RE: Ios 13.4.1

[Simon A Fogarty]

I can't think of how many machines I have with adaptive tech on them I have.

I know for a fact I need both windows with jaws and macintosh computers for 
different work related things,

There is no accessibility to active directory from a mac os machine unless you 
are using exchange or sharepoint to set permissions on things within their 
groups / lists or librarys.the same is with powershell from a mac computer,

Jaws and widnows wwork fine,an ssh client might work for powershell from a Mac 
but I've not ever been able to wmake it work.

Yet from my iPhone or ipad I can administer access / create groups add user and 
set permissions to active directory services,

Different devices / systems have different range of abilities ,

Mac computers are great and apples voiceover is one of the best screen reading 
products out there,

But it doesn't allow for everything,

Windows have has been developed for the world of business but not taken in to 
account those of us with no sight until more recently where narrator is working 
better and better all the time yet it's not an NVDA or jaws,
Even jaws has it's limitations NvDA is still being developed to get it up to 
the accessibility level of things like jaws but yet jaws costs a lot of money 
and NVDA is free or you can donate to the production of it.

Either way no system can do everything -Original Message-and each can 
do different things in different ways,

Therefore sometimes it's great to have a couple of options to hopefully allow 
for the entire job to be done fully.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Friday, 10 April 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

Jason,
You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
systems to complete tasks.
It certainly was not always  the case.
I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but those  
should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program being 
used.
I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
windows arena.
Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the Android 
platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google failing to 
understand  this a major concern.
as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not have  
the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply believe  access 
is an impossibility in  general.
However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part started 
with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that  a screen 
reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in theory the physical 
functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human body.
Kare
Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using adaptive 
technology  owns?



On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what 
> I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver 
> users significantly.
>
>
>
> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s 
> why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
> example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last 
> week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, 
> the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, 
> so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really 
> shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work properly, but 
> that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss application 
> and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility regressions there 
> either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers to work around 
> bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of accessibility problems 
> as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some applications are more 
> accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice versa.
>
>
>
> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make 
> fair comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to 
> have multiple operating systems available and to switch between them, 
> as the task requires, to work around accessibility problems. I should 
> be able to choose two operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop and 
> the other for mobile, and use those exclusively, but I don’t en

Re: Ios 13.4.1

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
One thing i don’t like is there ignorance of braille support.
I can’t say that braille support is good on the mac.
Its better in Catalina but not that good.
But windows is not an alternative for me so i stick with this and give it a go.
/A

> 9 apr. 2020 kl. 22:29 skrev 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> I’m getting fed up with Apple non-responsiveness to accessibility issues & 
> have begun the process of going back to Windows. & Jaws.  I’m so disappointed.
>> On 8 Apr 2020, at 08:16, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I just updated to iOS 13.4.1.
>> SO far i haven’t notice any bugfixes for Vo.
>> /A
>> 
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RE: Microsoft word on the Mac.

[Simon A Fogarty]

With office 365 you have a range of products you can purchase and that’s what 
it is,

I 2 have the office 365 suite on my notebooks both mac and windows,

I also have office 365 applications word excel powerpoint sway teams sharepoint 
outlook tasks
And groups in stalled to my iPhone and ipad

Yes there is a office suite that can be installed to the ipad and the iPhone,

The main thing is that with office 365 it’s an email / password activation to 
get these software packages working in a full state on the computer or mobile 
device.

With my package I also have the ability to share with 5 other people and 
install to up to 5 devices and also I can access documents on my web interface 
office applications
Also as for accessible office 365 web applications  are very accessible from 
what I can tell,

I use excel mainly on the net via teams and it’s fine,and with co authoring of 
documents you can see who does what in a document and with sharepoint tied in 
you can  version check

The only thing I’ve not used in O365 is skype for business but then I’ve got 
zoom and a phone for that.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of maurice mines
Sent: Friday, 10 April 2020 2:48 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Microsoft word on the Mac.

Hello Mr. Carlson, yes that is correct let me explain. When you have office 365 
you have the choice of either using the web version of an application or the 
version of the application that you actually install. Or at least that’s the 
way it was initially. These days I believe it is only the application install. 
The difference they were blind users is huge. If you use the web version of the 
application a screen reader can’t figure out where exact because it’s all based 
on a webpage. If it’s on the computer, then of course the screenreader is based 
on what’s presented to it locally. So to some of my answers yes I use a local 
version of the application but the subscription really is to office 365. I have 
the five device pack. That means that I can use Windows, Mac, a tablet if I 
wish, and even a smart phone if I wish. Because all of those devices are 
natively covered by my subscription. However I believe the tablet and the phone 
are restricted to the web version not the installed version. Now that I think 
about it, the phone does use and version meant for the phone. But I think the 
tablet version is  indeed a webpage. All versions have the account pain. It 
basically shows the fact that you are using one seat of the license. I hope 
this clarification, and explanation helps?

 And closing I’ve been using office three $0.65 late 2015.

Sincerely Maurice Mines.


On Apr 9, 2020, at 19:06, Dave Carlson 
mailto:dgcarl...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:

Morris,
You say your version is not the on line version? So you mean you are not using 
Office 365?


Dave Carlson
Pioneer, Farfar, Oregonian, Woodworker, Engineer, and Musician






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Re: Ios 13.4.1

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi Jason and others!
That’s an interesting perspective too.
I also have multiple operating systems here like you. all operating systems has 
their flaws of corse.
But it depends on what you should do with your Computer.
To me braille is very important as i really don’t get the full control with 
speech only.
But i have to use both braille and speech on the mac as it is right now.
Otherwise i don’t get the full control over what’s going on on the screen.
In text only mode in linux braille is working just as i expect it to do.
But then again i have to get through the learning curve of command line 
interface.
And to be honest i am not that clever yet.
/A

