Re: Translation errors in German documentation
-Eluze schrieb: after some more reflection and searching for "Bundinstrument" with google (12 results in opera, 32 in firefox, there is even a wikipedia article raising the question, if a new category "Bundinstrumente" should be created! see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_Diskussion:Musik/Archiv_4#Kategorie_Bundinstrument.3F http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_Diskussion:Musik/Archiv_4#Kategorie_Bundinstrument.3F ) i think it would be better to replace all these expressions (gebundene instrumente, bundierte instrumente, bundinstrumente and similar with Instrumente mit Bünden or Saiteninstrumente mit Bünden. hope this is not to late! Seems so :-( Till has pushed the latest version. On the other hand, repeating "Saiteninstrumente mit Bünden" all over the place is rather clumsy, and I think everyone understands "Bundinstrumente" in the context - I used the term "Saiteninstrumente mit Bünden" at the beginning, so it should be clear that a "Bundinstrument" is in fact a "Saiteninstrument mit Bünden". "Gebundene|Bundierte Instrumente" should not be mentioned anymore throughout the text, so I can live with the chapters as they are. Thanks for your investigations! Marc ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
in http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page.de.html#Bar-numbers http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page.de.html#Bar-numbers , under Ausgewählte Schnipsel the last sentence of the first example says: Im folgenden Beispiel werden die Taktlinien überall ausgegeben: where it should be Taktnummern or Taktzahlen. thx -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/imprecise-Taktlinie-in-german-doc-%28NR%29-tp28534850p28534850.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
-Eluze wrote: > > in > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page.de.html#Bar-numbers > http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page.de.html#Bar-numbers > > , under Ausgewählte Schnipsel the last sentence of the first example says: > > Im folgenden Beispiel werden die Taktlinien überall ausgegeben: > > where it should be Taktnummern or Taktzahlen. > > thx > personnally i would prefer Taktnummern and another small detail: probably it should be Taktstriche (instead of Taktlinien) cheers -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/imprecise-Taktlinie-in-german-doc-%28NR%29-tp28534850p28535967.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
-Eluze writes: > -Eluze wrote: >> >> in >> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page.de.html#Bar-numbers >> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-big-page.de.html#Bar-numbers >> >> , under Ausgewählte Schnipsel the last sentence of the first example says: >> >> Im folgenden Beispiel werden die Taktlinien überall ausgegeben: >> >> where it should be Taktnummern or Taktzahlen. >> >> thx >> > personnally i would prefer Taktnummern Disagree. And a Google search for both terms shows about a 100:1 preference (and for the latter, about half of the result are from Lilypond documentation) for the term "Taktzahlen" which is what I am accustomed to hearing in orchestras and choirs. "Nummer" is more like a "set" in musician jargon. > and another small detail: probably it should be Taktstriche (instead > of Taktlinien) Definitely. Full agreement here. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Doc: NR removed @knownissue for X-staff tremelos
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:19 AM, James Lowe wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Mark Polesky wrote:
>>
>> Did you guys not see Neil's reply?
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-05/msg8.html
>>
>> Cross-staff unstemmed tremolos (note the spelling)
>
>> ... look terrible:
\new PianoStaff <<
\new Staff = "up" \relative c' {
s1
}
\new Staff = "down" \relative c'' {
\voiceOne
\repeat tremolo 16 {
32
{
\change Staff = "up"
\voiceTwo
32
}
}
}
Well, if somebody submitted this bug now, I wouldn't add it as a
@knownissue; I'd just expect it to be added as Defect-medium or
Defect-High. Patrick, could you check if we have such an issue
(potentially at a different priority) ?
> From my own perspective 'look terrible' is rather subjective and do they
> *always* look terrible in all cases or just in the simple example below?
>
> I am happy to put this @knownissue back but '...does not work well' wasn't
> really appropriate or useful to anyone when in fact the example above looked
> pretty OK to me.
I won't object if anybody wants to put the @knownissues back there
(potentially with a different wording), but I think for consistency
with (most) other problems in lilypond, dumping it in the tracker is
best.
