Re: [announcement] Elysium - LilyPond IDE for Eclipse
On 2010.07.01., at 20:36, Alex wrote: > Denes, couple of quick questions. > > Does Elysium enable internal midi playback? (The one in lilypondtool doesn't > work for me, and i'm at a loss as to how to remedy this on linux, so i've > basically given up) This feature has been implemented a month ago. Update Elysium (if it hasn't been updated automatically) and reset the LilyPond perspective or show the Audio View. > Is there the equivalent of a score setup wizard, in which i can build up a > full score quickly? Not yet, but it is among the next features to come. Thanks for the feature requests, your ideas are always welcome. :) thSoft ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond performance
Urs Liska writes: > Am 07.08.2010 09:14, schrieb David Kastrup: >> Graham Percival writes: >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 05:26:15AM -0700, ornello wrote: >>> In my installation, Lilypond runtime seems to increase exponentially (at least not linearly) with the number of pages to engrave. Is there any option to speed up Lilypond, e.g. by removing time-consuming engravers, such that the performance only increases (almost) linearly with the number of pages? >>> >>> There's a section in the Learning manual called "speeding up >>> lilypond", or something like that. This sounds like a good place >>> to look. >>> >> Essentially exponential behavior can't really be cured with anything >> except fixing the algorithm. >> > Can one expect a program like LilyPond to work in a linear fashion? The question is not what one can expect, but what one can achieve. I do think that the optimization problem can be reduced essentially to one of linear programming. That's what TeX's linebreaking does. The reason that this has not been extended to TeX's pagebreaking is a) memory requirements at its creation time were such that it was utterly infeasible to keep significantly more than one page in-memory. b) page composition was done using an "output routine" provided by the user, in a language that was not side-effect free and requiring global assignments. Both of these constraints are not inherently present with Lilypond. Linear programming techniques for this optimization problem are basically O(n), where things like maximum measures per line/page contribute a large constant factor depending on things like font and paper size. Combined page/line breaking has an expensive impact on that factor, but you still have basically linear performance for finding the optimum candidate among a set with exponentially growing size. > IIUC a linear increase could only be expected if lily would just > "walk" through the score from beginning to end. But if it has to > process the score as a whole (i.e. "still know at the end what was at > the beginning" or "know the end before typesetting the first barline") > I find it quite natural that its usage of processing time and probably > memory increases exponentially. Whether or not you consider it "natural" to walk through the whole candidate space without pruning, it is useless for non-trivial scores. > While practically any software may be improved and optimized I think > that if the scores become too complex to be handled within an > acceptable amount of time the only real solution is new hardware. I repeat: you can't fight exponential complexity with hardware (or with peephole optimization). -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond performance
Well, this seems a misunderstanding, mainly due to my English and the fact, that I only have very intermediate programming experience with very little theoretical background. I think basically we want to say the same thing :-) I don't find it natural to "walk through" the music from beginning to end. What I wanted to say is: Only if this would be possible one could expect a linear increase in processing time with longer scores. As it is not possible I find it "natural" that processing time increases exponentially. Maybe there are possible algorithms to substantially simplify or streamline the tasks lilypond has to do - I don't have the theoretical background to tell. But if it's not possible (which I assume), all I wanted to say is that you can only work around the problem with better hardware. Of course this is not a real solution to the problem... Hope this is clearer now. Best Urs Am 10.08.2010 10:31, schrieb David Kastrup: Urs Liska writes: Am 07.08.2010 09:14, schrieb David Kastrup: Graham Percival writes: On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 05:26:15AM -0700, ornello wrote: In my installation, Lilypond runtime seems to increase exponentially (at least not linearly) with the number of pages to engrave. Is there any option to speed up Lilypond, e.g. by removing time-consuming engravers, such that the performance only increases (almost) linearly with the number of pages? There's a section in the Learning manual called "speeding up lilypond", or something like that. This sounds like a good place to look. Essentially exponential behavior can't really be cured with anything except fixing the algorithm. Can one expect a program like LilyPond to work in a linear fashion? The question is not what one can expect, but what one can achieve. I do think that the optimization problem can be reduced essentially to one of linear programming. That's what TeX's linebreaking does. The reason that this has not been extended to TeX's pagebreaking is a) memory requirements at its creation time were such that it was utterly infeasible to keep significantly more than one page in-memory. b) page composition was done using an "output routine" provided by the user, in a language that was not side-effect free and requiring global assignments. Both of these constraints are not inherently present with Lilypond. Linear programming techniques for this optimization problem are basically O(n), where things like maximum measures per line/page contribute a large constant factor depending on things like font and paper size. Combined page/line breaking has an expensive impact on that factor, but you still have basically linear performance for finding the optimum candidate among a set with exponentially growing size. IIUC a linear increase could only be expected if lily would just "walk" through the score from beginning to end. But if it has to process the score as a whole (i.e. "still know at the end what was at the beginning" or "know the end before typesetting the first barline") I find it quite natural that its usage of processing time and probably memory increases exponentially. Whether or not you consider it "natural" to walk through the whole candidate space without pruning, it is useless for non-trivial scores. While practically any software may be improved and optimized I think that if the scores become too complex to be handled within an acceptable amount of time the only real solution is new hardware. I repeat: you can't fight exponential complexity with hardware (or with peephole optimization). ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Lilypond performance