> 10 apr. 2020 kl. 01:58 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what 
> I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver 
> users significantly.
>  
> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s 
> why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
> example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last 
> week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, 
> the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, 
> so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really 
> shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work properly, but 
> that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss application 
> and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility regressions there 
> either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers to work around 
> bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of accessibility problems 
> as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some applications are more 
> accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice versa.
>  
> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make fair 
> comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to have multiple 
> operating systems available and to switch between them, as the task requires, 
> to work around accessibility problems. I should be able to choose two 
> operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop and the other for mobile, and 
> use those exclusively, but I don’t envisage that being effective from an 
> accessibility perspective for me within the short term or even the medium 
> term. It just isn’t workable, given the quality problems across multiple 
> platforms. iOS is adequate for my mobile needs, but the desktop/laptop 
> situation is more complex – and that’s where I’m doing most of the work, and 
> therefore where I notice the problems more. Everyone’s situation is 
> different, of course, and, as usual, the people with less technical knowledge 
> will be 
> The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on 
> whichever platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere.
>  
> From: Macvisionaries  > on behalf of joseph hodge 
> mailto:josephlho...@gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: Macvisionaries  >
> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38
> To: Macvisionaries  >
> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>  
> You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave no 
> reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. 
>  
> I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for one 
> but every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still can’t read 
> all punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an option. I left 
> Apple for a bit and came back some times we have to evaluate things and see 
> how they are. Hope you find what your looking for.
>  
> Joe
>  
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 4:31 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>>  
>> What specifically has given you the impression that Apple is not focusing on 
>> accessibility?
>>  
>> Later...
>>  
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>  
>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:29, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>> I’m getting fed up with Apple non-responsiveness to accessibility issues & 
>> have begun the process of going back to Windows. & Jaws.  I’m so 
>> disappointed.
>> 
>>> On 8 Apr 2020, at 08:16, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I just updated to iOS 13.4.1.
>>> SO far i haven’t notice any bugfixes for Vo.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate,

RE: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

[Simon A Fogarty]

Jason,

Not to mention it's not a top priority for these companys to make the 
accessibility fully functional and there for as much as we complain about the 
bugs,
We don't celebrate the great products that we are given to work with.


-Original Message-
From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 3:21 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop screen 
readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and support for 
accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, knowledgeable, 
and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work for multinational 
corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be under-resourced. Too 
many software developers writing applications and application components don't 
know how to implement accessibility support well - or don't give it sufficient 
priority.
The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't 
change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, as 
well as more software developers working on accessibility issues effectively.
I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's a 
policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM
To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

Jason,
You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
systems to complete tasks.
It certainly was not always  the case.
I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but those  
should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program being 
used.
I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
windows arena.
Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the Android 
platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google failing to 
understand  this a major concern.
as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not have  
the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply believe  access 
is an impossibility in  general.
However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part started 
with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that  a screen 
reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in theory the physical 
functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human body.
Kare
Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using adaptive 
technology  owns?



On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on 
> what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other 
> VoiceOver users significantly.
>
>
>
> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s 
> why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
> example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last 
> week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, 
> the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, 
> so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really 
> shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work properly, 
> but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss 
> application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility 
> regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers 
> to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of 
> accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some 
> applications are more accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice 
> versa.
>
>
>
> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make 
> fair comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to 
> have multiple operating systems available and to switch between them, 
> as the task requires, to work around accessibility problems. I should 
> be able to choose two operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop 
> and the other for mobile, and use those exclusively, but I don’t 
> envisage that being effective from an accessibility perspective for me 
> within the short term or even the medium term. It just 

How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Hi All:

I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college try--having
heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have mine
configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.

Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
new email arrival and read me the top of the message.

Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that interferes
with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
on a work teleconference.

So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
not always.

So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. Surely
I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? Surely
I'm missing the nuances somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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RE: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hey what about windows?

Dos?
Oh you said linux 

And yeah I agree 

We use what we have to, to get things done,

Be it work related or personal,




-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Sandie Jazmin Kruse
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 6:13 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

I am not going to get any friends from saying this, but it have too be said. I 
have used chromebooks for over a year now , and have not had one single 
situation where i could not. Get stuff done. And if they have broken something 
in an update, they have fixed it for me when i have mentioned it , can the same 
be said for apple?
If you are geeky enough you will at beast be left with 3 major OS. IOS 
chromeos, and android. I use them all for diffrent things. Wait i forgot Linux. 
Too me it is about using the right tool for the right thing, so too speak.


Sent from my iPad

> On 10 Apr 2020, at 17.20, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop 
> screen readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and 
> support for accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, 
> knowledgeable, and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work 
> for multinational corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be 
> under-resourced. Too many software developers writing applications and 
> application components don't know how to implement accessibility support well 
> - or don't give it sufficient priority.
> The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't 
> change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, 
> as well as more software developers working on accessibility issues 
> effectively.
> I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's a 
> policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM
> To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
> 
> Jason,
> You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
> why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
> system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
> why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
> systems to complete tasks.
> It certainly was not always  the case.
> I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but 
> those  should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
> accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program 
> being used.
> I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
> single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
> windows arena.
> Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
> controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the 
> Android platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google 
> failing to understand  this a major concern.
> as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not have 
>  the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply believe  
> access is an impossibility in  general.
> However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part started 
> with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that  a screen 
> reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in theory the 
> physical functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human body.
> Kare
> Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using adaptive 
> technology  owns?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> 
>> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on 
>> what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other 
>> VoiceOver users significantly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. 
>> That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work 
>> done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in 
>> the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. 
>> Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on 
>> the same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of 
>> course, I really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do 
>> my work properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the 
>> place to discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or 
>> accessibility regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows 
>> screen readers to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its 
>>

Re: Ios 13.4.1

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

Thank you, Tim.  Much appreciated.

Andrew
> On 10 Apr 2020, at 21:34, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Yes, you certainly have occasion to be frustrated.  One thing to note, Apple 
> Accessibility is simply a support line.  They are not the developers, nor do 
> they have a direct line to the developer team.  They can, though, escalate 
> items easier than you or I, so I do understand your frustration.  I will pass 
> your concern on to an Apple SE or two to see if they can direct it to the 
> relevant team members to see if it can be addressed sooner rather than later. 
>  Regarding how easy the problem is to fix, I can't be sure other than to say 
> that it's often easier from the outside than it is from the inside when it 
> comes to lengthy and complicated code.
> 
> Later...
> 
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 10, 2020, at 04:28, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> I think frustration sometimes makes us speak to generally.  My ongoing 
> complaint about Apple’s accessibility indifference to an issue I’ve been 
> reporting for over 4 years is their ignoring thus far the Greek voice bug 
> where the Greek voice, be it native to Apple or infovox ivox instead of 
> reading text properly, spells it out, which renders it useless.  I think 4 
> years is a very long time and I am having to keep one of my macs on Sierra in 
> order to be able to work and enjoy the greek speech.  This is really 
> beginning to irritate me.  I have been beta testing as well and have been 
> reporting this problem for over 4 years as well ever since High Sierra.  I 
> have recently been on the phone to Apple Accessibility begging them to fix 
> this.  I don’t think it is very hard to correct this problem and yet they 
> haven’t.  The latest Catalina beta has retained this bug too.  Every time 
> there’s a new release of beta for testing, I send a bug report and it’s 
> beginning to feel like a joke.  I don’t quite know what to do because one day 
> I will have to give up my Sierra running laptop either because it fails or 
> when the OS becomes unsupported.  So hence I’m playing around with Windows 
> again very very reluctantly.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Andrew
>> On 9 Apr 2020, at 21:31, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:Macvisionaries@Googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> What specifically has given you the impression that Apple is not focusing on 
>> accessibility?
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:29, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m getting fed up with Apple non-responsiveness to accessibility issues & 
>> have begun the process of going back to Windows. & Jaws.  I’m so 
>> disappointed.
>>> On 8 Apr 2020, at 08:16, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I just updated to iOS 13.4.1.
>>> SO far i haven’t notice any bugfixes for Vo.
>>> /A
>>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 

