Re: [lubuntu-users] State of PPC
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > My estimation of things is that Lubuntu on PPC mostly works, given a few > caveats. All we need to do to release PPC is for all of the test cases to > be completed successfully (regardless of whether or not there are bugs) and > that marked on the QA tracker for the final testing of each milestone. If > we don't have that done, Canonical will not let us release it. > > PPC was what brought me originally to Lubuntu, so there's a special place > for it in my heart. Having an OS make that old hardware work was very > refreshing and introduced me to the real power and mission of Lubuntu. > > However, I haven't ran PPC in a long, long time. That being said, I'm not > of much help. We rely on the community of users to help out. When I don't > see testing happening in the community, it makes me think that I'm not the > only one that's neglected their PPC machines. > @wxl: I also came to linux in hopes of keeping what were perfectly adequate computers viable until they actually broke, some of which have and others are still yet running. One problem for my own machines is that they have started to fall below the system requirements, either for RAM or CPU, even for Lubuntu--which reduces the practicality of using them for work a day computers. However, when I installed Lu 14 LTS on several of my computers there were "glitches" and I thought "I won't be upgrading after this" . . . but Lu 16 LTS has actually run better than 14 on both of my PPC computers. Would I need to upgrade them again, probably not if support is available for kernel and browser for a few years more. And, agreed, a team of "one" is not really a team, it shouldn't fall to wxl to do everything he can to keep PPC going for Lubuntu. In terms of releasing Lu 16 for PPC I would concur that it is for all intents and purposes, fine. I posted here about the jaggy graphics of window dragging, that has been around since 14.04 . . . otherwise, generally good from my somewhat limited use of it on my iBook G4. I'm taking time to mention again that on the Apple Hardware User forum, a small, mostly ignored and Siberia-like sub-forum on the Ubuntu User forums . . . there are a lot of folks in Europe now coming to the forum to get help with there AmigaOne machines, that use the motorola processor . . . and so there could be new enthusiasm for PPC coming to Lubuntu. What I can do in the coming **weeks** is to try to run through some of the QA tests on my iBook G4 for the installed Lubuntu 16.06 system. Also, with wxl's permission I could re-post his email here about the "State of PPC" on the apple user sub-forum, and see if that will garner any response(s)??? At least as far as getting some testing on the QA for what might be the last hurrah for PPC and Lubuntu . . . . F -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] [lubuntu-devel] State of PPC
@wxl It would be sad but I understand if Lubuntu drops PPC. I believe 16.04 is a solid release for PPC. However I do believe that PPC will not completely die away. Like Fritz said Amiga is producing PPC hardware. Talos is considering producing a modern PPC system. I know these projects are small but they are out there. I one issue that those of us who have Apple PPC machines need to have is managed expectations. We are using old machines. Most devs are working on AMD64 or ARM. This is not to say there all is lost. I know that the latest version of mesa 12.0 will have improvements of Radeon cards on PPC. I am running Gentoo on my PowerBook G4 and am tracking the mesa dev branch and can verify that I have working 3D acceleration. It is no means perfect but an improvement to what I had before. We need to be patient and be willing to do some work (i.e. Bug reporting and possible debugging ourselves to help upstream). Most do not have the hardware we have anymore. Also if Lu and Ubuntu-Mate decide to drop PPC this is not the end of the world. Debian and Gentoo still support PPC. They do not provide the same out of the box experience that Lu does and require work (esp Gentoo ) but they are out there. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 22, 2016, at 1:59 PM, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > > As you can see from the page on [PPC][1], the architecture has only community > support from Ubuntu. Lubuntu has been trying as much as we can to support > this, but the fact of the matter is that we have no developers on our team > that can actually help with PPC bugs. > > The best you can hope for is that kernel developers (mostly, the issue is > with drivers) might have some interest in fixing bugs. However, with only > community support, that's unlikely. Most of the focus on PPC has been on the > server side of things, where graphics just don't come into play. > > My estimation of things is that Lubuntu on PPC mostly works, given