RE: Watch OS or voiceover bug

[rami]

I am also facing a strange problem with calls on my apple watch series 2 watch 
os 3.2. when I end the call I completely lose every sound on my watch. The 
device goes completely silent and does not go back to normal until I hard reset 
it by pressing the digital crown and the side button for few seconds together.
I am not sure if this is related to voiceover being activated, or an operating 
system bug, though I believe it is related to voiceover.
Thanks


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 6:43 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: Re: Watch OS or voiceover bug

I’m not sure where the bug is coming from but I can confirm it’s a known bug.  
I’ve reported it to accessibility at apple as have many others.  The reading on 
the watch face is correct in my experience.  The one in the control center 
either sticks at 79 or reads incorrectly.

> On Apr 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Nickus de Vos  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> I've had my Apple Watch less than a week now so not very experienced.
> When I first got it, I updated the OS to 3.2, so I don't know if this 
> behavior was also in the previous version. I use a watch face with 
> complication for battery life.
> 
> Thing is, The complication on the watch face, and the battery status in the 
> control centre, is often spoken as two different values by voiceover. The one 
> will for example report The battery life to be at 79%, while the other report 
> it as 85%.
> Anyone know whether this is a Voice over bug or a WatchOS 3.2 bug?
> 
> Nickus
> 
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Apple music wont login on android.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
verification-code i get from apple.
No go.
I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account but 
not apple music on android.
So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then login 
and after that activate it again?
Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can do.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks in advance.
/A

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Re: how to remove system dialogs

[Stan ZA]

Hi Chris,
Did you try "command w"?
That normally works for me.
Cheers
Stan ZA
amista...@gmail.com
Mobile;+27824952094.
Home;+27145945119.

> On 05 Apr 2017, at 01:31, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I have a couple system dialogs which I want to remove.  They say “unknown”, 
> and there are no close buttons.  I thought that a reboot would help, but no.
> Are system dialogs part of the Mac, or are they unique to voiceOver?
> 
> Thanks
> Chris
> 
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RE: Bootcamp or buy a PC?

[Simon Fogarty]

Not on 

-Original Message-the widnows side,ootcamp windows 10 on my mac book 
air 2013 aneah na, not a good thing,

 I haven't yet tried it on my sierra installation of the same machine.
d y

I tried it with my b
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Eric Brinkman
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 4:01 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Bootcamp or buy a PC?

Will my AirPods work if I'm running windows via BootCamp? I like being able to 
use them while running my virtual machine.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 3:38 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As a user of bootcamp I would say go with that,
> 
> If you've got a 750gig hard drive then you've got a heap of space and 
> it's on only the windows installation you will have trouble with,
> 
> If anything use windows 10 I find it more stable and quicker than 
> windows 7,
> 
> You would then need Jaws 17 or 18 to work with it, The bootcamp setup 
> is very easy with vo and all you need is a dvd or ISO of windows to install 
> from.
> 
> Good luck and hope this helps,
> 
> Surely someone around work could give you a hand for 30 minutes.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Brinkman
> Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2017 10:59 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Bootcamp or buy a PC?
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I have a MacBook Pro with a 750 gig solid state drive, 16 gigs of ram, a 2.7 
> GHZ Intel Core I7, and an Intel HD 4000 graphics card.  I have been using it 
> since late 2012 with Windows 7 as a virtual machine, but am becoming 
> increasingly unhappy with the performance.  VoiceOver has numerous bugs, even 
> with Apple native applications like iTunes.  Some websites are extremely 
> sluggish in Safari with VO.  I still can't use Spotify with VO although I can 
> use it with Jaws.  The virtual machine has its own set of problems.  I am 
> unable to open certain powerpoint presentations, for instance.  I sometimes 
> get errors when trying to install applications.  Since I use Windows at work, 
> I am thinking about purchasing a Windows laptop.  However my MBP is still a 
> powerful machine from a specs standpoint, so I hate to abandon it.  Should I 
> consider trying Bootcamp?  My main problem with that is that I cannot set it 
> up without sighted assistance, and I live alone.  Should I upgrade from 
> Windows 7 to Windows 10?  Should I try NVDA instead of Jaws?  Any suggestions 
> from people who have used Bootcamp or NVDA would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Eric
> 
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RE: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[Simon Fogarty]

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

 Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not together,

 On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
 Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on a mac,

 Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to bring up the 
menus,

 
Give that a try,
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you to get in 
to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I open a app I can't 
get to the minues is there something that I need to change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only works when 
using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

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RE: Apple confirms new iMacs in late 2017 and Mac Pro in the future.

[Simon Fogarty]

That's a bit greedy Tim,
 But hey lets face it, that's the way the industry works.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 10:52 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple confirms new iMacs in late 2017 and Mac Pro in the future.

And I just bought 20 iMacs.  Oh well, didn't feel like waiting anyway.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 4, 2017, at 16:03, Scott Granados  wrote:

Interesting article that confirms the iMac will be updated late in 2017 with 
“pro features”.  Apple is hinting at iMacs with high end pro features.  I can’t 
wait, this sounds like multiprocessor and high end memory configurations.

Read more here
http://www.redmondpie.com/2017-imac-with-pro-features-coming-late-in-the-year-confirms-apple/


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RE: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[Simon Fogarty]

Just wondering here if the setup for the windows keyboard wasn't correctly 
setup and therefore the OS hasn't correctly setup the correct keyboard type.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Jonathan C. Cohn
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 12:21 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

What is the exact key sequence you are attempting? Also, is everything US 
English (software and keyboards)?

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn 

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 2:36 PM, The wolf  wrote:
> 
> Hello I am aware of the 2 keys being switched
> 
> how ever it still isn't bringing up the minue when I try to do the 
> command this is really really strange because when I had my mac mini about a 
> year and a half ago I nefver ran in to this problem before and I was using a 
> windows keyboard at the time when I had my mac.
> my friend is running the latest osx on a macbook air.
> is there anything else that I can try?
> thanks
> Hank
> 
>> On 4/4/2017 11:27 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It sounds to me that the keys are just mapped differently.  Yes, it is 
>> totally possible to use a non-Apple keyboard.  The usual difference is that 
>> the ctrl-and option keys are not together on the Windows keyboard.  That is, 
>> on the Windows keyboard, the cmd and Option keys are switched around, Option 
>> is the Alt key and cmd is the Windows key.  So, on the Windows keyboard, 
>> when you press the ctrl key and the key just to the right of it, the normal 
>> thing you'd do on your Mac, it's a different key combination than you 
>> expect.  To the Mac, you're pressing the ctrl and the cmd key.  Thus VO 
>> commands aren't recognized.  You can either map the keys differently in the 
>> Keyboard pane of System Prefs, or just get used to pressing the ctrl and Alt 
>> keys to use VO commands.
>> 
>> Hope this makes sense.
>> 
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:57, The wolf  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello
>> I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
>> she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you 
>> to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when 
>> I open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to 
>> change?
>> we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only works 
>> when using the macbook keyboard.
>> surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
>> if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
>> thanks
>> Hank
>> 
> 
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RE: Watch OS or voiceover bug

[Simon Fogarty]

IOS 10.3.1 was released sometime in the passed day.

