Re: tab characters in the source code
Op donderdag 09-04-2009 om 01:04 uur [tijdzone -0300], schreef Han-Wen Nienhuys: > I don't think it is a standard, but I would not mind making it a standard. Yes, I agree we should first make it a standard. It is is very annoying if every project uses its own set of petty deviations. Any takers for sending a patch to emacs-devel? Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
In message , Han-Wen Nienhuys writes On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: As to LY not accepting tabs, thats a shame, tabs should be treated as white space, along with and other now-disused characters from the days of teletypes which sometimes find their way into ascii files from odd unix and dos systems; this is done in the postscript language. Except perhaps in lyrics, where they might well be used to demarcate syllables. LilyPond accepts tabs just fine; they're whitespace. If you want to put tab characters in your LilyPond source you can do so. Programming standards for LilyPond call for avoiding the tab character. We're free to choose whatever programming conventions we want for our source code. I don't think it is a standard, but I would not mind making it a standard. Someone else will know more than me, but I think the linux kernel standards say "here's a pretty-printer definition, any patches should be cleaned up with this first". If we can get a similar definition for lily, the standards can say "use it to clean up your code before submitting, and if you modify code that doesn't comply with the standard, submit your changes and the pretty print as two different patches". That way, the code will tend to a standard, and if other people prefer to work with a different standard they can create their own pretty print definition and they'll just have to work as "pretty-print to my standard, modify, pretty-print to lily's standard, submit". Han-Wen (being trained to avoid tabs during daytime) Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
Op donderdag 09-04-2009 om 09:53 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Anthony W. Youngman: > Someone else will know more than me, but I think the linux kernel > standards What a good idea! But wait, maybe we can start or join join some kind of "linux software group" and use their standards? Only softwares that are also given away for free would be allowed to join. I like animals, can someone think of a funny animal to name this group? How about a zebra? We could then maybe sponsor that group to create a programmer's editor --that would be something that everyone needs? We could make it automatically format the program code so that it adheres to that standard while you type. It could also have a function to reformat existing code, we could call that "indent-region" and bind it to M-C-\ . Then maybe we could even write a script to check all code once in a while, possibly by using that editor too, and call the script scripts/auxiliar/fixcc.py ? > >Han-Wen > >(being trained to avoid tabs during daytime) Or we could just do whatever Han-Wen's current employer happens to prefer. That may be more practical, and easier for Han-Wen too. Greetings, Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 11:27:42AM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > We could then maybe sponsor that group to create a programmer's editor > --that would be something that everyone needs? We could make it > automatically format the program code so that it adheres to that > standard while you type. It could also have a function to reformat > existing code, we could call that "indent-region" and bind it to M-C-\ . See, I was with you until this point. Tying code indentation to a particular editor is... not ideal. > Then maybe we could even write a script to check all code once in > a while, possibly by using that editor too, and call the script > scripts/auxiliar/fixcc.py ? More fodder for the CG! I'll save this email in case nobody else does it. I must say, however, that I'm quite proud that my sarcasm is infecting other lilypond developers. ;) Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
lilypond source on ubuntu
I would like to try my hand and fixing some Lilypond bugs. Is there a beginners trail for this? Also I'd like to see locate the Lilypond source on my Ubuntu computer and understand where some of the commands are defined. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: lilypond source on ubuntu
John Mangual wrote: I would like to try my hand and fixing some Lilypond bugs. Is there a beginners trail for this? Also I'd like to see locate the Lilypond source on my Ubuntu computer and understand where some of the commands are defined. The Contributor's Guide will show you how to get the source code: http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/devel/contrib-guide/index It also has tips for getting started with bug-fixing and doc-patching. Jon -- Jonathan Kulp http://www.jonathankulp.com ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
