security camera. Obviously one choice 
>> would be to go with Ring. My husband also found one called Eufy, which 
>> claims to work with home kit. Questions:
>> 1. Anyone using Ring? Are you happy with it? Does it play nice with Homekit? 
>> Is the app accessible?
>> 2. Anyone using Eufy? Same questions as in no. 1
>> 3. Any other options that any of you would recommend?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Composing a Long tweet

[Ramy Moustafa Saber رامي مصطفى صابر]

Hi all:

Still need a reply for that


> On May 3, 2020, at 2:04 PM, ⁨Ramy Moustafa Saber رامي مصطفى صابر⁩ 
> <⁨ramy.moustaf...@gmail.com⁩> wrote:
> 
> Hi all:
> 
> on My Iphone, How can i compose a long tweet? I found tweets end with Follows 
> or something, indicating that the tweet is not finished, is there an app that 
> can do that?i can not type a long tweet  and count the letters before sending.
> or are there Ideas we can do inside the native app on IOS?
> thanks in advance 
> 

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Re: Learning Terminal

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Have you tried to install brltty on the mac for braille use in terminal?
I am a bit unsure on how to install it in terminal.
There are to many components for my brain.
/A

> 3 maj 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Thanks so much for this info, Janina. I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned 
> this or not, but when you get into commands that do more than simple, one 
> line responses, you’ll probably find that VoiceOver… Just doesn’t do so well 
> in the Terminal. Then, you may want to check  out TDSR, the terminal screen 
> reader.
> 
> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> 
> If you become interested in other Linux accessibility stuff as well, you 
> could look into Emacs, and Emacspeak. I’ve done a guide on getting those set 
> up:
> 
> https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043 
> 
> 
> Homebrew, from:
> 
> https://brew.sh 
> 
> Will give you access to many more packages (programs) for the Terminal, and 
> you can use the “brew cask” commands to install even Mac apps, like Google 
> Chrome or Github Desktop, if you ever get into that.
> 
> I know, a lot of these are resources that you may use when you’re more 
> comfortable with the basics, but I figured I’d give them out now, so you have 
> a path to follow when you’re done getting started.
> 
> Journey before Destination! :) 
> 
>> On May 3, 2020, at 12:49 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know about the particular podcast or the book that was suggested
>> by others. I'd suggest checking out those resources, though. Any
>> starting point should help.
>> 
>> I do have some more generic advice that will serve you forever, because
>> you'll never learn everything there is to know about the Terminal. No
>> one does.
>> 
>> So, the question quickly becomes: "How do I do X?"
>> 
>> For that on line searches are very useful. I frequently open a Google
>> search and put in +osx to get Apple specific results for the remainder
>> of my querry.
>> 
>> If I get too many point and click results, I go back to my search and
>> add +cli to my querry. I rarely need go any further for finding Terminal
>> oriented help on whatever the particular task.
>> 
>> I should also note that Terminal now defaults to the Z Shell. Therefore,
>> any resource you can find about zsh is likely to be helpful, even if
>> it's about zsh on Linux. Now, there's a lot of colorization available in
>> zsh commands. Just skip all that stuff irrelevant to you.
>> 
>> Lastly, you should know about the man command. This is shorhand for
>> manual. An example of how to use this command might be having the
>> Terminal tell you all the ways you can use the cp command:
>> 
>> man cp
>> 
>> You will never outgrow your need for the man command.
>> 
>> Writing all this reminds me of one of my favorite life experiences, when
>> first I learned to use Unix command lines. Those where the early days of
>> on line shell access that we accessed vial dialup modem. I was familiar
>> with menu driven systems like Compuserve and Delphi, but Netcom, when I
>> logged in prompted only:
>> 
>> [netcom]$
>> 
>> This I knew from nothing what to do. Where was my menu?
>> 
>> So, I called Netcom. just by chance I got Bob Reager the founder on the
>> phone--yes, those were different days.
>> 
>> So, I started my conversation with Bob, "What do I do?"
>> 
>> Bob said: "We sent you a manual."
>> 
>> I said: "I'm blind, can't read it."
>> 
>> Bob said: "Oh wow! Do you know the man command and maybe the rn
>> command?"
>> 
>> I said: "No, never heard of them?"
>> 
>> Bob said: "OK, just type man man and maybe also man man -k. Then you can
>> also just type rn and press enter."
>> 
>> I said: "cool, if I get stuck, may I call you for more direction?"
>> 
>> Bob said: "Yes, as long as you don't abuse it, you may call me."
>> 
>> Guess what? I never called him again.
>> 
>> rn is dead. It was a usenet news reader, and usenet has died. Instead we
>> have this and similar email list groups (not so available 30 years ago).
>> 
>> But, I love that those two commands took me everywhere from that point.
>> And, yes, I still use man all the time.
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> 'Kristeen Hughes' via MacVisionaries writes:
>>> The subject says it. I want to learn more about this powerful app, and I'm 
>>> not sure how this is best done. Does anyone have book recommendations or 
>>> places on the web?
>>> 
>>> Kristeen
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator i

Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but not when 
i use my swedish voice.
Not sure why but thats how it is here.
/A

> 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings :
> 
> Hi all,
> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was a 
> solution?
> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key to 
> shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for about 
> five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I press the 
> control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five seconds or so. So I 
> just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it quiet. Suppose I could mute 
> VoiceOver but I thought the control key was the way to do it.
> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
> 
> 
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>  
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> .

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Re: Learning Terminal

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

I did once, but now I tried it a few months ago, and it didn’t work. Yeah, I’d 
just use Linux for BRLTTY. There are a lot of components to get right for 
BRLTTY on the Mac.