a few > caveats. All we need to do to release PPC is for all of the test cases to be > completed successfully (regardless of whether or not there are bugs) and that > marked on the QA tracker for the final testing of each milestone. If we don't > have that done, Canonical will not let us release it. > > PPC was what brought me originally to Lubuntu, so there's a special place for > it in my heart. Having an OS make that old hardware work was very refreshing > and introduced me to the real power and mission of Lubuntu. > > However, I haven't ran PPC in a long, long time. That being said, I'm not of > much help. We rely on the community of users to help out. When I don't see > testing happening in the community, it makes me think that I'm not the only > one that's neglected their PPC machines. > > The reality of the situation is that there has been much talk throughout the > Ubuntu community over the past few years about getting rid of i386. If that > happens, I can't imagine that Canonical keeping PPC. With that in mind, I > think the end of PPC Lubuntu is coming regardless of what our feelings are. > > Furthermore, the Lubuntu Team is a small one and we often lack the capacity > to do the things that we need to do. PPC is just stretching us even thinner, > and into an area few of us really have the experience, knowledge, resources, > or time to deal with. > > That said, I'm inclined to suggest we start the process of removing PPC. We > managed to release an LTS, which is the only version we even bother with PPC > on. All we would need to do is ensure that all the point releases for Trusty > and Xenial get published. That would put us out until about August 2018. > > I think ultimately this will be better for the team. Most importantly, > though, I think it will be better for the PPC users that I fear we can't > really support and who we often leave with a frustrated experience. > > What do you think? > > [1]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC > -- > @wxl | http://polka.bike > Lubuntu Release Manager & Head of QA > Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact > Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader > Ubuntu Membership Board & LoCo Council Member > Eugene Unix & GNU/Linux User Group Co-Organizer > -- > Lubuntu-devel mailing list > lubuntu-de...@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-devel -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] Fujitsu Lifebook S761 (scroll wheel-pad issue)
@Israel, xinput list-props "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" | grep Capabilities Synaptics Capabilities (320): 1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 xinput list-props "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" https://paste.ubuntu.com/20652740/ So.. can i temporary set up a new user 'testuser' and do some tests there without affecting my main user config how do i make sure that my tests only affect the testuser account? is it just a matter of putting that config in the /home of that user and make my changes there?? :-) synclient shows me that i'm getting closer. synclient -l Parameter settings: LeftEdge= 1759 RightEdge = 5287 TopEdge = 1640 BottomEdge = 4494 FingerLow = 25 FingerHigh = 30 MaxTapTime = 180 MaxTapMove = 232 MaxDoubleTapTime= 100 SingleTapTimeout= 180 ClickTime = 100 EmulateMidButtonTime= 75 EmulateTwoFingerMinZ= 282 EmulateTwoFingerMinW= 7 VertScrollDelta = 105 HorizScrollDelta= 105 VertEdgeScroll = 1 HorizEdgeScroll = 0 CornerCoasting = 0 VertTwoFingerScroll = 1 HorizTwoFingerScroll= 0 MinSpeed= 1 MaxSpeed= 1.75 AccelFactor = 0.0379147 UpDownScrolling = 1 LeftRightScrolling = 1 UpDownScrollRepeat = 1 LeftRightScrollRepeat = 1 ScrollButtonRepeat = 100 TouchpadOff = 0 LockedDrags = 0 LockedDragTimeout = 5000 RTCornerButton = 2 RBCornerButton = 3 LTCornerButton = 0 LBCornerButton = 0 TapButton1 = 1 TapButton2 = 3 TapButton3 = 0 ClickFinger1= 1 ClickFinger2= 1 ClickFinger3= 0 CircularScrolling = 0 CircScrollDelta = 0.1 CircScrollTrigger = 0 CircularPad = 0 PalmDetect = 0 PalmMinWidth= 10 PalmMinZ= 200 CoastingSpeed = 20 CoastingFriction= 50 PressureMotionMinZ = 30 PressureMotionMaxZ = 160 PressureMotionMinFactor = 1 PressureMotionMaxFactor = 1 ResolutionDetect= 1 GrabEventDevice = 0 TapAndDragGesture = 1 AreaLeftEdge= 0 AreaRightEdge = 0 AreaTopEdge = 0 AreaBottomEdge = 0 HorizHysteresis = 26 VertHysteresis = 26 ClickPad= 0 looks like i need to find the correct config for these settings. CircularScrolling = 0 CircScrollDelta = 0.1 CircScrollTrigger = 0 CircularPad = 0 Scrolling could also be nice as 'scrub-wheel' for audio sequensers, and video editors CircularPad could be interesting for panning over an image in gimp Can't beleive that nobody has explored this any deeper yet. Thanks a bunch, i'm still a bit nervous about screwing this up. i'll play with this tomorrow, and hope the CPU doesn't cook my leg. For