Re: Ritmo intavolatura

[Andrew Bernard]

Are you trying to make  lute tablature?

While Lilkpond can do various tab formats, with the old script examples 
you are showing would you be better off with one of the many specialized 
and excellent lute tablature programs? You have not given us much 
information to go on regarding the context in which you are working and 
asking. Most of the lute tab programs have all the nice old script and 
handwriting fonts apart from being dedicated to the area.



Andrew


Mario Moles wrote on 31/03/2021 5:44 PM:

Hi lilyponders

you know how to make this?

Thanks

Re: Custom Format

[Aaron Hill]

(For your reference, do try to remember keeping the mailing list on 
future emails.  This ensures wider visibility and continuity of the 
discussion for all users.  Also, those of us who participate on the list 
are sometimes busy with other work, so personal contact can often result 
in delayed or missing responses.)



Could you point me to a place in the docs where I could understand
what your solutions/functions are doing?


While not exhaustive, I would direct you to the Extending manual [1].  
It is a good starting point; in particular, it covers how LilyPond 
intermingles its own music syntax with that of Scheme.


[1]: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/extending/index.html



This looks like exactly what I want. Thank you for your efforts.
I will give each of these a shot and let you know how that goes.


Since LilyPond already uses numbers for durations, you might consider 
writing numeric pitches in alphabetic form, since this most clearly 
disambiguates pitches from durations.  Here is an example of defining 
custom note names in LilyPond:



\version "2.22.0"

#(define (define-custom-note-names language notes)
  (set! language-pitch-names
(acons language notes language-pitch-names)))

#(define-custom-note-names 'numeric-english
  `((zero . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 NATURAL))
(one . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP))
(two . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 NATURAL))
(three . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SHARP))
(four . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 NATURAL))
(five . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 NATURAL))
; ...
  ))

#(define-custom-note-names 'numeric-roman
  `((z . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 NATURAL))
(i . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP))
(ii . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 NATURAL))
(iii . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SHARP))
(iv . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 NATURAL))
(v . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 NATURAL))
; ...
  ))

\language "numeric-english"
{ zero'4 four'8 five' two'2 }

\language "numeric-roman"
{ z'4 iv'8 v' ii'2 }


NOTE: I've abbreviated the definitions above, but you should be able to 
continue the patterns as needed.



-- Aaron Hill

AW: Custom Format

[torsten.haemmerle]

Hi Callum,

 

In the first place, I don’t understand how your numeric code could ever handle 
accidentals correctly.

Looking into your PDF document, I can’t see any distinction between D# and Eb, 
for instance.

 

And your table states: 9 “Minor sixth”. But how would you code an augmented 
fifth, then?

Etc.

 

All the best

Torsten

 

Von: lilypond-user  Im 
Auftrag von Callum Cassidy-Nolan
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. März 2021 02:31
An: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Betreff: Custom Format

 

Hi there,

 

I have just become aware of lilypond. 

 

I would love to use it, but I have a particular way I interact with music. 

 

Particularly I don't use letter names, but instead I use numbers, to understand 
what I mean, please take a look at my document: 
https://gitlab.com/cuppajoeman/music/-/blob/master/diagrams/standard_to_semitones.pdf

 

I just saw a basic example in the documentation, something like this: 

 

 

\version "2.22.0"
{
  c' e' g' e'
}

In my system I would write something like this:

 

\version "2.22.0"
{
  0' 4' 7' 4'
}

I am assuming some sort of parsing could be done to my files to convert it into 
the correct format, and then could be parsed by lilypond. Could anyone let me 
know how I could do something like this?

Thanks in advance, 



 

 

 

Re: Custom Format

[Callum Cassidy-Nolan]

Hi Aaron,

Thanks for reminding me about the mailing list - my email client only put in 
your email when I pressed reply - so I have to enter it manually (proton mail 
web client).