FaceBook on safari

[Patrick Ford]

Hi,
On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face book, I 
cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this site 
they do work.
Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
Thanks.
patrick 

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Terminal and ssh (was Re: Ios 13.4.1)

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

BRLTTY in the Linux console is excellent – highly reliable and with a good set 
of features. I would certainly recommend learning the Linux command line 
thoroughly. The BSD UNIX system that Mac OS is based on has a quite similar 
command line interface. After you’ve learned one  UNIX-like system, adapting to 
another is easy.

 

This brings me to a question: how accessible is ssh under iOS or iPad OS these 
days? I know there are apps available for it, but I don’t know how practicable 
it is to use with VoiceOver (both braille and speech).

 

From: Macvisionaries  on behalf of Anders 
Holmberg 
Reply-To: Macvisionaries 
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 05:39
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

 

Hi Jason and others!

That’s an interesting perspective too.

I also have multiple operating systems here like you. all operating systems has 
their flaws of corse.

But it depends on what you should do with your Computer.

To me braille is very important as i really don’t get the full control with 
speech only.

But i have to use both braille and speech on the mac as it is right now.

Otherwise i don’t get the full control over what’s going on on the screen.

In text only mode in linux braille is working just as i expect it to do.

But then again i have to get through the learning curve of command line 
interface.

And to be honest i am not that clever yet.

/A



10 apr. 2020 kl. 01:58 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
:

 

I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what 
I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver 
users significantly.

 

Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s why 
I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last week 
or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, the 
laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, so it’s 
really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really shouldn’t have 
to move between two computers just to do my work properly, but that’s how it is 
at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss application and screen reader 
crashes on Windows, or accessibility regressions there either, or having to 
switch between Windows screen readers to work around bugs. In my experience, 
the Mac has had its share of accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been 
using it since 2014. Some applications are more accessible under Windows than 
under Mac OS, and vice versa.

 

I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make fair 
comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to have multiple 
operating systems available and to switch between them, as the task requires, 
to work around accessibility problems. I should be able to choose two operating 
systems – one for a laptop/desktop and the other for mobile, and use those 
exclusively, but I don’t envisage that being effective from an accessibility 
perspective for me within the short term or even the medium term. It just isn’t 
workable, given the quality problems across multiple platforms. iOS is adequate 
for my mobile needs, but the desktop/laptop situation is more complex – and 
that’s where I’m doing most of the work, and therefore where I notice the 
problems more. Everyone’s situation is different, of course, and, as usual, the 
people with less technical knowledge will be 

The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on whichever 
platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere.

 

From: Macvisionaries  on behalf of joseph 
hodge 


Reply-To: Macvisionaries 
Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

 

You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave no 
reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. 

 

I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for one but 
every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still can’t read all 
punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an option. I left Apple 
for a bit and came back some times we have to evaluate things and see how they 
are. Hope you find what your looking for.

 

Joe

 

Sent from my iPad





On Apr 9, 2020, at 4:31 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi,

 

What specifically has given you the impression that Apple is not focusing on 
accessibility?

 

Later...

 


Tim Kilburn

Jamf Certified Tech

Apple Teacher

(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)

Fort McMurray, AB Canada

 

On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:29, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

 

I’m getting fed up with Apple non-responsiveness to accessibility issues & have 
begun the process of going back to Windows. & Jaws.  I’m so disappointed.


On 8 Apr 2020, at 08:16, Anders Holmberg  wrote:

Hi!
I just updated to iOS 13.4.1.
SO far i haven’

Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

You can also control it from the Notification Center: Ctrl-Option-M twice, then 
Ctrl-Option-End is the quick way to get there, then Ctrl-Option-Space to open 
it. Above the notifications table are some controls, including a Do Not Disturb 
switch. I find that I have to interact with the notifications table, then move 
up once to get to the controls, then interact with that group to reach the 
individual switches.

There may be a quicker way to toggle it though.

On 4/11/20, 06:18, "'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries" 
 wrote:

Hi All:

I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college try--having
heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have mine
configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.

Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
new email arrival and read me the top of the message.

Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that interferes
with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
on a work teleconference.

So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
not always.

So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. Surely
I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? Surely
I'm missing the nuances somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

I haven't tried it, but this article looks interesting:
https://osxdaily.com/2019/05/21/set-do-not-disturb-keyboard-shortcut-mac/

On 4/11/20, 09:30, "'Jason White' via MacVisionaries" 
 wrote:

You can also control it from the Notification Center: Ctrl-Option-M twice, 
then Ctrl-Option-End is the quick way to get there, then Ctrl-Option-Space to 
open it. Above the notifications table are some controls, including a Do Not 
Disturb switch. I find that I have to interact with the notifications table, 
then move up once to get to the controls, then interact with that group to 
reach the individual switches.

There may be a quicker way to toggle it though.

On 4/11/20, 06:18, "'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries" 
 wrote:

Hi All:

I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college try--having
heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have mine
configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.

Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
new email arrival and read me the top of the message.

Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that interferes
with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
on a work teleconference.

So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
not always.

So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. Surely
I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? Surely
I'm missing the nuances somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures
http://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

[Brad Snyder]

Hi Janina,

In Notification preferences, you can manage/adjust notifications for individual 
applications.  You do not need to use Do Not Disturb.
By default, in macOS Catalina, the Mail app displays a banner notification for 
each incoming mail item.  This can be adjusted as follows:
1.  Go to System Preferences > Notifications.
2.  In the applications table, select Mail.
3.  Set Mail alert style to None.
4.  you can set other Mail notifications to your liking, such as a sound for 
incoming new Mail, and displaying a Badge App icon alert for new mail.