Cheers,
- Graham
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Re: pdfsizeopt
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > > using pdfsizeopt (http://code.google.com/p/pdfsizeopt/) it is > possible, for example, to reduce the size of `notation.pdf' from > 24MByte to 15MByte. I consider this quite impressive. > > [All used components of pdfsizeopt are freely available, but one of > them (Multivalent) is not free in the GNU sense.] > > Wouldn't it be useful to add this to the build chain? The reduction in size would be nice, but I cannot support adding java as a build requirement. We could debate about the "free-ness" of java and how "free" we should keep this official GNU project, but leaving that aside, I have no stomach for adding java to the GUB build system. Sorry, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
ping Issue 931041: Fix #915 (faulty full-bar rest positioning with clef)
Any chance that somebody could step in, make the required changes, and get it pushed? Fix #915 (faulty full-bar rest positioning with clef) http://codereview.appspot.com/931041/show Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
David Kastrup wrote: > > > Disagree. And a Google search for both terms shows about a 100:1 > preference (and for the latter, about half of the result are from > Lilypond documentation) for the term "Taktzahlen" which is what I am > accustomed to hearing in orchestras and choirs. "Nummer" is more like a > "set" in musician jargon. > yes, but the term Taktzahl is mainly found in technical contexts! in a musical context it often means the number of measures which e.g. build a verse (in german: die (An-) Zahl (der) Takte obviously you can say: "Die Nummer des Taktes wird durch eine Zahl über dem Taktstrich angezeigt" but not "Die Nummer des Taktes wird durch eine Nummer über dem Taktstrich angezeigt". but for me it's ok to go with it! thanks Eluze -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/imprecise-Taktlinie-in-german-doc-%28NR%29-tp28534850p28537609.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: pdfsizeopt
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > > Folks, > > > using pdfsizeopt (http://code.google.com/p/pdfsizeopt/) it is > possible, for example, to reduce the size of `notation.pdf' from > 24MByte to 15MByte. I consider this quite impressive. > > [All used components of pdfsizeopt are freely available, but one of > them (Multivalent) is not free in the GNU sense.] > > Wouldn't it be useful to add this to the build chain? No. Their techniques should be part of GS which we use to generate the PDF. They'll serve a wider audience over there. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
-Eluze writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> >> >> Disagree. And a Google search for both terms shows about a 100:1 >> preference (and for the latter, about half of the result are from >> Lilypond documentation) for the term "Taktzahlen" which is what I am >> accustomed to hearing in orchestras and choirs. "Nummer" is more like a >> "set" in musician jargon. >> > yes, but the term Taktzahl is mainly found in technical contexts! I was talking about "Taktzahlen". Let's see where this leads Google: Results for: taktzahlen # Musiksoftware Forum: Taktzahlen bei Sibelius One for me. # Takt zählen? - DJ - Deejayforum.de [irrelevant because different word] # Ulrich Siegele: Taktzahlen als Ordnungsfaktor in Suiten- und ... Nontechnical, but measure count. # Prozzessor mit den höchsten Taktzahlen - Forum - CHIP Online Technical. # Taktzahlen und Kadenzen - [ Translate this page ] 5 posts - 4 authors Taktzahlen am Ende der Zeile finde ich auch sehr seltsam. Die sehen aus, wie ein Druckfehler. Das würde ich nur machen, wenn der Verlag darauf besteht. ... Another point for me (and from the Lilypond forum, to boot). # Bodenfreies gebundenes Containersystem ermöglicht hohe Taktzahlen ... Technical # Research centre Beethoven-Archiv - [ Translate this page ] Sie vermuten ganz richtig, die Taktzahlen stammen nicht von den Komponisten, ... Taktzahlen wurden erst sehr spät im 19. Jahrhundert eingeführt. ... Point for me. - [ Translate this page ] Taktzahlen WS 2009. Artkel geschrieben am 23. September 2009. Mendelssohn Ruy Blas Overtüre op. 95. A = T. 64. B = T. 80. C = T. 140. D = T. 160. E = T. 176 ... juso-stuttgart.de/2009/09/taktzahlen-ws-2009/ - Cached Point for me. > in a musical context it often means the number of measures which > e.g. build a verse (in german: die (An-) Zahl (der) Takte Not really "often". > obviously you can say: "Die Nummer des Taktes wird durch eine Zahl > über dem Taktstrich angezeigt" but not "Die Nummer des Taktes wird > durch eine Nummer über dem Taktstrich angezeigt". Uh, you are aware that you are arguing against your own proposal here? > but for me it's ok to go with it! I've also seen "Taktziffern" in composition competition rules, but that term makes my technical hide crawl, since its translation would be "measure digits". "Ziffern" are strictly the letters 0 to 9. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Doc: NR removed @knownissue for X-staff tremelos
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Graham Percival
wrote:
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:19 AM, James Lowe wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Mark Polesky wrote:
>>>
>>> Did you guys not see Neil's reply?
