"Padding" at system start

[Urs Liska]

Hi all,

in the threads
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-03/msg00234.html
and espcially
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-03/msg00356.html

I struggled with the behaviour of shifting a note column at system start
using its X-offset property. Obviously there's some threshold before it
takes any visible effect. Using an elaborate testing file drawing rulers
and boxes at different positions I now got to the bottom of the problem
- nearly. I'll write this down ASAP when I've fully understood the issue.

My challenge is to produce space at the beginning of a system to draw an
element of a fixed width. You can see that from the red box in the
attached PNG (which reflects the final solution). My initial idea to
calculate the missing space (from the distance between the clef and the
accidentals) and set NoteColumn.X-offset to that value didn't work (as
described in the earlier threads).

The attached PDF shows what happens when the X-offset is increased step
by step. The border of the system-start NonMusicalPaperColumn is
indicated with a blue line reflect the accidentals' origin and X-extent.

Obviously the reference point of the accidentals is the X position of
the note column minus the note column's X-offset, which you can see from
the fact that the distance of the pink vertical line always relfects the
X-offset value.

However, up to a certain point (in the example this is an X-offset of
4.875) the whole thing is shifted to the right and continuously
approaches the state when the pink line coincides with the box around
the accidentals (or when the accidentals' (car X-extent) has reached
zero. Up to that point increasing the X-offset of the note column
doesn't have a visible effect but only moves around the origin and the
accidentals' X-extent. But *after* that point increasing X-offset beyond
4.875 pushes the chord to the right as one would expect. It seems that
the pink reference point (recall: the note column's X position minus its
X-offset) remains stable, and it obviously is the point where by default
notes would start, as you can see from the last example in the PDF.

My conclusion of this is that LilyPond enforces a padding between the
clef (or time or key signature, which behave identially if present) and
the first note column. However, if there are accidentals attached to the
note column they are allowed to protrude into that padding area.

###

So, now finally comes my question: I have determined this padding to be
exactly 2 staff spaces wide, but I'm wondering if that is hard-coded in
LilyPond or ruled by a property. Actually I'd be surprised if it's not
possible to modify this aspect of appearance, but I have to know if I
can simply insert the "2" into my calculations or if I have to retrieve
that value from a property to make the calculation robust.

I poked around in the reference for NonMusicalPaperColumn but didn't
find anything that looked promising. I can override its #'padding, but
that doesn't seem to have any effect at the system start (only within a
system).
It would seem that line-break-system-details would be a starting point,
but
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/explicit-staff-and-system-positioning
doesn't give anything for my question, and the IR for
NonMusicalPaperColumn and paper-column-interface seem to be happy with
"An alist of properties to use if this column is the start of a system."

Any clarification or pointers available?
Thanks
Urs

-- 
u...@openlilylib.org
https://openlilylib.org
http://lilypondblog.org



beginning-of-staff.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
\version "2.19.57"

\paper {
indent = 0
}

#(define draw-nc-position #f)
#(define draw-starter-border #t)
#(define draw-x-offset-ref #t)
#(define draw-accs-box #t)
#(define draw-intended-space #f)
#(define draw-clef-acc-dist #f)

#(define assumed-padding 2)
#(define intended-space 4)

#(set-object-property! 'seen 'backend-type? boolean?)

#(define (distance-info tie)
   (let*
(;; our helper grobs
  (sys (ly:grob-system tie))
  (left-nh (ly:grob-parent tie X))
  (nc (ly:grob-parent left-nh Y))
  ; NOTE: For simplicity we don't handle missing accidentals
  (accs (ly:note-column-accidentals nc)))
(if (not (ly:grob-property nc 'seen))
(let*
  some lengths and props
 ((acc-x-extent (ly:grob-property accs 'X-extent))
  (acc-width (- (cdr acc-x-extent) (car acc-x-extent)))
  (left-acc-x-extent (car acc-x-extent))
  ;; first NonMusicalPaperColumn, includes clef, key and timesignature
  (staff-starter (first (ly:grob-array->list (ly:grob-object sys 'elements 
  (staff-starter-width
   (let ((ext (ly:grob-property
   staff-starter
   'X-extent)))
 (- (cdr ext) (car ext
  (staff-starter-x-pos (ly:grob-relative-coordinate staff-starter sys X))
  ;; position of note column, relative to syst

Re: lilybin php script (was: Re: (fwd))

[Martin Tarenskeen]

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:

I have added an -m option to specify midi file output to the script.