> On May 4, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Have you tried to install brltty on the mac for braille use in terminal?
> I am a bit unsure on how to install it in terminal.
> There are to many components for my brain.
> /A
> 
>> 3 maj 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:
>> 
>> Thanks so much for this info, Janina. I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned 
>> this or not, but when you get into commands that do more than simple, one 
>> line responses, you’ll probably find that VoiceOver… Just doesn’t do so well 
>> in the Terminal. Then, you may want to check  out TDSR, the terminal screen 
>> reader.
>> 
>> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>> 
>> If you become interested in other Linux accessibility stuff as well, you 
>> could look into Emacs, and Emacspeak. I’ve done a guide on getting those set 
>> up:
>> 
>> https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043 
>> 
>> 
>> Homebrew, from:
>> 
>> https://brew.sh 
>> 
>> Will give you access to many more packages (programs) for the Terminal, and 
>> you can use the “brew cask” commands to install even Mac apps, like Google 
>> Chrome or Github Desktop, if you ever get into that.
>> 
>> I know, a lot of these are resources that you may use when you’re more 
>> comfortable with the basics, but I figured I’d give them out now, so you 
>> have a path to follow when you’re done getting started.
>> 
>> Journey before Destination! :) 
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2020, at 12:49 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know about the particular podcast or the book that was suggested
>>> by others. I'd suggest checking out those resources, though. Any
>>> starting point should help.
>>> 
>>> I do have some more generic advice that will serve you forever, because
>>> you'll never learn everything there is to know about the Terminal. No
>>> one does.
>>> 
>>> So, the question quickly becomes: "How do I do X?"
>>> 
>>> For that on line searches are very useful. I frequently open a Google
>>> search and put in +osx to get Apple specific results for the remainder
>>> of my querry.
>>> 
>>> If I get too many point and click results, I go back to my search and
>>> add +cli to my querry. I rarely need go any further for finding Terminal
>>> oriented help on whatever the particular task.
>>> 
>>> I should also note that Terminal now defaults to the Z Shell. Therefore,
>>> any resource you can find about zsh is likely to be helpful, even if
>>> it's about zsh on Linux. Now, there's a lot of colorization available in
>>> zsh commands. Just skip all that stuff irrelevant to you.
>>> 
>>> Lastly, you should know about the man command. This is shorhand for
>>> manual. An example of how to use this command might be having the
>>> Terminal tell you all the ways you can use the cp command:
>>> 
>>> man cp
>>> 
>>> You will never outgrow your need for the man command.
>>> 
>>> Writing all this reminds me of one of my favorite life experiences, when
>>> first I learned to use Unix command lines. Those where the early days of
>>> on line shell access that we accessed vial dialup modem. I was familiar
>>> with menu driven systems like Compuserve and Delphi, but Netcom, when I
>>> logged in prompted only:
>>> 
>>> [netcom]$
>>> 
>>> This I knew from nothing what to do. Where was my menu?
>>> 
>>> So, I called Netcom. just by chance I got Bob Reager the founder on the
>>> phone--yes, those were different days.
>>> 
>>> So, I started my conversation with Bob, "What do I do?"
>>> 
>>> Bob said: "We sent you a manual."
>>> 
>>> I said: "I'm blind, can't read it."
>>> 
>>> Bob said: "Oh wow! Do you know the man command and maybe the rn
>>> command?"
>>> 
>>> I said: "No, never heard of them?"
>>> 
>>> Bob said: "OK, just type man man and maybe also man man -k. Then you can
>>> also just type rn and press enter."
>>> 
>>> I said: "cool, if I get stuck, may I call you for more direction?"
>>> 
>>> Bob said: "Yes, as long as you don't abuse it, you may call me."
>>> 
>>> Guess what? I never called him again.
>>> 
>>> rn is dead. It was a usenet news reader, and usenet has died. Instead we
>>> have this and similar email list groups (not so available 30 years ago).
>>> 
>>> But, I love that those two commands took me everywhere from that point.
>>> And, yes, I still use man all the time.
>>> 
>>> Good luck!
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Janina
>>> 
>>> 'Kristeen Hughes' via MacVisionaries writes:
 The subject says it. I want to learn more about this powerful app, and I'm 
 not sure how this is best done. Does anyone have book recommendations or 
 places on the web?
>>

Re: Logic Pro?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Well, i have it here and have just checked it out.
But i don’t have any experience with it.
I wish i had because i really would love to use it.
/A

> 4 maj 2020 kl. 06:36 skrev KliphnShari Miller :
> 
> So, Logic Pro has a free trial for 90 days, does anyone have any experience 
> with this app?  How do you use this with the Mac keyboard, or do you have to 
> connect external devices? thanks.
> Come checkout the Stur it up PodCast, where we discuss various topics 
> including technology, sports, and family everyday life.  We have special 
> guests, and is always family friendly
> Listen to us on
> Apple
> Spotify
> Anchor or the podcast service of your choice.
> We want you the listener involved! so  send us   an email with your 
> questions, comments, topic suggestion, or to even be a guest on the show.
> Follow us on Twitter
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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Eric Caron]

It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech in 
all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me something and 
the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on a phone call, or 
when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 

I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the control 
key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second press starts 
speech where it left off. 

I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  

Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.

I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.

Eric Caron 



> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but not 
> when i use my swedish voice.
> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
> /A
> 
>> 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings > >:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was a 
>> solution?
>> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key 
>> to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for 
>> about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I 
>> press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five seconds 
>> or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it quiet. Suppose 
>> I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key was the way to do it.
>> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
>> 
>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>  
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Re: Learning Terminal

[dan d.]

When in terminal make sure to set interact with text.  If there are multiple 
ommand output lines one can use vo+up and down keyss to
review the output line by line.  Vo+a will read from cursor down.

