how to open an ibook on the mac?

[Anouk Radix]

Hi everyone,
I installed el capitain a few days ago. I have not used ibooks on the mac for a 
while. I have a lot of books so i hide the ones not downloaded on my mac.
I can delete a book but somehow cant seem to open one now on the mac. I 
interact with the bookshelf table and are on the title column but if i try to 
cmd+o on the book it wont open. Also vo+space does not work.
What am i doing wrong?
Thanks in advance for any info,
Greetings, Anouk,

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Re: Making a bulleted list in the newly updated notes app on an eye device

[Alex Hall]

That makes a checklist, but if you want a bulleted list, find the Style button 
instead. That will pop up a list of options, among them different list options. 
Select the one you want,then use the same procedure to disable the list style 
when you're done. You could also make your list, select it, then choose a style 
and turn your text into a bulleted list.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 23:32, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Yes it is possible. I have done so on my iPhone. I have not yet done so on my 
> iPad. On the iPhone, double-tap on the show toolbar and then double-tap on 
> create checklist. I suspect the procedure is similar, if not identical, on 
> the iPad.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 5 Oct 2015, at 15:46, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> For those of you on more than one list to which this is being sent, I do 
>> apologize for the cross posting. However, since this newly updated notes app 
>> is so new, I did want to get the input from all possible people who might 
>> actually have done this. Is it possible to make a bulleted list in the notes 
>> app on your iPad? If so how?
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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RE: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[george b]

Hay maybe because you use the g d word and other unneeded phrases God desided 
to punish you and make you go through all this…LOL

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 04:47
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

 

Well, this definitely has proven to be quite a nightmare!

 

I finally! managed to get Yosemite reinstalling to a freshly 
partitioned/formatted internal drive.  I'm really crossing my fingers here!

 

Chris.

 

- Original Message - 

From: Devin Prater   

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com   

Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 7:21 AM

Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

 

Yep, I've seen the busy thing. Also, when I first start up the computer, things 
are pretty slow at first, like voiceover actually sees the Google Drive and 
dropbox windows, which have no content, as they launch. Alex, and the premium 
high, or enhanced, vocalizer voices are sluggish, very sluggish, even after an 
update. Alex is choppy, still. Voiceover still doesn't speak every element, 
like its how it used to cut itself off, but now it doesn't even speak that 
element at all, so I have to do voiceover left and right again to hear it, this 
is most often in webpages. I don't know, maybe I'll just spend more time in my 
vm of XP.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 3, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> > wrote:

OK.  Let me start by saying one positive thing.

 

El Capitan looks like it has the potential to be a great OS.  This being said, 
I'm at a position where even on my personal computers, not just on my work 
audio production machine, I have made the decision to go back to Yosemite, and 
not touch El Capitan with a 10 foot poll until some of these issues I'm having 
are worked out.  Below are all the things so far I've observed.  Again, realize 
that I am not complaining.  Over time, I'm sure a lot of this will get fixed, 
but at least for the time being, this is ridiculous!

 


Busy Busy Busy!


 

This is the main bug which has caused me to say screw it!  I'm going back.  No 
matter what voice I use, be it Alex, any of the Nuance voices, Any of the 
Acapela TTS voices, whatever, practically every single app I have tried is 
almost constantly reporting busy busy busy.  Finally when the app does! switch 
to ready status, it only stays there for a fraction of a second, then goes busy 
again.

 


Can't Edit nor backspace text in Mail


 

This one's really aggervating.  When typing an e-mail message, be it a reply, a 
forward, or just totally from scratch, I can edit/backspace text up to a 
certain point which I've not totally benchmarked, but after a certain point, 
pressing the backspace key, or trying to move around and edit my message 
doesn't work.  Apparently, it works, but Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  
When I try backspacing characters, Voiceover is totally silent.

 


Message List Table in Mail is slightly Broken


 

I should start this one by saying that I'm using the classic view of Mail.  I'm 
not sure if that matters, but i somehow doubt it does.  It used to be that I 
could vo+right arrow to the messages group and interact with it.  Then, I could 
vo+right arrow to the message list table.  Then, without interacting at all, I 
could simply down arrow through the list of messages.  Not VO+Down arrow.  I'm 
literally saying just down arrow.  The advantage of doing it this way was that 
I wasn't interacting with the table, thereby making it where virtically, it 
would only read one column at a time.  This way each row would read all columns 
at once.  So right away, I knew who the message was from, the subject, etc.  
Now, if I try doing this, just by down arrowing when I reach the table, 
Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  When I press return on a message, it's not 
throwing me to the content of the message.  It's very inconsistent, so I can't 
really tell you where it lands, as it seems to be kind a scatterbrained.  Once 
I do! however get on the area with the message content, regardless if I 
interact with the text field and use vo+up and down arrow to read, or if I 
don't interact at all, but just up and down arrow to read, Mail usually goes 
completely busy and by busy, I don't mean Voiceover saying busy.  I mean it 
goes so busy to the point where literally nothing! speaks.  Trying to 
command+tab out of the Mail app sometimes works, but usually Voiceover lags for 
a good 30 seconds to a full minute before catching up.  When it does! catch 
back up I notice in the Mail app that I no longer have focus on the message 
content, as it's jumped to some other random place like the message headers, 
etc.  Yes, to rimity these issues, I did try restarting Voiceover, and yes, 
I've also fully tried rebooting.

 


ITunes 12.3, and I

Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Scott Granados]

Yes that’s right because the invisible man in the sky micro manages things to 
that degree he cares what anyone says and gets revenge by screwing their 
computer.

Good one George.:)

I’m glad I smartened up and didn’t buy in to the nonsense that is religion.  
Such a waste of resources, lives and talent.



> On Oct 5, 2015, at 8:21 AM, george b  wrote:
> 
> Hay maybe because you use the g d word and other unneeded phrases God desided 
> to punish you and make you go through all this…LOL
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 04:47
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan
>  
> Well, this definitely has proven to be quite a nightmare!
>  
> I finally! managed to get Yosemite reinstalling to a freshly 
> partitioned/formatted internal drive.  I'm really crossing my fingers here!
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Devin Prater 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 7:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan
>>  
>> Yep, I've seen the busy thing. Also, when I first start up the computer, 
>> things are pretty slow at first, like voiceover actually sees the Google 
>> Drive and dropbox windows, which have no content, as they launch. Alex, and 
>> the premium high, or enhanced, vocalizer voices are sluggish, very sluggish, 
>> even after an update. Alex is choppy, still. Voiceover still doesn't speak 
>> every element, like its how it used to cut itself off, but now it doesn't 
>> even speak that element at all, so I have to do voiceover left and right 
>> again to hear it, this is most often in webpages. I don't know, maybe I'll 
>> just spend more time in my vm of XP.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland > > wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  Let me start by saying one positive thing.
>>>  
>>> El Capitan looks like it has the potential to be a great OS.  This being 
>>> said, I'm at a position where even on my personal computers, not just on my 
>>> work audio production machine, I have made the decision to go back to 
>>> Yosemite, and not touch El Capitan with a 10 foot poll until some of these 
>>> issues I'm having are worked out.  Below are all the things so far I've 
>>> observed.  Again, realize that I am not complaining.  Over time, I'm sure a 
>>> lot of this will get fixed, but at least for the time being, this is 
>>> ridiculous!
>>>  
>>> Busy Busy Busy!
>>> 
>>>  
>>> This is the main bug which has caused me to say screw it!  I'm going back.  
>>> No matter what voice I use, be it Alex, any of the Nuance voices, Any of 
>>> the Acapela TTS voices, whatever, practically every single app I have tried 
>>> is almost constantly reporting busy busy busy.  Finally when the app does! 
>>> switch to ready status, it only stays there for a fraction of a second, 
>>> then goes busy again.
>>>  
>>> Can't Edit nor backspace text in Mail
>>> 
>>>  
>>> This one's really aggervating.  When typing an e-mail message, be it a 
>>> reply, a forward, or just totally from scratch, I can edit/backspace text 
>>> up to a certain point which I've not totally benchmarked, but after a 
>>> certain point, pressing the backspace key, or trying to move around and 
>>> edit my message doesn't work.  Apparently, it works, but Voiceover says 
>>> absolutely nothing.  When I try backspacing characters, Voiceover is 
>>> totally silent.
>>>  
>>> Message List Table in Mail is slightly Broken
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I should start this one by saying that I'm using the classic view of Mail.  
>>> I'm not sure if that matters, but i somehow doubt it does.  It used to be 
>>> that I could vo+right arrow to the messages group and interact with it.  
>>> Then, I could vo+right arrow to the message list table.  Then, without 
>>> interacting at all, I could simply down arrow through the list of messages. 
>>>  Not VO+Down arrow.  I'm literally saying just down arrow.  The advantage 
>>> of doing it this way was that I wasn't interacting with the table, thereby 
>>> making it where virtically, it would only read one column at a time.  This 
>>> way each row would read all columns at once.  So right away, I knew who the 
>>> message was from, the subject, etc.  Now, if I try doing this, just by down 
>>> arrowing when I reach the table, Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  When I 
>>> press return on a message, it's not throwing me to the content of the 
>>> message.  It's very inconsistent, so I can't really tell you where it 
>>> lands, as it seems to be kind a scatterbrained.  Once I do! however get on 
>>> the area with the message content, regardless if I interact with the text 
>>> field and use vo+up and down arrow to read, or if I don't interact at all, 
>>> but just up and down ar

