Re: [Lubuntu-qa] an iso for 'all' intel/amd computers

[Jörn Schönyan]

On 25/05/13 16:59, Nio Wiklund wrote:

Hi everybody,

I suggest that we try to make a Lubuntu iso file, that can boot in
'all' computers with intel/amd CPUs.


Why? I fail to see any benefit from this.


This idea isn't that bad! For example, for service reasons. One pendrive
that can boot on both UEFI and non UEFI, 32bit machines for reinstalling
GRUB, scan for viruses on machines with Windows, repartitioning for
everyone being used to help people with their computers, a pendrive like
this is awesome. But at the very moment, not easy.

Jörn




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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] an iso for 'all' intel/amd computers

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 25.05.2013 21:07, schrieb Nio Wiklund:

On 2013-05-25 19:11, Yorvyk wrote:

On 25/05/13 16:59, Nio Wiklund wrote:

Hi everybody,

I suggest that we try to make a Lubuntu iso file, that can boot in
'all' computers with intel/amd CPUs.


Why? I fail to see any benefit from this.

I think it is good to have a portable live or persistent live system on
a USB pendrive. You need not carry a computer, only the pendrive, and
you can borrow almost any computer to run it.


It used to be possible with 32-bit systems, but now there are more
and more UEFI systems, which need a 64-bit version to boot. Many of
them can be switched between UEFI and CSM, but some are locked to
UEFI. This limits the portability of live CD/USB drives and
persistent live USB drives, they work

- either 32-bits iso files for 'all' non-uefi systems - or 64-bits
iso files for 'all' 64-bit systems.


Which seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Reasonable if you intend to use it to install, but it is better for a
portable system, if there are no such limits.


What would be needed to make a 32-bit system 'licensed' to run in
UEFI?


What makes you think you need anything licensed to boot with UEFI?

Reading the discussions about UEFI, and how people are trying to make it
dual boot with Windows 8 in UEFI. Maybe licensed is the wrong term,
maybe the term is 'a key'.

Try to boot a USB drive, any 32-bit Ubuntu family version! It will not
work. All these USB pendrives work when I switch UEFI off. But this is
not possible in some computers.

Clonezilla i686-pae boots from CD, Lubuntu 12.04 i386 non-pae boots
neither from CD nor USB. Lubuntu 12.04 64-bits boots from CD. Ubuntu
12.04.2 boots from USB, but I think it is 'licensed'. A brand new
download of debian-live-7.0.0-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso does not boot from
USB, but it boot fine when no UEFI.

I tried recently with a grub2 and iso system in a USB pendrive. I
could boot it in my Toshiba with UEFI (with a complaint, but it
booted), but after booting into Windows, the 'grub2 and iso pendrive'
was no longer bootable. Maybe it was blacklisted by some UEFI
janitor, maybe something was overwritten. So I think such a generally
portable live system needs to be created in a professional way with
the licensing tools, that are used in the 64-bit iso files.


With out any error messages etc. this could be totally unrelated to UEFI.

I can try again, but what I know is that for example Ubuntu 12.04.2
boots from USB repeatedly without any problems. A 32-bit system with the
same 'license' or 'key' should work too, and would be a good candidate
for a truly portable system.


I think an iso for 'all' intel/amd computers would be interesting
also for Xubuntu.

I'm willing to test it in low-end and high-end computers, but I
don't know how to create it.

Best regards Nio


I did a bit investigation yesterday. The signed kernel isn't that 
important. Currently, Linux AND Windows aren't able to boot 32bit on 
UEFI systems.


Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] zRAM

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 03.06.2013 20:15, schrieb Ali Linx (amjjawad):

Hi,

I have seen some emails talking about zRAM. I still have no time to go 
through these emails and yes, I'm referring to the endless threads 
about Firefox vs Chromium (I lost counting, how many threads so far?) 
and I've noticed many mentioned zRAM.


JUST for the record, there is still no version for 13.04

https://launchpad.net/~shnatsel/+archive/zram 



I have done a test before while zRAM enabled [1] and at the beginning, 
it was helpful but at the end of the day, the result was the same if 
it is disabled or not installed. I think, IMHO, it depends (case to case).


However, I think it is helpful, even little bit. Sometimes, you can 
feel and see the difference. Some other time, the difference will be 
little bit different.


I need to find sometime to read these threads :)

[1] - 
http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/05/facebook-on-lubuntu-1210.html 



--
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*amjjawad *
*Start Ubuntu 
*


/Test Machine: ASUS F3F Laptop - //Intel Core Duo T2350 @ 1.86GHz with 
489MB RAM/




Ali, in the official repo, there is the package zram-config - the PPA 
should not be needed anymore.


Jörn
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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Chromium vs Firefox : Need testimonies

[Jörn Schönyan]

I would PERSONALLY prefer Chromium (on my machine I use Google Chrome): 
mainly because it has better Flash support. Even Chromium can use 
Google's Pepper-Flash, Firefox can not. But on old machines, Flash is 
often an issue that doesn't work (no hardware acceleration, no SSE2, low 
ram etc.)


All in all, Firefox would be the better option, for really old machines. 
I'm not sure if Chromium v26 on 32bit is a problem - it should be 
possible to crosscompile on a 64bit machine, but I'm not sure if the 
official repos support crosscompiling.


Short: Firefox +1



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) 
mailto:amjja...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Phill Whiteside
mailto:phi...@ubuntu.com>> wrote:

And for the 'old machines'? Last thread we were talking about
was making lubuntu-core more easily available. On these low
RAM machines, which as Chad has stated are limited to v25
Chomium unless he can get v27 to build in 32 bit, I again fail
to see the advantage? F/fox as with slimmed down memory usage
is good to go now. The clock is ticking and decisions have to
be taken fairly soon. Maybe this is a subject best discussed
for 14.04 LTS.

Regards,

Phill.