 That is for the phone I haven't yet tried for my watch or iPad.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 3:43 PM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: Re: Watch OS or voiceover bug

I’m not sure where the bug is coming from but I can confirm it’s a known bug.  
I’ve reported it to accessibility at apple as have many others.  The reading on 
the watch face is correct in my experience.  The one in the control center 
either sticks at 79 or reads incorrectly.

> On Apr 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Nickus de Vos  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> I've had my Apple Watch less than a week now so not very experienced.
> When I first got it, I updated the OS to 3.2, so I don't know if this 
> behavior was also in the previous version. I use a watch face with 
> complication for battery life.
> 
> Thing is, The complication on the watch face, and the battery status in the 
> control centre, is often spoken as two different values by voiceover. The one 
> will for example report The battery life to be at 79%, while the other report 
> it as 85%.
> Anyone know whether this is a Voice over bug or a WatchOS 3.2 bug?
> 
> Nickus
> 
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Re: Watch OS or voiceover bug

[Nickus de Vos]

Hi
I don't experience this bug after ending a phone call. I have a 42mm
series 2 Nike Plus adition which is on OS3.2

On 4/5/17, rami  wrote:
> I am also facing a strange problem with calls on my apple watch series 2
> watch os 3.2. when I end the call I completely lose every sound on my watch.
> The device goes completely silent and does not go back to normal until I
> hard reset it by pressing the digital crown and the side button for few
> seconds together.
> I am not sure if this is related to voiceover being activated, or an
> operating system bug, though I believe it is related to voiceover.
> Thanks
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 6:43 AM
> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
> Subject: Re: Watch OS or voiceover bug
>
> I’m not sure where the bug is coming from but I can confirm it’s a known
> bug.  I’ve reported it to accessibility at apple as have many others.  The
> reading on the watch face is correct in my experience.  The one in the
> control center either sticks at 79 or reads incorrectly.
>
>> On Apr 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Nickus de Vos  wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> I've had my Apple Watch less than a week now so not very experienced.
>> When I first got it, I updated the OS to 3.2, so I don't know if this
>> behavior was also in the previous version. I use a watch face with
>> complication for battery life.
>>
>> Thing is, The complication on the watch face, and the battery status in
>> the control centre, is often spoken as two different values by voiceover.
>> The one will for example report The battery life to be at 79%, while the
>> other report it as 85%.
>> Anyone know whether this is a Voice over bug or a WatchOS 3.2 bug?
>>
>> Nickus
>>
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Re: free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Scott,

Just curious, does the Airport Extreme have VPN as an option?
Cheers,
Donna

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 10:21 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Ah Simon, it’s like this, I’ve never seen Unix kill anyone, I have seen 
> Windows though.  This was a long time ago but when I was on a support call 
> where someone died as a result of a windows crash I never put any faith in it 
> again.  That combined with the DOD (department of defense). Complete lack of 
> security certification.  I know things have improved but in my opinion, 
> Microsoft is a consumer operating system at best and has no place in the real 
> operations world.  Thankfully, most large providers and enterprises agree 
> with me.
> 
> That being said, I’m absolutely certain there is a port of open VPN for 
> windows.  Clients are no problem and plentiful and servers are available at 
> openvpn.org  if memory serves.
> 
> Also remember Netgear routers among others include Open VPN as a feature you 
> can simply enable.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>> 
>> Scott, 
>> 
>> What drugs you taking dude?
>> 
>> Linux ain't my bucket of chicken,
>> 
>> Windows is a differnet kettle of fish,
>> I can find my way around linux / unix but still not what I call fun.
>> 
>> Is there a windows version of Open VPN ?
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2017 2:15 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?
>> 
>> Hi Simon, for a highly skilled unix administrator like your self, you could 
>> do it in your sleep. As a newly and someone who wants to break in to unix 
>> administration like some on the list may be, a very easy but worth while 
>> project.
>> 
>> I could write something up for instructions but basically.  You use yum or 
>> apt-get install open vpn and the rsa kit for generating certs, you issue a 
>> certificate authority, use that to issue certs for your machine, write a 
>> small configuration file for the server and one per client and then just 
>> push the config and certs / keys to each client and load them in to the 
>> client software.  Most of this is automatic.  Very simple and very powerful. 
>>  You can use 4096 bit keys or stronger and sha512 hashes.  That will even 
>> give Uncle Sam and the tappers a run for their money.
>> 
>> I think you could do this on a raspberry pie 3 no problem the only issue is 
>> you only have 1 ethernet so you’ll need to use the WiFi as an access point 
>> and or join the network with the WiFi and use the ethernet as the inside.  
>> You could also install an ethernet USB dongle to add another wired port.
>> 
>> Also remember, nether routers include open vpn in their higher end gear 
>> already set up.
>> 
>>> On Apr 3, 2017, at 4:23 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> 
>>> How complicated is open VPN to setup?
>>> 
>>> And yeah could it be setup on a raspberry pi 3?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
>>> Sent: Monday, 3 April 2017 4:56 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Does a server means that you can have a raspberry pi to act as a vpn server 
>>> to?
>>> This could be something to dig into.
>>> /A
 2 apr. 2017 kl. 18:23 skrev Scott Granados >>> >:
 
 My suggestion is to use Open VPN on a server. While you have the ongoing 
 server cost as little as $5 per month, you do have a lot more flexibility. 
  You can attach your phone, tablets, or Mac with totally free clients 
 (windows as well) that are totally accessible.  Y ou also have the 
 advantage of not necessarily being in a VPN database so you’re not blocked 
 from Netflix for example.
 
 
 
> On Apr 1, 2017, at 11:30 PM, Cameron Strife  > wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody. I'm looking for a vpn that is reliable and works with 
> voiceover on OSX, iOS, and any screen reader on windows, although 
> that last point is no big deal either way. Free or a one time 
> license fee would be preferred.
> 
> I've found that express vpn works very well with voiceover but I 
> don't want to pay fourteen dollars a month forever to use it.
> 
> I bought a lifetime subscription to shymo vpn and while the 

Voiceover bug in latest OS X numbers update

[Phil Halton]

In the latest OS X numbers update there appears to be a vo bug in the formula 
editor. After entering a formula cell, it used to be the case that you could 
hear the entire formula spoken by pressing up or down arrow in order to get a 
general overview of the formula. This is no longer the case and vo gets stuck 
repeating the first function of the formula and gives other garbled pieces of 
the formula. Arrowing left or right will fstill read the formula token by 
token, but you cannot hear the entire formula spoken at once with up or down 
arrows.
Secondly, voiceover no longer speaks each character as you type in a function 
name, But will only speak when you have completed a formula function with a 
left or right parenthesis. Neither will it speak data range names until you 
have completed the name. In effect, then, you have to type in virtually an 
entire formula without speech and then go back and read it token by token to 
see if it was typed correctly.
This applies to formulas in token mode. I have not checked How it affects the 
formula editor in text mode where function names and data ranges are not 
tokenized. Has anyone else  who uses numbers noticed this glitchy formula bar 
behavior?