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2010-05/msg8.html
>>>
>>> Cross-staff unstemmed tremolos (note the spelling)
>>
>>> ... look terrible:
>
> \new PianoStaff <<
> \new Staff = "up" \relative c' {
> s1
> }
> \new Staff = "down" \relative c'' {
> \voiceOne
> \repeat tremolo 16 {
> 32
> {
> \change Staff = "up"
> \voiceTwo
> 32
> }
> }
> }
>
>
> Well, if somebody submitted this bug now, I wouldn't add it as a
> @knownissue; I'd just expect it to be added as Defect-medium or
> Defect-High. Patrick, could you check if we have such an issue
> (potentially at a different priority) ?
I couldn't find any open issues dealing with this, so I've just added it:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1087
Thanks,
Patrick
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Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:02:38PM +0200, David Kastrup wrote: > > yes, but the term Taktzahl is mainly found in technical contexts! > > I was talking about "Taktzahlen". Let's see where this leads Google: > > Results for: taktzahlen > # > Musiksoftware Forum: Taktzahlen bei Sibelius > > One for me. Well, the term `Taktzahlen' in this context still sounds really odd to me, and I'm a german native speaker, which is also an explanation for my broken english ;-) > Ulrich Siegele: Taktzahlen als Ordnungsfaktor in Suiten- und ... > > Nontechnical, but measure count. Right. The problem with `Zahlen' is that it's often a synonym for `Anzahl' (amount / count). > # > Prozzessor mit den höchsten Taktzahlen - Forum - CHIP Online > Technical. And a completely different context (clock speed of the CPU). [... snip ...] Even if www.googlefight.com shows more results for `Taktzahlen', it still doesn't mean that it's the correct word ;-) I'm not an active musician, and only decades ago I did do music with others (orchestra, choir), so I may be wrong, but I've a strong feeling towards `Taktnummern'. It's less ambigous. Ciao, Kili ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
Am 12.05.2010, 20:58 Uhr, schrieb Matthias Kilian : I'm not an active musician, and only decades ago I did do music with others (orchestra, choir), so I may be wrong, but I've a strong feeling towards `Taktnummern'. It's less ambigous. I've been in hundreds of rehearsals and never heard the word Taktnummern, only Taktzahlen. Henning ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Critical issues
Graham complaind about 10 critical issues in the last lilypond report.
***
Issue 815: Enhancement: AJAX-powered search auto-completion for the online
documentation
Why is this a critical issue for the lilypond release?
***
Issue 1080: Regression: bar lines in double bar are positioned too close
together
"pnorcks" mentions commit 27a4d9354effb09c696925881ec4df007da8a0db
as a possible cause. Reverting part of that commit:
diff --git a/lily/bar-line.cc b/lily/bar-line.cc
index d3f21e5..85b2e52 100644
--- a/lily/bar-line.cc
+++ b/lily/bar-line.cc
@@ -196,11 +196,9 @@ Bar_line::compound_barline (Grob *me, string str, Real h,
/*
should align to other side? this never appears
on the system-start?
