Re: shutting down latest MBP?

[Kliphton Miller]

since there is no eject button, I just go to the apple menu, and select shut 
down.  In theery, you never have to shut it down anyway because the SSD is so 
quick that booting up takes no time at all.  JMO

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> How does one do this?  Thus far, the only way I've found is to do a force 
> quit by pressing and holding the Eject key.
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Major bugs in High Sierra

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I don’t have the busy problem you seem to have.
I only have 8 gig of ram on my Macbook air.
/A

> 25 sep. 2017 kl. 22:29 skrev Joshua Tubbs :
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Just want to caution everyone that it appears impossible to change voices in 
> High Sierra. Where the voices selection is, there’s something about 
> activities.
> 
> Second, I have a 2015 iMac with 16 GB of ram, yet every time I type a message 
> Mail and any other app gets busy busy busy with VoiceOver. This should not! 
> be happening!
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
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Re: shutting down latest MBP?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi, Kliph,

I had to shut it down for external reasons.

Yeah, theoretically, your supposed to be able to use the touchpad to shut it 
down, but that never seems to work for me.  I've never had to shut it down from 
the menu before, so forgot that that was there.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
> 
> since there is no eject button, I just go to the apple menu, and select shut 
> down.  In theery, you never have to shut it down anyway because the SSD is so 
> quick that booting up takes no time at all.  JMO
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> How does one do this?  Thus far, the only way I've found is to do a force 
>> quit by pressing and holding the Eject key.
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: File Vault Nightmare

[Donna Goodin]

Hi, Simon,

I'm running Sierra.

the whole thing was just strange.  I'm starting to wonder if I'm having 
problems with my keyboard.  I kept getting the message user ID or password 
incorrect, and I know I was typing them correctly.  Eventually, Voiceover went 
away, and I couldn't bring it back.  The whole thing was kind of unnerving.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 1:13 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> Which OS version are you using on the MBP?
> 
> I use it on my MBA mid 2013.
> 
> I have to start VO up at log in as it doesn't speak by default any more,
> It talks at this point in a very basic vo voice..
> 
> I get the username field and enter my username and hit enter this gives me 
> the password prompt which I put in and then hit enter,
> And things log in,
> 
> And after a couple of seconds I et the full desktop and the full VO system 
> working and talking as required.
> 
> As for brightness,
> I'm not sure but I can't change the volume on the log in screen I believe due 
> to things not having loaded at that point.
> 
> The reason I ask which OS version is because you have to enable or request 
> file volt to be setup on your harddrive 
> It's not something that normally starts it's installation by itself
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> Simon F
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, 28 September 2017 2:43 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: File Vault Nightmare
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> So, unbeknownst to me, it seems that FileVault is activated by default on the 
> new MBPs.
> 
> This morning I shut my computer off by force quit, because I couldn't get it 
> to shut down normally.  When I got home from work, I tried to restart it.  
> Apparently FileVault was activated.
> 
> I always keep the screen dimmed to save battery power. So, I entered my 
> username, and got absolutely no feedback as to whether it had been entered, 
> much less whether it was entered correctly.  Then I entered my password.  I 
> got the error that my login was incorrect.  I know my password, I was able to 
> successfully enter it on my old MBA.  But repeated tries yielded the same 
> error.
> 
> After a few tries, I lost VO altogether.  Unfortunately, I keep the screen 
> dimmed, to save battery power.  So at  one point in this saga, I found myself 
> without VO, and without the ability to brighten the screen, so I could get 
> sighted assistance.  Eventually, my husband put on two pairs of reading 
> glasses, so he could read what was on the screen.  The only way out of my 
> problem seemed to be to deactivate FileVault.
> 
> What was especially frustrating was the lack of VO support, and the lack of 
> ability to navigate the screen.  For example, I had no way to determine that 
> my username had been entered correctly. my husband eventually saw that there 
> were options like "Forgot Password" "keyboard not working" and so on,  I 
> never saw any of that.  Also, I was completely unable to adjust output.  I 
> could not brighten the screen, so my husband could see it.  I could not turn 
> VO on or off.  I was really wondering at one point whether I was locked out 
> of my MBP permanently.  I don't ever want to go through this again!
> 
> So I know that some of you actually like FileVault.  How the  do you log 
> in?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug

[Donna Goodin]

I've experienced this, too, Mark.  I will definitely send feedback.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 10:57 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Below my signature, you will see a bug report I recently submitted to Apple.
> 
> 
> Please join me in requesting that this bug be resolved in a future release
> of iOS 11.  
> 
> Please feel free to use any or all of the following text in your feedback
> submissions.
> 
> If you are a developer, please use the Apple Bug Reporter.
> 
> If you are not a developer, without going into details as to why, I
> strongly, strongly recommend that you submit your feedback directly to apple
> at:
> https://www.apple.com/feedback/
> 
> or, if you prefer, make your submission to the accessability team via email.
> 
> 
> Regardless of which of the above methods you choose, I also encourage you to
> send feedback, via the feedback utility, located inside the iOS Maps app,
> itself.  To do this:
> 
> 1.
> Open the iOS Maps app.
> 
> 2.
> Select Settings.
> 
> 3.
> Select Report an Issue.  If this is your first time doing so, you will have
> to agree to the terms of the feedback utility.
> 
> 4.
> Select Other Issue, General App Feedback.
> 
> 5.
> Enter up to 1000 characters of a description.
> 
> 6.
> Select the Send button, located near the upper right corner of the display.
> 
> 
> That's all there is to it.
> 
> Okay, as always, thank you for your support.
> 
> Mark
> 
> [BEGIN BUG REPORT]
> TITLE:
> iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug 
> 
> DESCRIPTION:
> Unlike in iOS 10, in iOS 11, VoiceOver does not read the turn-direction
> information, located at the top of the display, in a live route.
> 
> Steps to Reproduce:
> 
> 1.
> Make certain that VoiceOver is enabled.
> 
> 2.
> Launch the Maps apps.
> 
> 3.
> Set a destination and select the Go button to begin the route.
> 
> Siri will announce a direction instruction; for example, "In one mile, turn
> left onto Main Street."  As one travels, the dynamic distance value to Main
> Street is displayed near the top of the screen, complete with an image
> reflecting the upcoming turn instruction.  
> 
> However, when a VoiceOver user places focus on this area in order to hear
> the turn instruction along with the diminishing distance value and the
> street name, unlike in previous versions of iOS where a VoiceOver user
> could, via single-finger swipe gesture, place focus on any of these three
> elements, VoiceOver can now access the distance value and street name, only.
> 
> In order for a VoiceOver user to hear the turn instruction, on demand,
> she/he must single-finger, double-tap the upper left corner of the display
> after which he/she must single-finger, double-tap this area again, in order
> to return to normal VoiceOver screen navigation functionality.  
> 
> In short, in iOS 11, a VoiceOver user is now required to use two additional
> gestures in order to obtain on-demand travel instructions in a live Route.
> Please keep in mind that many blind and low vision travelers use a cane,
> guide dog, or some kind of navigation-assistance tool, requiring the use of
> one hand at all times, making the cost of these two additional gestures
> extremely high.
> 
> I fervently request that VoiceOver Maps app functionality be restored to
> that of iOS 10 so that the upcoming turn-instruction, distance, and upcoming
> street name can be read from the same display screen.
> 
> Thank you.
> [END BUG REPORT]
> 
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Re: File Vault Nightmare

[Donna Goodin]

Hi John,

Re shutting down, I've never had to use the menu item, so had forgotten about 
it being there.  No, I do not get a shut down message when holding down the 
power button, and the CMD-Ctrl-Option-Fn-Power does not seem to accomplish 
anything here.

Re FileVault, when you type your username, can you tell what you are typing?  
In the password field, I could hear the little clicks that indicate that 
characters are being entered.  But I heard nothing in the username field.  And 
it was strange. I would type in my username, then tab to go to password, but 
would be prompted again for username.  I would type my username a second time, 
and then I could go to the password field.  I'd like to use FileVault, but am 
now leery of ending up locked out of my Mac.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 27, 2017, at 8:51 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   Even with FileVault, you can turn on VoiceOver and get speech feedback for 
> the prompts. You should first enter your account and hit enter. Then, type 
> your password and hit enter.
> 
> As for turning off the MBP, provided you have a touch bar, you can hold 
> the power button for a second and you should get the authentication window to 
> shutdown. Also, it's on the Apple menu as well. I believe if you press the FN 
> key with the control-option-command and power button, that should turn it off 
> too. I'll have to check that on my MBP.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:42 PM, Donna Goodin > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> So, unbeknownst to me, it seems that FileVault is activated by default on 
>> the new MBPs.
>> 
>> This morning I shut my computer off by force quit, because I couldn't get it 
>> to shut down normally.  When I got home from work, I tried to restart it.  
>> Apparently FileVault was activated.
>> 
>> I always keep the screen dimmed to save battery power. So, I entered my 
>> username, and got absolutely no feedback as to whether it had been entered, 
>> much less whether it was entered correctly.  Then I entered my password.  I 
>> got the error that my login was incorrect.  I know my password, I was able 
>> to successfully enter it on my old MBA.  But repeated tries yielded the same 
>> error.
>> 
>> After a few tries, I lost VO altogether.  Unfortunately, I keep the screen 
>> dimmed, to save battery power.  So at  one point in this saga, I found 
>> myself without VO, and without the ability to brighten the screen, so I 
>> could get sighted assistance.  Eventually, my husband put on two pairs of 
>> reading glasses, so he could read what was on the screen.  The only way out 
>> of my problem seemed to be to deactivate FileVault.
>> 
>> What was especially frustrating was the lack of VO support, and the lack of 
>> ability to navigate the screen.  For example, I had no way to determine that 
>> my username had been entered correctly. my husband eventually saw that there 
>> were options like "Forgot Password" "keyboard not working" and so on,  I 
>> never saw any of that.  Also, I was completely unable to adjust output.  I 
>> could not brighten the screen, so my husband could see it.  I could not turn 
>> VO on or off.  I was really wondering at one point whether I was locked out 
>> of my MBP permanently.  I don't ever want to go through this again!
>> 
>> So I know that some of you actually like FileVault.  How the  do you log 
>> in?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>>  and your owner is Cara 
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>> 
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Re: 64 bit radium not working after upgrade