I have done some more finetuning on the script. What's new:

* A more verbose help message
* -u option to select newer unstable/devel version of lilypond

Todo:
This is growing in a tool that's actually usable.
Maybe it's time to add some author and licence/copyright stuff in the 
code. Any suggestions?



--

Martin#!/usr/bin/env php
 2) {
die($help);
}

$all = isset($opts['a']);
$download = isset($opts['d']);

$midi = isset($opts['m']);
if ($midi) {
$ext = '.midi';
} else {
$ext = '.pdf';
}

$unstable = isset($opts['u']);
if ($unstable) {
$stable = 'unstable';
} else {
$stable = 'stable';
}

if ($all || !$download) {
$url = 
'https://7icpm9qr6a.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/prepare_preview/' 
. $stable;
$result = json_decode(do_curl($url, [
CURLOPT_HTTPHEADER => ['Content-Type: application/json'],
CURLOPT_POST => 1,
CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS => json_encode(['code' =>
file_get_contents($files[0])]),
CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER => true,
]));
if (!$result->id) {
echo "ERROR:\n", $result->stderr;
exit(1);
}
if ($all) {
$files[0] = $result->id . $ext;
} else {
echo $argv[0], ' -d ', $result->id, $ext . "\n";
exit;
}
}

if ($all || $download) {
$url = 'https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/lilybin-scores/' . $files[0];
$file = fopen(@$files[1] ?: $files[0], 'w');
do_curl($url, [CURLOPT_FILE => $file]);
fclose($file);
}

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Re: "Padding" at system start

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Urs,

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> in the threads
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-03/msg00234.html
> and espcially
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-03/msg00356.html
>
> I struggled with the behaviour of shifting a note column at system start
> using its X-offset property. Obviously there's some threshold before it
> takes any visible effect. Using an elaborate testing file drawing rulers
> and boxes at different positions I now got to the bottom of the problem
> - nearly. I'll write this down ASAP when I've fully understood the issue.
>
> My challenge is to produce space at the beginning of a system to draw an
> element of a fixed width. You can see that from the red box in the
> attached PNG (which reflects the final solution). My initial idea to
> calculate the missing space (from the distance between the clef and the
> accidentals) and set NoteColumn.X-offset to that value didn't work (as
> described in the earlier threads).
>
> The attached PDF shows what happens when the X-offset is increased step
> by step. The border of the system-start NonMusicalPaperColumn is
> indicated with a blue line reflect the accidentals' origin and X-extent.
>
> Obviously the reference point of the accidentals is the X position of
> the note column minus the note column's X-offset, which you can see from
> the fact that the distance of the pink vertical line always relfects the
> X-offset value.
>
> However, up to a certain point (in the example this is an X-offset of
> 4.875) the whole thing is shifted to the right and continuously
> approaches the state when the pink line coincides with the box around
> the accidentals (or when the accidentals' (car X-extent) has reached
> zero. Up to that point increasing the X-offset of the note column
> doesn't have a visible effect but only moves around the origin and the
> accidentals' X-extent. But *after* that point increasing X-offset beyond
> 4.875 pushes the chord to the right as one would expect. It seems that
> the pink reference point (recall: the note column's X position minus its
> X-offset) remains stable, and it obviously is the point where by default
> notes would start, as you can see from the last example in the PDF.
>
> My conclusion of this is that LilyPond enforces a padding between the
> clef (or time or key signature, which behave identially if present) and
> the first note column. However, if there are accidentals attached to the
> note column they are allowed to protrude into that padding area.
>
> ###
>
> So, now finally comes my question: I have determined this padding to be
> exactly 2 staff spaces wide, but I'm wondering if that is hard-coded in
> LilyPond or ruled by a property. Actually I'd be surprised if it's not
> possible to modify this aspect of appearance, but I have to know if I
> can simply insert the "2" into my calculations or if I have to retrieve
> that value from a property to make the calculation robust.
>
> I poked around in the reference for NonMusicalPaperColumn but didn't
> find anything that looked promising. I can override its #'padding, but
> that doesn't seem to have any effect at the system start (only within a
> system).
> It would seem that line-break-system-details would be a starting point,
> but
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/explicit-staff-and-system-positioning
> doesn't give anything for my question, and the IR for
> NonMusicalPaperColumn and paper-column-interface seem to be happy with
> "An alist of properties to use if this column is the start of a system."
>
> Any clarification or pointers available?