Sent from my IPhone

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Re: Apple confirms new iMacs in late 2017 and Mac Pro in the future.

[Barry Hadder]

I for one am very happy and relieved to see more focus coming back to the 
Macintosh and the pro market.
Hear is an article with more detail about the Mac Pro.
http://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives 


On Apr 4, 2017, at 17:03, Scott Granados  wrote:

Interesting article that confirms the iMac will be updated late in 2017 with 
“pro features”.  Apple is hinting at iMacs with high end pro features.  I can’t 
wait, this sounds like multiprocessor and high end memory configurations.

Read more here
http://www.redmondpie.com/2017-imac-with-pro-features-coming-late-in-the-year-confirms-apple/


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Barry Hadder
bhad...@gmail.com



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Re: Apple music wont login on android.

[Mary Otten]

I just had the same experience yesterday. I finally got around to trying Apple 
Music on my android devices again, since installing two factor verification 
with iOS 10. No go.  I'm going to give up on it I think.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
> Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
> verification-code i get from apple.
> No go.
> I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account but 
> not apple music on android.
> So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then 
> login and after that activate it again?
> Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can do.
> Any thoughts on this?
> Thanks in advance.
> /A
> 
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Re: Apple music wont login on android.

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I don't have an Android device to confirm this, but, have you generated an 
access code as in this post?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7556162?start=0&tstart=0 


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 09:01, Mary Otten  wrote:

I just had the same experience yesterday. I finally got around to trying Apple 
Music on my android devices again, since installing two factor verification 
with iOS 10. No go.  I'm going to give up on it I think.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
> Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
> verification-code i get from apple.
> No go.
> I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account but 
> not apple music on android.
> So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then 
> login and after that activate it again?
> Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can do.
> Any thoughts on this?
> Thanks in advance.
> /A
> 
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Re: Apple confirms new iMacs in late 2017 and Mac Pro in the future.

[Jonathan Cohn]

Thanks, I mss reading Daring Fireball.

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM Barry Hadder  wrote:

> I for one am very happy and relieved to see more focus coming back to the
> Macintosh and the pro market.
> Hear is an article with more detail about the Mac Pro.
> http://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives
>
> On Apr 4, 2017, at 17:03, Scott Granados  wrote:
>
> Interesting article that confirms the iMac will be updated late in 2017
> with “pro features”.  Apple is hinting at iMacs with high end pro
> features.  I can’t wait, this sounds like multiprocessor and high end
> memory configurations.
>
> Read more here
>
> http://www.redmondpie.com/2017-imac-with-pro-features-coming-late-in-the-year-confirms-apple/
>
>
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> bhad...@gmail.com
>
>
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Re: Apple music wont login on android.

[Mary Otten]

Hi Tim,
That is exactly what I did. I tried it on two different devices. No joy.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 8:20 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I don't have an Android device to confirm this, but, have you generated an 
> access code as in this post?
> 
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7556162?start=0&tstart=0
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 5, 2017, at 09:01, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I just had the same experience yesterday. I finally got around to trying 
> Apple Music on my android devices again, since installing two factor 
> verification with iOS 10. No go.  I'm going to give up on it I think.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
>> Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
>> verification-code i get from apple.
>> No go.
>> I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account 
>> but not apple music on android.
>> So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then 
>> login and after that activate it again?
>> Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can do.
>> Any thoughts on this?
>> Thanks in advance.
>> /A
>> 
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Re: Apple music wont login on android.

[Tim Kilburn]

Darn.  Frustrating I'm sure.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 10:09, Mary Otten  wrote:

Hi Tim,
That is exactly what I did. I tried it on two different devices. No joy.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2017, at 8:20 AM, Tim Kilburn mailto:kilbu...@me.com>> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't have an Android device to confirm this, but, have you generated an 
> access code as in this post?
> 
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7556162?start=0&tstart=0 
> 
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 5, 2017, at 09:01, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
> I just had the same experience yesterday. I finally got around to trying 
> Apple Music on my android devices again, since installing two factor 
> verification with iOS 10. No go.  I'm going to give up on it I think.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Anders Holmberg > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
>> Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
>> verification-code i get from apple.
>> No go.
>> I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account 
>> but not apple music on android.
>> So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then 
>> login and after that activate it again?
>> Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can do.
>> Any thoughts on this?
>> Thanks in advance.
>> /A
>> 
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Re: Apple music wont login on android.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Yes i think i have to do the same.
It just wont work even though the support pages say it will.
And i have done exactly as i should do.
Maybe i should give up on apple music and use spotify on both my ipad and my 
moto g 5.
At least i know this works.
/A
> 5 apr. 2017 kl. 17:01 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> I just had the same experience yesterday. I finally got around to trying 
> Apple Music on my android devices again, since installing two factor 
> verification with iOS 10. No go.  I'm going to give up on it I think.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
>> Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
>> verification-code i get from apple.
>> No go.
>> I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account 
>> but not apple music on android.
>> So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then 
>> login and after that activate it again?
>> Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can do.
>> Any thoughts on this?
>> Thanks in advance.
>> /A
>> 
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Re: Apple music wont login on android.

[Mary Otten]

Interesting. I got rid of Spotify a long time ago due to excess ability. I 
guess it is better now. But I have so much stuff in my Apple Music library 
ripped from CDs into iTunes, that really, Apple Music is the best fit for me. 
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Yes i think i have to do the same.
> It just wont work even though the support pages say it will.
> And i have done exactly as i should do.
> Maybe i should give up on apple music and use spotify on both my ipad and my 
> moto g 5.
> At least i know this works.
> /A
>> 5 apr. 2017 kl. 17:01 skrev Mary Otten :
>> 
>> I just had the same experience yesterday. I finally got around to trying 
>> Apple Music on my android devices again, since installing two factor 
>> verification with iOS 10. No go.  I'm going to give up on it I think.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Ok, this is really a pain in the back!
>>> Now i have tried to login with my aple ID and password followed by the 
>>> verification-code i get from apple.
>>> No go.
>>> I can login on safari and firefox on my linux desktop to my apple account 
>>> but not apple music on android.
>>> So my question is what if i deactivate the two-step verification and then 
>>> login and after that activate it again?
>>> Maybe i should contact apple first to see if there is anything else i can 
>>> do.
>>> Any thoughts on this?
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[The wolf]

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore 
her.

thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to bring up 
the menus,

  
Give that a try,

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you to get in 
to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I open a app I can't 
get to the minues is there something that I need to change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only works when 
using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

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Re: free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?