I agree with Phill. Why every decision must take forever? it is
very simple and IMHO, it needs few days to decide not many releases :(
We have started the Firefox vs Chromium discussion long time ago.
Now, Firefox has proved itself to be much better than Chromium in
many cases. Firefox is not as heavy as it used to be and
performance wise, better, at least in my case and others confirmed
too.

Can we just take a vote?
Just a vote, without going endless debate?

I strongly suggest, to start, yet again, a new thread with one
statement: Please vote or your best server for 13.10 (Firefox or
Chromium).

As easy as this.

IMHO, endless debate is useless, with all due respect to everyone :)

Also, I'm one of those who is LOST, totally lost. How many threads
so far about this? I lost counting :/

Thanks!

-- 
*Best Regards,*

*amjjawad *
*Start Ubuntu
*

/Test Machine: ASUS F3F Laptop - //Intel Core Duo T2350 @ 1.86GHz
with 489MB RAM/


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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] alpha testing

[Jörn Schönyan]

Short: +1

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] usb-creator-gtk fails to run on lubuntu13.04 beta 2, launchpad bug 1165200

[Jörn Schönyan]

quote{
Yuri (wdwp) wrote on 2013-05-15: Comment #6
I installed python-gudev and gir1.2-gudev-1.0 packages. usb-creator-gtk
works.
}
On my productive system (wild mix of Xubuntu with some Lubuntu & KDE 
parts), I have installed gir1.2-gudev-1.0, but not python-gudev. 
usb-creator-gtk works fine in ~90 percent, but sometimes not. That 
means: it crashes every time at the end of the process, but 90 percent 
the pendrive boots anyway.


2. Is it important that the usb-creator is part of the iso, or can we
accept that it must be installed? Should we assume, that the user has
internet access? If we assume internet access, the usb-creator need not
be part of the iso, but installing it might be part of the instructions
in the test case for the live session.



Personally, I would prefer usb-creator on the image, if it is possible. 
We have to think on persons without internet access. But Lubuntu has the 
700 Megs limit, which other flavours don't care about anymore. That 
won't be easy in the future.


Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] The Only Official Channels of Lubuntu

[Jörn Schönyan]

+1

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] usb-creator-gtk fails to run on lubuntu13.04 beta 2, launchpad bug 1165200

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 07.06.2013 01:24, schrieb Jonathan Marsden:

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013, at 09:02 AM, nio wiklund wrote:


  The startup disk creator alias usb-creator-gtk is used to create a
  persistent live USB drive in the Lubuntu iso test case 'Live
  Session'. We need it to run the iso testing. Who can tell the devs
  that there is a solution to be implemented?

Looks like the workaround is

   sudo apt-get install gir1.2-gudev-1.0

and so the fix is to add gir1.2-gudev-1.0 to the Recommends: line of the
usb-creator debian/control file for usb-creator-gtk .

Wouldn't it be better to make it a strong dependency? In my opinion, it 
has to work without recommendations. And there is something really wrong...
I haven't looked in the code, but usb-creator-gtk has a dependency on 
Python3. But it seems, it needs python-gudev - which is a Python2 
library. You have to know, Python 2 and 3 are rather incompatible. Maybe 
something has gone wrong while porting vom Python2 to Python3.


Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] [Lubuntu-comms] Lubuntu IRC Meetings

[Jörn Schönyan]

I agree with you, Phill.

Jörn


Am 10.06.2013 22:18, schrieb Phill Whiteside:
I think about once a month is enough, I've had a look at the release 
schedule for Saucy and suggest the following (based on development 
freezes and testing cycle).


Tue 18th June (pre Alpha 1)
Tue 16th July (pre Alpha 2)
Tue 20th Aug (Final Feature Freeze, week before Beta 1)
Tue 24th Sept (Final Freeze, Final Beta, Lead up to Doc Freeze.)
Tue 15th Oct (Release Candidate)

Regards,

Phill.




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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] [Lubuntu-comms] Lubuntu IRC Meetings

[Jörn Schönyan]

+1

Am 10.06.2013 22:54, schrieb Phill Whiteside:

I put this to a vote... 20:00 UTC Please +1 / 0 / -1 for voting.

Tue 18th June (pre Alpha 1)
Tue 16th July (pre Alpha 2)
Tue 20th Aug (Final Feature Freeze, week before Beta 1)
Tue 24th Sept (Final Freeze, Final Beta, Lead up to Doc Freeze.)
Tue 15th Oct (Release Candidate)


Regards,

Phill.
On 10 June 2013 21:33, Jörn Schönyan <mailto:joern.schoen...@web.de>> wrote:


I agree with you, Phill.

Jörn


Am 10.06.2013 22:18, schrieb Phill Whiteside:

I think about once a month is enough, I've had a look at the
release schedule for Saucy and suggest the following (based on
development freezes and testing cycle).

Tue 18th June (pre Alpha 1)
Tue 16th July (pre Alpha 2)
Tue 20th Aug (Final Feature Freeze, week before Beta 1)
Tue 24th Sept (Final Freeze, Final Beta, Lead up to Doc Freeze.)
Tue 15th Oct (Release Candidate)

Regards,

Phill.





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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] [Saucy] - LigthDM

[Jörn Schönyan]

A possible replacement would be LXDM, afaik it's the only one display 
manager which is lighter than LightDM. But: it's heavily buggy. Look at 
the screenshot in the german Ubuntu forums: 
http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/probleme-nach-der-installation-von-lxdm/


So I don't think there can be much done at the very moment. Whoever 
doesn't want LightDM could remove it and start X on his own. But I don't 
think that a distro should do that.


Jörn
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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Linux Kernel and the Future of Lubuntu

[Jörn Schönyan]

We don't have to care about 386 machines, I think. We DO care about 
machines without PAE-extension, that should be enough.