I would have a look at LeftEdge.space-alist.  The 2.0 looks
suspiciously like first-note.fixed-space.

HTH,
David

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Re: "Padding" at system start

[Urs Liska]

Hi David,

Am 24. März 2017 16:26:44 MEZ schrieb David Nalesnik :
>Hi Urs,
>
>On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> in the threads
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-03/msg00234.html
>> and espcially
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-03/msg00356.html
>>
>> I struggled with the behaviour of shifting a note column at system
>start
>> using its X-offset property. Obviously there's some threshold before
>it
>> takes any visible effect. Using an elaborate testing file drawing
>rulers
>> and boxes at different positions I now got to the bottom of the
>problem
>> - nearly. I'll write this down ASAP when I've fully understood the
>issue.
>>
>> My challenge is to produce space at the beginning of a system to draw
>an
>> element of a fixed width. You can see that from the red box in the
>> attached PNG (which reflects the final solution). My initial idea to
>> calculate the missing space (from the distance between the clef and
>the
>> accidentals) and set NoteColumn.X-offset to that value didn't work
>(as
>> described in the earlier threads).
>>
>> The attached PDF shows what happens when the X-offset is increased
>step
>> by step. The border of the system-start NonMusicalPaperColumn is
>> indicated with a blue line reflect the accidentals' origin and
>X-extent.
>>
>> Obviously the reference point of the accidentals is the X position of
>> the note column minus the note column's X-offset, which you can see
>from
>> the fact that the distance of the pink vertical line always relfects
>the
>> X-offset value.
>>
>> However, up to a certain point (in the example this is an X-offset of
>> 4.875) the whole thing is shifted to the right and continuously
>> approaches the state when the pink line coincides with the box around
>> the accidentals (or when the accidentals' (car X-extent) has reached
>> zero. Up to that point increasing the X-offset of the note column
>> doesn't have a visible effect but only moves around the origin and
>the
>> accidentals' X-extent. But *after* that point increasing X-offset
>beyond
>> 4.875 pushes the chord to the right as one would expect. It seems
>that
>> the pink reference point (recall: the note column's X position minus
>its
>> X-offset) remains stable, and it obviously is the point where by
>default
>> notes would start, as you can see from the last example in the PDF.
>>
>> My conclusion of this is that LilyPond enforces a padding between the
>> clef (or time or key signature, which behave identially if present)
>and
>> the first note column. However, if there are accidentals attached to
>the
>> note column they are allowed to protrude into that padding area.
>>
>> ###
>>
>> So, now finally comes my question: I have determined this padding to
>be
>> exactly 2 staff spaces wide, but I'm wondering if that is hard-coded
>in
>> LilyPond or ruled by a property. Actually I'd be surprised if it's
>not
>> possible to modify this aspect of appearance, but I have to know if I
>> can simply insert the "2" into my calculations or if I have to
>retrieve
>> that value from a property to make the calculation robust.
>>
>> I poked around in the reference for NonMusicalPaperColumn but didn't
>> find anything that looked promising. I can override its #'padding,
>but
>> that doesn't seem to have any effect at the system start (only within
>a
>> system).
>> It would seem that line-break-system-details would be a starting
>point,
>> but
>>
>http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/explicit-staff-and-system-positioning
>> doesn't give anything for my question, and the IR for
>> NonMusicalPaperColumn and paper-column-interface seem to be happy
>with
>> "An alist of properties to use if this column is the start of a
>system."
>>
>> Any clarification or pointers available?
>
>I would have a look at LeftEdge.space-alist.  The 2.0 looks
>suspiciously like first-note.fixed-space.
>