Many commands are shortened versions,ie. cp for copy, mv for move and so forth. 
 Often using a commmand with a -h or --help following a
command using a space after the command; will provide useful info as to 
controling what the command does.  For example; cp -h will show the
various forms of action the copy command will do.

This web page can be a useful resource to discover what commands exist and what 
they do.  For example the link for the cp command has this:

cpCopy one or more files to another location

Choosing that link provides detailed info for the command.

An A-Z Index of the Apple macOS command line

https://ss64.com/osx/

On Sun, 3 May 2020, 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries wrote:

> Thanks so much for this info, Janina. I???m not sure if anyone has mentioned 
> this or not, but when you get into commands that do more than simple, one 
> line responses, you???ll probably find that VoiceOver??? Just doesn???t do so 
> well in the Terminal. Then, you may want to check  out TDSR, the terminal 
> screen reader.
>
> https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
>
> If you become interested in other Linux accessibility stuff as well, you 
> could look into Emacs, and Emacspeak. I???ve done a guide on getting those 
> set up:
>
> https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043 
> 
>
> Homebrew, from:
>
> https://brew.sh 
>
> Will give you access to many more packages (programs) for the Terminal, and 
> you can use the ???brew cask??? commands to install even Mac apps, like 
> Google Chrome or Github Desktop, if you ever get into that.
>
> I know, a lot of these are resources that you may use when you???re more 
> comfortable with the basics, but I figured I???d give them out now, so you 
> have a path to follow when you???re done getting started.
>
> Journey before Destination! :)
>
> > On May 3, 2020, at 12:49 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > I don't know about the particular podcast or the book that was suggested
> > by others. I'd suggest checking out those resources, though. Any
> > starting point should help.
> >
> > I do have some more generic advice that will serve you forever, because
> > you'll never learn everything there is to know about the Terminal. No
> > one does.
> >
> > So, the question quickly becomes: "How do I do X?"
> >
> > For that on line searches are very useful. I frequently open a Google
> > search and put in +osx to get Apple specific results for the remainder
> > of my querry.
> >
> > If I get too many point and click results, I go back to my search and
> > add +cli to my querry. I rarely need go any further for finding Terminal
> > oriented help on whatever the particular task.
> >
> > I should also note that Terminal now defaults to the Z Shell. Therefore,
> > any resource you can find about zsh is likely to be helpful, even if
> > it's about zsh on Linux. Now, there's a lot of colorization available in
> > zsh commands. Just skip all that stuff irrelevant to you.
> >
> > Lastly, you should know about the man command. This is shorhand for
> > manual. An example of how to use this command might be having the
> > Terminal tell you all the ways you can use the cp command:
> >
> > man cp
> >
> > You will never outgrow your need for the man command.
> >
> > Writing all this reminds me of one of my favorite life experiences, when
> > first I learned to use Unix command lines. Those where the early days of
> > on line shell access that we accessed vial dialup modem. I was familiar
> > with menu driven systems like Compuserve and Delphi, but Netcom, when I
> > logged in prompted only:
> >
> > [netcom]$
> >
> > This I knew from nothing what to do. Where was my menu?
> >
> > So, I called Netcom. just by chance I got Bob Reager the founder on the
> > phone--yes, those were different days.
> >
> > So, I started my conversation with Bob, "What do I do?"
> >
> > Bob said: "We sent you a manual."
> >
> > I said: "I'm blind, can't read it."
> >
> > Bob said: "Oh wow! Do you know the man command and maybe the rn
> > command?"
> >
> > I said: "No, never heard of them?"
> >
> > Bob said: "OK, just type man man and maybe also man man -k. Then you can
> > also just type rn and press enter."
> >
> > I said: "cool, if I get stuck, may I call you for more direction?"
> >
> > Bob said: "Yes, as long as you don't abuse it, you may call me."
> >
> > Guess what? I never called him again.
> >
> > rn is dead. It was a usenet news reader, and usenet has died. Instead we
> > have this and similar email list groups (not so available 30 years ago).
> >
> > But, I love that those two commands took me everywhere from that point.
> > And, yes, I still use man all the 

Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Pete De Vasto]

Petrus,

Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, one 
of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control key does 
exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to either her, or 
maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?

Pete De Vasto

> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron  wrote:
> 
> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech in 
> all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me something and 
> the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on a phone call, or 
> when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
> 
> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the control 
> key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second press starts 
> speech where it left off. 
> 
> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
> 
> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
> 
>   I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
> 
> Eric Caron 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but not 
>> when i use my swedish voice.
>> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings >> >:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was 
>>> a solution?
>>> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key 
>>> to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for 
>>> about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I 
>>> press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five seconds 
>>> or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it quiet. 
>>> Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key was the way to 
>>> do it.
>>> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
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>>> .
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Question About E-mails from Ramy

[Pete De Vasto]

Hello all,

I have been debating for a long time whether or not to bring this up, and I so 
strongly hope that I do not offend anyone by what I’m about to say. Whenever I 
see an e-mail from Ramy, VO reads a rather long string of what it calls Arabic 
characters, and it takes a bit longer to read through those messages. I am sure 
there is very good reason for having these characters there, and by no means 
would I want you to eliminate them. However, I was wondering if others on the 
list have noticed this behavior, and if there’s a way I can tell VO to ignore 
these characters. My VO punctuation preference is set to “some”, so I guess 
that means it’s not considering these to be punctuation. Any thoughts on this?

Many thanks, and again I am just very curious and can work around the 
characters if needed.

Pete De Vasto

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Re: Question About E-mails from Ramy

[Dave Carlson]

Happens to me on my iPhone but not on the Mac. Likely you just need to turn off 
your automatic language detection.