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi Mary. There seems to b a bug with this version of Radium when flicking 
through the screen. Tell your friend that he'll have to navigate it via explore 
by touch until it gets fixed. It's not a big showstopper for me as it still 
works just fine. And if I want a particular station I just search for it. HTH.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:33 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hello all. This is the verbatim text of an email I got from a friend of mine 
> who is very upset that he has lost the usability of Radium after upgrade. As 
> you'll see in the text, radium was working fine for him, that is the 64-bit 
> new version, until he upgraded. Now, he's out of luck. Does anybody have any 
> advice here? Here is the text.
> 
> I’ve installed IOS 11.01 on my iPad Mini and my Iphone 6@-plus and Radium 
> does not work correctly on either device. The 64-bit version of Radium worked 
> great on my Iphone running IOS 10.3. I updated my iOS and brought up Radium. 
> Now when I try to flick right to get to my stations I can’t get past my first 
> selected station, playback toggle, share song or station and look for 
> additional stations. No matter how often I flick right I can’t get Radium to 
> move off the initial station and those other choices.
> Sometimes it goes to another station, but randomly.
> I uninstalled radium, but all the app store will let me do when I search for 
> Radium is to re-download the app. When I do that and open it has my same 
> stations and I get the same problem. I’ve uninstalled and re-downloaded twice 
> with no luck.
> The same exact thing happens on my iPad mini. No matter how often I flick 
> right I can’t get past my initially selected station. 
> Any help would be most appreciated.
> I’m really regretting having upgraded.  How do I roll back?
> Thanks. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: VMware Fusion 8

[Nickus de Vos]

I doubt it supported, there is a new version out which supports High Sierra, 
Version 10. As far as I know this is a paid upgrade I haven’t upgraded myself 
yet.

Nickus
Sent from my iPhone, please excuse any typos...

> On 28 Sep 2017, at 06:39, Eric Whitten  wrote:
> 
> I am not sure, because, I have not upgraded yet.
> 
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O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

[Erik Burggraaf]

Hello all,

I was an NFB member for three years, and I am currently a CFB member.  The 
organizations do a lot of things, most of which I personally approve, a few 
of which I don't.  In my limitted experience, the NFB and CFB are both 100% 
supportive of guidedogs.  The NFB has a guide dog division, the national 
association of guide dog users.  They are doing legal advocacy with 
companies like uber on the guide dog issue and access to information to 
make the Uber experience better for the blind.


I'm sorry that some users have had negative experiences with the NFB and 
it's treatment of guide dogs.  The NFB is slow to adapt.  Most of it's bad 
decisions derive from failing to understand and respond to new challenges.  
It's also a huge organization at least as far as the NFB.   The CFB not so 
much.  It's made up of people and people are infinitely diverse.  It has 
more than the usual alotment of caring, generous, thoughtful, hardworking 
people, but it also has assholes, climbers, backstabbers and those sorts 
have a way of positioning themselves so that it can seem like they are 
powerful voices of the organization.  Whatever position the organization 
may have taken on guide dogs in the past, it is now 100% positively and 
pro-actively in support of them now, and has been for the short term of my 
association with them.  Considering the power carried by the NFB in 
deciding for blind Americans what their direction will be, I think it's a 
good idea to let bygones be bygones, and be informed on current issues in 
which the NFB is involved.  That way, you will have a chance to impact the 
future.


As far as Canadian law, federal statute protects the right of guide dog 
users to be served in any public place, as if the guide dog were not 
present.  This includes stores, restaurants, transportation services, 
public accommodations, hospitals, government service centres, and well... I 
can't actually think of an exclusion now that I come to think of it.  If 
the public can go there and get service, so can a guide dog user.  The law 
does not require guide dog users to identify themselves as having or using 
a guide dog.  That would not come under the heading of being served as if 
the dog were not there, would it?  I don't mind disclosing that I have a 
guide dog as long as:

The disclosure is entirely voluntary.
My service is in no way limitted by my disclosure.
As in the case of uber, if there is a rideshare available three minutes 
from my location, but considering my voluntary disclosure of a guide dog, 
my nearest available ride is now 15 minutes away because three or five 
providers near me have opted out of taking dogs.  Not acceptable.


The laws on service animals being different in numerous geographic regions 
where-in Uber operates, but most favouring guide dog users over transport 
providers, the safe thing for Uber to do is erre on the side of caution.  
Especially since they're already being sued.


Best,

Erik



On September 27, 2017 8:06:58 PM Karen Lewellen  
wrote:


Oh neither is mine, I remember when the NFB wanted the state of new York to
bar   the use of service animals in public buildings...and I do not use a
dog myself.
Still, that is all the more reason for uber to incorporate this process
into the app
itself.  Or find an objective way to gather this information.
 Kare



On Wed, 27 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


I will admit, my opinion of the NFB is not good.  Don't worry, I will not
air dirty laundry.  I just didn't like the way they treated a guide dog user
I knew. Who, had a chapter of the NFB, yet was treated like dirt.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: September 27, 2017 2:49 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Uber App and a Guide Dog

I am not writing from a place of cynicism.  instead I feel the source is
more likely  to be preaching to the choir.
why should ubber pay anyone to survey something that  cannot be generalized
in the first place?
I cannot speak to the app itself, but given how many travel variation's are
possible  here, that feels more like the nfb getting names and uber buying
fake pr.
Kare



On Wed, 27 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:


Sorry, when there is money coming from the agency being surveyed, I call

into question the validity of the survey and whether the answers not wanted
go into file 13. I guess as I get older, I become more sinical especially
when it comes to blind agencies.




From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: September 27, 2017 10:27 AM
To: macvisionaries 
Subject: Re: Uber App and a Guide Dog



Also note, that the NFB set up a survey that you can fill out to show the

results of your trip with UBEr or List.  It asks where you were traveling,
when, and with whom. It then asks if the driver knew and abided by the
n

Delete Archive folders?

[Gary Price]

Afternoon everyone!

Please does anyone on here know if it's possible to delete archive folders?
See I've got rid of all my old Emails from last year and 2015.

But even though I've done this, the folders are showing up in Mail on my Mac 
book Pro.

I've got two folders with the word Archive, then a folder with the word 
Archives, followed by 2015 and 2016.


Is there any way of deleting these folders?

Thanks very much.
I look forward to any responses.

Gary Price
Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.

This address is for personal contact:
garypric...@icloud.com

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice

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high sierra impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I made a bootable installer and installed on my 2010 macbook. So far it 
works well, it appears that the issue with Sierra where the speech 
would totally disappear when using Alex or another macintalk voice has 
been resolved. Other than that, it's pretty much the same as Sierra 
was, don't really notice much difference.


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Re: shutting down latest MBP?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Have you tried ctrl+power?

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 28, 2017, at 04:46, Donna Goodin  wrote:

Hi, Kliph,

I had to shut it down for external reasons.

Yeah, theoretically, your supposed to be able to use the touchpad to shut it 
down, but that never seems to work for me.  I've never had to shut it down from 
the menu before, so forgot that that was there.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
> 
> since there is no eject button, I just go to the apple menu, and select shut 
> down.  In theery, you never have to shut it down anyway because the SSD is so 
> quick that booting up takes no time at all.  JMO
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> How does one do this?  Thus far, the only way I've found is to do a force 
>> quit by pressing and holding the Eject key.
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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To post

Re: Delete Archive folders?

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

Some archive folders report of your mail servers configuration that cannot be 
deleted other is like probably the ones that end of 2015 and 2016 should be 
able to be deleted just by using standard delete procedures.

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:22 AM, Gary Price  wrote:
> 
> Afternoon everyone!
> 
> Please does anyone on here know if it's possible to delete archive folders?
> See I've got rid of all my old Emails from last year and 2015.
> 
> But even though I've done this, the folders are showing up in Mail on my Mac 
> book Pro.
> 
> I've got two folders with the word Archive, then a folder with the word 
> Archives, followed by 2015 and 2016.
> 
> 
> Is there any way of deleting these folders?
> 
> Thanks very much.
> I look forward to any responses.
> 
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
> http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice
> 
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Problems with installation

[Caitlyn F]

Hi
Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.

I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
installation has no windows.

What should I do now?

Thanks Caitlyn

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Re: high sierra impressions

[E.T.]

Mike,
   About the voice disappearing, does it fade out to near nothing? Or 
just stop working instantly?