Thank you, this looks very promising, and I'll look into it when I'm home again.

Urs


>HTH,
>David

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Polymetric forcing break

[Karim Haddad]

Hi List,

I have a issue with forced breaks using polymetric music.
I wanted to display measure numbers on individuale staves. This is ok. However 
breaks are not controllable. Here is a small example with a break in the first 
staff that doesn't work and another in the second which works. But this is not 
satisfactory since i have more than two voices, and can't break where i want.
I maybe am doing something wrong. Any clues ? 

Here is the example :



\version "2.19.49"

"one"=
{
%%
%%% VOICE : 1 
%%

%%% MESURE : 1 %%%
\time 32/5
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(32 . 5)
\clef "G"
c'\maxima*4/5
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 2 %%%
\time 5/12
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(5 . 12)
c'2*2/3~
c'8*2/3
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%%Break here doesn't work!
\break
%%% MESURE : 3 %%%
\time 5/7
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(5 . 7)
c'1*4/7~
c'4*4/7
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 4 %%%
\time 15/14
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(15 . 14)
c'1.*4/7~
c'4.*4/7
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 5 %%%
\time 8/11
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(8 . 11)
c'1*8/11
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 6 %%%
\time 18/29
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(18 . 29)
c'1*16/29~
c'8*16/29
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"

}


"two"=
{
%%
%%% VOICE : 2 
%%

%%% MESURE : 1 %%%
\time 32/11
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(32 . 11)

c'\longa*8/11
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 2 %%%
\time 5/16
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(5 . 16)
c'4~
c'16
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 3 %%%
\time 32/11
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(32 . 11)
c'\longa*8/11
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 4 %%%
\time 12/11
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(12 . 11)
r1.*8/11
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%%Break here works!
%\break
%%% MESURE : 5 %%%
\time 30/11
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(30 . 11)
c'\breve.*8/11~
c'2.*8/11
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
%%% MESURE : 6 %%%
\time 8/23
\set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(8 . 23)
c'2*16/23
|
\once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"
}



\score {
 {

<<
\new Staff  {
\one
}

\new Staff  {
\two
}
 >>

}



\layout {
ragged-last = ##f
indent = 0.0

\context {\Voice
 \remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
   allowBeamBreak = ##t
   \consists "Bar_number_engraver"
   \override BarNumber.break-visibility = ##(#t #t #t)
  }
\context {\Score

  defaultBarType = #""

\override PaperColumn #'used = ##t
\override Beam.breakable = ##t
 \override TieColumn.breakable = ##t
 \override TupletBracket.breakable = ##t
 \override NonMusicalPaperColumn.line-break-permission = ##f

   \remove "Timing_translator"
  \remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"

 }
 \context {\Staff
   \numericTimeSignature
   \override NoteHead #'style = #'baroque
   \override Flag #'stencil = #modern-straight-flag

\consists "Timing_translator"
\consists "Default_bar_line_engraver"

}
}
}




Thanx

-- 
Karim Haddad


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Re: Polymetric forcing break

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 24.03.2017 um 18:23 schrieb Karim Haddad:

I have a issue with forced breaks using polymetric music.


In order for \break to be effective, you need a barline (in all staves, 
IIRC) _and_ there must be no note playing. The latter can be overridden 
by removing Forbid_line_break_engraver from Voice contexts (see 
). 
For the former, just insert \bar "" along with \break.