Dave Carlson
Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian




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Re: Question About E-mails from Ramy

[Jessica Moss]

I have, but unfortunately have no information as to whether or not they can be 
ignored, but agree that reading them can be cumbersome with Voiceover on the 
Mac.  Strangely enough though, I’ve found that when those same messages come 
through on my IPHone, those aren’t displaying there, only a secondary voice 
that reads his name with it’s proper accent, which makes it easier to bypass 
things and be able to read the subject line of the message itself.

> On May 4, 2020, at 11:04 AM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I have been debating for a long time whether or not to bring this up, and I 
> so strongly hope that I do not offend anyone by what I’m about to say. 
> Whenever I see an e-mail from Ramy, VO reads a rather long string of what it 
> calls Arabic characters, and it takes a bit longer to read through those 
> messages. I am sure there is very good reason for having these characters 
> there, and by no means would I want you to eliminate them. However, I was 
> wondering if others on the list have noticed this behavior, and if there’s a 
> way I can tell VO to ignore these characters. My VO punctuation preference is 
> set to “some”, so I guess that means it’s not considering these to be 
> punctuation. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> Many thanks, and again I am just very curious and can work around the 
> characters if needed.
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, I am using Samantha and the control key does not work for silencing. I 
thought it was because I had updated to catalina. it used to work just fine but 
after catalina control key never worked again.
patrick 

> On May 4, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
> 
> Petrus,
> 
> Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, one 
> of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control key does 
> exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to either her, or 
> maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron > > wrote:
>> 
>> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech in 
>> all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me something and 
>> the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on a phone call, or 
>> when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
>> 
>> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the control 
>> key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second press 
>> starts speech where it left off. 
>> 
>> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
>> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
>> 
>> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
>> 
>>  I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but not 
>>> when i use my swedish voice.
>>> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
>>> /A
>>> 
 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings >>> >:
 
 Hi all,
 I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was 
 a solution?
 If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key 
 to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for 
 about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I 
 press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five 
 seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it 
 quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key was 
 the way to do it.
 Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
 
 
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 Visionaries list.
  
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 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
  
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 mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
 can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
  
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 .
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Question About E-mails from Ramy

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I just open the message as the Arabic characters are part of the Subject line.  
Once you open the message, it should just read the content of the message 
instead.  For me, the iPhone actually says something in Arabic, but the Mac 
just reads out the characters.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On May 4, 2020, at 9:09 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Happens to me on my iPhone but not on the Mac. Likely you just need to turn 
> off your automatic language detection.
> 
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Engineer, Pioneer, Farfar, Woodworker, Musician, and Oregonian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Endnote

[Julie Rattray]

Hi,

I use it a little to so can also try to help 

> On 4 May 2020, at 10:53, Ian Harrison  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have been using it for my degree course and might be able to give some sort 
> of help.  If you want you can contact me off list at ihcla...@gmail.com
> 
> Happy to try and help but I am no expert at all.
> 
> regards,
> Ian
> 
>> On 4 May 2020, at 00:03, muhammad babar Shahzad  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Friends,
>> Is anyone using the endnote referencing software with Mac? I would be 
>> thankful for any tips to use it.
>> Thanks,
>> Muhammad.
>> 
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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Greg Wocher]

Hello,
I notice that control does not work very often to silence speech. It does not 
matter what voice I am using. Sometimes when I hit control it will even start 
speaking in a different voice than the one I am using. It is one of the most 
annoying frustrations I have with VoiceOver.

Greg Wocher


> On May 4, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I am using Samantha and the control key does not work for silencing. I 
> thought it was because I had updated to catalina. it used to work just fine 
> but after catalina control key never worked again.
> patrick 
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Pete De Vasto > > wrote:
>> 
>> Petrus,
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, 
>> one of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control key 
>> does exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to either her, 
>> or maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
>> 
>> Pete De Vasto
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech 
>>> in all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me something 
>>> and the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on a phone 
>>> call, or when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
>>> 
>>> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the 
>>> control key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second 
>>> press starts speech where it left off. 
>>> 
>>> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
>>> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
>>> 
>>> I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
>>> 
>>> Eric Caron 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi!
 It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but not 
 when i use my swedish voice.
 Not sure why but thats how it is here.
 /A
 
> 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings  >:
> 
> Hi all,
> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there 
> was a solution?
> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control 
> key to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut 
> up for about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many 
> times I press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after 
> five seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep 
> it quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key 
> was the way to do it.
> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
> 
> 
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Re: Question About E-mails from Ramy

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I see them but i think they have to be there.
I just ignore them.
But i use braille.
/A

> 4 maj 2020 kl. 17:04 skrev Pete De Vasto :
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I have been debating for a long time whether or not to bring this up, and I 
> so strongly hope that I do not offend anyone by what I’m about to say. 
> Whenever I see an e-mail from Ramy, VO reads a rather long string of what it 
> calls Arabic characters, and it takes a bit longer to read through those 
> messages. I am sure there is very good reason for having these characters 
> there, and by no means would I want you to eliminate them. However, I was 
> wondering if others on the list have noticed this behavior, and if there’s a 
> way I can tell VO to ignore these characters. My VO punctuation preference is 
> set to “some”, so I guess that means it’s not considering these to be 
> punctuation. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> Many thanks, and again I am just very curious and can work around the 
> characters if needed.
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

That has been my experience too, and I agree, it's very frustrating.
Donna

> On May 4, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Greg Wocher  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I notice that control does not work very often to silence speech. It does not 
> matter what voice I am using. Sometimes when I hit control it will even start 
> speaking in a different voice than the one I am using. It is one of the most 
> annoying frustrations I have with VoiceOver.
> 
> Greg Wocher
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Ford > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, I am using Samantha and the control key does not work for silencing. I 
>> thought it was because I had updated to catalina. it used to work just fine 
>> but after catalina control key never worked again.
>> patrick 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Pete De Vasto >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Petrus,
>>> 
>>> Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, 
>>> one of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control key 
>>> does exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to either 
>>> her, or maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
>>> 
>>> Pete De Vasto
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron >>> > wrote:
 
 It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech 
 in all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me 
 something and the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on a 
 phone call, or when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
 
 I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the 
 control key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second 
 press starts speech where it left off. 
 
