Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

[Ben King]

Dear Simon,
iBooks is available on the iPhone and iPod touch as well.  So you can install 
the ap and read.
Blessings,
Ben King
On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

> Is this I book application available for the ipod touch or IPhone?
> Or is it only for the mac osx
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Fleischer
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 12:21 a.m.
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes
> 
>  
> How do you get the book  loaded into Ibooks?
> Peggy Fleischer
> peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net
>  
>  Psalm 90 12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts 
> unto wisdom.
>  
> On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Greg Weller wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the new version of ibooks that just came today you can read pdfs 
> in that...I just loaded a 1500 page file and voiceober is reading it 
> ...this is on an i
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 21/06/2010, at 9:10 PM, Joel Zimba  wrote:
> 
> 
> I did notice that I have a few pdfs in my books section of itunes.  I'm not 
> sure how I got them there...  nor what to do with them exactly,  it would be 
> great if ibooks learned to read them, as I'm more and more impressed with it 
> as I play.
> J
>  
> On Jun 21, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Catherine Kudlick wrote:
>  
> Hi All,
> Someone just sent me a long book manuscript as a pdf.  If I wanted to read it 
> on the go on my ipod touch, what's the best way to do it?  Should I use 
> voiceover?  Or is it true that it's possible to convert the pdf to a spoken 
> word text that I could access through itunes?  If so, how do I do this?  And 
> is it easier to use in itunes than in VO? For example, can you set the pace 
> of speech in these itunes files or mark your place?
>  
> Also, can what I read be sync-ed between devices? For example if I start 
> reading it on my Macbook Pro but then want to pick up on my ipod, would it 
> sync to where I left off?  
>  
> Thanks so much, cathy
>  
> --
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>  
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> pad...buttit should work on an iphone w IS 4
> 
> greg
> 
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>  
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Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating by form field and text

[Chris Snyder]

Alfredo,
The quick nav function is activated by pressing the left and right arrows 
together. The up and down arrows together is a voiceover press like VO-space 
bar. The up and right, or up and left arrows cycle you through either the web 
rotor or if not in a browser, they cycle you through the characters, words or 
navigation choices for reading. The right and down arrows together and left and 
down arrows interact and stop interacting respectively.

Friendly,
Chris

On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:58 PM, Alfredo wrote:

> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read
> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This
> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not
> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice
> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set on
> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening.
> Jumping by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I
> believe it is needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know
> that you could browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you
> activate quick nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with
> the down arrow key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to
> the text edit field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has
> not told me or did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater
> thanks for the suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow,
> twice, to get to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a
> new tab, or will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
> Thanks,
> alfredo
> 
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Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating by form field and text

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Alfredo,

I'll take this point by point.

On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Alfredo wrote:

> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read
> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This
> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not
> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice
> to have an audio feedback when the page loads,
There is audio feedback when a page has loaded, it is a triple tone.

> 
> Jumping by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I
> believe it is needed, I will write about about this.
You can go through all the elements on a page by opening the item chooser 
(VO-i). You can jump from header to header of any level, from header to header 
of the same level, from link to link, from visited link to visited link, and 
many other options. What more do you want? Have you explored the commands menus?

> I did not know
> that you could browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you
> activate quick nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with
> the down arrow key right?
No, you activate Quick Nav by pressing the left and right arrow keys. The up 
and down arrow keys together perform the default action.
> thanks for the suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow,
> twice, to get to do a Google search.
A quicker way to do a google search is to press Command-Option-f. The same 
command is used in Mail to launch a search.

Cheers,

Anne

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Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating by form field and text

[Chris Moore]

In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give you an 
indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from having to use 
the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page is loaded.

Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.

To open a new tab, press command + T
To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab 

Hope this helps.

If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback and you can 
also write to accessibil...@apple.com

Hope this helps 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:

> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read
> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This
> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not
> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice
> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set on
> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening.
> Jumping by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I
> believe it is needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know
> that you could browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you
> activate quick nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with
> the down arrow key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to
> the text edit field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has
> not told me or did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater
> thanks for the suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow,
> twice, to get to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a
> new tab, or will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
> Thanks,
> alfredo
> 
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> 


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Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

[Chris Moore]

Go into the app store on your iPod/iPhone and click on featured, you will see 
it there.
On 23 Jun 2010, at 08:13, Ben King wrote:

> Dear Simon,
> iBooks is available on the iPhone and iPod touch as well.  So you can install 
> the ap and read.
> Blessings,
> Ben King
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
> 
>> Is this I book application available for the ipod touch or IPhone?
>> Or is it only for the mac osx
>>  
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Fleischer
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 12:21 a.m.
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes
>>  
>> How do you get the book  loaded into Ibooks?
>> Peggy Fleischer
>> peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net
>>  
>>  Psalm 90 12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts 
>> unto wisdom.
>>  
>> On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Greg Weller wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you have the new version of ibooks that just came today you can read pdfs 
>> in that...I just loaded a 1500 page file and voiceober is reading it 
>> ...this is on an i
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 21/06/2010, at 9:10 PM, Joel Zimba  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I did notice that I have a few pdfs in my books section of itunes.  I'm not 
>> sure how I got them there...  nor what to do with them exactly,  it would be 
>> great if ibooks learned to read them, as I'm more and more impressed with it 
>> as I play.
>> J
>>  
>> On Jun 21, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Catherine Kudlick wrote:
>>  
>> Hi All,
>> Someone just sent me a long book manuscript as a pdf.  If I wanted to read 
>> it on the go on my ipod touch, what's the best way to do it?  Should I use 
>> voiceover?  Or is it true that it's possible to convert the pdf to a spoken 
>> word text that I could access through itunes?  If so, how do I do this?  And 
>> is it easier to use in itunes than in VO? For example, can you set the pace 
>> of speech in these itunes files or mark your place?
>>  
>> Also, can what I read be sync-ed between devices? For example if I start 
>> reading it on my Macbook Pro but then want to pick up on my ipod, would it 
>> sync to where I left off?  
>>  
>> Thanks so much, cathy
>>  
>> --
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email tomacvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
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>> tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group 
>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>  
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>> tomacvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> pad...buttit should work on an iphone w IS 4
>> 
>> greg
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
>>  
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> 
> 
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RE: Economics and the Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, they 
were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind people 
out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more trouble 
than it was worth, and dropped the project.

I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen reader 
company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems got 
shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might like 
Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines for a 
long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.

Bryan

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:

> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
> to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
> boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
> Anchorage, Alaska.
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>
> I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
> have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
> I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
> secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
> FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
> market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
> that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
> ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
> ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
> of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
> by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
> deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
> anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
> a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
> robotic.  Tell me that's not ridiculous?  I don't know that agencies
> are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our
> needs that somebody will buy it.  Not me.  Granted, if more people
> were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with
> macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things
> might come down a bit.  That's great about the scanner.  I'd better
> stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing
> correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault.
>
> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>
>> With all due respect, that argument has been used time and time
>> again.  To that, I say this: the best example of a product that has
>> gone down in price because of the acceptance of it by the sighted
>> community, is the optical scanner, which was originally intended for
>> use by the blind for scanning newspapers, magazines, and othr
>> documents in their computers or reading machines.  Back then, you had
>> to pay thousands of dolars for the machine, and ys, state agencies
>> bought it for us, if we were lucky.  Now, one can buy a scanner and
>> to a certain extent, software for scanning pictures, text, and other
>> document forms into one's PC, at a fraction of the cost it was in the
>> 1970's.  The point here is that it found a marketable niche among the
>> sighted community, and once they were mass-produced, prices started
>>

Re: Economics and the Mac

[Rob Lambert]

In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high
school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around
here, are Mac-based.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:

> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the
> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies,
> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind
> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more
> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>
> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen
> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems
> got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals
> might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows
> machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.
>
> Bryan
>
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>
> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
> > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
> > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
> > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
> > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
> > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
> > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
> > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
> > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
> > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
> > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
> > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
> > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
> > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
> > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
> > Anchorage, Alaska.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
> >
> > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
> > have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
> > I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
> > secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
> > FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
> > market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
> > that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
> > ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
> > ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
> > of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
> > by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
> > deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
> > anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
> > a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
> > robotic.  Tell me that's not ridiculous?  I don't know that agencies
> > are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our
> > needs that somebody will buy it.  Not me.  Granted, if more people
> > were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with
> > macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things
> > might come down a bit.  That's great about the scanner.  I'd better
> > stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing
> > correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
> >
> >> With all due respect, that argument has been used time and time
> >> again.  To that, I say this: the best example of a product that has
> >> gone down in price because of the acceptance of it by the sighted
> >> community, is the optical scanner, which was originally intended for
> >> use by the blind for scanning newspapers, magazines, and othr
> >> documents in their computers or reading machines.  Back then, you had
> >> to pay thousands of dolars for the machine, and ys, state agencies

RE: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

[Simon Fogarty]

 Mary, 
 I assume, that by people discussing it on this list, that it's accessible
to us on these devices?

 Will it read e books or is it for mp3 / m4b type audio books etc?

 I've got a number of e-books that I'd really like to be reading but can't
find a decent e book reader that works with vo!

Cheers 

Simon F

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 6:46 p.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

Ibooks is now available on the Ipod touch and Iphone, not just hte Ipad. Its
not on the  Mac.
mary

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RE: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

[Simon Fogarty]

Thanks Ben,

 

I assume that iBooks  is free app for the iPod touch?

 

Cheers 

 

Simon F

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben King
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 7:13 p.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

 

Dear Simon,

iBooks is available on the iPhone and iPod touch as well.  So you can
install the ap and read.

Blessings,

Ben King

On Jun 22, 2010, at 10:59 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:





Is this I book application available for the ipod touch or IPhone?

Or is it only for the mac osx

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peggy Fleischer
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 12:21 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

 

How do you get the book  loaded into Ibooks?

Peggy Fleischer

peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net

 

 Psalm   90
 12 So teach us
to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:41 PM, Greg Weller wrote:









If you have the new version of ibooks that just came today you can read pdfs
in that...I just loaded a 1500 page file and voiceober is reading it 
...this is on an i

Sent from my iPad

On 21/06/2010, at 9:10 PM, Joel Zimba  wrote:





I did notice that I have a few pdfs in my books section of itunes.  I'm not
sure how I got them there...  nor what to do with them exactly,  it would be
great if ibooks learned to read them, as I'm more and more impressed with it
as I play.

J

 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Catherine Kudlick wrote:

 

Hi All,

Someone just sent me a long book manuscript as a pdf.  If I wanted to read
it on the go on my ipod touch, what's the best way to do it?  Should I use
voiceover?  Or is it true that it's possible to convert the pdf to a spoken
word text that I could access through itunes?  If so, how do I do this?  And
is it easier to use in itunes than in VO? For example, can you set the pace
of speech in these itunes files or mark your place?

 

Also, can what I read be sync-ed between devices? For example if I start
reading it on my Macbook Pro but then want to pick up on my ipod, would it
sync to where I left off?  

 

Thanks so much, cathy

 

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pad...buttit should work on an iphone w IS 4


greg

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Re: VoiceOver and Apple Script

[Krister Ekstrom]

23 jun 2010 kl. 05.39 skrev Chris Moore:

> You can create keyboard shortcuts to hotspots, so you could try creating a 
> hot spot to the battery status in the menu bar 
Pardon me if i'm wrong here, it was ages since i looked at the hot spot 
feature, but isn't it so that you can't save hotspots, so you'll have to create 
them every time you want them? That's about one of the only things in voiceover 
that i wish could be better, a set of savable hotspots that you could save on a 
per application basis, possibly with ability to name, just like in Outspoken if 
anyone remember that feature.
/Krister

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Re: Safari Update

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi, i don't know if i'm wrong or what it is, but i don't seem to have any of 
the problems described since upgrading to Safari 5. Haven't run it so much on 
my Macbook though, so maybe the bugs are there. Only thing i can confirm is the 
bug in Ichat where you can see dates of chats but not the text of the message. 
I have tried both with the mouse following vo cursor and without and don't have 
any problems.
/Krister
23 jun 2010 kl. 05.32 skrev Cody Hurst:

> Voiceover doesn't seem to meshw ell with facebook either. sometimes if I'm 
> kicked out of the html content even if I just try to arrow over it and not 
> even interact with it, voiceover crashes and relaunches
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 6:00 PM, rayna424 wrote:
> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Haven't had any problems, so haven't needed to post. I searched to see
>> how ya'll were feeling about the latest Safari update, and it seems
>> I'm not alone. Safari keeps freaking out when I navigate by headers on
>> certain sites, and it's really freaking out with Blogger now. When I
>> interact with text, I can't use command up arrow and down arrow to get
>> from top to bottom, and when I'm interacting, it won't let me go line
>> by line in a text edit field. So the only way to edit is to go word by
>> word. Also, when I click the "select all" link for labels, Safari dies
>> and I have to restart it. Every time. So I don't do that anymore and
>> I've started composing blogs in text edit.
>> 
>> This takes me back to being afraid to install Windows updates. I'm
>> still using Leopard. Is anyone having problems with the latest Safari
>> in Snow?
>> 
>> Just had to complain. I send the error reports to Apple every time
>> since at least with Apple, I have faith that they are listening.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
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sendspace app

[chad baker]

Hi just downloaded sendspace and can't input my user name and password.
When i type nothing gets put in the field.
I made sure the edit field had focus.
any suggestions
thanks

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RE: braille display key assignments

[Aman Singer]

Hi, Mary.
On the Iphone at least, and I would suspect that throughout I OS 4,
if you go into the practice Voice Over gestures, which is under
settings/general/accessibility/voice over, you are able to hit keys on the
braille display and be told what they do as well as having what they do
displayed.
I hope this helps.
Aman


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:06 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: braille display key assignments

Hi all,
For those of you using braille displays, I'm curious whether it has been
standard operating procedure for Apple to provide key assignments for the
various keys on supported displays. I got the idea this info was available
if one has a display hooked up, which I don't yet have. I ask because the
upgrade to ios4 has added braille support, with a number of displays
apparently supported. I know its early days yet for this, so its possible
that the key assignments for supported displays will be available in the
updated support documentation. thus far, people are having to go to voice
over gestures and try different combinations to figure out what the keys on
their display will do. Beats a blank, as they say. but I would hope that the
practice will be to have key assignments listed in the relevant support docs
once they become available.

mary

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Re: handy tech braille star 40 bluetooth pairing with iphone

[Peter Durieux]

Hi Doug,

When I'm entering that braille section in the voice over settings, my iphone 
keep on searching for devices but no handy tech is showing up. when I'm 
scanning with my macbook, The Handy Tech is found.

Any future tips should be very welcome. :)

tia

-Peter


Op 22-jun-2010, om 22:24 heeft Doug Lawlor het volgende geschreven:

> Hi Peter, make sure to go into Braille settings in the VoiceOver settings to 
> pair you're display. This is not done under the Bluetooth settings.Doug 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 2010-06-22, at 4:14 PM, Peter Durieux  wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> Has anyone success pairing the Handy techs Braillestar 40 with his 
>> iphone/ipod?
>> My Iphone seems searching , but  don't see the device.
>> When I scan with my macbook, it was found.
>> 
>> Any suggestions should be appreciated.
>> 
>> tia
>> 
>> -Peter
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: VoiceOver and Apple Script

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi,

Just a common misconception.

VoiceOver does not have to be allowed to use AppleScript to use the Keyboard 
commander. This may be true for some AppleScripts, however my custom ones seem 
to work fine without it checked. Only difference is that it will tell you 
information through your system voice, and not VoiceOVer, as an example. This 
means you can have one voice for VoiceOver, and whatever settings are used for 
your system speech will be used with keyboard commander.

I just wanted to clarify here as a tip.

Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com
Facebook
Twitter
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
Yahoo! Messenger: cin368
AIM: cincinster

On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:52 AM, Linda Adams wrote:

> Fonzie,
> 
> In addition to checking scripts, my "cheat sheet" also says the keyboard
> commander in VO utilities has to be "enabled." 
> 
> HTH
> Linda
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Fonzie
> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:24 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: VoiceOver and Apple Script
> 
> 
> Hey all, I hope everyone is well.
> 
> Been  a while since I have posted to the list.
> 
> Anywho, a friend of mine recently got a mac, and he go the new mac, with
> the wireless keyboard and mouse.
> 
> Everything was set up fine, but when I told him he could get the time by
> using Option + T while voiceover was running, the command did not work.
> 
> I made sure to have him check the "Allow VoiceOver to be controlled by
> AppleScript" in the VoiceOver Utility, but still no dice.
> 
> Any idea as to why this is not working as it should?
> 
> I know it iis an apple script, but as I remember it, when I loaded Snow
> Leopard, my scripts worked out of the box.
> 
> Help is appreciated if you have experienced this issue before, or have
> some general direction of what I could have him do.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Take care.
> 
> Fonzie
> 
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Re: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app

[Maxwell Ivey Jr.]

i had this happen on my mac the other day and had to go to utilities  
and then to activitiy monitor to turn the
program off before i could remove it and then eventually send it to  
the trash.  hope that helps, max On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:51 AM, Simon  
Fogarty wrote:



Does that work also with applications?

I've been trying to remove an application I no longer want  from my  
IPod

but I've had no luck with it. I wonder now if this will work.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 9:14 a.m.
To: mac vissionaries vissionaries
Subject: tip: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app

Ok all. Here is my method of deleting podcasts on the iphone. Not  
sure where

else this works in the ipod app but yeah.

1. from within the ipod app navigate to the podcast  button and  
double tap.


2. Now browse to the podcast such as  market place, or car talk for  
example.


3. find the episode you want to delete, double tap and hold then  
swipe very
slowly to the right. it should take you no more then 2 seconds to do  
this.
Now check and it should say confirm deletion of xxx where  
xxx is

your episode name.

4. double tap that episode and it is gone.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Safari Update

[Maxwell Ivey Jr.]

Hello;  after i upgraded my safari and mail programs were both less  
stable a lot of jumping in voiceover's speaking.  But after a restart  
most all of that seams to have gone away thank goodness.  I was having  
to read emails line by line because vo would stop reading the text and  
start giving me system info or focus info or something else i didn't  
want right that second.  safari seams to be faster and the one site i  
can't live without my webstats program is still accessible.  in the  
last update of safari i couldn't read my reports until the .1 version  
came out; so over all I'm happy.  I don't have an audible account, so  
I won't be surprised if people did have and are still having problems  
there.  lets all hope things smooth out even more in .1  take care, max

On Jun 23, 2010, at 4:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote:

Hi, i don't know if i'm wrong or what it is, but i don't seem to  
have any of the problems described since upgrading to Safari 5.  
Haven't run it so much on my Macbook though, so maybe the bugs are  
there. Only thing i can confirm is the bug in Ichat where you can  
see dates of chats but not the text of the message. I have tried  
both with the mouse following vo cursor and without and don't have  
any problems.

/Krister
23 jun 2010 kl. 05.32 skrev Cody Hurst:

Voiceover doesn't seem to meshw ell with facebook either. sometimes  
if I'm kicked out of the html content even if I just try to arrow  
over it and not even interact with it, voiceover crashes and  
relaunches

On Jun 22, 2010, at 6:00 PM, rayna424 wrote:


Hey all,

Haven't had any problems, so haven't needed to post. I searched to  
see

how ya'll were feeling about the latest Safari update, and it seems
I'm not alone. Safari keeps freaking out when I navigate by  
headers on

certain sites, and it's really freaking out with Blogger now. When I
interact with text, I can't use command up arrow and down arrow to  
get
from top to bottom, and when I'm interacting, it won't let me go  
line
by line in a text edit field. So the only way to edit is to go  
word by
word. Also, when I click the "select all" link for labels, Safari  
dies

and I have to restart it. Every time. So I don't do that anymore and
I've started composing blogs in text edit.

This takes me back to being afraid to install Windows updates. I'm
still using Leopard. Is anyone having problems with the latest  
Safari

in Snow?

Just had to complain. I send the error reports to Apple every time
since at least with Apple, I have faith that they are listening.

Thanks!

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sendspace problem resolved

[chad baker]

Hi my send space issue is resolved.
I had to do a physical mouse click on the trackpad.
Also i noticed in the menu there was a option that said enable voice over 
support.

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Re: Color Replacement for the Mac

[KeelhaulChris]

Thank you all for the help.

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Re: handy tech braille star 40 bluetooth pairing with iphone

[Doug Lawlor]

Hi Peter, 
I would email Apple accessibility regarding this. Include the make and model of 
the display for them so they can take a look at the problem. 

Doug

Sent from my iPhone

On 2010-06-23, at 8:03 AM, Peter Durieux  wrote:

> Hi Doug,
> 
> When I'm entering that braille section in the voice over settings, my iphone 
> keep on searching for devices but no handy tech is showing up. when I'm 
> scanning with my macbook, The Handy Tech is found.
> 
> Any future tips should be very welcome. :)
> 
> tia
> 
> -Peter
> 
> 
> Op 22-jun-2010, om 22:24 heeft Doug Lawlor het volgende geschreven:
> 
>> Hi Peter, make sure to go into Braille settings in the VoiceOver settings to 
>> pair you're display. This is not done under the Bluetooth settings.Doug 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 2010-06-22, at 4:14 PM, Peter Durieux  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> Has anyone success pairing the Handy techs Braillestar 40 with his 
>>> iphone/ipod?
>>> My Iphone seems searching , but  don't see the device.
>>> When I scan with my macbook, it was found.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions should be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> tia
>>> 
>>> -Peter
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> 
>> 
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Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.

[James Gallagher]

Hello to all on the List.

hope that all are well.

Yesterday I bought my first MacBook pro 13inch 13inch 2.66GHz (Intel Core 2 
Duo, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb 

Been using a Mac for coming up for three Years since Leopard got Braille 
support built in to it.

And a very Happy Mac user. with an iMac and three Mac Minis.

My Question and help I need is can anyone please give me any info about using 
VoiceOver Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.

I read here that many of you use podt casts to learn from others about this. 
I am a Deafblind person so these things are no good to me.

is there a good and helpful text document out there that I can read
and learn all the thinks I can do with this great little trackpad.

I would be very grateful for any info or help Please.

all the very best to you all.

Yours
James

The highest result of education is tolerance.
Hellen Keller
--
James Gallagher

A-Z to Deafblindness 
A Deafblindness Web Resource 
Learn more about Braille Chess at 
My Guide Dogs 
For the Sighted Hearing my WAP site is at 

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Re: handy tech braille star 40 bluetooth pairing with iphone

[Hai Nguyen]

Good morning Doug and anyone owning a Handy Tech Braille Display, 
I am currently in contact with Apple concerning the connectivity issues with 
Braille and IOS4. I'll report my findings as soon as I have more information.
Hai

On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:31 AM, Doug Lawlor wrote:

> Hi Peter, 
> I would email Apple accessibility regarding this. Include the make and model 
> of the display for them so they can take a look at the problem. 
> 
> Doug
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 2010-06-23, at 8:03 AM, Peter Durieux  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Doug,
>> 
>> When I'm entering that braille section in the voice over settings, my iphone 
>> keep on searching for devices but no handy tech is showing up. when I'm 
>> scanning with my macbook, The Handy Tech is found.
>> 
>> Any future tips should be very welcome. :)
>> 
>> tia
>> 
>> -Peter
>> 
>> 
>> Op 22-jun-2010, om 22:24 heeft Doug Lawlor het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>>> Hi Peter, make sure to go into Braille settings in the VoiceOver settings 
>>> to pair you're display. This is not done under the Bluetooth settings.Doug 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 2010-06-22, at 4:14 PM, Peter Durieux  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi folks,
 
 Has anyone success pairing the Handy techs Braillestar 40 with his 
 iphone/ipod?
 My Iphone seems searching , but  don't see the device.
 When I scan with my macbook, it was found.
 
 Any suggestions should be appreciated.
 
 tia
 
 -Peter
 
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Re: Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.

[Chris Moore]

The ones I know (I use my iMac more then my macbook) flick left or right to 
move back and forth.  Two fingers down swipe to read all.

3 fingers down swipe up and down to move up and down a page.  2 finger double 
tap at the bottom of the pad for the dock.  2 finger double tap at the top of 
the pad for the menu.

Use 2 fingers and turn for the rota settings.

2 finger double tap on the left middle for open applications and 2 finger 
double tap on the right middle for open windows.

Sorry to anyone in advance if I have left stuff out and made a mistake, like I 
say I have not got into gestures much yet.

Hope this helps though 

Chris 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 13:52, James Gallagher wrote:

> Hello to all on the List.
> 
> hope that all are well.
> 
> Yesterday I bought my first MacBook pro 13inch 13inch 2.66GHz (Intel Core 2 
> Duo, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb 
> 
> Been using a Mac for coming up for three Years since Leopard got Braille 
> support built in to it.
> 
> And a very Happy Mac user. with an iMac and three Mac Minis.
> 
> My Question and help I need is can anyone please give me any info about using 
> VoiceOver Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.
> 
> I read here that many of you use podt casts to learn from others about this. 
> I am a Deafblind person so these things are no good to me.
> 
> is there a good and helpful text document out there that I can read
> and learn all the thinks I can do with this great little trackpad.
> 
> I would be very grateful for any info or help Please.
> 
> all the very best to you all.
> 
> Yours
> James
> 
> The highest result of education is tolerance.
> Hellen Keller
> --
> James Gallagher
> 
> A-Z to Deafblindness 
> A Deafblindness Web Resource 
> Learn more about Braille Chess at 
> My Guide Dogs 
> For the Sighted Hearing my WAP site is at 
> 
> 
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Re: Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi,

Consult the VoiceOVer manual. They're all in there.

Regards,
Nic
Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com
Facebook
Twitter
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
Yahoo! Messenger: cin368
AIM: cincinster

On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Chris Moore wrote:

> The ones I know (I use my iMac more then my macbook) flick left or right to 
> move back and forth.  Two fingers down swipe to read all.
> 
> 3 fingers down swipe up and down to move up and down a page.  2 finger double 
> tap at the bottom of the pad for the dock.  2 finger double tap at the top of 
> the pad for the menu.
> 
> Use 2 fingers and turn for the rota settings.
> 
> 2 finger double tap on the left middle for open applications and 2 finger 
> double tap on the right middle for open windows.
> 
> Sorry to anyone in advance if I have left stuff out and made a mistake, like 
> I say I have not got into gestures much yet.
> 
> Hope this helps though 
> 
> Chris 
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 13:52, James Gallagher wrote:
> 
>> Hello to all on the List.
>> 
>> hope that all are well.
>> 
>> Yesterday I bought my first MacBook pro 13inch 13inch 2.66GHz (Intel Core 2 
>> Duo, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb 
>> 
>> Been using a Mac for coming up for three Years since Leopard got Braille 
>> support built in to it.
>> 
>> And a very Happy Mac user. with an iMac and three Mac Minis.
>> 
>> My Question and help I need is can anyone please give me any info about 
>> using VoiceOver Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.
>> 
>> I read here that many of you use podt casts to learn from others about this. 
>> I am a Deafblind person so these things are no good to me.
>> 
>> is there a good and helpful text document out there that I can read
>> and learn all the thinks I can do with this great little trackpad.
>> 
>> I would be very grateful for any info or help Please.
>> 
>> all the very best to you all.
>> 
>> Yours
>> James
>> 
>> The highest result of education is tolerance.
>> Hellen Keller
>> --
>> James Gallagher
>> 
>> A-Z to Deafblindness 
>> A Deafblindness Web Resource 
>> Learn more about Braille Chess at 
>> My Guide Dogs 
>> For the Sighted Hearing my WAP site is at 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> 
> 
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Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating by form field and text

[Robert Munro]

VO+command+e will move between controls and form fields on webpages.

On Jun 22, 2010, at 7:51 PM, Alfredo wrote:

> Tje rotor utility is not efficient enough for me, I hate to make a
> comparison but with jaws I get to a text edit field, like the google
> webpage one, automatically or by pressing the f key.  With voice over
> in safari, when I go to the google webpage I have to use the VO keys
> along with the right arrow key several times, about 4 or 5, to get to
> the text edit field.  The safari way requires more key strokes, if I
> could remove key strokes then better.  I could use the web item rotor
> and the fo to forms, and then the text edit field but I think this
> requires the same number of keystrokes.  Maybe as I get used to the
> mac I will get better and be able to find a wayt o do this.  I will
> try grouping mode to see if this helps.  Should the voice over cursor
> be focus on the google search field when i load the google web page?
> It does on other pages, like the gmail web page.  Maybe if I turn off
> automatic speaking of webpages when they load.  Thank for clarifying
> the thing about the multiple tabs, I search online, on google, and
> only found one solution for this, and i think it was becuase of safari
> 5 extensions, whcih I currently do not have.  With everyone saying
> that it caused them trouble I will stay away from it for another month
> or so.  Thanks again for the response.
> alfredo
> 
> Chris Moore wrote:
>> Is the form item in the rota not efficient enough for you? (you can create a 
>> short cut to toggle between DOM and group mode)
>> as for text elements , have you tried surfing in grouping mode?when you 
>> mention tabs, do you mean they are automatically open with the web pages 
>> loaded of your choice?  Not that I am aware of maybe as Safari 5 has been 
>> opened up someone might develop an add on.  for now you will have to press 
>> command + T for a new tab. and then use control + tab to cycle through them.
>> On 22 Jun 2010, at 18:08, Alfredo wrote:
>> 
>>> I am going through the online tutorial with voice over and am hitting
>>> some bumps in the way.
>>> 1.  Can you navigate the web by form field like in jaws?  In jaws you
>>> just clicked the “f” key and you would land on a form field, such as
>>> an edit box, radio button, or button.
>>> 2.  Is there a way to navigate text element by text element, sometimes
>>> it would be useful just to get to the text section of a webpage,
>>> especially ones that contain many links.  Is there a hot key to
>>> navigate text element by text element on the web?
>>> 3.  I was reading the select multiple items section and tried it on
>>> the Voice over utilities, VO + F8, and went into his web section, and
>>> went to the web rotor popup menu.  I wanted to select multiple items
>>> or deselect multiple items but I could not.  Plus VO does not tell you
>>> if the checkbox on the popup menu is on or off, even when I pressed VO
>>> + f8.  Can anyone shine a light on this?  I can live with having to
>>> close the menu for every selected Item I want but it would be more
>>> convenient to just select all items I want then close the popup
>>> menu.
>>> 4.  Is there a way to set up multiple tabs upon starting safari?  I
>>> had multiple tabs for my internet explorer on windows since this way I
>>> have quick access to my bank account webpage, phone bill web page,
>>> Google search, Gmail, NFL website, book share, and others.  Does
>>> anyone know how to do this?
>>> 6.  Is there a way to activate a link from within the web item rotor?
>>> Like for example, instead of just going to the link selected from the
>>> web item rotor can I activate that link so that the web page will load
>>> up auto magically?  This would save me on more steps in selecting the
>>> link.  If there is no way to do this, then I will send an email to
>>> apple suggesting that they add this feature.  The can do like, if you
>>> press the control key while selecting a link on the web item rotor you
>>> will activate the like not only go to it.
>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated; the Mac experience is going
>>> good so far
>>> 
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>>> 
> 
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Needing help with Itunes radio

[Courtney Curran]

Hi,
I'm trying to look for a station in the Itunes Radio selection, but when I go 
to a genre, they're all collaps and I can't expand them. Any help would be 
greatly appreciated.
Courtney

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Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating by form field and text

[Ricardo Walker]

NO,

This is VO command J.  VO command E brings you to the next misspelled word.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Robert Munro wrote:

> VO+command+e will move between controls and form fields on webpages.
> 
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 7:51 PM, Alfredo wrote:
> 
>> Tje rotor utility is not efficient enough for me, I hate to make a
>> comparison but with jaws I get to a text edit field, like the google
>> webpage one, automatically or by pressing the f key.  With voice over
>> in safari, when I go to the google webpage I have to use the VO keys
>> along with the right arrow key several times, about 4 or 5, to get to
>> the text edit field.  The safari way requires more key strokes, if I
>> could remove key strokes then better.  I could use the web item rotor
>> and the fo to forms, and then the text edit field but I think this
>> requires the same number of keystrokes.  Maybe as I get used to the
>> mac I will get better and be able to find a wayt o do this.  I will
>> try grouping mode to see if this helps.  Should the voice over cursor
>> be focus on the google search field when i load the google web page?
>> It does on other pages, like the gmail web page.  Maybe if I turn off
>> automatic speaking of webpages when they load.  Thank for clarifying
>> the thing about the multiple tabs, I search online, on google, and
>> only found one solution for this, and i think it was becuase of safari
>> 5 extensions, whcih I currently do not have.  With everyone saying
>> that it caused them trouble I will stay away from it for another month
>> or so.  Thanks again for the response.
>> alfredo
>> 
>> Chris Moore wrote:
>>> Is the form item in the rota not efficient enough for you? (you can create 
>>> a short cut to toggle between DOM and group mode)
>>> as for text elements , have you tried surfing in grouping mode?when you 
>>> mention tabs, do you mean they are automatically open with the web pages 
>>> loaded of your choice?  Not that I am aware of maybe as Safari 5 has been 
>>> opened up someone might develop an add on.  for now you will have to press 
>>> command + T for a new tab. and then use control + tab to cycle through them.
>>> On 22 Jun 2010, at 18:08, Alfredo wrote:
>>> 
 I am going through the online tutorial with voice over and am hitting
 some bumps in the way.
 1.  Can you navigate the web by form field like in jaws?  In jaws you
 just clicked the “f” key and you would land on a form field, such as
 an edit box, radio button, or button.
 2.  Is there a way to navigate text element by text element, sometimes
 it would be useful just to get to the text section of a webpage,
 especially ones that contain many links.  Is there a hot key to
 navigate text element by text element on the web?
 3.  I was reading the select multiple items section and tried it on
 the Voice over utilities, VO + F8, and went into his web section, and
 went to the web rotor popup menu.  I wanted to select multiple items
 or deselect multiple items but I could not.  Plus VO does not tell you
 if the checkbox on the popup menu is on or off, even when I pressed VO
 + f8.  Can anyone shine a light on this?  I can live with having to
 close the menu for every selected Item I want but it would be more
 convenient to just select all items I want then close the popup
 menu.
 4.  Is there a way to set up multiple tabs upon starting safari?  I
 had multiple tabs for my internet explorer on windows since this way I
 have quick access to my bank account webpage, phone bill web page,
 Google search, Gmail, NFL website, book share, and others.  Does
 anyone know how to do this?
 6.  Is there a way to activate a link from within the web item rotor?
 Like for example, instead of just going to the link selected from the
 web item rotor can I activate that link so that the web page will load
 up auto magically?  This would save me on more steps in selecting the
 link.  If there is no way to do this, then I will send an email to
 apple suggesting that they add this feature.  The can do like, if you
 press the control key while selecting a link on the web item rotor you
 will activate the like not only go to it.
 Any help would be greatly appreciated; the Mac experience is going
 good so far
 
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>> 
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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:

> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
> here, are Mac-based. 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
> wrote:
> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
> 
> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen reader 
> company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems got 
> shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might 
> like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines 
> for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
> 
> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
> > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
> > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
> > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
> > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
> > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
> > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
> > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
> > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
> > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
> > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
> > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
> > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
> > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
> > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
> > Anchorage, Alaska.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
> >
> > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
> > have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
> > I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
> > secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
> > FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
> > market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
> > that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
> > ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
> > ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
> > of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
> > by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
> > deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
> > anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
> > a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
> > robotic.  Tell me that's not ridiculous?  I don't know that agencies
> > are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our
> > needs that somebody will buy it.  Not me.  Granted, if more people
> > were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with
> > macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things
> > might come down a bit.  That's great about the scanner.  I'd better
> > stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing
> > correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault.
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
> >
> >> With all due respect, that argument has been used time and time
> >> again.  To that, I say this: the best example of a product that has
> >> gone down in price because of the acceptance of it by the sighted
> >> community, is the optical scanner, which was originally intended for
> >

Copying and pasting in Mail

[Michael Busboom]

Hello listers,

I've had so much success getting helpful information from this list that I 
couldn't resist asking a couple more questions.  :)

For reasons I do not understand, I am unable to copy information from one 
message in Mail and paste it into another message I am currently creating.  The 
way I get around the problem is to open an empty document and copy and paste 
from one message to another by using the empty document as an interim storage 
medium.  However, I can't help thinking that there is an easier way.

Do I need to stop interacting with text or do something else to make copying 
and pasting work in Mail?  I am using Command-C and Command-V for copying and 
pasting respectively.  I know that material has been selected, so this is not 
where the problem lies.

2.  Is there any way in Mail to turn of the "Data Detector Present" message?

Thanks so much,

Mike

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Re: Needing help with Itunes radio

[Teresa Cochran]

Hi, Courtney,

Try VO-\ when you're on a genre category.

HTH,
Teresa
On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Courtney Curran wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm trying to look for a station in the Itunes Radio selection, but when I go 
> to a genre, they're all collaps and I can't expand them. Any help would be 
> greatly appreciated.
> Courtney
> 
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Re: Is there a way to map keys to other keys on Mac?

[louie]

Yes
On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:


Is spark accessible with VO?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of louie
Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 3:53 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Is there a way to map keys to other keys on Mac?

There is spark for the Mac.

On Jun 21, 2010, at 8:55 PM, Alfredo wrote:


I have a 13" mac book pro, and hence the keys it contains are limited
and would like to know if there is a utility or way to map soem keys
to other keys such as when you use spark on windows.  I want to map  
my

right command key to an option key, and my right option key to a
control key so that I can use VO keys on both sides.  Currently the
mac book pro, only has the command and option keys on the right side
of the key board whcih prevents me from executing some voice over  
keys

easily.  Any suggestions or help will be greatly appreciated.
Alfredo

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louie
louiem...@wavecable.com



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Re: Copying and pasting in Mail

[Teresa Cochran]

You can use the commands for selecting text while in a message, 
(option-shift-arrows for words, command-shift-arrows for larger chunks of 
text), press command-c, navigate to another message, and use command-v to 
paste. I've been doing this in the preview pane. You can press command-1 while 
inside an open message to switch to the message list and then paste into a new 
message.

Teresa
On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Michael Busboom wrote:

> Hello listers,
> 
> I've had so much success getting helpful information from this list that I 
> couldn't resist asking a couple more questions.  :)
> 
> For reasons I do not understand, I am unable to copy information from one 
> message in Mail and paste it into another message I am currently creating.  
> The way I get around the problem is to open an empty document and copy and 
> paste from one message to another by using the empty document as an interim 
> storage medium.  However, I can't help thinking that there is an easier way.
> 
> Do I need to stop interacting with text or do something else to make copying 
> and pasting work in Mail?  I am using Command-C and Command-V for copying and 
> pasting respectively.  I know that material has been selected, so this is not 
> where the problem lies.
> 
> 2.  Is there any way in Mail to turn of the "Data Detector Present" message?
> 
> Thanks so much,
> 
> Mike
> 
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Re: reading a long pdf: vo vs spoken word in itunes

[Mary Otten]

Simon, Ibooks is for ebooks in the epub format and it will also read pdfs.

Mary

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RE: Economics and the Mac

[Bryan Smart]

That's great, but they are anomalies.

I currently live in South Carolina. One of my income sources involves taking AT 
training contracts from school systems. I'm one of the few people around here 
that is setup to train on VoiceOver. The main reason for me being so unique in 
that regard is there are practically no clients, and so I'm the only one that 
bothers with it. Not one school system in South Carolina uses Macs. No school 
systems in Georgia use Macs. In North Carolina, a few Macs are present, at a 
few schools, for special labs/projects. I've been told recently that Florida, 
also, doesn't use any Macs, though I don't work there, so don't claim to know 
the purchasing decisions and politics. What the schools have, though, are 
thousands and thousands of Windows-based PCs, and over 90% of the ones that are 
adapted for a blind student use Jaws.

I'm sure any number of people, particularly on a list like this, can pipe up 
and say "well, I know of a school district around where I live that has or uses 
some Macs". Those are special cases, though. The country is huge, and places 
like that are rare when you realize how every place else is swimming in Windows 
PCs. A single school district can own thousands of them.

When our blind services undertakes projects to train and place the general 
blind population in to jobs, it always involves call center or office work, and 
Macs are no where to be found.

Our Commission for the Blind just recently bought their first Mac, ever, for 
someone that needed it for a home-based business. That means, of all the blind 
people that they've ever served, they've purchased thousands of Windows 
computers, but never a Mac, and, when a person got one, it was for something 
they were doing on their own, not mainstreamed. I was contacted because I was 
someone that knows something about Macs. Most of the AT and IT people there 
don't know anything about Macs, because they don't have to; they're neither 
needed, nor requested.

Obviously, I like my Mac. Don't be fooled though. Just because some schools 
here or there might use them, their use in schools over-all is a drop in the 
bucket. There use in business is practically nonexistent. The blindness 
agencies are concerned with getting blind people employed and/or educated. 
Finding a Mac in either school or work is a rare event, so, Macs are irrelevant 
to them. That's why the NFB and the screen reader manufacturers didn't care 
that Apple worked on a screen reader. In there minds, Apple can make the best 
one in the world, and it won't matter, because all of the edutainment and 
business applications that are used by the mainstream world are on Windows, so 
blind people will need Windows for school and work, so Windows-based screen 
readers will be necessary. It isn't about which is better.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Rob Lambert
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac

In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high school's 
library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around here, are 
Mac-based.


On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  wrote:


Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.

I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems 
got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might 
like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines 
for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.

Bryan


On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:

> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
> it's worth, the

Repost of Amadeus podcast

[Allison Manzino]

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you know that the Amadeus podcast has been reposted. Ialso 
explore the free audio and VST plugins available on the Amadeus site. TO listen 
or subscribe just go to:
http://gwenna.podbean.com

Allison

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What view to you use on the finder and which is easier for beginner?

[Alfredo]

I use the list view on my windows pc using jaws, and would like to use
the same view on the mac but i want to know which one you guys think
is easier for beginners and better for a voice over user?  What is the
difference between list view and column view, I do not understand what
is the difference, seems like the difference is just that with list
view you have to use the vo keys and the backslash, while with the
column view you do not use these.  Is the cover flow view accesible or
even functional for a blind user to view.  I like the idea of being
able to preview my documents but can I use it?
Any opinion would be grealty appreciated.
alfredo

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Re: What view to you use on the finder and which is easier for beginner?

[Cody Hurst]

the icon view is like the same thing on the windows side list view because the 
list view in windows isn't really  is actually more like the icon view.

hth
Cody
On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:59 PM, Alfredo wrote:

> I use the list view on my windows pc using jaws, and would like to use
> the same view on the mac but i want to know which one you guys think
> is easier for beginners and better for a voice over user?  What is the
> difference between list view and column view, I do not understand what
> is the difference, seems like the difference is just that with list
> view you have to use the vo keys and the backslash, while with the
> column view you do not use these.  Is the cover flow view accesible or
> even functional for a blind user to view.  I like the idea of being
> able to preview my documents but can I use it?
> Any opinion would be grealty appreciated.
> alfredo
> 
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Re: What view to you use on the finder and which is easier for beginner?

[Chris Moore]

I use list view as its much easier, just press command + 2 to switch to view 
mode.  Even when I was sighted I did not care much for list  or icon  grid 
mode, list is a bit like scrolling horizontal level of floors a bit like going 
up and down levels in a elevator but you can see more then one level at a time. 
 Just use quick view to preview your documents by hitting space.  

However if you do have some useful vision then cover flow is useful, especially 
when flicking through pictures and pdfs 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 18:59, Alfredo wrote:

> I use the list view on my windows pc using jaws, and would like to use
> the same view on the mac but i want to know which one you guys think
> is easier for beginners and better for a voice over user?  What is the
> difference between list view and column view, I do not understand what
> is the difference, seems like the difference is just that with list
> view you have to use the vo keys and the backslash, while with the
> column view you do not use these.  Is the cover flow view accesible or
> even functional for a blind user to view.  I like the idea of being
> able to preview my documents but can I use it?
> Any opinion would be grealty appreciated.
> alfredo
> 
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> 


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Re: What view to you use on the finder and which is easier for beginner?

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I like column view.  I just find it quick and easy to get in and out of folders 
just using the arrows.

hth 
On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:59 PM, Alfredo wrote:

> I use the list view on my windows pc using jaws, and would like to use
> the same view on the mac but i want to know which one you guys think
> is easier for beginners and better for a voice over user?  What is the
> difference between list view and column view, I do not understand what
> is the difference, seems like the difference is just that with list
> view you have to use the vo keys and the backslash, while with the
> column view you do not use these.  Is the cover flow view accesible or
> even functional for a blind user to view.  I like the idea of being
> able to preview my documents but can I use it?
> Any opinion would be grealty appreciated.
> alfredo
> 
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Re: What view to you use on the finder and which is easier for beginner?

[Dónal Fitzpatrick]

I'm with Ricardo on this one, and for exactly the same reasons.  However, I 
would be surprised that, given the diversity of people/opinion on this list if 
you don't get an advocate for all of the provided views.

Cheers

Dónal
On 23 Jun 2010, at 19:15, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I like column view.  I just find it quick and easy to get in and out of 
> folders just using the arrows.
> 
> hth 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:59 PM, Alfredo wrote:
> 
>> I use the list view on my windows pc using jaws, and would like to use
>> the same view on the mac but i want to know which one you guys think
>> is easier for beginners and better for a voice over user?  What is the
>> difference between list view and column view, I do not understand what
>> is the difference, seems like the difference is just that with list
>> view you have to use the vo keys and the backslash, while with the
>> column view you do not use these.  Is the cover flow view accesible or
>> even functional for a blind user to view.  I like the idea of being
>> able to preview my documents but can I use it?
>> Any opinion would be grealty appreciated.
>> alfredo
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
> 
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Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating by form field and text

[Thierry Renoux]

How about option tab? Is it different from VO command  J? I'll have to check.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> NO,
> 
> This is VO command J.  VO command E brings you to the next misspelled word.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:09 AM, Robert Munro wrote:
> 
>> VO+command+e will move between controls and form fields on webpages.
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 7:51 PM, Alfredo wrote:
>> 
>>> Tje rotor utility is not efficient enough for me, I hate to make a
>>> comparison but with jaws I get to a text edit field, like the google
>>> webpage one, automatically or by pressing the f key.  With voice over
>>> in safari, when I go to the google webpage I have to use the VO keys
>>> along with the right arrow key several times, about 4 or 5, to get to
>>> the text edit field.  The safari way requires more key strokes, if I
>>> could remove key strokes then better.  I could use the web item rotor
>>> and the fo to forms, and then the text edit field but I think this
>>> requires the same number of keystrokes.  Maybe as I get used to the
>>> mac I will get better and be able to find a wayt o do this.  I will
>>> try grouping mode to see if this helps.  Should the voice over cursor
>>> be focus on the google search field when i load the google web page?
>>> It does on other pages, like the gmail web page.  Maybe if I turn off
>>> automatic speaking of webpages when they load.  Thank for clarifying
>>> the thing about the multiple tabs, I search online, on google, and
>>> only found one solution for this, and i think it was becuase of safari
>>> 5 extensions, whcih I currently do not have.  With everyone saying
>>> that it caused them trouble I will stay away from it for another month
>>> or so.  Thanks again for the response.
>>> alfredo
>>> 
>>> Chris Moore wrote:
 Is the form item in the rota not efficient enough for you? (you can create 
 a short cut to toggle between DOM and group mode)
 as for text elements , have you tried surfing in grouping mode?when you 
 mention tabs, do you mean they are automatically open with the web pages 
 loaded of your choice?  Not that I am aware of maybe as Safari 5 has been 
 opened up someone might develop an add on.  for now you will have to press 
 command + T for a new tab. and then use control + tab to cycle through 
 them.
 On 22 Jun 2010, at 18:08, Alfredo wrote:
 