Jörn




Hi Phill,

I'm afraid you did not understand my email correctly. This is not what 
I was expecting :)


BACK to archive: "we keep Lubuntu 10.04 because the drop of hardware 
support and some hardware will not work with other releases".


FUTURE: one day, some other hardware will NOT be supported.

That in short is what my first email is talking about.
Long story? my first email will tell you in details :)

Is that clear enough now?

--

"All of us are smarter than any one of us."

*Best Regards,*
*amjjawad *
*Start Ubuntu 
*


/Test Machine: ASUS F3F Laptop - //Intel Core Duo T2350 @ 1.86GHz with 
489MB RAM/






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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Upcoming Virtualbox IRC classroom session (has a wiki page)

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 28.06.2013 10:54, schrieb Lars Noodén:

On 6/28/13 11:50 AM, Jackson Doak wrote:

there is a session for that too.


I'm not finding the session for Qemu:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/Virtualbox

Is it on some other page?

Regards,
/Lars

Look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Raring 
there is the session about KVM and VirtManager.


Jörn
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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] [Feedback Needed] zram-config

[Jörn Schönyan]

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. 4GB in a virtual machine. Notebook has 8GB
5. No, not direct. Maybe it affects the pf-kernel which has no zram.
6. For machines like my one absolutely not necessary. Could impact 
performance for games or other situations where the cpu is more or less 
at 100% usage.


Jörn


Am 17.07.2013 15:21, schrieb Ali Linx (amjjawad):

Dear Members of Lubuntu Community,

As all of you know, zram-config has been added by default to Saucy 
Build for Lubuntu - special thank to Leszek Lesner, the one  who 
suggested to add it by default [1] - and some of the community did 
many tests and shared the results and I was one of those [2].


After I resigned from Lubuntu and while I'm still a member of this 
community but with no leading roles anymore, I do need your help. I 
have joined other communities and started to help them with testing 
and soon, other tasks.


I'm trying to suggest the same idea of adding/enabling zram-config by 
default in order to increase the performance but one of those 
communities, is not really interested or to be more accurate, they are 
asking for more data that support the arguments. I have offered to 
carry on many tests and have already sent my first report yesterday 
but they seem not yet convinced.


Long story short, if you could be so kind and nice, would you mind 
answering these simple Qs for me, please?


*_zRAM Feedback - Survey _*

 1. Have you noticed any improvement in the performance of your system
after zram has been enabled by default with Saucy Daily Build?
*(Yes/No)*
 2. Have you noticed any improvement to your CPU Usage (less CPU
Usage)? *(Yes/No)*
 3. Have you experienced any problems because of enabling zram by
default (system freezing, very high CPU usage, high temperature,
etc)? *(Yes/No)*
 4. You are testing Lubuntu Saucy with _ _ _ MB/GB RAM?
 5. In general, do you think adding zram will add more complications
to the kernel or to the system and cause some stability issues?
*(Yes/No)*
 6. Any other feedback/note you would like to share?


As always, thank you so much for your cooperation in advance.

This will not only help me or other communities,it will help Lubuntu 
to reassess the advantage/disadvantage of adding zram :)



[1] - 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2013-June/004445.html


[2] - http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2013/06/zram-testing-reports.html

P.S.
This should help me to convince them ;)

--

"All of us are smarter than any one of us."

*Best Regards,*
*amjjawad *
*Start Ubuntu 
*

*My Own Business *





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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] zRAM does not start in Lubuntu Saucy desktop alpha 2 32-bit

[Jörn Schönyan]

> It used to work. Can you figure out what is wrong now? And/or which 
package to blame for it? Best regards Nio


Was there a kernel update? Maybe it was compiled without zram for any 
reason.


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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Lubuntu 13.10 beta

[Jörn Schönyan]

I had Kubuntu Saucy installed on my machine, a normal install without 
virtualization. After updating, LightDM failed at boot. Endless 
Plymouth-screen. When I pressed Escape, I could read the boot messages 
which stated that LightDM failed.


I reported that bug, but noone else seems to have the problem. My 
temporary workaround was logging into tty1 and startx.


Am Montag, 16. September 2013, 10:19:59 schrieben Sie:
> Joern,
>
> I have the installed system in the vbox now. I can retry installing
> again. So please describe exactly what you want, and at what stage!


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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] zRAM broken on Raring?

[Jörn Schönyan]

There are freezes with ZRAM in Precise, too. I experience this both with 
original stack/kernel and the enablement stack from Raring. Sometimes 
while shutting down, sometimes after a long session or when the RAM is 
"full". After disabling ZRAM, there are no problems at all.


Jörn


Am 28.09.2013 01:32, schrieb Phill Whiteside:

Hi John,

the change in Saucy was that the config was altered so that it was 
used during the desktop install (Ubiquity), before that it was there 
just not used for the task of allowing ubiquity to run and install 
onto a system that we had the crazy situation of the installer needing 
more RAM than the actual installed system needs.


The testing team did many tests to find out just how low we could go 
with 'desktop installer'. They found ~ 384MB to be the minimum for it. 
As a server person, I use the alternate installs, but the desktop one 
is more new comer friendly :)


Regards,

Phill.


On 28 September 2013 00:06, John Hupp > wrote:


The news/announcements concerning Saucy tend to say something "new
in Saucy ... zRAM."

But zram-config is installed in my Raring i386 standard desktop
installation, and I didn't install it unless it came along as a
dependency for something.


On 9/27/2013 6:29 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote:

Sorry, I overlooked that John is running Raring. I didn't
think zRAM was
used in Raring, but of course, John can install and run it.
I'm glad you
corrected that mistake by me.

Best regards
Nio

On 2013-09-28 00:08, Phill Whiteside wrote:

hi Nio,

he is running Raring. The bug we see in Saucy on 1227202
is totally
un-related to the sudo parted -l issue.