 I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
 feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
 
 Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
 
I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
 
 Eric Caron 
 
 
 
> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg  > wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but 
> not when i use my swedish voice.
> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
> /A
> 
>> 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings > >:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there 
>> was a solution?
>> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control 
>> key to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut 
>> up for about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many 
>> times I press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after 
>> five seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep 
>> it quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key 
>> was the way to do it.
>> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
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>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn 
>> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
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> 
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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

When the ctrl key does not work, this is because the VO buffer is busy and the 
normal ctrl key action is not registered.  I just press the Caps-Lock key and 
VO instantly quiets.  The only problem with this method is that VO cannot 
restart from where it left off after pressing this key, but it is stopped.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On May 4, 2020, at 12:21 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> That has been my experience too, and I agree, it's very frustrating.
> Donna
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Greg Wocher > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I notice that control does not work very often to silence speech. It does 
>> not matter what voice I am using. Sometimes when I hit control it will even 
>> start speaking in a different voice than the one I am using. It is one of 
>> the most annoying frustrations I have with VoiceOver.
>> 
>> Greg Wocher
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Ford >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, I am using Samantha and the control key does not work for silencing. I 
>>> thought it was because I had updated to catalina. it used to work just fine 
>>> but after catalina control key never worked again.
>>> patrick 
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Pete De Vasto >>> > wrote:
 
 Petrus,
 
 Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, 
 one of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control 
 key does exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to 
 either her, or maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
 
 Pete De Vasto
 
> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron  > wrote:
> 
> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech 
> in all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me 
> something and the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on 
> a phone call, or when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
> 
> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the 
> control key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second 
> press starts speech where it left off. 
> 
> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
> 
> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
> 
>   I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
> 
> Eric Caron 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but 
>> not when i use my swedish voice.
>> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings >> >:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there 
>>> was a solution?
>>> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control 
>>> key to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut 
>>> up for about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many 
>>> times I press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after 
>>> five seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep 
>>> it quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key 
>>> was the way to do it.
>>> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>> itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn 
>>> - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
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>>> 

Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

['Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries]

Hi Tim,

My experience is that Caps lock works most of the time, but not all of the time.
Cheers,
Donna


> On May 4, 2020, at 1:37 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When the ctrl key does not work, this is because the VO buffer is busy and 
> the normal ctrl key action is not registered.  I just press the Caps-Lock key 
> and VO instantly quiets.  The only problem with this method is that VO cannot 
> restart from where it left off after pressing this key, but it is stopped.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:21 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That has been my experience too, and I agree, it's very frustrating.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Greg Wocher >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I notice that control does not work very often to silence speech. It does 
>>> not matter what voice I am using. Sometimes when I hit control it will even 
>>> start speaking in a different voice than the one I am using. It is one of 
>>> the most annoying frustrations I have with VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi, I am using Samantha and the control key does not work for silencing. I 
 thought it was because I had updated to catalina. it used to work just 
 fine but after catalina control key never worked again.
 patrick 
 
> On May 4, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Pete De Vasto  > wrote:
> 
> Petrus,
> 
> Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, 
> one of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control 
> key does exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to 
> either her, or maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron > > wrote:
>> 
>> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop 
>> speech in all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me 
>> something and the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on 
>> a phone call, or when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
>> 
>> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the 
>> control key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second 
>> press starts speech where it left off. 
>> 
>> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
>> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
>> 
>> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
>> 
>>  I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but 
>>> not when i use my swedish voice.
>>> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
>>> /A
>>> 
 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings >>> >:
 
 Hi all,
 I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there 
 was a solution?
 If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control 
 key to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will 
 shut up for about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter 
 how many times I press the control key VoiceOver will start reading 
 again after five seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down 
 just to keep it quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought 
 the control key was the way to do it.
 Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
 
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
  
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
 itself.
  
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 at: mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
  
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
 

Re: Learning Terminal

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

If that does work, it would only work in the Terminal so using homebrew
would be the way to install. I have not tried this myself.

