website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

Hi all,

I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.

http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/

Please comment.

BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab with the lily 
on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the rest of the main menu bar 
even though all pngs have the same size?

Cheers,
patrick
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Re: [m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl: translation error]

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op zondag 23-08-2009 om 19:01 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Martin
Tarenskeen:

> I bumped into a really ugly dutch translation error message:

What is it that you find so especially ugly about this? ;-)

> "geforceerde breuk werd opgeheft door andere gebeurtenis, zou je 
> maatcontrole moeten gebruiken?"
> 
> (The dutch people on this list will know what the error is - I hope ;-) 
> What's the right place to report such translation errors ?

Yeah, we do.  Had you provided the correct translation in your email,
I am sure someone would have picked it up and fixed it right away...

Fixed in GIT, thanks for the report!

Greetings,
Jan.

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Re: website draft 9

[Jethro Van Thuyne]

On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:01:56 +0200, Patrick Schmidt wrote:

> BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab with
> the lily on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the rest of
> the main menu bar even though all pngs have the same size?

Patrick,

Is it possible it just seems it's smaller because of the gray 1px upper 
and bottom borders in the original lily-home-nav graphic? 

   pictures/lily-home-nav-hover-3.png

Jethro



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Re: website draft 9

[Reinhold Kainhofer]

Am Montag, 7. September 2009 11:01:56 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> Hi all,
>
> I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.
>
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
>
> Please comment.
>
> BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab with the
> lily on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the rest of the main
> menu bar even though all pngs have the same size?

No, it's not smaller than the other images... The other images also have one 
dark-green pixel border on the bottom (but this is hard to see even on hover, 
without hover the border has the same color as the image, anyway).
See the attached screenshot

Cheers,
Reinhold

-- 
--
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
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Re: website draft 9

[Valentin Villenave]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Patrick Schmidt wrote:
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
>
> Please comment.

I like it very much.

Two minor comments:
 - On the homepage, it would be nice if the two subsubheadings for
"Stable" and "Unstable" didn't have the same bg-color (a little
brownish for the unstable release, accordingly to our color-code).
IIRC that had already been considered?
- the heading-center text the doc and download page could use some
(light) decoration.

It's hard to tell without the logos, but I have the feeling this
download page won't be my friend. It's a pity there isn't any link to
the development releases whatsoever (though it's linked from the home
page, which is kind of inconsistent).

> BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab with the 
> lily on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the rest of the main 
> menu bar even though all pngs have the same size?

The gradient looks slightly different indeed. No idea why, though.

Regards,
Valentin


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mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op zondag 06-09-2009 om 21:01 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Valentin
Villenave:

Hi Valentin!

> You'll find the answers by reading the full issue on
> http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-16

Yay, a new report.  Thanks!

Combining these 3-4 things from the report

1a --> nice photo of John and Valentin
1b --> missing photo of Francisco

2 -->  The way I see it, a Free Software project is not a product. 
   It is a bunch of people, and with regards to LilyPond, a bunch of
   people who are both brilliant and friendly.

3 -->  Oh, wait. In a few weeks from now, there will be yet another 
   compelling reason to use LilyPond: our brand new website.

made me think: wouldn't it be nice to have photos of all developers/
translators on the new authors page?

Jan.

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Re: website draft 9

[-Eluze]

Patrick Schmidt-5 wrote:
> 
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> 
> Please comment.
> 
> 
unless it is my browser settings it looks a bit greyish or dusty … -
wouldn't clear, pure colors present Lilypond in a brighter fashion?!

the layout is very pleasant, indeed!
-- 
View this message in context: 
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quadratic noteheads

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear community,
is it possible to get quadratic noteheads?
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Re: website draft 9

[Frank Steinmetzger]

Am Montag, 7. September 2009 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> Hi all,
>
> I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.
>
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
>
> Please comment.

I'm sorry to report that you overdid the javascripting. Opening an image in 
Konqueror from its thumbnail doesn't work - the frame pops up and closes 
again immediately.
For example the postcard near the bottom of 
http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-16?lang=en
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Re: website draft 9

[Valentin Villenave]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> I'm sorry to report that you overdid the javascripting. Opening an image in
> Konqueror from its thumbnail doesn't work - the frame pops up and closes
> again immediately.
> For example the postcard near the bottom of
> http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-16?lang=en

Greetings,

I believe you're referring to the "LilyPond Report", and not to the
new official website Patrick was talking about...

As for the JavaScript bug, I am aware that a few things have been
broken recently (however this particular bug doesn't happen here in
Firefox). I'll look into it whenever possible.

Regards,
Valentin


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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

Hi Frank,

I think your comment refers to the LilyPond Report (Valentin Villenave). We 
didn't use neither JavaScript nor postcards.

Cheers,
patrick
 Original-Nachricht 
> Datum: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:16:29 +0200
> Von: Frank Steinmetzger 
> An: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> Betreff: Re: website draft 9

> Am Montag, 7. September 2009 schrieb Patrick Schmidt:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> >
> > Please comment.
> 
> I'm sorry to report that you overdid the javascripting. Opening an image
> in 
> Konqueror from its thumbnail doesn't work - the frame pops up and closes 
> again immediately.
> For example the postcard near the bottom of 
> http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-16?lang=en
> -- 
> Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
> This is not a signature.

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Re: website draft 9

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op maandag 07-09-2009 om 12:16 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Frank
Steinmetzger:

> > I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.
> >
> > http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> >
> > Please comment.

What especially do you want comments on?  

Most images are broken.  Could it be that you did not run post-www.py?

How about having a priority list of things that need to be fixed, e

  -> /Introduction/Features seems to be one of the first pages the user
 is directed towards, and it has a big "help" box.

  -> Learning.html is "empty"

  -> The "essay" and author links still say "blah".

Related to that...I'm not very pleased with the top level pages
"Manuals" and "Community".

When you click on Manuals or Community, you enter some kind of "link 
farm", there's no real content there.

What about, instead of showing the second-level "(main)" overview,
opening the second second-level menu entry, ie

  Manuals --> Learning.html
  Community --> Contact.html

[supposing those are the best guesses/most used pages by first-timers]


> I'm sorry to report that you overdid the javascripting. Opening an image in 
> Konqueror from its thumbnail doesn't work - the frame pops up and closes 
> again immediately.

Are you sure this is javascript -- could the broken image links be the
problem?

Jan.

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Re: website draft 9

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op maandag 07 september 2009, schreef Patrick Schmidt:
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> 
> Please comment.

I very much like the new layout. A little nitpick: on hovering the menu bars, 
some gradients just become lighter, others look like mirrored upside down (or 
pressed down). For example, go to 
http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/Introduction.html: the headings Featutes, 
Examples, Freedom, Background invert the background on hovering (the white end 
of the gradient is at the bottom), while Productions and Testimonials just get 
lighter. "Text input" and "Alternate input" have the lighter part of the 
gradient at the bottom again.

I think a "pressed down" look is best for selected headings; for hovered 
headings a lighter version of the same gradient would look best probably.

cheers,
Wilbert Berendsen

-- 
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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Valentin Villenave]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Jan
Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> Yay, a new report.  Thanks!

You're welcome -- I hope I didn't betray your thoughts :-)

> Combining these 3-4 things from the report
>
> 1a --> nice photo of John and Valentin

_NICE_, really? Duh.

> 1b --> missing photo of Francisco

FWIW there's one at
http://news.lilynet.net/The-LilyPond-Report-5#outil_sommaire_5

> made me think: wouldn't it be nice to have photos of all developers/
> translators on the new authors page?

I don't know. On one hand I like the idea, on the other hand isn't
there a risk to turn into a ridiculous corporate-looking website such
as http://www.boardmember.com/ourpeople.aspx ?

Regards,
Valentin


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Re: website draft 9

[Valentin Villenave]

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Wilbert Berendsen wrote:
> I very much like the new layout. A little nitpick: on hovering the menu bars,

BTW: am I the only one feeling a bit troubled when looking at the
attached picture?

