Cut and paste from manual returns errors
I am trying to typset a choral piece with half bar-lines in different places
in different voices.
The two approaches I have seen is to use polymetric notation or possibly
subverting the /breathe command to get the desired effect.
I have been trying to cut and paste examples from the manual, specifically
this one:
\override BreathingSign.text =\markup { \musicglyph #"scripts.tickmark" }
...but it returns a sytax error at the = and \musicglyph.
I am having similar problems with manual text for "printing different time
signatures":
\layout {
\context {
\Score
\remove "Timing_translator"
\remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"
\remove "Bar_number_engraver"
\override SpacingSpanner.uniform-stretching = ##t
\override SpacingSpanner.strict-note-spacing = ##t
proportionalNotationDuration = #(ly:make-moment 1/64)
}
\context {
\Staff
\consists "Timing_translator"
\consists "Default_bar_line_engraver"
}
\context {
\Voice
\remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
tupletFullLength = ##t
}
}
...which returns a lot of errors.
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Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Just to further clarify, this is the problem I am trying to overcome: /In scores with many staves, a \bar command in one staff is automatically applied to all staves. The resulting bar lines are connected between different staves of a StaffGroup, PianoStaff, or GrandStaff./ I am trying to print barlines manually for each staff individually. This is a behaviour that I often require to be swtiched but I can't find a simple way to do it, or any that actually works. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147277.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
2013/6/23 DW :
> I am trying to typset a choral piece with half bar-lines in different places
> in different voices.
>
> The two approaches I have seen is to use polymetric notation or possibly
> subverting the /breathe command to get the desired effect.
>
> I have been trying to cut and paste examples from the manual, specifically
> this one:
Hi,
please refer to the exact place of which manual and/or title of the snippet.
This is from NR:
> \override BreathingSign.text =\markup { \musicglyph #"scripts.tickmark" }
>
> ...but it returns a sytax error at the = and \musicglyph.
>
> I am having similar problems with manual text for "printing different time
> signatures":
This is from Documentation/snippets:
> \layout {
> \context {
> \Score
> \remove "Timing_translator"
> \remove "Default_bar_line_engraver"
> \remove "Bar_number_engraver"
> \override SpacingSpanner.uniform-stretching = ##t
> \override SpacingSpanner.strict-note-spacing = ##t
> proportionalNotationDuration = #(ly:make-moment 1/64)
> }
> \context {
> \Staff
> \consists "Timing_translator"
> \consists "Default_bar_line_engraver"
> }
> \context {
> \Voice
> \remove "Forbid_line_break_engraver"
> tupletFullLength = ##t
> }
> }
>
>
> ...which returns a lot of errors.
I tried them both and got _no_ errors at all, with 2.17.20
Which version do you use?
Cheers,
Harm
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current whiteout mechanism is not perfect
Hi. The example in the attachment shows that the current whiteout mechanism is not perfect. As far as I know, it works by drawing white box in the background of the text. This solution, however, has one drawback: sometimes bar line isn't broken in it's full width and that looks ugly. (see example): So maybe whiteout mechanism should work like this: if text-barline-overlap = true then break-barline-in-full-width Of course I know that this is much harder to implement, maybe even impossible, but I also have a strong feeling that the current mechanism has to be improved somehow. <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: current whiteout mechanism is not perfect
Hi,
2013/6/23 Karol Majewski :
> Hi. The example in the attachment shows that the current whiteout mechanism
> is not perfect. As far as I know, it works by drawing white box in the
> background of the text. This solution, however, has one drawback: sometimes
> bar line isn't broken in it's full width and that looks ugly. (see example)
Is this text ("f") right-aligned to the barline, or was is just a
coincidence that it appeared there?