Best,

Janina

Anders Holmberg writes:
> Hi!
> Have you tried to install brltty on the mac for braille use in terminal?
> I am a bit unsure on how to install it in terminal.
> There are to many components for my brain.
> /A
> 
> > 3 maj 2020 kl. 21:52 skrev 'Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries 
> > :
> > 
> > Thanks so much for this info, Janina. I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned 
> > this or not, but when you get into commands that do more than simple, one 
> > line responses, you’ll probably find that VoiceOver… Just doesn’t do so 
> > well in the Terminal. Then, you may want to check  out TDSR, the terminal 
> > screen reader.
> > 
> > https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr 
> > 
> > If you become interested in other Linux accessibility stuff as well, you 
> > could look into Emacs, and Emacspeak. I’ve done a guide on getting those 
> > set up:
> > 
> > https://gist.github.com/a794a448ccc46e72fca63c932105c043 
> > 
> > 
> > Homebrew, from:
> > 
> > https://brew.sh 
> > 
> > Will give you access to many more packages (programs) for the Terminal, and 
> > you can use the “brew cask” commands to install even Mac apps, like Google 
> > Chrome or Github Desktop, if you ever get into that.
> > 
> > I know, a lot of these are resources that you may use when you’re more 
> > comfortable with the basics, but I figured I’d give them out now, so you 
> > have a path to follow when you’re done getting started.
> > 
> > Journey before Destination! :) 
> > 
> >> On May 3, 2020, at 12:49 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
> >> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >> I don't know about the particular podcast or the book that was suggested
> >> by others. I'd suggest checking out those resources, though. Any
> >> starting point should help.
> >> 
> >> I do have some more generic advice that will serve you forever, because
> >> you'll never learn everything there is to know about the Terminal. No
> >> one does.
> >> 
> >> So, the question quickly becomes: "How do I do X?"
> >> 
> >> For that on line searches are very useful. I frequently open a Google
> >> search and put in +osx to get Apple specific results for the remainder
> >> of my querry.
> >> 
> >> If I get too many point and click results, I go back to my search and
> >> add +cli to my querry. I rarely need go any further for finding Terminal
> >> oriented help on whatever the particular task.
> >> 
> >> I should also note that Terminal now defaults to the Z Shell. Therefore,
> >> any resource you can find about zsh is likely to be helpful, even if
> >> it's about zsh on Linux. Now, there's a lot of colorization available in
> >> zsh commands. Just skip all that stuff irrelevant to you.
> >> 
> >> Lastly, you should know about the man command. This is shorhand for
> >> manual. An example of how to use this command might be having the
> >> Terminal tell you all the ways you can use the cp command:
> >> 
> >> man cp
> >> 
> >> You will never outgrow your need for the man command.
> >> 
> >> Writing all this reminds me of one of my favorite life experiences, when
> >> first I learned to use Unix command lines. Those where the early days of
> >> on line shell access that we accessed vial dialup modem. I was familiar
> >> with menu driven systems like Compuserve and Delphi, but Netcom, when I
> >> logged in prompted only:
> >> 
> >> [netcom]$
> >> 
> >> This I knew from nothing what to do. Where was my menu?
> >> 
> >> So, I called Netcom. just by chance I got Bob Reager the founder on the
> >> phone--yes, those were different days.
> >> 
> >> So, I started my conversation with Bob, "What do I do?"
> >> 
> >> Bob said: "We sent you a manual."
> >> 
> >> I said: "I'm blind, can't read it."
> >> 
> >> Bob said: "Oh wow! Do you know the man command and maybe the rn
> >> command?"
> >> 
> >> I said: "No, never heard of them?"
> >> 
> >> Bob said: "OK, just type man man and maybe also man man -k. Then you can
> >> also just type rn and press enter."
> >> 
> >> I said: "cool, if I get stuck, may I call you for more direction?"
> >> 
> >> Bob said: "Yes, as long as you don't abuse it, you may call me."
> >> 
> >> Guess what? I never called him again.
> >> 
> >> rn is dead. It was a usenet news reader, and usenet has died. Instead we
> >> have this and similar email list groups (not so available 30 years ago).
> >> 
> >> But, I love that those two commands took me everywhere from that point.
> >> And, yes, I still use man all the time.
> >> 
> >> Good luck!
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> 
> >> Janina
> >> 
> >> 'Kristeen Hughes' via MacVisionaries writes:
> >>> The subject says it. I want to learn more about this powerful app, and 
> >>> I'm not sure how this is best done. Does anyone have book recommendations 
> >>> or places

Controlling Audio Output

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi, All:

I'm looking for a way to direct audio output from a particular
application to a particular audio device.

I currently have two audio devices on my Mini, and a third one coming
soon. So, I want certain applications to output to a particular one of
those three devices. I seem to recall seeing this somewhere, but can't
recall where? Did I see this in System Settings? Or was I just dreaming?

Best,

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Sorry Simon,
I’m a bit confused by your reply?

> On 4/05/2020, at 21:23, Simon A Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Or your mac,
>  
> They speak words but don’t under stand what the words actually mean.
>  
> From:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  > On Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
> Sent: Monday, 4 May 2020 2:42 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key
>  
> Hi Eric,
> I have the advantage of having access to two machines and have only noticed 
> this on my one. I might see if I can get hold of Apple accessibility and see 
> if I can give them remote access to my machine  so they can see what is going 
> on.  .   shame that we haven[’t got Apple stores in New Zealand or I would 
> have gone into store to show them what is happening.. And the retail store I 
> got my Mac from wouldn’t understand VoiceOver anyway.  
> 
> 
> On 4/05/2020, at 14:13, Eric Caron  > wrote:
>  
> Hi Petrus,
>  
> Yes, I brought this up earlier. 
>  
> For me it works sometimes.  If not working what happens is I 
> press it and Voice over just keeps talking.  I have to restart Voice over and 
> then the Control key will work correctly. Unfortunately it doesn’t last all 
> that long and I’m back to turning voice over off and on again. 
>  
> It is nice when it works. 
>  
> Best of luck.
>  
> Eric Caron 
>  
> 
> 
> On May 3, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Petrus Tuerlings  > wrote:
>  
> I just tested it again, I can report that I am  most definitely  pressing it 
> once. I’ve always had problems with the control key on this machine, first 
> thing in the morning once I’ve opened my lid and start using the computer it 
> takes about three or four presses of the control key before it silences 
> VoiceOver. Almost like it needs to warm up. But when I test it on my wife’s 
> MacBook it behaves as it should every time. It’s just the control key on my 
> machine that refuses to play nicely.
> 
> 
> On 4/05/2020, at 13:09, alia robinson  > wrote:
>  
> it is, works everytime, but you need to just press it once. if you press it 
> again it will resume. you must be pressing it twice.
>  
> On May 3, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Petrus Tuerlings  > wrote:
>  
> Hi all,
> I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was a 
> solution?
> If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key to 
> shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for about 
> five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I press the 
> control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five seconds or so. So I 
> just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it quiet. Suppose I could mute 
> VoiceOver but I thought the control key was the way to do it.
>  
>  
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>  
> .
>  
> Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
>  
>  
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> reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched

Re: Controlling Audio Output

[Brad Snyder]

Janina,

Not sure exactly what you are wanting to do, but you can control the default 
sound output in the Sound preferences in System Preferences.
You can control VoiceOver output from within the Sound category of the 
VoiceOver Utility (accessed by VO + F8)

HTH

- Brad -




On May 4, 2020, at 14:36, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi, All:

I'm looking for a way to direct audio output from a particular
application to a particular audio device.