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

This is a well presented message and reflects a lot of my feeling as well.  I 
do not have the driver problems you have, I’m using a Focus 40 Blue but the 
cursor routing is a real problem.  I find the key assignment features difficult 
to master, things are really inconsistent like I could map space w to close a 
window for example but it won’t work in mail yet it will in Text edit etc, 
mapping across applications is not consistent for me.  Absolutely agree on the 
status cells and I disabled them as well on my 40 cell display.


> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I have  a display but I may be hitting different bugs than others so I 
> wouldn't mind a list either. I have noticed that cursor routing is useless 
> because there is no separate braille cursor or braille doesn't follow the 
> system cursor it just moves the voiceover cursor which isn't what should 
> happen. There's no way to tell if text is selected easily since dots 7 and 8 
> are used for the voiceover cursor as well as the highlighting of text. I 
> don't understand what to do with these silly status cells at all. I turn them 
> off on OS X and iOS because I don't understand how their information is at 
> all useful especially on a small 18-cell display.
> Braille input is also equally useless on iOS and OS X because I braille too 
> quickly and the driver appears to hang. I should also point out that I 
> frequently work with autocorrect and dictation turned off because I still get 
> input lag typing on qwerty as well but the braille translator makes input lag 
> a lot.
> I'd sell this braille display to someone if I could find one for a reasonable 
> price that I could put under the laptop or keyborad since I don't like the 
> braille input function at all because it doesn't work at all in a useful way.
> Also USB serial support is broken in OS X so that you cannot use your 
> braillle display in USB mode  at least not with Refreshabraille even though 
> the documentation claims it works. Bluetooth frequently drops on both iOS and 
> OS X  especially after sleep / wake so often the braille display will not 
> connect at all and I have to revert to speech. Braille also doesn't work 
> until after the user is logged in, nor does it work in recovery mode. There 
> is no braille for emoji either.
> Some of this is probably user error because OS X and iOS  probably handle 
> braille differently than BRLTTY which is what I used to use. I moved to OS X 
> to avoid Windows because I generally prefer UNIX shells and things and I 
> thought maybe Apple had better accessibility when I played with it and in 
> general I'm not unhappy with that decision. But it seems to me that the 
> computer industry in general is releasing poorly written software for all 
> users and so I'm thinking every OS is badly written and buggy so I'm giving 
> Apple a pass on that one. It seems people want things in this world that give 
> the delusion of working but don't actually work and that is ok if that's what 
> people want. So I expect it to be horribly broken because that's what sells 
> and I'm surprised that in general Apple tends to be less horribly broken than 
> other companies but I am sure it's a design decision since the focus seems to 
> be on data mining and tracking and accessibility just doesn't help them 
> collect data or advertise so it means nothing. And braille is the bottom of 
> the stack when it comes to that.
> I wrote Apple Accessibility telling them that I've got a lot of time and I 
> could learn their architecture and help with braille testing but I got a form 
> letter saying that they'd look into the bugs I reported so I left it at that. 
> But I would like to know how to get the most out of braille on either the 
> phone or the mac because I prefer not to use speech  since it gets in the way 
> of my creative process,  especially thanks to Apple Music  and several 
> meditation apps being available   on all devices. Don't take any of this as 
> criticism or negativity I'm willing to help but I don't know what's 
> constructive.  I'm also betting that maybe I haven't explored something or 
> don't fully understand some features so I'd be willing to take this off list  
> for extended conversation if someone wants  we could talk about how to get 
> this stuff constructively fixed. I think Apple is trying to do the right 
> thing I'm just not sure how we can help them.
> Yes it's a small user group but it might get larger very quickly if somehow 
> we had easily accessible built-in working braille support to point people at. 
> Sorry if this is a bit long I have only given the most  severe bugs I've 
> noticed. There's probably more I'm sure but I'm assuming the ones I 
> encountered were user error mostly but someone make a list of bugs and we can 
> hack this out. Thanks for reading and have fun times. I'll go away now unless 
> there's a reply.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the G

Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[Scott Granados]

How are we liking Watch OS 2.0?

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> You’re welcome. The crown is definitely more useful for VoiceOver users on 
> watchOS 2 than it was in 1.0.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey, that's cool! Clearly I need to start paying more attention to the crown 
>> then I do. Thanks, Daniel.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Dona,
>>> 
>>> If you turn the pro it will scroll the screen, enabling you to see that 
>>> info. I just tried it and it works perfectly in watchOS 2.0.
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 So do you still get the breakdown on the front page?  I used to be able to 
 see calories burned, number of active minutes, and number of steps all by 
 doing a double tap on the home screen.  Now more often than not, I do not 
 get that information on the first page.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:02 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
> If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
> review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change 
> the page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details 
> for each category, but it still works here.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity 
>> set to one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 
>> 2.0, if I tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that 
>> displayed a bunch of info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, 
>> miles, etc.  since 2.0, I am not able to bring that page up 
>> consistently.  Often I get just the abbreviated page, with the moving, 
>> exercising, standing info and then the page scrollbar. At this point I'm 
>> perplexed as to whether this is a bug, or whether it has something to do 
>> with force touch.  I seem to have to try to open the page about three 
>> times before I finally get it to show.  Sometimes it seems like holding 
>> my finger down helps, but other times that seems to just bring up the 
>> watch face selection page.  Has anyone else noticed this?  Has anyone 
>> figured out how to view the activity page consistently?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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> 
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>>> 
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RE: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[george b]

I really like it!  along with apple maps it is amazing and very much more 
accurate then 8. And watch 1.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 05:52
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

How are we liking Watch OS 2.0?