Best, Simon

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Re: Polymetric forcing break

[Richard Shann]

On Fri, 2017-03-24 at 18:56 +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Am 24.03.2017 um 18:23 schrieb Karim Haddad:
> > I have a issue with forced breaks using polymetric music.
> 
> In order for \break to be effective, you need a barline (in all
> staves, 
> IIRC)

I think there is never a need to put a barline in more than one staff -
barlines apply to the musical momemnt IIUC.

Richard



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Re: Polymetric forcing break

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 24.03.2017 um 19:02 schrieb Richard Shann:

On Fri, 2017-03-24 at 18:56 +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:

Am 24.03.2017 um 18:23 schrieb Karim Haddad:

I have a issue with forced breaks using polymetric music.

In order for \break to be effective, you need a barline (in all
staves,
IIRC)

I think there is never a need to put a barline in more than one staff -
barlines apply to the musical momemnt IIUC.


Iff the respective engraver lives in the Score context. However, for his 
polymetric music Karim will have moved it to Staff level, I presume.


Best, Simon
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Re: Polymetric forcing break

[Karim Haddad]

Thank both of you,

But unfortunately, this doesn't work in every case. By the way \remove 
"Forbid_line_break_engraver" is already in the example i have sent. It works 
for some cases (rare ones i presume), and don't for most.

You should check out the 2 breaks in the example. The first doesn't work. The 
second yes.
I need it to force breaking since i am using 4 polyphonic voices where there 
are seldom concording rests, and even less bars that ends together.

And yes i moved it on staff level in order to have independant mesure numbers. 
If i remove mesure numbers i can remove the "Timing_translator" and the breaks 
works just fine. So my problem is simple, i need to have measure numbers for 
each voice running independently , and i need to force breaks in order to see 
all the score.

If this is not possible in lilypond using measure numbers, i think i will do it 
as markup maybe it is simpler. ;-)


And thanx for your help. I appreciate it.
Good typestting !

Karim

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 07:18:34PM +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Am 24.03.2017 um 19:02 schrieb Richard Shann:
> > On Fri, 2017-03-24 at 18:56 +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> > > Am 24.03.2017 um 18:23 schrieb Karim Haddad:
> > > > I have a issue with forced breaks using polymetric music.
> > > In order for \break to be effective, you need a barline (in all
> > > staves,
> > > IIRC)
> > I think there is never a need to put a barline in more than one staff -
> > barlines apply to the musical momemnt IIUC.
> 
> Iff the respective engraver lives in the Score context. However, for his
> polymetric music Karim will have moved it to Staff level, I presume.
> 
> Best, Simon

-- 
Karim Haddad

email   : karim.had...@ircam.fr
webpage : http://karim.haddad.free.fr

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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Kim Shrier]

> On Mar 23, 2017, at 7:26 PM, Jeffery Shivers  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:13 PM, Andrew Bernard
>  wrote:
>> I have an unusual beaming situation in the piano work I am setting. The 
>> composer I work with is fussy (very) about his visual gestures in notation 
>> and it is incumbent on me to reproduce the beaming seen in the attached 
>> image. The issue I am having difficulty with is where the beam for the 
>> spanned group goes from up to down with no break – at the point where the 
>> “treble^8” clef is introduced. Are there any smart solutions to such a 
>> situation?
>> 
>> I can ask to have this notated differently, but it would go against various 
>> large scale structural patterns in the music. [Yes, we know it does not 
>> follow engraving rules ]  So a technical lilypond solution would be great.
> 
> I would start to guess something like.. just faking it with
> simultaneous overlapping beams. But I've given up in the past on doing
> this exact thing more than once. I can't recall ever spending the time
> to work it out. Are the beams for the subdivisions (beyond quavers)
> always at least on one side or the other - and never both?
> 
In the notation reference about beaming, 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/beams.en.html#manual-beams 
, it looks like you can achieve what you want by using manual beaming along 
with \set stemLeftBeamCount and \set stemRightBeamCount .