(go to their website to see the hovering and on-click effects, that
should look familiar too)

Regards,
Valentin
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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op maandag 07-09-2009 om 13:14 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Valentin
Villenave:

> > made me think: wouldn't it be nice to have photos of all developers/
> > translators on the new authors page?
> 
> I don't know. On one hand I like the idea, on the other hand isn't
> there a risk to turn into a ridiculous corporate-looking website such
> as http://www.boardmember.com/ourpeople.aspx ?

Yeah, good idea let's try to copy that page.

:-)

Greetings,
Jan


-- 
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Re: website draft 9

[Wilbert Berendsen]

Op maandag 07 september 2009, schreef Valentin Villenave:
> BTW: am I the only one feeling a bit troubled when looking at the
> attached picture?

There are similarities, but then it's quite logical to have a "home" button in 
the top left corner, (and also to have a "home" button that is a logo) , and a 
search box in the upper right corner :-)

I think there are many more websites using a similar interface.

I like the Lily colors much better than the apple grey... :)

best regards,
Wilbert Berendsen

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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

 
> BTW: am I the only one feeling a bit troubled when looking at the
> attached picture?
> 
> (go to their website to see the hovering and on-click effects, that
> should look familiar too)

So what's the trouble? This is what you call "inspiration"! ;-) You could also 
have a look at http://www.nivea.de:80/de/haus/berlin/index ... The menu bar is 
some sort of mixture of them both but it's not the same.

Cheers,
patrick
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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

> I very much like the new layout. A little nitpick: on hovering the menu
> bars, 
> some gradients just become lighter, others look like mirrored upside down
> (or 
> pressed down). For example, go to 
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/Introduction.html: the headings Featutes, 
> Examples, Freedom, Background invert the background on hovering (the white
> end 
> of the gradient is at the bottom), while Productions and Testimonials just
> get 
> lighter. "Text input" and "Alternate input" have the lighter part of the 
> gradient at the bottom again.
> 
> I think a "pressed down" look is best for selected headings; for hovered 
> headings a lighter version of the same gradient would look best probably.

Thanks for your comments. I'll take care.

Cheers,
patrick

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Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

Dear Lilyponders,

Finally, I got some microtonal notation working in Lilypond that uses
a special font for the accidentals (i.e. not the usual Feta font),
please see the attached example PDF file. The full Lilypond code is
included at the end of this mail. This example shows a harmonic
seventh chord over C (first as an "arpeggio" and then all notes
together) using the "Extended Helmholtz-Ellis JI Pitch Notation" (HE
for short) by Marc Sabat and Wolfgang von Schweinitz. Besides non-
Feta accidentals, the example also uses accidentals that consist of
multiple signs where additional signs show comma inflections (e.g.,
the septimal comma before the B-flat in the example, the harmonic 7th
over C). The required font and further information about this
notation is available at

   http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-font-2009.zip.

I implemented this microtonal notation by changing the notation of
accidentals to markups, following an idea by Graham Breed. Doing so
did not only allow for selecting a different font, but also for
accidentals that consist of more than a single sign. Changing
accidentals for individual notes in a chord was particularly tricky,
and I used an idea by Mark Polesky for this.

Anyway, although this this approach to microtonal notation is already
usable, it could use some improvements. I would be grateful for
suggestions.

The main problem is the horizontal spacing. Spacing with single-sign
accidentals works fine, Lilypond takes care of that automatically.
However, Lilypond does not know about multiple-sign accidentals, so I
somehow have to create more horizontal space for these manually. The
Lily manual (http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/
lilypond/Horizontal-spacing-overview#Horizontal-spacing-overview)
suggests as a trick to use the following code, however I could not
get this approach working. What am I missing?

  \once \override Score.SeparationItem #'padding = #1

Instead, I globally increased the horizontal spacing (http://
lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Changing-
horizontal-spacing#Changing-horizontal-spacing).

Any further idea to insert some additional horizonal space before a
note in order to fit in complex accidentals? Spacing of multiple-sign
accidentals in a chord is even more tricky...

The second issue is the readability of the Lilypond code. I defined
the music function \accidental that expects a markup and sets the
accidental of next note to that markup. I also started defining
readable accidental names that are mapped to the respective markup.
For example, the following two notes are first an untransposed C and
then an E a just major third above it: with respect to the
Phythagorean E it is transposed down by a syntonic comma (see the
second note in the attached example).

   c
   \accidental \naturalSyntonicDown
   e

However, I failed to do the same for chord tones. I need to define a
music function that creates the following code, but the markup should
be given as an argument, as above.

\tweak #'before-line-breaking #(accidental-text (markup #:sans "m"))

The problem might be that I do not know how to automatically
translate a Lily-syntax markup (e.g., \markup{\sans "m"}) into the
Scheme-syntax markup required here.

Of course, I also cordially welcome any other ideas for improving
this approach to microtonal notation.

Thank you!

Best
Torsten

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University of Plymouth
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---
%% Lily code (first various defs and then the score at the end)

\version "2.12.00"

%% Font "HE" must be installed (e.g., on MacOS in /Library/Fonts)
%% Font HE put in as 2nd font: can be accessed as \sans
\paper{
#(define fonts (make-pango-font-tree "Century Schoolbook L"
  "HE"
  "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
 1))
}

\layout {
   \context
   { \Score
 %% more space between all notes (to allow for extra accidentals)
 \override SpacingSpanner #'base-shortest-duration = #(ly:make- 
moment 1 16)

 %% all accidentals are written as markups
 \override Accidental #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
 %% default is natural accidental -- causes error...
 \override Accidental #'text = #(markup #:sans "n")
   }
}

#(define (modify-accidental note-grob prop-alist)
   ;; notehead before-line-breaking callback
   (let ((accidental (ly:grob-object note-grob 'accidental-grob)))
(if (not (null? accidental))
 (for-each
  (lambda (x)
   (ly:grob-set-property! accidental (car x) (cdr x)))
  prop-alist
#(define (accidental-text markup)
   (lambda (grob)
(modify-accidental grob `((text . ,markup)

%% expects a markup and sets accidental of next note to that markup
accidental =
#(define-music-function (par

Re: quadratic noteheads

[Mats Bengtsson]

The builtin support for different noteheads is shown at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Note-head-styles#Note-head-styles
but a skilled Scheme hacker should be able to produce other shapes as 
well, if needed.


   /Mats

Stefan Thomas wrote:

Dear community,
is it possible to get quadratic noteheads?





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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

> > > http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> > >
> > > Please comment.
> 
> What especially do you want comments on?  
> 
> Most images are broken.  Could it be that you did not run post-www.py?
> 
> How about having a priority list of things that need to be fixed, e
> 
>   -> /Introduction/Features seems to be one of the first pages the user
>  is directed towards, and it has a big "help" box.
> 
>   -> Learning.html is "empty"
> 
>   -> The "essay" and author links still say "blah".
> 
> Related to that...I'm not very pleased with the top level pages
> "Manuals" and "Community".
> 
> When you click on Manuals or Community, you enter some kind of "link 
> farm", there's no real content there.
> 
> What about, instead of showing the second-level "(main)" overview,
> opening the second second-level menu entry, ie
> 
>   Manuals --> Learning.html
>   Community --> Contact.html
> 
> [supposing those are the best guesses/most used pages by first-timers]
Thanks for your comments. Sorry for not having been precise. I changed some 
aspects of the layout (which were to be commented) and therefore didn't have 
time to create content as well. I get the impression that Graham's calls for 
help on content haven't fallen on very fertile ground of lately.

Cheers,
patrick

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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 12:50:50PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> Most images are broken.  Could it be that you did not run post-www.py?

Images are fine on master.  For various reasons, he's working on
web-gop, and for various reasons, images don't work on web-gop.
And no, it's not worth fixing or asking why.

I should have asked him to clarify that he wanted comments about
the CSS, rather than content.