[Scott Granados]

Hi Donna, no I don’t believe it does.

Thanks
Scott

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> Just curious, does the Airport Extreme have VPN as an option?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 10:21 PM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Ah Simon, it’s like this, I’ve never seen Unix kill anyone, I have seen 
>> Windows though.  This was a long time ago but when I was on a support call 
>> where someone died as a result of a windows crash I never put any faith in 
>> it again.  That combined with the DOD (department of defense). Complete lack 
>> of security certification.  I know things have improved but in my opinion, 
>> Microsoft is a consumer operating system at best and has no place in the 
>> real operations world.  Thankfully, most large providers and enterprises 
>> agree with me.
>> 
>> That being said, I’m absolutely certain there is a port of open VPN for 
>> windows.  Clients are no problem and plentiful and servers are available at 
>> openvpn.org  if memory serves.
>> 
>> Also remember Netgear routers among others include Open VPN as a feature you 
>> can simply enable.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 3:14 AM, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> 
>>> What drugs you taking dude?
>>> 
>>> Linux ain't my bucket of chicken,
>>> 
>>> Windows is a differnet kettle of fish,
>>> I can find my way around linux / unix but still not what I call fun.
>>> 
>>> Is there a windows version of Open VPN ?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>>  
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 4 April 2017 2:15 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: Re: free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?
>>> 
>>> Hi Simon, for a highly skilled unix administrator like your self, you could 
>>> do it in your sleep. As a newly and someone who wants to break in to unix 
>>> administration like some on the list may be, a very easy but worth while 
>>> project.
>>> 
>>> I could write something up for instructions but basically.  You use yum or 
>>> apt-get install open vpn and the rsa kit for generating certs, you issue a 
>>> certificate authority, use that to issue certs for your machine, write a 
>>> small configuration file for the server and one per client and then just 
>>> push the config and certs / keys to each client and load them in to the 
>>> client software.  Most of this is automatic.  Very simple and very 
>>> powerful.  You can use 4096 bit keys or stronger and sha512 hashes.  That 
>>> will even give Uncle Sam and the tappers a run for their money.
>>> 
>>> I think you could do this on a raspberry pie 3 no problem the only issue is 
>>> you only have 1 ethernet so you’ll need to use the WiFi as an access point 
>>> and or join the network with the WiFi and use the ethernet as the inside.  
>>> You could also install an ethernet USB dongle to add another wired port.
>>> 
>>> Also remember, nether routers include open vpn in their higher end gear 
>>> already set up.
>>> 
 On Apr 3, 2017, at 4:23 AM, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi Scott,
 
 How complicated is open VPN to setup?
 
 And yeah could it be setup on a raspberry pi 3?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Anders Holmberg
 Sent: Monday, 3 April 2017 4:56 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?
 
 Hi!
 Does a server means that you can have a raspberry pi to act as a vpn 
 server to?
 This could be something to dig into.
 /A
> 2 apr. 2017 kl. 18:23 skrev Scott Granados  >:
> 
> My suggestion is to use Open VPN on a server. While you have the ongoing 
> server cost as little as $5 per month, you do have a lot more 
> flexibility.  You can attach your phone, tablets, or Mac with totally 
> free clients (windows as well) that are totally accessible.  Y ou also 
> have the advantage of not necessarily being in a VPN database so you’re 
> not blocked from Netflix for example.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 1, 2017, at 11:30 PM, Cameron Strife > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everybody. I'm looking for a vpn that is reliable and works with
>> voiceover on OSX, iOS, and any screen reader on windows, although
>> that last point is no big deal either way. Free or a one 

Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[The wolf]

can you tell me what the settings need to be set to in the keyboard area 
of the prefferences? or is this set up found in another part of osx?


thanks

Hank



On 4/5/2017 2:12 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Just wondering here if the setup for the windows keyboard wasn't correctly 
setup and therefore the OS hasn't correctly setup the correct keyboard type.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Jonathan C. Cohn
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 12:21 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

What is the exact key sequence you are attempting? Also, is everything US 
English (software and keyboards)?

Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn


On Apr 4, 2017, at 2:36 PM, The wolf  wrote:

Hello I am aware of the 2 keys being switched

how ever it still isn't bringing up the minue when I try to do the
command this is really really strange because when I had my mac mini about a 
year and a half ago I nefver ran in to this problem before and I was using a 
windows keyboard at the time when I had my mac.
my friend is running the latest osx on a macbook air.
is there anything else that I can try?
thanks
Hank


On 4/4/2017 11:27 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
Hi,

It sounds to me that the keys are just mapped differently.  Yes, it is totally 
possible to use a non-Apple keyboard.  The usual difference is that the 
ctrl-and option keys are not together on the Windows keyboard.  That is, on the 
Windows keyboard, the cmd and Option keys are switched around, Option is the 
Alt key and cmd is the Windows key.  So, on the Windows keyboard, when you 
press the ctrl key and the key just to the right of it, the normal thing you'd 
do on your Mac, it's a different key combination than you expect.  To the Mac, 
you're pressing the ctrl and the cmd key.  Thus VO commands aren't recognized.  
You can either map the keys differently in the Keyboard pane of System Prefs, 
or just get used to pressing the ctrl and Alt keys to use VO commands.

Hope this makes sense.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:57, The wolf  wrote:

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when
I open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only works when 
using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank


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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[E.T.]

   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she 
can do to verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce 
any valid key or key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
her.
thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
bring up the menus,

  Give that a try,
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
works when using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to the 
Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be mixed up 
to begin with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:

  I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do to 
verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key or 
key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:
> yes I am sure that she is using the right keys
> 
> I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
> her.
> thanks
> Hank
> 
> On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>> Are you sure she is using the correct keys?
>> 
>>  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
>> together,
>> 
>>  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
>>  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
>> a mac,
>> 
>>  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
>> bring up the menus,
>> 
>>  Give that a try,
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?
>> 
>> Hello
>> I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
>> she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
>> to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
>> open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
>> change?
>> we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
>> works when using the macbook keyboard.
>> surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
>> if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
>> thanks
>> Hank
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 

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Emptying El Capitan's clipboard

[Angus MacKinnon]

I see if you go to OS 10.11.6’s Finder and Edit in the menu, a person can 
Dissplay the clipboard. However, how does a person clear the Clipboard? A 
person should not have to shutdown and boot everytime just to clear the 
clipboard. Thank you.