If it's a coincidence, i'd say that this is unfixable. However, if
the text was deliberately aligned to the barline, you may file a bug
report. Correcting this is a matter of fixing alignment stuff, see:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3239
(new alignment will take barline thickness into account and thus there
should be no problem here). That patch is currently on hold, waiting
for the stable release.
best,
Janek
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Re: current whiteout mechanism is not perfect
Hi Janek. Here's a similar example:
upper = \relative c'' {
\clef treble
\key c \major
\time 4/4
a4 b c d
a b c d
}
lower = \relative c {
\clef bass
\key c \major
\time 4/4
a4 b c d^"w.."
a b c d
}
\score {
\new PianoStaff <<
\set PianoStaff.instrumentName = #"Piano "
\new Staff = "upper" \upper
\new Staff = "lower" \lower
>>
\layout {
\override TextScript #'whiteout = ##t
}
}
Dnia 23-06-2013 o godz. 14:42 Janek Warchoł napisał(a):
> Hi,
>
> 2013/6/23 Karol Majewski :
> > Hi. The example in the attachment shows that the current whiteout
> mechanism is not perfect. As far as I know, it works by drawing white
> box in the background of the text. This solution, however, has one
> drawback: sometimes bar line isn't broken in it's full width and that
> looks ugly. (see example)
>
> Is this text ("f") right-aligned to the barline, or was is just a
> coincidence that it appeared there?
> If it's a coincidence, i'd say that this is unfixable. However, if
> the text was deliberately aligned to the barline, you may file a bug
> report. Correcting this is a matter of fixing alignment stuff, see:
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3239
> (new alignment will take barline thickness into account and thus there
> should be no problem here). That patch is currently on hold, waiting
> for the stable release.
>
> best,
> Janek
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Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Ah, thanks. I was using the latest stable version which is 12.16.2, updating to the unstable version did the trick. Thanks again -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147287.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Am 23.06.2013 15:59, schrieb DW: Ah, thanks. I was using the latest stable version which is 12.16.2, updating to the unstable version did the trick. It is a really common source of problems that people use examples from manuals not matching their LilyPond version ... Urs Thanks again -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147287.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Urs Liska writes: > Am 23.06.2013 15:59, schrieb DW: >> Ah, thanks. I was using the latest stable version which is 12.16.2, updating >> to the unstable version did the trick. > It is a really common source of problems that people use examples from > manuals not matching their LilyPond version ... Well, it is due to LilyPond moving forward at a nice pace. While there is quite a strive to keep backwards compatibility, not every hack is going to work the same in future. Not even every previously well-formed program (though convert-ly usually should be able to deal with most backward-incompatible changes). Most of the problems we see are with people mixing up versions of manuals and programs of current stable or unstable, or of last stable and current stable. When I was active on AUCTeX, there were sometimes bug reports about non-working instructions from former student pages that worked more by accident than by design even about 10 years ago. And there is a propensity of people who never actually read the manuals coming with their software because they consider provided documentation defective by default, and instead only consult pages they find by web searches. Actually, I remember my mother having problems with looking at some URL somebody sent her because Google did not return something useful when searching for that URL. She was not aware that her browser did not just have a Google search box but an actual URL entry field. Things like that make one wonder whether search engine advertising revenue is not merely absurdly overhyped. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
For the manual version problem, this arises largely because the manuals are laid out in such a way as to force one to do a google search on more obscure implementations, at that point it is very hard to see where you end up because you are opening 50 tabs that might lead you in the right direction. Unless you are intimately involved with the manuals they can be a frightful quagmire of information placed in diverse locations. Not sure if that is a feature or a bug, but it is my experience. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147291.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Maybe in 20 years time once the development has slowed down some can go back and comprehensive comprehensible manual, but as it is one has to rely on googling increasingly obscure search terms to do some of the less common things that is required when typesetting. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147292.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Just to clarify: It often seems as if the simple, obvious things are all in one easily accessible place but the more fine grained stuff is hidden somewhere completed different. What would really be helpful is for the manual to be a singular thing where even detail conceivably related to bar-lines (for example) is placed in one single bar-line location. Even if that means duplicating material. Then it can still work to have the simplest stuff at the top at for it to get progressively more obscure as you scroll down. That way one can have a single definitive manual for each version and obviate much of the current problem. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147293.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