> How about having a priority list of things that need to be fixed, e
> 
>   -> /Introduction/Features seems to be one of the first pages the user
>  is directed towards, and it has a big "help" box.

Well, that *is* a priority to be fixed.  :)

>   -> Learning.html is "empty"
> 
>   -> The "essay" and author links still say "blah".

Those are content issues, and were already fixed on master.

> Related to that...I'm not very pleased with the top level pages
> "Manuals" and "Community".
> 
> When you click on Manuals or Community, you enter some kind of "link 
> farm", there's no real content there.
> 
> What about, instead of showing the second-level "(main)" overview,
> opening the second second-level menu entry, ie
> 
>   Manuals --> Learning.html
>   Community --> Contact.html
> 
> [supposing those are the best guesses/most used pages by first-timers]

I disagree here -- although those pages might be most used by
first-timers, I'd wager that the most common doc use is the NR.


If anybody really wants to see the content (i.e. current docs from
master), they know where to find it.  I'll be asking for public
comments about this in a few days.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:50:44AM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> made me think: wouldn't it be nice to have photos of all developers/
> translators on the new authors page?

I have mixed feelings about this.  I must admit that I was
surprised at how much the photos add to the Testimonials page --
the first version I made omitted the photos, and it didn't have
the same feeling at all.  They really do seem to add more "weight"
or a "real-person testimony" feeling.

However, I don't particularly want my photo on the lilypond
website.  This opens the possibility of having photos of some
developers but not others, which might seem a big ragged or
unbalanced.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:41:15AM +0200, Valentin Villenave wrote:
> Two minor comments:
>  - On the homepage, it would be nice if the two subsubheadings for
> "Stable" and "Unstable" didn't have the same bg-color (a little
> brownish for the unstable release, accordingly to our color-code).
> IIRC that had already been considered?

That's a nice idea; we could use color1 and color4.

> It's hard to tell without the logos, but I have the feeling this
> download page won't be my friend. It's a pity there isn't any link to
> the development releases whatsoever (though it's linked from the home
> page, which is kind of inconsistent).

On master, there's a Download->Development.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: quadratic noteheads

[Karl Hammar]

> The builtin support for different noteheads is shown at
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Note-head-styles#Note-head-styles
> but a skilled Scheme hacker should be able to produce other shapes as 
> well, if needed.
> 
> /Mats
> 
> Stefan Thomas wrote:
> > Dear community,
> > is it possible to get quadratic noteheads?

Not fully quadratic, but theese might do:

\version "2.13.0"
\relative c'' {
 \override NoteHead #'style = #'vaticana.punctum
  c4 b a g
}

Regards,
/Karl

---
Karl HammarAspö Data   k...@aspodata.se
Lilla Aspö 148 Networks
S-742 94 Östhammar  +46  173 140 57   Computers
Sweden +46  70 511 97 84 Consulting
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Re: website draft 9

[Joseph Wakeling]

Patrick Schmidt wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.
> 
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> 
> Please comment.

Big improvements in look and in readability/usability of the menu bars
(especially the second-level; it's now really easy to see which item is
currently selected).

Top-level menu: odd thing where the selected item has a black line on
the bottom, except for the leftmost 'lily' button.

GPL page: should the page mention that Lilypond is released under GPLv2
or later?

Testimonials page: note that the convention for English with multiple
paragraphs being quoted is to _begin_ each paragraph with an opening
quote mark but not close it until the end of the complete quote.

 "That is to say, you do your first paragraph like this.  You
 open it with a quote mark, but at the end, do not close it.

 "You then continue your second paragraph with an opening quote
 mark, and close the quotes at the end of the complete quoted
 section, like so."

Also, that you have double quote marks inside double quote marks (yes, I
know, you are literally copying and pasting from people's plain-text
emails; which is also why emphasised text is written *like this* instead
of being actual emphasis:-)

What's the difference between the essay referred to on the Introduction
> Background page and that referred to in Manuals > Introduction?

I recommend still referring to 'Learning Manual' even though only the
word 'Learning' has the hyperlink.  Rationale: on the FAQ page, the
phrase 'You need to read the Learning' looks ridiculous.

Community > Contact: place a small note politely requesting users to
make sure they have read the Learning Manual thoroughly before asking
questions on the mailing list?

Introduction > Alternate Input: mention Frescobaldi?

Hope this helps,

Best wishes,

-- Joe



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Re: quadratic noteheads

[Karl Hammar]

> > The builtin support for different noteheads is shown at
> > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Note-head-styles#Note-head-styles
...
> > Stefan Thomas wrote:
> > > Dear community,
> > > is it possible to get quadratic noteheads?
> 
> Not fully quadratic, but theese might do:
> 
> \version "2.13.0"
> \relative c'' {
>  \override NoteHead #'style = #'vaticana.punctum
>   c4 b a g
> }

Theese are more square:

\version "2.13.0"
\relative c'' {
 \override NoteHead #'style = #'medicaea.punctum
  c4 b a g
}

Regards,
/Karl

---
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Lilla Aspö 148 Networks
S-742 94 Östhammar  +46  173 140 57   Computers
Sweden +46  70 511 97 84 Consulting
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Re: quadratic noteheads

[Robin Bannister]

Have a look at  
filled:  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-10/msg00516.html

hollow:  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-05/msg00593.html


Cheers,
Robin


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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Francisco Vila]

2009/9/7 Graham Percival :
> However, I don't particularly want my photo on the lilypond
> website.  This opens the possibility of having photos of some
> developers but not others, which might seem a big ragged or
> unbalanced.

A possibility would be

Developer One
Developer Two
Developer Three [small link to photo]
Developer Four [small link to photo]
Developer Five

No one has a photo showed directly (looks balanced) but there are
links to photos for some developers who don't mind to have one.

-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
www.paconet.org
www.csmbadajoz.com


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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Jan Nieuwenhuizen]

Op maandag 07-09-2009 om 14:43 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Graham
Percival:
> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:50:44AM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:

> I have mixed feelings about this.  I must admit that I was
> surprised at how much the photos add to the Testimonials page --
> the first version I made omitted the photos, and it didn't have
> the same feeling at all.  They really do seem to add more "weight"
> or a "real-person testimony" feeling.

Yes that too :-)

> However, I don't particularly want my photo on the lilypond
> website.  This opens the possibility of having photos of some
> developers but not others, which might seem a big ragged or
> unbalanced.

Why not?  The good thing about adding your photo to the lily
website, is that you can also join facebook and waste time
there ;-)

Or what about stealing a creative idea from

   http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-images/anonymous.html

such as the profile.

Greetings,
Jan.

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen  | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter
Avatar®: http://AvatarAcademy.nl| http://lilypond.org



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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Robin Bannister]

Torsten Anders wrote:  
 However, I failed to do the same for chord tones. 


Something like this? 


%%
tweakAccidental =
#(define-music-function (parser location mkup mus) (markup? ly:music?) 
  (set! (ly:music-property mus 'tweaks) 
(acons 'before-line-breaking (accidental-text mkup)  
   (ly:music-property mus 'tweaks)))
   mus) 
%%


 <
   c'!
   \tweakAccidental \naturalSyntonicDown
   e'!
   g'!
   \tweakAccidental \markup{\halign #0 \sans "2


Cheers,
Robin


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Re: quadratic noteheads

[Stefan Thomas]

Dear Robin, Dear Mats,
thanks for Your help. I guess I know now how to do it!

2009/9/7 Robin Bannister 

> Have a look at  filled:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2008-10/msg00516.html
> hollow:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-05/msg00593.html
>
>
> Cheers,
> Robin
>
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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick McCarty]

On 2009-09-07, Patrick Schmidt wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I proudly present draft 9 of the new website.
> 
> http://lilypond.org/~graham/out/
> 
> Please comment.

Very cool.  I like it.

One comment about the lily-home-png:  I don't really like the gray
top/bottom border you are using, since the other gradient images don't
have this border.

> BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab
> with the lily on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the
> rest of the main menu bar even though all pngs have the same size?