Angus MacKinnon

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Re: Watch OS or voiceover bug

[ernest mccullough]

Has anyone noticed that when updating from watch oS2 to oS3, the alarm
sound is considerably lower? Has this issue been resolved in the very
latest update?

On 4/5/17, Nickus de Vos  wrote:
> Hi
> I don't experience this bug after ending a phone call. I have a 42mm
> series 2 Nike Plus adition which is on OS3.2
>
> On 4/5/17, rami  wrote:
>> I am also facing a strange problem with calls on my apple watch series 2
>> watch os 3.2. when I end the call I completely lose every sound on my
>> watch.
>> The device goes completely silent and does not go back to normal until I
>> hard reset it by pressing the digital crown and the side button for few
>> seconds together.
>> I am not sure if this is related to voiceover being activated, or an
>> operating system bug, though I believe it is related to voiceover.
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 6:43 AM
>> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
>> Subject: Re: Watch OS or voiceover bug
>>
>> I’m not sure where the bug is coming from but I can confirm it’s a known
>> bug.  I’ve reported it to accessibility at apple as have many others.
>> The
>> reading on the watch face is correct in my experience.  The one in the
>> control center either sticks at 79 or reads incorrectly.
>>
>>> On Apr 2, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Nickus de Vos  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> I've had my Apple Watch less than a week now so not very experienced.
>>> When I first got it, I updated the OS to 3.2, so I don't know if this
>>> behavior was also in the previous version. I use a watch face with
>>> complication for battery life.
>>>
>>> Thing is, The complication on the watch face, and the battery status in
>>> the control centre, is often spoken as two different values by
>>> voiceover.
>>> The one will for example report The battery life to be at 79%, while the
>>> other report it as 85%.
>>> Anyone know whether this is a Voice over bug or a WatchOS 3.2 bug?
>>>
>>> Nickus
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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>> You received this 

Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[The wolf]

Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue

I tried everything.

what else should I check?

clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.

thanks

Hank


On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to the 
Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be mixed up 
to begin with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:

   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do to 
verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key or 
key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
her.
thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
bring up the menus,

  Give that a try,
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
works when using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:

Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue

I tried everything.

what else should I check?

clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.

thanks

Hank


On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to the 
> Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be mixed 
> up to begin with.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do to 
> verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key or 
> key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:
>> yes I am sure that she is using the right keys
>> 
>> I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
>> her.
>> thanks
>> Hank
>> 
>> On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>>> Are you sure she is using the correct keys?
>>> 
>>>  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
>>> together,
>>> 
>>>  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
>>>  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
>>> a mac,
>>> 
>>>  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
>>> bring up the menus,
>>> 
>>>  Give that a try,
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?
>>> 
>>> Hello
>>> I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
>>> she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
>>> to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
>>> open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
>>> change?
>>> we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
>>> works when using the macbook keyboard.
>>> surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
>>> if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
>>> thanks
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
>>> mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Emptying El Capitan's clipboard

[David Griffith]

Apologies if this answer has already appeared but the old workaround for all 
platforms was to highlight a space in any text and simply copy that to the 
clipboard.
I will have a check on my version of Sierra to  check that this  still works.
David Griffith

> On 5 Apr 2017, at 19:09, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
> 
> I see if you go to OS 10.11.6’s Finder and Edit in the menu, a person can 
> Dissplay the clipboard. However, how does a person clear the Clipboard? A 
> person should not have to shutdown and boot everytime just to clear the 
> clipboard. Thank you.
> 
> Angus MacKinnon
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> 
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[The wolf]

as I said when she uses the apple keyboard that is built in to her 
macbook it works fine and she doesn't have any issues what so ever it is 
when she tries to use the windows keyboard

that she is running in to this issue.
so am I under standing correctly that this is going to be a issue with 
windows keyboard and a mac?

if so then this is totally stupid
and there should be a way to fix this.
On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:

Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue

I tried everything.

what else should I check?

clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.

thanks

Hank


On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to the 
Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be mixed up 
to begin with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:

   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do to 
verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key or 
key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
her.
thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
bring up the menus,

  Give that a try,
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
works when using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

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Re: Emptying El Capitan's clipboard

[David Griffith]

I have just tested the old workaround of simply copying a space to the 
clipboard and this works for clearing the clipboard of any readable text 
although obviously it is not technically icily cleared.

David Griffith.


> On 5 Apr 2017, at 19:09, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:
> 
> I see if you go to OS 10.11.6’s Finder and Edit in the menu, a person can 
> Dissplay the clipboard. However, how does a person clear the Clipboard? A 
> person should not have to shutdown and boot everytime just to clear the 
> clipboard. Thank you.
> 
> Angus MacKinnon
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[The wolf]

also vo k is working perfictly when I use her keyboard on her macbook 
air its the windows keyboard that we can't get to access the voice over 
features

On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:

Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue

I tried everything.

what else should I check?

clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.

thanks

Hank


On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to the 
Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be mixed up 
to begin with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:

   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do to 
verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key or 
key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
her.
thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
bring up the menus,

  Give that a try,
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
works when using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

--
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or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
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Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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RE: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[daj.griffith]

I know others have had different experiences but I have never  personally been 
able to make any of my various Windows Keyboards work properly on my iMac and I 
often got non responsive key presses and strange unpredictable output.
Specifically I could never get the Microsoft Natural to work properly though 
this may have been due to inaccessible driver setup which was supposed to make 
the keyboard Mac compliant.
Certainly the advice for many keyboard options is that you need to use special 
Mac drivers to make them work properly.

Apple keyboards or Apple clone keyboards like the Tactile pro one I use work 
perfectly fine so I have decided for an easier life to stick to them.

David Griffith
From: The wolf
Sent: 05 April 2017 22:36
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

also vo k is working perfictly when I use her keyboard on her macbook 
air its the windows keyboard that we can't get to access the voice over 
features
On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
> should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
> pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
> perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:
>
> Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue
>
> I tried everything.
>
> what else should I check?
>
> clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.
>
> thanks
>
> Hank
>
>
> On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to 
>> the Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be 
>> mixed up to begin with.
>>
>> Later...
>>
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:
>>
>>I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do 
>> to verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key 
>> or key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.
>>
>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>
>> On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:
>>> yes I am sure that she is using the right keys
>>>
>>> I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
>>> her.
>>> thanks
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
 Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

   Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
 together,

   On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
   Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
 a mac,

   Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
 bring up the menus,

   Give that a try,
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
 Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

 Hello
 I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
 she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
 to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
 open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
 change?
 we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
 works when using the macbook keyboard.
 surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
 if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
 thanks
 Hank

 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac
 Visionaries list.