> I am going through the online tutorial with voice over and am hitting
> some bumps in the way.
> 1.  Can you navigate the web by form field like in jaws?  In jaws you
> just clicked the “f” key and you would land on a form field, such as
> an edit box, radio button, or button.
> 2.  Is there a way to navigate text element by text element, sometimes
> it would be useful just to get to the text section of a webpage,
> especially ones that contain many links.  Is there a hot key to
> navigate text element by text element on the web?
> 3.  I was reading the select multiple items section and tried it on
> the Voice over utilities, VO + F8, and went into his web section, and
> went to the web rotor popup menu.  I wanted to select multiple items
> or deselect multiple items but I could not.  Plus VO does not tell you
> if the checkbox on the popup menu is on or off, even when I pressed VO
> + f8.  Can anyone shine a light on this?  I can live with having to
> close the menu for every selected Item I want but it would be more
> convenient to just select all items I want then close the popup
> menu.
> 4.  Is there a way to set up multiple tabs upon starting safari?  I
> had multiple tabs for my internet explorer on windows since this way I
> have quick access to my bank account webpage, phone bill web page,
> Google search, Gmail, NFL website, book share, and others.  Does
> anyone know how to do this?
> 6.  Is there a way to activate a link from within the web item rotor?
> Like for example, instead of just going to the link selected from the
> web item rotor can I activate that link so that the web page will load
> up auto magically?  This would save me on more steps in selecting the
> link.  If there is no way to do this, then I will send an email to
> apple suggesting that they add this feature.  The can do like, if you
> press the control key while selecting a link on the web item rotor you
> will activate the like not only go to it.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated; the Mac experience is going
> good so far
> 
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> 
>>> 
>>> --

I can't figure out how to update my Ipod Touch

[Courtney Curran]

Hi
I can't figure out how to update my Ipod touch. Whenever I press check for 
software updat, a file selection menu comes up. And when I press restore, it 
tells me I have to reinstall Itunes. I need some help please.
Courtney

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Re: I can't figure out how to update my Ipod Touch

[Sarah Alawami]

Just  connect your ipod to the computer and run itunes. Now from the summary 
tab of settings hit check for updates and follow the prompts. You should not 
need to restore itunes. I hope?
On Jun 23, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Courtney Curran wrote:

> Hi
> I can't figure out how to update my Ipod touch. Whenever I press check for 
> software updat, a file selection menu comes up. And when I press restore, it 
> tells me I have to reinstall Itunes. I need some help please.
> Courtney
> 
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> 

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Re: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app

[Sarah Alawami]

No. You double tap and hold until you hear the word move then double click the 
app to del.

S
On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:51 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

> Does that work also with applications?
> 
> I've been trying to remove an application I no longer want  from my IPod
> but I've had no luck with it. I wonder now if this will work.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 9:14 a.m.
> To: mac vissionaries vissionaries
> Subject: tip: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app
> 
> Ok all. Here is my method of deleting podcasts on the iphone. Not sure where
> else this works in the ipod app but yeah.
> 
> 1. from within the ipod app navigate to the podcast  button and double tap.
> 
> 2. Now browse to the podcast such as  market place, or car talk for example.
> 
> 3. find the episode you want to delete, double tap and hold then swipe very
> slowly to the right. it should take you no more then 2 seconds to do this.
> Now check and it should say confirm deletion of xxx where xxx is
> your episode name.
> 
> 4. double tap that episode and it is gone.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
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Re: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app

[Sarah Alawami]

Huh? all of this was done on the iphone. this has nothing to do with the mac at 
all.

S
On Jun 23, 2010, at 4:29 AM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:

> i had this happen on my mac the other day and had to go to utilities and then 
> to activitiy monitor to turn the
> program off before i could remove it and then eventually send it to the 
> trash.  hope that helps, max On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:51 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
> 
>> Does that work also with applications?
>> 
>> I've been trying to remove an application I no longer want  from my IPod
>> but I've had no luck with it. I wonder now if this will work.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 9:14 a.m.
>> To: mac vissionaries vissionaries
>> Subject: tip: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app
>> 
>> Ok all. Here is my method of deleting podcasts on the iphone. Not sure where
>> else this works in the ipod app but yeah.
>> 
>> 1. from within the ipod app navigate to the podcast  button and double tap.
>> 
>> 2. Now browse to the podcast such as  market place, or car talk for example.
>> 
>> 3. find the episode you want to delete, double tap and hold then swipe very
>> slowly to the right. it should take you no more then 2 seconds to do this.
>> Now check and it should say confirm deletion of xxx where xxx is
>> your episode name.
>> 
>> 4. double tap that episode and it is gone.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: sendspace app

[Sarah Alawami]

actually there is input but it won't show. Just input your data and hit log in.

Good luck.

S
On Jun 23, 2010, at 2:21 AM, chad baker wrote:

> Hi just downloaded sendspace and can't input my user name and password.
> When i type nothing gets put in the field.
> I made sure the edit field had focus.
> any suggestions
> thanks
> 
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Re: amadeus question

[Sarah Alawami]

I think you hit shift space to play sepratly but I can't remember what the mac 
accessibility blog said about that.
On Jun 22, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Hi Allison and Sarah,
> Thanks very much for your help. Your tips really helped me take off, and now 
> I feel fairly confident with multi-track navigation. I guess the question I 
> must figure out now is how to reliably play both tracks at the same time, and 
> how to play separately. From what I've been able to determine, it's kind of a 
> gamble as to which will occur. Still, this is a remarkable breakthrough. A 
> multi-track editor which doesn't cost hundreds or thousands of dollars that's 
> accessible. Oh, and the free VST effects that the guy has on his site are 
> accessible as well and very cool. The reverb is rather impressive. I've 
> worked with waves reverb in both PT and Goldwave, and I think these reverbs 
> are very good indeed.
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> I believe you ahve to hit esc after you get to the track you want. Kind of 
>> clunky but it works.
>> 
>> S
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Allison Manzino wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I'm so excited another Amadeus convert :)  there is a slight delay when 
>>> recording with Amadeus, I have no idea why. It's tricky to get used to. 
>>> Sometimes, I make sure the mic is working correctly and just uncheck the 
>>> play through box before I record a vocal. Yes, there is a way to move 
>>> between tracks and mix etc. You have given me more incentive to do a 
>>> podcast on it. I will provide the link to the list when it's done, as a 
>>> reference. I'm learning right along with everyone else, so it's not going 
>>> to be a definitive podcast.,  Aside from Erik Caron's podcast on Blind Cool 
>>> Tech, all the things I've learned about Amadeus have been trial and error. 
>>> To move between tracks, press VO shift down arrow and interact with the 
>>> scroll area. It will take you to the track name where you can type in a 
>>> name, and then if you VO right arrow the volume slider, etc. I hope that 
>>> helps. Have a great day!
>>> 
>>> Allison
>>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>>> 
 Hi fellow Amadeus users,
 I have just bought the program, and I managed to record a song with it. It 
 was a bit tricky since I had to hand sync the vocal track with the 
 instrumental track. The two questions I have are:
 1. Is there a way to move between tracks with voiceover in a multi-track 
 project?
 2. If you select the pass through box in the record dialog, why is there a 
 delay on the output?
 My first thought was that it had something to do with the sound card in my 
 macbook, but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced that.
 Over all, I have to say I'm very pleased at how well voiceover handles 
 Amadeus, and I'm becoming more and more comfortable using it in stead of 
 Gold Wave.
 
 Friendly,
 Chris
 
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>>> 
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Re: amadeus question

[Sarah Alawami]

Did you yet find a way to ex[ort all of those tracks sepratly? Sorry fi I keep 
asking but I'm working on an outboard project for someone

S
On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:12 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> I'm so glad I was able to help you. I'm rerecording my podcast tomorrow as 
> you can't hear the track I'm working on in Amadeus. I didn't realize that 
> Audio Hijack didn't pick up what Amadeus was playing. I have to check out the 
> VST reverb plug in, I didn't know about that. To play each track separately, 
> I'd suggest naming them first. For example if you were to record guitar on 
> one track, and vocals on another track. Interact with the scroll area and 
> name the first track, then name the second track. After you do that you can 
> check or uncheck the play boxes. Let's say you want to put reverb on the 
> vocals, and not hear the guitar part. You just uncheck the play box and then 
> only the vocal track will receive the reverb. I have also discovered a nifty 
> feature called duplicate track. This is done by hitting command D as in 
> Delta. It works really well for putting guitar on left and right sides and 
> making a fuller sound. I hope I've helped. I love Amadeus and I agree with 
> you, an accessible multitrack editor that doesn't cost thousands yay! Have a 
> great evening.
> 
> Allison
> 
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> 
>> Hi Allison and Sarah,
>> Thanks very much for your help. Your tips really helped me take off, and now 
>> I feel fairly confident with multi-track navigation. I guess the question I 
>> must figure out now is how to reliably play both tracks at the same time, 
>> and how to play separately. From what I've been able to determine, it's kind 
>> of a gamble as to which will occur. Still, this is a remarkable 
>> breakthrough. A multi-track editor which doesn't cost hundreds or thousands 
>> of dollars that's accessible. Oh, and the free VST effects that the guy has 
>> on his site are accessible as well and very cool. The reverb is rather 
>> impressive. I've worked with waves reverb in both PT and Goldwave, and I 
>> think these reverbs are very good indeed.
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> 
>>> I believe you ahve to hit esc after you get to the track you want. Kind of 
>>> clunky but it works.
>>> 
>>> S
>>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Allison Manzino wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Chris,
 
 I'm so excited another Amadeus convert :)  there is a slight delay when 
 recording with Amadeus, I have no idea why. It's tricky to get used to. 
 Sometimes, I make sure the mic is working correctly and just uncheck the 
 play through box before I record a vocal. Yes, there is a way to move 
 between tracks and mix etc. You have given me more incentive to do a 
 podcast on it. I will provide the link to the list when it's done, as a 
 reference. I'm learning right along with everyone else, so it's not going 
 to be a definitive podcast.,  Aside from Erik Caron's podcast on Blind 
 Cool Tech, all the things I've learned about Amadeus have been trial and 
 error. To move between tracks, press VO shift down arrow and interact with 
 the scroll area. It will take you to the track name where you can type in 
 a name, and then if you VO right arrow the volume slider, etc. I hope that 
 helps. Have a great day!
 
 Allison
 
 On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
 
> Hi fellow Amadeus users,
> I have just bought the program, and I managed to record a song with it. 
> It was a bit tricky since I had to hand sync the vocal track with the 
> instrumental track. The two questions I have are:
> 1. Is there a way to move between tracks with voiceover in a multi-track 
> project?
> 2. If you select the pass through box in the record dialog, why is there 
> a delay on the output?
> My first thought was that it had something to do with the sound card in 
> my macbook, but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced that.
> Over all, I have to say I'm very pleased at how well voiceover handles 
> Amadeus, and I'm becoming more and more comfortable using it in stead of 
> Gold Wave.
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
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 macvisio

Re: tip: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app

[Joel Zimba]

Hi,

Well,  I can successfully delete a podcast from ipod.  I would love to be able 
to do the swipe for the deletion of mail messages.  I hear this is a feature 
available without vo.

I tried the same thing as described for ipod, and nothing seemed to happen.  
after doing it several times, a "done" button appeared.  I clicked it and 
nothing seemed to change.

thoughts?


On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:14 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> Ok all. Here is my method of deleting podcasts on the iphone. Not sure where 
> else this works in the ipod app but yeah.
> 
> 1. from within the ipod app navigate to the podcast  button and double tap.
> 
> 2. Now browse to the podcast such as  market place, or car talk for example.
> 
> 3. find the episode you want to delete, double tap and hold then swipe very 
> slowly to the right. it should take you no more then 2 seconds to do this. 
> Now check and it should say confirm deletion of xxx where xxx is your 
> episode name.
> 
> 4. double tap that episode and it is gone.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Chris Snyder]

Hmm, The school system here in Arizona has always dealt with Apple. When I was 
little, we had Apple 2E and 2GS computers, and when I got to high school, we 
had the mac SE and other models. Now that my own children are in school, 
they're learning on iMacs. Apple has always been involved with k-12 education 
here. It's actually rather nice since I can help the kids with their computer 
classes on the Mac.
As far as the libraries around town go, they're all PC based, especially in the 
adaptive technology rooms where they keep the braille writers and scanners and 
such. 
As far as Microsoft trying to make a screen reader is concerned, once again, 
the NFB shoots blind people without state help in the foot yet again. I would 
always would rather not pay extra for adaptive tech, and indeed it's why I got 
rid of all but one of the PC's in the house.
The more I see of the iPhone, the more excited I get over it, and the more I 
actually consider switching to AT&T's evil empire.
Anyway, just my two cents.

Friendly,
Chris

On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
> 
>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>> here, are Mac-based. 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>> wrote:
>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>> 
>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen reader 
>> company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems got 
>> shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might 
>> like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines 
>> for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>> 
>> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>> > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>> > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>> > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>> > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>> > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>> > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>> > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>> > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>> > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>> > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>> > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>> > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>> > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>> > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>> > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>> > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>> > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>> > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>> > Anchorage, Alaska.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>> >
>> > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
>> > have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
>> > I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
>> > secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
>> > FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
>> > market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
>> > that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
>> > ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
>> > ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
>> > of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
>> > by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big

A Question Regarding Braille Display

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,  

Given the new iBook resource, I have decided to purchase a Bluetooth Braille
display.  

Question:  Is the Freedom Scientific Focus 40 Blue fully supported by Apple?


Thank you,

Mark


ANNOUNCING THE SECRET LIFE OF MARK MARCUS LIVE CALL-IN TALK SHOW!!!
In each episode, join Mark, along with invited guests, as he explores the
world in which we live and the world which lives within us.  As you listen
or participate in a family-friendly, no-holds-barred discussion, you will
find yourself being drawn deeper and deeper into the mystery, majesty, and
wonder that is The Secret Life of Mark Marcus.

You can listen and participate via telephone, an Internet-enabled computer,
or Smartphone application.  No need to sign up on a website or be required
to enter any pin codes.  Just join in and let your voice be heard around the
world.  To listen or participate via phone just dial (724-898-1193 during
the show's scheduled time.  That's all there is to it.  

Sign Up To Receive Text-Message Alerts When The Show Is Live!!

Can't listen live?  No problem, download/listen to past episodes on demand,
at your convenience.  For more information including an audio PROMO for the
next scheduled episode, show times, the ability to listen or participate via
computer and more, go to:
http://candleshore.com/secrets
Let's Make A Joyful Noise, Together!!!

"Express yourself completely, then keep quiet."
"He who stands on tiptoe doesn't stand firm.  She who rushes ahead doesn't
go far.  He who tries to shine dims his own light.  She who defines herself
can't know who she really is.  He who has power over others can't empower
himself.  She who clings to her work will create nothing that endures."
(Lao Tzu)

For infinite knowledge, go to:
candleshoreblog.com

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A Question for Fusion Windows 7 With Jaws Users

[M. Taylor]

Question:

I'm just curious, what is your solution for gaining access to the Jaws
cursor?  That is to say, what key combination do you use to switch between
the Jaws and PC cursors?  

Thank you,

Mark


ANNOUNCING THE SECRET LIFE OF MARK MARCUS LIVE CALL-IN TALK SHOW!!!
In each episode, join Mark, along with invited guests, as he explores the
world in which we live and the world which lives within us.  As you listen
or participate in a family-friendly, no-holds-barred discussion, you will
find yourself being drawn deeper and deeper into the mystery, majesty, and
wonder that is The Secret Life of Mark Marcus.

You can listen and participate via telephone, an Internet-enabled computer,
or Smartphone application.  No need to sign up on a website or be required
to enter any pin codes.  Just join in and let your voice be heard around the
world.  To listen or participate via phone just dial (724-898-1193 during
the show's scheduled time.  That's all there is to it.  

Sign Up To Receive Text-Message Alerts When The Show Is Live!!