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> You’re welcome. The crown is definitely more useful for VoiceOver users on 
> watchOS 2 than it was in 1.0.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey, that's cool! Clearly I need to start paying more attention to the crown 
>> then I do. Thanks, Daniel.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Dona,
>>> 
>>> If you turn the pro it will scroll the screen, enabling you to see that 
>>> info. I just tried it and it works perfectly in watchOS 2.0.
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 So do you still get the breakdown on the front page?  I used to be able to 
 see calories burned, number of active minutes, and number of steps all by 
 doing a double tap on the home screen.  Now more often than not, I do not 
 get that information on the first page.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:02 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
> If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
> review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change 
> the page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details 
> for each category, but it still works here.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity 
>> set to one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 
>> 2.0, if I tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that 
>> displayed a bunch of info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, 
>> miles, etc.  since 2.0, I am not able to bring that page up 
>> consistently.  Often I get just the abbreviated page, with the moving, 
>> exercising, standing info and then the page scrollbar. At this point I'm 
>> perplexed as to whether this is a bug, or whether it has something to do 
>> with force touch.  I seem to have to try to open the page about three 
>> times before I finally get it to show.  Sometimes it seems like holding 
>> my finger down helps, but other times that seems to just bring up the 
>> watch face selection page.  Has anyone else noticed this?  Has anyone 
>> figured out how to view the activity page consistently?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

I think the whole misspelled thing in the status bar could be fixed with dots 7 
or 8 showing under the word. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> This is a well presented message and reflects a lot of my feeling as well.  I 
> do not have the driver problems you have, I’m using a Focus 40 Blue but the 
> cursor routing is a real problem.  I find the key assignment features 
> difficult to master, things are really inconsistent like I could map space w 
> to close a window for example but it won’t work in mail yet it will in Text 
> edit etc, mapping across applications is not consistent for me.  Absolutely 
> agree on the status cells and I disabled them as well on my 40 cell display.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
>> 
>> I have  a display but I may be hitting different bugs than others so I 
>> wouldn't mind a list either. I have noticed that cursor routing is useless 
>> because there is no separate braille cursor or braille doesn't follow the 
>> system cursor it just moves the voiceover cursor which isn't what should 
>> happen. There's no way to tell if text is selected easily since dots 7 and 8 
>> are used for the voiceover cursor as well as the highlighting of text. I 
>> don't understand what to do with these silly status cells at all. I turn 
>> them off on OS X and iOS because I don't understand how their information is 
>> at all useful especially on a small 18-cell display.
>> Braille input is also equally useless on iOS and OS X because I braille too 
>> quickly and the driver appears to hang. I should also point out that I 
>> frequently work with autocorrect and dictation turned off because I still 
>> get input lag typing on qwerty as well but the braille translator makes 
>> input lag a lot.
>> I'd sell this braille display to someone if I could find one for a 
>> reasonable price that I could put under the laptop or keyborad since I don't 
>> like the braille input function at all because it doesn't work at all in a 
>> useful way.
>> Also USB serial support is broken in OS X so that you cannot use your 
>> braillle display in USB mode  at least not with Refreshabraille even though 
>> the documentation claims it works. Bluetooth frequently drops on both iOS 
>> and OS X  especially after sleep / wake so often the braille display will 
>> not connect at all and I have to revert to speech. Braille also doesn't work 
>> until after the user is logged in, nor does it work in recovery mode. There 
>> is no braille for emoji either.
>> Some of this is probably user error because OS X and iOS  probably handle 
>> braille differently than BRLTTY which is what I used to use. I moved to OS X 
>> to avoid Windows because I generally prefer UNIX shells and things and I 
>> thought maybe Apple had better accessibility when I played with it and in 
>> general I'm not unhappy with that decision. But it seems to me that the 
>> computer industry in general is releasing poorly written software for all 
>> users and so I'm thinking every OS is badly written and buggy so I'm giving 
>> Apple a pass on that one. It seems people want things in this world that 
>> give the delusion of working but don't actually work and that is ok if 
>> that's what people want. So I expect it to be horribly broken because that's 
>> what sells and I'm surprised that in general Apple tends to be less horribly 
>> broken than other companies but I am sure it's a design decision since the 
>> focus seems to be on data mining and tracking and accessibility just doesn't 
>> help them collect data or advertise so it means nothing. And braille is the 
>> bottom of the stack when it comes to that.
>> I wrote Apple Accessibility telling them that I've got a lot of time and I 
>> could learn their architecture and help with braille testing but I got a 
>> form letter saying that they'd look into the bugs I reported so I left it at 
>> that. But I would like to know how to get the most out of braille on either 
>> the phone or the mac because I prefer not to use speech  since it gets in 
>> the way of my creative process,  especially thanks to Apple Music  and 
>> several meditation apps being available   on all devices. Don't take any of 
>> this as criticism or negativity I'm willing to help but I don't know what's 
>> constructive.  I'm also betting that maybe I haven't explored something or 
>> don't fully understand some features so I'd be willing to take this off list 
>>  for extended conversation if someone wants  we could talk about how to get 
>> this stuff constructively fixed. I think Apple is trying to do the right 
>> thing I'm just not sure how we can help them.
>> Yes it's a small user group but it might get larger very quickly if somehow 
>> we had easily accessible built-in working braille support to point people 
>> at. Sorry if this is a bit long I have only given the most  severe bugs I've 
>> noticed. There's probably more I'm sure but I'm assum

ChronoSync and voiceover

[Emilio Hernandez]

Hello everyone,

I am just curious to know if anyone has had success using ChronoSync with 
voiceover? In particular when syncing a NAS and backing up to a hard drive?
I am interested to know of others’ experiences because this seems like the 
alternative I have been searching for that allow me to back-up my NAS elsewhere.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

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Re: ChronoSync and voiceover

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

What is ChronoSync?  I have never heard of it.

Chris.

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 9:09 AM, Emilio Hernandez  
> wrote:
> 
> ChronoSync

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Blee Blat]

Yeah, I can't test the misspelled thing because I turn autocorrect and 
predictive off on everything. And yet still some applications try to correct 
things or tell me about misspelled words but that's another thread.

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Blee Blat]

Thanks, I tried to word it reasonably well, and I'm glad at least some others 
are having the same issues. I guess all we can do is send feedback and maybe 
they'll pay attention.

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

Also, the italics and such in webpages still don't show the braille signs for 
it. Formatting just isn't so good in braille. Still is for both the Mac and 
iOS. 

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

Perhaps we could get with Applevis and write an open letter to Apple about 
braille. Not just for the Mac, but for the phone too, as there are some huge 
annoyances there too. The open letter seemed to help with xCode so maybe 
braille can get it next. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> This is a well presented message and reflects a lot of my feeling as well.  I 
> do not have the driver problems you have, I’m using a Focus 40 Blue but the 
> cursor routing is a real problem.  I find the key assignment features 
> difficult to master, things are really inconsistent like I could map space w 
> to close a window for example but it won’t work in mail yet it will in Text 
> edit etc, mapping across applications is not consistent for me.  Absolutely 
> agree on the status cells and I disabled them as well on my 40 cell display.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
>> 
>> I have  a display but I may be hitting different bugs than others so I 
>> wouldn't mind a list either. I have noticed that cursor routing is useless 
>> because there is no separate braille cursor or braille doesn't follow the 
>> system cursor it just moves the voiceover cursor which isn't what should 
>> happen. There's no way to tell if text is selected easily since dots 7 and 8 
>> are used for the voiceover cursor as well as the highlighting of text. I 
>> don't understand what to do with these silly status cells at all. I turn 
>> them off on OS X and iOS because I don't understand how their information is 
>> at all useful especially on a small 18-cell display.
>> Braille input is also equally useless on iOS and OS X because I braille too 
>> quickly and the driver appears to hang. I should also point out that I 
>> frequently work with autocorrect and dictation turned off because I still 
>> get input lag typing on qwerty as well but the braille translator makes 
>> input lag a lot.
>> I'd sell this braille display to someone if I could find one for a 
>> reasonable price that I could put under the laptop or keyborad since I don't 
>> like the braille input function at all because it doesn't work at all in a 
>> useful way.
>> Also USB serial support is broken in OS X so that you cannot use your 
>> braillle display in USB mode  at least not with Refreshabraille even though 
>> the documentation claims it works. Bluetooth frequently drops on both iOS 
>> and OS X  especially after sleep / wake so often the braille display will 
>> not connect at all and I have to revert to speech. Braille also doesn't work 
>> until after the user is logged in, nor does it work in recovery mode. There 
>> is no braille for emoji either.
>> Some of this is probably user error because OS X and iOS  probably handle 
>> braille differently than BRLTTY which is what I used to use. I moved to OS X 
>> to avoid Windows because I generally prefer UNIX shells and things and I 
>> thought maybe Apple had better accessibility when I played with it and in 
>> general I'm not unhappy with that decision. But it seems to me that the 
>> computer industry in general is releasing poorly written software for all 
>> users and so I'm thinking every OS is badly written and buggy so I'm giving 
>> Apple a pass on that one. It seems people want things in this world that 
>> give the delusion of working but don't actually work and that is ok if 
>> that's what people want. So I expect it to be horribly broken because that's 
>> what sells and I'm surprised that in general Apple tends to be less horribly 
>> broken than other companies but I am sure it's a design decision since the 
>> focus seems to be on data mining and tracking and accessibility just doesn't 
>> help them collect data or advertise so it means nothing. And braille is the 
>> bottom of the stack when it comes to that.
>> I wrote Apple Accessibility telling them that I've got a lot of time and I 
>> could learn their architecture and help with braille testing but I got a 
>> form letter saying that they'd look into the bugs I reported so I left it at 
>> that. But I would like to know how to get the most out of braille on either 
>> the phone or the mac because I prefer not to use speech  since it gets in 
>> the way of my creative process,  especially thanks to Apple Music  and 
>> several meditation apps being available   on all devices. Don't take any of 
>> this as criticism or negativity I'm willing to help but I don't know what's 
>> constructive.  I'm also betting that maybe I haven't explored something or 
>> don't fully understand some features so I'd be willing to take this off list 
>>  for extended conversation if someone wants  we could talk about how to get 
>> this stuff constructively fixed. I think Apple is trying to do the right 
>> thing I'm just not sure how we can help them.
>> Yes it's a small user group but it might get larger very quickly if somehow 
>> we had easily accessible built-in working braille support to point pe