Getting the race issue sorted out on un-mounting the zram
areas is what
the bug fix is. With all the tests I've done, the

  Error: /dev/zram0: unrecognised disk label

Error: /dev/zram1: unrecognised disk label

Has remained until I used the 3.12rc kernel. We will go
battle that
issue on Monday to see if we can find the fix. Also do
read
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1215379
as we
may be barking up the wrong tree with zram, and should be
using zswap.

Joe cannot tell us which is better to use, just that zswap
was in the
3.11.2 upstream kernel which has been imported into the latest
3.11.0-9.16 kernel.

It was Unit193 who pointed that issue out, and whilst
getting the race
crash sorted out, it appears that zswap is the updated system.

Regards,

Phill.


On 27 September 2013 22:54, Nio Wiklund
mailto:nio.wikl...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

 On 2013-09-27 23:28, John Hupp wrote:
 > On Raring, output from 'sudo parted -l' includes:
 >
 > Error: /dev/zram0: unrecognised disk label
 >
 > And syslog shows a slew of errors:
 >
 > Lubuntu kernel: Buffer I/O error on device
zram0, logical
 block 128247
 >
 > Syslog also indicates that half of memory was given
to zram to
 form its
 > block device.
 >
 > Does this mean that half of memory is dedicated to
something that
 isn't
 > working?  And perhaps that machines will hang when
swap is needed?
 >
 > I arrive at this line of questioning because I was
testing an LTSP
 > client using a Lubuntu LTSP server configured with
1 GB, and when
 I drop
 > the client memory configuration to 256 MB, the
*server* has hung on
 > several occasions when I was starting or stopping
Firefox on the
 client
 > (though in one case this coincided with the startup
of a SpiderOak
 > backup operation).   I didn't think of the Magic
SysRq keys at the
 time,
 > and nothing else was responding, so I did hard
shutdowns.
 >
 > I saw a post from Phill Whiteside recently
concerning a rush of
 activity
 > re a zram bug, but it seemed to be directed at Saucy.
 >
 > Are there solutions/workarounds?
 >
 You find a lot of details reading the commen

Re: [Lubuntu-qa] zRAM broken on Raring?

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 28.09.2013 11:31, schrieb Leszek Lesner:

Am 28.09.2013 11:03, schrieb Jörn Schönyan:
There are freezes with ZRAM in Precise, too. I experience this both 
with original stack/kernel and the enablement stack from Raring. 
Sometimes while shutting down, sometimes after a long session or when 
the RAM is "full". After disabling ZRAM, there are no problems at all.


As far as I know the Precise kernel is 3.2 so it should not be 
affected by the problem currently introduced by the 3.10.6 kernel. The 
same goes for raring which uses the 3.8 kernel. And I hope the ubuntu 
kernel devs did not port over the broken zram module from 3.10.6 to 
the raring kernel.

So there only might be two possibilities:
1. Its another bug.
2. Its not really freezing but just writing a whole lot of chunks to 
zram which causes the cpu to run at 100 % for a long time and making 
system usage unusable until the chunk is written to zram.


I am not 100 percent sure, as it is not my own machine :-/ myself, I 
haven't seen the freezes.
The second thing can happen when lots of memory needs to be compressed 
into ram and the cpu is not the fastest (single core for example). So 
basically more than 60% of ram needs to be compressed. This takes a 
longer time then and maybe halt user input for the time being.
So it would help if you could verify if thats the case for you and if 
it still halts when you give it some time to work. (not more than 10 
mins please :) If this is really the case there are ways to limit the 
ram that is available for compression (so limit it to 40% for example) 
or even tweak the swapping setting to set how big the chunks should be 
that are written to swap. (swap in this case made available from zram)
The owner waited at least 5 minutes, if it will unfreeze. The notebook 
is quite old, a Pentium M if I remember correct. It has 512 MB RAM and a 
VIA graphics card which I first suspected to cause the freeze :-)
Also in rare occoasions(so if you only have 1 GB RAM and zram only 
gives you 250 MB of swapspace and you need more) it might be useful to 
use zram in combination with swap space on harddrive. So it would than 
first swap out to zram until its full and then write to swap on hd.
As for the shutdown issue this is exactly where it might come to an 
hold for some seconds as it needs to clean zram (swap space by zram is 
basically unmounted and the contents is written back to ram by swapd 
or at least it is trying to write as much as possible back to ram)
Could be - I've set up a swap partition with 1,5 GB so this should in 
theory not be an issue.


Jörn
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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] PPC Image size

[Jörn Schönyan]

The few .debs on the isos are just a few megabytes, the problem is the
squashfs-compressed file system of Lubuntu itself.

Jörn


Am 11.10.2013 02:32, schrieb Jackson Doak:
> Is there  a way to find what .deb files don't use .xz yet? If i could
> find that list making all the programs compress more could work


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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] PPC Image size

[Jörn Schönyan]

Not 100% sure, but I think LZMA is used. Unfortunately, I can't find the
scripts that are used to generate the (L)Ubuntu images - I'm looking for
this for weeks now! :-)

I think, Julien has done the best possible, so that seems to be a dead end.