now i just like to see this scrollpad working, and would be cool if this would be working for ever Ubuntu user with this type of laptop. (All Lifebook S series) I'll read this post again tomorrow, my brain is a bit fried at the moment. It looks like this should be simple but this evening the penny doesn't seem to drop. It could be a sunstitch... On 2016-07-23 02:35, Israel wrote: Ok, this will show (numerically) your touchpad capabilities (feel free to run it without grep to get the whole shebang, which would be good to post to the list) xinput list-props "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad" | grep Capabilities Ok, so here is the synclient tutorial LIST the things synclient can configure synclient -l It might be a greaat idea to run synclient -l > $HOME/initial-touchpad-setup this way you have a backup and a base to test from and go back to. you can then setup your device by settings those values individually... Feel free to save your preferences as a script and start it automatically when you log into your user for example: #/bin/bash synclient MaxTapTime=180 MaxTapMove=221 MaxDoubleTapTime=180 SingleTapTimeout=180 ClickTime=100 EmulateMidButtonTime=75 EmulateTwoFingerMinZ=282 EmulateTwoFingerMinW=7 VertScrollDelta=100 HorizScrollDelta=100 VertEdgeScroll=1 HorizEdgeScroll=0 CornerCoasting=0 VertTwoFingerScroll=0 HorizTwoFingerScroll=0 TouchpadOff=0 LockedDrags=0 LockedDragTimeout=5000 RTCornerButton=0 RBCornerButton=0 LTCornerButton=0 LBCornerButton=0 TapButton1=0 TapButton2=0 TapButton3=0 ClickFinger1=1 ClickFinger2=1 ClickFinger3=0 GrabEventDevice=1 TapAndDragGesture=1 ClickPad=0 This is just one I use in a window manager (not Lubuntu), so you will need to modify it as your to
Re: [lubuntu-users] State of PPC
On Jul 23, 2016 7:48 AM, "Fritz Hudnut" wrote: > Also, with wxl's permission I could re-post his email here about the "State of PPC" on the apple user sub-forum, and see if that will garner any response(s)??? Yes, please. I'm not just trying to make some proclamation of how it is. This is a community supported matter, so if the community will support Lubuntu PPC, I'm all for carrying on like normal. I have struggled to even bring the topic up, so if the community supports ending it, I want to hear about that, too. No matter what, I don't feel comfortable acting on this alone. > At least as far as getting some testing on the QA for what might be the last hurrah for PPC and Lubuntu . . . . Well, ideally we still need testing on the Trusty/Xenial point releases, at minimum. Any support you can drum up there would be appreciated. And as Herminio said, there is still support in the Linux community for PPC. If this spells the end for Lubuntu PPC, at least we can say it's not the end for Linux (or UNIX— see NetBSD, for example) PPC. -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] State of PPC
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Walter Lapchynski wrote: > > At least as far as getting some testing on the QA for what might be the > last hurrah for PPC and Lubuntu . . . . > > Well, ideally we still need testing on the Trusty/Xenial point releases, > at minimum. Any support you can drum up there would be appreciated. > @wxl: OK, I posted a request for Lubuntu PPC testers on the Apple User forum . . . sans your quoted material . . . . I'll see if that stirs up anything . . . in a "formal" sense of the word. In the meanwhile I visited the QA tracker, and the report that "zero" testing has been done is not entirely accurate, as it looks like "erhard-f" filed some bug reports and passed some aspect of Lubuntu . . . which in comparison to the other options is not that much different . . . . Looking around, the only Lubuntu Xenial QA slot that is still "testing" is now, the "daily" other "final" and the ".1" have been "archived." Looking somewhere else the Lubuntu PPC options have a line strike through them . . . so technically the only tests left to be done are the "daily" iso??? So, I'm typing this in my iBook G4, running Lu 16.04, other than the fan blowing all of the time it has to think, it's fine--ready for primetime in PPC-land. My new phone company, the one that took over Verizon landline has my DSL throttled down to less than 2 MB/sec . . . I don't have time to play with downloading a daily, my install went well with the beta . . . for sure I mentioned this at various junctures . . . doesn't seem like there is any test to do for the beta . . . updated/upgraded as of today??? I vote for kicking it out and see how many people download the PPC iso . . . it's kind of wimpy to have it be this close to release, but then, not . . . . Hopefully there will be some boost from the sub-forum . . . . F -- Lubuntu-users mailing list Lubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/lubuntu-users
Re: [lubuntu-users] State of PPC