DW writes: > For the manual version problem, this arises largely because the > manuals are laid out in such a way as to force one to do a google > search on more obscure implementations, at that point it is very hard > to see where you end up because you are opening 50 tabs that might > lead you in the right direction. Have you seriously tried using the manuals' index? It's probably easy for me to ask this, given that I use Emacs as my manual reader and its index lookup is pretty much instantaneous and with autocompletion, but it's not like the HTML index would be unusable. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
That's what I'm referring to (if I am understanding you correctly). If I want information on barlines I should go to BARLINES, not Learning>Barlines or Usage>Barlines or Notation>Barlines or Snippets>Barlines. Just BARLINES. Never mind various manuals for different version numbers added on top of that. It's not that having all those manuals is necessarily a bad thing, it is just that there should really be a central repository organised along musical concept lines for the average user. The same sort of thing applies to splitting the information by genre, not bad in principle, but in practice it becomes a nightmare to navigate really quickly no matter how well you care to index it. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147295.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
- Original Message - From: "David Kastrup" To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors DW writes: For the manual version problem, this arises largely because the manuals are laid out in such a way as to force one to do a google search on more obscure implementations, at that point it is very hard to see where you end up because you are opening 50 tabs that might lead you in the right direction. Have you seriously tried using the manuals' index? It's probably easy for me to ask this, given that I use Emacs as my manual reader and its index lookup is pretty much instantaneous and with autocompletion, but it's not like the HTML index would be unusable. -- David Kastrup There's also the rather simple and obvious method of downloading the PDF of the version you're actually using, and searching it using the PDF find function - that is, of course, if the index doesn't take you there straight away. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
DW writes: > That's what I'm referring to (if I am understanding you correctly). > > If I want information on barlines I should go to BARLINES, not > Learning>Barlines or Usage>Barlines or Notation>Barlines or > Snippets>Barlines. Just BARLINES. If you want extensive information, you go to the Notation manual. If the table of contents does not have an obvious entry, take the index. Relevant snippets will be cross-referenced from the entry in the notation manual. > Never mind various manuals for different version numbers added on top > of that. Why would you be searching manuals for different version numbers? > It's not that having all those manuals is necessarily a bad thing, it > is just that there should really be a central repository organised > along musical concept lines for the average user. That's the notation manual. > The same sort of thing applies to splitting the information by genre, > not bad in principle, but in practice it becomes a nightmare to > navigate really quickly no matter how well you care to index it. Have you actually tried using the index? Or is this theoretical? If you tried using the index, could you point out why it was deficient for finding the information you were looking for? -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
I don't want to harp on this point, but it is significant that when I mention to people that I use Lilypond their faces curl up and frumple. Usually a little prodding reveals that they have encountered the manuals. I have invested a little time in trying to figure them out, and I find them highly confusing, no matter how you care to go about searching them, and I usually try multiple tacks (including pdf's and google and native indexing) before I get to the answer I am looking for. It's okay for me because I find lilypond useful enough to persevere. But most people will do what I did at first, go to the search box on the lilypond page, type in "barlines" and proceed to be baffled and confused. I had to find the information under "polymetric notation" which this instance isn't a true example of, and by that time had been spending a frustrating 30 mins doing so with multiple open pages to scroll through. So you can understand that once you find some little bit of hope, that the fact the information is not clearly labelled as belonging to a non-stable release is going to throw 99% of those who have stuck with it to this point off the track. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147298.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Hello, > most people will do what I did at first, go to the search box on the > lilypond page, type in "barlines" and proceed to be baffled and confused. I have literally never used that search box before. I don't even think it makes sense there — at the very least, it should be "next to" the documentation (i.e., on the manuals page), not randomly on the main page (from which I naturally infer it will search the lilypond website, and not necessarily the documentation). Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: lilypond blog address: final decision. please state your opinion.
I also prefer blog.lilypond.org But lilypondblog.org would be fine, and it looks like the path of least resistance and the more likely outcome given the previous discussion. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/lilypond-blog-address-final-decision-please-state-your-opinion-tp147192p147300.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
- Original Message -
From: "DW"
To:
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
I don't want to harp on this point, but it is significant that when I
mention
to people that I use Lilypond their faces curl up and frumple. Usually a
little prodding reveals that they have encountered the manuals.
I have invested a little time in trying to figure them out, and I find
them
highly confusing, no matter how you care to go about searching them, and I
usually try multiple tacks (including pdf's and google and native
indexing)
before I get to the answer I am looking for.
