Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Caitlyn Furness]

Hi,
I have the sports model of the watch.

sometimes, but not all the time, mine comes on if a sleeve touches it.  It 
happens in particular with one of my coats.  I also have raise to talk turned 
off, because that’s totally annoying to me as well, having it talk every time I 
move my arm!!  Aside from this minor annoyance, though, it works great!  Now, 
if I could get into a habit of charging the thing every night I will be doing 
great!

Caitlyn

> On Dec 10, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> First day without the watch and I miss it, a time piece on my wrist.
> 
> Now I’ll tell you why I gave up on it as I was very happy with it but mine 
> had this flaw and I don’t know if anyone had it.
> 
> Please note wrist to raise with voice over was off.  So think about this.  
> You do your normal duties be it round the house, at work or out and about.  
> Then suddenly this watch would start talking as if you had pressed it.  Not 
> just that, it would go in and out of apps as if you were touching it.  I had 
> to tap it ten or 20 times to lock it before it stopped.  Some times when it 
> was raining and my sleeve got wet and it would start talking, talking and 
> talking!  So I’d have to power it off.  You don’t know how much it got on my 
> nerves, I wanted to throw it somewhere for it to stop!  I thought the new 
> update would sort it as I had reset it loads.  New update didn’t stop it.
> 
> You would have said call Apple but Apple would have said for me to reset and 
> then I’d have to take a day off work just to sit at home to wait for a 
> courier and I couldn’t do it at this time as my annual leave has almost 
> expired!  So yesterday morning after another period of this watch doing its 
> moving in to apps back and forth in and out, I got to the point, I would not 
> tolerate this watch anymore.  So you see what a time I had with it.  Also, 
> after the new update, when my work out ended, it would continue to count and 
> count down and I had to power it off.  Then another day it would crash for a 
> whole day and when it finally come back on, there would be no power left it 
> died until it was charged!  So there is my story.  So now I wait for the next 
> one and this time I’ll not get the sports as I am wondering because it was 
> sports it did this thing that got on my nerves!  How I miss my time piece 
> though.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:00, Alex Hall > > wrote:
>> 
>> I'm waiting until quarter 2 of 2016, when the second generation should 
>> arrive. I'd love to hear what you (the OP) disliked; all the better to make 
>> as informed a choice as I can when we see what the updated hardware has.
>>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 15:59, Christopher-Mark Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm actually very very highly considerring getting one at the beginning of 
>>> next year.
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Donna Goodin 
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:35 PM
 Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.
 
 I completely agree!  I'm still very happy with mine.  Do let us know, 
 Kawal.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Daniel Miller  > wrote:
> 
> That’s what I’d like to know as well. I absolutely love mine, and don’t 
> notice any accessibility concerns at all.
> Now do I wish the hardware could’ve been a little faster? Yes, but for a 
> first-generation product that’s had 2 major updates since it’s launch, 
> it’s quite remarkable.
> 
>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, I thought you liked the watch.  What did you find frustrating about 
>> it?
>> 
>> I was going to get one but it sounds like a new one will be released 
>> early in 2016.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 9, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I gave up on my Apple watch today as I was not happy with it.
>>> 
>>> I don’t think the latest update did it any favours!  So I gave it up 
>>> and sold it.  Now I wait for the next generation and I hope it will be 
>>> more functional than what it was as I’d like a little more independence 
>>> from the phone!
>>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>>> 
>>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin 
>>> Money Giving  page. 
>>> 
>>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
>>> http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland 
>>>  where you can also 
>>> sponsor me online.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the

Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

My concerns are more for functionality than accessibility.  The truth is, it 
had no place on my wrist while I was on holiday, despite the fact that, had I 
wished to, I could have charged it.  Worse yet, it spends most of its time, 
when it is on my wrist, at its lock screen, because the Wi-Fi chip just isn’t 
very powerful and this makes it less useful as a remote and notification 
disposer than I’d have liked.

So yes, it’s hard not to see why I shouldn’t sell mine, too.  I don’t like to 
cast it off, as it’s a wonderful and beauteous thing when it works, but right 
now it’s dead wood.

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Merge PDFs with PDFPen Pro

[Emilio Hernandez]

Hello everyone,

As the subject line suggests, I am curious to know how others have merged PDFs 
together with PDFPen Pro?
Also, with OCR, how have others successfully converted text with the “form 
fill” feature, so PDFs can be completed on the computer?
Currently, I have to have sighted help with some forms, which I dislike 
printing, just to scan and make electronic once again.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

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Re: el capitan upgrade pod cast

[Mike Arrigo]

It would be nice if that were the case, but, unless Apple has changed 
things, each operating system has its own recovery installer, that's 
why the upgrade has to be installed first.

Original message:

Hi Mike,


I was under the impression that if re-installing the OS from the 
recovery partition, the latest Version of the OS would be installed. 
So, even if, as I’mn my case, you were running Yosemite and you 
reinstalled from the yosemite recovery partition, it would bring down 
and install El Capitan, not Yosemite. Am I mistaken? if so, is that why 
you needed first to install El Cap as an upgrade to get the updated 
recovery partition?





On Dec 10, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


Hey everyone, for anyone who is interested, I didd a pod cast on how to 
upgrade to El Capitan and hopefully avoid the issues that some users 
have had, so far it's working well for me, here is the link.

http://media.blubrry.com/blindgeekzone/p/www.blind-geek-zone.net/wp-content/uploads/gravity_forms/3-98839556b66feeea5fbbaaad6c392a4c/2015/12/el-capitan-upgrade.mp3



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Re: Alex for the Mac and Correctness of Pronunciation

[Craig Werner]

Thanks very much to all who have responded to my request for help.

Shaun and Alex, I typically run my Mac OS voices at around 50 percent.
Sometimes, the faults I perceive are accentuated if I run them at a
rate under 50%.

Nicolai, here are a couple of examples which demonstrate the kind of
behavior to which I am referring.

In the first example, note the pronunciation of the word "department."
 It sounds to me as if the "e" is almost absent, and so is the final
"T."

Example 1: I hope to see you at future department gatherings.

In the second example, note the pronunciation of the word "regards."
It sounds to me as if the last two letters are "g s," not "d s."  I
have typed it twice on two lines to allow the example to be listened
to line by line.

Example 2:
Regards,
Regards,

A couple of things you should know about my listening habits: First, I
am a Windows refugee and have spent over twenty years listening to and
appreciating the Eloquence voice for its clear pronunciation but
admittedly not for its grace or beauty.  I have been listening to Alex
for about five months.  Second, I feel much more comfortable with
Samantha, Karen, and Daniel, all voices available on my iPhone 5,
which I have owned for about three years.

Also, please remember that I am using OS X 10.10.5 and am wondering if
Alex sounds better with OS X 11.2.  I had a brief flirtation with El
Capitan before deciding, as a very new user, to roll back to Yosemite,
so I don't have enough recall of what Alex sounded like with the new
version to make a comparison.

It appears that my concerns represent a minority viewpoint, but I'm
hoping something useful will come out of this thread anyway.  Again,
all comments welcome.

Thank you.