HTH

- Brad -




On Apr 11, 2020, at 05:17, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Hi All:

I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college try--having
heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have mine
configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.

Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
new email arrival and read me the top of the message.

Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that interferes
with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
on a work teleconference.

So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
not always.

So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. Surely
I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? Surely
I'm missing the nuances somewhere?

Thanks in advance!

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

[Robert Carter]

Hi,

I set up the shortcut key for toggling do not disturb. It works great but 
VoiceOver doesn’t announce the state of do not disturb when you press the 
shortcut key. Any clever ideas on how to make VO announce this?

Robert Carter



> On Apr 11, 2020, at 8:39 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I haven't tried it, but this article looks interesting:
> https://osxdaily.com/2019/05/21/set-do-not-disturb-keyboard-shortcut-mac/
> 
> On 4/11/20, 09:30, "'Jason White' via MacVisionaries" 
>  wrote:
> 
>You can also control it from the Notification Center: Ctrl-Option-M twice, 
> then Ctrl-Option-End is the quick way to get there, then Ctrl-Option-Space to 
> open it. Above the notifications table are some controls, including a Do Not 
> Disturb switch. I find that I have to interact with the notifications table, 
> then move up once to get to the controls, then interact with that group to 
> reach the individual switches.
> 
>There may be a quicker way to toggle it though.
> 
>On 4/11/20, 06:18, "'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries" 
>  wrote:
> 
>Hi All:
> 
>I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college try--having
>heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have 
> mine
>configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.
> 
>Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
>new email arrival and read me the top of the message.
> 
>Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that 
> interferes
>with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
>chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
>on a work teleconference.
> 
>So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
>Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
>mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
>not always.
> 
>So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
>Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. 
> Surely
>I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
>window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? Surely
>I'm missing the nuances somewhere?
> 
>Thanks in advance!
> 
>Janina
> 
>-- 
> 
>Janina Sajka
> 
>Linux Foundation Fellow
>Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:  http://a11y.org
> 
>The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures   
> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
>-- 
>The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
>If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
>Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
>The archives for this list can be searched at:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Bug in new version of Numbers on OS X

[Phil Halton]

Has anyone else using numbers noticed a terrible bug in tables row and Collin 
had a reading? In the new version 10 column labels are only read for about the 
first seven or eight columns and after that numbers does not see the column 
labels anymore. Similarly with row header labels the first Tanner so Rose the 
labels are red, but after that numbers does not see the row headers. I have use 
the various voiceover commands to read column headers and row headers and it 
simply does not see anything there
This is happening in all of the tables in my spreadsheet application, 
approximately four tables like this are affected. I don’t think it’s my 
installation, that is, a problem in the spreadsheet. I think that it is a 
problem with the new release of version 10 for numbers. Can anybody else verify 
a problem with table row and header label reading after the first seven or 
eight columns in the first dozen or so rose? 

Sent from my IPhone

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Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

This one looks perfect, especially if I can also figure out how to get
it to report it's status, eg., "Do not disturb on."

Thanks, Jason.

'Jason White' via MacVisionaries writes:
> I haven't tried it, but this article looks interesting:
> https://osxdaily.com/2019/05/21/set-do-not-disturb-keyboard-shortcut-mac/
> 
> On 4/11/20, 09:30, "'Jason White' via MacVisionaries" 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can also control it from the Notification Center: Ctrl-Option-M 
> twice, then Ctrl-Option-End is the quick way to get there, then 
> Ctrl-Option-Space to open it. Above the notifications table are some 
> controls, including a Do Not Disturb switch. I find that I have to interact 
> with the notifications table, then move up once to get to the controls, then 
> interact with that group to reach the individual switches.
> 
> There may be a quicker way to toggle it though.
> 
> On 4/11/20, 06:18, "'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college 
> try--having
> heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have 
> mine
> configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.
> 
> Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
> new email arrival and read me the top of the message.
> 
> Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that 
> interferes
> with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
> chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
> on a work teleconference.
> 
> So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
> Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
> mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
> not always.
> 
> So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
> Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. 
> Surely
> I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
> window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? 
> Surely
> I'm missing the nuances somewhere?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Janina
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative 
> (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  
> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> -- 
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> Visionaries list.
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Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Thanks, Brad. This is just what I needed! 

I don't know how I missed seeing there was a table of applications, but
I missed that so didn't explore in there.

Theoretically I'm now going to hear a sound when new mail comes in. I'm
sure the rest is just a better understanding of what the various
settings mean.

Best,

Janina

Brad Snyder writes:
> Hi Janina,
> 
> In Notification preferences, you can manage/adjust notifications for 
> individual applications.  You do not need to use Do Not Disturb.
> By default, in macOS Catalina, the Mail app displays a banner notification 
> for each incoming mail item.  This can be adjusted as follows:
> 1.  Go to System Preferences > Notifications.
> 2.  In the applications table, select Mail.
> 3.  Set Mail alert style to None.
> 4.  you can set other Mail notifications to your liking, such as a sound for 
> incoming new Mail, and displaying a Badge App icon alert for new mail.
> 
> HTH
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 11, 2020, at 05:17, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All:
> 
> I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college try--having
> heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have mine
> configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.
> 
> Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of every
> new email arrival and read me the top of the message.
> 
> Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that interferes
> with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
> chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying something
> on a work teleconference.
> 
> So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
> Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
> mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly useful--but
> not always.
> 
> So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
> Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. Surely
> I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
> window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? Surely
> I'm missing the nuances somewhere?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Janina
> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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-- 

Janina Sajka

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa

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Re: How can one selectively silence Mail notifications?

['Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries]

Robert:

My guess is this could be achieved with a little scripting. I may give
that a try at some point. I'm a total newbie to Apple scripts, though
not to scripting in general.