Can't listen live?  No problem, download/listen to past episodes on demand,
at your convenience.  For more information including an audio PROMO for the
next scheduled episode, show times, the ability to listen or participate via
computer and more, go to:
http://candleshore.com/secrets
Let's Make A Joyful Noise, Together!!!

"Express yourself completely, then keep quiet."
"He who stands on tiptoe doesn't stand firm.  She who rushes ahead doesn't
go far.  He who tries to shine dims his own light.  She who defines herself
can't know who she really is.  He who has power over others can't empower
himself.  She who clings to her work will create nothing that endures."
(Lao Tzu)

For infinite knowledge, go to:
candleshoreblog.com


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Re: tip: how I delete podcasts from the ipod app

[Sarah Alawami]

Hmm I dunno. I can't del messages at all using vo. the button is just not there 
but maybe suggest this to apple.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Joel Zimba wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Well,  I can successfully delete a podcast from ipod.  I would love to be 
> able to do the swipe for the deletion of mail messages.  I hear this is a 
> feature available without vo.
> 
> I tried the same thing as described for ipod, and nothing seemed to happen.  
> after doing it several times, a "done" button appeared.  I clicked it and 
> nothing seemed to change.
> 
> thoughts?
> 
> 
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:14 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> Ok all. Here is my method of deleting podcasts on the iphone. Not sure where 
>> else this works in the ipod app but yeah.
>> 
>> 1. from within the ipod app navigate to the podcast  button and double tap.
>> 
>> 2. Now browse to the podcast such as  market place, or car talk for example.
>> 
>> 3. find the episode you want to delete, double tap and hold then swipe very 
>> slowly to the right. it should take you no more then 2 seconds to do this. 
>> Now check and it should say confirm deletion of xxx where xxx is 
>> your episode name.
>> 
>> 4. double tap that episode and it is gone.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: A Question Regarding Braille Display

[Teresa Cochran]

According to the online help, yes, it is. I just ordered the same display and 
therefore haven't used it yet, so I'm crossing my fingers. :)

Teresa
On Jun 23, 2010, at 12:53 PM, M. Taylor wrote:

> Hello Everyone,  
> 
> Given the new iBook resource, I have decided to purchase a Bluetooth Braille
> display.  
> 
> Question:  Is the Freedom Scientific Focus 40 Blue fully supported by Apple?
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> ANNOUNCING THE SECRET LIFE OF MARK MARCUS LIVE CALL-IN TALK SHOW!!!
> In each episode, join Mark, along with invited guests, as he explores the
> world in which we live and the world which lives within us.  As you listen
> or participate in a family-friendly, no-holds-barred discussion, you will
> find yourself being drawn deeper and deeper into the mystery, majesty, and
> wonder that is The Secret Life of Mark Marcus.
> 
> You can listen and participate via telephone, an Internet-enabled computer,
> or Smartphone application.  No need to sign up on a website or be required
> to enter any pin codes.  Just join in and let your voice be heard around the
> world.  To listen or participate via phone just dial (724-898-1193 during
> the show's scheduled time.  That's all there is to it.  
> 
> Sign Up To Receive Text-Message Alerts When The Show Is Live!!
> 
> Can't listen live?  No problem, download/listen to past episodes on demand,
> at your convenience.  For more information including an audio PROMO for the
> next scheduled episode, show times, the ability to listen or participate via
> computer and more, go to:
> http://candleshore.com/secrets
> Let's Make A Joyful Noise, Together!!!
> 
> "Express yourself completely, then keep quiet."
> "He who stands on tiptoe doesn't stand firm.  She who rushes ahead doesn't
> go far.  He who tries to shine dims his own light.  She who defines herself
> can't know who she really is.  He who has power over others can't empower
> himself.  She who clings to her work will create nothing that endures."
> (Lao Tzu)
> 
> For infinite knowledge, go to:
> candleshoreblog.com
> 
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Re: Safari Update

[rayna424]

Looks like I'm the only one having problems in text edit fields. Hmmm.
I don't use audible and I don't use the full FB just the mobile one.
It's great; doesn't have all the fluff lol.

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closing apps on the iPod and iPhone

[Chris Snyder]

Hi all,
So when I hit the home button, it appears to close the app, but when I go to 
the app switcher, the app I tried to close is still there. How does one close 
the apps now in IOS4?

Friendly,
Chris

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Re: Needing help with Itunes radio

[Ben King]

Dear Courtney,
All you do is when something is collapsed you press the two arrow keys together 
and then you will be able to look at the stations.  I hope this helps.
Blessings,
Ben King
On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Courtney Curran wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm trying to look for a station in the Itunes Radio selection, but when I go 
> to a genre, they're all collaps and I can't expand them. Any help would be 
> greatly appreciated.
> Courtney
> 
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Re: amadeus question

[Allison Manzino]

Hi Sarah,

There's only one thing I can think of. THe only thing I can think of is either 
splitting the track or duplicating it in to a separate file. Let me try 
something and get back to you
 in a few minutes.

Allison
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> Did you yet find a way to ex[ort all of those tracks sepratly? Sorry fi I 
> keep asking but I'm working on an outboard project for someone
> 
> S
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:12 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> I'm so glad I was able to help you. I'm rerecording my podcast tomorrow as 
>> you can't hear the track I'm working on in Amadeus. I didn't realize that 
>> Audio Hijack didn't pick up what Amadeus was playing. I have to check out 
>> the VST reverb plug in, I didn't know about that. To play each track 
>> separately, I'd suggest naming them first. For example if you were to record 
>> guitar on one track, and vocals on another track. Interact with the scroll 
>> area and name the first track, then name the second track. After you do that 
>> you can check or uncheck the play boxes. Let's say you want to put reverb on 
>> the vocals, and not hear the guitar part. You just uncheck the play box and 
>> then only the vocal track will receive the reverb. I have also discovered a 
>> nifty feature called duplicate track. This is done by hitting command D as 
>> in Delta. It works really well for putting guitar on left and right sides 
>> and making a fuller sound. I hope I've helped. I love Amadeus and I agree 
>> with you, an accessible multitrack editor that doesn't cost thousands yay! 
>> Have a great evening.
>> 
>> Allison
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Allison and Sarah,
>>> Thanks very much for your help. Your tips really helped me take off, and 
>>> now I feel fairly confident with multi-track navigation. I guess the 
>>> question I must figure out now is how to reliably play both tracks at the 
>>> same time, and how to play separately. From what I've been able to 
>>> determine, it's kind of a gamble as to which will occur. Still, this is a 
>>> remarkable breakthrough. A multi-track editor which doesn't cost hundreds 
>>> or thousands of dollars that's accessible. Oh, and the free VST effects 
>>> that the guy has on his site are accessible as well and very cool. The 
>>> reverb is rather impressive. I've worked with waves reverb in both PT and 
>>> Goldwave, and I think these reverbs are very good indeed.
>>> 
>>> Friendly,
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>>> 
 I believe you ahve to hit esc after you get to the track you want. Kind of 
 clunky but it works.
 
 S
 On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Allison Manzino wrote:
 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I'm so excited another Amadeus convert :)  there is a slight delay when 
> recording with Amadeus, I have no idea why. It's tricky to get used to. 
> Sometimes, I make sure the mic is working correctly and just uncheck the 
> play through box before I record a vocal. Yes, there is a way to move 
> between tracks and mix etc. You have given me more incentive to do a 
> podcast on it. I will provide the link to the list when it's done, as a 
> reference. I'm learning right along with everyone else, so it's not going 
> to be a definitive podcast.,  Aside from Erik Caron's podcast on Blind 
> Cool Tech, all the things I've learned about Amadeus have been trial and 
> error. To move between tracks, press VO shift down arrow and interact 
> with the scroll area. It will take you to the track name where you can 
> type in a name, and then if you VO right arrow the volume slider, etc. I 
> hope that helps. Have a great day!
> 
> Allison
> 
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> 
>> Hi fellow Amadeus users,
>> I have just bought the program, and I managed to record a song with it. 
>> It was a bit tricky since I had to hand sync the vocal track with the 
>> instrumental track. The two questions I have are:
>> 1. Is there a way to move between tracks with voiceover in a multi-track 
>> project?
>> 2. If you select the pass through box in the record dialog, why is there 
>> a delay on the output?
>> My first thought was that it had something to do with the sound card in 
>> my macbook, but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced that.
>> Over all, I have to say I'm very pleased at how well voiceover handles 
>> Amadeus, and I'm becoming more and more comfortable using it in stead of 
>> Gold Wave.
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>

Re: amadeus question

[Sarah Alawami]

lol. yeah this is going ot be a multi track projuct with over dubs and stuff. 
tha'ts all I can say as I'm not aloud to actually say what it is. lol!
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:

> Hi Sarah,
> 
> There's only one thing I can think of. THe only thing I can think of is 
> either splitting the track or duplicating it in to a separate file. Let me 
> try something and get back to you
> in a few minutes.
> 
> Allison
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> Did you yet find a way to ex[ort all of those tracks sepratly? Sorry fi I 
>> keep asking but I'm working on an outboard project for someone
>> 
>> S
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:12 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I'm so glad I was able to help you. I'm rerecording my podcast tomorrow as 
>>> you can't hear the track I'm working on in Amadeus. I didn't realize that 
>>> Audio Hijack didn't pick up what Amadeus was playing. I have to check out 
>>> the VST reverb plug in, I didn't know about that. To play each track 
>>> separately, I'd suggest naming them first. For example if you were to 
>>> record guitar on one track, and vocals on another track. Interact with the 
>>> scroll area and name the first track, then name the second track. After you 
>>> do that you can check or uncheck the play boxes. Let's say you want to put 
>>> reverb on the vocals, and not hear the guitar part. You just uncheck the 
>>> play box and then only the vocal track will receive the reverb. I have also 
>>> discovered a nifty feature called duplicate track. This is done by hitting 
>>> command D as in Delta. It works really well for putting guitar on left and 
>>> right sides and making a fuller sound. I hope I've helped. I love Amadeus 
>>> and I agree with you, an accessible multitrack editor that doesn't cost 
>>> thousands yay! Have a great evening.
>>> 
>>> Allison
>>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Allison and Sarah,
 Thanks very much for your help. Your tips really helped me take off, and 
 now I feel fairly confident with multi-track navigation. I guess the 
 question I must figure out now is how to reliably play both tracks at the 
 same time, and how to play separately. From what I've been able to 
 determine, it's kind of a gamble as to which will occur. Still, this is a 
 remarkable breakthrough. A multi-track editor which doesn't cost hundreds 
 or thousands of dollars that's accessible. Oh, and the free VST effects 
 that the guy has on his site are accessible as well and very cool. The 
 reverb is rather impressive. I've worked with waves reverb in both PT and 
 Goldwave, and I think these reverbs are very good indeed.
 
 Friendly,
 Chris
 
 On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
 
> I believe you ahve to hit esc after you get to the track you want. Kind 
> of clunky but it works.
> 
> S
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Allison Manzino wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> I'm so excited another Amadeus convert :)  there is a slight delay when 
>> recording with Amadeus, I have no idea why. It's tricky to get used to. 
>> Sometimes, I make sure the mic is working correctly and just uncheck the 
>> play through box before I record a vocal. Yes, there is a way to move 
>> between tracks and mix etc. You have given me more incentive to do a 
>> podcast on it. I will provide the link to the list when it's done, as a 
>> reference. I'm learning right along with everyone else, so it's not 
>> going to be a definitive podcast.,  Aside from Erik Caron's podcast on 
>> Blind Cool Tech, all the things I've learned about Amadeus have been 
>> trial and error. To move between tracks, press VO shift down arrow and 
>> interact with the scroll area. It will take you to the track name where 
>> you can type in a name, and then if you VO right arrow the volume 
>> slider, etc. I hope that helps. Have a great day!
>> 
>> Allison
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi fellow Amadeus users,
>>> I have just bought the program, and I managed to record a song with it. 
>>> It was a bit tricky since I had to hand sync the vocal track with the 
>>> instrumental track. The two questions I have are:
>>> 1. Is there a way to move between tracks with voiceover in a 
>>> multi-track project?
>>> 2. If you select the pass through box in the record dialog, why is 
>>> there a delay on the output?
>>> My first thought was that it had something to do with the sound card in 
>>> my macbook, but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced that.
>>> Over all, I have to say I'm very pleased at how well voiceover handles 
>>> Amadeus, and I'm becoming more and more comfortable using it in stead 
>>> of Gold Wave.
>>> 
>>> Friendly,
>>> Chris
>>> 

New window versus new tab

[Linda Adams]

Chris and others,

I need a simple basic explanation of the difference (in Safari) between
opening a new window with command N versus opening a new tab with
command T.
Are they used differently in some way?

TIA,
Linda


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:17 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating
by form field and text


In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give
you an indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from
having to use the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page
is loaded.

Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.

To open a new tab, press command + T
To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab 

Hope this helps.

If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback and
you can also write to accessibil...@apple.com

Hope this helps 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:

> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read 
> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This 
> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not 
> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice 
> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set on

> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening. Jumping

> by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I believe it is

> needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know that you could 
> browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you activate quick 
> nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with the down arrow 
> key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to the text edit 
> field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has not told me or

> did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater thanks for the 
> suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow, twice, to get 
> to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a new tab, or 
> will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
> Thanks,
> alfredo
> 
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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Maurice Mines]

 at the risk of starting a blindness organization flame war, I respectfully 
disagree with the assertion that the national Federation of the blind 
supposedly did the blindest community harm in this area.
I think rather than involve ourselves and dedicated finger-pointing, we might 
want to get back to focusing on the economics of using a Mac in the K-12 school 
system or not. As a student of educational technology. I find myself using what 
ever it's usable for the project given the requirements of the course at hand. 
What does that mean that means the following year for the coursework can be 
done best by using an Apple computer and it's going to get a good grade, you 
better believe I'm going to use it if the application and what's necessary to 
complete the project at hand requires a Windows-based solution only do that 
too. In other words what I'm getting at is many tools help us to achieve what 
we need to achieve given what the goal is and what the intent of the project 
is. Also pointing a finger at the screen reading vendors on the Windows side of 
the house probably isn't very productive either those people have a very tough 
road to deal with, as well as the developers at Apple. It boils down to simply 
this, we have and will always be looked at as second-class citizens in the 
technology world. There's just simply no way around it we are a minority. We 
will always be a minority, just a plea based on the way society looks at what 
they perceive our challenge is to really be. I hope that my concerns have 
gotten many on this list to stop and think automatically pointing a finger at a 
blindness organization again isn't good, I don't care whether Steve American 
Council of the blind, or the national Federation of the blind. I come to this 
list for Apple related technology suggestions not for political 
finger-pointing. I got to the continues I can always look elsewhere I don't 
need my blood pressure jerked around by people who just lose sight of what 
maybe this list is about. I'll leave the rest of this from a moderator.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Hmm, The school system here in Arizona has always dealt with Apple. When I 
> was little, we had Apple 2E and 2GS computers, and when I got to high school, 
> we had the mac SE and other models. Now that my own children are in school, 
> they're learning on iMacs. Apple has always been involved with k-12 education 
> here. It's actually rather nice since I can help the kids with their computer 
> classes on the Mac.
> As far as the libraries around town go, they're all PC based, especially in 
> the adaptive technology rooms where they keep the braille writers and 
> scanners and such. 
> As far as Microsoft trying to make a screen reader is concerned, once again, 
> the NFB shoots blind people without state help in the foot yet again. I would 
> always would rather not pay extra for adaptive tech, and indeed it's why I 
> got rid of all but one of the PC's in the house.
> The more I see of the iPhone, the more excited I get over it, and the more I 
> actually consider switching to AT&T's evil empire.
> Anyway, just my two cents.
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>> 
>>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>>> here, are Mac-based. 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>>> wrote:
>>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>>> 
>>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
>>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
>>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
>>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
>>> on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> Bryan
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>>> 
>>> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>>> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>>> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>>> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>>> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>>> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>>> > mechan

Re: Safari Update

[Chris Westbrook]

I can confirm the blogger problem of not being able to edit line by line.  
weird.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 5:09 PM, rayna424 wrote:

> Looks like I'm the only one having problems in text edit fields. Hmmm.
> I don't use audible and I don't use the full FB just the mobile one.
> It's great; doesn't have all the fluff lol.
> 
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Re: closing apps on the iPod and iPhone

[Chris Moore]

Go to the app switcher and then double tap on the app, but on the second tap 
you hold for a few seconds.  You are then in edit mode, just simply double tap 
the app to be removed. from the app switcher.