Kim


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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Simon Albrecht]

Am 24.03.2017 um 20:14 schrieb Kim Shrier:

In the notation reference about 
beaming,http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/beams.en.html#manual-beams
  , it looks like you can achieve what you want by using manual beaming along 
with \set stemLeftBeamCount and \set stemRightBeamCount .


Are you sure? This isn’t about number of beams, or placement of 
secondary beams, but about continuing the main beams at a totally 
different vertical position.


Best, Simon

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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Kim Shrier]

> On Mar 24, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Simon Albrecht  wrote:
> 
> Am 24.03.2017 um 20:14 schrieb Kim Shrier:
>> In the notation reference about 
>> beaming,http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/beams.en.html#manual-beams
>>   , it looks like you can achieve what you want by using manual beaming 
>> along with \set stemLeftBeamCount and \set stemRightBeamCount .
> 
> Are you sure? This isn’t about number of beams, or placement of secondary 
> beams, but about continuing the main beams at a totally different vertical 
> position.

Yes, I missed the vertical position aspect.  Ignore my noise.

Kim


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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Jeffery Shivers]

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Kim Shrier  wrote:
> In the notation reference about beaming, 
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/beams.en.html#manual-beams
>  , it looks like you can achieve what you want by using manual beaming along 
> with \set stemLeftBeamCount and \set stemRightBeamCount .

I'm not sure that does what he is asking.

Andrew:
How about at that moment where the beam is "split" or whatever,
letting that top beam's stem go all the way down to the d-sharp, and
at that same moment beginning the second beam with a space? I think
with some settings for avoiding various collisions, that could at
least visually do what you want there.

-- 

Jeffery Shivers
 jefferyshivers.com
 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers

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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Jeffery Shivers]

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Jeffery Shivers
 wrote:
> How about at that moment where the beam is "split" or whatever,
> letting that top beam's stem go all the way down to the d-sharp, and
> at that same moment beginning the second beam with a space? I think
> with some settings for avoiding various collisions, that could at
> least visually do what you want there.
>

see attached

-- 

Jeffery Shivers
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 soundcloud.com/jefferyshivers


ex.ly
Description: Binary data
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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Thomas Morley]

2017-03-24 2:13 GMT+01:00 Andrew Bernard :

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I have an unusual beaming situation in the piano work I am setting. The
> composer I work with is fussy (very) about his visual gestures in notation
> and it is incumbent on me to reproduce the beaming seen in the attached
> image. The issue I am having difficulty with is where the beam for the
> spanned group goes from up to down with no break – at the point where the
> “treble^8” clef is introduced. Are there any smart solutions to such a
> situation?
>
>
>
> I can ask to have this notated differently, but it would go against
> various large scale structural patterns in the music. [Yes, we know it does
> not follow engraving rules 😊]  So a technical lilypond solution would be
> great.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>

Hi Andrew,

I've a hard time understanding what the composer wants to tell me (the
probable performer) at this point. For me it looks the dis has two
different duration-indications at the same stem: two beams at top and three
more below.

The only way to make sense of it would to assume a polyphonic situation.
This idea came me after 10 minutes of thinking about it...
Now I give up, obviously I'm not the man for such things, at the end of a
hard weeks work.

Sorry to say, I usually throw away scores where the composer obfuscates
things.