> Since LilyPond already uses numbers for durations, you might consider
> writing numeric pitches in alphabetic form, since this most clearly
> disambiguates pitches from durations.  Here is an example of defining
> custom note names in LilyPond:

Thanks, I will think about how I could incorporate that if I find the number 
syntax unwieldy.

I have used the search function on the docs: 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/index#top for the term 
`make-pitch` and in the http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/extending/ 
but I wasn't able to find an explanation of what that does.

Edit) After searching - it was the fourth search result on here: 
https://www.google.com/search?btnG=Google+Search&brute_query=make-pitch&q=site%3Alilypond.org%2Fdoc%2Fv2.21+make-pitch
 here is the link: 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.21/Documentation/internals/scheme-functions

Here is it's definition:

Function: ly:make-pitch octave note alter

octave is specified by an integer, zero for the octave containing middle C. 
note is a number indexing the global default scale, with 0 corresponding to 
pitch C and 6 usually corresponding to pitch B. Optional alter is a rational 
number of 200-cent whole tones for alteration.

Could you explain why 6 usually corresponds to the pitch B and not always?

Also I am new to Scheme and still trying to wrap my head around your original 
function:

#(define (: n)
   (apply
ly:make-pitch
(cons (1- (floor (/ n 12)))
  (list-ref `((0 0) (0 ,SHARP) (1 0) (1 ,SHARP)
  (2 0) (3 0) (3 ,SHARP) (4 0)
  (4 ,SHARP) (5 0) (5 ,SHARP) (6 0))
(modulo n 12)


Here is my best guess, for each element in the following list - apply the 
function make-pitch to each element.

floor (/ n 12 ): is representing how many octaves fit into this number? Why do 
you subtract this number from one?

The list-ref thing is choosing one of the elements from that list , but I don't 
fully understand what an arbitrary element from that list actually is, for 
example what does (3, SHARP) mean?

If you could help clarify any of this, it would be appreciated,
Callum

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 1:20 PM, Aaron Hill  
wrote:

> (For your reference, do try to remember keeping the mailing list on
> future emails. This ensures wider visibility and continuity of the
> discussion for all users. Also, those of us who participate on the list
> are sometimes busy with other work, so personal contact can often result
> in delayed or missing responses.)
>
> > Could you point me to a place in the docs where I could understand
> > what your solutions/functions are doing?
>
> While not exhaustive, I would direct you to the Extending manual [1].
> It is a good starting point; in particular, it covers how LilyPond
> intermingles its own music syntax with that of Scheme.
>
> [1]: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/extending/index.html
>
> > > This looks like exactly what I want. Thank you for your efforts.
> > > I will give each of these a shot and let you know how that goes.
>
> Since LilyPond already uses numbers for durations, you might consider
> writing numeric pitches in alphabetic form, since this most clearly
> disambiguates pitches from durations. Here is an example of defining
> custom note names in LilyPond:
>
> 
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> #(define (define-custom-note-names language notes)
> (set! language-pitch-names
> (acons language notes language-pitch-names)))
>
> #(define-custom-note-names 'numeric-english
> `((zero . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 NATURAL)) (one . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP)) 
> (two . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 NATURAL)) (three . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SHARP)) 
> (four . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 NATURAL)) (five . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 NATURAL)) 
> ; ... )) #(define-custom-note-names 'numeric-roman`((z . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 
> NATURAL))
> (i . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 0 SHARP))
> (ii . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 NATURAL))
> (iii . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 1 SHARP))
> (iv . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 2 NATURAL))
> (v . ,(ly:make-pitch -1 3 NATURAL))
> ; ...
> ))
>
> \language "numeric-english"
> { zero'4 four'8 five' two'2 }
>
> \language "numeric-roman"
> { z'4 iv'8 v' ii'2 }
> 
>
> NOTE: I've abbreviated the definitions above, but you should be able to
> continue the patterns as needed.
>
> -- Aaron Hill

Re: AW: Custom Format

[Callum Cassidy-Nolan]

Hi Torsten,

You are correct, there is no distinction between these two notes, because in 
terms of pitch they are the same. I realize that my approach to music is 
non-standard, and when I made it I was not thinking about how that would play 
into formatting documents with it. I follow the same idea for intervals too.