Chris 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 22:29, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Hi all,
> So when I hit the home button, it appears to close the app, but when I go to 
> the app switcher, the app I tried to close is still there. How does one close 
> the apps now in IOS4?
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
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Re: amadeus question

[Allison Manzino]

Hi Linda, Sarah and all,

The only way I can figure to export individual tracks to files is to just 
uncheck the play box of the track you don't want to play and hit command A and 
then command C to copy the selection. I have tried this on a two-track project 
and it did work. I unchecked the play box on the guitar track and then exported 
the vocals. I hope this helps.

Allison

On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:

> lol. yeah this is going ot be a multi track projuct with over dubs and stuff. 
> tha'ts all I can say as I'm not aloud to actually say what it is. lol!
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:11 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:
> 
>> Hi Sarah,
>> 
>> There's only one thing I can think of. THe only thing I can think of is 
>> either splitting the track or duplicating it in to a separate file. Let me 
>> try something and get back to you
>> in a few minutes.
>> 
>> Allison
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:34 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
>> 
>>> Did you yet find a way to ex[ort all of those tracks sepratly? Sorry fi I 
>>> keep asking but I'm working on an outboard project for someone
>>> 
>>> S
>>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:12 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Chris,
 
 I'm so glad I was able to help you. I'm rerecording my podcast tomorrow as 
 you can't hear the track I'm working on in Amadeus. I didn't realize that 
 Audio Hijack didn't pick up what Amadeus was playing. I have to check out 
 the VST reverb plug in, I didn't know about that. To play each track 
 separately, I'd suggest naming them first. For example if you were to 
 record guitar on one track, and vocals on another track. Interact with the 
 scroll area and name the first track, then name the second track. After 
 you do that you can check or uncheck the play boxes. Let's say you want to 
 put reverb on the vocals, and not hear the guitar part. You just uncheck 
 the play box and then only the vocal track will receive the reverb. I have 
 also discovered a nifty feature called duplicate track. This is done by 
 hitting command D as in Delta. It works really well for putting guitar on 
 left and right sides and making a fuller sound. I hope I've helped. I love 
 Amadeus and I agree with you, an accessible multitrack editor that doesn't 
 cost thousands yay! Have a great evening.
 
 Allison
 
 On Jun 22, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
 
> Hi Allison and Sarah,
> Thanks very much for your help. Your tips really helped me take off, and 
> now I feel fairly confident with multi-track navigation. I guess the 
> question I must figure out now is how to reliably play both tracks at the 
> same time, and how to play separately. From what I've been able to 
> determine, it's kind of a gamble as to which will occur. Still, this is a 
> remarkable breakthrough. A multi-track editor which doesn't cost hundreds 
> or thousands of dollars that's accessible. Oh, and the free VST effects 
> that the guy has on his site are accessible as well and very cool. The 
> reverb is rather impressive. I've worked with waves reverb in both PT and 
> Goldwave, and I think these reverbs are very good indeed.
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
> On Jun 22, 2010, at 8:04 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote:
> 
>> I believe you ahve to hit esc after you get to the track you want. Kind 
>> of clunky but it works.
>> 
>> S
>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Allison Manzino wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I'm so excited another Amadeus convert :)  there is a slight delay when 
>>> recording with Amadeus, I have no idea why. It's tricky to get used to. 
>>> Sometimes, I make sure the mic is working correctly and just uncheck 
>>> the play through box before I record a vocal. Yes, there is a way to 
>>> move between tracks and mix etc. You have given me more incentive to do 
>>> a podcast on it. I will provide the link to the list when it's done, as 
>>> a reference. I'm learning right along with everyone else, so it's not 
>>> going to be a definitive podcast.,  Aside from Erik Caron's podcast on 
>>> Blind Cool Tech, all the things I've learned about Amadeus have been 
>>> trial and error. To move between tracks, press VO shift down arrow and 
>>> interact with the scroll area. It will take you to the track name where 
>>> you can type in a name, and then if you VO right arrow the volume 
>>> slider, etc. I hope that helps. Have a great day!
>>> 
>>> Allison
>>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>>> 
 Hi fellow Amadeus users,
 I have just bought the program, and I managed to record a song with 
 it. It was a bit tricky since I had to hand sync the vocal track with 
 the instrumental track. The two questions I have are:
 1. Is there a way to move between tracks with voiceover in a 
>>

Re: Needing help with Itunes radio

[Chris Moore]

Does VO + \ not have the desired effect?

On 23 Jun 2010, at 23:09, Ben King wrote:

> Dear Courtney,
> All you do is when something is collapsed you press the two arrow keys 
> together and then you will be able to look at the stations.  I hope this 
> helps.
> Blessings,
> Ben King
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Courtney Curran wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> I'm trying to look for a station in the Itunes Radio selection, but when I 
>> go to a genre, they're all collaps and I can't expand them. Any help would 
>> be greatly appreciated.
>> Courtney
>> 
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Re: New window versus new tab

[Chris Moore]

Ok I can appreciate why this might be confusing.  For myself when I was sighted 
a few months ago I always preferred tabs as it visually keeps the desktop tidy 
and keeps all your safari windows in one place.  Plus if I was on several 
different websites such as Amazon or Play i could quickly compare prices 
between the two sites instead of having to keep moving open windows around.

As a blind user now I guess it just comes down to what you are used to and 
comfortable with  With tabs I can quickly cycle through them with Control + 
TAB.  But equally so with open windows you can VO+F2 and then select the window 
from the list.

So there is no right or wrong way, I would just say for a sighted person I 
think most people would prefer tabs.

Does this answer your question?

Chris 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 23:24, Linda Adams wrote:

> Chris and others,
> 
> I need a simple basic explanation of the difference (in Safari) between
> opening a new window with command N versus opening a new tab with
> command T.
> Are they used differently in some way?
> 
> TIA,
> Linda
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating
> by form field and text
> 
> 
> In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give
> you an indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from
> having to use the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page
> is loaded.
> 
> Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.
> 
> To open a new tab, press command + T
> To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab 
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback and
> you can also write to accessibil...@apple.com
> 
> Hope this helps 
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read 
>> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This 
>> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not 
>> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice 
>> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set on
> 
>> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening. Jumping
> 
>> by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I believe it is
> 
>> needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know that you could 
>> browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you activate quick 
>> nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with the down arrow 
>> key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to the text edit 
>> field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has not told me or
> 
>> did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater thanks for the 
>> suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow, twice, to get 
>> to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a new tab, or 
>> will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
>> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
>> Thanks,
>> alfredo
>> 
>> --
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>> 
> 
> 
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
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> 06:36:00
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RE: New window versus new tab

[Linda Adams]

Chris,

Yes, your explanation was very good.  BTW, I've been using
command-accent to cycle through windows.  Since I've gotten used to
that, I guess I'll stick with it.

Linda


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:40 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New window versus new tab


Ok I can appreciate why this might be confusing.  For myself when I was
sighted a few months ago I always preferred tabs as it visually keeps
the desktop tidy and keeps all your safari windows in one place.  Plus
if I was on several different websites such as Amazon or Play i could
quickly compare prices between the two sites instead of having to keep
moving open windows around.

As a blind user now I guess it just comes down to what you are used to
and comfortable with  With tabs I can quickly cycle through them with
Control + TAB.  But equally so with open windows you can VO+F2 and then
select the window from the list.

So there is no right or wrong way, I would just say for a sighted person
I think most people would prefer tabs.

Does this answer your question?

Chris 
On 23 Jun 2010, at 23:24, Linda Adams wrote:

> Chris and others,
> 
> I need a simple basic explanation of the difference (in Safari) 
> between opening a new window with command N versus opening a new tab 
> with command T. Are they used differently in some way?
> 
> TIA,
> Linda
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:17 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating

> by form field and text
> 
> 
> In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give 
> you an indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from

> having to use the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page

> is loaded.
> 
> Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.
> 
> To open a new tab, press command + T
> To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback 
> and you can also write to accessibil...@apple.com
> 
> Hope this helps
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read
>> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This 
>> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not 
>> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice 
>> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set
on
> 
>> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening. 
>> Jumping
> 
>> by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I believe it 
>> is
> 
>> needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know that you could
>> browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you activate quick 
>> nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with the down arrow 
>> key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to the text edit 
>> field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has not told me
or
> 
>> did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater thanks for the
>> suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow, twice, to get

>> to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a new tab, or 
>> will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
>> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
>> Thanks,
>> alfredo
>> 
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.

>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>> 
> 
> 
> --
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> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date:
06/23/10
> 06:36:00
> 
> 
> --
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Using Itunes on the Mac to turn VO on with a new IPad

[Frank Ventura]

Hi all, I just connected a new IPad to my Mac Book and it was recognized
by ITunes. What I cannot figure out is how to use ITunes to turn
VoiceOver on on the Ipad. In the IPad settings scroll area in ITunes
there is a Status Tab, an Info Tab, and then about eight other tab fors
media types. Can anyone walk me through turning on the Ipad's VO using
ITunes on the Mac?
Thanks
Frank

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RE: Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.

[Linda Adams]

James,
 
Here is the link to the full guide
http://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/
and here is the link to the Appendix that has the gesture commands
http://www.apple.com/voiceover/info/guide/_1131.html
 
The guide is not all inclusive but it is very helpful.
 
Linda
 
 -Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.


Hi, 

Consult the VoiceOVer manual. They're all in there.

Regards,
Nic

Mobile Me: nic2...@me.com
GoogleTalk: chojiro1...@gmail.com
Facebook  
Twitter  
Skype: Kvalme
MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk
Yahoo! Messenger: cin368
AIM: cincinster

On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Chris Moore wrote:


The ones I know (I use my iMac more then my macbook) flick left or right
to move back and forth.  Two fingers down swipe to read all. 

3 fingers down swipe up and down to move up and down a page.  2 finger
double tap at the bottom of the pad for the dock.  2 finger double tap
at the top of the pad for the menu.

Use 2 fingers and turn for the rota settings.

2 finger double tap on the left middle for open applications and 2
finger double tap on the right middle for open windows.

Sorry to anyone in advance if I have left stuff out and made a mistake,
like I say I have not got into gestures much yet.

Hope this helps though 

Chris 

On 23 Jun 2010, at 13:52, James Gallagher wrote:


Hello to all on the List.

hope that all are well.

Yesterday I bought my first MacBook pro 13inch 13inch 2.66GHz (Intel
Core 2 Duo, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb 

Been using a Mac for coming up for three Years since Leopard got Braille
support built in to it.

And a very Happy Mac user. with an iMac and three Mac Minis.

My Question and help I need is can anyone please give me any info about
using VoiceOver Gestures on Multi-Touch trackpad.

I read here that many of you use podt casts to learn from others about
this. 
I am a Deafblind person so these things are no good to me.

is there a good and helpful text document out there that I can read
and learn all the thinks I can do with this great little trackpad.

I would be very grateful for any info or help Please.

all the very best to you all.

Yours
James



The highest result of education is tolerance.
Hellen Keller
--
James Gallagher

A-Z to Deafblindness  >
A Deafblindness Web Resource  >
Learn more about Braille Chess at  >
My Guide Dogs  >
For the Sighted Hearing my WAP site is at 


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10
06:36:00


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Using iTunes To Transfer Text Files Re: Using Itunes on the Mac to turn VO on with a new IPad

[Jane]

Please forgive the subject change; the address for this list hasn't yet 
made it into my address book.


I am transferring *lots* of music from one iTunes library on a Mac to 
another; all mine and I can do that much.  What I want to know is if I 
can transfer text and pdf and other kinds of files through iTunes.  Can 
I add them to the library and have them come through and fish them out 
once they are on this computer?  Or is this just not possible and I need 
to use my flash drives to transfer e-texts?


Jane






On 6/23/2010 7:52 PM, Frank Ventura wrote:

Hi all, I just connected a new IPad to my Mac Book and it was recognized
by ITunes. What I cannot figure out is how to use ITunes to turn
VoiceOver on on the Ipad. In the IPad settings scroll area in ITunes
there is a Status Tab, an Info Tab, and then about eight other tab fors
media types. Can anyone walk me through turning on the Ipad's VO using
ITunes on the Mac?
Thanks
Frank

   


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Re: New window versus new tab

[Peggy Fleischer]

That is a very good answer! I am totally blind and personally like tabs better. 
it just seems smoother and faster to me than bringing up window chooser.

Peggy Fleischer
peggyfleisc...@bellsouth.net

Jude 1:24  Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present 
you 
faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
1:25  To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion 
and power, Both now and forever. Amen.


On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Chris Moore wrote:

> Ok I can appreciate why this might be confusing.  For myself when I was 
> sighted a few months ago I always preferred tabs as it visually keeps the 
> desktop tidy and keeps all your safari windows in one place.  Plus if I was 
> on several different websites such as Amazon or Play i could quickly compare 
> prices between the two sites instead of having to keep moving open windows 
> around.
> 
> As a blind user now I guess it just comes down to what you are used to and 
> comfortable with  With tabs I can quickly cycle through them with Control + 
> TAB.  But equally so with open windows you can VO+F2 and then select the 
> window from the list.
> 
> So there is no right or wrong way, I would just say for a sighted person I 
> think most people would prefer tabs.
> 
> Does this answer your question?
> 
> Chris 
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 23:24, Linda Adams wrote:
> 
>> Chris and others,
>> 
>> I need a simple basic explanation of the difference (in Safari) between
>> opening a new window with command N versus opening a new tab with
>> command T.
>> Are they used differently in some way?
>> 
>> TIA,
>> Linda
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:17 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating
>> by form field and text
>> 
>> 
>> In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give
>> you an indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from
>> having to use the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page
>> is loaded.
>> 
>> Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.
>> 
>> To open a new tab, press command + T
>> To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab 
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback and
>> you can also write to accessibil...@apple.com
>> 
>> Hope this helps 
>> On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read 
>>> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This 
>>> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not 
>>> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice 
>>> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set on
>> 
>>> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening. Jumping
>> 
>>> by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I believe it is
>> 
>>> needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know that you could 
>>> browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you activate quick 
>>> nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with the down arrow 
>>> key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to the text edit 
>>> field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has not told me or
>> 
>>> did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater thanks for the 
>>> suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow, twice, to get 
>>> to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a new tab, or 
>>> will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
>>> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
>>> Thanks,
>>> alfredo
>>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.439 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2957 - Release Date: 06/23/10
>> 06:36:00
>> 
>> 
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HTML versions of the new iOS4 user guides for iPhone and iPod Touch

[Esther]

Hello,

I did some digging around for HTML versions of the iPhone and iPod  
Touch User Guides under iOS 4, and here's what I found. These are all  
in English, so I don't know whether there are versions up for other  
languages.  Trying the obvious things (like changing "en" for English  
to "fr" for French, etc.) didn't work.


• The Accessible Version of the new iPhone 4G User Guide, which you  
can read from any web browser

http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en/

• The iPhone 4G User Guide (only shows up in HTML when viewed from an  
iPhone or iPod Touch, otherwise you get taken to the Apple Support  
Page for the device)

http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/

• The iPod Touch User Guide under iOS 4 ((only shows up in HTML when  
viewed from an iPhone or iPod Touch, otherwise you get taken to the  
Apple Support Page for the device)

http://help.apple.com/ipodtouch/4/

These last two versions of the user guides likely show up under  
bookmarks in Safari if you have bought a new device, and if you don't  
have MobileMe (with a setup so that your Safari Bookmarks from your  
computer sync to the iPhone or iPod Touch).  I don't know about the  
iPod Touch User Guide -- that was absent in the Safari bookmarks on  
devices at the time I bought my iPod Touch (last September), and for  
several months afterwards, according to checks of the devices in the  
Apple Stores.