Craig

n 12/10/15, Alex Hall  wrote:
> I use Alex at 70% on iOS and OS X, and have rarely noticed a problem. Put
> another way, Alex has no more pronunciation oddities, to my ear, than do
> other popular voices. Often, he's easier to understand, and he seems to try
> less auto-expansion tricks than do Nuance voices, which is nice. He also
> does that cool thing with words surrounded by single quotes… Anyway, I'm
> just saying I haven't seen any problems with his speech, at least not that
> I've noticed.
>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 18:35, Nicolai Svendsen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I'd also be very curious for a more specific example (a sentence where
>> this occurs.)
>>
>> I do notice that sometimes, Alex does swallow words and almost mashes them
>> together with others, making it hard to hear parts of the word, but Apple
>> is usually good about addressing this. This happens so rarely and I have
>> not seen this since OS X 10.11.2, even at speech rate at 100%.
>>
>> Nicolai
>>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi. I don't notice any pronunciation issues with Alex. Just out of
>>> curiosity, what's the rate of your speech? I keep all my voices at a 35%
>>> speech rate because they sound the most natural with that rate. Any
>>> higher is unnatural.
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>>
 On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Craig Werner 
 wrote:

 Hello,everyone.

 As we all know, preference for one voice over another is a matter  of
 subjective interpretation.  However, it strikes me that one criterion
 is less subjective than the others: the ability of a synthesizer to
 pronounce a word correctly in the dialect and language the user has
 chosen.  In this respect, it seems to me, Alex doesn't perform well.
 I have noticed that even common words are too often mispronounced,
 and, in Yosemite 10.10.5, at least, it is the short ones, such as
 "to," "the," "into," "that," etc. that are often mispronounced or have
 portions of them swallowed up.  Whether these words are correctly
 pronounced may depend on their position on a line and their
 contiguity, or lack of it, with punctuation marks.

 I'm wondering about two questions.  First, is Alex's pronunciation
 more correct under OS 10.11 than under 10.10?  Second, are there other
 voices that pronounce common words more accurately?

 Thanks for all help.

 Craig

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Re: Alex for the Mac and Correctness of Pronunciation

[Alex Hall]

Using Alex on 10.11.2 at 70%, I noticed no problems in your examples. However, 
my rate is fast enough that picking out a D sound versus a hard G sound at the 
end of a word is impossible; my brain hears what it expects at the end of 
'regards'. In the first example, though, I heard 'department' quite clearly.

Remember that Samantha, Daniel, and the rest of the gang are available on OS X 
if you'd rather use them. Just open the VO utility, go th the speech category 
and then the voices tab, choose 'customize' from the popup menu of voices, and 
choose the ones you want in the resulting table. Once they finish downloading, 
you'll have access to them.
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 10:00, Craig Werner  wrote:
> 
> Thanks very much to all who have responded to my request for help.
> 
> Shaun and Alex, I typically run my Mac OS voices at around 50 percent.
> Sometimes, the faults I perceive are accentuated if I run them at a
> rate under 50%.
> 
> Nicolai, here are a couple of examples which demonstrate the kind of
> behavior to which I am referring.
> 
> In the first example, note the pronunciation of the word "department."
> It sounds to me as if the "e" is almost absent, and so is the final
> "T."
> 
> Example 1: I hope to see you at future department gatherings.
> 
> In the second example, note the pronunciation of the word "regards."
> It sounds to me as if the last two letters are "g s," not "d s."  I
> have typed it twice on two lines to allow the example to be listened
> to line by line.
> 
> Example 2:
> Regards,
> Regards,
> 
> A couple of things you should know about my listening habits: First, I
> am a Windows refugee and have spent over twenty years listening to and
> appreciating the Eloquence voice for its clear pronunciation but
> admittedly not for its grace or beauty.  I have been listening to Alex
> for about five months.  Second, I feel much more comfortable with
> Samantha, Karen, and Daniel, all voices available on my iPhone 5,
> which I have owned for about three years.
> 
> Also, please remember that I am using OS X 10.10.5 and am wondering if
> Alex sounds better with OS X 11.2.  I had a brief flirtation with El
> Capitan before deciding, as a very new user, to roll back to Yosemite,
> so I don't have enough recall of what Alex sounded like with the new
> version to make a comparison.
> 
> It appears that my concerns represent a minority viewpoint, but I'm
> hoping something useful will come out of this thread anyway.  Again,
> all comments welcome.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Craig
> 
> n 12/10/15, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> I use Alex at 70% on iOS and OS X, and have rarely noticed a problem. Put
>> another way, Alex has no more pronunciation oddities, to my ear, than do
>> other popular voices. Often, he's easier to understand, and he seems to try
>> less auto-expansion tricks than do Nuance voices, which is nice. He also
>> does that cool thing with words surrounded by single quotes… Anyway, I'm
>> just saying I haven't seen any problems with his speech, at least not that
>> I've noticed.
>>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 18:35, Nicolai Svendsen 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> I'd also be very curious for a more specific example (a sentence where
>>> this occurs.)
>>> 
>>> I do notice that sometimes, Alex does swallow words and almost mashes them
>>> together with others, making it hard to hear parts of the word, but Apple
>>> is usually good about addressing this. This happens so rarely and I have
>>> not seen this since OS X 10.11.2, even at speech rate at 100%.
>>> 
>>> Nicolai
 On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi. I don't notice any pronunciation issues with Alex. Just out of
 curiosity, what's the rate of your speech? I keep all my voices at a 35%
 speech rate because they sound the most natural with that rate. Any
 higher is unnatural.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Craig Werner 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,everyone.
> 
> As we all know, preference for one voice over another is a matter  of
> subjective interpretation.  However, it strikes me that one criterion
> is less subjective than the others: the ability of a synthesizer to
> pronounce a word correctly in the dialect and language the user has
> chosen.  In this respect, it seems to me, Alex doesn't perform well.
> I have noticed that even common words are too often mispronounced,
> and, in Yosemite 10.10.5, at least, it is the short ones, such as
> "to," "the," "into," "that," etc. that are often mispronounced or have
> portions of them swallowed up.  Whether these words are correctly
> pronounced may depend on their position on a line and their
> contiguity, or lack of it, with punctuation marks.
> 
> I'm wondering about two questions.  

Toggling QuickNav in websites

[Chris Meredith]

Hey gang,

I can’t imagine this hasn’t come up before—but has anyone else noticed that  
toggling QuickNav on or off doesn’t reliably work if you’re on a Web page?  My 
workaround has been to enable Keyboard Comander and map the QuickNav toggle to 
Right Option+Q, but I wondered if I was just missing something.
Also, anyone else notice that, if you use the caps lock as the VO modifier, the 
VO modifier occasionally gets stuck?  It’s rather unpleasant.

Thanks,
Chris

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Re: el capitan upgrade pod cast

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Nice work, Mike.

As you discovered, the Erase function of Disk Utility now allows you to choose 
the partition scheme.  The Partition function allows you to partition disks.

I love the idea of using the Recovery HD from a USB drive, and I’m glad to see 
that the Recovery Disk Assistant still works, but that’s still as many copies 
downloaded from the Interwebs as Macs to upgrade.  One of those Macs would have 
to be a cache to mitigate this.  For three Macs, you’d only have to download 
the operating system twice.

In case you missed it, the recovery image was itself updated; I hope you didn’t 
do a software update to find that there was a newer image available.  The 
update only applies a fixed recovery image, though, and it would be easy enough 
to recreate your drive.