Jörn


Am 11.10.2013 11:00, schrieb Nio Wiklund:
> What about that squashfs compression? Is it the most efficient one with
> respect to size, or is it a compromise giving reasonable speed?
>
> For example, if gzip compression is used for squashfs, xz would might
> reduce the size ~20%. My experience is that xz is much slower
> compressing, but only slightly slower expanding.
>
> I guess this would be a big change, so not an option for 13.10, but
> maybe for the next version, 14.04 LTS :-)
>
> But squashfs might already use xz or some compression method with
> similar performance. Please tell us if you know about that!
>
> Best regards
> Nio


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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Fwd: final Lubuntu i386 desktop live

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 11.10.2013 20:08, schrieb JM:
>
> I think 256 MB RAM is too little for any modern system. Even the Ubuntu 
> Openbox Remix I
> work on, which has a few components less does not behave in a very snappy way 
> on a
> machine with so little RAM, and let's not forget what the GPU can bring or 
> remove, when
> it works with shared memory.
>  
> Regards,
> Mélodie
Has anyone of you ever tried to use the RAM of a graphic card as swap?
Look at this:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Maximizing_Performance#Using_the_graphic_card.27s_RAM

Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Next respin tested 2013-10-17 00:43 (06.43 CEST)

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 17.10.2013 10:47, schrieb Nio Wiklund:
> Hi Jörn,
>
> Do you mean for really old computers (pre Pentium II), that are not
> helped by fake-PAE? If you know there are people who need them, yes it
> is a good idea. (But I would think there are not many people trying to
> run any Ubuntu flavour in such computers nowadays. They probably try
> some linux distro with a really small foot-print. And there are such
> kernels available, maybe it is enough to link to them or maybe provide a
> mirror.)
According to Wikipedia, there are Pentium 3 that aren't capable of PAE.
I am thinking about this machines. But, I am not 100% sure if this is a
error on Wikipedia.
> I think fake-PAE is good enough to make the current 32-bit kernels work
> well with Celeron M and Pentium M CPUs.
>
> And there are 12.04 flavours and respins that promise long time support
> until April 2017, PreciseGnomeClassicTweaks, LXLE and Bodhi plus Xubuntu
> with LTS until April 2015.
>
> Best regards
> Nio
>
Yes, there are. But any of this use the "old" 3.2 kernel from Precise,
if I am correct.

Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] ZRAM, vm.swappiness and the future

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 26.10.2013 20:37, schrieb Leszek Lesner:
> == The new modern situation (with 13.10¹): ==
> * RAM + ZRAM
>
> The RAM is backed up by a SWAP partition which is stored on a virtual
> compressed ram device. Under Lubuntu
> 13.10 this device can use half of the physically available memory.
> Writing and reading to and from RAM is a hell lot faster than to disk
> (even to an SSD). This means there is no bootlneck
> when the system swaps out to ZRAM with its default swappiness settings.
> Setting the swappiness lower here would make a change but
> a very minor only (noticable only via benchmarks). And lowering it here
> might lead to a faster reaching of the second
> bottleneck. So avoiding swapping and letting the RAM be filled and
> swapping late especially when RAM is very full will slow down the
> system and produces noticable lags. Those lags might be even harder in
> this case because the pages need to be compressed into RAM and
> when new pages need to be placed into RAM at the same time this might
> lead to a long cpu 100% compressing decompressing moving loop.
> Letting the swappiness at default (60) or even set it higher to 100
> would help avoid this bottleneck as swapping early would avoid
> RAM running full too fast.
I can completely conform this. I did an experiment, because I have to
set up an old notebook in the next days, which only has 256 Megs of RAM
and is a working machine. Of course, the background is the EOL of WinXP.
There needs to be running a software called "ElsterFormular" which is
needed for the tax office in germany if you are self-employed. Funny
thing: you need Wine to run it - but there exists a linux version which
nobody can download because they say it is too expensive for them! But
that's another story.

ElsterFormular is quite big right now, so ZRAM is a lot of help. I set
up a VM and tried if everything would work. I just saw that it worked
and _then_ I tried to reduce the swappiness - I think I set it to 15 or
20, but I'm not 100% sure which of this it was. I didn't measure the
time, but at least it was twice as much time, likely more.
>
> So all in all when you see this scenarios I have to say that the default
> value of swappiness 60 makes the most sense as the default value
> of lubuntu. Changing it for the next release is something I would not
> recommend.
>
All in all, I second that.

Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Recruiting Testers (Was: Re: A New Team Leader for Lubuntu QA)

[Jörn Schönyan]

I already asked in the forums, but if someone really hears the call for
testing, it is no problem for me that I hold my hand over and talk to
them until this questions are cleared.

Jörn


Am 05.11.2013 21:55, schrieb Ali Linx (amjjawad):
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Joern  > wrote:
>
> I could ask for testers in the german Ubuntu forums, if Lubuntu is
> too low on manpower for Trusty Tahr and the future. 
>
> Jörn
>
>
> Hi Jorn,
>
> Needless to say, recruiting new blood is always a good idea. However,
> IMHO, the 'first' and 'top' priority for the time being is to find a
> new TL for this area who can later mange the new blood coming from
> Germany or any where else and carry on with the other task of QA TL :)
>
> Without a TL, managing those new people is going to be an overkill.
>
> We are lucky that the dirty work hasn't yet started. That is why,
> first we need to find a new TL and then, start recruiting.
>
> So, I'd say to wait a bit until we find our lucky guy ;)
>
> Thank you!
>
> -- 
> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> Best Regards,
> amjjawad 
> Areas of Involvement 
> My Projects 

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Recruiting Testers (Was: Re: A New Team Leader for Lubuntu QA)

[Jörn Schönyan]

Inline reply.