Yes, this is because there are hair-splitting calculations going on in
the CSS.

The tiny "border" that appears underneath the top navigation bar is
the result of background colors showing through, since the
line-height/padding of the text is slightly larger than the gradient
images.  In other words, everything is currently estimated, and I
don't know how to make it more exact.

The lily-home-png image appears to be a different size because of this
estimation.  The attached patch seems to provide better results, but I
don't know if this is what you want.  I've only tested Firefox 3.5.2.

Thanks,
Patrick
>From 96b67be5cfc7ce8c72dcd9d7340ffeccb0a343d9 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Patrick McCarty 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:48:43 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] Fix TOC issue

---
 texinfo/css/alt4.css |4 ++--
 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/texinfo/css/alt4.css b/texinfo/css/alt4.css
index 9686708..2574151 100644
--- a/texinfo/css/alt4.css
+++ b/texinfo/css/alt4.css
@@ -138,7 +138,7 @@ url(../pictures/lily-home.png) no-repeat 50% 50%, #582007;*/
   width: 17%;
   background: #6aec7c url(../pictures/nav-bg-3.png);
   font-size: 100%;
-  padding: 0.5em 0.8%;
+  padding: 0.45em 0.8%;
   margin: 0;
 }
 
@@ -170,7 +170,7 @@ url(../pictures/lily-home.png) no-repeat 50% 50%, #582007;*/
   width: 18%;
   text-align: center;
   font-weight: bold;
-  padding: 0.71em 0;
+  padding: 0.68em 0;
   margin: 0;
   background: #6aec7c url(../pictures/nav-bg-3.png);
 }
-- 
1.6.4.2

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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Kees van den Doel]

Not sure if it will help you, but you can look at my solution for microtonal 
notation in this package: http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/tmp/persian.zip

Cheers,
Kees



- Original Message -
From: Torsten Anders 
Date: Monday, September 7, 2009 5:21 am
Subject: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Cc: "tun...@yahoogroups.com" 

> Dear Lilyponders,
> 
> Finally, I got some microtonal notation working in Lilypond that uses
> a special font for the accidentals (i.e. not the usual Feta font),
> please see the attached example PDF file. The full Lilypond code is
> included at the end of this mail. This example shows a harmonic
> seventh chord over C (first as an "arpeggio" and then all notes
> together) using the "Extended Helmholtz-Ellis JI Pitch Notation" (HE
> for short) by Marc Sabat and Wolfgang von Schweinitz. Besides 
> non-
> Feta accidentals, the example also uses accidentals that consist of
> multiple signs where additional signs show comma inflections (e.g.,
> the septimal comma before the B-flat in the example, the 
> harmonic 7th
> over C). The required font and further information about this
> notation is available at
> 
>     http://music.calarts.edu/~msabat/ms/pdfs/HE-
> font-2009.zip.
> 
> I implemented this microtonal notation by changing the notation of
> accidentals to markups, following an idea by Graham Breed. Doing so
> did not only allow for selecting a different font, but also for
> accidentals that consist of more than a single sign. Changing
> accidentals for individual notes in a chord was particularly tricky,
> and I used an idea by Mark Polesky for this.
> 
> Anyway, although this this approach to microtonal notation is already
> usable, it could use some improvements. I would be grateful for
> suggestions.
> 
> The main problem is the horizontal spacing. Spacing with single-sign
> accidentals works fine, Lilypond takes care of that automatically.
> However, Lilypond does not know about multiple-sign accidentals, 
> so I
> somehow have to create more horizontal space for these manually. The
> Lily manual (http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/
> lilypond/Horizontal-spacing-overview#Horizontal-spacing-overview)
> suggests as a trick to use the following code, however I could not
> get this approach working. What am I missing?
> 
>    \once \override Score.SeparationItem #'padding = #1
> 
> Instead, I globally increased the horizontal spacing (http://
> lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond/Changing-
> horizontal-spacing#Changing-horizontal-spacing).
> 
> Any further idea to insert some additional horizonal space 
> before a
> note in order to fit in complex accidentals? Spacing of multiple-sign
> accidentals in a chord is even more tricky...
> 
> The second issue is the readability of the Lilypond code. I defined
> the music function \accidental that expects a markup and sets the
> accidental of next note to that markup. I also started defining
> readable accidental names that are mapped to the respective markup.
> For example, the following two notes are first an untransposed C and
> then an E a just major third above it: with respect to the
> Phythagorean E it is transposed down by a syntonic comma (see the
> second note in the attached example).
> 
>     c
>     \accidental \naturalSyntonicDown
>     e
> 
> However, I failed to do the same for chord tones. I need to 
> define a
> music function that creates the following code, but the markup should
> be given as an argument, as above.
> 
> \tweak #'before-line-breaking #(accidental-text (markup #:sans "m"))
> 
> The problem might be that I do not know how to automatically
> translate a Lily-syntax markup (e.g., \markup{\sans "m"}) into the
> Scheme-syntax markup required here.
> 
> Of course, I also cordially welcome any other ideas for improving
> this approach to microtonal notation.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Best
> Torsten
> 
> --
> Torsten Anders
> Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
> University of Plymouth
> Office: +44-1752-586219
> Private: +44-1752-558917
> http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
> http://www.torsten-anders.de
> 
> 
> ---
> %% Lily code (first various defs and then the score at the end)
> 
> \version "2.12.00"
> 
> %% Font "HE" must be installed (e.g., on MacOS in /Library/Fonts)
> %% Font HE put in as 2nd font: can be accessed as \sans
> \paper{
> #(define fonts (make-pango-font-tree "Century Schoolbook L"
>    "HE"
>    "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
>   1))
> }
> 
> \layout {
>     \context
>     { \Score
>   %% more space between all notes 
> (to allow for extra accidentals)
>   \override SpacingSpanner #'base-
> shortest-duration = #(ly:make- 
> moment 1 16)
>   %% all accidentals are written as 
> markups  \override Accidental 
> #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::pr

Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 12:54:13PM -0700, Patrick McCarty wrote:
> The tiny "border" that appears underneath the top navigation bar is
> the result of background colors showing through, since the
> line-height/padding of the text is slightly larger than the gradient
> images.

What happens if we simply remove that background color?  I mean,
if we're displaying a png, we don't *want* any background color in
there anyway.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick McCarty]

On 2009-09-07, Graham Percival wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 12:54:13PM -0700, Patrick McCarty wrote:
> > The tiny "border" that appears underneath the top navigation bar is
> > the result of background colors showing through, since the
> > line-height/padding of the text is slightly larger than the gradient
> > images.
> 
> What happens if we simply remove that background color?  I mean,
> if we're displaying a png, we don't *want* any background color in
> there anyway.

That's okay with me.  There are at least two (maybe three) background
colors to remove though (starting with div#tocframe).

The line-height/padding issue is different though; the patch I posted
might fix it if the other Patrick agrees that it looks okay.

Thanks,
Patrick


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NR typo: Minor-major seventh chord

[Andrew Tucker]

In NR B.2 Common chord modifiers, I think the line with:

Minor-major seventh
Minor triad, major seventh
maj7.5-
<>


-> should change to:  maj7.3- (both text and chord)

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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 04:25:28PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
> GPL page: should the page mention that Lilypond is released under GPLv2
> or later?

It's not; lilypond is currently GPLv2.

> Testimonials page: note that the convention for English with multiple
> paragraphs being quoted is to _begin_ each paragraph with an opening
> quote mark but not close it until the end of the complete quote.

Yeah, I know.  :(   Changing that would require dumping @qq{foo},
which would probably break some translations.
(notably the French <> thing)

> Also, that you have double quote marks inside double quote marks (yes, I
> know, you are literally copying and pasting from people's plain-text
> emails; which is also why emphasised text is written *like this* instead
> of being actual emphasis:-)

I don't see anything wrong with double-quotes inside
double-quotes... are you proposing that they should be replaced
with single-quotes?  (that said, they should use @qq instead of an
acutal "")

I fixed the emphasis thing.