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Alex Hall]

Just for the record, I'm not sure how much my letter did for Xcode. Apple had 
been steadily improving Xcode accessibility for years, just not at a pace I'd 
like, and version 7 still doesn't address many of my concerns. The processes 
are easier and more reliable, certainly, but VO users still follow some 
alternative procedures, and some parts are still unlabeled/not intuitive to 
use. I have to wonder if the improvements we got in 7 were more coincidental 
than the result of anything I wrote.

As to an open letter for braille support, I'd suggest using the AppleVis 
contact form to put the idea forward.
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 09:48, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps we could get with Applevis and write an open letter to Apple about 
> braille. Not just for the Mac, but for the phone too, as there are some huge 
> annoyances there too. The open letter seemed to help with xCode so maybe 
> braille can get it next. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a well presented message and reflects a lot of my feeling as well.  
>> I do not have the driver problems you have, I’m using a Focus 40 Blue but 
>> the cursor routing is a real problem.  I find the key assignment features 
>> difficult to master, things are really inconsistent like I could map space w 
>> to close a window for example but it won’t work in mail yet it will in Text 
>> edit etc, mapping across applications is not consistent for me.  Absolutely 
>> agree on the status cells and I disabled them as well on my 40 cell display.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have  a display but I may be hitting different bugs than others so I 
>>> wouldn't mind a list either. I have noticed that cursor routing is useless 
>>> because there is no separate braille cursor or braille doesn't follow the 
>>> system cursor it just moves the voiceover cursor which isn't what should 
>>> happen. There's no way to tell if text is selected easily since dots 7 and 
>>> 8 are used for the voiceover cursor as well as the highlighting of text. I 
>>> don't understand what to do with these silly status cells at all. I turn 
>>> them off on OS X and iOS because I don't understand how their information 
>>> is at all useful especially on a small 18-cell display.
>>> Braille input is also equally useless on iOS and OS X because I braille too 
>>> quickly and the driver appears to hang. I should also point out that I 
>>> frequently work with autocorrect and dictation turned off because I still 
>>> get input lag typing on qwerty as well but the braille translator makes 
>>> input lag a lot.
>>> I'd sell this braille display to someone if I could find one for a 
>>> reasonable price that I could put under the laptop or keyborad since I 
>>> don't like the braille input function at all because it doesn't work at all 
>>> in a useful way.
>>> Also USB serial support is broken in OS X so that you cannot use your 
>>> braillle display in USB mode  at least not with Refreshabraille even though 
>>> the documentation claims it works. Bluetooth frequently drops on both iOS 
>>> and OS X  especially after sleep / wake so often the braille display will 
>>> not connect at all and I have to revert to speech. Braille also doesn't 
>>> work until after the user is logged in, nor does it work in recovery mode. 
>>> There is no braille for emoji either.
>>> Some of this is probably user error because OS X and iOS  probably handle 
>>> braille differently than BRLTTY which is what I used to use. I moved to OS 
>>> X to avoid Windows because I generally prefer UNIX shells and things and I 
>>> thought maybe Apple had better accessibility when I played with it and in 
>>> general I'm not unhappy with that decision. But it seems to me that the 
>>> computer industry in general is releasing poorly written software for all 
>>> users and so I'm thinking every OS is badly written and buggy so I'm giving 
>>> Apple a pass on that one. It seems people want things in this world that 
>>> give the delusion of working but don't actually work and that is ok if 
>>> that's what people want. So I expect it to be horribly broken because 
>>> that's what sells and I'm surprised that in general Apple tends to be less 
>>> horribly broken than other companies but I am sure it's a design decision 
>>> since the focus seems to be on data mining and tracking and accessibility 
>>> just doesn't help them collect data or advertise so it means nothing. And 
>>> braille is the bottom of the stack when it comes to that.
>>> I wrote Apple Accessibility telling them that I've got a lot of time and I 
>>> could learn their architecture and help with braille testing but I got a 
>>> form letter saying that they'd look into the bugs I reported so I left it 
>>> at that. But I would like to know how to get the most out of braille on 
>>> either the phone or the mac because I prefer not to use speech  since it 
>>> gets in the way of 

Instructions for a voice over clean install

[Jesus Garcia]

Morning list members, do to a problem I am having installing the new 
10.11 software, I need to do a complete clean install. I have all my 
data backed up, but do not remember the steps to do a clean install 
using voice over. I know I need to creat a boot disk, if someone would 
be so kind and send me the instructions I would be greatful.


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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Davert]

Hi Blee and others.
I quit upgrading my mac, but am hoping to bring a mac with EL Cap
online soon to test the latest build. The other issue, beyond what
you've outlined quite well, is that I cannot get the rotor to work on
the braille display. I can press space with dots 2-3 or 5-6 to move to
the next rotor option, but space with dot 3 or 6 do not work. I've
emailed Apple about this bug, and they simply said it would hopefully
be fixed at some point. As of Yosemite, it has not.
Regarding your Refreshabraille issue when connecting to USB, have you
tried doing this in HID mode? If you have an older Refreshabraille 18
from 2010 or earlier, this mode will not be supported.

Take care,
Scott

On 10/5/15, Alex Hall  wrote:
> Just for the record, I'm not sure how much my letter did for Xcode. Apple
> had been steadily improving Xcode accessibility for years, just not at a
> pace I'd like, and version 7 still doesn't address many of my concerns. The
> processes are easier and more reliable, certainly, but VO users still follow
> some alternative procedures, and some parts are still unlabeled/not
> intuitive to use. I have to wonder if the improvements we got in 7 were more
> coincidental than the result of anything I wrote.
>
> As to an open letter for braille support, I'd suggest using the AppleVis
> contact form to put the idea forward.
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 09:48, Devin Prater  wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps we could get with Applevis and write an open letter to Apple about
>> braille. Not just for the Mac, but for the phone too, as there are some
>> huge annoyances there too. The open letter seemed to help with xCode so
>> maybe braille can get it next.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, Scott Granados 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a well presented message and reflects a lot of my feeling as
>>> well.  I do not have the driver problems you have, I’m using a Focus 40
>>> Blue but the cursor routing is a real problem.  I find the key assignment
>>> features difficult to master, things are really inconsistent like I could
>>> map space w to close a window for example but it won’t work in mail yet
>>> it will in Text edit etc, mapping across applications is not consistent
>>> for me.  Absolutely agree on the status cells and I disabled them as well
>>> on my 40 cell display.
>>>
>>>
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:

 I have  a display but I may be hitting different bugs than others so I
 wouldn't mind a list either. I have noticed that cursor routing is
 useless because there is no separate braille cursor or braille doesn't
 follow the system cursor it just moves the voiceover cursor which isn't
 what should happen. There's no way to tell if text is selected easily
 since dots 7 and 8 are used for the voiceover cursor as well as the
 highlighting of text. I don't understand what to do with these silly
 status cells at all. I turn them off on OS X and iOS because I don't
 understand how their information is at all useful especially on a small
 18-cell display.
 Braille input is also equally useless on iOS and OS X because I braille
 too quickly and the driver appears to hang. I should also point out that
 I frequently work with autocorrect and dictation turned off because I
 still get input lag typing on qwerty as well but the braille translator
 makes input lag a lot.
 I'd sell this braille display to someone if I could find one for a
 reasonable price that I could put under the laptop or keyborad since I
 don't like the braille input function at all because it doesn't work at
 all in a useful way.
 Also USB serial support is broken in OS X so that you cannot use your
 braillle display in USB mode  at least not with Refreshabraille even
 though the documentation claims it works. Bluetooth frequently drops on
 both iOS and OS X  especially after sleep / wake so often the braille
 display will not connect at all and I have to revert to speech. Braille
 also doesn't work until after the user is logged in, nor does it work in
 recovery mode. There is no braille for emoji either.
 Some of this is probably user error because OS X and iOS  probably
 handle braille differently than BRLTTY which is what I used to use. I
 moved to OS X to avoid Windows because I generally prefer UNIX shells
 and things and I thought maybe Apple had better accessibility when I
 played with it and in general I'm not unhappy with that decision. But it
 seems to me that the computer industry in general is releasing poorly
 written software for all users and so I'm thinking every OS is badly
 written and buggy so I'm giving Apple a pass on that one. It seems
 people want things in this world that give the delusion of working but
 don't actually work and that is ok if that's what people want. So I
 expect it to be horribly broken because that's what sells and I'm
>>

Re: Change language for the osx system on the mac.

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

when you have added a new language you have to delete the other language 
because it will not apply the changes. after you do that, quit system 
preferences, then your computer will ask you to restart your computer.
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 5:54 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I haven't tried this because I don't use other languages, but did you try 
> command-up or command-down? If not, there's another way to drag that I have 
> to use a lot in Xcode which may work here. Of course, the usual dragging 
> method (vo-comma to drag, vo-period to drop) may work as well.
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:42, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> How do i change the language in osx?
>> I know i can go to system prefs and then i should go to language and region 
>> and in  that dialog i can drag the prefered language to the top but how do i 
>> drag an item with voiceover?
>> /A
>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: Change language for the osx system on the mac.

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

Just to clarify, It is not actually necessary to remove preferred languages.

All that is really required is that you drag the language you want to use above 
the currently preferred languages, then quit System Preferences and restart to 
make the changes take affect everywhere.

To do this, you could interact with the preferred languages table, then VO-down 
to the language you want. Of course, make sure to add it here first by using 
the appropriate button. Then, you can press VO-Comma to mark it for drag and 
drop and VO-left to the primary language currently set. Once at the top of the 
list where your primary language should be, press VO-period to drop it there.

Then, just press CMD-Q to quit and restart.

I just tried this out to see if it still works the same way, and it does. Good 
luck!

Nicolai
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> when you have added a new language you have to delete the other language 
> because it will not apply the changes. after you do that, quit system 
> preferences, then your computer will ask you to restart your computer.
>> On 04 Oct 2015, at 5:54 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> I haven't tried this because I don't use other languages, but did you try 
>> command-up or command-down? If not, there's another way to drag that I have 
>> to use a lot in Xcode which may work here. Of course, the usual dragging 
>> method (vo-comma to drag, vo-period to drop) may work as well.
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:42, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> How do i change the language in osx?
>>> I know i can go to system prefs and then i should go to language and region 
>>> and in  that dialog i can drag the prefered language to the top but how do 
>>> i drag an item with voiceover?
>>> /A
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com
>> 
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unlocking my mac with my iPhone

[Chris Gilland]

can somebody please remind me of the name of the app that I need to get both on 
my  mac as well as on my iPhone to be able to unlock my mac from using my 
iPhone?

I know that applevis has a podcast that explains how this is done, but I just 
do not remember the name of the app to save my life.

It's one of these things I never thought that I would use, but the more and 
more I think about it, the more useful it sounds like it might be.

Thanks.

Chris.



Sent from my iPhone

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Re: unlocking my mac with my iPhone

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

I'm guessing you're talking about MacID from

http://macid.co/

Maybe?

Nicolai
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Chris Gilland  wrote:
> 
> can somebody please remind me of the name of the app that I need to get both 
> on my  mac as well as on my iPhone to be able to unlock my mac from using my 
> iPhone?
> 
> I know that applevis has a podcast that explains how this is done, but I just 
> do not remember the name of the app to save my life.
> 
> It's one of these things I never thought that I would use, but the more and 
> more I think about it, the more useful it sounds like it might be.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: unlocking my mac with my iPhone

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Is that the one that was reviewed on Applevis?

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 

To: 
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: unlocking my mac with my iPhone



Hi!

I'm guessing you're talking about MacID from

http://macid.co/

Maybe?

Nicolai

On Oct 5, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Chris Gilland  wrote:

can somebody please remind me of the name of the app that I need to get 
both on my  mac as well as on my iPhone to be able to unlock my mac from 
using my iPhone?


I know that applevis has a podcast that explains how this is done, but I 
just do not remember the name of the app to save my life.


It's one of these things I never thought that I would use, but the more 
and more I think about it, the more useful it sounds like it might be.


Thanks.

Chris.



Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Change language for the osx system on the mac.

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

i didn't know that, thanks
> On 05 Oct 2015, at 9:06 PM, Nicolai Svendsen  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Just to clarify, It is not actually necessary to remove preferred languages.
> 
> All that is really required is that you drag the language you want to use 
> above the currently preferred languages, then quit System Preferences and 
> restart to make the changes take affect everywhere.
> 
> To do this, you could interact with the preferred languages table, then 
> VO-down to the language you want. Of course, make sure to add it here first 
> by using the appropriate button. Then, you can press VO-Comma to mark it for 
> drag and drop and VO-left to the primary language currently set. Once at the 
> top of the list where your primary language should be, press VO-period to 
> drop it there.
> 
> Then, just press CMD-Q to quit and restart.
> 
> I just tried this out to see if it still works the same way, and it does. 
> Good luck!
> 
> Nicolai
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 1:04 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> when you have added a new language you have to delete the other language 
>> because it will not apply the changes. after you do that, quit system 
>> preferences, then your computer will ask you to restart your computer.
>>> On 04 Oct 2015, at 5:54 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried this because I don't use other languages, but did you try 
>>> command-up or command-down? If not, there's another way to drag that I have 
>>> to use a lot in Xcode which may work here. Of course, the usual dragging 
>>> method (vo-comma to drag, vo-period to drop) may work as well.
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:42, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 How do i change the language in osx?
 I know i can go to system prefs and then i should go to language and 
 region and in  that dialog i can drag the prefered language to the top but 
 how do i drag an item with voiceover?
 /A
 
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>>> 
>>> --
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>>> mehg...@icloud.com
>>> 
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Re: unlocking my mac with my iPhone

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

I think there is a review of it up there, but I don't follow Applevis that 
closely. However, it does what you want, at any rate.