+ */
m.add_at_edge (X_AXIS, RIGHT, thin, 0);
m.add_at_edge (X_AXIS, RIGHT, thin, thinkern);
- */
- m.add_at_edge (X_AXIS, LEFT, thin, thinkern / 2);
- m.add_at_edge (X_AXIS, RIGHT, thin, thinkern / 2);
}
else if (str.find ("S") != NPOS || str == "|._.|")
{
gives me the attached grace-start result which resembles the 2.13.17
result presented in the bug tracker.
What should we do about it?
***
Issue 989: ensure that no information is only in the regtests
Though Graham complain about this issue in the "report",
this seems to be taken by Valentin. He has a list at
http://wiki.lilynet.net/index.php/Regtests
What to do about it?
Shall we discuss individual items on the list?
***
Issue 915: Multi-measure rests dependent on prefatory matter in other staves
There seems to be a fix: http://codereview.appspot.com/931041/show
Do you need help testing the fix?
***
Issue 1031: constantly-changing input/regression/rest-collision-beam-note.ly
If it is changes every time, what is the correct output?
grace-start.pdf
Description: grace-start.pdf
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Great Experience!
Dear all, I'm a singer in the Wiener Singakademie[1] and two weeks from now we have a tour to Italy[2]. We'll be singing among others a little known piece by Torelli, for which we were told that the score would have to be typeset for us because it has never been published. So, today was our first rehearsal, and when we got the score I expected the worst, having seen other newly typeset scores with other applications. But: The score that we got looked just perfect -- not only professional, but really perfect and ready for printing by any publishing house. I got really jealous how any other notation software could produce so good- looking scores. The figured bass looked exactly like lilypond, but judging from the lyrics font and the position of the tempo markings, it didn't look like LilyPond, which made me even more jealous... And then I got the final page, and there it was: "Music engraving by LilyPond 2.12.3 -- www.lilypond.org Engraver Gianluca D'Orazio -- his.em...@example.com" WOW! You can't image what it feels like to be surprised like this in such a prefessional surrounding! I mean, that is the application we are all working on. And as this example shows, LilyPond can not only compete at this topmost level, it really beats anything else! So, Kudos to you all who worked on LilyPond and made it into the professional engraving application it is now! Thank you all for such a great experience, Reinhold [1] That's the choir of the Vienna concert house (http://www.wienersingakademie.at/ ) -- a really good choir. For example, our last concert two weeks ago was with the Vienna Symphony directed by Georges Prêtre (the conductor of the famous New year's concert)... Other concerts this year were with the Tchaikovsky Symphony Orchestra Moscow and V. Fedosejev, some radio broadcasts with the Radio Symphony Orchestra and Bertrand de Billy etc. (You can look up these conductors at Wikipedia if you don't know them yet) [2] Two concerts in Verona and Padova: See the final entries at http://www.wienersingakademie.at/index.php?nav=3&sub=2 Or the concert calendar of the festival: http://www.solistiveneti.it/home.php?lang=Eng&home=h&tp=calendario&venetof=s -- -- Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Where is the bug tracker?
Wouldn't it be nice to have a link to the bug tracker from http://lilypond.org/devel/ Regards /Karl Hammar ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
2010/5/12 Henning Plumeyer : > Am 12.05.2010, 20:58 Uhr, schrieb Matthias Kilian : > >> I'm not an active musician, and only decades ago I did do music >> with others (orchestra, choir), so I may be wrong, but I've a strong >> feeling towards `Taktnummern'. It's less ambigous. > > I've been in hundreds of rehearsals and never heard the word Taktnummern, > only Taktzahlen. Same here. :) Although in a rehearsal one would usually just say something like "in Takt ..." instead of using a construction involving "Taktzahlen". Cheers, Max ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: ping Issue 931041: Fix #915 (faulty full-bar rest positioning with clef)
On 12 May 2010 15:59, Graham Percival wrote: > Any chance that somebody could step in, make the required changes, and > get it pushed? Is it holding up 2.14? ;) I'll try to get a revised patch up for review by the weekend. Cheers, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Great Experience!