As to the OS itself, even after 10.11.2, I’m still gritting my teeth a lot.  I 
love the hardware-software integration of OS X, but my finger is still on the 
Windows button.

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Re: el capitan upgrade pod cast

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

That’s true, but this of course requires you repeat that for every little 
update.  The advantage of the recovery method is that the stick you build 
should be very stable.

If only every Mac on a network could cache software from Apple, and replicate 
the cache content to other Macs.  Just like Windows 10 does. :)

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Re: el capitan upgrade pod cast

[Bill Dengler]

You could always download El Capitan from the app store, then use 
createinstallmedia (in the resources folder) to create a USB installer. Then 
boot from that and install.

Bill
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Nice work, Mike.
> 
> As you discovered, the Erase function of Disk Utility now allows you to 
> choose the partition scheme.  The Partition function allows you to partition 
> disks.
> 
> I love the idea of using the Recovery HD from a USB drive, and I’m glad to 
> see that the Recovery Disk Assistant still works, but that’s still as many 
> copies downloaded from the Interwebs as Macs to upgrade.  One of those Macs 
> would have to be a cache to mitigate this.  For three Macs, you’d only have 
> to download the operating system twice.
> 
> In case you missed it, the recovery image was itself updated; I hope you 
> didn’t do a software update to find that there was a newer image available.  
> The update only applies a fixed recovery image, though, and it would be easy 
> enough to recreate your drive.
> 
> As to the OS itself, even after 10.11.2, I’m still gritting my teeth a lot.  
> I love the hardware-software integration of OS X, but my finger is still on 
> the Windows button.
> 
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Arrowing around the screen under El Capiten

[Mike Busboom]

Hello everyone,

I am trying to help a blind friend who is using El Capiten.  He is a relatively 
new Mac user.  He told me that before upgrading to El Capiten, he could arrow 
or cursor around documents and e-mails a character at a time, just using the 
right and left arrow keys.  When I told him that he could easily do this using 
VO-Shift-left or right arrow, he didn’t dispute this, but he said that he 
preferred performing this function, just by using the right and left arrow keys.

When I tried just using these arrow keys, I was able to move through a document 
or e-mail, a word at a time, but not character-by-character.  Is there a way to 
get VO to announce the next or previous character, as opposed to the next or 
previous word, just by using the left and right arrow keys, when moving around 
in a document or e-mail?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

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Re: Arrowing around the screen under El Capiten

[Bill Dengler]

You have enabled quick nav.
Press left and right arrows together to disable.

Bill
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Mike Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am trying to help a blind friend who is using El Capiten.  He is a 
> relatively new Mac user.  He told me that before upgrading to El Capiten, he 
> could arrow or cursor around documents and e-mails a character at a time, 
> just using the right and left arrow keys.  When I told him that he could 
> easily do this using VO-Shift-left or right arrow, he didn’t dispute this, 
> but he said that he preferred performing this function, just by using the 
> right and left arrow keys.
> 
> When I tried just using these arrow keys, I was able to move through a 
> document or e-mail, a word at a time, but not character-by-character.  Is 
> there a way to get VO to announce the next or previous character, as opposed 
> to the next or previous word, just by using the left and right arrow keys, 
> when moving around in a document or e-mail?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Mike
> 
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Re: Toggling QuickNav in websites

[Alex Hall]

Yes to both. For the first one, hit the control key right before toggling Quick 
Nav, and it works. The second, I'm careful to vo-arrow with the control and 
option keys, or just tab, when I know I'm near a password field. Passwords seem 
to be the problem.
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 11:39, Chris Meredith  wrote:
> 
> Hey gang,
> 
> I can’t imagine this hasn’t come up before—but has anyone else noticed that  
> toggling QuickNav on or off doesn’t reliably work if you’re on a Web page?  
> My workaround has been to enable Keyboard Comander and map the QuickNav 
> toggle to Right Option+Q, but I wondered if I was just missing something.
> Also, anyone else notice that, if you use the caps lock as the VO modifier, 
> the VO modifier occasionally gets stuck?  It’s rather unpleasant.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
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Re: Arrowing around the screen under El Capiten

[Alex Hall]

This should already work, no matter your OS version. Be sure Quick Nav is off, 
or you might run into problems.
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 13:33, Mike Busboom  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am trying to help a blind friend who is using El Capiten.  He is a 
> relatively new Mac user.  He told me that before upgrading to El Capiten, he 
> could arrow or cursor around documents and e-mails a character at a time, 
> just using the right and left arrow keys.  When I told him that he could 
> easily do this using VO-Shift-left or right arrow, he didn’t dispute this, 
> but he said that he preferred performing this function, just by using the 
> right and left arrow keys.
> 
> When I tried just using these arrow keys, I was able to move through a 
> document or e-mail, a word at a time, but not character-by-character.  Is 
> there a way to get VO to announce the next or previous character, as opposed 
> to the next or previous word, just by using the left and right arrow keys, 
> when moving around in a document or e-mail?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Mike
> 
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Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com




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MathML and VOiceOver?

[Bill Dengler]

Hello,
I’m running OS X 10.11.2.
It seems that when VoiceOver encounters MathMl on a page, say all behaves 
unexpectedly.
Steps to reproduce:
1. GO to http://enwp.org/special:preferences
2. Click the appearance tab.
3. In The math section, select "MathML with SVG or PNG fallback (recommended 
for modern browsers and accessibility tools)”
4. Click save.
5. Go to http://enwp.org/ackermann_function
Perform a say all.
On other sites, MathML is not focusable; when VO encounters it the focus jumps 
to somewhere else on the page, making it difficult to read (or skip) the math. 
For example: 
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/253997/how-to-find-the-sum-of-an-alternating-series
Any ideas?

Thanks,
Bill

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Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

And, you never thought about checking to see if you had a defected model which 
could have been replaced?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kawal Gucukoglu 
  To: Macvisionaries 
  Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:13 PM
  Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.


  First day without the watch and I miss it, a time piece on my wrist.


  Now I’ll tell you why I gave up on it as I was very happy with it but mine 
had this flaw and I don’t know if anyone had it.


  Please note wrist to raise with voice over was off.  So think about this.  
You do your normal duties be it round the house, at work or out and about.  
Then suddenly this watch would start talking as if you had pressed it.  Not 
just that, it would go in and out of apps as if you were touching it.  I had to 
tap it ten or 20 times to lock it before it stopped.  Some times when it was 
raining and my sleeve got wet and it would start talking, talking and talking!  
So I’d have to power it off.  You don’t know how much it got on my nerves, I 
wanted to throw it somewhere for it to stop!  I thought the new update would 
sort it as I had reset it loads.  New update didn’t stop it.


  You would have said call Apple but Apple would have said for me to reset and 
then I’d have to take a day off work just to sit at home to wait for a courier 
and I couldn’t do it at this time as my annual leave has almost expired!  So 
yesterday morning after another period of this watch doing its moving in to 
apps back and forth in and out, I got to the point, I would not tolerate this 
watch anymore.  So you see what a time I had with it.  Also, after the new 
update, when my work out ended, it would continue to count and count down and I 
had to power it off.  Then another day it would crash for a whole day and when 
it finally come back on, there would be no power left it died until it was 
charged!  So there is my story.  So now I wait for the next one and this time 
I’ll not get the sports as I am wondering because it was sports it did this 
thing that got on my nerves!  How I miss my time piece though.