I suppose you are asking me these questions because lilypad does differentiate 
between these different ways of saying the same note or interval? Could you 
give me some use cases where my notation would cause problems - I'd like to 
know for the future.

Personally I don't mind which it chooses, say D# or Eb, based on Aarons 
original function:

#(define (: n)
(apply
ly:make-pitch
(cons (1- (floor (/ n 12)))
(list-ref `((0 0) (0 ,SHARP) (1 0) (1 ,SHARP)
(2 0) (3 0) (3 ,SHARP) (4 0)
(4 ,SHARP) (5 0) (5 ,SHARP) (6 0))
(modulo n 12)

But having a way to over-ride it's value to be one or the other would be nice. 
As I am new to Scheme I don't know exactly how to do it, but my idea would be 
to have the following behavior.

Always choose the sharp version unless an optional argument is provided to the 
function which tells it to choose the flattened version. If someone could 
outline how I could implement that with Scheme, it would be awesome.

Best,
Callum

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 2:05 PM,  wrote:

> Hi Callum,
>
> In the first place, I don’t understand how your numeric code could ever 
> handle accidentals correctly.
>
> Looking into your PDF document, I can’t see any distinction between D# and 
> Eb, for instance.
>
> And your table states: 9 “Minor sixth”. But how would you code an augmented 
> fifth, then?
>
> Etc.
>
> All the best
>
> Torsten
>
> Von: lilypond-user  
> Im Auftrag von Callum Cassidy-Nolan
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. März 2021 02:31
> An: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Betreff: Custom Format
>
> Hi there,
>
> I have just become aware of lilypond.
>
> I would love to use it, but I have a particular way I interact with music.
>
> Particularly I don't use letter names, but instead I use numbers, to 
> understand what I mean, please take a look at my document: 
> https://gitlab.com/cuppajoeman/music/-/blob/master/diagrams/standard_to_semitones.pdf
>
> I just saw a basic example in the documentation, something like this:
>
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> {
>
> c' e' g' e'
>
> }
>
> In my system I would write something like this:
>
> \version "2.22.0"
>
> {
>
> 0' 4' 7' 4'
>
> }
>
> I am assuming some sort of parsing could be done to my files to convert it 
> into the correct format, and then could be parsed by lilypond. Could anyone 
> let me know how I could do something like this?
>
> Thanks in advance,

Re: Custom Format

[David Kastrup]

Callum Cassidy-Nolan  writes:

> Hi Aaron,
>
> Thanks for reminding me about the mailing list - my email client only
> put in your email when I pressed reply - so I have to enter it
> manually (proton mail web client).

I can find no public help pages, but judging from the screen shots, the
"Reply to All" button may be directly next to the "Reply to Sender"
button.  I may be misinterpreting the meaning of the icons.  A picture
says less than four words.

-- 
David Kastrup

AW: AW: Custom Format

[torsten.haemmerle]

Hi Callum,

 

The proper use of accidentals greatly enhances readability.

As in “your” numeric system, MIDI doesn’t care about accidentals, either, but 
MIDI has been designed for producing sound, not sheet music.

 

As a simple example, just take two triads: B major and C diminished.

Triads are supposed to be constructed by stacking thirds, and that’s what the 
reader expects.

 



 

All these chords (I hope the PNG file will survive) have been built from the 
numbers below, but only the first one will be readable resp. noticeable.

 

Note numbers 3 and 6, in these examples, will have to be a D# and F# in a B 
major chord, but an Eb and Gb in a C° chord.

 

That’s just one reason why accidentals matter in printed music.

 

All the best,

Torsten

 

Von: Callum Cassidy-Nolan c...@cuppajoeman.com   
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. März 2021 21:21
An: torsten.haemme...@web.de; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Betreff: Re: AW: Custom Format

 

Hi Torsten,

 

You are correct, there is no distinction between these two notes, because in 
terms of pitch they are the same. I realize that my approach to music is 
non-standard, and when I made it I was not thinking about how that would play 
into formatting documents with it.  I follow the same idea for intervals too.