We all started in the same place, and I have to say I disagree with what
you're saying. If you go to http://lilypond.org/manuals.html it describes
exactly what each manual covers - the Learning manual is an introduction and
the Notation Reference a syntax reference. It seems to me that the
operations you're attempting (which essentially is not possible in the major
commercial typesetting product) is not part of gentle introduction. So it's
the NR. With the second problem you cited ("printing different time
signatures") the index takes you straight there. As for the first problem
you cite (the tickmark) the reason that's not in the 2.16 manuals is that I
only implemented that last summer, so it doesn't exist in 2.16. In a sense
it's a penalty of using a product that is frequently updated.
It's okay for me because I find lilypond useful enough to persevere.
But most people will do what I did at first, go to the search box on the
lilypond page, type in "barlines" and proceed to be baffled and confused.
I
had to find the information under "polymetric notation" which this
instance
isn't a true example of, and by that time had been spending a frustrating
30
mins doing so with multiple open pages to scroll through.
Nope. I use the PDF manuals.
So you can understand that once you find some little bit of hope, that the
fact the information is not clearly labelled as belonging to a non-stable
release is going to throw 99% of those who have stuck with it to this
point
off the track.
We would welcome suggested practical ways to improve the situation. We
would further welcome offers to join the volunteers who develop and maintain
Lilypond free, so that you can use it.
--
Phil Holmes
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Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
I am more than happy to volunteer, and I realise that it is easy to point these things out but much harder to actually fix them. http://lilypond.org/manuals.html ...is next to useless is you are looking for anything but the simplest implementations. The divisions are not really sensible. I already mentioned barlines, so let me mention something else. Say, noteheads. If I am looking for a way to separate a notehead from its stem, how would I go about finding this information? _ First step, according to the advice here is the manual index. But which manual do I choose? The obvious one (to someone who doesn't know anything else) is "Notation", because that's what I'm trying to do. Great! This looks promising. I scroll down the lefthand menu and find something that vaguely resmebles what I am trying to achieve: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/note-head-styles. Nope. Spacing? Nope. Now I am starting to get worried, I try opening up a couple of ones that look promising. Nope. Back to http://lilypond.org/manuals.html. Try snippets. Scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll. Nope. Open browser menu, type stem. Repeat step above. Nope. Back to homepage. Search for "moving stem away from notehead" and related terms, open 50 browser windows. Scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll. Nope. Open browser menu, type stem. Repeat step above. Nope. Go to Google. Type in "move stem away from notehead lilypond help" and variations thereof. Find forums. Get told to go to http://lilypond.org/manuals.html. You can understand why this would frustrate the average user, while the information I was looking for should have been filed under "stuff you can do to stems". Because stem (and notehead) is the music notation concept we are dealing with here. In fact, I still don't know how to find the answer to this particular question (although I am pretty sure I have seen that it can be done), perhaps you can enlighten as to the proper search procedure I should have followed? -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147302.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Kieren MacMillan wrote > Hello, > >> most people will do what I did at first, go to the search box on the >> lilypond page, type in "barlines" and proceed to be baffled and confused. > > I have literally never used that search box before. > I don't even think it makes sense there — at the very least, it should be > "next to" the documentation (i.e., on the manuals page), not randomly on > the main page (from which I naturally infer it will search the lilypond > website, and not necessarily the documentation). > > Kieren. > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@ > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user Yes, and how exactly am I as the average user supposed to ascertain that? How do I get directly from here: http://lilypond.org/manuals.html to where I need to be in my example in the post above? -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147303.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Hi, > How do I get directly from here: http://lilypond.org/manuals.html to where I > need to be in my example in the post above? There should be a "Search v2.16.2 Documentation" field — instead of, or in addition to, the one that's currently in the upper nav bar — which does a search on the appropriate manuals. Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Yes, that would be a simple solution, maybe even just with a drop down menu to select version numbers for stable/unstable. I would venture that would already be an enormous improvement even if it isn't a complete fix when it comes to the more obscure stuff. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147305.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