One warning: these last two versions of the HTML guides have the same  
VoiceOver bug that we discovered last December: if you access the HTML  
pages of these guides from your iPhone or iPod Touch with VoiceOver  
turned on, you will be able to flick to, but not activate, any linked  
entries beyond the first page.  The rule is, if you can't touch the  
entry and double-tap it on the screen, you won't be able to open the  
page.  The work-around is to toggle VoiceOver off (with a triple click  
of the home button), do a three-finger flick up to move past the first  
screen of entries, and then toggle VoiceOver on again.


I suggest that people add bookmarks to the accessible HTML version of  
the iPhone users guide given in the first link.  You can put an icon  
on your device screen by going to that page in Safari on your iPhone  
or iPod Touch, then double tapping the "Utilities" button at the  
bottom center of your screen, just above the home button.  You can  
then put an icon for the accessible iPhone 4 manual on your home  
screen by double tapping the "Add to Home Screen" button, or you can  
simply add it as a bookmark in Safari by double tapping the "Add  
Bookmark" button.


I personally choose to put a link to the section on VoiceOver on my  
home screen:

http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en/iph3e2e4218.html

Others may want to start one level up, at the Accessibility chapter,  
in order to access information like the new large text fonts in mail  
and messages:

http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en/iph3e2e2c13.html

Still other will only want to link one level down, to the VoiceOver  
gestures section:

http://help.apple.com/iphone/4/voiceover/en/iph3e2e2281.html

Just to summarize, the new gesture under iOS 4 is:
Two-finger "scrub": Move two fingers back and forth three times  
quickly (making a "z") to dismiss an alert or go back to the previous  
screen.


HTH.  If anyone finds versions of the user guides for other languages,  
please post. Cheers,


Esther

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Re: What view to you use on the finder and which is easier for beginner?

[Alfredo]

I think that the column view would be nice as is the list view, i will
try both of these.  as  for beginners i thinkt aht the list view is
better since it uses the voice over keys whcih i think a beginner
should get used to since they use these keys alot in the OS.  thanks,
alfredo

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Re: amadeus question

[Chris Snyder]

Hi Allison,
One other question. Have you heard of a way to record on that second track at 
the same time you're playing the first one?

Friendly,
Chris

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Re: closing apps on the iPod and iPhone

[Chris Snyder]

Thanks, Chris.
It worked beautifully.

Friendly,
Chris

On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:46 PM, Chris Moore wrote:

> Go to the app switcher and then double tap on the app, but on the second tap 
> you hold for a few seconds.  You are then in edit mode, just simply double 
> tap the app to be removed. from the app switcher.
> 
> Chris 
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 22:29, Chris Snyder wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> So when I hit the home button, it appears to close the app, but when I go to 
>> the app switcher, the app I tried to close is still there. How does one 
>> close the apps now in IOS4?
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
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> 
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Webkit and Audible

[David McLean]

Hello, I downloaded the latest version of webkit this evening and it seems so 
far to be working with Audible.  Those of you like me who have had problems 
with Safari v5 might want to give it a try.
So far so good!

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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Michael Thurman]

every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
> 
>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>> here, are Mac-based. 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>> wrote:
>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>> 
>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen reader 
>> company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems got 
>> shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might 
>> like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines 
>> for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>> 
>> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>> > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>> > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>> > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>> > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>> > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>> > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>> > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>> > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>> > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>> > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>> > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>> > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>> > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>> > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>> > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>> > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>> > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>> > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>> > Anchorage, Alaska.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>> >
>> > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
>> > have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
>> > I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
>> > secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
>> > FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
>> > market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
>> > that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
>> > ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
>> > ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
>> > of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
>> > by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
>> > deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
>> > anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
>> > a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
>> > robotic.  Tell me that's not ridiculous?  I don't know that agencies
>> > are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our
>> > needs that somebody will buy it.  Not me.  Granted, if more people
>> > were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with
>> > macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things
>> > might come down a bit.  That's great about the scanner.  I'd better
>> > stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing
>> > correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault.
>> >
>> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>> >
>> >> With all due 

Re: -- SPAM -- Re: Economics and the Mac

[David McLean]

That's very interesting!  I had never heard MS was interested in developing a 
screen reader.  I thought their position was always it was better left to third 
party vendors.
Of course back then MS was also under pressure for forcing people to take 
Internet Explorer as part of the OS.  I wonder how good the screen reader would 
have been or what their long term commitment to it would have been.  Twenty 
years ago Ibm developed a screen reader first for Dos then later for Os2 only 
to let them die later on.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:

> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>> 
>>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>>> here, are Mac-based. 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>>> wrote:
>>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>>> 
>>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
>>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
>>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
>>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
>>> on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> Bryan
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>>> 
>>> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>>> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>>> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>>> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>>> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>>> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>>> > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>>> > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>>> > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>>> > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>>> > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>>> > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>>> > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>>> > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>>> > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>>> > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>>> > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>>> > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>>> > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>>> > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>>> > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>>> > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>>> > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>>> > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>>> > Anchorage, Alaska.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
>>> > have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
>>> > I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
>>> > secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
>>> > FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
>>> > market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
>>> > that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
>>> > ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
>>> > ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
>>> > of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
>>> > by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
>>> > deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
>>> > anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
>>> > a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
>>> > robotic.  Tell me t

Re: Economics and the Mac

[Michael Thurman]

that is why I can't stand the NFB but then again a rich attourney runs it, or 
used to, so what do you expect. he has disposable income
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Hmm, The school system here in Arizona has always dealt with Apple. When I 
> was little, we had Apple 2E and 2GS computers, and when I got to high school, 
> we had the mac SE and other models. Now that my own children are in school, 
> they're learning on iMacs. Apple has always been involved with k-12 education 
> here. It's actually rather nice since I can help the kids with their computer 
> classes on the Mac.
> As far as the libraries around town go, they're all PC based, especially in 
> the adaptive technology rooms where they keep the braille writers and 
> scanners and such. 
> As far as Microsoft trying to make a screen reader is concerned, once again, 
> the NFB shoots blind people without state help in the foot yet again. I would 
> always would rather not pay extra for adaptive tech, and indeed it's why I 
> got rid of all but one of the PC's in the house.
> The more I see of the iPhone, the more excited I get over it, and the more I 
> actually consider switching to AT&T's evil empire.
> Anyway, just my two cents.
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>> 
>>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>>> here, are Mac-based. 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>>> wrote:
>>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>>> 
>>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
>>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
>>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
>>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
>>> on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> Bryan
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>>> 
>>> > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>>> > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>>> > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>>> > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>>> > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>>> > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>>> > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>>> > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>>> > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>>> > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>>> > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>>> > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>>> > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>>> > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>>> > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>>> > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>>> > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>>> > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>>> > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>>> > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>>> > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>>> > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>>> > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>>> > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>>> > Anchorage, Alaska.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
>>> > have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
>>> > I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
>>> > secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
>>> > FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
>>> > market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
>>> > that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electroni

Re: Economics and the Mac

[Karen Lewellen]

Not totally sure on that minority claim.
fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated 
apple computers to schools around the country.
I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers 
we had were apple computers.

You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
Karen


On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:


every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:


Hi,

I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:


In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high school's 
library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around here, are 
Mac-based.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  wrote:
Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, they 
were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind people 
out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more trouble 
than it was worth, and dropped the project.

I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen reader 
company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley Systems got 
shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while individuals might like 
Macs, business and academia will continue to insist on Windows machines for a 
long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to them.

Bryan

On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:


I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
Anchorage, Alaska.


On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:

I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
by Capital Accessibility in Europe.  I've seen one and it's no big
deal.  The speech is great, but there is no camera, digital screen, or
anything that might ad a bit of a price to the phone.  It's built like
a brick, but it is over $500 and though the speech is clear, it's very
robotic.  Tell me that's not ridiculous?  I don't know that agencies
are responsible for this one, but the phone is so tailored to our
needs that somebody will buy it.  Not me.  Granted, if more people
were learning braille and speech software as they were dealing with
macular degeneration, and there was a big enough demand for it, things
might come down a bit.  That's great about the scanner.  I'd better
stop typing now as I am misspelling more things than I am typing
correctly and am about to throw this keyboard, though it's not at fault.

On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:46 PM, Richie Garden

Re: New window versus new tab

[Alfredo]

When I was sighted I used tabs because they used to sayt hat opening
new windows would take more ram, which, if you had many opened
windows, would slow down your computer.  Tabs open the new web page
inside the browser window which saves ram by not having to open a new
instance of the browser.  I do not know if this is tru today, but I
suppose it should hold tru.  Tab browsing is not only for the sighted
but for the blind, as you can manage your opened webpages, since when
wanting to change to another webpage you just control + tab.  When you
want to change to another program, you would just command + tab, a few
times, instead of many times because the webpages are opened in a
program window.
Alfredo

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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Courtney Curran]

I hate to say it this way, but I agree with you about the NFB. I don't think 
you could have said it any better (smiley). All the school systems I have been 
through had Macks, the first computer I ever started with was a Mack, I guess 
it was an Apple 2, not sure though.
Courtney

On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Michael Thurman wrote:

> that is why I can't stand the NFB but then again a rich attourney runs it, or 
> used to, so what do you expect. he has disposable income
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> 
>> Hmm, The school system here in Arizona has always dealt with Apple. When I 
>> was little, we had Apple 2E and 2GS computers, and when I got to high 
>> school, we had the mac SE and other models. Now that my own children are in 
>> school, they're learning on iMacs. Apple has always been involved with k-12 
>> education here. It's actually rather nice since I can help the kids with 
>> their computer classes on the Mac.
>> As far as the libraries around town go, they're all PC based, especially in 
>> the adaptive technology rooms where they keep the braille writers and 
>> scanners and such. 
>> As far as Microsoft trying to make a screen reader is concerned, once again, 
>> the NFB shoots blind people without state help in the foot yet again. I 
>> would always would rather not pay extra for adaptive tech, and indeed it's 
>> why I got rid of all but one of the PC's in the house.
>> The more I see of the iPhone, the more excited I get over it, and the more I 
>> actually consider switching to AT&T's evil empire.
>> Anyway, just my two cents.
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment. 
>>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>>> 
 In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
 school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
 here, are Mac-based. 
 
 On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
 wrote:
 Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
 the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader 
 companies, they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for 
 putting blind people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot 
 potato was more trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
 
 I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
 reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
 Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
 individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
 on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
 them.
 
 Bryan
 
 On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
 
 > I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
 > hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
 > universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
 > Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
 > technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
 > brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
 > mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
 > sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
 > forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
 > economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
 > dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
 > it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
 > is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
 > government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
 > I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
 > to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
 > majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
 > boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
 > the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
 > kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
 > Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
 > probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
 > us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
 > increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
 > Anchorage, Alaska.
 >
 >
 > On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
 >
 > I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
 > have a gua

RE: Economics and the Mac

[Bryan Smart]

Yeh, and my schools in the 1980's and 90's had Apple IIs and Macs, also. I 
learned to program on an Apple IIe that I got to use at school. My first 
encounter with assistive tech was an Apple IIe with an Echo II, Braille-Edit, 
and a Cramner embosser. Since then, there has been the Internet revolution, the 
smartphone revolution, 7 major releases of the Mac OS (in different forms), at 
least 7 major releases of Windows, Linux, and so on. That has been a long time. 
Hey, if there were Macs around here, or in any state around here, I'd be all 
for it and eager to pick up the work. All the outreach divisions associated 
with agencies that serve the AT needs of disabled students have practically no 
demand for Mac services. They're tasked with providing equipment, training, and 
associated services to help a disabled student use the same computing resources 
as their sighted peers. So, if there are Macs, and the student has to use them, 
it is on the agencies to make it work. None of them bother to learn anything 
about the Mac, because there is no demand for it at work. When the odd ball 
situation comes up, they contract out the work, which is rare. I'm the only 
contractor they have that supports the Mac, and rarely do I get work from them 
for that reason. Usually, they contact me about technology issues related to 
assistive tech for music.

I bet there are many school districts in California that use Macs. I suspect 
that there are other clusters of Mac use. I can tell you, though, in the 
south-eastern US, the school world is thousands and thousands of Windows-based 
PCs, adapted for the totally blind, when needed, with Jaws. I don't really like 
it, but that's how it is here.

Bryan

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:39 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Economics and the Mac

Not totally sure on that minority claim.
fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated apple 
computers to schools around the country.
I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we had 
were apple computers.
You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
Karen


On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:

> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>>
>>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
>>> here, are Mac-based.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
>>> wrote:
>>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between the 
>>> National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader companies, 
>>> they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for putting blind 
>>> people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot potato was more 
>>> trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>>>
>>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
>>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
>>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
>>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
>>> on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>>>
 I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion
 at hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac
 computers universally marketed across the board, there is no reason
 why Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and
 the technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if
 it brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop
 a mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box
 without sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific
 would then be forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they
 would lose their economic dolars; after all, isn't that what
 competition for tax dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my
 humble opinion, for what it's worth, the only reason Freedom
 Scientific survives in the market is because they have contracted
 with some state agencies and government entities, and we bare the brunt of 
 the expense ineirectly.
 I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing
 $8000 to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the
 biggest majority of 

Re: Webkit and Audible

[Mike Reiser]

I can confirm this here, is working well here as well.

Mike

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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Ricardo Walker]

I don't know,

The last time I saw a Mac in a school I was 11 years old.  This was in 1994.  
all throughout high school and college I've yet to see one.  The public 
libraries all use windows PCs as well.  How far back are you guys talking about 
since you've seen Macs in schools?  I don't mean to be rude but, if your using 
your experiences from what you used 20 years ago I don't know how valid that is.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> Not totally sure on that minority claim.
> fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated 
> apple computers to schools around the country.
> I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we 
> had were apple computers.
> You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
> Karen
> 
> 
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:
> 
>> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
>> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  It 
>>> really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
>>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>>> 
 In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
 school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
 here, are Mac-based.
 
 On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
 wrote:
 Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
 the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader 
 companies, they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for 
 putting blind people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot 
 potato was more trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
 
 I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
 reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
 Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
 individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to insist 
 on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly irrelevant to 
 them.
 
 Bryan
 
 On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
 
> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
> to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
> boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
> Anchorage, Alaska.
> 
> 
> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
> 
> I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
> have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
> I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
> secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
> FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
> market.  I'm not saying things could not change, but simply stating
> that you can't get JAWS or a Braille display from a  home electronics
> ore software store, and I wouldn't expect to happen any time soon if
> ever. In their eyes, why should They bother as they won't sell enough
> of them to make it worth their while.  There  is a cell phone put out
> 

Re: Webkit and Audible

[Olivia Norman]

how do I get it?
Olivia
"Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower", Steve Jobs

On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:25 PM, David McLean wrote:

> Hello, I downloaded the latest version of webkit this evening and it seems so 
> far to be working with Audible.  Those of you like me who have had problems 
> with Safari v5 might want to give it a try.
> So far so good!
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 

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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Courtney Curran]

Hi,
I saw a Mack in school since 1997, when I was in first grade. They've been in 
the schools in my county ever since. And they have them at the college that I'm 
currently attending.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> I don't know,
> 
> The last time I saw a Mac in a school I was 11 years old.  This was in 1994.  
> all throughout high school and college I've yet to see one.  The public 
> libraries all use windows PCs as well.  How far back are you guys talking 
> about since you've seen Macs in schools?  I don't mean to be rude but, if 
> your using your experiences from what you used 20 years ago I don't know how 
> valid that is.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> 
>> Not totally sure on that minority claim.
>> fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated 
>> apple computers to schools around the country.
>> I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we 
>> had were apple computers.
>> You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
>> Karen
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:
>> 
>>> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
>>> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
>>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  
 It really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
 On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
 
> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
> here, are Mac-based.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
> wrote:
> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
> the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader 
> companies, they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for 
> putting blind people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot 
> potato was more trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
> 
> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to 
> insist on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly 
> irrelevant to them.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
> 
>> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>> to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>> boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>> Anchorage, Alaska.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>> I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
>> have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
>> I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
>> secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
>> FS knows that they can get away with it because of a guaranteed
>> market.  I'm not saying things could no

Re: Webkit and Audible

[Kimberly thurman]

I tried it  a few times and working here as well.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:58 PM, Mike Reiser wrote:

> I can confirm this here, is working well here as well.
> 
> Mike
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
> 

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Re: Economics and the Mac

[Chris Snyder]

Well, I saw the macs in my own schools starting in about 1986 when I was in 
second grade. But as I said, my children, the oldest of whom is eight, use macs 
in their school. I checked into it, and the entire district as well as several 
surrounding it also use macs.