Janina

Robert Carter writes:
> Hi,
> 
> I set up the shortcut key for toggling do not disturb. It works great but 
> VoiceOver doesn’t announce the state of do not disturb when you press the 
> shortcut key. Any clever ideas on how to make VO announce this?
> 
> Robert Carter
> 
> 
> 
> > On Apr 11, 2020, at 8:39 AM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I haven't tried it, but this article looks interesting:
> > https://osxdaily.com/2019/05/21/set-do-not-disturb-keyboard-shortcut-mac/
> > 
> > On 4/11/20, 09:30, "'Jason White' via MacVisionaries" 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >You can also control it from the Notification Center: Ctrl-Option-M 
> > twice, then Ctrl-Option-End is the quick way to get there, then 
> > Ctrl-Option-Space to open it. Above the notifications table are some 
> > controls, including a Do Not Disturb switch. I find that I have to interact 
> > with the notifications table, then move up once to get to the controls, 
> > then interact with that group to reach the individual switches.
> > 
> >There may be a quicker way to toggle it though.
> > 
> >On 4/11/20, 06:18, "'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries" 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >Hi All:
> > 
> >I'm trying to give Apple's Mail application the old college 
> > try--having
> >heard people say how much they like this app over the years. I have 
> > mine
> >configured and working. It's sending and receiving as I would expect.
> > 
> >Here's my problem: It's far too chatty. It wants to notify me of 
> > every
> >new email arrival and read me the top of the message.
> > 
> >Sometimes that's a good thing, but often it's a nuisance that 
> > interferes
> >with other work. It's certainly a nuisance for my Mac to start
> >chattering like a chipmunk while I'm in the middle of saying 
> > something
> >on a work teleconference.
> > 
> >So, I'm looking for easy ways to turn this behavior on and off.
> >Suggestions would be most appreciated. My ideal is an easy toggle
> >mechanism as having those automated announcements is truly 
> > useful--but
> >not always.
> > 
> >So far all I've found is the Do Not Disturb facility under System
> >Preferences / Notifications, but that seems to want a time frame. 
> > Surely
> >I shouldn't be reduced to specifying midnight to 23:59 as the DND
> >window? Surely something other than a sledgehammer is available? 
> > Surely
> >I'm missing the nuances somewhere?
> > 
> >Thanks in advance!
> > 
> >Janina
> > 
> >-- 
> > 
> >Janina Sajka
> > 
> >Linux Foundation Fellow
> >Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:http://a11y.org
> > 
> >The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative 
> > (WAI)
> >Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures 
> > http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > 
> >-- 
> >The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> > Visionaries list.
> > 
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> > list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
> > the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> > 
> >Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
> > mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
> > at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> > 
> >The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> > at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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> > 
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Re: Apple TV 4k

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   Ok here is what I did this morning. After changing status of a TV 
show episode in the Mac TV app, I closed the app then opened it again. 
The status change I made did not stick.


   Then I looked at the database files in the iTunes Media folder. None 
of the date stamps have changed since October, about the time I did the 
clean install of Catalina. So it isn't the ATV.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/10/2020 4:42 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Hi,

I'm not sure why it's doing this, nor can I confirm very easily right 
now.  We're in the middle of a Harry Potter marathon.  Just starting The 
Order of the Phoenix tonight and they're all purchased through iTunes. 
  I'll need to watch something else all the way through that is ripped 
and on my computer to confirm.  All that aside, I have some suggestions. 
  If you know that the title has been watched, go to your Mac, into 
iTunes, or the TV app, VO-shift-m on the title to bring up the 
Contextual menu, then select "Mark As Watched".  This will change it on 
your Apple TV as well.  I did some reading and, supposedly, this is 
possible on the Apple TV itself by long pressing the Select button, 
that's the trackpad thing on the Siri remote.  After long pressing, a 
menu is supposed to appear where you can choose to mark it as watched. 
  I couldn't make it work with VO though, and my wife and daughter are 
out right now so can't verify if that works without VO.  I did read from 
about five years ago people having this problem, but haven't found any 
similar posts lately.  You'd think that if it was happening five years 
ago that Apple would have fixed it by now.  Maybe not I guess.


Well, enough rambling.  Sorry for the long post without a real solution. 
  I'll let you know if I figure anything else out.


Later...


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 10, 2020, at 09:40, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


   Still unable to resolve this. Would like input.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 4/7/2020 10:13 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries wrote:
   Latest tvOS and macOS. Watching movies and TV shows in the 
Computers app do not update the play count even though this option is 
checked in System prefs, Sharing category. Viewing history is also 
checked in the TV app on the Mac.
   When I choose the Unwatched list on the ATV, shows and movies I 
have already watched are still there. Is there another setting 
somewhere I need to look for?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?


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Re: Ios 13.4.1

['Kawal Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

Braille is very important to me too as I can’t know the spelling of everything 
unless I have braille.  Speech is good to listen to the content, but if you 
want detail, braille  comes into its own.  I wish braille on the Mac was 
better.  But the world of work wants Windows so one needs to have a couple of 
operating systems I think.

Kawal.

> On 11 Apr 2020, at 10:39, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jason and others!
> That’s an interesting perspective too.
> I also have multiple operating systems here like you. all operating systems 
> has their flaws of corse.
> But it depends on what you should do with your Computer.
> To me braille is very important as i really don’t get the full control with 
> speech only.
> But i have to use both braille and speech on the mac as it is right now.
> Otherwise i don’t get the full control over what’s going on on the screen.
> In text only mode in linux braille is working just as i expect it to do.
> But then again i have to get through the learning curve of command line 
> interface.
> And to be honest i am not that clever yet.
> /A
> 
>> 10 apr. 2020 kl. 01:58 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:
>> 
>> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what 
>> I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver 
>> users significantly.
>>  
>> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s 
>> why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
>> example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last 
>> week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, 
>> the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, 
>> so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really 
>> shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work properly, 
>> but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss 
>> application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility 
>> regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers 
>> to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of 
>> accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some 
>> applications are more accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice 
>> versa.
>>  
>> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make fair 
>> comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to have multiple 
>> operating systems available and to switch between them, as the task 
>> requires, to work around accessibility problems. I should be able to choose 
>> two operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop and the other for mobile, 
>> and use those exclusively, but I don’t envisage that being effective from an 
>> accessibility perspective for me within the short term or even the medium 
>> term. It just isn’t workable, given the quality problems across multiple 
>> platforms. iOS is adequate for my mobile needs, but the desktop/laptop 
>> situation is more complex – and that’s where I’m doing most of the work, and 
>> therefore where I notice the problems more. Everyone’s situation is 
>> different, of course, and, as usual, the people with less technical 
>> knowledge will be 
>> The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on 
>> whichever platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere.
>>  
>> From: Macvisionaries > > on behalf of joseph hodge 
>> mailto:josephlho...@gmail.com>>
>> Reply-To: Macvisionaries > >
>> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38
>> To: Macvisionaries > >
>> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>>  
>> You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave 
>> no reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. 
>>  
>> I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for one 
>> but every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still can’t read 
>> all punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an option. I left 
>> Apple for a bit and came back some times we have to evaluate things and see 
>> how they are. Hope you find what your looking for.
>>  
>> Joe
>>  
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 4:31 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>  
>>> What specifically has given you the impression that Apple is not focusing 
>>> on accessibility?
>>>  
>>> Later...
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>  
>>> On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:29, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> I’m getting fed up with Apple non-respon

Download a video clip

[Dionipher Herrera]

Hello guys, i would like to ask if any body know how to download a video  clip 
on hd piano site.
Thanks. i would love to have a copy of them.