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2017 7:26 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
I made a bootable installer and installed on my 2010 macbook. So far it 
works well, it appears that the issue with Sierra where the speech would 
totally disappear when using Alex or another macintalk voice has been 
resolved. Other than that, it's pretty much the same as Sierra was, 
don't really notice much difference.




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Re: VMware Fusion 8

[E.T.]

   The only information I can find is that version 8.x supports 10.9 
and later. Yes I see version 10 is $50.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2017 5:59 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
I doubt it supported, there is a new version out which supports High 
Sierra, Version 10. As far as I know this is a paid upgrade I haven’t 
upgraded myself yet.


Nickus
Sent from my iPhone, please excuse any typos...

On 28 Sep 2017, at 06:39, Eric Whitten > wrote:



I am not sure, because, I have not upgraded yet.

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Re: Problems with installation

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
password waiting for you.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:

Hi
Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.

I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
installation has no windows.

What should I do now?

Thanks Caitlyn

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Re: iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug

[Robert Cole]

Hi,
Are you able to read the screen showing the directions ahead of time?
For example, If you want to view the rout to see the upcoming directions.
On IOS 10, everytime I  open the screen showing the directions, it will close 
after about 5 or 10  seconds. 
To do this, I tapped on card grabber.
then choose Details.
Now while trying to read the directions, the card grabber, window closes.
You can also use the actions to swipe up on the card grabber to expand it, 
instead of double tapping to open it.

Thanks,
Rob



> On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:57 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Below my signature, you will see a bug report I recently submitted to Apple.
> 
> 
> Please join me in requesting that this bug be resolved in a future release
> of iOS 11.  
> 
> Please feel free to use any or all of the following text in your feedback
> submissions.
> 
> If you are a developer, please use the Apple Bug Reporter.
> 
> If you are not a developer, without going into details as to why, I
> strongly, strongly recommend that you submit your feedback directly to apple
> at:
> https://www.apple.com/feedback/
> 
> or, if you prefer, make your submission to the accessability team via email.
> 
> 
> Regardless of which of the above methods you choose, I also encourage you to
> send feedback, via the feedback utility, located inside the iOS Maps app,
> itself.  To do this:
> 
> 1.
> Open the iOS Maps app.
> 
> 2.
> Select Settings.
> 
> 3.
> Select Report an Issue.  If this is your first time doing so, you will have
> to agree to the terms of the feedback utility.
> 
> 4.
> Select Other Issue, General App Feedback.
> 
> 5.
> Enter up to 1000 characters of a description.
> 
> 6.
> Select the Send button, located near the upper right corner of the display.
> 
> 
> That's all there is to it.
> 
> Okay, as always, thank you for your support.
> 
> Mark
> 
> [BEGIN BUG REPORT]
> TITLE:
> iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug 
> 
> DESCRIPTION:
> Unlike in iOS 10, in iOS 11, VoiceOver does not read the turn-direction
> information, located at the top of the display, in a live route.
> 
> Steps to Reproduce:
> 
> 1.
> Make certain that VoiceOver is enabled.
> 
> 2.
> Launch the Maps apps.
> 
> 3.
> Set a destination and select the Go button to begin the route.
> 
> Siri will announce a direction instruction; for example, "In one mile, turn
> left onto Main Street."  As one travels, the dynamic distance value to Main
> Street is displayed near the top of the screen, complete with an image
> reflecting the upcoming turn instruction.  
> 
> However, when a VoiceOver user places focus on this area in order to hear
> the turn instruction along with the diminishing distance value and the
> street name, unlike in previous versions of iOS where a VoiceOver user
> could, via single-finger swipe gesture, place focus on any of these three
> elements, VoiceOver can now access the distance value and street name, only.
> 
> In order for a VoiceOver user to hear the turn instruction, on demand,
> she/he must single-finger, double-tap the upper left corner of the display
> after which he/she must single-finger, double-tap this area again, in order
> to return to normal VoiceOver screen navigation functionality.  
> 
> In short, in iOS 11, a VoiceOver user is now required to use two additional
> gestures in order to obtain on-demand travel instructions in a live Route.
> Please keep in mind that many blind and low vision travelers use a cane,
> guide dog, or some kind of navigation-assistance tool, requiring the use of
> one hand at all times, making the cost of these two additional gestures
> extremely high.
> 
> I fervently request that VoiceOver Maps app functionality be restored to
> that of iOS 10 so that the upcoming turn-instruction, distance, and upcoming
> street name can be read from the same display screen.
> 
> Thank you.
> [END BUG REPORT]
> 
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Re: Problems with installation

[Erik Burggraaf]

Solution one:
press the mouse or trackpad button once.  I used to run into this during 
instalations and fix it this way.


Solution two::
hold down  control option.  Add fn if needed.  Press f1 twice quickly.  
Choose the window.  You may have to go into system dialogs to find it.


Hope this helps,

Erik


On September 28, 2017 11:27:12 AM Caitlyn F  wrote:

Hi
Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.

I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
installation has no windows.


What should I do now?

Thanks Caitlyn

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RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

[David & his pack of dogs]

I have not been on the NAGDU, or as I like to call it, "Not Another Guide Dog 
User" list for years so, admittedly have no current knowledge about if NFB has 
changed, or not.  MY dealings with them were, they will grab the lime light as 
often as they can, get their nose in things that have nothing to do with 
blindness so they can stay in the lime light and basically treat people within 
their organization like dirt if it is felt they have no voice. I E, if a 
chapter has let's say 15 members and another one has 100, the one with 15 
members is viewed as inconsequential and of little value, not worth even 
listening too. Here is the way the NFB was described to me a long time ago 
after I left it.  They will immediately use an iron fist to get their point 
across, whereas other agencies will use a velvet glove. If they can be in the 
lime light, they could care less about blind people.  

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: September 28, 2017 7:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

Hello all,

I was an NFB member for three years, and I am currently a CFB member.  The 
organizations do a lot of things, most of which I personally approve, a few of 
which I don't.  In my limitted experience, the NFB and CFB are both 100% 
supportive of guidedogs.  The NFB has a guide dog division, the national 
association of guide dog users.  They are doing legal advocacy with companies 
like uber on the guide dog issue and access to information to make the Uber 
experience better for the blind.

I'm sorry that some users have had negative experiences with the NFB and it's 
treatment of guide dogs.  The NFB is slow to adapt.  Most of it's bad decisions 
derive from failing to understand and respond to new challenges.  
It's also a huge organization at least as far as the NFB.   The CFB not so 
much.  It's made up of people and people are infinitely diverse.  It has more 
than the usual alotment of caring, generous, thoughtful, hardworking people, 
but it also has assholes, climbers, backstabbers and those sorts have a way of 
positioning themselves so that it can seem like they are powerful voices of the 
organization.  Whatever position the organization may have taken on guide dogs 
in the past, it is now 100% positively and pro-actively in support of them now, 
and has been for the short term of my association with them.  Considering the 
power carried by the NFB in deciding for blind Americans what their direction 
will be, I think it's a good idea to let bygones be bygones, and be informed on 
current issues in which the NFB is involved.  That way, you will have a chance 
to impact the future.

As far as Canadian law, federal statute protects the right of guide dog users 
to be served in any public place, as if the guide dog were not present.  This 
includes stores, restaurants, transportation services, public accommodations, 
hospitals, government service centres, and well... I can't actually think of an 
exclusion now that I come to think of it.  If the public can go there and get 
service, so can a guide dog user.  The law does not require guide dog users to 
identify themselves as having or using a guide dog.  That would not come under 
the heading of being served as if the dog were not there, would it?  I don't 
mind disclosing that I have a guide dog as long as:
The disclosure is entirely voluntary.
My service is in no way limitted by my disclosure.
As in the case of uber, if there is a rideshare available three minutes from my 
location, but considering my voluntary disclosure of a guide dog, my nearest 
available ride is now 15 minutes away because three or five providers near me 
have opted out of taking dogs.  Not acceptable.

The laws on service animals being different in numerous geographic regions 
where-in Uber operates, but most favouring guide dog users over transport 
providers, the safe thing for Uber to do is erre on the side of caution.  
Especially since they're already being sued.

Best,

Erik



On September 27, 2017 8:06:58 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:

Oh neither is mine, I remember when the NFB wanted the state of new York to
bar   the use of service animals in public buildings...and I do not use a
dog myself.
Still, that is all the more reason for uber to incorporate this process into 
the app itself.  Or find an objective way to gather this information.
  Kare



On Wed, 27 Sep 2017, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

> I will admit, my opinion of the NFB is not good.  Don't worry, I will 
> not air dirty laundry.  I just didn't like the way they treated a 
> guide dog user I knew. Who, had a chapter of the NFB, yet was treated like 
> dirt.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
> Sent: September 27, 2017 2:49 PM
> To: macvisionaries@go

Re: Problems with installation

[Caitlyn F]

Hi
This problem is happening from the recovery partition screen I only get the 
very rudimentary VoiceOver not the full VoiceOver so I don't think I can access 
windows or anything like that I'll try your mouse option though thanks Caitlyn

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Solution one:
> press the mouse or trackpad button once.  I used to run into this during 
> instalations and fix it this way.
> 
> Solution two::
> hold down  control option.  Add fn if needed.  Press f1 twice quickly.  
> Choose the window.  You may have to go into system dialogs to find it.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> On September 28, 2017 11:27:12 AM Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
> 
> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
> installation has no windows.
> 
> What should I do now?
> 
> Thanks Caitlyn
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

[Erik Burggraaf]

It's ultra political no doubt about that.  In my experience, the goods get 
dispursed based on who heads a chapter, just as an example, not necessarily 
on size.  People are people, and it's unfortunate, but you can do one of 
two things.  You can barry your head in the sand and pretend they don't 
exist until you need to trot out the bad.  Or you can persevere, take the 
good they offer with the bad, and try to leverage the good to make a 
difference.