Nicolai
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:11 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Is that the one that was reviewed on Applevis?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Nicolai Svendsen" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: unlocking my mac with my iPhone
> 
> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> I'm guessing you're talking about MacID from
>> 
>> http://macid.co/
>> 
>> Maybe?
>> 
>> Nicolai
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 3:49 PM, Chris Gilland  wrote:
>>> 
>>> can somebody please remind me of the name of the app that I need to get 
>>> both on my  mac as well as on my iPhone to be able to unlock my mac from 
>>> using my iPhone?
>>> 
>>> I know that applevis has a podcast that explains how this is done, but I 
>>> just do not remember the name of the app to save my life.
>>> 
>>> It's one of these things I never thought that I would use, but the more and 
>>> more I think about it, the more useful it sounds like it might be.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
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Re: Reinstallation.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I finally got it downloaded.
Now i will try to take a plunge into the dark.
/A
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 19:59, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> It sounds like you may have picked up Mavericks, yeah.  Try again; go to the 
> store and press Download after El Capitan.  The App Store download is a 
> partial download in your Applications folder until it’s finished.  You can 
> also go to the Purchases tab and look there to see how far it’s downloaded.
> 
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Re: Bugs in El Capitin.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I always get these kind of answers.
Wonder if thers a bot answering the messages.
/A
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 21:11, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
> 
> Hi to the list,
> 
> Just wanted to let you guys know  that I've reported some the bugs mentioned 
> to Apple.
> 
> Response is below.
> 
> Here's hoping they get to these  issues in the .1 release.
> 
> Hello,
> Thank you for your email.  We appreciate the feedback and will pass this on 
> to the appropriate people for their consideration.
> 
> Apple Accessibility
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Sadam Ahmed
> 
> Bachelor of Business Information Systems
> 
> RMIT University
> 
> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
ONe thing thats annoying for me as an old jaws and window eyes and dolphin user 
is that i can not move the display individually around the screen without 
hearing the speech.
This is quite frustrating to me.
To explain this better.
Lets say you’re in a dialog box.
I haven’t been able to only use braille in that dialogbox whatever dialog it.
/A
> On 05 Oct 2015, at 00:56, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Indeed, I'd love to have more specifics about braille under OS X to pass 
> along to the rest of the AppleVis team and to keep an eye on in future 
> updates. I don't have a display I can test with right now, unfortunately.
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 18:30, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Sabahattin and others,
>>  The topic of braille support in OS X comes up occasionally but I have not 
>> seen a list of the shortcomings. Is there one? I have used my braille 
>> display mostly with iOS but am interested in putting it to work under OS X. 
>> Then I can add my voice to the clamor and let Apple Accessibility know.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> On 10/2/2015 5:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
>>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
>>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
>>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>>> 
>>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
>>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. 
>>> :)
>>> 
>> 
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> 
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> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
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Re: Updating a brailliant display if you don't have a PC

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Not at all.
You just copyh the zipped update file to a usb stick.
Plug it into your vario ultra and then you should press a key combination which 
i now lost out of my very small brain.
/A
> On 05 Oct 2015, at 03:57, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> The subject line says it all. Is this possible? Must you have a PC in order 
> to update this display?
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Change language for the osx system on the mac.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Actually i made the change by draging english above swedish.
It worked flawlessly.
/A
> On 05 Oct 2015, at 19:04, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> when you have added a new language you have to delete the other language 
> because it will not apply the changes. after you do that, quit system 
> preferences, then your computer will ask you to restart your computer.
>> On 04 Oct 2015, at 5:54 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> I haven't tried this because I don't use other languages, but did you try 
>> command-up or command-down? If not, there's another way to drag that I have 
>> to use a lot in Xcode which may work here. Of course, the usual dragging 
>> method (vo-comma to drag, vo-period to drop) may work as well.
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:42, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> How do i change the language in osx?
>>> I know i can go to system prefs and then i should go to language and region 
>>> and in  that dialog i can drag the prefered language to the top but how do 
>>> i drag an item with voiceover?
>>> /A
>>> 
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>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com
>> 
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Re: Best Way to Use Spotlight Search

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

I think one of the main advantages is supposed to be speed. Spotlight 
keeps an index of all your documents so search results come up quickly. 
The unix find command only searches file meta-data like its name, 
modification date, size etc. Spotlight searches inside your files so if 
you have a document which mentions pizza inside and is named "my 
favorite foods" spotlight should bring it up while find will not.


CB

On 10/3/15 3:59 PM, Blee Blat wrote:

I'm with you. I don't understand why I would use Spotlight when I could easily 
just use the UNIX find command from a terminal, or I know where my files. I've 
turned off all the spotlight options and turned off dictation and Siri because 
it gets things wrong pretty much all the time. I also turn off autocorrect and 
predictive text because I can type fast enough and all the autocorrect does is 
cause me to type the wrong word when I could've typed the right one without 
that feature. Does anyone care to explain what are the use of all these new 
features other than to making thinking superfluous? All this data monitoring 
stuff just seems creepy. But maybe there is a use for it? Why would I want to 
train the dictator and autocorrect if I can type it in just fine with a 
reasonable keyboard?
  None of this is meant as negativity I'm just wondering how to make use of 
these fancy algorithms without the machine thinking for me and being creepy. 
But it could be possibly just user error or user ignorance since I don't know 
what the intent of these things is exactly?




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Re: Best Way to Use Spotlight Search

[Blee Blat]

Yeah, you'd have to use grep to look inside files  so it saves an extra 
command. UNIX find will use the slocate and whatis databases as well for faster 
searches. I don't know how those compare with other spotlight indexes. It seems 
like a way to collect data more than help me find it and I'm usually fairly 
organized but I should probably screw around with and see what's what.

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Re: Best Way to Use Spotlight Search

[Brian Fischler]

Chris, if you use spotlight let us know what key commands you use with it? 
Example tab VO and arrow, just arrows. What is the easiest way to navigate 
search results. Thanks,
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 5:24 PM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think one of the main advantages is supposed to be speed. Spotlight keeps 
> an index of all your documents so search results come up quickly. The unix 
> find command only searches file meta-data like its name, modification date, 
> size etc. Spotlight searches inside your files so if you have a document 
> which mentions pizza inside and is named "my favorite foods" spotlight should 
> bring it up while find will not.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 10/3/15 3:59 PM, Blee Blat wrote:
>> I'm with you. I don't understand why I would use Spotlight when I could 
>> easily just use the UNIX find command from a terminal, or I know where my 
>> files. I've turned off all the spotlight options and turned off dictation 
>> and Siri because it gets things wrong pretty much all the time. I also turn 
>> off autocorrect and predictive text because I can type fast enough and all 
>> the autocorrect does is cause me to type the wrong word when I could've 
>> typed the right one without that feature. Does anyone care to explain what 
>> are the use of all these new features other than to making thinking 
>> superfluous? All this data monitoring stuff just seems creepy. But maybe 
>> there is a use for it? Why would I want to train the dictator and 
>> autocorrect if I can type it in just fine with a reasonable keyboard?
>>  None of this is meant as negativity I'm just wondering how to make use of 
>> these fancy algorithms without the machine thinking for me and being creepy. 
>> But it could be possibly just user error or user ignorance since I don't 
>> know what the intent of these things is exactly?
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
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Braille Support in OS X

[E.T.]

   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" 
discussion of the braille support in OS X.


   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are 
the shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two 
reasons. One, to better use this personally, and two, to better 
communicate it to Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it 
will be more effective if we can stay on track.


   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and 
OS X so please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille 
support in OS X. Thanks.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Devin Prater]

My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like italics 
and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is italicized, VoiceOver just 
puts it in a new element, and doesn't show that it is formatted any differently 
in braille. Another problem is that we can't change the fact that braille shows 
more than the voiceover cursor, and the only way to know what truely is in the 
cursor is to have the annoying dots 7 and 8 showing.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" discussion 
> of the braille support in OS X.
> 
>   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are the 
> shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two reasons. 
> One, to better use this personally, and two, to better communicate it to 
> Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it will be more effective 
> if we can stay on track.
> 
>   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and OS X so 
> please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille support in OS 
> X. Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> -- 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[E.T.]

Devin,
   Does the formatting issue apply to all braille codes? I thought UEB 
handled this better or is it due to how Apple implemented it?


   The VO cursor thing would be annoying for sure and I will look at 
that when I start working with my braille display.


   Thanks, this is good feedback.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/5/2015 2:54 PM, Devin Prater wrote:

My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like
italics and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is
/italicized/, VoiceOver just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show
that it is formatted any differently in braille. Another problem is that
we can't change the fact that braille shows more than the voiceover
cursor, and the only way to know what truely is in the cursor is to have
the annoying dots 7 and 8 showing.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T. mailto:ancient.ali...@icloud.com>> wrote:


  I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused"
discussion of the braille support in OS X.