 

I suppose you are asking me these questions because lilypad does differentiate 
between these different ways of saying the same note or interval? Could you 
give me some use cases where my notation would cause problems - I'd like to 
know for the future.

 

Personally I don't mind which it chooses, say D# or Eb, based on Aarons 
original function: 

 

#(define (: n)

   (apply

ly:make-pitch

(cons (1- (floor (/ n 12)))

  (list-ref `((0 0) (0 ,SHARP) (1 0) (1 ,SHARP)

  (2 0) (3 0) (3 ,SHARP) (4 0)

  (4 ,SHARP) (5 0) (5 ,SHARP) (6 0))

(modulo n 12)

 

But having a way to over-ride it's value to be one or the other would be nice. 
As I am new to Scheme I don't know exactly how to do it, but my idea would be 
to have the following behavior.

 

Always choose the sharp version unless an optional argument is provided to the 
function which tells it to choose the flattened version. If someone could 
outline how I could implement that with Scheme, it would be awesome.

 

Best,

Callum

 

 

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 2:05 PM, mailto:torsten.haemme...@web.de> > wrote:

 

Hi Callum,

 

In the first place, I don’t understand how your numeric code could ever handle 
accidentals correctly.

Looking into your PDF document, I can’t see any distinction between D# and Eb, 
for instance.

 

And your table states: 9 “Minor sixth”. But how would you code an augmented 
fifth, then?

Etc.

 

All the best

Torsten

 

 

Von: lilypond-user mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+torsten.haemmerle=web...@gnu.org> > Im Auftrag 
von Callum Cassidy-Nolan

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. März 2021 02:31

An: lilypond-user@gnu.org  

Betreff: Custom Format

 

 

Hi there,

 

I have just become aware of lilypond.

 

I would love to use it, but I have a particular way I interact with music.

 

Particularly I don't use letter names, but instead I use numbers, to understand 
what I mean, please take a look at my document: 
https://gitlab.com/cuppajoeman/music/-/blob/master/diagrams/standard_to_semitones.pdf

 

I just saw a basic example in the documentation, something like this:

 

 

\version "2.22.0"
{
  c' e' g' e'
}

In my system I would write something like this:

 

\version "2.22.0"
{
  0' 4' 7' 4'
}

I am assuming some sort of parsing could be done to my files to convert it into 
the correct format, and then could be parsed by lilypond. Could anyone let me 
know how I could do something like this?

Thanks in advance, 



 

 

 

 

Re: AW: Custom Format

[antlists]

On 31/03/2021 20:20, Callum Cassidy-Nolan wrote:
You are correct, there is no distinction between these two notes, 
because in terms of pitch they are the same.


Actually, they're not ...

If you're talking about "well-tempered" instruments - basically keyboard 
- then IN PRACTICE they are the same note, but the whole well-tempered 
system is a bodge to make sure instruments sound "okay" in any modern scale.


As soon as you move to instruments capable of playing any pitch (the 
violin family, the trombone family, probably others I've missed) or 
"bending" notes - basically all the wind instruments - then you'll find 
they tend to play circle of fourths or fifths, and not well-tempered, 
and d# and eb are most definitely different notes (although very close).


Cheers,
Wol

Re: AW: Custom Format

[David Kastrup]

antlists  writes:

> On 31/03/2021 20:20, Callum Cassidy-Nolan wrote:
>> You are correct, there is no distinction between these two notes,
>> because in terms of pitch they are the same.
>
> Actually, they're not ...
>
> If you're talking about "well-tempered" instruments - basically
> keyboard - then IN PRACTICE they are the same note,

Not even in practice.  They may be voiced using the same key, but if you
treat them as the same _note_, you might run out of fingers in scales or
chords.