I'm comfortable with the iron fisted approach myself.  The nfb does a lot 
more than bang the drum, but they do bang the drum a lot, and as long as 
they have their facts right, I'm very happy to let them do that.  The 
velvet glove approach screwed me pretty bad, to the tune of 6.5 grand, 
three years, and a successful consulting practice.  Now that I have two 
human rights cases to work on, I'm not really in a velvet glove kind of 
mood.  That doesn't mean I won't compromize, just not to the extent of 
giving up my due process for no value in return or allowing myself to go 
without compensation for lost years, or allowing companies to continue 
using inaccessibly designed infrastructure.


Anyhow, I don't want people saying the nfb doesn't support guide dogs, 
because that isn't true.  I'm sorry you had a bad experience that 
completely put you off the process, but I don't want to miss a chance to 
help some one with advocacy or living skills or travel or anything else 
they need because they heard bad things about say, the cfb, and won't 
approach me.I'm here to help people and despite the fact that it is far 
from perfect, federationism is the best way to advocate for people who are 
blind and against the barriers we face in society.


Best,

Erik


On September 28, 2017 12:06:35 PM "David & his pack of dogs" 
 wrote:


I have not been on the NAGDU, or as I like to call it, "Not Another Guide 
Dog User" list for years so, admittedly have no current knowledge about if 
NFB has changed, or not.  MY dealings with them were, they will grab the 
lime light as often as they can, get their nose in things that have nothing 
to do with blindness so they can stay in the lime light and basically treat 
people within their organization like dirt if it is felt they have no 
voice. I E, if a chapter has let's say 15 members and another one has 100, 
the one with 15 members is viewed as inconsequential and of little value, 
not worth even listening too. Here is the way the NFB was described to me a 
long time ago after I left it.  They will immediately use an iron fist to 
get their point across, whereas other agencies will use a velvet glove. If 
they can be in the lime light, they could care less about blind people.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf

Sent: September 28, 2017 7:07 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

Hello all,

I was an NFB member for three years, and I am currently a CFB member.  The 
organizations do a lot of things, most of which I personally approve, a few 
of which I don't.  In my limitted experience, the NFB and CFB are both 100% 
supportive of guidedogs.  The NFB has a guide dog division, the national 
association of guide dog users.  They are doing legal advocacy with 
companies like uber on the guide dog issue and access to information to 
make the Uber experience better for the blind.


I'm sorry that some users have had negative experiences with the NFB and 
it's treatment of guide dogs.  The NFB is slow to adapt.  Most of it's bad 
decisions derive from failing to understand and respond to new challenges.

It's also a huge organization at least as far as the NFB.   The CFB not so
much.  It's made up of people and people are infinitely diverse.  It has 
more than the usual alotment of caring, generous, thoughtful, hardworking 
people, but it also has assholes, climbers, backstabbers and those sorts 
have a way of positioning themselves so that it can seem like they are 
powerful voices of the organization.  Whatever position the organization 
may have taken on guide dogs in the past, it is now 100% positively and 
pro-actively in support of them now, and has been for the short term of my 
association with them.  Considering the power carried by the NFB in 
deciding for blind Americans what their direction will be, I think it's a 
good idea to let bygones be bygones, and be informed on current issues in 
which the NFB is involved.  That way, you will have a chance to impact the 
future.


As far as Canadian law, federal statute protects the right of guide dog 
users to be served in any public place, as if the guide dog were not 
present.  This includes stores, restaurants, transportation services, 
public accommodations, hospitals, government service centres, and well... I 
can't actually think of an exclusion now that I come to think of it.  If 
the public can go there and get servi

Re: Problems with installation

[Caitlyn F]

Hi Tim
This screen is the recovery partition I think.

It's only the very rudimentary voiceover and I don't have access to the window 
choose her menu.

Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Caitlyn

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
> password waiting for you.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
> 
> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
> installation has no windows.
> 
> What should I do now?
> 
> Thanks Caitlyn
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Update on delete archive folders.

[Gary Price]

Hi everyone.
Tried command backspace for deleting those folders, this didn't work.

Any other ideas?
Gary Price
Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.

This address is for personal contact:
garypric...@icloud.com

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice

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Re: Problems with installation

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Even in the Recovery Partition version of VO, you should have the Application 
Chooser and the Window Chooser.  I use them often when utilities end up not 
having proper focus.  Try VO-f1-f1, the Application Chooser as it will allow 
you to access windows within the applications as well.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:30, Caitlyn F  wrote:

Hi Tim
This screen is the recovery partition I think.

It's only the very rudimentary voiceover and I don't have access to the window 
choose her menu.

Any other suggestions?
Thanks
Caitlyn

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
> password waiting for you.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
> 
> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
> installation has no windows.
> 
> What should I do now?
> 
> Thanks Caitlyn
> 
> -- 
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Re: 64 bit radium not working after upgrade

[Matthew Dierckens]

Explore by touch works, but if you have a ton of favourites as I do, then it 
can be cumbersome.
However, it might be easier for your friend to search for the station.
 
God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, IOS  and Windows Trainer
JAWS for windows Certified - 2016
Canadian Phone: 519-962-9140
U.S. phone: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 08:22, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary. There seems to b a bug with this version of Radium when flicking 
> through the screen. Tell your friend that he'll have to navigate it via 
> explore by touch until it gets fixed. It's not a big showstopper for me as it 
> still works just fine. And if I want a particular station I just search for 
> it. HTH.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:33 PM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all. This is the verbatim text of an email I got from a friend of mine 
>> who is very upset that he has lost the usability of Radium after upgrade. As 
>> you'll see in the text, radium was working fine for him, that is the 64-bit 
>> new version, until he upgraded. Now, he's out of luck. Does anybody have any 
>> advice here? Here is the text.
>> 
>> I’ve installed IOS 11.01 on my iPad Mini and my Iphone 6@-plus and Radium 
>> does not work correctly on either device. The 64-bit version of Radium 
>> worked great on my Iphone running IOS 10.3. I updated my iOS and brought up 
>> Radium. Now when I try to flick right to get to my stations I can’t get past 
>> my first selected station, playback toggle, share song or station and look 
>> for additional stations. No matter how often I flick right I can’t get 
>> Radium to move off the initial station and those other choices.
>> Sometimes it goes to another station, but randomly.
>> I uninstalled radium, but all the app store will let me do when I search for 
>> Radium is to re-download the app. When I do that and open it has my same 
>> stations and I get the same problem. I’ve uninstalled and re-downloaded 
>> twice with no luck.
>> The same exact thing happens on my iPad mini. No matter how often I flick 
>> right I can’t get past my initially selected station. 
>> Any help would be most appreciated.
>> I’m really regretting having upgraded.  How do I roll back?
>> Thanks. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Problems with installation

[Caitlyn F]

Hi Tim
I did try this and all I got was a barking noise.

Thanks
Caitlyn

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Even in the Recovery Partition version of VO, you should have the Application 
> Chooser and the Window Chooser.  I use them often when utilities end up not 
> having proper focus.  Try VO-f1-f1, the Application Chooser as it will allow 
> you to access windows within the applications as well.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:30, Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim
> This screen is the recovery partition I think.
> 
> It's only the very rudimentary voiceover and I don't have access to the 
> window choose her menu.
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> Thanks
> Caitlyn
> 
> Sent from Caitlyn's I phone
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
>> password waiting for you.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
>> 
>> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
>> installation has no windows.
>> 
>> What should I do now?
>> 
>> Thanks Caitlyn
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Problems with installation

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

You may need to hold down the FN key as well when trying the VO-f1-f1 or 
VO-f2-f2.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:01, Caitlyn F  wrote:

Hi Tim
I did try this and all I got was a barking noise.