> What's the difference between the essay referred to on the Introduction
> > Background page and that referred to in Manuals > Introduction?
> 
> I recommend still referring to 'Learning Manual' even though only the
> word 'Learning' has the hyperlink.  Rationale: on the FAQ page, the
> phrase 'You need to read the Learning' looks ridiculous.

Already changed in master.

> Community > Contact: place a small note politely requesting users to
> make sure they have read the Learning Manual thoroughly before asking
> questions on the mailing list?

I'm not certain about this.  At the moment, my instinct is to see
how many clueless people we have cluttering up the mailist a few
months after the new website is live.  I think all the "Text
input" links should settle many of those questions.

Learning 1.3.4   has a nice (if I may say so myself) summary of
really important doc sections that get missed, so that should help
as well.

> Introduction > Alternate Input: mention Frescobaldi?

Patches accepted.  I'm not writing more Alternate input stuff.

NB: by default, any programs go under Other.  We only add
individual boxes if it's a really well-featured, stable, and
well-used program.  (maybe Frescobaldi qualifies, but I'd like
some evidence of this first)

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Anthony W. Youngman]

In message <1252345554.16636.3.ca...@heerbeest>, Jan Nieuwenhuizen 
 writes

Or what about stealing a creative idea from

  http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-images/anonymous.html

such as the profile.

Greetings,
Jan.


I'd just use the picture of me by E. H. Shepard, except I haven't done 
anything to get me a place on that list. I can't think of anything for 
you, though, unless you can find a picture of your place on the Round 
Table? That might be a good one.


Cheers,
Wol
--
Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk



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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

> On 2009-09-07, Graham Percival wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 12:54:13PM -0700, Patrick McCarty wrote:
> > > The tiny "border" that appears underneath the top navigation bar is
> > > the result of background colors showing through, since the
> > > line-height/padding of the text is slightly larger than the gradient
> > > images.
> > 
> > What happens if we simply remove that background color?  I mean,
> > if we're displaying a png, we don't *want* any background color in
> > there anyway.
Why don't we want any background colors? Don't they ensure that the basic 
layout remains if somebody deactivates the graphics in the browser.

> 
> That's okay with me.  There are at least two (maybe three) background
> colors to remove though (starting with div#tocframe).
> 
> The line-height/padding issue is different though; the patch I posted
> might fix it if the other Patrick agrees that it looks okay.
It sure does look okay. Thank you very much. BTW as I don't have much/any 
experience with git I integrated your changes manually. I'm sure I could have 
used a git command for this. Graham could you please commit and upload 
Patrick's patch?

Cheers,
patrick

-- 
Neu: GMX Doppel-FLAT mit Internet-Flatrate + Telefon-Flatrate
für nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02


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Left Bar; Repeated Clefs

[Gus]

Hi,

 I'm trying to create an exercise sheet but I'm stuck. I need to create left
barlines and repeated clefs. This is what I have so far:


\version "2.12.2"

\paper {
 #(set-paper-size "a4")
}

\header {
 title = "Exercise 1"
}

#(set-global-staff-size 30)

\markup {
 \wordwrap {
  Write a note indicating the line or space given below each measure on the 
staff:
 }
}

\score {
 {
  \override Staff.BarLine #'break-visibility = #'#(#t #t #t)
  s1_"Line 3" | s1_"Space 2" | s1_"Line 1" | s1_"Space 4" \break
  s1_"Line 5" | s1_"Space 1" | s1_"Line 4" | s1_"Space 3" \break
 }
 \layout {
  indent = 0\cm
  \context {
   \Staff
   \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
   \remove "Clef_engraver"
  }
  \context {
   \Score
   \remove "Bar_number_engraver"
  }
 }
}

\markup {
 Write the line or space number for the given note below the staff:
}

\score {
 {
  \override Staff.BarLine #'break-visibility = #'#(#t #t #t)
  e''1 | e'1 | a'1 | b'1 \break
  f'1 | f''1 | c''1 | g'1 \break
 }
 \layout {
  indent = 0\cm
  \context {
   \Staff
   \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
   \remove "Clef_engraver"
  }
  \context {
   \Score
   \remove "Bar_number_engraver"
  }
 }
}

\markup {
 Write the name of the given note below the staff:
}
\score {
 {
  \override Score.BreakAlignment #'break-align-orders = #'#((instrument-name
left-edge ambitus breathing-sign clef staff-bar key-cancellation key-signature
time-signature custos) (instrument-name left-edge ambitus breathing-sign
staff-bar clef key-cancellation key-signature staff time-signature custos)
(instrument-name left-edge ambitus breathing-sign clef key-cancellation
key-signature staff-bar time-signature custos))
  \override Staff.Clef #'full-size-change = ##t
  s1 | \clef G s1 | \clef G s1 | \clef G s1 \break
  s1 | \clef G s1 | \clef G s1 | \clef G s1 \break
 }
 \layout {
  indent = 0\cm
  \context {
   \Staff
   \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
  }
  \context {
   \Score
   \remove "Bar_number_engraver"
  }
 }
}


Thanks,

Gus



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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:02:29PM +0200, Patrick Schmidt wrote:
> 
> > > What happens if we simply remove that background color?  I mean,
> > > if we're displaying a png, we don't *want* any background color in
> > > there anyway.
> Why don't we want any background colors? Don't they ensure that
> the basic layout remains if somebody deactivates the graphics in
> the browser.

Hmm, you have a point there.k

> > That's okay with me.  There are at least two (maybe three)
> > background colors to remove though (starting with
> > div#tocframe).
> > 
> > The line-height/padding issue is different though; the patch I
> > posted might fix it if the other Patrick agrees that it looks
> > okay.
> It sure does look okay. Thank you very much. BTW as I don't have
> much/any experience with git I integrated your changes manually.
> I'm sure I could have used a git command for this. Graham could
> you please commit and upload Patrick's patch?

Just include it in your next patch.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: [m.tarensk...@zonnet.nl: translation error]

[Martin Tarenskeen]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:27:25AM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> Op zondag 23-08-2009 om 19:01 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Martin

> > "geforceerde breuk werd opgeheft door andere gebeurtenis, zou je 
> > maatcontrole moeten gebruiken?"

> Fixed in GIT, thanks for the report!

Here's another one Dutch translation that I found:

"kan wellicht geen goede waardestreephelling kunnen vinden"

Should be

"kan wellicht geen goede waardestreephelling vinden"

Maybe someone can take care of this one too.

-- 

Martin Tarenskeen






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Re: Left Bar; Repeated Clefs

[Neil Puttock]

2009/9/7 Gus :

> \score {
>  {
>  \override Score.BreakAlignment #'break-align-orders = #'#((instrument-name
> left-edge ambitus breathing-sign clef staff-bar key-cancellation key-signature
> time-signature custos) (instrument-name left-edge ambitus breathing-sign
> staff-bar clef key-cancellation key-signature staff time-signature custos)
> (instrument-name left-edge ambitus breathing-sign clef key-cancellation
> key-signature staff-bar time-signature custos))
>  \override Staff.Clef #'full-size-change = ##t

Insert the following lines here:

\override Staff.Clef #'non-default = ##t
\set Staff.explicitClefVisibility = #end-of-line-invisible

Regards,
Neil


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Re: website draft 9

[Joseph Wakeling]

Graham Percival wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 04:25:28PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
>> GPL page: should the page mention that Lilypond is released under GPLv2
>> or later?
> 
> It's not; lilypond is currently GPLv2.

The copyright notice in my installed version of Lilypond (2.12 from the
package in Ubuntu Karmic) says 'GPLv2 or (at your option) any later
version'.  Has there been a change of policy on this ... ?  (... and
isn't there some kind of preference/pressure for GNU projects to either
upgrade to GPLv3 or at least have licensing compatible with it?)