Urs Liska writes: > Well, this seems a misunderstanding, mainly due to my English and the > fact, that I only have very intermediate programming experience with > very little theoretical background. > I think basically we want to say the same thing :-) I consider this extremely unlikely. > I don't find it natural to "walk through" the music from beginning to > end. I should think that this is the only reasonable direction. And indeed, this is what Lilypond essentially does (or did at one time), keeping and maintaining a pruned tree of possibilities as an internal data structure. Keeping the width of the maintained parts of the tree pruned to a maximum width is the art of linear programming. > What I wanted to say is: Only if this would be possible one could > expect a linear increase in processing time with longer scores. As it > is not possible I find it "natural" that processing time increases > exponentially. I suggest you make yourself acquainted with "linear programming". It is not likely that we get to understanding each other when working from incompatible theoretic assumptions. > Maybe there are possible algorithms to substantially simplify or > streamline the tasks lilypond has to do - I don't have the theoretical > background to tell. > But if it's not possible (which I assume), all I wanted to say is that > you can only work around the problem with better hardware. Again: you can't work around exponential complexity for problems of variable size with "better hardware". If you think otherwise, you are likely employing "exponential complexity" as a buzzword rather than in its actual meaning. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Report 19
Ah oh, I understood other "stuff" under editors :-) I like the slowdown sript, good thing this Report for frogs in the pond, thanks! Francois 2010/8/9, Graham Percival : > On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 02:00:16PM -0500, Music Teacher wrote: >> Hi Mr Percival, >> >> Where are the “grumpy-and-fluffy” editors? > > I'm the grumpy editor, and Valentin is the fluffy editor. > > Cheers, > - Graham > ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
insane spring_min distance
what does "programming error: insane spring min_distance requested, ignoring it" mean? should I worry about it and/or submit a bug report? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Report 19
What causes the message? -- Phil Holmes - Original Message - From: "Music Teacher" To: "Graham Percival" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:00 PM Subject: Re: LilyPond Report 19 Ah oh, I understood other "stuff" under editors :-) I like the slowdown sript, good thing this Report for frogs in the pond, thanks! Francois 2010/8/9, Graham Percival : On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 02:00:16PM -0500, Music Teacher wrote: Hi Mr Percival, Where are the “grumpy-and-fluffy” editors? I'm the grumpy editor, and Valentin is the fluffy editor. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: insane spring_min distance
What causes the message? -- Phil Holmes - Original Message - From: "James Bailey" To: "lilypond-user Mailinglist" Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:06 PM Subject: insane spring_min distance what does "programming error: insane spring min_distance requested, ignoring it" mean? should I worry about it and/or submit a bug report? ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: LilyPond Report 19
Apologies - had the wrong email highlighted when I hit ReplyAll. -- Phil Holmes - Original Message - From: "Phil Holmes" To: "Music Teacher" ; "Graham Percival" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:03 PM Subject: Re: LilyPond Report 19 What causes the message? -- Phil Holmes - Original Message - From: "Music Teacher" To: "Graham Percival" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:00 PM Subject: Re: LilyPond Report 19 Ah oh, I understood other "stuff" under editors :-) I like the slowdown sript, good thing this Report for frogs in the pond, thanks! Francois 2010/8/9, Graham Percival : On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 02:00:16PM -0500, Music Teacher wrote: Hi Mr Percival, Where are the “grumpy-and-fluffy” editors? I'm the grumpy editor, and Valentin is the fluffy editor. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
broken link
Hi, I just want to signal that the link http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/%20lilypond/lyqi.html provided in http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/web/easier-editing is broken. Bye, franZ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: broken link
Agreed. The %20 (space) should not be there. I've sent this report to the bugs newsgroup. -- Phil Holmes - Original Message - From: "Francesco Petrogalli" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:21 PM Subject: broken link Hi, I just want to signal that the link http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/%20lilypond/lyqi.html provided in http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/web/easier-editing is broken. Bye, franZ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Function to add a "-" before finger number
On 10 August 2010 01:40, Antheo wrote: > I used to code in Lisp but i could find by reading and googling in the doc > the functions you used. > Is there any way you could provide me with some links to the documentation > that would help me understand each function so that there are some chances i > could do it by myself next time? The functions starting with `ly:' (exported from C++ files) are documented here: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-internals/Scheme-functions#Scheme-functions Unfortunately, we don't (yet) have automatic documentation for the functions defined in the scm/ folder, though many of them do have docstrings inside the definition. See music-functions.scm, lily-library.scm and output-lib.scm for the most useful functions. Cheers, Neil ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