Friendly,
Chris

On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:08 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

> I don't know,
> 
> The last time I saw a Mac in a school I was 11 years old.  This was in 1994.  
> all throughout high school and college I've yet to see one.  The public 
> libraries all use windows PCs as well.  How far back are you guys talking 
> about since you've seen Macs in schools?  I don't mean to be rude but, if 
> your using your experiences from what you used 20 years ago I don't know how 
> valid that is.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> 
>> Not totally sure on that minority claim.
>> fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated 
>> apple computers to schools around the country.
>> I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we 
>> had were apple computers.
>> You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
>> Karen
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:
>> 
>>> every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
>>> computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
>>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  
 It really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
 On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
 
> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools around 
> here, are Mac-based.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart  
> wrote:
> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
> the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader 
> companies, they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for 
> putting blind people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that hot 
> potato was more trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
> 
> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to 
> insist on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly 
> irrelevant to them.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
> 
>> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>> to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>> boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>> Anchorage, Alaska.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>> 
>> I know that the companies take huge advantage of the fact that they
>> have a guaranteed nitch and can charge whatever they want.  That's why
>> I will not upgrade my JAWS SMA.  For one thing I don't need it and
>> secondly, I don't want to pay that kind of price for an upgrade, but
>> FS knows t

Re: Economics and the Mac

[Ricardo Walker]

Ah,

Ok.  I guess this might have much to do with States or regions.  At least in 
NYC its rare to see a Mac in a school or library now a days
On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Well, I saw the macs in my own schools starting in about 1986 when I was in 
> second grade. But as I said, my children, the oldest of whom is eight, use 
> macs in their school. I checked into it, and the entire district as well as 
> several surrounding it also use macs.
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:08 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
> 
>> I don't know,
>> 
>> The last time I saw a Mac in a school I was 11 years old.  This was in 1994. 
>>  all throughout high school and college I've yet to see one.  The public 
>> libraries all use windows PCs as well.  How far back are you guys talking 
>> about since you've seen Macs in schools?  I don't mean to be rude but, if 
>> your using your experiences from what you used 20 years ago I don't know how 
>> valid that is.
>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> 
>>> Not totally sure on that minority claim.
>>> fro many many years, apple had the apple core program where they donated 
>>> apple computers to schools around the country.
>>> I went to high school in Arkansas...a grand while ago, and the computers we 
>>> had were apple computers.
>>> You might be surprised how many schools are so equip.
>>> Karen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 23 Jun 2010, Michael Thurman wrote:
>>> 
 every school system that I have ever had any dealings with uses macintosh 
 computers in at least some of their labs and teaching.
 On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
 
> Hi,
> 
> I don't mean to be harsh but, your local school system is the minority.  
> It really has no baring on Bryan's original comment.
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:41 AM, Rob Lambert wrote:
> 
>> In regards to your academia comment, the public school system, my high 
>> school's library, as well as mobile labs & many elementary schools 
>> around here, are Mac-based.
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Bryan Smart 
>>  wrote:
>> Microsoft tried to make a full screen reader over 10 years ago. Between 
>> the National Federation of the Blind, and the various screen reader 
>> companies, they were threatened with all sorts of vocally loud press for 
>> putting blind people out of work at the AT companies. MS decided that 
>> hot potato was more trouble than it was worth, and dropped the project.
>> 
>> I guess Apple didn't get the same treatment since there was no screen 
>> reader company to put out of business, unless you count how Berkeley 
>> Systems got shafted, and most of the blindness orgs know that, while 
>> individuals might like Macs, business and academia will continue to 
>> insist on Windows machines for a long time to come. Macs are mostly 
>> irrelevant to them.
>> 
>> Bryan
>> 
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009, Richie Gardenhire wrote:
>> 
>>> I have changed the subject line to more reflect on the discussion at
>>> hand.  If Apple can set aside resources to make their Mac computers
>>> universally marketed across the board, there is no reason why
>>> Microsoftshouldn't, (and they definitely have the resources and the
>>> technical expertise throughout the company) to do so.  And if it
>>> brings the prices down, and Microsoft does, for example, develop a
>>> mechanism by which Windows can be installed out of the box without
>>> sighted assistance, companies such as Freedom Scientific would then be
>>> forced to either go with the trend; otherwise, they would lose their
>>> economic dolars; after all, isn't that what competition for tax
>>> dollars and marketshare is all about?  In my humble opinion, for what
>>> it's worth, the only reason Freedom Scientific survives in the market
>>> is because they have contracted with some state agencies and
>>> government entities, and we bare the brunt of the expense ineirectly.
>>> I paid less for my car than I have for braille displays costing $8000
>>> to $12,000 dollars at a time.  In Alaska, for example, the biggest
>>> majority of vision loss occurs in the elderly population and baby
>>> boomers who are about to reach retirement age.  We have no school for
>>> the blind in Alaska; therefore, if parents want to send their blind
>>> kids off to a residential school, they would have to send them
>>> Stateside, which costs the state thousands of dollars which they could
>>> probably find other revenues to use elsewhere.There are a handful of
>>> us who are blind and visually-impaired Macusers, but that numberis
>>> increasing, as the word about VoiceOver gets out.  Richie Gardenhire,
>>> Anchorage, Alaska.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 30, 2009, at 1:21 PM, carlene knight wrote:
>>> 
>>> I know that the

Re: Economics and the Mac

[Mary Otten]

the school system where my husband teaches here in Oregon uses all macs. I 
don't know if others do or not.

Mary

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Re: amadeus question

[Allison Manzino]

Hi Chris,

Yes, there is. If you record one track and want to play an instrument to the 
other track, just cue the first track and hit command option R then hit VO 
space on the button  and it will begin recording. I demonstrate this in my 
Amadeus podcast since this is not intuitive. To check it out:
http://gwenna.podbean.com
 Have a great day and best of luck with Amadeus. I just love it!

Allison
On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:20 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Hi Allison,
> One other question. Have you heard of a way to record on that second track at 
> the same time you're playing the first one?
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
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Re: amadeus question

[Chris Snyder]

Allison,
Thank you very much. This is awesome! I'm listening to your podcasts now. 
Thanks for these as well.

Friendly,
Chris

On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Allison Manzino wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> Yes, there is. If you record one track and want to play an instrument to the 
> other track, just cue the first track and hit command option R then hit VO 
> space on the button  and it will begin recording. I demonstrate this in my 
> Amadeus podcast since this is not intuitive. To check it out:
> http://gwenna.podbean.com
>  Have a great day and best of luck with Amadeus. I just love it!
> 
> Allison
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:20 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> 
>> Hi Allison,
>> One other question. Have you heard of a way to record on that second track 
>> at the same time you're playing the first one?
>> 
>> Friendly,
>> Chris
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: Webkit and Audible

[Randy Stegall]

I have been using it for the last day.  It is like night and day here.

Randy
On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:58 PM, Mike Reiser wrote:

> I can confirm this here, is working well here as well.
> 
> Mike
> 
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Re: Webkit and Audible

[Sarah Alawami]

www.webkit.org.

Take care.
On Jun 23, 2010, at 7:11 PM, Olivia Norman wrote:

> how do I get it?
> Olivia
> "Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower", Steve Jobs
> 
> On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:25 PM, David McLean wrote:
> 
>> Hello, I downloaded the latest version of webkit this evening and it seems 
>> so far to be working with Audible.  Those of you like me who have had 
>> problems with Safari v5 might want to give it a try.
>> So far so good!
>> 
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Re: amadeus question

[Sarah Alawami]

Sure. What I do is just hit cmd option r from the scrol area and it will create 
 a new track. then I hit th ebutton tha tsays button an daway I go.

S
On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:

> Hi Allison,
> One other question. Have you heard of a way to record on that second track at 
> the same time you're playing the first one?
> 
> Friendly,
> Chris
> 
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importing safari bookmarks into webkit

[Mary Otten]

Can this be done? I just installed the latest webkit, and it has solved the 
Audible problem. I'd like to import my safari bookmarks into webkit; can that 
be done? 

Mary

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Re: New window versus new tab

[Chris Moore]

Linda, 

I totally forgot about Command +  (accent) `  yes this is a very good way to 
cycle through open windows, quicker then VO+F2, although pressing F2 twice 
reads out the title of the current window and the title of the other open 
windows when moving the cursor keys up and down.  That is what I love about the 
Mac, there are so many ways to do the same task which enables you to find a way 
that suits you instead of being forced to do it one way only.

Chris 
On 24 Jun 2010, at 00:27, Linda Adams wrote:

> Chris,
> 
> Yes, your explanation was very good.  BTW, I've been using
> command-accent to cycle through windows.  Since I've gotten used to
> that, I guess I'll stick with it.
> 
> Linda
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:40 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: New window versus new tab
> 
> 
> Ok I can appreciate why this might be confusing.  For myself when I was
> sighted a few months ago I always preferred tabs as it visually keeps
> the desktop tidy and keeps all your safari windows in one place.  Plus
> if I was on several different websites such as Amazon or Play i could
> quickly compare prices between the two sites instead of having to keep
> moving open windows around.
> 
> As a blind user now I guess it just comes down to what you are used to
> and comfortable with  With tabs I can quickly cycle through them with
> Control + TAB.  But equally so with open windows you can VO+F2 and then
> select the window from the list.
> 
> So there is no right or wrong way, I would just say for a sighted person
> I think most people would prefer tabs.
> 
> Does this answer your question?
> 
> Chris 
> On 23 Jun 2010, at 23:24, Linda Adams wrote:
> 
>> Chris and others,
>> 
>> I need a simple basic explanation of the difference (in Safari) 
>> between opening a new window with command N versus opening a new tab 
>> with command T. Are they used differently in some way?
>> 
>> TIA,
>> Linda
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:17 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating
> 
>> by form field and text
>> 
>> 
>> In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give 
>> you an indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from
> 
>> having to use the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page
> 
>> is loaded.
>> 
>> Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.
>> 
>> To open a new tab, press command + T
>> To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback 
>> and you can also write to accessibil...@apple.com
>> 
>> Hope this helps
>> On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read
>>> automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This 
>>> will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not 
>>> need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice 
>>> to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set
> on
>> 
>>> instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening. 
>>> Jumping
>> 
>>> by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I believe it 
>>> is
>> 
>>> needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know that you could
>>> browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you activate quick 
>>> nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with the down arrow 
>>> key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to the text edit 
>>> field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has not told me
> or
>> 
>>> did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater thanks for the
>>> suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow, twice, to get
> 
>>> to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a new tab, or 
>>> will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
>>> + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
>>> Thanks,
>>> alfredo
>>> 
>>> --
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: New window versus new tab

[Sarah Alawami]

Now how do I move to a new tab? I'm still kind of stumpped on that one.

Take care.

S
On Jun 23, 2010, at 10:56 PM, Chris Moore wrote:

> Linda, 
> 
> I totally forgot about Command +  (accent) `  yes this is a very good way to 
> cycle through open windows, quicker then VO+F2, although pressing F2 twice 
> reads out the title of the current window and the title of the other open 
> windows when moving the cursor keys up and down.  That is what I love about 
> the Mac, there are so many ways to do the same task which enables you to find 
> a way that suits you instead of being forced to do it one way only.
> 
> Chris 
> On 24 Jun 2010, at 00:27, Linda Adams wrote:
> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> Yes, your explanation was very good.  BTW, I've been using
>> command-accent to cycle through windows.  Since I've gotten used to
>> that, I guess I'll stick with it.
>> 
>> Linda
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:40 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: New window versus new tab
>> 
>> 
>> Ok I can appreciate why this might be confusing.  For myself when I was
>> sighted a few months ago I always preferred tabs as it visually keeps
>> the desktop tidy and keeps all your safari windows in one place.  Plus
>> if I was on several different websites such as Amazon or Play i could
>> quickly compare prices between the two sites instead of having to keep
>> moving open windows around.
>> 
>> As a blind user now I guess it just comes down to what you are used to
>> and comfortable with  With tabs I can quickly cycle through them with
>> Control + TAB.  But equally so with open windows you can VO+F2 and then
>> select the window from the list.
>> 
>> So there is no right or wrong way, I would just say for a sighted person
>> I think most people would prefer tabs.
>> 
>> Does this answer your question?
>> 
>> Chris 
>> On 23 Jun 2010, at 23:24, Linda Adams wrote:
>> 
>>> Chris and others,
>>> 
>>> I need a simple basic explanation of the difference (in Safari) 
>>> between opening a new window with command N versus opening a new tab 
>>> with command T. Are they used differently in some way?
>>> 
>>> TIA,
>>> Linda
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Moore
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:17 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Have a question on selecting multiple item and navigating
>> 
>>> by form field and text
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In the voice utility VO+F8 you can activate sounds and this will give 
>>> you an indication when a web page has loaded.  This will save you from
>> 
>>> having to use the auto speak tor page summary read out when a web page
>> 
>>> is loaded.
>>> 
>>> Quick Nav is toggled on and off by pressing left and right together.
>>> 
>>> To open a new tab, press command + T
>>> To cycle through the open tabs select  Control + Tab
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> If you want to send apple any feedback go to www.apple.com/feedback 
>>> and you can also write to accessibil...@apple.com
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps
>>> On 23 Jun 2010, at 07:58, Alfredo wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks for verifying my suspicion that having the page read
 automatically made me not land on an edit field automatically.  This 
 will help me tremendously as I am an avid internet user and do not 
 need to know if a page is loaded or not.  Although, it would be nice 
 to have an audio feedback when the page loads, or the option to set
>> on
>>> 
 instead of having the page be read automatically upon opening. 
 Jumping
>>> 
 by element would be a great feature, a time saver, and I believe it 
 is
>>> 
 needed, I will write about about this.  I did not know that you could
 browse the web with such ease using quick nave, you activate quick 
 nave by pressing the up arrow key in conjunction with the down arrow 
 key right?  Thanks for the command VO + J, to jump to the text edit 
 field, I did not this existed as the starting guide has not told me
>> or
>>> 
 did not tell me, or explained this.  Even greater thanks for the
 suggestion to click command + L, then VO + right arrow, twice, to get
>> 
 to do a Google search.  Do you know if this will open a new tab, or 
 will it just replace the webpage I am on?  Is the control
 + option +T command used in voice over or in jaws?
 Thanks,
 alfredo
 
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 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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 For more options, visit this group at
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Re: importing safari bookmarks into webkit

[Esther]

Hi Mary,

You shouldn't need to import any of your Safari bookmarks.  When you  
use Webkit, you're using Safari with a slightly tweaked underlying  
engine. Everything else that you set up for Safari is still there.   
What happens is that Webkit produces nightly developer builds that  
incorporate all the changes that are being worked on.  Generally,  
especially later into a cycle, these are improvements. Sometimes, bugs  
will get introduced into a nightly build, since there are different  
groups working on the same framework.  I remember the time when they  
decided to redefine the access key combination for Safari in Webkit to  
be Control+Option, because that key combination wouldn't conflict with  
other applications -- somebody didn't realize that VoiceOver was  
already those keys, and it took about 3 months to get the fix changed  
back.


Cheers,

Esther


Mary Otten wrote:

Can this be done? I just installed the latest webkit, and it has  
solved the Audible problem. I'd like to import my safari bookmarks  
into webkit; can that be done?


Mary



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