>> Also, that you have double quote marks inside double quote marks (yes, I
>> know, you are literally copying and pasting from people's plain-text
>> emails; which is also why emphasised text is written *like this* instead
>> of being actual emphasis:-)
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with double-quotes inside
> double-quotes... are you proposing that they should be replaced
> with single-quotes?  (that said, they should use @qq instead of an
> acutal "")

Well, the English norm is to alternate, so,

   'Today I went to see the captain.  "Hello, Mrs Jones," he said,
   "You'll never guess what the First Mate said to me: 'Captain, it's
   raining herring!'"'

(I don't know what weird part of my head that phrase came from, but ... :-P)



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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

> Very cool.  I like it.
> 
> One comment about the lily-home-png:  I don't really like the gray
> top/bottom border you are using, since the other gradient images don't
> have this border.
Thanks for the hint. How did you spot the gray top/bottom border?With GIMP? I 
can't really see any borders in the browser (Firefox)?! It's strange that these 
borders don't show on the other gradient images as I developed all pngs from 
one original. If I cut off the borders of this original now and make new 
lily-home-pngs I would have to change all the pngs of the main menu bar because 
otherwise the gradients would differ a little bit. So for now I'm going to 
leave them as they are.

> 
> > BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab
> > with the lily on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the
> > rest of the main menu bar even though all pngs have the same size?
> 
> Yes, this is because there are hair-splitting calculations going on in
> the CSS.
> 
> The tiny "border" that appears underneath the top navigation bar is
> the result of background colors showing through, since the
> line-height/padding of the text is slightly larger than the gradient
> images.  In other words, everything is currently estimated, and I
> don't know how to make it more exact.
> 
> The lily-home-png image appears to be a different size because of this
> estimation.  The attached patch seems to provide better results, but I
> don't know if this is what you want.  I've only tested Firefox 3.5.2.
> 
> Thanks,
> Patrick

Thanks for your help!
patrick

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New user question - relative bowing and fingering marks

[John Ervin]

Hello,
When writing bowing marks on notes that have fingering with Lilypond, I'm
always getting the bowing mark close to the note and the fingering above
that bow mark.

Using:

d''4-2\upbow

or say

d''4^\markup { \finger 2}\upbow

This is rather atypical in my experience. Is there a way to have the
fingering close to the note and the bowing instruction above that?

As an aside the glyph used for upbow doesn't look consistent with the rest
of the glyph set. Typically the left hand side of the 'V' is darker than the
right. The glyph in use doesn't seem to match the downbow glyph.

thanks,
John
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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:30:14PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
> Graham Percival wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 04:25:28PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
> >> GPL page: should the page mention that Lilypond is released under GPLv2
> >> or later?
> > 
> > It's not; lilypond is currently GPLv2.
> 
> The copyright notice in my installed version of Lilypond (2.12 from the
> package in Ubuntu Karmic) says 'GPLv2 or (at your option) any later
> version'.

Sounds like a mistake in the packaging.  COPYING in the source
tree says GPLv2.

> Has there been a change of policy on this ... ?  (... and
> isn't there some kind of preference/pressure for GNU projects to either
> upgrade to GPLv3 or at least have licensing compatible with it?)

Please see the previous lengthy discussions on -devel before
asking more questions.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: website draft 9

[Neil Puttock]

2009/9/7 Graham Percival :

> I don't see anything wrong with double-quotes inside
> double-quotes... are you proposing that they should be replaced
> with single-quotes?  (that said, they should use @qq instead of an
> acutal "")

Nesting @qq seems to break compilation:

/home/neil/lilypond/Documentation//general/introduction.itexi:598:
Unknown command `qq'.
/home/neil/lilypond/Documentation//general/introduction.itexi:598: Misplaced {.
/home/neil/lilypond/Documentation//general/introduction.itexi:598: Misplaced }.
/home/neil/lilypond/Documentation//general/introduction.itexi:600:
Unknown command `qq'.
/home/neil/lilypond/Documentation//general/introduction.itexi:600: Misplaced {.
/home/neil/lilypond/Documentation//general/introduction.itexi:600: Misplaced }.

Regards,
Neil


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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:28:24PM +0100, Neil Puttock wrote:
> 2009/9/7 Graham Percival :
> 
> > I don't see anything wrong with double-quotes inside
> > double-quotes... are you proposing that they should be replaced
> > with single-quotes?  (that said, they should use @qq instead of an
> > acutal "")
> 
> Nesting @qq seems to break compilation:

Yeah, I discovered this a few minutes ago and changed them to
singles.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick Schmidt]

Hi Valentin,

thanks for your comments!
> Two minor comments:
>  - On the homepage, it would be nice if the two subsubheadings for
> "Stable" and "Unstable" didn't have the same bg-color (a little
> brownish for the unstable release, accordingly to our color-code).
> IIRC that had already been considered?
It's on my ToDo-list.
> - the heading-center text the doc and download page could use some
> (light) decoration.
Just to make sure: you mean the headings "LilyPond … music notation for 
everyone", "Downloads for LilyPond 2.12.2" and "Documentation for LilyPond 
2.12.2", right? What sort of decoration are you thinking of? Suggestions 
appreciated!

> 
> It's hard to tell without the logos, but I have the feeling this
> download page won't be my friend. It's a pity there isn't any link to
> the development releases whatsoever (though it's linked from the home
> page, which is kind of inconsistent).
But there *is* a link (see Download page: For developers - Development).

Cheers,
patrick

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Re: New user question - relative bowing and fingering marks

[Trevor Daniels]

John Ervin wrote Monday, September 07, 2009 10:32 PM

When writing bowing marks on notes that have fingering with 
Lilypond, I'm
always getting the bowing mark close to the note and the fingering 
above

that bow mark.

Using:

d''4-2\upbow

or say

d''4^\markup { \finger 2}\upbow

This is rather atypical in my experience. Is there a way to have 
the

fingering close to the note and the bowing instruction above that?


Yes, but it's rather cumbersome I'm afraid.

The relative positioning of script objects
is controlled by the 'script-priority property.
By default this left unspecified for most
articulations (including bowing commands) and set
to 100 for Fingering.  So we need to set it to
something greater than 100 for the bowing commands.
We can't use \override, as both articulations occur
at the same musical moment, so we must use \tweak,
like this:

d''4 -\tweak #'script-priority #200 \upbow -2

or like this (the order doesn't matter)

d''4 -2 -\tweak #'script-priority #200 \upbow

Alternatively, if you're feeling adventurous,
you could edit scm/script.scm to specify
script-priority for downbow and upbow, then
it would work as you want by default.

As an aside the glyph used for upbow doesn't look consistent with 
the rest
of the glyph set. Typically the left hand side of the 'V' is 
darker than the

right. The glyph in use doesn't seem to match the downbow glyph.


That's not something I know about; sorry.

Trevor



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Re: New user question - relative bowing and fingering marks

[Neil Puttock]

2009/9/7 Trevor Daniels :

> The relative positioning of script objects
> is controlled by the 'script-priority property.
> By default this left unspecified for most
> articulations (including bowing commands) and set
> to 100 for Fingering.  So we need to set it to
> something greater than 100 for the bowing commands.

Or set the Fingering's priority lower than the Script's.  ;)

If a script doesn't have a default in script.scm, the engraver
allocates it a priority starting at zero, so a negative value for the
fingering will produce the same result without having to use \tweak.

Regards,
Neil


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Re: website draft 9

[Patrick McCarty]

On 2009-09-07, Patrick Schmidt wrote:
> 
> > Very cool.  I like it.
> > 
> > One comment about the lily-home-png:  I don't really like the gray
> > top/bottom border you are using, since the other gradient images don't
> > have this border.
> Thanks for the hint. How did you spot the gray top/bottom
> border?With GIMP? I can't really see any borders in the browser
> (Firefox)?!

Try zooming in on the webpage in Firefox.  You can't zoom in as far as
with Opera, but the pixel-width top/bottom borders are definitely
visible at max-zoom in Firefox.