p.s. > I would venture that would already be an enormous improvement even if it > isn't a complete fix when it comes to the more obscure stuff. For the more obscure stuff, I would imagine a very good — and possibly complete — solution would simply be a matter of getting volunteers to add index entries where they're missing (e.g., "barlines" leading to "polymetric notation"). Cheers, Kieren. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Hi, 2013/6/23 DW : > I am more than happy to volunteer, and I realise that it is easy to point > these things out but much harder to actually fix them. > > http://lilypond.org/manuals.html > ...is next to useless is you are looking for anything but the simplest > implementations. [] I agree that it's not easy to use LilyPond documentation. At the same time i believe that this is mostly because music notation itself is a very complex subject and no matter what we do, doing nonstandard things will be hard (that's not to say we cannot improve current docs). That's why we have the mailing list: if you cannot find something in 15-20 minutes, ask. best, Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Thanks, I will take you up on that if you don't mind :) I am more than happy contribute my time and effort to such an indexing effort, I think something of that nature would help enormously to improve the general usability of what I consider to be by far the best music editor available. While we are on the topic of general improvements. One way I have found that makes editing a lot easier is to export snippets to .jpg and then using picture editors for larger scale alignments. My problem is that many .pdf to .jpg converters often leave artifacts. Does anyone know of really good way to do this? Is it possible to implement natively at all (reaching, I know). -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147308.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
2013/6/23 DW : [...] > If I am looking for a way to separate a notehead from its stem, how would I > go about finding this information? > > _ > > First step, according to the advice here is the manual index. But which > manual do I choose? The obvious one (to someone who doesn't know anything > else) is "Notation", because that's what I'm trying to do. > > Great! This looks promising. I scroll down the lefthand menu and find > something that vaguely resmebles what I am trying to achieve: > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/note-head-styles. > > Nope. > > Spacing? Nope. > > Now I am starting to get worried, I try opening up a couple of ones that > look promising. Nope. > > Back to http://lilypond.org/manuals.html. Try snippets. > > Scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll > scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll. Nope. > > Open browser menu, type stem. Repeat step above. Nope. > > Back to homepage. Search for "moving stem away from notehead" and related > terms, open 50 browser windows. > > Scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll > scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll. Nope. > > Open browser menu, type stem. Repeat step above. Nope. > > Go to Google. Type in "move stem away from notehead lilypond help" and > variations thereof. > > Find forums. > > Get told to go to http://lilypond.org/manuals.html. > > > > You can understand why this would frustrate the average user, while the > information I was looking for should have been filed under "stuff you can do > to stems". Because stem (and notehead) is the music notation concept we are > dealing with here. > > In fact, I still don't know how to find the answer to this particular > question (although I am pretty sure I have seen that it can be done), > perhaps you can enlighten as to the proper search procedure I should have > followed? Well, I'm not sure there's any "proper search procedure" which will succeed _every_ time. Though perhaps you'll find the two steps below helpful: 1) Getting the name. The first step might be to get the knowledge how LilyPond names it (and deals with it). Therefore I'd look into the Internals Reference 3.1 All layout objects: NoteHead and/or Stem. Btw, the NR has several links to the Internals Reference. (For NoteHead, too.) In 3.1.79 NoteHead you'll find: stem-attachment (pair of numbers): ly:note-head::calc-stem-attachment An (x . y) pair where the stem attaches to the notehead. This looks promising. 