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Re: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Does the chromebook support braille?
/A

> 11 apr. 2020 kl. 08:12 skrev Sandie Jazmin Kruse :
> 
> I am not going to get any friends from saying this, but it have too be said. 
> I have used chromebooks for over a year now , and have not had one single 
> situation where i could not. Get stuff done. And if they have broken 
> something in an update, they have fixed it for me when i have mentioned it , 
> can the same be said for apple?
> If you are geeky enough you will at beast be left with 3 major OS. IOS 
> chromeos, and android. I use them all for diffrent things. Wait i forgot 
> Linux. Too me it is about using the right tool for the right thing, so too 
> speak.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 10 Apr 2020, at 17.20, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop 
>> screen readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and 
>> support for accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, 
>> knowledgeable, and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work 
>> for multinational corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be 
>> under-resourced. Too many software developers writing applications and 
>> application components don't know how to implement accessibility support 
>> well - or don't give it sufficient priority.
>> The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't 
>> change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, 
>> as well as more software developers working on accessibility issues 
>> effectively.
>> I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's a 
>> policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>> Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM
>> To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>> 
>> Jason,
>> You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
>> why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
>> system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
>> why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
>> systems to complete tasks.
>> It certainly was not always  the case.
>> I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but 
>> those  should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
>> accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program 
>> being used.
>> I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
>> single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
>> windows arena.
>> Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
>> controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the 
>> Android platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google 
>> failing to understand  this a major concern.
>> as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not 
>> have  the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply believe 
>>  access is an impossibility in  general.
>> However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part started 
>> with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that  a 
>> screen reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in theory 
>> the physical functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human body.
>> Kare
>> Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using 
>> adaptive technology  owns?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> 
>>> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on 
>>> what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other 
>>> VoiceOver users significantly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. 
>>> That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work 
>>> done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task 
>>> in the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. 
>>> Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on 
>>> the same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of 
>>> course, I really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do 
>>> my work properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the 
>>> place to discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or 
>>> accessibility regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows 
>>> screen readers to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its 
>>> share of accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been using it since 
>>> 2014. Some applications are more accessible under Windows than under Mac 
>>> OS, and vice versa.
>>> 
>>> 

Re: Terminal and ssh (was Re: Ios 13.4.1)

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
It seems quite complicated to set Brltty up under Mac?
You should install a screen driver and such so i only get confused.
/A

> 11 apr. 2020 kl. 15:25 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> BRLTTY in the Linux console is excellent – highly reliable and with a good 
> set of features. I would certainly recommend learning the Linux command line 
> thoroughly. The BSD UNIX system that Mac OS is based on has a quite similar 
> command line interface. After you’ve learned one  UNIX-like system, adapting 
> to another is easy.
>  
> This brings me to a question: how accessible is ssh under iOS or iPad OS 
> these days? I know there are apps available for it, but I don’t know how 
> practicable it is to use with VoiceOver (both braille and speech).
>  
> From: Macvisionaries  > on behalf of Anders Holmberg 
> mailto:and...@pipkrokodil.se>>
> Reply-To: Macvisionaries  >
> Date: Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 05:39
> To: Macvisionaries  >
> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>  
> Hi Jason and others!
> That’s an interesting perspective too.
> I also have multiple operating systems here like you. all operating systems 
> has their flaws of corse.
> But it depends on what you should do with your Computer.
> To me braille is very important as i really don’t get the full control with 
> speech only.
> But i have to use both braille and speech on the mac as it is right now.
> Otherwise i don’t get the full control over what’s going on on the screen.
> In text only mode in linux braille is working just as i expect it to do.
> But then again i have to get through the learning curve of command line 
> interface.
> And to be honest i am not that clever yet.
> /A
> 
> 
>> 10 apr. 2020 kl. 01:58 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:
>>  
>> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what 
>> I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver 
>> users significantly.
>>  
>> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s 
>> why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
>> example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last 
>> week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, 
>> the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, 
>> so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really 
>> shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work properly, 
>> but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss 
>> application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility 
>> regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers 
>> to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of 
>> accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some 
>> applications are more accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice 
>> versa.
>>  
>> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make fair 
>> comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to have multiple 
>> operating systems available and to switch between them, as the task 
>> requires, to work around accessibility problems. I should be able to choose 
>> two operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop and the other for mobile, 
>> and use those exclusively, but I don’t envisage that being effective from an 
>> accessibility perspective for me within the short term or even the medium 
>> term. It just isn’t workable, given the quality problems across multiple 
>> platforms. iOS is adequate for my mobile needs, but the desktop/laptop 
>> situation is more complex – and that’s where I’m doing most of the work, and 
>> therefore where I notice the problems more. Everyone’s situation is 
>> different, of course, and, as usual, the people with less technical 
>> knowledge will be 
>> The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on 
>> whichever platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere.
>>  
>> From: Macvisionaries > > on behalf of joseph hodge 
>> mailto:josephlho...@gmail.com>>
>> Reply-To: Macvisionaries > >
>> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38
>> To: Macvisionaries > >
>> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>>  
>> You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave 
>> no reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. 
>>  
>> I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for one 
>> but every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still can’t read 
>> all punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an option. I left 
>> Apple for a bit and came back some times we have to

Re: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

['Devin Prater' via MacVisionaries]