Am 06.11.2013 10:54, schrieb Ali Linx (amjjawad):
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Jörn Schönyan  <mailto:joern.schoen...@web.de>> wrote:
>
> I already asked in the forums, but if someone really hears the
> call for testing, it is no problem for me that I hold my hand over
> and talk to them until this questions are cleared.
>
> Jörn
>
>
> Hi,
>
> No worries, my friend and thank you for your help and support. As long
> as it is on a Forum, there is absolutely no need to rush. If someone
> will post on that thread, it will go up and so on. Once we have some
> update regarding the roles of both QA TL and Release Manager, we will
> ask you to update the thread and then, the real fun will begin :D
>
> Do we need to learn German Language ? :P
Of course I told them that we have a lot of different native languages
and english is our language for communication, so that they really
should have some knowledge about the english language :-)
>
> -- 
> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> Best Regards,
> amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
> Areas of Involvement <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/AreasOfInvolvement>
> My Projects <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/Projects>

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Recruiting Testers (Was: Re: A New Team Leader for Lubuntu QA)

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am 13.11.2013 23:13, schrieb Ali Linx (amjjawad):
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Jörn Schönyan  <mailto:joern.schoen...@web.de>> wrote:
>
> I already asked in the forums, but if someone really hears the
> call for testing, it is no problem for me that I hold my hand over
> and talk to them until this questions are cleared.
>
> Jörn
>
>
> Hello Jorn,
>
> WOW, time flies and moving crazily fast. 8 days already???!!! feels
> like 8 hours :)
Hello Ali and the other people here! Nearly I forgot this mail, there is
a lot of trouble here.
>
> Any update regarding recruiting New Testers from Germany?
> I believe it is good to go now although I/We have NOT yet heard any
> word neither from Julien (is he still alive by the way?) regarding the
> future of Lubuntu QA Sub-Team nor from anyone who might be interested
> to lead this team and help either as QA Team Leader or Release Manager
> but I believe, as my mentor and good friend Phill said, we can always
> go ahead and recruit new testers at the same time we do other things
> which it seems taking longer than expected :)
Well, I have someone who is interested in testing. We will see if he
will help us, he did not join the Lubuntu-QA-Team yet.
>
> Odd enough, I have posted on Facebook and Google+ asking for more
> Testers and other contributions but no one yet has shown any interest
> which is a bit weird :)
>
> I can re-do that posting and be 'more' specific. I mean, I can ask
> directly and specifically that we need 'more new' testers :)
The people from the german Ubuntu forum "ubuntuusers.de" asked me to
make a small article about Lubuntu, they want to know what we do here
and how it feels. Additionally, an overview over Lubuntu and it's
history would be nice. If anybody wants to help, I would be quite
confident :-)
>
> But IMHO, someone must be there to answer their Qs and I am not quite
> sure, if truth to be told, that Lubuntu QA Team is really ready to
> answer Qs at the moment :)
That is really a problem because some positions are not yet staffed.
>
> So, shall I ask on the Social Media for more testers? or shall I wait? :)
>
Should be fine, the work has to be done. The earlier, the better, I think.
> Thank you!
>
> -- 
> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> Best Regards,
> amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
> Areas of Involvement <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/AreasOfInvolvement>
> My Projects <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/Projects>

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Lubuntu 14.04 PPC Desktop

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am Donnerstag, 17. April 2014, 11:17:23 schrieb Lars Noodén:
> I'm more or less done testing the Lubuntu 14.04 PPC Desktop.  The
> repartitioning test cannot be passed and the image is over CD-sized.
> However, since there is a work-around using Gparted and the Alternate
> image still is CD-sized I'd grudgingly say "go".  Maybe for 14.04.1 the
> repartitioning can be fully functional.  What do the other testers think?
Hmpf, afaik PPC versions aren't LTS releases (not even kernels or X are 
maintained longer than 9 months). So there would be no point release for PPC. 
Please correct me, if I'm wrong.
> Regards,
> /Lars

Regards, Jörn


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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Utopic Unicorn QA report

[Jörn Schönyan]

Hello everyone, replies inline!

Am Freitag, 24. Oktober 2014 17:45:12 CEST schrieb Walter Lapchynski:

Good job this cycle everyone! Keep up the good work:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/UtopicFinalTestingReport

Meanwhile, Vivid Vervet is available in the dailies (though 
currently building). Keep that testing going:

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds

We all will need to work hard if we are to land LXQt for 15.04. 
The first step (unless the boss says otherwise!) is to make 
decisions on default applications, as most of ours are GTK only. 
That being said, give us your comments here:

https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming/+spec/1410-qt-archive
Well I really hope that we start with LXQt in this cycle. The feedback is 
really good. It's mentioned as a potential XFCE killer!


I'm now running "stable" 0.8, compiled in my PPA ppa:joern-schoenyan/lxqt, 
the packaging is taken from the Siduction people (if you read this: thank 
you very, very much!) and my WIP update manager is also included. LXQt has 
much potential, and I think 15.04 is a good first release for it:


* we have a solid LTS
* we can introduce our new technology in 15.04, refine it with our user's 
feedback in 15.10 and then iron out bugs for the next LTS


Finally PPC folks, I need to look deeper into Boris' suggestion 
about boot parameters with Radeon graphics. If anyone can test 
that and comment on the bug, that would be great:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1377878
If we can at least have a good workaround, that would be great. 
Then we start looking at Qt support of PPC.


What do you guys think about PPC only for LTS versions? It 
might give us the extra time we seem to often need.
Even if I'm not affected, I wouldn't be happy with that, but it is 
reasonable. Walter is right saying that we have a lot of work to do. So we 
shouldn't be burdened with this.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

@wxl

Best regards, Jörn!

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Roadmap proposal for Lubuntu 15.04

[Jörn Schönyan]

Hi everyone, replies inline.

Am Dienstag, 28. Oktober 2014 17:38:56 CEST schrieb Aere Greenway:
There is a new Ubuntu variant, called "ubuntuMATE", which has a 
desktop based on Gnome 2.


In reading about it, I got the impression (which may not be 
correct) that they are maintaining Gnome 2 (and its libraries).
No, they are switching to GTK3. At the moment the MATE desktop has the 
version number 1.8 (1.9 = dev). 1.10 will have experimental GTK3 support, 
but it's not recommended for distributions to compile with GTK3. I guess 
that will be the case with 1.12.
If that is actually the case, then gtk2 may be available for 
the foreseeable future.
With the switch to GTK3, even the MATE team will likely lose interest for 
the GTK2 libs.