2) How to use? Getting an example. LM and NR will give you no real help. Though looking in /Documentation/Snippets will give you at least one use-case. You'll find more in the LSR http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/ Although the LSR currently runs 2.14.2, there are more working examples. (The LSR is something like a LilyPond/scheme-cookbook and very useful.) Perhaps http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=859 might be of some help, there you'll find the command: \override NoteHead #'stem-attachment = #'(0.8 . 0.1) and playing with the numeric values you should succeed. In general, if I want to achieve something, the first thing I need to know is "How is it named?" Looking into the Internals Reference is the _first_ I try. Second step is looking for examples. Searching NR, Snippets (using the online .html-big-pages) and LSR is often successful. If not, I'd have a look in the /ly and /scm files. (Using the search-functions of jEdit. my favorite editor) If not, I'd search the archives, see http://lilypond.org/contact.html If not, I'd probably use a web-search (_last_ resort), though more likely ask the list. HTH, Harm ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
2013/6/23 DW : > While we are on the topic of general improvements. One way I have found that > makes editing a lot easier is to export snippets to .jpg and then using > picture editors for larger scale alignments. One problem with this approach is, that we've several blind users. Pictures are useless for them. -Harm ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
DW writes: > Thanks, I will take you up on that if you don't mind :) > > I am more than happy contribute my time and effort to such an indexing > effort, I think something of that nature would help enormously to > improve the general usability of what I consider to be by far the best > music editor available. Well, LilyPond is not really an editor... > While we are on the topic of general improvements. One way I have > found that makes editing a lot easier is to export snippets to .jpg > and then using picture editors for larger scale alignments. My problem > is that many .pdf to .jpg converters often leave artifacts. I think the "usual" way is to generate SVG format, then use Inkscape on the result. In olden times, one would have probably generated PostScript and edited it with Tailor on a NeXT computer, but I don't think that those are around any more. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
2013/6/23 DW : > While we are on the topic of general improvements. One way I have found that > makes editing a lot easier is to export snippets to .jpg and then using > picture editors for larger scale alignments. My problem is that many .pdf to > .jpg converters often leave artifacts. > > Does anyone know of really good way to do this? Is it possible to implement > natively at all (reaching, I know). You may want to try GIMP. It can open pdfs as images. hth Janek ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Janek Warchoł writes: > 2013/6/23 DW : >> While we are on the topic of general improvements. One way I have found that >> makes editing a lot easier is to export snippets to .jpg and then using >> picture editors for larger scale alignments. My problem is that many .pdf to >> .jpg converters often leave artifacts. >> >> Does anyone know of really good way to do this? Is it possible to implement >> natively at all (reaching, I know). > > You may want to try GIMP. It can open pdfs as images. I think it opens them as raster images (by running them through Ghostscript) which is not really helpful for quality-preserving editing. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
- Original Message - From: "DW" To: Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors While we are on the topic of general improvements. One way I have found that makes editing a lot easier is to export snippets to .jpg and then using picture editors for larger scale alignments. My problem is that many .pdf to .jpg converters often leave artifacts. Does anyone know of really good way to do this? Is it possible to implement natively at all (reaching, I know). jpg always has artifacts to some extent owing to the way it compresses. The best way to convert pdf to image depends on your OS. Of course, lilypond can create PNG images of arbitrary scale if needed. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
On 24/06/13 01:19, DW wrote: That's what I'm referring to (if I am understanding you correctly). If I want information on barlines I should go to BARLINES, not Learning>Barlines or Usage>Barlines or Notation>Barlines or Snippets>Barlines. Just BARLINES. Never mind various manuals for different version numbers added on top of that. I usually use Adobe Acrobat to create a PDF portfolio for each version that contains the extending, internals, learning, notation, snippets, usage, and web manuals. If you open it in Adobe Reader and enter a search term in the field at top right, you'll get back all the hits in all the manuals. Every word in all the manuals is indexed. The portfolio for the current development version is downloadable from https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9u89cbsbrgkjkc/Lilydoc-2.17.20.pdf. Nick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Replacement suggestions for Century Schoolbook?