Yes.
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/7020014?hl=en

> On Apr 11, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Does the chromebook support braille?
> /A
> 
>> 11 apr. 2020 kl. 08:12 skrev Sandie Jazmin Kruse :
>> 
>> I am not going to get any friends from saying this, but it have too be said. 
>> I have used chromebooks for over a year now , and have not had one single 
>> situation where i could not. Get stuff done. And if they have broken 
>> something in an update, they have fixed it for me when i have mentioned it , 
>> can the same be said for apple?
>> If you are geeky enough you will at beast be left with 3 major OS. IOS 
>> chromeos, and android. I use them all for diffrent things. Wait i forgot 
>> Linux. Too me it is about using the right tool for the right thing, so too 
>> speak.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 10 Apr 2020, at 17.20, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop 
>>> screen readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and 
>>> support for accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, 
>>> knowledgeable, and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work 
>>> for multinational corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be 
>>> under-resourced. Too many software developers writing applications and 
>>> application components don't know how to implement accessibility support 
>>> well - or don't give it sufficient priority.
>>> The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't 
>>> change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, 
>>> as well as more software developers working on accessibility issues 
>>> effectively.
>>> I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's 
>>> a policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
>>> Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM
>>> To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1
>>> 
>>> Jason,
>>> You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
>>> why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
>>> system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
>>> why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
>>> systems to complete tasks.
>>> It certainly was not always  the case.
>>> I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but 
>>> those  should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
>>> accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program 
>>> being used.
>>> I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
>>> single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
>>> windows arena.
>>> Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
>>> controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the 
>>> Android platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google 
>>> failing to understand  this a major concern.
>>> as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not 
>>> have  the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply 
>>> believe  access is an impossibility in  general.
>>> However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part 
>>> started with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that 
>>>  a screen reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in 
>>> theory the physical functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human 
>>> body.
>>> Kare
>>> Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using 
>>> adaptive technology  owns?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:
 
 I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on 
 what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or 
 other VoiceOver users significantly.
 
 
 
 Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. 
 That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work 
 done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task 
 in the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. 
 Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on 
 the same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of 
 course, I really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do 
 my work properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the 
 place to discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or 
 accessibility regressions there either, or having to switch between 
 Windows screen readers to work around bugs. In

Re: FaceBook on safari

[Michael Marshall]

Hey,
I'm sure many people have suggested this already but you're better going to 
Facebook basic, it's better than the mobile version.

> On 11 Apr 2020, at 11:07 pm, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
>   Hi,
> On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face book, I 
> cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
> I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this site 
> they do work.
> Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
> Thanks.
> patrick 
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Let's find out what happens when the European Accessibility Act starts to take 
effect, later this decade. It might speed up the process of improvement.

It will also be interesting to observe what accessibility enhancements Apple 
developers make over the next few years. Voice Control was a major advance 
introduced last year.

On 4/11/20, 05:51, "Simon A Fogarty"  wrote:

Jason,

Not to mention it's not a top priority for these companys to make the 
accessibility fully functional and there for as much as we complain about the 
bugs,
We don't celebrate the great products that we are given to work with.


-Original Message-
From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 3:21 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1)

The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop 
screen readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and support 
for accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, 
knowledgeable, and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work for 
multinational corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be 
under-resourced. Too many software developers writing applications and 
application components don't know how to implement accessibility support well - 
or don't give it sufficient priority.
The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't 
change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, as 
well as more software developers working on accessibility issues effectively.
I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's 
a policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM
To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

Jason,
You  raise an issue that frankly baffles me.
why is it not possible for  an  individual to choose a single operating 
system and   have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint?
why  is it an acceptable situation to need   multiple devices in various 
systems to complete tasks.
It certainly was not always  the case.
I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but 
those  should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the 
accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program being 
used.
I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a 
single task   then  incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the 
windows arena.
Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that 
controlling punctuation  should not be something a user can do  on the Android 
platform.  Yet text to speech is not a screen reader,  with google failing to 
understand  this a major concern.
as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not 
have  the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply believe  
access is an impossibility in  general.
However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part 
started with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that  a 
screen reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in theory the 
physical functions  the adaptive tool enhances work in the human body.
Kare
Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using 
adaptive technology  owns?



On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote:

> I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on 
what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other 
VoiceOver users significantly.
>
>
>
> Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. 
That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work 
done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in 
the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. 
Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the 
same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I 
really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work 
properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to 
discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility 
regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers to 
work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of accessibility 
problems as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some applications are 
more accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice versa.
>
>
>
> I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here,

Re: FaceBook on safari

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Also, you could try the Mac version of Google Chrome, to find out whether it 
gives a better result.

On 4/11/20, 18:27, "Michael Marshall"  wrote:

Hey,
I'm sure many people have suggested this already but you're better going to 
Facebook basic, it's better than the mobile version.

> On 11 Apr 2020, at 11:07 pm, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
>   Hi,
> On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face 
book, I cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
> I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this 
site they do work.
> Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
> Thanks.
> patrick 
> 
> -- 
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Visionaries list.
> 
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if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: FaceBook on safari

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, thanks for your answer. Ok, but what is face book basic? I have the app on 
my iPad, and it’s ok, but what and where is basic?
Thanks again.
patrick 

> On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:27 PM, Michael Marshall  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey,
> I'm sure many people have suggested this already but you're better going to 
> Facebook basic, it's better than the mobile version.
> 
>> On 11 Apr 2020, at 11:07 pm, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi,
>> On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face book, I 
>> cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
>> I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this site 
>> they do work.
>> Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
>> Thanks.
>> patrick 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> 
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Re: FaceBook on safari

[Patrick Ford]

Hi, thanks, ok that is a good option.
Patrick 

> On Apr 11, 2020, at 7:24 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Also, you could try the Mac version of Google Chrome, to find out whether it 
> gives a better result.
> 
> On 4/11/20, 18:27, "Michael Marshall"  behalf of mightymaggie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>Hey,
>I'm sure many people have suggested this already but you're better going 
> to Facebook basic, it's better than the mobile version.
> 
>> On 11 Apr 2020, at 11:07 pm, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi,
>> On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face book, I 
>> cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
>> I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this site 
>> they do work.
>> Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
>> Thanks.
>> patrick 
>> 
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Re: Terminal and ssh (was Re: Ios 13.4.1)

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

You used to need a patched version of GNU Screen to run BRLTTY under Mac OS.

 

I haven’t tried it. I can do what I need to with VoiceOver in the Mac terminal. 
Of course, I also have access to a Linux installation on another laptop, with 
BRLTTY fully functional.

 

From: Macvisionaries  on behalf of Anders 
Holmberg 
Reply-To: Macvisionaries 
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 17:44
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Terminal and ssh (was Re: Ios 13.4.1)

 

Hi!

It seems quite complicated to set Brltty up under Mac?

You should install a screen driver and such so i only get confused.