Greetings, I wanted to clear things up to make sure we're all on the same page. Basically, I want to clarify what Nio and Walter have said on various threads (if these are the points they are getting at, correct this email if I'm wrong). The Lubuntu team LOVES the PowerPC users. We love that you guys decide to use Lubuntu. As Walter said, it holds a special place in his heart, and while I haven't had the same experiences as him, i386 holds a special place in my heart (but that's for a different day). So I'd like to give you a little insight on how we release milestones. We have testers, just like you (you could call them users as well) that test the images for us. Nio tests on real hardware, I tend to test on VMs, but I have an i386 machine I plan on using in the future, and hardware testing is *essential* for releasing a final release of any kind. These testers report the tests on the ISO QA Tracker[1]. We then go through the completed tests, and if there are no critical bugs, we mark as done. We also add the bugs attached to the release notes. It's a pretty nice system, and I really like it. What has been happening with PPC is that people report problems on the mailing list, say that it works, etc. but it isn't on our minds to check the mailing list for possibly week old reports that might not be true any more (we might have fixed bugs, emphasis on any more). So if nothing is on the tracker for PPC, we unfortunately have to make the decision to say, "well, because it seems like nobody tested PPC, we aren't going to release an image." Also, sometimes that isn't even our decision. When the global release team (for all flavors) sees that it isn't reported on the tracker, they won't copy the ISOs to the release folder. So in a technical way, it's not that we don't care about the mailing list, we *literally* can't release PPC images if they aren't reported on the tracker. I appreciate that they are tested, but please, use the latest image (which I'm fairly confident y'all are doing, but just in case you aren't) and report them on the tracker. If you have a problem, please report it. I'm not going through these mailing list threads and reporting bugs from your emails because I don't have a PowerPC machine to confirm on (I would if I could). When we fix a bug and want to get it into 16.04 through a verification process, nobody checks PowerPC. And yet there are complaints when I make a statement such as: > This is because we received *zero* testing for PowerPC in 16.04.1. If you > want these images in the future, make sure they are tested. :) The reason being, nobody has taken the time to report on the tracker, write the bugs, and go through the process to actually bring it to our attention and allow us to release. We appreciate that the testing is done, just please report it more officially on the tracker. Let me make this clear, thank you for bringing up issues and talking about PPC on the mailing lists. Just please, someone report a bug if you have a problem. And when the team puts out a call for testing, please test so we know it works. And report your results on the tracker. :) One thing that doesn't go through our mind on release day is to cite bugs that aren't reported. That's why, if you see bugs are reported and are on the release notes for the previous release, if you install the image on your PPC machine, please comment on the bug and let us know your results. Even something generic like: "This issue still exists on the Yakkety Alpha 2 image." helps us a lot. Also, when you write about a problem on the mailing list, please couple it with a bug. Then, if you have a PPC machine, confirm that bug. :) You may be asking, "I have a PPC machine with image X (not the Xenial image, an example release) on it, how do I confirm bugs?" Subscribe to the Lubuntu Packages Team bugs[2](you have to be a member of the Lubuntu Packages Team), so you can receive a notification when someone reports a bug. Then, you can confirm it on your PPC install. It also helps if you go through bugs and say something like: "This bug affects the Yakkety Alpha 2 image." Maybe even do it on bug day[3]. ;) We love you guys. We really do. Just please follow through with getting bugs reported and images checked. Fritz, you said that there's a community for PPC on Lubuntu. We have Alpha 2 coming up this week and 14.04.5 coming up the week after that. Please, ask some people in the community to give us a hand. Even if it's one tester and one machine, if someone with a PPC machine completes the tests on the tracker, we can release. If not, then please don't cry when we don't release the image, because nobody followed through. And for all the people with PPC installs, don't, after release, say, "oh wait, hey, you forgot PPC!" and then test, expecting us to release. That's the reason we put out calls for testing *before* the release. To get *testing* . :) To answer Fritz's email with the information I just gave: > OK, I posted