Am 23.06.2013 23:14, schrieb Mark Polesky: Urs, I missed the big discussion earlier, but has anyone mentioned FreeSerif? Not that I recall ... http://www.fontspace.com/gnu-freefont/freeserif I'm getting some good results with lyrics. I particularly like that it has all 5 of the common English ligatures 0xFB00 - 0xFB04 (ff fi fl ffi ffl). Century Schoolbook only has two (ff and fi). Some or all of these characters may get mangled in the email delivery, but here they are: 0xFB00 ff (ff) 0xFB01 fi (fi) 0xFB02 fl (fl) 0xFB03 ffi (ffi) 0xFB04 ffl (ffl) test sentence with ligatures: office flight raffle, final offer test sentence, spelled out completely: office flight raffle, final offer I just could only look at the samples on the page you linked, but it looks quite good and usable. I will definitely do some tests. Thanks for the hint. TeXGyreSchola has good ligature support, too: http://www.fontspace.com/gust-e-foundry/texgyreschola I think I actually tested it then, and its main problem is the same as with LilyPond's Century: it's just too wide. So no improvement in the sense of my original post. Urs But I prefer the look of FreeSerif. - Mark ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
I'm new at this and expect to be drawing from this well, so, at the risk of providing common knowledge, I'll contribute what I know about this subject and how I plan to go about preparing .pdf pages for current publishing project. As a Quark and InDesign user, I have been very happy with the results obtained with a publishing suite built around "Scribus," which is a open source high end desktop publishing program similar to MS publisher, "Inkscape," an illustrator program, and "Gimp," an image manipulation program and photo handler. Add Foxit .pdf reader ($30) and you might be able delete Acrobat. Corel Fusion ($29) manages .pdf stacks. To the point (I am winging this, accuracy not assured) 1) Set up a page to the desired size in Scribus 2) Set up origin and destination files. Files won't be too big. 3) Draw image box on page (as opposed to text box) 4) Import .pdf containing content. ( I am producing separate files for each line of music and lyrics. Two reasons for this. One, I am new and had trouble laying out the sheet as one file, and, two, recognized that in the long run, separate files would save me work) 5) Click (what amounts to) "size image to frame." 5) Do the same thing with all the staffs. 6) Move them around, resize the box. Add text in boxes or columns, put frames around them, add pictures, page number, and all that. What you have done is use Lily Pond to create the graphic, and your cost is whatever you can donate. 7) Export as .pdf, .png, jpg, or whatever. Dozens of graphic and document formats are supported. These guys are good. The format conversions are lightning to the point of near seamless. If there is loss, I'm not finding it. If I do, I'll just increase the page size. Inkscape has saved my neck on more than one occasion, but I am not versed in it to wing a proposal. You can make or import little pictures of notes and additionals, like a #, enclose them in a little transparent box, and drag them around the frame. You can erase, color, underline, shade or add effects, really make your work stand out and be recognized. Go get 'em. All I really want to do is finish this guitar instruction session. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147319.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Replacement suggestions for Century Schoolbook?
How about considering Gentium Plus once the bold and bold italic faces are available (at the moment Gentium Plus contains only regular and italic faces). It's released under the SIL open font license (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL) and contains virtually all the characters defined in Unicode 5.1 for Latin and Cyrillic. See http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=Gentium and http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=Gentium_Technical. I've been using Gentium Book Basic in my scores for a while and like the look of it. It's essentially Gentium with a more limited character set (only the Basic Latin and Latin-1 Unicode ranges), but it contains regular, bold, italic, and bold italic faces. Nick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Replacement suggestions for Century Schoolbook?
Urs, I missed the big discussion earlier, but has anyone mentioned FreeSerif? http://www.fontspace.com/gnu-freefont/freeserif I'm getting some good results with lyrics. I particularly like that it has all 5 of the common English ligatures 0xFB00 - 0xFB04 (ff fi fl ffi ffl). Century Schoolbook only has two (ff and fi). Some or all of these characters may get mangled in the email delivery, but here they are: 0xFB00 ff (ff) 0xFB01 fi (fi) 0xFB02 fl (fl) 0xFB03 ffi (ffi) 0xFB04 ffl (ffl) test sentence with ligatures: office flight raffle, final offer test sentence, spelled out completely: office flight raffle, final offer TeXGyreSchola has good ligature support, too: http://www.fontspace.com/gust-e-foundry/texgyreschola But I prefer the look of FreeSerif. - Mark ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Replacement suggestions for Century Schoolbook?