  Kawal. 

On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:00, Alex Hall  wrote:


I'm waiting until quarter 2 of 2016, when the second generation should 
arrive. I'd love to hear what you (the OP) disliked; all the better to make as 
informed a choice as I can when we see what the updated hardware has.

  On Dec 10, 2015, at 15:59, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


  I'm actually very very highly considerring getting one at the beginning 
of next year.

  Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: Donna Goodin 
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.


I completely agree!  I'm still very happy with mine.  Do let us know, 
Kawal. 
Cheers,
Donna

  On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Daniel Miller  
wrote:


  That’s what I’d like to know as well. I absolutely love mine, and 
don’t notice any accessibility concerns at all. 
  Now do I wish the hardware could’ve been a little faster? Yes, but 
for a first-generation product that’s had 2 major updates since it’s launch, 
it’s quite remarkable.


On Dec 10, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Scott Granados  
wrote:


Wow, I thought you liked the watch.  What did you find frustrating 
about it? 


I was going to get one but it sounds like a new one will be 
released early in 2016.




  On Dec 9, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  
wrote:


  I gave up on my Apple watch today as I was not happy with it. 


  I don’t think the latest update did it any favours!  So I gave it 
up and sold it.  Now I wait for the next generation and I hope it will be more 
functional than what it was as I’d like a little more independence from the 
phone!

  I'm fundraising for RNIB.

  Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my 
Virgin Money Giving page. 

  To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can also sponsor me 
online.




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Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Hate to say it, but I totally 100% agree with George.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: george b 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:36 PM
  Subject: RE: I gave up on my Apple watch.


  Well in reading this email.  I think if you would of requested a new device 
you would of not had these issues and would of still had your device.

   

  From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
  Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 14:14
  To: Macvisionaries 
  Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

   

  First day without the watch and I miss it, a time piece on my wrist.

   

  Now I’ll tell you why I gave up on it as I was very happy with it but mine 
had this flaw and I don’t know if anyone had it.

   

  Please note wrist to raise with voice over was off.  So think about this.  
You do your normal duties be it round the house, at work or out and about.  
Then suddenly this watch would start talking as if you had pressed it.  Not 
just that, it would go in and out of apps as if you were touching it.  I had to 
tap it ten or 20 times to lock it before it stopped.  Some times when it was 
raining and my sleeve got wet and it would start talking, talking and talking!  
So I’d have to power it off.  You don’t know how much it got on my nerves, I 
wanted to throw it somewhere for it to stop!  I thought the new update would 
sort it as I had reset it loads.  New update didn’t stop it.

   

  You would have said call Apple but Apple would have said for me to reset and 
then I’d have to take a day off work just to sit at home to wait for a courier 
and I couldn’t do it at this time as my annual leave has almost expired!  So 
yesterday morning after another period of this watch doing its moving in to 
apps back and forth in and out, I got to the point, I would not tolerate this 
watch anymore.  So you see what a time I had with it.  Also, after the new 
update, when my work out ended, it would continue to count and count down and I 
had to power it off.  Then another day it would crash for a whole day and when 
it finally come back on, there would be no power left it died until it was 
charged!  So there is my story.  So now I wait for the next one and this time 
I’ll not get the sports as I am wondering because it was sports it did this 
thing that got on my nerves!  How I miss my time piece though.

   

  Kawal. 

On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:00, Alex Hall  wrote:

 

I'm waiting until quarter 2 of 2016, when the second generation should 
arrive. I'd love to hear what you (the OP) disliked; all the better to make as 
informed a choice as I can when we see what the updated hardware has.

  On Dec 10, 2015, at 15:59, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

   

  I'm actually very very highly considerring getting one at the beginning 
of next year.

   

  Chris.

   

- Original Message - 

From: Donna Goodin 

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:35 PM

Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

 

I completely agree!  I'm still very happy with mine.  Do let us know, 
Kawal. 

Cheers,

Donna

  On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Daniel Miller  
wrote:

   

  That’s what I’d like to know as well. I absolutely love mine, and 
don’t notice any accessibility concerns at all. 

  Now do I wish the hardware could’ve been a little faster? Yes, but 
for a first-generation product that’s had 2 major updates since it’s launch, 
it’s quite remarkable.

   

On Dec 10, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Scott Granados  
wrote:

 

Wow, I thought you liked the watch.  What did you find frustrating 
about it? 

 

I was going to get one but it sounds like a new one will be 
released early in 2016.

 

 

  On Dec 9, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  
wrote:

   

  I gave up on my Apple watch today as I was not happy with it. 

   

  I don’t think the latest update did it any favours!  So I gave it 
up and sold it.  Now I wait for the next generation and I hope it will be more 
functional than what it was as I’d like a little more independence from the 
phone!

  I'm fundraising for RNIB.

  Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my 
Virgin Money Giving page. 

  To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can also sponsor me 
online.

   

   

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Visionaries list.
   
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l

Re: Alex for the Mac and Correctness of Pronunciation

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

thir, tee, five, per, cent, is, w'w'w'way, too, suh, low'w'w for, my, 
ligh, king!



Seriously, I have had no issues either, and I run mine at about 70 to 75.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: Alex for the Mac and Correctness of Pronunciation


Hi. I don't notice any pronunciation issues with Alex. Just out of 
curiosity, what's the rate of your speech? I keep all my voices at a 35% 
speech rate because they sound the most natural with that rate. Any higher 
is unnatural.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Craig Werner  wrote:

Hello,everyone.

As we all know, preference for one voice over another is a matter  of
subjective interpretation.  However, it strikes me that one criterion
is less subjective than the others: the ability of a synthesizer to
pronounce a word correctly in the dialect and language the user has
chosen.  In this respect, it seems to me, Alex doesn't perform well.
I have noticed that even common words are too often mispronounced,
and, in Yosemite 10.10.5, at least, it is the short ones, such as
"to," "the," "into," "that," etc. that are often mispronounced or have
portions of them swallowed up.  Whether these words are correctly
pronounced may depend on their position on a line and their
contiguity, or lack of it, with punctuation marks.

I'm wondering about two questions.  First, is Alex's pronunciation
more correct under OS 10.11 than under 10.10?  Second, are there other
voices that pronounce common words more accurately?

Thanks for all help.

Craig

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Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You wrote:

I did not like to share this with the list, just in case someone thought that I 
was being stupid.

Firstly, you're not stupid.  The only dumb question is the one not asked.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kawal Gucukoglu 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 10:26 PM
  Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.


  If I had more days left to play with, I probably would have called Apple and 
sorted it out. 


  I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. I just thought that I was 
doing something wrong with it. And, I did not like to share this with the list, 
just in case someone thought that I was being stupid.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On 11 Dec 2015, at 3:13 am, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:


Both were disabled. Anyway, the thing has gone now! I just wait for the 
next!

Sent from my iPhone

On 10 Dec 2015, at 10:45 pm, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:


  Hi Kawal, were activate on wrist raise, and speak on wrist raise, both 
disabled?

  Jonathan Mosen
  Mosen Consulting
  Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
  http://Mosen.org


On 11/12/2015, at 11:13 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:


First day without the watch and I miss it, a time piece on my wrist.