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > Dear all, > > I'm a singer in the Wiener Singakademie[1] and two weeks from now we have a > tour to Italy[2]. We'll be singing among others a little known piece by > Torelli, for which we were told that the score would have to be typeset for us > because it has never been published. > > So, today was our first rehearsal, and when we got the score I expected the > worst, having seen other newly typeset scores with other applications. But: > The score that we got looked just perfect -- not only professional, but really > perfect and ready for printing by any publishing house. > > I got really jealous how any other notation software could produce so good- > looking scores. > The figured bass looked exactly like lilypond, but judging from the lyrics > font and the position of the tempo markings, it didn't look like LilyPond, > which made me even more jealous... Was the music font lily's feta font? The G-clef is a give-away, because Feta's is quite unlike any other G-clef. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
David Kastrup wrote:
>
> -Eluze writes:
>
>> yes, but the term Taktzahl is mainly found in technical contexts!
>
> I was talking about "Taktzahlen".
>
what's wrong about using the singular?
>
> Let's see where this leads Google:
>
> Results for: taktzahlen
> #
> Musiksoftware Forum: Taktzahlen bei Sibelius
>
> One for me.
>
is Sibelius the reference now?
> #
> Ulrich Siegele: Taktzahlen als Ordnungsfaktor in Suiten- und ...
>
> Nontechnical, but measure count.
>
yes, we are talking about measures!
> #
> Research centre Beethoven-Archiv
> - [ Translate this page ]
> Sie vermuten ganz richtig, die Taktzahlen stammen nicht von den
> Komponisten, ... Taktzahlen wurden erst sehr spät im 19. Jahrhundert
> eingeführt. ...
>
> Point for me.
>
no - you can't claim Beethoven as a protagonist since obviously he did not
use "Taktzahlen"
>
>
>> in a musical context it often means the number of measures which
>> e.g. build a verse (in german: die (An-) Zahl (der) Takte
>
> Not really "often".
>
often enough - and many meanings have disappeared or have been perverted
because people did not really understand them; if a majority uses a word in
a special meaning this does not mean other meanings are wrong!
>> obviously you can say: "Die Nummer des Taktes wird durch eine Zahl
>> über dem Taktstrich angezeigt" but not "Die Nummer des Taktes wird
>> durch eine Nummer über dem Taktstrich angezeigt".
>
> Uh, you are aware that you are arguing against your own proposal here?
>
not really - here i just state that the number ("Nummer") or the measure is
referenced by a "Zahl" which implies that the "Nummer/Takt" is the higher
context. this also means that the "Takt" or "Taktnummer" has a meaning by
itself whereas the "Zahl" is nothing for itself. if you use the term
"Taktzahl" you are on the "wrong" level, but still many would understand
what is meant.
> I've also seen "Taktziffern" in composition competition rules, but that
> term makes my technical hide crawl, since its translation would be
> "measure digits". "Ziffern" are strictly the letters 0 to 9.
>
"Wie hoch würden Sie den Schaden beziffern?" nobody would limit this to a
letter, in America they would claim for millions!
anyway, thanks for this discussion!
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Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
Matthias Kilian writes: > I'm not an active musician, and only decades ago I did do music with > others (orchestra, choir), so I may be wrong, but I've a strong > feeling towards `Taktnummern'. It's less ambigous. There is no point in us inventing new terms, regardless how unambiguous we consider them to be. Really, look closely at the comparatively few Google hits for "Taktnummern". Even among those few (that are orders of magnitudes less than their equivalent in musical contexts, even discounting the "measure amount" hits), the majority is from the Lilypond lists. The usual question is "Welcher Takt?". And a common reply to "Wir fangen nochmal in Takt 13 an" is "Wir haben hier keine Taktzahlen drin." Never heard "Taktnummern" in that context. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Critical issues
On Wed, 2010-05-12 at 22:14 +0200, Karl Hammar wrote: > Issue 1080: Regression: bar lines in double bar are positioned too > close together > > "pnorcks" mentions commit 27a4d9354effb09c696925881ec4df007da8a0db > as a possible cause. Reverting part of that commit: > gives me the attached grace-start result which resembles the 2.13.17 > result presented in the bug tracker. > > What should we do about it? I'd suggest we check with Marc Hohl to see what the intent of that change was. I suspect that it was an attempt to change how \bar "||" is aligned so that it lines up better with the new segno barline. If I'm right, though, then Marc misunderstood the last parameter to Stencil::add_at_edge, and the correct code would be m.add_at_edge (X_AXIS, LEFT, thin, thinkern / 2); m.add_at_edge (X_AXIS, RIGHT, thin, thinkern); Cheers, Joe ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: imprecise Taktlinie in german doc (NR)
-Eluze writes:
> David Kastrup wrote:
>>
>> -Eluze writes:
>>
>>> yes, but the term Taktzahl is mainly found in technical contexts!