 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
 mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
 Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

 The archives for this list can be searched at:
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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

So, when you connect the Windows keyboard to the laptop, then press VO-k on the 
laptop, it should invoke Keyboard Practice and announce whatever key is pressed 
on either keyboard.  Therefore, you should be able to press keys on the Windows 
keyboard, and they should be announced as well as any keys you might press on 
the laptop.  Regarding whether a Windows keyboard works on a Mac or not, that 
is not the case.  When you plug in any USB keyboard into the Mac other than an 
Apple one, a dialog should appear asking you to press the key just to the right 
of the left shift key, then the key just to the left of the right shift key.  
This is so that the Mac can identify the keyboard and map it accordingly.  If 
this didn't happen, someone may have attempted to skip this step at some point. 
 You should be able to go into System Prefs, under the Keyboard pane and make 
this happen again so that the keyboard is properly identified.  Other than 
that, my instructions at the beginning of this note should help to, at least, 
determine what keys are what on that keyboard.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 15:36, The wolf  wrote:

also vo k is working perfictly when I use her keyboard on her macbook air its 
the windows keyboard that we can't get to access the voice over features
On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
> should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
> pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
> perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:
> 
> Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue
> 
> I tried everything.
> 
> what else should I check?
> 
> clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Hank
> 
> 
> On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to 
>> the Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be 
>> mixed up to begin with.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do 
>> to verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key 
>> or key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:
>>> yes I am sure that she is using the right keys
>>> 
>>> I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
>>> her.
>>> thanks
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
 Are you sure she is using the correct keys?
 
  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
 together,
 
  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
 a mac,
 
  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
 bring up the menus,
 
  Give that a try,
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
 Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?
 
 Hello
 I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
 she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
 to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
 open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
 change?
 we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
 works when using the macbook keyboard.
 surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
 if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
 thanks
 Hank
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
 mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
 Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 

Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

We have, probably, 40 or 50 non-Apple keyboards in our facilities and they work 
fine.  There are specific limitations such as distinguishing between left and 
right option keys etc that are not recognizable on third party keyboards, but 
regular keyboard functionality and VO modifier keys should work fine.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 16:06, daj.griff...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 
I know others have had different experiences but I have never  personally been 
able to make any of my various Windows Keyboards work properly on my iMac and I 
often got non responsive key presses and strange unpredictable output.
Specifically I could never get the Microsoft Natural to work properly though 
this may have been due to inaccessible driver setup which was supposed to make 
the keyboard Mac compliant.
Certainly the advice for many keyboard options is that you need to use special 
Mac drivers to make them work properly.
 
Apple keyboards or Apple clone keyboards like the Tactile pro one I use work 
perfectly fine so I have decided for an easier life to stick to them.
 
David Griffith
From: The wolf 
Sent: 05 April 2017 22:36
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?
 
also vo k is working perfictly when I use her keyboard on her macbook
air its the windows keyboard that we can't get to access the voice over
features
On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
> should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
> pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
> perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:
> 
> Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue
> 
> I tried everything.
> 
> what else should I check?
> 
> clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Hank
> 
> 
> On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to 
>> the Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be 
>> mixed up to begin with.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do 
>> to verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key 
>> or key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.
>> 
>>  From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>   "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>   mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>   our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>   and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:
>>> yes I am sure that she is using the right keys
>>> 
>>> I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
>>> her.
>>> thanks
>>> Hank
>>> 
>>> On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
 Are you sure she is using the correct keys?
 
   Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
 together,
 
   On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
   Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
 a mac,
 
   Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
 bring up the menus,
 
   Give that a try,
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
 Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?
 
 Hello
 I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
 she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
 to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
 open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
 change?
 we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
 works when using the macbook keyboard.
 surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
 if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
 thanks
 Hank
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
 or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
 the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>

Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[The wolf]

Hello

I did that and from what I can tell

it still isn't passing the key threw
the mac keyhoard sees it perfictly but the windows keybaord isn't
if other people who are able to get it to work what are they doing?
you are correct this should work but it isn't

On 4/5/2017 3:09 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

So, when you connect the Windows keyboard to the laptop, then press VO-k on the 
laptop, it should invoke Keyboard Practice and announce whatever key is pressed 
on either keyboard.  Therefore, you should be able to press keys on the Windows 
keyboard, and they should be announced as well as any keys you might press on 
the laptop.  Regarding whether a Windows keyboard works on a Mac or not, that 
is not the case.  When you plug in any USB keyboard into the Mac other than an 
Apple one, a dialog should appear asking you to press the key just to the right 
of the left shift key, then the key just to the left of the right shift key.  
This is so that the Mac can identify the keyboard and map it accordingly.  If 
this didn't happen, someone may have attempted to skip this step at some point. 
 You should be able to go into System Prefs, under the Keyboard pane and make 
this happen again so that the keyboard is properly identified.  Other than 
that, my instructions at the beginning of this note should help to, at least, 
determine what keys are what on that keyboard.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 15:36, The wolf  wrote:

also vo k is working perfictly when I use her keyboard on her macbook air its 
the windows keyboard that we can't get to access the voice over features
On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time, then you 
should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.  Then start 
pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is announced.  It's 
perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected simultaneously.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf  wrote:

Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the minue

I tried everything.

what else should I check?

clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.

thanks

Hank


On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her up to the 
Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys may be mixed up 
to begin with.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T.  wrote:

   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she can do to 
verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce any valid key or 
key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
her.
thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
bring up the menus,

  Give that a try,
-Original Message-



From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
works when using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with this it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Hank

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach
mark at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be se

Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice over?

[E.T.]

Tim,
   There is an option to have the Mac identify an external keyboard. 
Think its in System prefs, keyboard? I took a quick look but did not 
want to disconnect my keyboard. This could be the missing step.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/5/2017 3:11 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

We have, probably, 40 or 50 non-Apple keyboards in our facilities and
they work fine.  There are specific limitations such as distinguishing
between left and right option keys etc that are not recognizable on
third party keyboards, but regular keyboard functionality and VO
modifier keys should work fine.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 16:06, daj.griff...@gmail.com
 wrote:



I know others have had different experiences but I have never
personally been able to make any of my various Windows Keyboards work
properly on my iMac and I often got non responsive key presses and
strange unpredictable output.
Specifically I could never get the Microsoft Natural to work properly
though this may have been due to inaccessible driver setup which was
supposed to make the keyboard Mac compliant.
Certainly the advice for many keyboard options is that you need to use
special Mac drivers to make them work properly.

Apple keyboards or Apple clone keyboards like the Tactile pro one I use
work perfectly fine so I have decided for an easier life to stick to them.