> It's strange that these borders don't show on the other
> gradient images as I developed all pngs from one original. If I cut
> off the borders of this original now and make new lily-home-pngs I
> would have to change all the pngs of the main menu bar because
> otherwise the gradients would differ a little bit. So for now I'm
> going to leave them as they are.

Okay.  But please consider changing them in a future design update.

Unless you *want* the top and bottom borders in the images.  Just as
long as we are consistent, things will look more professional.

> > > BTW: Has anybody out there a clue why the lily-home-png (the tab
> > > with the lily on the left) appears to be a wee bit smaller than the
> > > rest of the main menu bar even though all pngs have the same size?
> > 
> > Yes, this is because there are hair-splitting calculations going on in
> > the CSS.
> > 
> > The tiny "border" that appears underneath the top navigation bar is
> > the result of background colors showing through, since the
> > line-height/padding of the text is slightly larger than the gradient
> > images.  In other words, everything is currently estimated, and I
> > don't know how to make it more exact.
> > 
> > The lily-home-png image appears to be a different size because of this
> > estimation.  The attached patch seems to provide better results, but I
> > don't know if this is what you want.  I've only tested Firefox 3.5.2.
> 
> Thanks for your help!

You're welcome.

-Patrick


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Re: website draft 9

[Graham Percival]

On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 05:11:10PM -0600, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> 
> On 9/7/09 3:37 PM, "Graham Percival"  wrote:
> 
> > Sounds like a mistake in the packaging.  COPYING in the source
> > tree says GPLv2.
> 
> But GPL v2 has as part of its text "or (at your option) any later version'."
> 
> see 
> 
> at least if I understand it correctly.

You are incorrect -- or rather, that doesn't apply to lilypond.
The license states that you may add the optional text "or any
later version".  But this was not done in lilypond 12 years ago.
The COPYING file states the copyright license that lilypond is
under[1]; it does *not* include the "or any later version" clause.

[1] the code, at least.  Docs are FDL, and code snippets may have
their own license.


Again, please read the previous discussions on -devel.  The latest
one happened in June or July of this year.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

Dear Kees,

On 07.09.2009, at 21:10, Kees van den Doel wrote:
Not sure if it will help you, but you can look at my solution for  
microtonal notation in this package: http://people.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/tmp/persian.zip


Thank you for sharing this example. If I am not mistaken, you used the  
maqam example of the Lilypond  documentation as a starting point for  
this. The advantage is that introducing new note names for each pitch  
nominal and accidental combination makes the score is rather concise  
(however, you first have to define all those combinations and with a  
large number of accidentals as in the case of something like the  
Helmholtz-Ellis notation -- or Saggital notation for that matter --  
you get very very many note names).


I previously thought that the approach you are using is limited to  
signs from the Feta font, but you obviously managed to use other fonts  
as well, great! I will keep a mental note of that :)


Nevertheless, I don't see how with this approach you can have  
accidentals that consist of multiple signs. In order to make this  
point more clear I attached a version of the previous example  
transposed down by a septimal comma.


The accidentals for the chord get very cluttered in this example. Is  
it somehow possible to adapt the collision-avoidance code of  
accidentals to take the whole "area" of the accidental markups into  
account? I would rather prefer the output takes too much space than it  
is unreadable like this. For example, it would be great if accidental  
combinations would horizontally follow each other: first all  
accidentals for this note, then for that etc.


Thank you!

Best
Torsten

--
Torsten Anders
Interdisciplinary Centre for Computer Music Research
University of Plymouth
Office: +44-1752-586219
Private: +44-1752-558917
http://strasheela.sourceforge.net
http://www.torsten-anders.de


Lily-HE-accidentals-septimalCommaLower.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document


Lily-HE-accidentals-septimalCommaLower.ly
Description: Binary data



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Re: Microtonal Helmholtz-Ellis notation in Lilypond: fine-tuning

[Torsten Anders]

On 07.09.2009, at 19:57, Robin Bannister wrote:

Torsten Anders wrote:

However, I failed to do the same for chord tones.

Something like this?


Great, thank you very much!!

Now my remaining problem is the spacing. For example, can anyone  
explain to me how to use the following snippet from the documentation.  
It appears to do nothing for me.


 \once \override Score.SeparationItem #'padding = #1

Are there other ways to add some horizontal spacing before a note?

Thank you!

Best
Torsten



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Re: The LilyPond Report, again!

[Valentin Villenave]

Hi everybody,

That's not interesting enough to start a new thread, but I thought I'd
let you know...

I have recently been offered to write an article about GNU LilyPond in
the yearly magazine that is issued by the French Conservatories
Parents Association. This magazine is quite widely distributed in
French music schools, so it is kind of a big deal for us, PR-wise.

The issue was released today, and I have posted a rough translation on lilynet:
http://news.lilynet.net/Free-Music-Now

As you'll see, there's absolutely nothing new here (if anything, it is
overly simplified). This is also kind of a political/ideological
pamphlet, so consider yourselves warned :-)

PS. This article also includes a contribution by one of our members,
not the mildest one in this regard ;-)

Regards,
Valentin


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Re: NR typo: Minor-major seventh chord

[Tim McNamara]

Andrew Tucker wrote:

In NR B.2 Common chord modifiers, I think the line with:

Minor-major seventh
Minor triad, major seventh
maj7.5-


-> should change to: maj7.3- (both text and chord)


Clearly maj7.5- is *not* a minor-major seventh chord so that's a good 
catch.


The syntax that seems most logical to me is to call it what it is:  a 
minor triad with an added major seventh rather than a major seventh with 
a lowered third:  m7.7+ which is what I use in my .ly files (I am using 
an \include chord exceptions file, though, so I don't know offhand if 
m7.7+ will produce the desired result with LilyPond's defaults.


BTW it would also be more likely to find a maj7.11+ rather than a 
maj7.5- among jazz musicians at least.



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Re: website draft 9

[Carl Sorensen]

On 9/7/09 3:37 PM, "Graham Percival"  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 11:30:14PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
>> Graham Percival wrote:
>>> On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 04:25:28PM +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:
 GPL page: should the page mention that Lilypond is released under GPLv2
 or later?
>>> 
>>> It's not; lilypond is currently GPLv2.
>> 
>> The copyright notice in my installed version of Lilypond (2.12 from the
>> package in Ubuntu Karmic) says 'GPLv2 or (at your option) any later
>> version'.
> 
> Sounds like a mistake in the packaging.  COPYING in the source
> tree says GPLv2.

But GPL v2 has as part of its text "or (at your option) any later version'."

see 

at least if I understand it correctly.

Carl



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Re: mugshots for web page? [WAS: The LilyPond Report, again!]

[Peter Chubb]

> "Anthony" == Anthony W Youngman  writes:

Anthony> In message <1252345554.16636.3.ca...@heerbeest>, Jan
Anthony> Nieuwenhuizen  writes
>> Or what about stealing a creative idea from
>> 
>> http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-images/anonymous.html
>> 
>> such as the profile.
>> 
>> Greetings, Jan.

Anthony> I'd just use the picture of me by E. H. Shepard, except I
Anthony> haven't done anything to get me a place on that list. I can't
Anthony> think of anything for you, though, unless you can find a
Anthony> picture of your place on the Round Table? That might be a
Anthony> good one.

Unfortunately, E.H. Shepherd is still in copyright.
--
Dr Peter Chubbwww.nicta.com.au  peter DOT chubb AT nicta.com.au
http://www.ertos.nicta.com.au   ERTOS within National ICT Australia
From Imagination to Impact   Imagining the (ICT) Future


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Re: tieWaitForNote across staves

[Jonathan Wilkes]

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Robin Bannister  wrote:

> From: Robin Bannister 
> Subject: Re: tieWaitForNote across staves
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" , "lilypond-user" 
> 
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 1:02 AM
> Jonathan Wilkes
> wrote:   
> > I see a "cross-staff" property for grobs
> 
> But this doesn't mean that every sort of grob has it, or
> uses it.