  What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are
the shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for
two reasons. One, to better use this personally, and two, to better
communicate it to Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it
will be more effective if we can stay on track.

  I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and
OS X so please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about
braille support in OS X. Thanks.

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Devin Prater]

Nope, its how Apple handled things. I think the new element thing coul have 
been a sort of temporary fix, but the formatting has never been implimented. 
This effects books and webpages the most. For an example of this, see 
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/guzik/genesis/32.htm
In this page, there are italicized passages, however, voiceover users cannot 
tell easily where the italics are, even with the text formatting status cell on 
unless using the arrow keys to move down the page, which is also not so good 
with braille, as it just goes down to the end of the paragraph.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 5:16 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Devin,
>   Does the formatting issue apply to all braille codes? I thought UEB handled 
> this better or is it due to how Apple implemented it?
> 
>   The VO cursor thing would be annoying for sure and I will look at that when 
> I start working with my braille display.
> 
>   Thanks, this is good feedback.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 10/5/2015 2:54 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
>> My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like
>> italics and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is
>> /italicized/, VoiceOver just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show
>> that it is formatted any differently in braille. Another problem is that
>> we can't change the fact that braille shows more than the voiceover
>> cursor, and the only way to know what truely is in the cursor is to have
>> the annoying dots 7 and 8 showing.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>>>  I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused"
>>> discussion of the braille support in OS X.
>>> 
>>>  What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are
>>> the shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for
>>> two reasons. One, to better use this personally, and two, to better
>>> communicate it to Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it
>>> will be more effective if we can stay on track.
>>> 
>>>  I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and
>>> OS X so please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about
>>> braille support in OS X. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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>> 
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Safari 9 and Favorites Bar

[thepianist2188]

Hello,

I used to be able to press command 1, 2 etc, to go to the website at that 
position of the favorites bar. It seems that in Safari 9, this has been 
removed. Is there a preference somewhere to reenable this? Or is it gone for 
good?

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Safari 9 and Favorites Bar

[Daniel Miller]

Press command+option+the number.

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:17 PM, thepianist2...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I used to be able to press command 1, 2 etc, to go to the website at that 
> position of the favorites bar. It seems that in Safari 9, this has been 
> removed. Is there a preference somewhere to reenable this? Or is it gone for 
> good?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
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Re: Safari 9 and Favorites Bar

[Brandon A. Olivares]

Oo, thanks. That works perfectly.

Anything is possible,
Brandon Olivares

www.CoCreationCoaching.org 
Create a life of infinite possibilities!

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cocreationcoaching 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/coachcocreation 





> On Oct 5, 2015, at 8:21 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> Press command+option+the number.
> 
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:17 PM, thepianist2...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I used to be able to press command 1, 2 etc, to go to the website at that 
>> position of the favorites bar. It seems that in Safari 9, this has been 
>> removed. Is there a preference somewhere to reenable this? Or is it gone for 
>> good?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Alex Hall]

Can you explain a bit more about the VoiceOver cursor and dots 7 and 8? How 
does the use of dots 7 and 8 pose a problem, and what does the VO cursor 
indicate or not indicate that you would like changed? I'm just not following 
this one, and I want to be sure I explain it correctly in the list I'm 
compiling. Thanks.
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 17:54, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like italics 
> and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is italicized, VoiceOver 
> just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show that it is formatted any 
> differently in braille. Another problem is that we can't change the fact that 
> braille shows more than the voiceover cursor, and the only way to know what 
> truely is in the cursor is to have the annoying dots 7 and 8 showing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T.  > wrote:
> 
>>   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" discussion 
>> of the braille support in OS X.
>> 
>>   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are the 
>> shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two reasons. 
>> One, to better use this personally, and two, to better communicate it to 
>> Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it will be more effective 
>> if we can stay on track.
>> 
>>   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and OS X so 
>> please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille support in 
>> OS X. Thanks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>> .
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>> .
> 
> 
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--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Devin Prater]

For me, at least, having to feel dots 7 and 8 just to know where the cursor is 
is just not what I'd like. For example, when I'm in a dialog, and voiceover 
focus is on the text of the dialog, its hard to read with dots 7 and 8 in the 
way. I'd like the mac braille implimentation to be more like the iPhone, or at 
least have the choice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Can you explain a bit more about the VoiceOver cursor and dots 7 and 8? How 
> does the use of dots 7 and 8 pose a problem, and what does the VO cursor 
> indicate or not indicate that you would like changed? I'm just not following 
> this one, and I want to be sure I explain it correctly in the list I'm 
> compiling. Thanks.
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 17:54, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like 
>> italics and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is italicized, 
>> VoiceOver just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show that it is 
>> formatted any differently in braille. Another problem is that we can't 
>> change the fact that braille shows more than the voiceover cursor, and the 
>> only way to know what truely is in the cursor is to have the annoying dots 7 
>> and 8 showing.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>>   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" discussion 
>>> of the braille support in OS X.
>>> 
>>>   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are the 
>>> shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two 
>>> reasons. One, to better use this personally, and two, to better communicate 
>>> it to Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it will be more 
>>> effective if we can stay on track.
>>> 
>>>   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and OS X 
>>> so please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille support 
>>> in OS X. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Alex Hall]

Okay, that makes sense, and I remember thinking the same thing during my brief 
flirtation with braille on OS X years back. Dots 7 and 8 seems like a great way 
to highlight text in braille, until you actually try to read it. Then it just 
slows you down and is plain distracting. I think you can turn it off, but how 
else might Apple indicate VO focus to braille users?
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 20:55, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> For me, at least, having to feel dots 7 and 8 just to know where the cursor 
> is is just not what I'd like. For example, when I'm in a dialog, and 
> voiceover focus is on the text of the dialog, its hard to read with dots 7 
> and 8 in the way. I'd like the mac braille implimentation to be more like the 
> iPhone, or at least have the choice.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
>> Can you explain a bit more about the VoiceOver cursor and dots 7 and 8? How 
>> does the use of dots 7 and 8 pose a problem, and what does the VO cursor 
>> indicate or not indicate that you would like changed? I'm just not following 
>> this one, and I want to be sure I explain it correctly in the list I'm 
>> compiling. Thanks.
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 17:54, Devin Prater >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like 
>>> italics and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is italicized, 
>>> VoiceOver just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show that it is 
>>> formatted any differently in braille. Another problem is that we can't 
>>> change the fact that braille shows more than the voiceover cursor, and the 
>>> only way to know what truely is in the cursor is to have the annoying dots 
>>> 7 and 8 showing.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" 
 discussion of the braille support in OS X.
 
   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are the 
 shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two 
 reasons. One, to better use this personally, and two, to better 
 communicate it to Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it 
 will be more effective if we can stay on track.
 