David Griffith
*From: *The wolf 
*Sent: *05 April 2017 22:36
*To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com

*Subject: *Re: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to
voice over?

also vo k is working perfictly when I use her keyboard on her macbook
air its the windows keyboard that we can't get to access the voice over
features
On 4/5/2017 2:25 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

If you have an Apple keyboard that you can connect at the same time,

then you should be able to turn on keyboard help with the VO-k command.
Then start pressing keys on the Windows keyboard and see what is
announced.  It's perfectly fine to have two keyboards connected
simultaneously.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 13:57, The wolf 
> wrote:


Hello I tried the suggestions given and am still unable to get to the

minue


I tried everything.

what else should I check?

clearly something isn't set up properly but have no idea what it could be.

thanks

Hank


On 4/5/2017 10:45 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

I thought of that one, except if the regular VO-m isn't getting her

up to the Menubar, then I question if VO-k will work given that the keys
may be mixed up to begin with.


Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Apr 5, 2017, at 11:33, E.T. 
> wrote:


   I am jumping in at this point. There is a very easy test that she

can do to verify key placement. Do a VO-k and Voiceover will announce
any valid key or key combinations. Press escape to get out of this mode.


 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 4/5/2017 10:29 AM, The wolf wrote:

yes I am sure that she is using the right keys

I will be going over there some time today to try to fix this issue fore
her.
thanks
Hank

On 4/5/2017 2:05 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Are you sure she is using the correct keys?

  Remember that on a windows keyboard the alt and ctrl keys are not
together,

  On the left hand side of the space bar you have from right to left,
  Ctrl, windows key or command key on a mac and then alt or option on
a mac,

  Your friend needs to hold down ctrl and alt / option and hit M to
bring up the menus,

  Give that a try,
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com



[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of The wolf
Sent: Wednesday, 5 April 2017 5:57 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com



Subject: windows keyboard not passing some of the commands to voice

over?


Hello
I am trying to help one of my friends on her mac.
she is using a windows bluetooth keyboard the command that allows you
to get in to a minue isn't working what so ever so fore example when I
open a app I can't get to the minues is there something that I need to
change?
we tried several keyboards external and bluetooth the command only
works when using the macbook keyboard.
surely there is a way to fix so folks can use non apple keyboards?
if any one could help me out with

Gigabit LTE: Crazy Fast Wireless Speeds, Explained

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

I hope you find the following cNet article as useful and informative as I.

Enjoy,

Mark

CNET How To - Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 10:27 AM
Gigabit LTE: Crazy-fast wireless speeds, explained - CNET

You might have missed one of the Samsung Galaxy S8's best features --
support for Gigabit LTE. 
That's because, for now, it's still a little-known technology most phones
don't support. The good news is the carriers are doing something about it,
upgrading their networks to higher speeds and more capacity, all so that
episode of "The Walking Dead" or that YouTube cat video streams to your
phone without any distortions or buffering. And with that comes more phones
that support it.
As these networks get faster, you're going to hear the term Gigabit LTE get
bandied about. Samsung's Galaxy S8, for instance, is the first phone capable
of tapping into the technology.
But what is Gigabit LTE? And why should I care? Here are all the answers to
your Gigabit LTE questions.
What is Gigabit LTE?
Gigabit LTE is an advanced form of LTE, the 4G wireless technology that the
cellular carriers use to connect mobile devices. Just check out the upper
right-hand corner of your phone -- the letters LTE (which stand for
long-term evolution) will appear next to the signal bars.
Gigabit LTE is named so because the connection speed peaks at 1 gigabit per
second, or the same speed that Google Fiber offers its landline-based
internet connection. In other words, really, really fast stuff.
Is this that 5G thing I keep hearing about?
Nope. While many of the techniques used are similar to next-generation
wireless technology, this isn't 5G. Of course, the carriers could go on a
big marketing blitz and start calling it 5G (they did the same thing with
4G), but on a technical level, it's still part of the current generation of
wireless tech.
So what's true 5G?
5G is even faster, going well beyond 1 gigabits per second and making even
Google Fiber (and Gigabit LTE) look like a turtle taking a leisurely stroll.
More importantly, it's extremely responsive -- minimizing the lag between
when your phone pings the network and when it gets a reply down to virtually
zero. That allows you to do things like remotely drive a car or perform
surgery. 
Does Gigabit LTE mean you'll get 1 gigabit of data all the time?
Nope. The operative word there is "peak." It's a theoretical benchmark that
you'll never actually get to in real-world situations, whether due to
reception issues or the fact that other people are competing for the same
signal.
Sounds awesome. How does it work?
This is where it gets a little technical, so I'll break it down as simply as
possible.
There are three ingredients that make up Gigabit LTE. The first is something
called 4x4 MIMO, which simply put is having four antennas in the phone able
to pick up different signals. Hey, you can always have more antennas (even
if they are pretty hard to cram into our increasingly svelte phones). 
Then there's carrier aggregation, which takes different bands of radio
frequencies (which mobile phones use to transmit data) and binds them
together so your phone can pick up the speediest one available. Think of it
as a three-lane highway in which you can weave in and out depending on which
has less traffic.
Lastly, there's 256 QAM, which is an acronym of words that are
mind-bogglingly complex, but all you really need to know is it's a way to
widen those highway lanes so more information (or cars) can travel on them. 
Taken together, and you've got a network that is not only faster, but has
enough capacity for all your binge-watching needs.
Thanks, now I have a headache.
I warned you.
OK, so how fast is Gigabit LTE?
Your mileage will vary based on where you live and how many people are also
on the network. Australia carrier Telstra has launched its Gigabit LTE
network, and it has seen speeds between 100 to 300 megabits per second, or
nearly 18 times faster than the average speeds posted by T-Mobile and
Verizon's recent performance in an OpenSignal test.
T-Mobile claims that a Gigabit LTE network let you download a two-hour movie
in 15 seconds.
What can I do with it?
Well, there's the downloading movies bit. Or you can download photos, videos
or big PowerPoint presentations in a flash. You can also kiss goodbye to
that lag time you see when you load up older pictures in Google Photos.
Technically speaking, it's actually faster to pull files off of the cloud
than for your phone to read the memory on your flash card.
Any other benefits?
Beyond speed, getting more people on a Gigabit LTE network means you free up
more data capacity for everyone. Every time you ping the network for a video
or website, you are hogging up that sliver of spectrum for your phone. But
if you can get done in a flash, you free up that spectrum for another user.
Bottom line: You're likely to see fewer awkward pauses as you load up a
website. 
When can I get Gigabit LTE?
Ah, the million-dollar question. The carriers are all i

Re: Deal, free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?