Nevertheless, a hint (no idea whether it will be really helpful):

{
b'16^[
\once \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0  1) (list 0))
g''16
\once \override Stem.beaming = #(cons (list 0  1) (list 3 4 5))
dis'16
fis''32]
}



Cheers,
  Harm
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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

Working a bit on Jeffery’s suggestion, it seems to be getting very close to 
what you want:

\version "2.18.2"
\markup \vspace #3

beamPos =
#(define-music-function
  (parser location beg end)
  (number? number?)
  #{
\once \override Beam.positions = #(cons beg end)
  #})

musOne = {
  <<
\new Staff = "first" {
  <<
\new Voice = "one"
{
  \voiceOne \stemUp
  c'''16[ d''' c''' d''' c''' d''' c''' d'''
  \change Staff = "second"
  d'']
}
\new Voice = "two"
{
  \voiceTwo \stemDown
  s2
  \once \override Rest.transparent = ##t
  \beamPos -4 -4
  r32[ 
  \set stemRightBeamCount = #2
  c''' 
  \change Staff = "second"
  \once \stemUp
  \set stemLeftBeamCount = #2
  \set stemRightBeamCount = #3
  gis''32 
  \change Staff = "first"
  d'''16 c''' d''' 
  \set stemRightBeamCount = #1
  c'''32 
  \change Staff = "second"
  \once \stemUp
  \set stemLeftBeamCount = #1
  d'' 
  \change Staff = "first"
  c''']
}
\new Voice = "three"
{
  s2
  s16
  \change Staff = "second"
  \stemUp

  \override Stem.cross-staff = ##t
  %\override Voice.Stem.length = #30
  
}
  >>
}
\new Staff = "second" {
  
  s2
  s16
  \stemDown
  \tupletDown
  
  \tuplet 5/4 {
gis''16[ dis'' cis'' dis'' cis''] 
  }
  d''16
}

  >>
}


\score {
  \musOne
  \layout {
\override NoteHead.stem-attachment = #'(0 . 0)
\context {
  \Score
  proportionalNotationDuration = #(ly:make-moment 1/64)
  \override SpacingSpanner.uniform-stretching = ##t

}
  }
}


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Is it possible \quoteDuring from a different position?

[caagr98]

For example, quoting the start of the music when you are a few measures in?

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Re: Unusual beaming for piano music

[Juan Cristóbal Cerrillo]

Anything is possible in Lilypond!




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Re: Polymetric forcing break

[Mike Solomon]

Hey Karim!
I had the same problem a couple years ago and I solved it with a custom 
voice-level engraver - can't find any of that, but that's your best bet as 
it'll automate a lot of the tedium of manually putting in markups.
~Mike
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Karim Haddad  
Date: 3/24/17  8:47 PM  (GMT+02:00) To: Simon Albrecht  
Cc: lilypond-user@gnu.org Subject: Re: Polymetric forcing break 
Thank both of you,

But unfortunately, this doesn't work in every case. By the way \remove 
"Forbid_line_break_engraver" is already in the example i have sent. It works 
for some cases (rare ones i presume), and don't for most.

You should check out the 2 breaks in the example. The first doesn't work. The 
second yes.
I need it to force breaking since i am using 4 polyphonic voices where there 
are seldom concording rests, and even less bars that ends together.

And yes i moved it on staff level in order to have independant mesure numbers. 
If i remove mesure numbers i can remove the "Timing_translator" and the breaks 
works just fine. So my problem is simple, i need to have measure numbers for 
each voice running independently , and i need to force breaks in order to see 
all the score.

If this is not possible in lilypond using measure numbers, i think i will do it 
as markup maybe it is simpler. ;-)


And thanx for your help. I appreciate it.
Good typestting !

Karim

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 07:18:34PM +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> Am 24.03.2017 um 19:02 schrieb Richard Shann:
> > On Fri, 2017-03-24 at 18:56 +0100, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> > > Am 24.03.2017 um 18:23 schrieb Karim Haddad:
> > > > I have a issue with forced breaks using polymetric music.
> > > In order for \break to be effective, you need a barline (in all
> > > staves,
> > > IIRC)
> > I think there is never a need to put a barline in more than one staff -
> > barlines apply to the musical momemnt IIUC.
> 
> Iff the respective engraver lives in the Score context. However, for his
> polymetric music Karim will have moved it to Staff level, I presume.
> 
> Best, Simon

-- 
Karim Haddad

email   : karim.had...@ircam.fr
webpage : http://karim.haddad.free.fr

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