That's even the case when playing a uniform keyboard like that of a
chromatic button accordion: chords have shapes in the notation and you
recognise their shape and translate it into finger patterns.  There
wouldn't be time to transform a chord into actions note by note
independently, like you'd need to do if accidentals were used
haphazardly ignoring the current harmonic context.

-- 
David Kastrup

Slurs and multiple voice writing in piano music

[Gabriel Borin]

Hello,

I have been trying Lilypond for a week now. For practice, I am trying to
copy a few piano pieces I am familiar with. In one of them, Chopin´s
Prelude n.2, I have been struggling to produce the output below (last four
bars of the prelude).

I couldn't manage to tie the A across the bars, due to the voice change.
And also in the second to last chord I have the same struggle. Every slur
that I open outside the <<{...} \\  {...}>> syntax, I am not able to close.
How should I proceed?

Sincerely,

Gabriel

RE: Slurs and multiple voice writing in piano music

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Gabriel,

Perhaps:

 

\version "2.22.0"

\relative c' {

  <<{d4. \acciaccatura f8 e d4. a8_~ \stemDown |

 a2}\\

{s1 \stemUp b4 b8. b16}>> s2 |

}

 

Mark

 

From: lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] 
On Behalf Of Gabriel Borin
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 6:59 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Slurs and multiple voice writing in piano music

 

Hello, 

 

I have been trying Lilypond for a week now. For practice, I am trying to copy a 
few piano pieces I am familiar with. In one of them, Chopin´s Prelude n.2, I 
have been struggling to produce the output below (last four bars of the 
prelude).

 

I couldn't manage to tie the A across the bars, due to the voice change. And 
also in the second to last chord I have the same struggle. Every slur that I 
open outside the <<{...} \\  {...}>> syntax, I am not able to close. How should 
I proceed?

 

Sincerely,

 

Gabriel

Fwd: Slurs and multiple voice writing in piano music

[Gabriel Borin]

-- Forwarded message -
De: Gabriel Borin 
Date: qua., 31 de mar. de 2021 às 23:15
Subject: Re: Slurs and multiple voice writing in piano music
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek 


I guess I solved it!! Tks, Marc

The code became (for the excerpt)

\version "2.22.0"
   <<{d4.\( \acciaccatura f8( e8) d4. a8_~\stemDown | a2 \clef "bass" 4  | 2\)} \\ {s1 \stemUp b'4 b8. b16}>>
<<{\phrasingSlurUp b4.\( c8 | 1\)\arpeggio} \\ {2\arpeggio}>>

Gabriel

Em qua., 31 de mar. de 2021 às 22:57, Gabriel Borin <
gabriel.s.bo...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> Hello, Mark
>
> That solved the note input, tks.
>
> How do I make that phrasing slur over? As far as I know, I would need to
> input it inside the <<{...} Of one of the voices, right?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gabriel
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 22:38 Mark Stephen Mrotek 
> wrote:
>
>> Gabriel,
>>
>> Perhaps:
>>
>>
>>
>> \version "2.22.0"
>>
>> \relative c' {
>>
>>   <<{d4. \acciaccatura f8 e d4. a8_~ \stemDown |
>>
>>  a2}\\
>>
>> {s1 \stemUp b4 b8. b16}>> s2 |
>>
>> }
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* lilypond-user [mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=
>> ca.rr@gnu.org] *On Behalf Of *Gabriel Borin
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 31, 2021 6:59 PM
>> *To:* lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> *Subject:* Slurs and multiple voice writing in piano music
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been trying Lilypond for a week now. For practice, I am trying to
>> copy a few piano pieces I am familiar with. In one of them, Chopin´s
>> Prelude n.2, I have been struggling to produce the output below (last four
>> bars of the prelude).
>>
>>
>>
>> I couldn't manage to tie the A across the bars, due to the voice change.
>> And also in the second to last chord I have the same struggle. Every slur
>> that I open outside the <<{...} \\  {...}>> syntax, I am not able to close.
>> How should I proceed?
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>> Gabriel
>>
>