I currently have two audio devices on my Mini, and a third one coming
soon. So, I want certain applications to output to a particular one of
those three devices. I seem to recall seeing this somewhere, but can't
recall where? Did I see this in System Settings? Or was I just dreaming?

Best,

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Hi Pete,
I’m using Australian Karen, I can try and change it to see if it makes any 
difference. But I have Australian Karen on my wife’s Mac as well and I’ve never 
had this issue on her machine. But then I don’t use it as often so that doesn’t 
mean it won’t happen.
I seem to remember this issue right from day one when a friend came around to 
help me set the machine up and she told me to press the control key to silence 
voice over, but at that point I’d never met a Mac before so I could have been 
pressing the wrong key as well.

> On 5/05/2020, at 02:30, Pete De Vasto  wrote:
> 
> Petrus,
> 
> Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, one 
> of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control key does 
> exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to either her, or 
> maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron > > wrote:
>> 
>> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop speech in 
>> all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me something and 
>> the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on a phone call, or 
>> when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
>> 
>> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the control 
>> key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second press 
>> starts speech where it left off. 
>> 
>> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
>> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
>> 
>> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
>> 
>>  I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but not 
>>> when i use my swedish voice.
>>> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
>>> /A
>>> 
 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings >>> >:
 
 Hi all,
 I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was 
 a solution?
 If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key 
 to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for 
 about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I 
 press the control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five 
 seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it 
 quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought the control key was 
 the way to do it.
 Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
 
 
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 can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
  
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 .
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Petrus Tuerlings]

But this brings me back to my original  question. If I press VO +A to do a read 
all I just can not get the control key to work properly. I press it and 
VoiceOver will stop for about two seconds and then start up again. Now I am 
pressing the caps lock key +A to do the read all. I Might try  control option+A 
to do the read all and then see if the control silence key works as it should.

> On 5/05/2020, at 06:37, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When the ctrl key does not work, this is because the VO buffer is busy and 
> the normal ctrl key action is not registered.  I just press the Caps-Lock key 
> and VO instantly quiets.  The only problem with this method is that VO cannot 
> restart from where it left off after pressing this key, but it is stopped.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:21 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That has been my experience too, and I agree, it's very frustrating.
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 12:10 PM, Greg Wocher >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I notice that control does not work very often to silence speech. It does 
>>> not matter what voice I am using. Sometimes when I hit control it will even 
>>> start speaking in a different voice than the one I am using. It is one of 
>>> the most annoying frustrations I have with VoiceOver.
>>> 
>>> Greg Wocher
>>> 
>>> 
 On May 4, 2020, at 11:27 AM, Patrick Ford >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi, I am using Samantha and the control key does not work for silencing. I 
 thought it was because I had updated to catalina. it used to work just 
 fine but after catalina control key never worked again.
 patrick 
 
> On May 4, 2020, at 10:30 AM, Pete De Vasto  > wrote:
> 
> Petrus,
> 
> Out of curiosity, what voice are you currently using? I’m using Victoria, 
> one of the old-time voices that’s been with VO forever, and the control 
> key does exactly what I expect it to do. Have you tried switching to 
> either her, or maybe Samantha, just to see what happens?
> 
> Pete De Vasto
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 7:21 AM, Eric Caron > > wrote:
>> 
>> It would be helpful if it worked.  It would be a quick way to stop 
>> speech in all kinds of situations.  Mostly when my wife wants to tell me 
>> something and the computer is talking so I can’t hear.  But also when on 
>> a phone call, or when I want to silence a long unneeded computer ramble. 
>> 
>> I have learned to restart voice over or turn the volume down but the 
>> control key is faster and easier. And it has the advantage that a second 
>> press starts speech where it left off. 
>> 
>> I notice just now that if I close my lid and then reopen the control key 
>> feature no longer works.  I have to restart Voice over.  
>> 
>> Unfortunately due to an active cat it is best if I shut my lid often.
>> 
>>  I’ll pay attention to see what else triggers the failure.
>> 
>> Eric Caron 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> It seems to do so on my computer using all english speaking voices but 
>>> not when i use my swedish voice.
>>> Not sure why but thats how it is here.
>>> /A
>>> 
 4 maj 2020 kl. 02:57 skrev Petrus Tuerlings >>> >:
 
 Hi all,
 I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there 
 was a solution?
 If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control 
 key to shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will 
 shut up for about five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter 
 how many times I press the control key VoiceOver will start reading 
 again after five seconds or so. So I just end up slamming the lid down 
 just to keep it quiet. Suppose I could mute VoiceOver but I thought 
 the control key was the way to do it.
 Sent from Petrus' MacBook 
 
 
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 itself.
  