Now I’ll tell you why I gave up on it as I was very happy with it but 
mine had this flaw and I don’t know if anyone had it.


Please note wrist to raise with voice over was off.  So think about 
this.  You do your normal duties be it round the house, at work or out and 
about.  Then suddenly this watch would start talking as if you had pressed it.  
Not just that, it would go in and out of apps as if you were touching it.  I 
had to tap it ten or 20 times to lock it before it stopped.  Some times when it 
was raining and my sleeve got wet and it would start talking, talking and 
talking!  So I’d have to power it off.  You don’t know how much it got on my 
nerves, I wanted to throw it somewhere for it to stop!  I thought the new 
update would sort it as I had reset it loads.  New update didn’t stop it.


You would have said call Apple but Apple would have said for me to 
reset and then I’d have to take a day off work just to sit at home to wait for 
a courier and I couldn’t do it at this time as my annual leave has almost 
expired!  So yesterday morning after another period of this watch doing its 
moving in to apps back and forth in and out, I got to the point, I would not 
tolerate this watch anymore.  So you see what a time I had with it.  Also, 
after the new update, when my work out ended, it would continue to count and 
count down and I had to power it off.  Then another day it would crash for a 
whole day and when it finally come back on, there would be no power left it 
died until it was charged!  So there is my story.  So now I wait for the next 
one and this time I’ll not get the sports as I am wondering because it was 
sports it did this thing that got on my nerves!  How I miss my time piece 
though.


Kawal. 

  On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:00, Alex Hall  wrote:


  I'm waiting until quarter 2 of 2016, when the second generation 
should arrive. I'd love to hear what you (the OP) disliked; all the better to 
make as informed a choice as I can when we see what the updated hardware has.

On Dec 10, 2015, at 15:59, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


I'm actually very very highly considerring getting one at the 
beginning of next year.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Donna Goodin
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:35 PM
  Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.


  I completely agree!  I'm still very happy with mine.  Do let us 
know, Kawal.
  Cheers,
  Donna

On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Daniel Miller 
 wrote:


That’s what I’d like to know as well. I absolutely love mine, 
and don’t notice any accessibility concerns at all.
Now do I wish the hardware could’ve been a little faster? Yes, 
but for a first-generation product that’s had 2 major updates since it’s 
launch, it’s quite remarkable.


  On Dec 10, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Scott Granados 
 wrote:


  Wow, I thought you liked the watch.  What did you find 
frustrating about it?


  I was going to get one but it sounds like a new one will be 
released early in 2016.




On Dec 9, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu 
 wrote:


I gave up on my Apple watch today as I was not happy with 
it.


I don’t think the latest update did it any favours!  So I 
gave it up and sold it.  Now I wait for the next generation and I hope it will 
be more functional than what it was as I’d like a little more independe

Re: Arrowing around the screen under El Capiten

[Mike Busboom]

Thanks for the responses.  I followed your instructions and it worked 
perfectly.  Thinking that this might be the solution for my friend, I called 
him and listened as he tried to achieve the same result.  No cigar!

I think that his Mac may be having some problems, because when he arrowed 
right, VO didn’t say a thing, though from time to time, it would say several 
letters with just one tap of the right-arrow key.  Perhaps someone at the Apple 
store can clean it for him.  I can’t think of anything else that would be 
causing this problem.

Mike

> On 11,Dec,2015, at 19:37, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> This should already work, no matter your OS version. Be sure Quick Nav is 
> off, or you might run into problems.
>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 13:33, Mike Busboom > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I am trying to help a blind friend who is using El Capiten.  He is a 
>> relatively new Mac user.  He told me that before upgrading to El Capiten, he 
>> could arrow or cursor around documents and e-mails a character at a time, 
>> just using the right and left arrow keys.  When I told him that he could 
>> easily do this using VO-Shift-left or right arrow, he didn’t dispute this, 
>> but he said that he preferred performing this function, just by using the 
>> right and left arrow keys.
>> 
>> When I tried just using these arrow keys, I was able to move through a 
>> document or e-mail, a word at a time, but not character-by-character.  Is 
>> there a way to get VO to announce the next or previous character, as opposed 
>> to the next or previous word, just by using the left and right arrow keys, 
>> when moving around in a document or e-mail?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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> mehg...@icloud.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Wake Screen Timer Bug, Revisited

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Hi guys,

If you upgraded to iOS 9.2, can you say whether that silly wake screen timer 
bug has been dealt with yet?  This is the bug where, once the screen wakes, it 
remains awake even though the device is not unlocked.  On my iPod Touch, the 
update seems to have done the ticket, but on my iPhone it does not.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Arrowing around the screen under El Capiten

[Alex Hall]

I'm assuming he's already turned VO off and back on, restarted the computer, 
and--just because--reset his VO preferences? Those are the three steps that 
come to mind, though the last one may be unnecessary and may not help. I've 
never had a problem like that, so never had to reset my preferences. I'm 
therefore not sure what it would or would not help to do so.
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 14:07, Mike Busboom  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks for the responses.  I followed your instructions and it worked 
> perfectly.  Thinking that this might be the solution for my friend, I called 
> him and listened as he tried to achieve the same result.  No cigar!
> 
> I think that his Mac may be having some problems, because when he arrowed 
> right, VO didn’t say a thing, though from time to time, it would say several 
> letters with just one tap of the right-arrow key.  Perhaps someone at the 
> Apple store can clean it for him.  I can’t think of anything else that would 
> be causing this problem.
> 
> Mike
> 
>> On 11,Dec,2015, at 19:37, Alex Hall > > wrote:
>> 
>> This should already work, no matter your OS version. Be sure Quick Nav is 
>> off, or you might run into problems.
>>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 13:33, Mike Busboom >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> I am trying to help a blind friend who is using El Capiten.  He is a 
>>> relatively new Mac user.  He told me that before upgrading to El Capiten, 
>>> he could arrow or cursor around documents and e-mails a character at a 
>>> time, just using the right and left arrow keys.  When I told him that he 
>>> could easily do this using VO-Shift-left or right arrow, he didn’t dispute 
>>> this, but he said that he preferred performing this function, just by using 
>>> the right and left arrow keys.
>>> 
>>> When I tried just using these arrow keys, I was able to move through a 
>>> document or e-mail, a word at a time, but not character-by-character.  Is 
>>> there a way to get VO to announce the next or previous character, as 
>>> opposed to the next or previous word, just by using the left and right 
>>> arrow keys, when moving around in a document or e-mail?
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: why 'clicking the X' doesn't close an app to VoiceOver?

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

The indicator light (a small dot) is on the dock item if OS X is told to show 
in in System Preferences.  It’s the default.  That’s the only way to know if 
the app is still open, unless you look carefully at the menu bar (which, in 
case you didn’t know, is shared between every app on the system and simply 
changes according to which app has focus).

In these enlightened times of sudden termination and iOS-like process and power 
management, it’s actually very rare indeed that one benefits from manually 
closing windows or quitting apps.  Normally, all the state is saved 
automatically, and there is even an option to reopen all the windows that were 
open when the app quit (not the default, but my preference).  Still, out of 
habit, I close windows and quit apps when I’ve finished with them.  Same for 
iOS.  A tidy process list reflects an ordered mind, and all that.