early music transcriptions
Hello everyone, I have two questions concerning transcriptions of medieval or renaissance music: How does one enter color brackets? I couldn't find them anywhere, but as they're rather basic I'd be surprised if they weren't supported. (My next question about this is probably going to be: How does one deal with colored ligatures or color overlapping ligatures?) Are trecento measure signs supported, as quaternaria, ternaria, ... , duodenaria? Very grateful for any hints I remain with all the best wishes, Hanna ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: insane spring_min distance
James Bailey wrote Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:06 PM what does "programming error: insane spring min_distance requested, ignoring it" mean? should I worry about it and/or submit a bug report? Not sure. Programming error usually means an internal error, but these can be triggered by setting some properties to extreme values, like zero extents. Could you post a minimal example which demonstrates this? Trevor ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: early music transcriptions
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Geisel Hanna wrote: > Hello everyone, > I have two questions concerning transcriptions of medieval or renaissance > music: > How does one enter color brackets? I couldn't find them anywhere, but as > they're rather basic I'd be surprised if they weren't supported. (My next > question about this is probably going to be: How does one deal with colored > ligatures or color overlapping ligatures?) I've just put a red ligature indication in my transcription of a Philippe de Vitry motet. My ligatures are actually done with analysis brackets, though, since there's some issue with ligatures and lyrics. Here's how I got the red bracket, though: \once \override HorizontalBracket #'color = #red Then I just make ligatures with the normal \startGroup and \stopGroup commands for analysis brackets. > Are trecento measure signs supported, as quaternaria, ternaria, ... , > duodenaria? > Very grateful for any hints I remain > with all the best wishes, Hanna Not sure about this. You might check the Lilypond Snippet Repository and the manual sections on Ancient music. HTH, Jonathan p.s. if you want to see the rest of my code I can send you an archive file privately. -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: early music transcriptions
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Geisel Hanna wrote: > How does one enter color brackets? I couldn't find them anywhere, but as Wait, are you talking about brackets indicating a change in mensuration? From black to red ink in the original manuscript? Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: broken link
On 10-08-10 01:27 PM, Phil Holmes wrote:
Agreed. The %20 (space) should not be there. I've sent this report
to the bugs newsgroup.
--
Phil Holmes
- Original Message - From: "Francesco Petrogalli"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:21 PM
Subject: broken link
Hi,
I just want to signal that the link
http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/%20lilypond/lyqi.html
provided in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/web/easier-editing
is broken.
Bye,
franZ
I've had a look at the source, and it appears that the URL is broken
across 2 lines:
"definitions for working with LilyPond source files. As well, one of
our developers has written @uref{http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/
lilypond/lyqi.html,lyqi}, an
Emacs major mode."
My guess is that the / on the first line is causing the unwanted space,
so I'll move the URL around and send a patch.
Colin
--
I stay cool and dig all jive, That's the way I stay alive.
My motto, as I live and learn, is "Dig and be dug in return."
- Langston Hughes
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: broken link
On 10-08-10 08:50 PM, Patrick McCarty wrote:
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
Hi,
I just want to signal that the link
http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/%20lilypond/lyqi.html
provided in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/web/easier-editing
is broken.
I've had a look at the source, and it appears that the URL is broken across
2 lines:
"definitions for working with LilyPond source files. As well, one of
our developers has written @uref{http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/
lilypond/lyqi.html,lyqi}, an
Emacs major mode."
My guess is that the / on the first line is causing the unwanted space, so
I'll move the URL around and send a patch.
Hi Colin,
I fixed this earlier:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=commitdiff;h=f853e59f7fba9880a923d0e83a7957f48ba287ef
-Patrick
I'm delighted to see I was on the right track, Patrick; thanks!
Colin
--
I stay cool and dig all jive, That's the way I stay alive.
My motto, as I live and learn, is "Dig and be dug in return."
- Langston Hughes
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: broken link
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:26 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I just want to signal that the link
>>> http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/%20lilypond/lyqi.html
>>> provided in
>>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/web/easier-editing
>>> is broken.
>
> I've had a look at the source, and it appears that the URL is broken across
> 2 lines:
> "definitions for working with LilyPond source files. As well, one of
> our developers has written @uref{http://nicolas.sceaux.free.fr/
> lilypond/lyqi.html,lyqi}, an
> Emacs major mode."
>
> My guess is that the / on the first line is causing the unwanted space, so
> I'll move the URL around and send a patch.
Hi Colin,
I fixed this earlier:
http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=lilypond.git;a=commitdiff;h=f853e59f7fba9880a923d0e83a7957f48ba287ef
-Patrick
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