Thanks
Caitlyn

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Even in the Recovery Partition version of VO, you should have the Application 
> Chooser and the Window Chooser.  I use them often when utilities end up not 
> having proper focus.  Try VO-f1-f1, the Application Chooser as it will allow 
> you to access windows within the applications as well.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:30, Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim
> This screen is the recovery partition I think.
> 
> It's only the very rudimentary voiceover and I don't have access to the 
> window choose her menu.
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> Thanks
> Caitlyn
> 
> Sent from Caitlyn's I phone
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
>> password waiting for you.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
>> 
>> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
>> installation has no windows.
>> 
>> What should I do now?
>> 
>> Thanks Caitlyn
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Problems with installation

[Caitlyn F]

I'm using a full-size keyboard on an iMac

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You may need to hold down the FN key as well when trying the VO-f1-f1 or 
> VO-f2-f2.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:01, Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim
> I did try this and all I got was a barking noise.
> 
> Thanks
> Caitlyn
> 
> Sent from Caitlyn's I phone
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Even in the Recovery Partition version of VO, you should have the 
>> Application Chooser and the Window Chooser.  I use them often when utilities 
>> end up not having proper focus.  Try VO-f1-f1, the Application Chooser as it 
>> will allow you to access windows within the applications as well.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:30, Caitlyn F  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tim
>> This screen is the recovery partition I think.
>> 
>> It's only the very rudimentary voiceover and I don't have access to the 
>> window choose her menu.
>> 
>> Any other suggestions?
>> Thanks
>> Caitlyn
>> 
>> Sent from Caitlyn's I phone
>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
>>> password waiting for you.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
>>> 
>>> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
>>> installation has no windows.
>>> 
>>> What should I do now?
>>> 
>>> Thanks Caitlyn
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
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>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>> 
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>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: Problems with installation

[Tim Kilburn]

The FN key is the top left of the six-pack of keys where the Home/End/Page 
Up/Page Down are.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:09, Caitlyn F  wrote:

I'm using a full-size keyboard on an iMac

Sent from Caitlyn's I phone

> On Sep 28, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> You may need to hold down the FN key as well when trying the VO-f1-f1 or 
> VO-f2-f2.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:01, Caitlyn F  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim
> I did try this and all I got was a barking noise.
> 
> Thanks
> Caitlyn
> 
> Sent from Caitlyn's I phone
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Even in the Recovery Partition version of VO, you should have the 
>> Application Chooser and the Window Chooser.  I use them often when utilities 
>> end up not having proper focus.  Try VO-f1-f1, the Application Chooser as it 
>> will allow you to access windows within the applications as well.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 10:30, Caitlyn F  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tim
>> This screen is the recovery partition I think.
>> 
>> It's only the very rudimentary voiceover and I don't have access to the 
>> window choose her menu.
>> 
>> Any other suggestions?
>> Thanks
>> Caitlyn
>> 
>> Sent from Caitlyn's I phone
>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Try the Window Chooser with VO-f2-f2 and see if there is a request for a 
>>> password waiting for you.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 09:26, Caitlyn F  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> Today I started to install the latest operating system on my Mac.
>>> 
>>> I started at 9 o'clock this morning and now I'm getting a screen that says 
>>> installation has no windows.
>>> 
>>> What should I do now?
>>> 
>>> Thanks Caitlyn
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

[David & his pack of dogs]

I understand where you are coming from re: the iron fist approach.  Let's use 
the guide dog access as an example.  Upon entering a restaurant, you are 
promptly told, "You can't bring that dog in here!!!  No animals aloud
The iron fist approach is to loudly proclaim, "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!
The velvet glove approach is too show them the law and try and reason with 
them. To put you in the picture so my comment has credibility, an agency told 
me I could not bring in my guide dog because people might be allergic to him.  
They stuck to the phrase "might be allergic to them" like a strong magnet and 
refused to budge even when there was over whelming evidence that no one was 
allergic to him.  To speed the story up, the adjudicator at the tribunal told 
us, "They just don't get it." The other thing was they felt they were above any 
law.  After shown the public access law on multiple occations, they  attempted 
to re-write it by saying, "We can't tell you not to bring your guide we can 
however, tell you where you should sit."  The entire process took 2 years from 
inception to going to a tribunal over their arrogance or obstinence. They 
foolishly felt if they said he was in the way, smelled and people might be 
allergic to him, with 18 letters and a picture of a little girl with swollen 
eyes from an allergic reaction, it would help their case.  Naturally, it did 
not.  The picture?  The adjudicator put it best when she said, "There is no 
date on this picture and nothing to indicate that the child was not having a 
reaction to something else."  I think the apparent arrogance of the respondence 
tried her patients. What organization a person belongs too, either the ACB NFB 
or CFB, makes no difference to me, as long as they handle things properly. If 
you want a laugh, where we used to live the Canadian army and navy were quite 
prevalent.  So, upon meeting a person who introduced herself as belonging to 
the CFB, I thought she was talking about the Canadian forces base.  Also called 
the CFB.   

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: September 28, 2017 9:20 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

It's ultra political no doubt about that.  In my experience, the goods get 
dispursed based on who heads a chapter, just as an example, not necessarily on 
size.  People are people, and it's unfortunate, but you can do one of two 
things.  You can barry your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist until 
you need to trot out the bad.  Or you can persevere, take the good they offer 
with the bad, and try to leverage the good to make a difference.

I'm comfortable with the iron fisted approach myself.  The nfb does a lot more 
than bang the drum, but they do bang the drum a lot, and as long as they have 
their facts right, I'm very happy to let them do that.  The velvet glove 
approach screwed me pretty bad, to the tune of 6.5 grand, three years, and a 
successful consulting practice.  Now that I have two human rights cases to work 
on, I'm not really in a velvet glove kind of mood.  That doesn't mean I won't 
compromize, just not to the extent of giving up my due process for no value in 
return or allowing myself to go without compensation for lost years, or 
allowing companies to continue using inaccessibly designed infrastructure.

Anyhow, I don't want people saying the nfb doesn't support guide dogs, because 
that isn't true.  I'm sorry you had a bad experience that completely put you 
off the process, but I don't want to miss a chance to help some one with 
advocacy or living skills or travel or anything else they need because they 
heard bad things about say, the cfb, and won't 
approach me.I'm here to help people and despite the fact that it is far 
from perfect, federationism is the best way to advocate for people who are 
blind and against the barriers we face in society.

Best,

Erik


On September 28, 2017 12:06:35 PM "David & his pack of dogs" 
 wrote:

I have not been on the NAGDU, or as I like to call it, "Not Another Guide Dog 
User" list for years so, admittedly have no current knowledge about if NFB has 
changed, or not.  MY dealings with them were, they will grab the lime light as 
often as they can, get their nose in things that have nothing to do with 
blindness so they can stay in the lime light and basically treat people within 
their organization like dirt if it is felt they have no voice. I E, if a 
chapter has let's say 15 members and another one has 100, the one with 15 
members is viewed as inconsequential and of little value, not worth even 
listening too. Here is the way the NFB was described to me a long time ago 
after I left it.  They will immediately use an iron fist to get their point 
across, whereas other agencies will use a velvet glove. If they can be in the 
lime light, they could care less about blind

Re: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

[E.T.]

Mark and Cara,
   Can we redirect this group back on topic? Unless Apple has developed 
Apple Guide Dogs, we should save those discussions for a more suitable 
forum. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2017 10:16 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:

I understand where you are coming from re: the iron fist approach.  Let's use the 
guide dog access as an example.  Upon entering a restaurant, you are promptly told, 
"You can't bring that dog in here!!!  No animals aloud
The iron fist approach is to loudly proclaim, "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!
The velvet glove approach is too show them the law and try and reason with them. To put you in the picture so my 
comment has credibility, an agency told me I could not bring in my guide dog because people might be allergic to him.  
They stuck to the phrase "might be allergic to them" like a strong magnet and refused to budge even when 
there was over whelming evidence that no one was allergic to him.  To speed the story up, the adjudicator at the 
tribunal told us, "They just don't get it." The other thing was they felt they were above any law.  After 
shown the public access law on multiple occations, they  attempted to re-write it by saying, "We can't tell you 
not to bring your guide we can however, tell you where you should sit."  The entire process took 2 years from 
inception to going to a tribunal over their arrogance or obstinence. They foolishly felt if they said he was in the 
way, smelled and people might be allergic to him, with 18 letters and a picture of a little girl with swollen eyes from 
an allergic reaction, it would help their case.  Naturally, it did not.  The picture?  The adjudicator put it best when 
she said, "There is no date on this picture and nothing to indicate that the child was not having a reaction to 
something else."  I think the apparent arrogance of the respondence tried her patients. What organization a person 
belongs too, either the ACB NFB or CFB, makes no difference to me, as long as they handle things properly. If you want 
a laugh, where we used to live the Canadian army and navy were quite prevalent.  So, upon meeting a person who 
introduced herself as belonging to the CFB, I thought she was talking about the Canadian forces base.  Also called the 
CFB.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
Sent: September 28, 2017 9:20 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

It's ultra political no doubt about that.  In my experience, the goods get 
dispursed based on who heads a chapter, just as an example, not necessarily on 
size.  People are people, and it's unfortunate, but you can do one of two 
things.  You can barry your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist until 
you need to trot out the bad.  Or you can persevere, take the good they offer 
with the bad, and try to leverage the good to make a difference.

I'm comfortable with the iron fisted approach myself.  The nfb does a lot more 
than bang the drum, but they do bang the drum a lot, and as long as they have 
their facts right, I'm very happy to let them do that.  The velvet glove 
approach screwed me pretty bad, to the tune of 6.5 grand, three years, and a 
successful consulting practice.  Now that I have two human rights cases to work 
on, I'm not really in a velvet glove kind of mood.  That doesn't mean I won't 
compromize, just not to the extent of giving up my due process for no value in 
return or allowing myself to go without compensation for lost years, or 
allowing companies to continue using inaccessibly designed infrastructure.

Anyhow, I don't want people saying the nfb doesn't support guide dogs, because 
that isn't true.  I'm sorry you had a bad experience that completely put you 
off the process, but I don't want to miss a chance to help some one with 
advocacy or living skills or travel or anything else they need because they 
heard bad things about say, the cfb, and won't
approach me.I'm here to help people and despite the fact that it is far
from perfect, federationism is the best way to advocate for people who are 
blind and against the barriers we face in society.