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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] OT: Survey on "Still running PPC?"--The Radeon Affair

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am Donnerstag, 6. November 2014 00:08:25 CEST schrieb Walter Lapchynski:

I would recommend that all of you test the LXQt packages. Not the
prototype iso (unfortunately the build system doesn't build PPC, boo),
but the PPA packages (ppa:lubuntu-dev/lubuntu-daily). It won't give
you a good sense of what it's like to have everything included (and
missing the stuff that doesn't need to be there), but it will be a
good "go/no-go" test for whether or not we have any problems with the
Qt packages.
The PPA doesn't builds for PPC, too. So it means that possible testers need 
to compile the packages on their own. Would someone be able to 
(cross-)compile and host an interim solution?

wxl

Jörn


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[Lubuntu-qa] Building from PPA (was: OT: Survey on "Still running PPC?"--The Radeon Affair)

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am Donnerstag, 6. November 2014 19:10:41 CEST schrieb Walter Lapchynski:

me:

I would recommend that all of you test the LXQt packages. Not the
prototype iso (unfortunately the build system doesn't build PPC, boo),
but the PPA packages (ppa:lubuntu-dev/lubuntu-daily).


Jörn:
The PPA doesn't builds for PPC, too. So it means that possible 
testers need

to compile the packages on their own. Would someone be able to
(cross-)compile and host an interim solution?


Doh! This might be a good excuse for me to learn packaging. If you can
help me with this aspect of it, I can figure out the compilation. I
have a 64 bit G5 so it should be relatively easy to cross compile for
both 32 and 64 bit.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems all I need is a webserver to host
a repo, so I could just put the end results on my people.ubuntu.com
site. If not, someone steer me in the right direction.

tl;dr willing to do the work, but need some help on the finer details.

The packaging is done, only compiling is needed, you can download source 
with


apt-get source [package]

and for building, you should take a look into pbuilder. For hosting the 
packages, there is a tool called reprepro. Hope that helps!


Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] arm support?

[Jörn Schönyan]

Am Dienstag, 11. November 2014 01:44:25 CEST schrieb Walter Lapchynski:

Well, boss, what do you say? The majority of arm machines out there
are what I would consider "low end" machines. What do you think? I can
start assembling people.

wxl

Hi Walter, hi to all the other people!

Supporting ARM would be awesome, but ARM isn't ARM. There is the RaspPi, 
which we can't support because it is ARMv6 - Ubuntu only builds for ARMv7 
and better. You can compare this to PAE or CMOV. On the other side, there 
are many ARMv7 devices that _could_ be supported. But even they differ 
compared to each other. Most devices need the U-Boot bootloader, some other 
have really exotic boot loaders. Fortunately, most graphic chips like Mali 
have at least basic support in the mainline kernel.


Conclusion: supporting ARM means in fact: support a small range of devices. 
AC100 had some Nvidia Tegra chips, so that could be a start. Nvidia is 
quite open to linux on their boards / tablets. It could even be worth 
asking them for a tiny bit of help.
Another range of devices that could be worth supporting: Allwinner devices. 
They are common, they are cheap and the best: they can't get bricked by 
testing. Nearly 100% of them can boot from SD cards, even if you managed to 
destroy the OS on the internal memory. I have a very cheap Allwinner tablet 
here and did some experiments in the past, but had not much success. I had 
Lubuntu running, but no Wifi, no working Touchscreen and so I abandoned it 
for a while. It has a low-end A10 processor, but if it could be hardware 
accelerated with newer kernels, it would be quite powerful, compared to the 
size.


Best regards, Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] LXQt 0.9.0 released with some interesting implications

[Jörn Schönyan]

I‘m maintaining stable packages for vivid in my PPA ppa:joern-schoenyan/lxqt, 
but there is no working metapackage yet - I hope I can do it tomorrow.

The PPA contains LXQt and some Qt apps: Trojita (Mail), QPS ( task manager), 
Qlipper (clipboard manager), CMST (network manager), Cute Update Manager and 
maybe some more I can't remember right. I would like to build live isos as a 
tech preview, but I'm facing problems with Ubiquity.