/A



11 apr. 2020 kl. 15:25 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
:

 

BRLTTY in the Linux console is excellent – highly reliable and with a good set 
of features. I would certainly recommend learning the Linux command line 
thoroughly. The BSD UNIX system that Mac OS is based on has a quite similar 
command line interface. After you’ve learned one  UNIX-like system, adapting to 
another is easy.

 

This brings me to a question: how accessible is ssh under iOS or iPad OS these 
days? I know there are apps available for it, but I don’t know how practicable 
it is to use with VoiceOver (both braille and speech).

 

From: Macvisionaries  on behalf of Anders 
Holmberg 
Reply-To: Macvisionaries 
Date: Saturday, April 11, 2020 at 05:39
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

 

Hi Jason and others!

That’s an interesting perspective too.

I also have multiple operating systems here like you. all operating systems has 
their flaws of corse.

But it depends on what you should do with your Computer.

To me braille is very important as i really don’t get the full control with 
speech only.

But i have to use both braille and speech on the mac as it is right now.

Otherwise i don’t get the full control over what’s going on on the screen.

In text only mode in linux braille is working just as i expect it to do.

But then again i have to get through the learning curve of command line 
interface.

And to be honest i am not that clever yet.

/A




10 apr. 2020 kl. 01:58 skrev 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
:

 

I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what 
I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver 
users significantly.

 

Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s why 
I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For 
example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last week 
or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, the 
laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, so it’s 
really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really shouldn’t have 
to move between two computers just to do my work properly, but that’s how it is 
at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss application and screen reader 
crashes on Windows, or accessibility regressions there either, or having to 
switch between Windows screen readers to work around bugs. In my experience, 
the Mac has had its share of accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been 
using it since 2014. Some applications are more accessible under Windows than 
under Mac OS, and vice versa.

 

I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make fair 
comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to have multiple 
operating systems available and to switch between them, as the task requires, 
to work around accessibility problems. I should be able to choose two operating 
systems – one for a laptop/desktop and the other for mobile, and use those 
exclusively, but I don’t envisage that being effective from an accessibility 
perspective for me within the short term or even the medium term. It just isn’t 
workable, given the quality problems across multiple platforms. iOS is adequate 
for my mobile needs, but the desktop/laptop situation is more complex – and 
that’s where I’m doing most of the work, and therefore where I notice the 
problems more. Everyone’s situation is different, of course, and, as usual, the 
people with less technical knowledge will be 

The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on whichever 
platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere.

 

From: Macvisionaries  on behalf of joseph 
hodge 


Reply-To: Macvisionaries 
Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1

 

You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave no 
reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. 

 

I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for one but 
every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still can’t read all 
punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an option. I left Apple 
for a bit and came back some times we have to evaluate things and see how they 
are. Hope you find what your looking for.

 

Re: FaceBook on safari

[Michael Marshall]

hey,
Facebook basic is a lot like the mobile site but you use Safari to go there.
It's a lot like the mobile site used to be when it was good.

> On 12 Apr 2020, at 9:26 am, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> 
> Hi, thanks for your answer. Ok, but what is face book basic? I have the app 
> on my iPad, and it’s ok, but what and where is basic?
> Thanks again.
> patrick 
> 
>> On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:27 PM, Michael Marshall  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey,
>> I'm sure many people have suggested this already but you're better going to 
>> Facebook basic, it's better than the mobile version.
>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2020, at 11:07 pm, Patrick Ford  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face book, 
>>> I cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
>>> I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this site 
>>> they do work.
>>> Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
>>> Thanks.
>>> patrick 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: FaceBook on safari

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On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 08:36 Michael Marshall 
wrote:

> hey,
> Facebook basic is a lot like the mobile site but you use Safari to go
> there.
> It's a lot like the mobile site used to be when it was good.
>
> > On 12 Apr 2020, at 9:26 am, Patrick Ford  wrote:
> >
> > Hi, thanks for your answer. Ok, but what is face book basic? I have the
> app on my iPad, and it’s ok, but what and where is basic?
> > Thanks again.
> > patrick
> >
> >> On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:27 PM, Michael Marshall <
> mightymaggie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey,
> >> I'm sure many people have suggested this already but you're better
> going to Facebook basic, it's better than the mobile version.
> >>
> >>> On 11 Apr 2020, at 11:07 pm, Patrick Ford 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>> On my mac book air, using safari, and using the mobile URL  for face
> book, I cannot get the newsfeed link to function.
> >>> I click on it but nothing happens. When I click on other links on this
> site they do work.
> >>> Is it just that safari  will not function with face book?
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> patrick
> >>>
> >>> --
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> Visionaries list.
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Re: Apple Magic Trackpad 2

[Petrus Tuerlings]

Okay, I’m going to ask a silly question. I’ve never met a magic track pad 
before , and was wondering at the advantages if any in having one as a 
VoiceOver user? 


> On 10/04/2020, at 07:08, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   I currently have the previous model. Does the 2 offer any advantages over 
> the older model?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
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Sent from Petrus' MacBook 

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RE: Apple Magic Trackpad 2

[Simon A Fogarty]

Hi Petrus,

You have one already,
It’s the track pad on your notebook except in this case
The magic track pad 2 is approx. twice the size and in an external format,
They aren’t really different other than they are external and therefore in that 
case use Bluetooth or a lightening cable to both charge and also be used as a 
wired track pad.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Petrus Tuerlings
Sent: Sunday, 12 April 2020 4:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Magic Trackpad 2

Okay, I’m going to ask a silly question. I’ve never met a magic track pad 
before , and was wondering at the advantages if any in having one as a 
VoiceOver user?



On 10/04/2020, at 07:08, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

  I currently have the previous model. Does the 2 offer any advantages over the 
older model?

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Sent from Petrus' MacBook

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Re: Apple Magic Trackpad 2

['E.T.' via MacVisionaries]

   One advantage is if you find the built in trackpad gets in the way, 
an external one would allow you to disable the built in one so touching 
it will not cause issues. Plus you can move it to a convenient location 
like off to the side.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
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On 4/11/2020 9:33 PM, Petrus Tuerlings wrote:
Okay, I’m going to ask a silly question. I’ve never met a magic track 
pad before , and was wondering at the advantages if any in having one as 
a VoiceOver user?



On 10/04/2020, at 07:08, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> wrote:


  I currently have the previous model. Does the 2 offer any advantages 
over the older model?


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Sent from Petrus' MacBook

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