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 at:mk...@ucla.edu  and your own

Giving Apps access and battery life

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Hi all,
I just learned the importance of paying attention too what access Apps ask for. 
I recommended Lazarillo to Paul last week as I found it quite helpful when we 
moved into this new neighbourhood a few years ago. But admit I hadn’t used it 
for a while and when I opened it again it asked to access my location via 
bluetooth too. make it more accurate, or something like that. I couldn’t quite 
make the connection in my head between GPS  and bluetooth but I clicked on OK 
anyway. Then I noticed a huge drop in my battery life on my phone in the 
preceding days but isn’t make the connection. I was sitting there on Sunday 
trying to work out why my battery was draining so fast and I even checked my 
battery health and it was still running at peek performance. Then it hit me, 
the only change I made recently was with the Lazarillo App, so I went into my 
settings and found the lazarillo app and checked the settings. Once I turned 
off the bluetooth access my battery life was back to normal. So I’m going to 
pay more attention to apps when they ask me to give them access and 
permissions. 
Sorry for the rant, 
Petrus 
Sent from Petrus' MacBook 

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Google drive with Catalina?

[KliphnShari Miller]

> 
> Ok, trying to install google drive on my new MacMini running Catalina.  It 
> gets almost to the end, then says a file can’t be verified or is broken.  Has 
> anyone else had this issue, if so how did you fix it?
> 

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Re: Google drive with Catalina?

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

Try going into System Preferences, Security & Privacy, and to the Privacy tab.  
Select Accessibility from the table then make sure that Google Drive is in the 
next table of allowed apps/services.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On May 4, 2020, at 3:24 PM, KliphnShari Miller  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Ok, trying to install google drive on my new MacMini running Catalina.  It 
>> gets almost to the end, then says a file can’t be verified or is broken.  
>> Has anyone else had this issue, if so how did you fix it?
>> 
> 
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Re: Google drive with Catalina?

[KliphnShari Miller]

It’s not even letting me get to that point.  Here is the message I get when 
trying to install
An uncaught exception was raised during execution of the main script.

This may mean that an unexpected error has occurred, or that you do not have 
all of the dependencies for this application.

See the Console for a detailed traceback.


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https://www.bittorrent.com/downloads/windows/



> On May 4, 2020, at 4:44 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try going into System Preferences, Security & Privacy, and to the Privacy 
> tab.  Select Accessibility from the table then make sure that Google Drive is 
> in the next table of allowed apps/services.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 3:24 PM, KliphnShari Miller > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Ok, trying to install google drive on my new MacMini running Catalina.  It 
>>> gets almost to the end, then says a file can’t be verified or is broken.  
>>> Has anyone else had this issue, if so how did you fix it?
>>> 
>> 
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> 
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Bluetooth Thermometer?

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   This is s good a time as any to ask about this. Is there a good 
accurate device that works with the iPhone for monitoring one's 
temperature? "Accurate" is key here. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Re: Google drive with Catalina?

[Lorie McCloud]

can you tell me how to do this for VLC in Mojave?

thanks.
Lorie

> On May 4, 2020, at 4:44 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try going into System Preferences, Security & Privacy, and to the Privacy 
> tab.  Select Accessibility from the table then make sure that Google Drive is 
> in the next table of allowed apps/services.
> 
> Later…
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 3:24 PM, KliphnShari Miller > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Ok, trying to install google drive on my new MacMini running Catalina.  It 
>>> gets almost to the end, then says a file can’t be verified or is broken.  
>>> Has anyone else had this issue, if so how did you fix it?
>>> 
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>> 
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> 
> 
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>  
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RE: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

[Simon A Fogarty]

The retail  store wouldn’t understand your Mac computer or the fact you were 
speaking as well as the computer speaking

Retail outlets don’t know the technology they sell.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Tuesday, 5 May 2020 7:58 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

Sorry Simon,
I’m a bit confused by your reply?


On 4/05/2020, at 21:23, Simon A Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

Or your mac,

They speak words but don’t under stand what the words actually mean.

From:macvisionaries@googlegroups.commailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
 On Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2020 2:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Silencing VoiceOver with the control key

Hi Eric,
I have the advantage of having access to two machines and have only noticed 
this on my one. I might see if I can get hold of Apple accessibility and see if 
I can give them remote access to my machine  so they can see what is going on.  
.   shame that we haven[’t got Apple stores in New Zealand or I would have gone 
into store to show them what is happening.. And the retail store I got my Mac 
from wouldn’t understand VoiceOver anyway.



On 4/05/2020, at 14:13, Eric Caron 
mailto:eric.caro...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Petrus,

Yes, I brought this up earlier.

For me it works sometimes.  If not working what happens is I 
press it and Voice over just keeps talking.  I have to restart Voice over and 
then the Control key will work correctly. Unfortunately it doesn’t last all 
that long and I’m back to turning voice over off and on again.

It is nice when it works.

Best of luck.

Eric Caron




On May 3, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Petrus Tuerlings 
mailto:petrus.t...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I just tested it again, I can report that I am  most definitely  pressing it 
once. I’ve always had problems with the control key on this machine, first 
thing in the morning once I’ve opened my lid and start using the computer it 
takes about three or four presses of the control key before it silences 
VoiceOver. Almost like it needs to warm up. But when I test it on my wife’s 
MacBook it behaves as it should every time. It’s just the control key on my 
machine that refuses to play nicely.



On 4/05/2020, at 13:09, alia robinson 
mailto:ali...@gmail.com>> wrote:

it is, works everytime, but you need to just press it once. if you press it 
again it will resume. you must be pressing it twice.

On May 3, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Petrus Tuerlings 
mailto:petrus.t...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,
I know this was discussed a few weeks back but can’t remember if there was a 
solution?
If I use the VO+A to read all on an open email and I press the control key to 
shut Voiceover up because my wife is talking to me, it will shut up for about 
five seconds and then carry on reading. No matter how many times I press the 
control key VoiceOver will start reading again after five seconds or so. So I 
just end up slamming the lid down just to keep it quiet. Suppose I could mute 
VoiceOver but I thought the control key was the way to do it.


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Sent from Petrus' MacBook


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