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Re: Problem with VoiceOver looping using Safari on el Capitan

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

The “Repeat until death” bug (that’s what I’m calling it, anyway) is, of 
course, also present in the official 10.11.2 build.

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Re: syncing music

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Briefly, you will need to make sure your music is in your iTunes library.  You 
can tell iTunes where your stuff is by pointing to it with File > Add To 
Library.  Depending on your settings, all your stuff gets copied into your 
iTunes “Media Folder”.  Once you are satisfied that all the data for your songs 
are correct, you can then connect your iPhone and set the options to sync 
music, and select either to sync all, or sync selectively.  Alternatively, 
don’t sync at all, but use iTunes Match; then you merely change your iTunes 
library to see it take effect on your iPhone.  Finally, it is possible to 
manually manage music and videos, and even to transfer files to your device 
through iTunes without adding it to the library first, but this is a bit 
trickier to do and has some shortcomings that, in my view, don’t make it 
worthwhile doing unless you primarily use another media player.

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Indenting Code

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Hi to those who code outside IDEs.

Apart from just using EmacsSpeak or braille, both of which I would find to be 
acceptable solutions BTW, does anybody have a strategy for getting VO to 
announce indentation of code?  The actual text editing isn’t the problem; just 
the indenting.  Some people in this world are determined to write Python, which 
means that this is sadly non-optional in some cases.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Partitions

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

As always, the remedy under El Cap for the moment is Terminal and the (quite 
straightforward) diskutil tool.

However, are you sure this actually requires partitions?  Is it not a feature 
of both CCC and SuperDuper that one can host the Backups.db directory and live 
filesystem on the same partition?  For other logistical reasons it may be 
unwise, but it should work.

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Seeking help with opening Safari iCloud tabs

[Brett C.]

I want to access tabs that are open on my iPhone with Safari on my Mac. In the 
toolbar I find the show all tabs button. Activating this button does indeed  
present a scroll area showing the tabs open on my phone. The problem is that I 
can’t activate the desired tab on my Mac. I’ve tried VO spacebar, VO mouse 
click and a physical mouse click on the trackpad after routing the mouse to the 
VO curser. I’ve  done this in the past, but can’t get it to work now. Is there 
a trick or is it broken?  Thank you.

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Re: el capitan upgrade pod cast

[ilovecountrymusic483]

Mike.

I am waiting on my disk maker to finish making the biotin lie sd card for my 
iMac man it takes a wile. I started the prodded at 2:30 and it is still coping 
installer files. Great podcast.

Matthew



Sent from my iPod

> On Dec 10, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone, for anyone who is interested, I didd a pod cast on how to 
> upgrade to El Capitan and hopefully avoid the issues that some users have 
> had, so far it's working well for me, here is the link.
> http://media.blubrry.com/blindgeekzone/p/www.blind-geek-zone.net/wp-content/uploads/gravity_forms/3-98839556b66feeea5fbbaaad6c392a4c/2015/12/el-capitan-upgrade.mp3
> 
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Re: Alex for the Mac and Correctness of Pronunciation

[Craig Werner]

Alex, you said something potentially helpful.  Referring to my
perceived mispronunciation of the end of "regards," you wrote: "my
brain hears what it expects at the end of 'regards'. "  It may well be
that I am not sufficiently tuned into Alex's accent to allow my brain
to make the proper closure.  Eloquence and the iOS voices I mention
have similar inflections and word spacings; in other words, despite
differences in voice quality, their rhythms sound to me quite similar.
Alex, on the other hand, often glides from word to word.  I'll give
myself more time with Alex and see how I manage.

I do know about the free downloadable Nuance voices for the Mac.  I
have downloaded Tom and Samantha and find them easier to comprehend
than Alex.  However, it seems to me that Alex's bandwidth is broader,
allowing for a more open, realistic sound as compared to the more
restricted, or pinched, tone of Samantha and Tom.  Tom speaks at a
slightly lower volume as well.  I hope I don't seem too compulsively
picky; I'm just making observations.

Craig

On 12/11/15, Alex Hall  wrote:
> Using Alex on 10.11.2 at 70%, I noticed no problems in your examples.
> However, my rate is fast enough that picking out a D sound versus a hard G
> sound at the end of a word is impossible; my brain hears what it expects at
> the end of 'regards'. In the first example, though, I heard 'department'
> quite clearly.
>
> Remember that Samantha, Daniel, and the rest of the gang are available on OS
> X if you'd rather use them. Just open the VO utility, go th the speech
> category and then the voices tab, choose 'customize' from the popup menu of
> voices, and choose the ones you want in the resulting table. Once they
> finish downloading, you'll have access to them.
>> On Dec 11, 2015, at 10:00, Craig Werner  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much to all who have responded to my request for help.
>>
>> Shaun and Alex, I typically run my Mac OS voices at around 50 percent.
>> Sometimes, the faults I perceive are accentuated if I run them at a
>> rate under 50%.
>>
>> Nicolai, here are a couple of examples which demonstrate the kind of
>> behavior to which I am referring.
>>
>> In the first example, note the pronunciation of the word "department."
>> It sounds to me as if the "e" is almost absent, and so is the final
>> "T."
>>
>> Example 1: I hope to see you at future department gatherings.
>>
>> In the second example, note the pronunciation of the word "regards."
>> It sounds to me as if the last two letters are "g s," not "d s."  I
>> have typed it twice on two lines to allow the example to be listened
>> to line by line.
>>
>> Example 2:
>> Regards,
>> Regards,
>>
>> A couple of things you should know about my listening habits: First, I
>> am a Windows refugee and have spent over twenty years listening to and
>> appreciating the Eloquence voice for its clear pronunciation but
>> admittedly not for its grace or beauty.  I have been listening to Alex
>> for about five months.  Second, I feel much more comfortable with
>> Samantha, Karen, and Daniel, all voices available on my iPhone 5,
>> which I have owned for about three years.
>>
>> Also, please remember that I am using OS X 10.10.5 and am wondering if
>> Alex sounds better with OS X 11.2.  I had a brief flirtation with El
>> Capitan before deciding, as a very new user, to roll back to Yosemite,
>> so I don't have enough recall of what Alex sounded like with the new
>> version to make a comparison.
>>
>> It appears that my concerns represent a minority viewpoint, but I'm
>> hoping something useful will come out of this thread anyway.  Again,
>> all comments welcome.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> n 12/10/15, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> I use Alex at 70% on iOS and OS X, and have rarely noticed a problem.
>>> Put
>>> another way, Alex has no more pronunciation oddities, to my ear, than do
>>> other popular voices. Often, he's easier to understand, and he seems to
>>> try
>>> less auto-expansion tricks than do Nuance voices, which is nice. He also
>>> does that cool thing with words surrounded by single quotes… Anyway, I'm
>>> just saying I haven't seen any problems with his speech, at least not
>>> that
>>> I've noticed.
 On Dec 10, 2015, at 18:35, Nicolai Svendsen 
 wrote:

 Hi!

 I'd also be very curious for a more specific example (a sentence where
 this occurs.)

 I do notice that sometimes, Alex does swallow words and almost mashes
 them
 together with others, making it hard to hear parts of the word, but
 Apple
 is usually good about addressing this. This happens so rarely and I
 have
 not seen this since OS X 10.11.2, even at speech rate at 100%.