Best regards, Jörn

Am 10. Februar 2015 23:03:19 MEZ, schrieb Walter Lapchynski :
>Here's the latest update from upstream.
>
>Some interesting bits as it relates to Lubuntu development:
>
> * Qt 5.3 is the minimum required version
> * KDE bits required: KWindowSystem replaces XFitMan, KGuiAddons
>replaces Xlib (now more Wayland friendly)
> * improvements in power management may be a good reason to get rid of
>xfce4-power-manager
>* drag and drop issues in pcmanfm, etc. to be fixed in upcoming Qt
>5.4.1
>
>-
>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 13:58:34 +0100
>From: Jerome Leclanche 
>Subject: [Lxde-list] [ANN] LXQt 0.9.0 released!
>To: lxde-list 
>
>We are proud to announce the release 0.9.0 of LXQt, the Lightweight Qt
>desktop environment
>
>This release drops all compatibility with Qt 4. It also features heavy
>internal cleanups and refactorings. Qt 5.3 is now the minimum required
>version.
>
>LXQt 0.9 also brings in our first KDE Frameworks dependencies.
>KWindowSystem is a true-and-tested library for handling window events.
>It replaces our custom XFitMan library and will greatly help in
>becoming fully compatible with Wayland. KGuiAddons also replaces a
>hard dependency on Xlib in lxqt-panel.
>A huge thanks to the KDE team for making Frameworks available for
>projects like ours :-)
>
>Theme changes:
>- New theme: "Frost". A cold, dark theme courtesy of Inti Alonso.
>Screenshots available on lxqt.org!
>- A-Mego, Flat and Green have been deleted as they were low quality or
>too similar to other themes.
>- The old Dark theme has been merged with the Flat Dark theme from LXQt
>0.8.
>
>Please note that theme re-configuration will be needed if you are
>using one of the old themes.
>
>Component changes:
>- The functionality of the old lxqt-power has been restored into an
>"lxqt-leave" component. It is now part of lxqt-session.
>- Panel background is now configurable
>- The main menu plugin can now be navigated using the keyboard
>- The Clock plugin has been merged into the World Clock plugin. It has
>received several changes and no longer requires ICU. Reconfiguring the
>clock may be required upon upgrading depending on your settings.
>- The power management component now supports displaying multiple
>batteries
>
>Other changes:
>- KWindowSystem replaces XfitMan in lxqt-panel, lxqt-runner,
>lxqt-session, lxqt-notificationd and lxqt-session.
>- KGuiAddons replaces a hard dependency on Xlib in lxqt-panel
>- A copy of xdg-utils is no longer bundled with LXQt. The minimum
>xdg-utils version required is 2012-03-02.
>
>It should be noted that Qt 5.4 has several regressions from 5.3 which
>impact LXQt to some extent. While most have been worked around, drag &
>drop issues with PCManFM have not. Thankfully, that issue is fixed in
>the upcoming Qt 5.4.1 release. See the following pages for more
>details:
>- https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-43436
>- https://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt540-KnownIssues
>
>Downloads are available on downloads.lxqt.org. Please note that the
>location has changed since 0.8 and the old download location is no
>longer available.
> - http://downloads.lxqt.org/lxqt/
>
>Issues? Suggestions? Wild new ideas? Everything happens on our Github
>issue tracker:
> - https://github.com/lxde/lxqt/issues
>
>Want to contribute? We are always looking for new developers, now more
>than ever. Take a look at our new beginner's guide on contributing
>code and jump in:
> - https://github.com/lxde/lxqt/wiki/Contributing-code
>
>Thank you for flying LXQt!
>
>The LXDE team
>
>-- 
>@wxl
>Lubuntu Release Manager, Head of QA
>Ubuntu PPC Point of Contact
>Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Team Leader
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] [Lubuntu-admins] AppGrid for Lubuntu?

[Jörn Schönyan]

Hi everyone, replies inline.

On Montag, 28. September 2015 14:18:45 CEST, Rafael Laguna wrote:

Hi, guys:

Yes, Phill is right. Jörn and I made plans for improving the 
apps installation in Lubuntu, as well as managing PPAs. We'll 
have results soon. Jörn is working hard on it.
Yes - I don't have a time plan, but the new Software Center will be ready 
before the release of 16.04, I guess at the end of the year we will have a 
preview. The Update Manager is ready for testing, but missing 2 or 3 
features I really want to have and needs to be a bit more fail-safe, as it 
wasn't tested under hard conditions (bad or no internet connections and 
stuff).
About App Grid, it needs an Ubuntu One account that sometimes 
it kicks  you out, so it's buggy. Ubuntu MATE is considering 
adopt it as their own Software Centre and dropping USC which is, 
in my opinion, a mistake, because the guys in Canonical are also 
improving USC for the Ubuntu Touch market and the forthcoming 
Snappy packages.
I've tested all the alternative software centers in the past, but not even 
one satisfied me. But of course, that is only my personal opinion.
So I think we're in the right path. I know you don't see much 
"dev" activity lately, but believe me when I tell you we're 
working hard on the next LXQt version of Lubuntu and polishing 
every single detail to improve your desktop experience.
Right, I think the new software center could solve some problems we have, 
make Lubuntu much easier for newcomers and it could be a core feature of 
Lubuntu. All the things following now are still in the planning and there 
was no real discussion about it, so this is a great moment for further 
ideas and improvements, please feel free to comment and express your 
thoughts about it, I would really appreciate it.


The new software center will be in fact a more modern version of our 
traditional LSC, written in Qt and with a more robust backend for 
application data (for more informations, google "Appstream").


But I imagine a new feature to customize the Lubuntu experience for the 
users needs. Some people want an office computer and they should get it. 
The new software center should be able to "ask" the user what he needs: 
office suite, graphics software, font managing, driver support for printers 
from a specific brand or simmilar. Multimedia users may want a tool to cut 
and convert videos, so they should have a nice collection of tools to 
choose from. I think there are a lot of simmilar use cases. Afaik Ubuntu 
MATE has a feature like this in their welcome screen.


This would even allow us to ship a minimal (or core) version like Xubuntu 
does, with only a bare desktop and very limited applications or no 
applications at all, without leaving users alone in their application 
choice and initial setup of their machine. Our problem being restricted to 
an iso size of ~700 megabytes wouldn't hurt that much in the future.


I hope my explanation was clear enough, feel free to ask questions about 
it.

Cheers!

Rafael Laguna
Lubuntu Artwork Team


Happy discussions and have a nice week!

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Lubuntu on 4k screens

[Jörn Schönyan]

On Montag, 2. November 2015 10:16:34 CET, Lars Noodén wrote:

If now is the time to submit wishlist items, during the next cycle I
expect that high resolution screens will become more common and would
ask if it is possible for Lubuntu, and Ubuntu in general to prepare for
high resolution screens for 16.04?
To make things short: LXDE does not support HiDPI screens. Of course, there 
are workarounds, like adjusting the DPI in xorg.conf or setting a larger 
font size. LXQt should work pretty good with HiDPI screens, as Qt5 has 
settings for these scenarios.

Regards,
Lars


Best regards, Jörn

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Re: [Lubuntu-qa] Lubuntu on 4k screens

[Jörn Schönyan]

On Montag, 2. November 2015 21:58:44 CET, Brendan Perrine wrote:

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 21:31:01 +0200
Lars Noodén  wrote:


Thanks.  What about the default applications and their
On other thing I have a question about does Qt5 have settings 
for making a larger cursor? I remember this being complicated in 
LXDE. 
I assume that the LXQt team will integrate HiDPI support, it is only one 
line of code. About cursors: there are different sizes like 24x24px or 
48x48px in some cursor themes.


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