Best,

Erik


On September 28, 2017 12:06:35 PM "David & his pack of dogs"
 wrote:

I have not been on the NAGDU, or as I like to call it, "Not Another Guide Dog 
User" list for years so, admittedly have no current knowledge about if NFB has 
changed, or not.  MY dealings with them were, they will grab the lime light as often as 
they can, get their nose in things that have nothing to do with blindness so they can 
stay in the lime light and basically treat people within their organization like dirt if 
it is fe

making a bootable installer for high sierra

[Mike Arrigo]

Here are the instructions I used to make a bootable install, I used an 
8 GB SD card, but a flash drive would work just as well. The 
application that is used is totally accessible with voiceover.

https://www.macworld.com/article/3204672/macs/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-high-sierra-beta-installer-drive.html

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Re: High Sieara not showing up in updates

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

Hi Sierra would not show up as an update, but  rather as an app n the App 
Store.  Doing a search for it in the App Store should get you what you want.  
If you were running hi Sierra and an update had been released this would show 
up on the update.  HTH.

Matthew


> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:28 PM, Agent086b  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I know High Sierra is out. When I check for updates it does not show up. When 
> latest Safari came out a week or Two ago it showed up as an update. 
> Thanks for any advice on this one.
> Max.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: high sierra impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

In Sierra it would just stop completely as if it was muted, only a 
reboot would bring it back.

Original message:

Mike,
About the voice disappearing, does it fade out to near nothing? Or
just stop working instantly?



 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com



On 9/28/2017 7:26 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:

I made a bootable installer and installed on my 2010 macbook. So far it
works well, it appears that the issue with Sierra where the speech would
totally disappear when using Alex or another macintalk voice has been
resolved. Other than that, it's pretty much the same as Sierra was,
don't really notice much difference.




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RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

[David & his pack of dogs]

I agree. However, is this not calling the kettle black? I will say no more on 
this topic.   
"E.T for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say E.T did it."
---the world according to E.T Smile.  
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of E.T.
Sent: September 28, 2017 10:25 AM
To: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog

Mark and Cara,
Can we redirect this group back on topic? Unless Apple has developed Apple 
Guide Dogs, we should save those discussions for a more suitable forum. Thanks.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/28/2017 10:16 AM, David & his pack of dogs wrote:
> I understand where you are coming from re: the iron fist approach.  Let's use 
> the guide dog access as an example.  Upon entering a restaurant, you are 
> promptly told, "You can't bring that dog in here!!!  No animals aloud
> The iron fist approach is to loudly proclaim, "YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!
> The velvet glove approach is too show them the law and try and reason with 
> them. To put you in the picture so my comment has credibility, an agency told 
> me I could not bring in my guide dog because people might be allergic to him. 
>  They stuck to the phrase "might be allergic to them" like a strong magnet 
> and refused to budge even when there was over whelming evidence that no one 
> was allergic to him.  To speed the story up, the adjudicator at the tribunal 
> told us, "They just don't get it." The other thing was they felt they were 
> above any law.  After shown the public access law on multiple occations, they 
>  attempted to re-write it by saying, "We can't tell you not to bring your 
> guide we can however, tell you where you should sit."  The entire process 
> took 2 years from inception to going to a tribunal over their arrogance or 
> obstinence. They foolishly felt if they said he was in the way, smelled and 
> people might be allergic to him, with 18 letters and a picture of a little 
> girl with swollen eyes from an allergic reaction, it would help their case.  
> Naturally, it did not.  The picture?  The adjudicator put it best when she 
> said, "There is no date on this picture and nothing to indicate that the 
> child was not having a reaction to something else."  I think the apparent 
> arrogance of the respondence tried her patients. What organization a person 
> belongs too, either the ACB NFB or CFB, makes no difference to me, as long as 
> they handle things properly. If you want a laugh, where we used to live the 
> Canadian army and navy were quite prevalent.  So, upon meeting a person who 
> introduced herself as belonging to the CFB, I thought she was talking about 
> the Canadian forces base.  Also called the CFB.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Burggraaf
> Sent: September 28, 2017 9:20 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: O/T RE: NFB, Uber App and a Guide Dog
> 
> It's ultra political no doubt about that.  In my experience, the goods get 
> dispursed based on who heads a chapter, just as an example, not necessarily 
> on size.  People are people, and it's unfortunate, but you can do one of two 
> things.  You can barry your head in the sand and pretend they don't exist 
> until you need to trot out the bad.  Or you can persevere, take the good they 
> offer with the bad, and try to leverage the good to make a difference.
> 
> I'm comfortable with the iron fisted approach myself.  The nfb does a lot 
> more than bang the drum, but they do bang the drum a lot, and as long as they 
> have their facts right, I'm very happy to let them do that.  The velvet glove 
> approach screwed me pretty bad, to the tune of 6.5 grand, three years, and a 
> successful consulting practice.  Now that I have two human rights cases to 
> work on, I'm not really in a velvet glove kind of mood.  That doesn't mean I 
> won't compromize, just not to the extent of giving up my due process for no 
> value in return or allowing myself to go without compensation for lost years, 
> or allowing companies to continue using inaccessibly designed infrastructure.
> 
> Anyhow, I don't want people saying the nfb doesn't support guide dogs, 
> because that isn't true.  I'm sorry you had a bad experience that completely 
> put you off the process, but I don't want to miss a chance to help some one 
> with advocacy or living skills or travel or anything else they need because 
> they heard bad things about say, the cfb, and won't
> approach me.I'm here to help peop

Re: High Sieara not showing up in updates

[Agent086b]

Thanks I have seen it. If I was not on a list how would I know there was a new 
version. I am thinking of just the general public. I have several friends who 
just don’t follow tech news.
Max.
> On 29 Sep 2017, at 6:47 am, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hi Sierra would not show up as an update, but  rather as an app n the App 
> Store.  Doing a search for it in the App Store should get you what you want.  
> If you were running hi Sierra and an update had been released this would show 
> up on the update.  HTH.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 6:28 PM, Agent086b  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I know High Sierra is out. When I check for updates it does not show up. 
>> When latest Safari came out a week or Two ago it showed up as an update. 
>> Thanks for any advice on this one.
>> Max.
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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> 
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: making a bootable installer for high sierra

[matthew dyer]

Mike.  Thanks for the article.  I have bookmarked the URL so I can refer to it 
as I am ho[ping to do the upgrade this weekend.  BTW, Is it no longer possible 
to copy the recovery from the internal partition as it was in el caption?  Just 
wondered as I heard a demo of your upgrade from 10.10 to 10.11 on blindgeekzone 
I think it was.

Thanks again.

Matthew


> On Sep 28, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Here are the instructions I used to make a bootable install, I used an 8 GB 
> SD card, but a flash drive would work just as well. The application that is 
> used is totally accessible with voiceover.
> https://www.macworld.com/article/3204672/macs/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-high-sierra-beta-installer-drive.html
> 
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Re: high sierra impressions

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

I had this problem some time ago and after doing a clean install of Sierra some 
time ago, the problem fixed itself.  Glad to hear it is fixed though.

Matthew


> On Sep 28, 2017, at 5:04 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> In Sierra it would just stop completely as if it was muted, only a reboot 
> would bring it back.
> Original message:
>> Mike,
>>About the voice disappearing, does it fade out to near nothing? Or
>> just stop working instantly?
> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 9/28/2017 7:26 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>> I made a bootable installer and installed on my 2010 macbook. So far it
>>> works well, it appears that the issue with Sierra where the speech would
>>> totally disappear when using Alex or another macintalk voice has been
>>> resolved. Other than that, it's pretty much the same as Sierra was,
>>> don't really notice much difference.
> 
> 
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Re: shutting down latest MBP?

[Donna Goodin]

Just did, and nothing happened.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Have you tried ctrl+power?
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 04:46, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Kliph,
> 
> I had to shut it down for external reasons.
> 
> Yeah, theoretically, your supposed to be able to use the touchpad to shut it 
> down, but that never seems to work for me.  I've never had to shut it down 
> from the menu before, so forgot that that was there.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> since there is no eject button, I just go to the apple menu, and select shut 
>> down.  In theery, you never have to shut it down anyway because the SSD is 
>> so quick that booting up takes no time at all.  JMO
>> 
>>> On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> How does one do this?  Thus far, the only way I've found is to do a force 
>>> quit by pressing and holding the Eject key.
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: making a bootable installer for high sierra

[Mike Arrigo]

The recovery disk assistant provided by Apple does not work in Sierra, so I'm 
assuming it doesn't work in high Sierra either. If you Carbon Copy Cloner, it 
does offer the option to install a recovery on to your backup drive.
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 5:19 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Mike.  Thanks for the article.  I have bookmarked the URL so I can refer to 
> it as I am ho[ping to do the upgrade this weekend.  BTW, Is it no longer 
> possible to copy the recovery from the internal partition as it was in el 
> caption?  Just wondered as I heard a demo of your upgrade from 10.10 to 10.11 
> on blindgeekzone I think it was.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> Here are the instructions I used to make a bootable install, I used an 8 GB 
>> SD card, but a flash drive would work just as well. The application that is 
>> used is totally accessible with voiceover.
>> https://www.macworld.com/article/3204672/macs/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-high-sierra-beta-installer-drive.html
>> 
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Re: high sierra impressions

[Mike Arrigo]

I had done a clean install of Sierra and had the issue on two of my macs, but 
not my newest mac mini. I'm glad it's fixed too.
> On Sep 28, 2017, at 5:41 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I had this problem some time ago and after doing a clean install of Sierra 
> some time ago, the problem fixed itself.  Glad to hear it is fixed though.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 5:04 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
>> 
>> In Sierra it would just stop completely as if it was muted, only a reboot 
>> would bring it back.
>> Original message:
>>> Mike,
>>>   About the voice disappearing, does it fade out to near nothing? Or
>>> just stop working instantly?
>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 9/28/2017 7:26 AM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
 I made a bootable installer and installed on my 2010 macbook. So far it
 works well, it appears that the issue with Sierra where the speech would
 totally disappear when using Alex or another macintalk voice has been
 resolved. Other than that, it's pretty much the same as Sierra was,
 don't really notice much difference.
>> 
>> 
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Uber debate

[Jonathan Cohn]

Mark / Cara,

My apologies for the message I sent about Guide Dogs and UBER, I knew I was 
getting a little snarky at the end and it certainly made a few folks over talk 
the NFB / CFB/ ACB. I should have deleted the last sentence.