   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and OS X 
 so please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille support 
 in OS X. Thanks.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 -- 
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 .
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 .
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 .
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> .
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com 
>> 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Devin Prater]

Well, as I said, they could just do as they do on the iPhone. Or they could 
have a full cell enclosing the text of the voiceover cursor, as the braille 
sense does with selected text.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Okay, that makes sense, and I remember thinking the same thing during my 
> brief flirtation with braille on OS X years back. Dots 7 and 8 seems like a 
> great way to highlight text in braille, until you actually try to read it. 
> Then it just slows you down and is plain distracting. I think you can turn it 
> off, but how else might Apple indicate VO focus to braille users?
>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 20:55, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> For me, at least, having to feel dots 7 and 8 just to know where the cursor 
>> is is just not what I'd like. For example, when I'm in a dialog, and 
>> voiceover focus is on the text of the dialog, its hard to read with dots 7 
>> and 8 in the way. I'd like the mac braille implimentation to be more like 
>> the iPhone, or at least have the choice.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 5, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can you explain a bit more about the VoiceOver cursor and dots 7 and 8? How 
>>> does the use of dots 7 and 8 pose a problem, and what does the VO cursor 
>>> indicate or not indicate that you would like changed? I'm just not 
>>> following this one, and I want to be sure I explain it correctly in the 
>>> list I'm compiling. Thanks.
 On Oct 5, 2015, at 17:54, Devin Prater  wrote:
 
 My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like 
 italics and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is italicized, 
 VoiceOver just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show that it is 
 formatted any differently in braille. Another problem is that we can't 
 change the fact that braille shows more than the voiceover cursor, and the 
 only way to know what truely is in the cursor is to have the annoying dots 
 7 and 8 showing.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" 
> discussion of the braille support in OS X.
> 
>   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are the 
> shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two 
> reasons. One, to better use this personally, and two, to better 
> communicate it to Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it 
> will be more effective if we can stay on track.
> 
>   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and OS X 
> so please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille 
> support in OS X. Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex Hall
>>> mehg...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
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> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
> -- 
> Y

Garbled text when writing using a keyboard that is plugged in to an iPad running iOS 9.02

[Mary Otten]

Hi all,
I am familiar with the stories of folks who use Bluetooth keyboards and who 
have had problems with doubled characters while riding in edit boxes under iOS 
nine. I found a nice keyboard with a lightning connector that I like a lot, 
made by mac Ally. I hadn't used it a lot, but I haven't seen the character 
garble problem until this evening. Then, while using the notes app, I could 
type nothing but junk. Turn voiceover off and back on seemed to solve the 
problem. But it sort of made me lose confidence in this as a reliable means of 
taking down notes. Is there a reliable way of for sure stopping the problem 
when you have it?

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Updating a brailliant display if you don't have a PC

[Gabe Griffith]

Hi,
I think she was talking about the human were brilliant. That display is only 
able to be updated through a Windows PC. There is no tool for updating it 
through a USB stick or a Mac.
Gabe


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Not at all.
> You just copyh the zipped update file to a usb stick.
> Plug it into your vario ultra and then you should press a key combination 
> which i now lost out of my very small brain.
> /A
>> On 05 Oct 2015, at 03:57, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> The subject line says it all. Is this possible? Must you have a PC in order 
>> to update this display?
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Blee Blat]

I don't find dots 7 and 8 hard to read with text I just don't understand why I 
would need to know the position of the VoiceOver  cursor without knowing the 
positions of the system cursor. I think they should have separate braille and 
speech cursors as well as the system cursor. The user should be able to select 
which dot patterns represent what. This needs to be extremely customizable 
because the user is going to want to read braille differently depending on 
display size and reading ability and other things. Also something like BRLTTY's 
skipping of blank windows and sliding windows features would be lovely for 
small displays. BRLTTY will optionally remove white space and other screen 
areas that are just blank  and then try to fill as much of the display with 
text as it possibly can. This is good for when you're just reading a document 
like a book where you don't need to care about indentation or other formatting. 
You can toggle all this stuff on and off as needed.  I hope that made at least 
some sense, but if not feel free to ask more questions.

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Re: Reinstallation.

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

where can i find disk maker x?
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 11:28 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> I am happy to report that Disk Maker X works again. I just helped out a 
> friend do a clean install of El Capitan the other night because her Mac kept 
> freezing and crashing on her and we were able to use Disk Maker X 
> successfully. So to those of you that don't want to use terminal because 
> you're not comfortable with it, Disk Maker X is an option again.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:12 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> OK, step the first is to download the thing from the MAS.  Go to the Mac App 
>> Store, find the OS you want, and download.  Once you have it, it will open 
>> automatically offering to install; quit the Installer.
>> 
>> The next step is trickier.  If someone has a graphical approach, post it 
>> now; otherwise, you’ll be using the command line.  Put your USB key in, and 
>> use the createinstallmedia tool.  Instructions are here:
>> http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/
>> 
>> Now, you will boot that drive, use Disk Utility to erase your internal disk, 
>> and perform the installation.  But that’s for later, once you have the drive 
>> ready to go.
>> 
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> 
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Re: Reinstallation.

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Try doing a google search for it. It should be the first result you see.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 6, 2015, at 12:23 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> where can i find disk maker x?
>> On 04 Oct 2015, at 11:28 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> I am happy to report that Disk Maker X works again. I just helped out a 
>> friend do a clean install of El Capitan the other night because her Mac kept 
>> freezing and crashing on her and we were able to use Disk Maker X 
>> successfully. So to those of you that don't want to use terminal because 
>> you're not comfortable with it, Disk Maker X is an option again.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:12 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK, step the first is to download the thing from the MAS.  Go to the Mac 
>>> App Store, find the OS you want, and download.  Once you have it, it will 
>>> open automatically offering to install; quit the Installer.
>>> 
>>> The next step is trickier.  If someone has a graphical approach, post it 
>>> now; otherwise, you’ll be using the command line.  Put your USB key in, and 
>>> use the createinstallmedia tool.  Instructions are here:
>>> http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/
>>> 
>>> Now, you will boot that drive, use Disk Utility to erase your internal 
>>> disk, and perform the installation.  But that’s for later, once you have 
>>> the drive ready to go.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
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> 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Devin Prater]

Can BRLTTY be compiled for the mac?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2015, at 11:58 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I don't find dots 7 and 8 hard to read with text I just don't understand why 
> I would need to know the position of the VoiceOver  cursor without knowing 
> the positions of the system cursor. I think they should have separate braille 
> and speech cursors as well as the system cursor. The user should be able to 
> select which dot patterns represent what. This needs to be extremely 
> customizable because the user is going to want to read braille differently 
> depending on display size and reading ability and other things. Also 
> something like BRLTTY's skipping of blank windows and sliding windows 
> features would be lovely for small displays. BRLTTY will optionally remove 
> white space and other screen areas that are just blank  and then try to fill 
> as much of the display with text as it possibly can. This is good for when 
> you're just reading a document like a book where you don't need to care about 
> indentation or other formatting. You can toggle all this stuff on and off as 
> needed.  I hope that made at least some sense, but if not feel free to ask 
> more questions.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Braille Support in OS X

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
My problem is, i think, a typical european problem as i understand it.
I haven’t worked a lot with Braille, so if this problem is fixed then all is 
well. As it is right now, braille repeats just what the speech says rather like 
in the structured mode of Jaws. It would be nice if the braille cursor could 
work independently of the speech so that i could investigate typing errors, 
words i don’t know the spelling of etc. The braille doesn’t necessarily have to 
repeat what the speech just said if i don’t explicitly want this but then it 
should be an option in the rotor or something to that effect.
These are my two gripes about the braille and it’s what i have heard from some 
people here in Sweden as well. What i mean by that this is an european problem 
is that it seems europeans want a more independent braille while in the U.S 
this isn’t or mostly isn’t the case. If this is all wrong i stand corrected and 
apologize to the list in advance.
/Krister

> 5 okt. 2015 kl. 23:54 skrev Devin Prater :
> 
> My biggest problem is that I cannot read formatting information, like italics 
> and bold. For example, on a webpage, if something is italicized, VoiceOver 
> just puts it in a new element, and doesn't show that it is formatted any 
> differently in braille. Another problem is that we can't change the fact that 
> braille shows more than the voiceover cursor, and the only way to know what 
> truely is in the cursor is to have the annoying dots 7 and 8 showing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 5, 2015, at 4:49 PM, E.T.  > wrote:
> 
>>   I am posting a new thread in the hopes of starting a "focused" discussion 
>> of the braille support in OS X.
>> 
>>   What I mean by "focused"  is this. What exactly, specifically, are the 
>> shortcomings of OS X's braille support. I need to know this for two reasons. 
>> One, to better use this personally, and two, to better communicate it to 
>> Apple. Many of you have your gripes with this but it will be more effective 
>> if we can stay on track.
>> 
>>   I am not as proficient as I would like to be with both braille and OS X so 
>> please lets not deviate from the mission. This is about braille support in 
>> OS X. Thanks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>> -- 
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>> .
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>> .
> 
> 
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