Op donderdag 09-04-2009 om 20:01 uur [tijdzone +0800], schreef Graham Percival: > See, I was with you until this point. Tying code indentation to a > particular editor is... not ideal. No, but that's why I propose to first start our Zebra group and figure out coding standards. It's about time we got some, no? However, I think it would be stupid if we created a programmer's editor and then *not* have it default to our coding standards? Now how do we prevent that in some far away future, people will have forgotten this and propose to deviate from the Zebra standard? I suggest to prefix all names in our softwares in our to be prefixed with "ZEBRA/". For example: ZEBRA/LilyPond. That will surely work! People are curious by nature. This prefix which will lead them to zebra.org! We could also host our mailing lists at zebra.org, it will be impossible to miss that hint? > I must say, however, that I'm quite proud that my sarcasm is > infecting other lilypond developers. ;) Rest assured, also the source of this sarcasm will be lost in history ;-) Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 03:33:06PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > However, I think it would be stupid if we created a programmer's > editor and then *not* have it default to our coding standards? Oh, certainly. But I think it would *also* be stupid to create a programmer's edit, when vim is already perfect. :P > Now how do we prevent that in some far away future, > people will have forgotten this and propose to deviate from > the Zebra standard? I suggest to prefix all names in our > softwares in our to be prefixed with "ZEBRA/". For example: > ZEBRA/LilyPond. That will surely work! By the way, I *always* prefix LilyPond by an animal name when I introduce it in my published papers. :) > > I must say, however, that I'm quite proud that my sarcasm is > > infecting other lilypond developers. ;) > > Rest assured, also the source of this sarcasm will be lost > in history ;-) Nah; Valentin will keep the legend of the Grumpy Developer alive in times to come. Long after humanity has colonized distant stars, schoolchildren will be reading about the epic flamewars involving Achilles, Trojan Horses, and whether or not we should move all the CUTTLEFISH/LilyPond documentation into a wiki. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
Op donderdag 09-04-2009 om 22:14 uur [tijdzone +0800], schreef Graham Percival: > Oh, certainly. But I think it would *also* be stupid to create a > programmer's edit, when vim is already perfect. :P True. Let's just keep manually formatting everything. I mean, people's tastes differ for a reason. This has the additional advantage that the programmer implementing a piece of code can leave her signature more easily, by using ever so slightly indentation variations. Others will then know to stay away from code sections that they do not 'own', so to say. > By the way, I *always* prefix LilyPond by an animal name when I > introduce it in my published papers. :) Good. Just picking a random animal for now -- until we settle for zebra -- should work. > Nah; Valentin will keep the legend of the Grumpy Developer alive > in times to come. Long after humanity has colonized distant > stars, schoolchildren will be reading about the epic flamewars > involving Achilles, Trojan Horses, and whether or not we should > move all the CUTTLEFISH/LilyPond documentation into a wiki. Brilliant! Let's define the MOOSE/coding standards in an Opera! Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond - The music typesetter http://www.xs4all.nl/~jantien | http://www.lilypond.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Graham Percival wrote: > Nah; Valentin will keep the legend of the Grumpy Developer alive > in times to come. Long after humanity has colonized distant > stars, schoolchildren will be reading about the epic flamewars > involving Achilles, Trojan Horses, and whether or not we should > move all the CUTTLEFISH/LilyPond documentation into a wiki. FROG/LilyPond ? -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 04:27:45PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > Op donderdag 09-04-2009 om 22:14 uur [tijdzone +0800], schreef Graham > Percival: > > > Oh, certainly. But I think it would *also* be stupid to create a > > programmer's edit, when vim is already perfect. :P > > True. Let's just keep manually formatting everything. I mean, > people's tastes differ for a reason. Yeah. It's not like there's any easy-to-learn languages that are ideal for text editing. Imagine having a perl/ directory in the lilypond source code! Oh, the catmanity! > This has the additional advantage that the programmer implementing a > piece of code can leave her signature more easily, by using ever so > slightly indentation variations. Others will then know to stay away > from code sections that they do not 'own', so to say. Oh sweet $DIETY yes. I /hate/ it when people fix bugs in my code. It's like, guys, I'm perfect, duh! Like, I added those "bugs" for a reason! > > By the way, I *always* prefix LilyPond by an animal name when I > > introduce it in my published papers. :) > > Good. Just picking a random animal for now -- until we settle for > zebra -- should work. Why limit it to animals? Venus flytraps are moving, and have a lifecycle. I can see it now: CARBON-BASED LIFEFORM WITH A RELATIVELY SHORT LIFESPAN ON THE COSMIC SCALE/LilyPond. wow. I should make an indie band with that title. If one doesn't already exist. :) > > Nah; Valentin will keep the legend of the Grumpy Developer alive > > in times to come. Long after humanity has colonized distant > > stars, schoolchildren will be reading about the epic flamewars > > involving Achilles, Trojan Horses, and whether or not we should > > move all the CUTTLEFISH/LilyPond documentation into a wiki. > > Brilliant! Let's define the MOOSE/coding standards in an Opera! I'm leaning towards explaining about BLOWFISH/coding in a ballad. Maybe a power ballad, with lots of fifths. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009, Graham Percival said: > I can see it now: CARBON-BASED LIFEFORM WITH A RELATIVELY SHORT > LIFESPAN ON THE COSMIC SCALE/LilyPond. Apple deprecated Carbon development some years back. My vote is BBEdit. Lots of programming editors offer syntax coloration and formatting for a surprising variety of languages. Maybe what is needed is a survey and recomendations? Mac programmers will have certain choices, in my case its the ancient Codewarrior IDE, MPW, BBEdit, and Xcode 2.5. Might well be others. Windoze developers have several more to pick from, CodeWarrior and XCode included as both will do x-platform development. I suppose unixland has emacs, "pity the fools" -- Dana Emery ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009, Jan Nieuwenhuizen said: > No, but that's why I propose to first start our Zebra group and > figure out coding standards. It's about time we got some, no? coding standards, yes. But as to animals, we probably should contact O'Reilly publicatinos and ask to be assigned one, pretty sure zebras been assigned, ana I think frogs have been taken tho. AHA, we could consider beasts as drawn on old maps, whales, dolphins, lots of hoary depictions to choose from there, and all old enough to be PD. -- Dana Emery ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 03:28:29PM -, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > > AHA, we could consider beasts as drawn on old maps, whales, dolphins, lots > of hoary depictions to choose from there, and all old enough to be PD. DRAGON/LilyPond !!oneone! "Here be engravers" "Meddle not in the affairs of typesetters, for thou art crunchy and tasty with ketchup" "The year of the Rabbit is followed by the year of the sheet music" Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
Le 7 avr. 09 à 23:28, Carl D. Sorensen a écrit : LilyPond programming standards call for no tabs in the files. Wrong. All source files are "C-x h M-x tabify"ed. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
2009/4/9 Graham Percival : > On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 03:33:06PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: >> Now how do we prevent that in some far away future, >> people will have forgotten this and propose to deviate from >> the Zebra standard? I suggest to prefix all names in our >> softwares in our to be prefixed with "ZEBRA/". For example: >> ZEBRA/LilyPond. That will surely work! > > By the way, I *always* prefix LilyPond by an animal name when I > introduce it in my published papers. :) By the way, strictly speaking, the slash character is not appropriate. Correct syntax is with a whitespace: $ANIMAL_NAME $ProjectName If there was a bearded wise guru in your ZEBRA group, I'm sure he'd be quite touchy about punctuation :) > Nah; Valentin will keep the legend of the Grumpy Developer alive > in times to come. So now you're a developer? 2009/4/9 Jan Nieuwenhuizen : > Brilliant! Let's define the MOOSE/coding standards in an Opera! Awesome. I'm precisely in search of a new libretto... And Graham chickened out when I offered him to write something with me :-) BTW -- now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not sure I'd like to know what kind of music he's referring to as "power ballad". Cheers, Valentin ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
On 9 Apr 2009, at 06:04, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: Programming standards for LilyPond call for avoiding the tab character. We're free to choose whatever programming conventions we want for our source code. I don't think it is a standard, but I would not mind making it a standard. Some years ago I suggested on some Bison that use two spaces instead of tabs. - The common Unix convention of 8 spaces per tab provides far to much indentation. I think perhaps it is used in GNU projects. Han-Wen (being trained to avoid tabs during daytime) It is easier to use an editor that translates tabs into (say) 2 spaces. It is good to have a "translate tabs into spaces" feature run over files. (The worst thing I have encountered was the convention of mixing four spaces indentations with tabs-equal to 8 spaces, plus a program that failed the whole project if one typed it wrong - at the University here in Stockholm!) Hans ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: tab characters in the source code
In message <20090409143812.ga4...@nagi>, Graham Percival writes Oh sweet $DIETY yes. I /hate/ it when people fix bugs in my code. It's like, guys, I'm perfect, duh! Like, I added those "bugs" for a reason! Is that like abstaining from $CHOCOLATE? Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