Sometimes it just gets difficult to hold ones tongue though. 

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



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Re: Update on delete archive folders.

[Jonathan Cohn]

TO the best of my knowledge there is no direct keystroke by default to delete a 
folder. One could of course have created a application specific keystroke to do 
this. 

. In the Mailbox menu there is also  a delete folder … item listed. Pressing 
this should prompt to verify that you want to delete  a folder.



Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Gary Price  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone.
> Tried command backspace for deleting those folders, this didn't work.
> 
> Any other ideas?
> Gary Price
> Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.
> 
> This address is for personal contact:
> garypric...@icloud.com
> 
> Twitter:
> http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice
> 
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RE: iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug

[M. Taylor]

Hello Robert, 

The scenario you described is the same in iOS 11.  This is definitely a bug.  
Please report it, okay?

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Robert Cole
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 8:47 AM
To: Email Groups
Subject: Re: iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug

Hi,
Are you able to read the screen showing the directions ahead of time?
For example, If you want to view the rout to see the upcoming directions.
On IOS 10, everytime I  open the screen showing the directions, it will close 
after about 5 or 10  seconds. 
To do this, I tapped on card grabber.
then choose Details.
Now while trying to read the directions, the card grabber, window closes.
You can also use the actions to swipe up on the card grabber to expand it, 
instead of double tapping to open it.

Thanks,
Rob



> On Sep 27, 2017, at 11:57 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Below my signature, you will see a bug report I recently submitted to Apple.
> 
> 
> Please join me in requesting that this bug be resolved in a future 
> release of iOS 11.
> 
> Please feel free to use any or all of the following text in your 
> feedback submissions.
> 
> If you are a developer, please use the Apple Bug Reporter.
> 
> If you are not a developer, without going into details as to why, I 
> strongly, strongly recommend that you submit your feedback directly to 
> apple
> at:
> https://www.apple.com/feedback/
> 
> or, if you prefer, make your submission to the accessability team via email.
> 
> 
> Regardless of which of the above methods you choose, I also encourage 
> you to send feedback, via the feedback utility, located inside the iOS 
> Maps app, itself.  To do this:
> 
> 1.
> Open the iOS Maps app.
> 
> 2.
> Select Settings.
> 
> 3.
> Select Report an Issue.  If this is your first time doing so, you will 
> have to agree to the terms of the feedback utility.
> 
> 4.
> Select Other Issue, General App Feedback.
> 
> 5.
> Enter up to 1000 characters of a description.
> 
> 6.
> Select the Send button, located near the upper right corner of the display.
> 
> 
> That's all there is to it.
> 
> Okay, as always, thank you for your support.
> 
> Mark
> 
> [BEGIN BUG REPORT]
> TITLE:
> iOS 11 Maps VoiceOver Reading-Turn-Instruction Bug
> 
> DESCRIPTION:
> Unlike in iOS 10, in iOS 11, VoiceOver does not read the 
> turn-direction information, located at the top of the display, in a live 
> route.
> 
> Steps to Reproduce:
> 
> 1.
> Make certain that VoiceOver is enabled.
> 
> 2.
> Launch the Maps apps.
> 
> 3.
> Set a destination and select the Go button to begin the route.
> 
> Siri will announce a direction instruction; for example, "In one mile, 
> turn left onto Main Street."  As one travels, the dynamic distance 
> value to Main Street is displayed near the top of the screen, complete 
> with an image reflecting the upcoming turn instruction.
> 
> However, when a VoiceOver user places focus on this area in order to 
> hear the turn instruction along with the diminishing distance value 
> and the street name, unlike in previous versions of iOS where a 
> VoiceOver user could, via single-finger swipe gesture, place focus on 
> any of these three elements, VoiceOver can now access the distance value and 
> street name, only.
> 
> In order for a VoiceOver user to hear the turn instruction, on demand, 
> she/he must single-finger, double-tap the upper left corner of the 
> display after which he/she must single-finger, double-tap this area 
> again, in order to return to normal VoiceOver screen navigation functionality.
> 
> In short, in iOS 11, a VoiceOver user is now required to use two 
> additional gestures in order to obtain on-demand travel instructions in a 
> live Route.
> Please keep in mind that many blind and low vision travelers use a 
> cane, guide dog, or some kind of navigation-assistance tool, requiring 
> the use of one hand at all times, making the cost of these two 
> additional gestures extremely high.
> 
> I fervently request that VoiceOver Maps app functionality be restored 
> to that of iOS 10 so that the upcoming turn-instruction, distance, and 
> upcoming street name can be read from the same display screen.
> 
> Thank you.
> [END BUG REPORT]
> 
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RE: Update on delete archive folders.

[M. Taylor]

Hello Gary,

I am, by no means, versed in these kinds of things; however, it would seem to 
me that it would be beneficial to remember that the Mac Mail application is 
merely a client.

Therefore, were I you, I would focus my efforts on modifying core folder 
structure on the server.  For all intent and purposes, this access is granted 
via a web browser.  

So, for example, when I need to make major changes to my Google account, I use 
a web browser and login and edit my preferences'. Then, when next I open my 
mail client, be it Outlook or Apple Mail, the changes are immediately reflected 
via the iMap protocol.

Good Luck,

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Gary Price
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:55 AM
To: Mac Visionaries List
Subject: Update on delete archive folders.

Hi everyone.
Tried command backspace for deleting those folders, this didn't work.

Any other ideas?
Gary Price
Sent from my 13 inch Mac book pro.

This address is for personal contact:
garypric...@icloud.com

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/gazwprice

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iOS 11 Maps App Card Grabber TimeOut VoiceOver Bug

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

Below my signature, you will see a bug report I recently submitted to Apple.


Please join me in requesting that this bug be resolved in a future release
of iOS 11.  

Please feel free to use any or all of the following text in your feedback
submissions.

If you are a developer, please use the Apple Bug Reporter.

If you are not a developer, I strongly, strongly recommend that you submit
your feedback directly to apple at:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/

or, if you prefer, make your submission to the accessability team via email.


Regardless of which of the above methods you choose, I also encourage you to
send feedback, via the feedback utility, located inside the iOS Maps app,
itself.  To do this:

1.
Open the iOS Maps app.

2.
Select Settings.

3.
Select Report an Issue.  If this is your first time doing so, you will have
to agree to the terms of the feedback utility.

4.
Select Other Issue, General App Feedback.

5.
Enter up to 1000 characters of a description.

6.
Select the Send button, located near the upper right corner of the display.


That's all there is to it.

Thank you for your support.

Mark

[BEGIN BUG REPORT]
TITLE:
iOS 11 Maps App Card Grabber TimeOut VoiceOver Bug

DESCRIPTION:
In iOS 11, only when VoiceOver is enabled, the full-screen Card Grabber
display, times-out after 10 seconds, when reviewing the live route details
list.

Steps to Reproduce:

1.
Make certain that VoiceOver is enabled.

2.
Open Map and activate a route by selecting a destination and tapping the GO
button.  Siri will announce a direction instruction; for example, "In one
mile, turn left onto Main Street."  

3.
Single-finger, double-tap the "Arrival" label, located near the lower left
of the display in order to activate the Card Grabber which will bring up
various route options.

4.
Select Details.  A directions list will be displayed.  Unlike for a
non-VoiceOver user, for whom this list will remain on the screen until the
DONE button is activated, after approximately ten seconds with or without
screen activity, the list will disappear as if the VoiceOver user activated
the DONE button.

Please see attached screen recording for a demonstration of this bug.

I would greatly appreciate your attention to this issue.

Thank you,
[END BUG REPORT]


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Re: shutting down latest MBP?

[Michelle's Home Emails]

Hi Donna

Michelle here, 

This may seem like a dumb idea to shut down your mac did you make sure no 
programmes are running in the background? 

I apolagies in advance if I got it wrong. 