Urs Liska wrote: >> http://www.fontspace.com/gnu-freefont/freeserif >> ... >> test sentence with ligatures: >> office flight raffle, final offer >> >> test sentence, spelled out completely: >> office flight raffle, final offer > > I just could only look at the samples on the page you linked, but it > looks quite good and usable. > I will definitely do some tests. > Thanks for the hint. On that page, there's a blue bar just above the samples with a "customize" box. You can copy and paste my sentence into there to see the nice-looking ligatures! - Mark ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
On 24/06/13 08:09, ed shaw wrote: I'm new at this and expect to be drawing from this well, so, at the risk of providing common knowledge, I'll contribute what I know about this subject and how I plan to go about preparing .pdf pages for current publishing project. As a Quark and InDesign user, I have been very happy with the results obtained with a publishing suite built around "Scribus," which is a open source high end desktop publishing program similar to MS publisher, "Inkscape," an illustrator program, and "Gimp," an image manipulation program and photo handler. Add Foxit .pdf reader ($30) and you might be able delete Acrobat. Corel Fusion ($29) manages .pdf stacks. To the point (I am winging this, accuracy not assured) 1) Set up a page to the desired size in Scribus 2) Set up origin and destination files. Files won't be too big. 3) Draw image box on page (as opposed to text box) 4) Import .pdf containing content. ( I am producing separate files for each line of music and lyrics. Two reasons for this. One, I am new and had trouble laying out the sheet as one file, and, two, recognized that in the long run, separate files would save me work) 5) Click (what amounts to) "size image to frame." 5) Do the same thing with all the staffs. You can embed lilypond code directly in render frames in scribus, and scribus will call lilypond to render the code in the frame. See http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/Embedding_other_external_tools_into_a_TeX_frame#LilyPond. I've done that for exercise and warmup sheets where I'm interspersing text and music on the page. Nick ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Replacement suggestions for Century Schoolbook?
Am 24.06.2013 00:32, schrieb Nick Payne: How about considering Gentium Plus once the bold and bold italic faces are available (at the moment Gentium Plus contains only regular and italic faces). It's released under the SIL open font license (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL) and contains virtually all the characters defined in Unicode 5.1 for Latin and Cyrillic. See http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=Gentium and http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=Gentium_Technical. I've been using Gentium Book Basic in my scores for a while and like the look of it. It's essentially Gentium with a more limited character set (only the Basic Latin and Latin-1 Unicode ranges), but it contains regular, bold, italic, and bold italic faces. Nick As a reminder: My initial motivation to look for a replacement of the default font was its wide spacing. I'm looking for a free font that can achieve tighter spacing in lyrics while being still heavy enough to complement LilyPond's music font. I am very fond of Adobe's Minion Pro, especially for its combination of medium and semibold weights and semicondensed and condensed widths. So for my personal use I'm quite happy but I'd be even happier when finding a free font with similar characteristics. Urs ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Replacement suggestions for Century Schoolbook?
On 24/06/13 09:58, Urs Liska wrote: Am 24.06.2013 00:32, schrieb Nick Payne: How about considering Gentium Plus once the bold and bold italic faces are available (at the moment Gentium Plus contains only regular and italic faces). It's released under the SIL open font license (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL) and contains virtually all the characters defined in Unicode 5.1 for Latin and Cyrillic. See http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=Gentium and http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=Gentium_Technical. I've been using Gentium Book Basic in my scores for a while and like the look of it. It's essentially Gentium with a more limited character set (only the Basic Latin and Latin-1 Unicode ranges), but it contains regular, bold, italic, and bold italic faces. Nick As a reminder: My initial motivation to look for a replacement of the default font was its wide spacing. I'm looking for a free font that can achieve tighter spacing in lyrics while being still heavy enough to complement LilyPond's music font. I am very fond of Adobe's Minion Pro, especially for its combination of medium and semibold weights and semicondensed and condensed widths. So for my personal use I'm quite happy but I'd be even happier when finding a free font with similar characteristics. Gentium Book Basic is pretty much the same weight as Lilypond's default Century Schoolbook, but considerably tighter. Gentium Plus is tighter again but slightly lighter in weight. Here's a png of the three fonts as output by Lilypond. The PDF output gives a better view of the differences, but as it has all three fonts embedded, it's too large to attach here. <>___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Cut and paste from manual returns errors
Yeah, DW, I see what you mean. I'm in the process of setting up a MAC. So far, can't get the resolution. I'll work on that tomorrow. Looks like crop copy and paste is not going to be good enough. -- View this message in context: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Cut-and-paste-from-manual-returns-errors-tp147276p147327.html Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