>>
>> I was talking about "Taktzahlen".
>>
> what's wrong about using the singular?
That you'll get many more technical terms rather than musical.
>> Let's see where this leads Google:
>>
>> Results for: taktzahlen
>> #
>> Musiksoftware Forum: Taktzahlen bei Sibelius
>>
>> One for me.
>>
> is Sibelius the reference now?
This is a _forum_, not the official documentation. If you allow only
Lilypond references, you'll only get the previous documentation state.
That's going in circles.
>> #
>> Ulrich Siegele: Taktzahlen als Ordnungsfaktor in Suiten- und ...
>>
>> Nontechnical, but measure count.
>>
> yes, we are talking about measures!
Sigh. That one was a point for _you_, namely measure _count_ rather
than measure _number_. But you argue just as vividly against yourself
than anybody else.
>> #
>> Research centre Beethoven-Archiv
>> - [ Translate this page ]
>> Sie vermuten ganz richtig, die Taktzahlen stammen nicht von den
>> Komponisten, ... Taktzahlen wurden erst sehr spät im 19. Jahrhundert
>> eingeführt. ...
>>
>> Point for me.
>>
> no - you can't claim Beethoven as a protagonist since obviously he did not
> use "Taktzahlen"
So if a Beethoven research center discusses musical terms, this does not
count? And what makes you sure that Beethoven did not use "Taktzahlen"
as a term? Because he was a Frenchman or what?
Sorry, it does not appear like you actually are interested in arguing
for the sake of getting the best documentation quality for Lilypond, but
the worst discussion quality on the list.
>>> in a musical context it often means the number of measures which
>>> e.g. build a verse (in german: die (An-) Zahl (der) Takte
>>
>> Not really "often".
>>
> often enough
For you to invent new terminology and have it disseminated by Lilypond?
> - and many meanings have disappeared or have been perverted because
> people did not really understand them; if a majority uses a word in a
> special meaning this does not mean other meanings are wrong!
It is not Lilypond's documentation's task to invent new terms,
regardless how nice they might be. It is the task to explain Lilypond
in terms the user is familiar with.
>>> obviously you can say: "Die Nummer des Taktes wird durch eine Zahl
>>> über dem Taktstrich angezeigt" but not "Die Nummer des Taktes wird
>>> durch eine Nummer über dem Taktstrich angezeigt".
>>
>> Uh, you are aware that you are arguing against your own proposal
>> here?
>>
> not really - here i just state that the number ("Nummer") or the
> measure is referenced by a "Zahl" which implies that the "Nummer/Takt"
> is the higher context. this also means that the "Takt" or "Taktnummer"
> has a meaning by itself whereas the "Zahl" is nothing for itself. if
> you use the term "Taktzahl" you are on the "wrong" level, but still
> many would understand what is meant.
Your argument does not make enough sense to analyze it. And again, you
try to argue for some inherent superiority of your claim, not for its
common established use. You are missing the point.
>> I've also seen "Taktziffern" in composition competition rules, but
>> that term makes my technical hide crawl, since its translation would
>> be "measure digits". "Ziffern" are strictly the letters 0 to 9.
>>
> "Wie hoch würden Sie den Schaden beziffern?" nobody would limit this
> to a letter, in America they would claim for millions!
"beziffern" means "mit Ziffern versehen", not "mit einer einzelnen
Ziffer versehen".
"Ein Wort buchstabieren" also does not mean that there is just a single
letter for the whole word.
> anyway, thanks for this discussion!
I have a hard time believing that you are serious.
--
David Kastrup
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