 Nicolai
> On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:13 PM, Shawn Krasniuk 
> wrote:
>
> Hi. I don't notice any pronunciation issues with Alex. Just out of
> curiosity, what's the rate of your speech? I keep all my voices at a
> 35%
> speech rate because they sound the most natural 

Re: [Bulk] still no new message sound in Mail

[Craig Werner]

Thank you for your thoughtfulness, Katie, in reviving this thread.  I
don't know if this elusive bug, which seems only to have affected a
minority of users, ever made it to the top of Apple's bug list, but
I'm glad the bug has been squashed for you.

Craig

On 12/10/15, Katie Zodrow  wrote:
> Hi, everyone. I just installed the latest update for El Capitan. Good news,
> Apple fixed that bug in mail. I wasn’t getting any sound at all when new
> messages would arrive. Now, the new mail sound finally works with this
> update. Yay! Just wanted to let you guys know.
> Katie
>> On Oct 29, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Craig Werner  wrote:
>>
>> I was one of the first people to report this problem to the VoiceOver
>> community. All sound preferences were set properly, and no amount of mail
>> sound to tweaking restored the new mail sound. I reported the problem to
>> Apple and was told by a rep that he had run into the problem with some
>> users, but it is not on the list of El Capitan emerging issues. For this
>> and other reasons, I rolled back to Yosemite 10.10.5.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 29, 2015, george b > > wrote:
>> Tell me what to do to make a custom sound please
>> thanks
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of John
>> Panarese
>> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2015 13:57
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: [Bulk] [Bulk] [Bulk] still no new message sound in Mail
>>
>>Do you have a custom sound you can copy into your user library/sounds
>> folder?  If so, I would try using that one just to see if that works.
>>
>>
>> Take Care
>>
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
>>
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>>
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 29, 2015, at 12:33 PM, Katie Zodrow > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, John its Katie. I tried using the glass sound effect when I checked
>> > for new mail 2 days ago, and nothing happened. Then I went back to the
>> > new mail sound and when I check for new messages, I still don’t hear
>> > anything. I’m having  no luck at this. In mail preferences in the
>> > general tab, I have the checkbox checked for play sounds for other mail
>> > actions. In the notification center, I have alerts and sounds checked
>> > for the mail app. The notification center is something new I haven’t
>> > seen on my Mac before since I upgraded from Snow Leopard. I’m not sure
>> > why this isn’t working.
>> > Do you have any other ideas? Should I have someone at the Apple store
>> > look at my Mac again?
>> > Thanks.
>> > Katie
>> >> On Oct 26, 2015, at 4:58 PM, John Panarese > >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  I’d try the original new mail sound and see what happens. I am using
>> >> it now, though I do prefer my custom sound and will probably go back to
>> >> using it, since it was working.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Take Care
>> >>
>> >> John D. Panarese
>> >> Director
>> >> Mac for the Blind
>> >> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> >> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>> >> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> >>
>> >> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> >>
>> >> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Oct 26, 2015, at 7:07 PM, Katie Zodrow > >>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi, John. Normally I have the new message sound selected in Mail, but
>> >>> I changed the sound effect to glass instead. I checked the box after
>> >>> that when it said select ellipsis and closed out of mail preferences.
>> >>> I sent a test email to myself and thought the glass sound was going to
>> >>> work, but nothing happened when I got the email. Should I go back to
>> >>> the default mail sound or select a different sound?
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>> Katie
>>  On Oct 26, 2015, at 3:52 PM, John Panarese >  > wrote:
>> 
>>  Did you try messing with the popup menu for the new mail sound and
>>  try different options. I just changed mine back to the default sound
>>  and it is working. It was not working initially, which was why I was
>>  using a custom sound I put on the system. However, now it is
>>  working.
>> 
>> 
>>  Take Care
>> 
>>  John D. Panarese
>>  Director
>>  Mac for the Blind
>>  Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>  Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>>  Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>  
>> 
>>  APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>>  AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>>  MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Oct 26, 2015, at 6:3

Re: el capitan upgrade pod cast

[Mike Arrigo]

The problem with this approach is that each time an update is released, 
you have to recreate the install in order to keep it up to date. Using 
the recovery method, though it takes longer, always installs the newest 
operating system right away.

Original message:
You could always download El Capitan from the app store, then use 
createinstallmedia (in the resources folder) to create a USB installer. 
Then boot from that and install.



Bill

On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:



Nice work, Mike.


As you discovered, the Erase function of Disk Utility now allows you to 
choose the partition scheme.  The Partition function allows you to 
partition disks.


I love the idea of using the Recovery HD from a USB drive, and I’m glad 
to see that the Recovery Disk Assistant still works, but that’s still 
as many copies downloaded from the Interwebs as Macs to upgrade.  One 
of those Macs would have to be a cache to mitigate this.  For three 
Macs, you’d only have to download the operating system twice.


In case you missed it, the recovery image was itself updated; I hope 
you didn’t do a software update to find that there was a newer image 
available.  The update only applies a fixed recovery image, though, and 
it would be easy enough to recreate your drive.


As to the OS itself, even after 10.11.2, I’m still gritting my teeth a 
lot.  I love the hardware-software integration of OS X, but my finger 
is still on the Windows button.



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Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Well, I know who would want an Apple Watch. He would pay hundred pounds for it 
so, if you want to sell, let me know and I will put you in touch!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Dec 2015, at 9:30 am, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> My concerns are more for functionality than accessibility.  The truth is, it 
> had no place on my wrist while I was on holiday, despite the fact that, had I 
> wished to, I could have charged it.  Worse yet, it spends most of its time, 
> when it is on my wrist, at its lock screen, because the Wi-Fi chip just isn’t 
> very powerful and this makes it less useful as a remote and notification 
> disposer than I’d have liked.
> 
> So yes, it’s hard not to see why I shouldn’t sell mine, too.  I don’t like to 
> cast it off, as it’s a wonderful and beauteous thing when it works, but right 
> now it’s dead wood.
> 
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Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Chris,

I did not think that model was defective. I just thought that it was normal.

It didn't do it all the time, so, I just thought it was normal.

As I said, I have very few holidays left so, I don't always have the time to 
ring up companies and so want to get things sorted out