Hi Robin,
 Thanks for the reply.  That clears up some things, but I'm still a little 
confused: let's say I open up the IR, start in the Voice context, 
and click the layout object TieColumn.  Now at the bottom of the TieColumn 
page, it says, "This object supports the following interface(s)..." and 
there's the grob-interface.

I previously thought that everything listed under the grob-interface 
would be common to all grobs, so that if you know something is a grob, you 
also know definitively that you can make it invisible with 'transparent, 
for example.

But since that's not the case, why does it say "This object supports..." 
at the bottom of the page for the object?  Does that mean they are 
available but not necessarily implemented?

> The file define-grob-properties.scm lists about a dozen
> grobs which do: Beam, Stem, Slur, TupletBracket, among
> others, but not TieColumn.  

Ah, I'll keep this file in mind for future problems.

> So your TieColumn only knows about the lower staff. 
> IR 3.2.109 says that a tie-configuration position is 
> >  the offset from the center of the staff in staff
> space
> i.e. the center of the lower staff in this case.  
> When you specify positions high on the lower staff,
> Lilypond takes care that this _doesn't_ intrude on the upper
> staff. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Robin
> 

Thanks.  I finally found a solution by just using a sextuplet in the 
right hand as well, and hiding the notes but leaving the ties. 
tieWaitForNote is very handy.

-Jonathan





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Re: New user question - relative bowing and fingering marks

[John Ervin]

Trevor,
Thanks that solved it. I just added

(script-priority . 2000)

to upbow and downbow in script.scm (which is
in \usr\share\lilypond\current\scm in my Windows installation). This now
gives the typical behavior, but my .ly files won't be as portable as they
could be.

Now if someone just knew what needed to be done to replace that upbow
glyph...

John


>
> Alternatively, if you're feeling adventurous,
> you could edit scm/script.scm to specify
> script-priority for downbow and upbow, then
> it would work as you want by default.
>
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Re: NR typo: Minor-major seventh chord

[Andrew Tucker]

On Sep 7, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:


Andrew Tucker wrote:

In NR B.2 Common chord modifiers, I think the line with:

Minor-major seventh
Minor triad, major seventh
maj7.5-

-> should change to: maj7.3- (both text and chord)


Clearly maj7.5- is *not* a minor-major seventh chord so that's a  
good catch.


The syntax that seems most logical to me is to call it what it is:   
a minor triad with an added major seventh rather than a major  
seventh with a lowered third:  m7.7+ which is what I use in my .ly  
files (I am using an \include chord exceptions file, though, so I  
don't know offhand if m7.7+ will produce the desired result with  
LilyPond's defaults.


m7.7+ does provide the desired results, though I believe it's because  
lilypond uses only the last alteration of a particular note (ie. 7.9+. 
9- will end up 7/b9 and lose the sharp nine). This behavior might  
change (?), if I remember the tenor of that discussion, so we probably  
shouldn't rely on it forever..


  m.7+ seems more logical to me, but resulted in " error: syntax  
error, unexpected '.' " for me. Guess we can't alter a minor triad.


BTW it would also be more likely to find a maj7.11+ rather than a  
maj7.5- among jazz musicians at least.






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Feature Request: ^\times and _\times

[Jonathan Wilkes]

I didn't see a place for feature requests on the documentation page, so 
I thought I'd post it here.

Also ^[ and _[ which I think I mentioned in another email.

-Jonathan


  


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Re: NR typo: Minor-major seventh chord

[Brett Duncan]

Andrew Tucker wrote:
m7.7+ does provide the desired results, though I believe it's because 
lilypond uses only the last alteration of a particular note (ie. 7.9+.9- 
will end up 7/b9 and lose the sharp nine). This behavior might change 
(?), if I remember the tenor of that discussion, so we probably 
shouldn't rely on it forever..


  m.7+ seems more logical to me, but resulted in " error: syntax error, 
unexpected '.' " for me. Guess we can't alter a minor triad.


Just put m7+ without the '.'

Brett


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Using Lilypond to produce publication-ready music

[Mark Engelberg]

For my first outing with Lilypond, I wanted to see whether I could produce sheet
music that fits this publication specification:
http://tinyurl.com/barbershop-notation-manual

Note that this document spells out exactly what is expected for this style of
music, and a full example is given at the end of the document.

The basic SATB template works reasonably well as a starting point.

Here are some of the issues I have faced:

First, the margins need to be bigger.  At least a 1/2-inch top, bottom, left,
and right.  I thought this would be easy to change, and there are in fact
settings for top and bottom and left, but not right.  I tried this in the \paper
block:
  top-margin = 10\mm
  bottom-margin = 10\mm
  left-margin = 16\mm
  #(define line-width (- line-width (* 8 mm)))

which sort of worked but not quite.  It's unclear to me how these margins
interact with other elements (for example, the header and footer, and the
title), and I'm not sure I'm getting the right amount of margin.

Second, a more substantial margin at the top is expected on the first page
(about 2 inches, including the title area), and I don't see any way to tweak
just the first page.  

Third, the font type and size are specified for all textual elements.  For
example, the title should be in 18-point Arial Bold.  The lyrics should be
11-point Times New Roman.  Before tweaking this aspect, I tried to see how
Lilypond would do things by default.  I thought the default Century font on the
lyrics looked too big and more "childish" than the typical Times New Roman.  

So I added:
myStaffSize = #20
  #(define fonts
(make-pango-font-tree "Times New Roman"
"Arial"
"Courier New"
(/ myStaffSize 20)))
to the \paper block.

Then, I went through and littered the header with markup blocks that specified
font style and size explicitly, for example:

  title = \markup {\sans {\bold \abs-fontsize #18 "YOU'RE THE ONLY GIRL THAT
MADE ME CRY"}}
  subtitle = \markup {\sans {\bold \abs-fontsize #12 "(1920)"}}

When I printed this, I wasn't 100% convinced that I was getting the absolute
point sizes I had requested, but it was pretty close.

Setting the absolute point size of the lyrics proved to be especially
problematic, because as far as I can tell, the only way to adjust the lyric
point size overall is to do it in a *relative* manner, for example:
  \layout {
\context {
  \Lyrics
  \override LyricText #'font-size = #-1
}
  }

But I can't figure out exactly what relative adjustment will get me to 11-point
type.

As far as the actual music goes, Lilypond's output looks good, although
definitely the staff lines and stems are all thicker and heavier than what I'm
used to.  

In this style of music, the glissando is usually written as a "trill-style"
glissando, which I handled by putting:
  \override Glissando #'style = #'trill
in my global block (repeated in every voice).
The trill-glissando looks strange if there isn't enough space between the notes,
but it looks fine for larger spaces.

When the two voices on a staff, share the rest, I expect to see one rest,
centered.  This seems to be difficult to do in Lilypond.  Searching through the
archives, I found this suggestion, which worked okay for my sample piece:
  \revert Rest #'direction
but then I also found several people saying that this does not work for dotted
rests, and I could not find a general solution to the problem.

One awkward aspect of doing this kind of music in Lilypond is the way that the
lyrics are mostly together, but occasionally split off for just a couple of
measures (see measures 27-28 of the sample piece).  It is possible to set up
multiple lyric lines, and just fill most of them with skips, but this means
accurately counting how many un-lyricized notes occur from the beginning of the
song to measure 27.  Someone suggested using more voices to distinguish they
rhythmically independent lines, which may be a worthwhile approach to this 
problem.

Finally, I still haven't figured out how to do the melody-following line in
Lilypond (see measures 12-13 in the sample piece).

Some things I haven't even begun to look at, but I assume are doable with some
effort:
numbering every measure
headers
footers
smaller note font for optional notes
markup of "x" where lead goes higher than tenor.
dashed slur lines

If anyone can offer more suggestions for developing a template that fits this
specification and can handle all the notational elements this style requires,
that would be great.  If anyone wants to take a stab at engraving a Lilypond
version of the sample song, and see how close we can get to the reference
version, that would be even better!





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