Michelle  

Sent from Michelle's  iPhone

> On 29 Sep 2017, at 9:50 am, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Just did, and nothing happened.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 9:27 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Have you tried ctrl+power?
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 04:46, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, Kliph,
>> 
>> I had to shut it down for external reasons.
>> 
>> Yeah, theoretically, your supposed to be able to use the touchpad to shut it 
>> down, but that never seems to work for me.  I've never had to shut it down 
>> from the menu before, so forgot that that was there.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Sep 28, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Kliphton Miller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> since there is no eject button, I just go to the apple menu, and select 
>>> shut down.  In theery, you never have to shut it down anyway because the 
>>> SSD is so quick that booting up takes no time at all.  JMO
>>> 
 On Sep 27, 2017, at 9:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 How does one do this?  Thus far, the only way I've found is to do a force 
 quit by pressing and holding the Eject key.
 TIA,
 Donna
 
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How to put a sleep timer shortcut on your Mac desktop - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET How To - Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 1:32 PM
How to put a sleep timer shortcut on your Mac desktop - CNET
 Taylor Martin/CNET 
If you ever find yourself in a situation where you want to shut down your
Mac after a time-consuming process has finished, such as downloading and
installing updates, or exporting a video, what you need is a shutdown timer.
A few applications for this exist in the Mac App Store, such as Timer Boom
and the aptly named Shutdown Timer. But you don't need any dedicated
software. All you need is this simple trick.
Read more: If you're looking for a shutdown timer on Windows, there's a
quick tip for that, as well.
A built-in power schedule
Under Energy Saver settings, MacOS has a built-in wake and sleep schedule.
 Taylor Martin/CNET 
To enable it and create a schedule, go to System Preferences > Energy Saver
and click Schedule... in the lower right corner of the window. There you can
set a time and day (weekends or weekdays, too) that the Mac will start up or
wake, as well as a time and day(s) when it will restart, shut down or sleep.
As useful as the schedule feature is, it's limited in how it can work.
Still, you could use it to shut down your computer at a specific time. Just
select a time for the sleep or shutdown to happen after the process is
expected to finish.
Make your own shutdown timer
If you want a shutdown timer that's more adaptable, you only need to know a
few terminal commands.
The shutdown command will, as expected, shut down your Mac when used in
Terminal. But there are some important options that you will also want to
use to make this shutdown timer meet your needs.
.   -h will halt the system at a specified time.
.   -r will reboot instead of shutdown.
.   -s will put the Mac to sleep instead of shutdown.
There are other options, which you can read more about in Apple's shutdown
documentation, but for the purpose of a shutdown timer, -h, -r and -s are
likely all you will need to know.
This is a shutdown timer command for 15 minutes with a pid of 842.
Taylor Martin/CNET 
If you remember this shutdown command, you can simply open Terminal and
enter the command to create a shutdown timer. Some example shutdown timer
commands would look like: 
.   A 15-minute shutdown timer: sudo shutdown -h +15
.   A 30-minute restart timer: sudo shutdown -r +30
.   A 1-hour sleep timer: sudo shutdown -s +60
When you enter one of these commands, you will need to enter the password
for the user account and press return. The shutdown timer will then be
created, giving you the exact time and date that the shutdown/restart/sleep
process will occur. It will also give you the process ID, also known as a
pid, which is a three- to four-digit number.
If you wish to cancel a shutdown timer, take note of its pid and enter this
command in Terminal: sudo kill [pid number].
Create a shutdown timer desktop shortcut
If you find yourself using the same shutdown timer often, you may want to
create a desktop shortcut for the timer.
To do this, open TextEdit and click New Document. This opens a blank text
document. If the document is not in plain text, press command + shift + T to
switch to plain text.
 
A partially complete script for a shutdown timer.
Taylor Martin/CNET 
On the very top line of the text file, type #!/bin/bash. This tells the
operating system that the command should be executed using Bash.
Press return twice, and on the third line, enter your shutdown timer
command, such as sudo shutdown -h +15. Save the file to Desktop and give it
a simple name, like shutdown. Before clicking Save, make sure to uncheck the
box beside If no extension is provided, use ".txt". Click Save.
Finally, we need to make the file executable. Open terminal and change
directory to Desktop by typing cd /Users/[username]/Desktop and press enter.
Next, type chmod 774 shutdown and press enter.
Now if you double-click the shutdown shortcut on your desktop, Terminal will
open, prompting you to enter your user password. Once entered, the timer
will begin.
If you want to replace the default icon of an executable file, click to
highlight the icon and press command + I. This opens the info page for the
shortcut. Open the image you want to use in Preview and press command + A to
select all and command + C to copy. Lastly, in the info window for the
shutdown timer, click the logo in the top left corner to highlight it, then
press command + V to paste the image.

Original Article at:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-put-a-sleep-timer-shortcut-on-your-mac-de
sktop/#ftag=CAD5457c2c


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macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups

Put a shutdown timer on your Windows desktop with this command - CNET

[M. Taylor]

Postpone shutting down your computer with this quick and easy shortcut.

by  
Taylor Martin  

 / March 3, 2017 12:43 PM PST

Taylor Martin/CNET 

 Watch this:  Put a shutdown timer on your Windows desktop with this... 

1:24  

If you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to leave your
computer on for several hours, but you want it to shut down once a certain
process has finished, reddit user excelhelpneeded111 has a surprisingly
simple solution. You don't need any third-party software, and it will only
take a minute or two to set up.

Create a shutdown timer for Windows

To create a shutdown timer manually, open Command Prompt and type the
command shutdown -s -t . The "" should be the time in seconds you
want to elapse before the computer shuts down. For instance, if you want the
computer to shut down in 2 hours, the command should look like shutdown -s
-t 7200.

If you want to restart your computer on a delay, use shutdown -r -t 
instead.

To cancel the timer, open the Run window or Command Prompt again and enter
shutdown -a.

Create a shutdown timer shortcut

If you need to use a shutdown timer regularly, you can take this trick one
step further by turning it into a desktop shortcut.

shutdown-timer-windows-shortcut.pngEnlarge Image

Taylor Martin/CNET 
.Right-click on the desktop, hover over New and select Shortcut in the side
menu.
.In the path field type "shutdown -s -t " and click Next.
.Enter a name for the shortcut (for example, "Shutdown 1 Hour") and click
Finish.

Any time you double-click the shutdown shortcut, the timer will start. To
cancel the timer, you can create a second shortcut using shutdown -a or
enter the shutdown -a command in Command Prompt.

To change the time on the shutdown timer, right-click the shortcut icon,
select Properties and change the seconds value in the Target field. From
within Properties, you can also assign a different image as the icon.

Dedicated programs


sleep-timer-pc.png

Taylor Martin/CNET 


Original aarticle at:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/put-a-shutdown-timer-on-your-windows-desktop-wit
h-this-command/

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How to use iCloud Drive's new sharing features - CNET

[M. Taylor]

CNET How To - Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 12:46 AM
How to use iCloud Drive's new sharing features - CNET
With MacOS High Sierra and iOS 11, iCloud Drive is finally catching up with
Dropbox and Google Drive in terms of sharing ability. You will need to
convince your collaborators to start using iCloud Drive, however, if you
want to share files on Apple's cloud service, a dubious proposition given
the head start that both Dropbox and Google Drive enjoy. 
Still, if you've got friends and family all using Macs and iPhones, there's
lots to like about the new and improved iCloud Drive. Plus, you can now
share an iCloud account with your family for more than just app and iTunes
purchases.
What's the new iCloud Drive sharing feature?
With MacOS High Sierra, you'll see a new sharing option called Add People
that lets you send a link to your file instead of attaching it to an email
or text message. This way, your file stays put and allows for real-time
collaboration instead of emailing or texting versions back and forth.
How does it work?
On a Mac, open Finder, choose iCloud Drive or a folder you are syncing to
iCloud such as Desktop or Documents, select a file and click the share
button at the top of the window. Or just right-click a file and then click
Share. Either way, you will see the new Add People option in the share menu.
The Add People menu provides the usual sharing suspects -- Mail, Messages,
Twitter, Facebook, AirDrop -- but when you select one, it will send a link
to your file instead of an attachment. 
There's also a Copy Link button on the Add People menu. It lets you copy the
link to a file to your clipboard to paste at your leisure.
 Screenshot by Matt Elliott/CNET 
Does it work with folders, too?
Sadly, no. You can only share files. Actually, that should read file and not
files; you can share only one file at a time with the new Add People sharing
function.
What about permissions?
Yep, got 'em. For files you share, you can set permissions on who can access
the file (only those you invite or anyone that it might get forwarded to)
and what they can do with it (make changes or view only).
Can I unshare a file?
But of course! You can see which files have been shared because it'll say in
gray letters under or next to the file name (depending on your view) Shared
by Me or the name of the person who shared the file with you. To revoke
access to a shared file, select it, open the share menu and you'll see that
the Add People menu item now says Show People. Choose a person from the
list, click the triple-dot button on the right and then select Remove
Access. You can also change a file's permissions here, too.
Does this new sharing work on iOS devices, too?
It sure does. You'll see the same Add People option when you go to share a
file from the new Files app in iOS 11.
 Screenshot by Matt Elliott/CNET 
What's this about sharing an iCloud plan with my family?
iCloud Family Sharing was introduced with iOS 8, but it let you share only
purchases from the App Store, iTunes and iBooks along with syncing calendars
and reminders. Now, iCloud Drive gets in on the Family Sharing action and
lets you share cloud space for files, photos, backups and more.
You can spring for a single iCloud storage plan to be shared with up to six
family members instead of paying for individual plans. Only the two largest
iCloud plans are shareable, the 200GB plan for $2.99 (£2.49 or AU$4.49) a
month or the 2TB plan for $9.99 (£6.99 or AU$14.99) a month. To set up
family sharing on a Mac, go to System Preferences > iCloud and click the Set
Up Family button. On an iOS device, open Settings, tap your Apple ID profile
at the top and then tap Set Up Family Sharing.

Original Article at:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-icloud-drives-new-sharing-features/#f
tag=CAD5457c2c



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