[Nancy Badger]

Scott,
Thanks very much for the info. I am asking because our IT people want to set up 
a VPN because of the nature of the things I do at work. So you are saying that 
this would most likely be voiceover friendly and easy for me to use? I 
understand basically what it is. I'm just not sure if it will work with 
voiceover.
Thanks
Nancy

Nancy Badger, Ph.D
Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
UT Chattanooga
Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 10:50 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Hi Nancy, let me give you a bit of background.
> 
> VPN stands for virtual private network.  Basically what it means is there can 
> be network resources or services you want to get to privately and securely.  
> Another use, your use most likely, is you want to secure the communication 
> from your device to a wired secure destination where someone in the middle 
> can’t grab your information on the way by.  Say you were at a public WiFi 
> point and you didn’t use a VPN.  It’s possible for example with my computer I 
> could be sitting a table over from you and grab your name / password and over 
> time more and more critical data as you use your computer not even knowing 
> what I’m up to.  So a VPN encrypts that data and makes it impossible for me 
> to intercept.  That’s very important for public WiFi.
> 
> They are very easy to use.  A client is installed on your computer and you 
> activate it by clicking connect on a panel or at most entering in a name and 
> password.  If you use keys you may hit connect only and not need anything 
> more than that.  In other cases you can have them automatically connect once 
> booted.  It’s up to the user.  Typically they are quite accessible on most 
> platforms, options range from free on up and it’s a matter of installing 
> software.
> 
> There are other types of VPNs and all sorts of configurations, I’m going to 
> leave them out for now as to not confuse you worse then I may have already.  
> Let me know if you have any questions.
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Nancy Badger  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you saying that this one actually does work with voiceover? I don't know 
>> anything about VPNs. Are they easy to use? Thanks in advance.
>> Nancy
>> 
>> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
>> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
>> UT Chattanooga
>> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 9:30 AM, -dan d.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Current deal, $29 lifetime membership.
>>> 
>>> ScienceAlert deal: TigerVPN can help protect your browsing history from ISPs
>>> 
>>> http://www.sciencealert.com/sciencealert-deal-tigervpn-can-help-protect-your-browsing-history-from-internet-service-providers
>>> 
>>> XB
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://grou

Re: Deal, free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?

[Des Delgadillo]

Nancy,
I have lots of experience using HotSpot Shield on both my Mac and iPhone. Works 
like a charm. Give them a look and if you have any additional questions feel 
free to contact me off-list:
desdelgadi...@gmail.com 


Des Delgadillo
Reporter
desdelgadi...@gmail.com
(562) 652-3415

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Nancy Badger  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> Thanks very much for the info. I am asking because our IT people want to set 
> up a VPN because of the nature of the things I do at work. So you are saying 
> that this would most likely be voiceover friendly and easy for me to use? I 
> understand basically what it is. I'm just not sure if it will work with 
> voiceover.
> Thanks
> Nancy
> 
> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
> UT Chattanooga
> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 10:50 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Nancy, let me give you a bit of background.
>> 
>> VPN stands for virtual private network.  Basically what it means is there 
>> can be network resources or services you want to get to privately and 
>> securely.  Another use, your use most likely, is you want to secure the 
>> communication from your device to a wired secure destination where someone 
>> in the middle can’t grab your information on the way by.  Say you were at a 
>> public WiFi point and you didn’t use a VPN.  It’s possible for example with 
>> my computer I could be sitting a table over from you and grab your name / 
>> password and over time more and more critical data as you use your computer 
>> not even knowing what I’m up to.  So a VPN encrypts that data and makes it 
>> impossible for me to intercept.  That’s very important for public WiFi.
>> 
>> They are very easy to use.  A client is installed on your computer and you 
>> activate it by clicking connect on a panel or at most entering in a name and 
>> password.  If you use keys you may hit connect only and not need anything 
>> more than that.  In other cases you can have them automatically connect once 
>> booted.  It’s up to the user.  Typically they are quite accessible on most 
>> platforms, options range from free on up and it’s a matter of installing 
>> software.
>> 
>> There are other types of VPNs and all sorts of configurations, I’m going to 
>> leave them out for now as to not confuse you worse then I may have already.  
>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Nancy Badger  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you saying that this one actually does work with voiceover? I don't 
>>> know anything about VPNs. Are they easy to use? Thanks in advance.
>>> Nancy
>>> 
>>> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
>>> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
>>> UT Chattanooga
>>> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
>>> 
 On Apr 4, 2017, at 9:30 AM, -dan d.  wrote:
 
 
 Current deal, $29 lifetime membership.
 
 ScienceAlert deal: TigerVPN can help protect your browsing history from 
 ISPs
 
 http://www.sciencealert.com/sciencealert-deal-tigervpn-can-help-protect-your-browsing-history-from-internet-service-providers
 
 XB
 
 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> 

Re: Deal, free or paid vpn that works with Voiceover on Mac and iOS?

[David Chittenden]

If it is a VPN connection, it will be accessible. If it is a VPN app to access 
a VPN service, the app may or may not be accessible.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 6/04/2017, at 13:41, Nancy Badger  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> Thanks very much for the info. I am asking because our IT people want to set 
> up a VPN because of the nature of the things I do at work. So you are saying 
> that this would most likely be voiceover friendly and easy for me to use? I 
> understand basically what it is. I'm just not sure if it will work with 
> voiceover.
> Thanks
> Nancy
> 
> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
> UT Chattanooga
> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
> 
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 10:50 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Nancy, let me give you a bit of background.
>> 
>> VPN stands for virtual private network.  Basically what it means is there 
>> can be network resources or services you want to get to privately and 
>> securely.  Another use, your use most likely, is you want to secure the 
>> communication from your device to a wired secure destination where someone 
>> in the middle can’t grab your information on the way by.  Say you were at a 
>> public WiFi point and you didn’t use a VPN.  It’s possible for example with 
>> my computer I could be sitting a table over from you and grab your name / 
>> password and over time more and more critical data as you use your computer 
>> not even knowing what I’m up to.  So a VPN encrypts that data and makes it 
>> impossible for me to intercept.  That’s very important for public WiFi.
>> 
>> They are very easy to use.  A client is installed on your computer and you 
>> activate it by clicking connect on a panel or at most entering in a name and 
>> password.  If you use keys you may hit connect only and not need anything 
>> more than that.  In other cases you can have them automatically connect once 
>> booted.  It’s up to the user.  Typically they are quite accessible on most 
>> platforms, options range from free on up and it’s a matter of installing 
>> software.
>> 
>> There are other types of VPNs and all sorts of configurations, I’m going to 
>> leave them out for now as to not confuse you worse then I may have already.  
>> Let me know if you have any questions.
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Nancy Badger  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you saying that this one actually does work with voiceover? I don't 
>>> know anything about VPNs. Are they easy to use? Thanks in advance.
>>> Nancy
>>> 
>>> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
>>> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
>>> UT Chattanooga
>>> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
>>> 
 On Apr 4, 2017, at 9:30 AM, -dan d.  wrote:
 
 
 Current deal, $29 lifetime membership.
 
 ScienceAlert deal: TigerVPN can help protect your browsing history from 
 ISPs
 
 http://www.sciencealert.com/sciencealert-deal-tigervpn-can-help-protect-your-browsing-history-from-internet-service-providers
 
 XB
 
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