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Dec 2015, at 6:49 pm, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> And, you never thought about checking to see if you had a defected model 
> which could have been replaced?
>  
> Chris.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Kawal Gucukoglu
> To: Macvisionaries
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.
> 
> First day without the watch and I miss it, a time piece on my wrist.
> 
> Now I’ll tell you why I gave up on it as I was very happy with it but mine 
> had this flaw and I don’t know if anyone had it.
> 
> Please note wrist to raise with voice over was off.  So think about this.  
> You do your normal duties be it round the house, at work or out and about.  
> Then suddenly this watch would start talking as if you had pressed it.  Not 
> just that, it would go in and out of apps as if you were touching it.  I had 
> to tap it ten or 20 times to lock it before it stopped.  Some times when it 
> was raining and my sleeve got wet and it would start talking, talking and 
> talking!  So I’d have to power it off.  You don’t know how much it got on my 
> nerves, I wanted to throw it somewhere for it to stop!  I thought the new 
> update would sort it as I had reset it loads.  New update didn’t stop it.
> 
> You would have said call Apple but Apple would have said for me to reset and 
> then I’d have to take a day off work just to sit at home to wait for a 
> courier and I couldn’t do it at this time as my annual leave has almost 
> expired!  So yesterday morning after another period of this watch doing its 
> moving in to apps back and forth in and out, I got to the point, I would not 
> tolerate this watch anymore.  So you see what a time I had with it.  Also, 
> after the new update, when my work out ended, it would continue to count and 
> count down and I had to power it off.  Then another day it would crash for a 
> whole day and when it finally come back on, there would be no power left it 
> died until it was charged!  So there is my story.  So now I wait for the next 
> one and this time I’ll not get the sports as I am wondering because it was 
> sports it did this thing that got on my nerves!  How I miss my time piece 
> though.
> 
> Kawal. 
>> On 10 Dec 2015, at 22:00, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm waiting until quarter 2 of 2016, when the second generation should 
>> arrive. I'd love to hear what you (the OP) disliked; all the better to make 
>> as informed a choice as I can when we see what the updated hardware has.
>>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 15:59, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm actually very very highly considerring getting one at the beginning of 
>>> next year.
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
 - Original Message -
 From: Donna Goodin
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 12:35 PM
 Subject: Re: I gave up on my Apple watch.
 
 I completely agree!  I'm still very happy with mine.  Do let us know, 
 Kawal.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Dec 10, 2015, at 11:30 AM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> That’s what I’d like to know as well. I absolutely love mine, and don’t 
> notice any accessibility concerns at all.
> Now do I wish the hardware could’ve been a little faster? Yes, but for a 
> first-generation product that’s had 2 major updates since it’s launch, 
> it’s quite remarkable.
> 
>> On Dec 10, 2015, at 7:24 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow, I thought you liked the watch.  What did you find frustrating about 
>> it?
>> 
>> I was going to get one but it sounds like a new one will be released 
>> early in 2016.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 9, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I gave up on my Apple watch today as I was not happy with it.
>>> 
>>> I don’t think the latest update did it any favours!  So I gave it up 
>>> and sold it.  Now I wait for the next generation and I hope it will be 
>>> more functional than what it was as I’d like a little more independence 
>>> from the phone!
>>> I'm fundraising for RNIB.
>>> 
>>> Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin 
>>> Money Giving page. 
>>> 
>>> To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
>>> http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can also 
>>> sponsor me online.
>>> 
>>> 
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>>>  
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>>> or if you feel that a member'

Re: Indenting Code

[Bill Dengler]

I program mostly in Python, so yes, for me this is non-optional.
I found an applescript to check the indentation of a line. Unfortunately, it 
has to be invoked through keyboard commander.
The page about the script is in Spanish, if you don’t speak Spanish just find 
the link labeled “script de verificación del nivel de indentación” to download 
the script.
http://www.programaraciegas.net/?p=166

Bill
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi to those who code outside IDEs.
> 
> Apart from just using EmacsSpeak or braille, both of which I would find to be 
> acceptable solutions BTW, does anybody have a strategy for getting VO to 
> announce indentation of code?  The actual text editing isn’t the problem; 
> just the indenting.  Some people in this world are determined to write 
> Python, which means that this is sadly non-optional in some cases.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
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Re: Alex for the Mac and Correctness of Pronunciation

[Blee Blat]

Yeah, Alex voice does have rhythm and pronunciation inconsistencies but I 
notice different ones with different voices and still find all these voices too 
human sounding and a little bit too slow for my taste. But they're not going to 
get a DoubleTalk LT style voice for OS X and iOS  any time soon so it's a good 
thing I have braille as well.

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Download Progress

[E.T.]

   When downloading large files from the app store, how does one get 
the progress update? I find the button on the toolbar but it tells me 
nothing.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Re: Download Progress

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I second this question.  I find trying to find an item with the percentage 
to be very! and I do mean, very! unreliable.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "E.T." 

To: "MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 6:25 PM
Subject: Download Progress


   When downloading large files from the app store, how does one get the 
progress update? I find the button on the toolbar but it tells me nothing.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Airdrop from Mac to Ios Device

[Lee Jones]

Dear List, I want to airdrop a file from my mac to an Ios device. I can see my 
mac as an airdrop recipient under share on my phone, but when I open the 
airdrop folder in finder it just gives me a grid with my name in it, and no 
phone.  Could some kind soul run me through the steps when airdropping from mac 
to Ios.  I am running latest elcapitan and Ios 9.

Many Thanks, Lee 

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Re: Indenting Code

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Thanks!  Yes, I’m usually careful, but this should be useful.

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Re: Download Progress

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

It starts with the fact that there’s no indication at all of the size of the 
download before you download; the only way you know is once you have started.  
Then you find the information you’re looking for in the Purchases tab, or on 
the Dock item of the Launchpad app if that is on your dock (it’s not on mine).

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Re: Download Progress

[E.T.]

   Interesting. Well what I am trying to do is download the latest El 
Cap and make the bootable thumb drive with it. I downloaded the 11.1 
version but now I cannot seem to get the 11.2 version.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 12/11/2015 4:48 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:

It starts with the fact that there’s no indication at all of the size of the 
download before you download; the only way you know is once you have started.  
Then you find the information you’re looking for in the Purchases tab, or on 
the Dock item of the Launchpad app if that is on your dock (it’s not on mine).



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Re: renaming a table in numbers?

[erik burggraaf]

Nice,  I found it via the lovely google, copied it to my scripts folder, set 
option R to run the script with keyboard commander, and it works like crazy.

Thank you for the tip.


Erik Burggraaf


> On Dec 9, 2015, at 6:06 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> Eric, there is an apple script for this purpose that was developed by someone 
> here on the list. Basically, it involves installing the script in a certain 
> folder, and then turning AppleScript on in the extras menu through I believe 
> the Script editor app. Then when in numbers and focused on the table that you 
> want to rename, you invoke the script from the extras menu. There in the 
> script, you simply type in the new name and hit enter and voilà your table is 
> renamed.
> Before the script, there was a convoluted method of clicking the mouse and 
> using the mouse keys to move a set number of pixels at Cetera. It worked but 
> it was very tedious and very hit or mess. Somebody has that script here on 
> the list and I'm sure they'd be glad to ship it over to you via email. I may 
> even have it myself and I'll try to get around to finding it when I can.
> In the meantime, you could try googling for "AppleScript for renaming tables 
> in numbers". And see what you come up with.
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
> On Dec 9, 2015, at 8:04 PM, erik burggraaf  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,  In numbers 3.6 I am trying to rename a table.  I can't find an edit box 
>> to type a table name as there was in numbers 2.3.  A google search turned up 
>> this.
>> http://help.apple.com/numbers/mac/3.2/#/tandfc7ebc28 
>> 
>> 
>> Not very helpful.
>> 
>> How can I rename a table in numbers with voiceover?
>> 
>> 
>> Erik Burggraaf
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Help.i think i did something to my mac hd.

[Matthew Dyer]

Hi all.

Today i tried to do aclean install of el capitan and after eracing the 
drive, i was unable to do so. I was was  told that could not unmount disk i 
was able to format the macintosh hd partition oddly enough.  The partition 
was only 2.67 gb or something around there.


Any idea on what i might have done andhow to fix this before taking it 
tothe apple store.  Thanks.


Matthew


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