Re: [PATCH] Docs: IR: Move 'details to user grob property list
2009/4/3 Patrick McCarty : > Can someone apply? I feel uncomfortable while ignoring these kind of messages just because I could apply it as I have git access, but I am not a developer but a translator. If it is really of any help, I could apply it after a LGTM from a developer. If not, I could simply keep ignoring them. OTOH you could well, as a person able to make clever patches, ask for git access for yourself. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
Ow! Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know :-) 1.64 concert pitch The pitch at which the piano and other non-transposing instruments play, such music is said to be 'in C'. Officially, it is defined as "A = 440", meaning that the note A in the treble clef indicates a sound that has a frequency of 440Hz. There are other standard frequencies, but they have mostly fallen into disuse. This convention is used for (almost?) all instruments with multiple sounding parts, eg tuned percussion and strings. Instruments with a single sounding part (woodwind, brass) follow a different convention and are generally known as transposing instruments, although for some instruments (eg flute, oboe), the two conventions lead to the same result. The trombone is unusual in that music for it can be written using either or both conventions. 1.311 transposing instrument Instruments whose notated pitch is different from concert pitch. Most of these instruments are identified in their name by their fundamental pitch - this being the note whose wavelength is equal to length of the instrument. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) This note is always written as middle C in the treble clef, and is usually referred to as "being in 'X'" where X is the fundamental of the instrument it's written for. It is normal, however, to leave the "in X" off of the music as being redundant because it's already been specified in the instrument's name. So music marked as "A Clarinet" or "Bb Trumpet" will be assumed to be in A or Bf. Where an instrument's range falls naturally within the treble clef, the reference to the instrument should always either specify the fundamental as part of the instrument name, or specify the transposition, so the player knows what pitch the music is written in - "alto flute in G", "G flute", "alto flute in C". If the music is written in C it is normal convention NOT to mention the fundamental, and only say "in C" if it is needed to prevent confusion. - - If anybody can improve on those entries I'm all ears, otherwise can somebody update the glossary? For the most part, I've just been far more pedantic, but the existing bit about the trombone is, I'm sorry, just plain wrong! Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
Am 03.04.2009 um 19:20 schrieb Anthony W. Youngman: Ow! Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know :-) 1.64 concert pitch The pitch at which the piano and other non-transposing instruments play, such music is said to be 'in C'. Officially, it is defined as "A = 440", meaning that the note A in the treble clef indicates a sound that has a frequency of 440Hz. There are other standard frequencies, but they have mostly fallen into disuse. This convention is used for (almost?) all instruments with multiple sounding parts, eg tuned percussion and strings. Instruments with a single sounding part (woodwind, brass) follow a different convention and are generally known as transposing instruments, although for some instruments (eg flute, oboe), the two conventions lead to the same result. The trombone is unusual in that music for it can be written using either or both conventions. 1.311 transposing instrument Instruments whose notated pitch is different from concert pitch. Most of these instruments are identified in their name by their fundamental pitch - this being the note whose wavelength is equal to length of the instrument. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) This note is always written as middle C in the treble clef, and is usually referred to as "being in 'X'" where X is the fundamental of the instrument it's written for. It is normal, however, to leave the "in X" off of the music as being redundant because it's already been specified in the instrument's name. So music marked as "A Clarinet" or "Bb Trumpet" will be assumed to be in A or Bf. Where an instrument's range falls naturally within the treble clef, the reference to the instrument should always either specify the fundamental as part of the instrument name, or specify the transposition, so the player knows what pitch the music is written in - "alto flute in G", "G flute", "alto flute in C". If the music is written in C it is normal convention NOT to mention the fundamental, and only say "in C" if it is needed to prevent confusion. -- --- - If anybody can improve on those entries I'm all ears, otherwise can somebody update the glossary? For the most part, I've just been far more pedantic, but the existing bit about the trombone is, I'm sorry, just plain wrong! Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel Not to channel graham, but you would probably be a good candidate for re-writing it. If only from a trombonist's point of view. James E. Bailey ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009, "Anthony W. Youngman" said: > Sorry, reading this was painful agreed. > 1.64 concert pitch Ensembles must agree on a temperament and a pitch standard if they are to be tuned agreeably. Equal temperament is usual for the full orchestra with winds, piano, and strings which plays repertoire in a full range of keys. The pitch of the A above middle C is the conventional reference point. A=440 Hz has been the practice for many orchestras over the past several decades, but in recent years some are creeping sharper, even to A=445; on the theory that it is good to have the violins sound brighter, tho it leaves the woodwind section rather challenged, as it is difficult (and expensive) to adjust some winds sharper. Other reference pitches have been used historically, and sometimes different places had variant practices. Many ensembles specializing in music from historical periods will employ other reference pitches, and may also employ non-equal temperaments. > 1.311 transposing instrument Some instruments play in a range which is awkward to transcribe useing the common G and F clefs, too many ledger lines is challanging to read. Octave-transposing clefs provide one solution to this problem. Some instruments are used in different sizes to accomodate play in particular ranges; the playing techniques are often close enough that skill on one carries over to the others, and so some members of the orchestra will play a variety of instruments which differ in size and fundamental pitch. The challenge of reading for each of several instruments is eased when the parts are written transposed. As an example, the Soprano C clarinet is the reference for the family. Music for it is written a sounding pitch. Music for the lower-pitched Bb clarinet is written transposed upward by a second, the player reads the same as for a 'C' instrument, it plays a second lower than the written pitch. This practice is a great convenience for the orchestral player, but does make for confusion to anyone ignorant of the practice, perhaps while reading the orchestral score. -- Dana Emery ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] Docs: IR: Move 'details to user grob property list
On 4/2/09 5:31 PM, "Patrick McCarty" wrote: > Hello, > > This patch moves the 'details property from the internal to the user > grob property list. I believe that moving 'details from internal to user won't have the effect we want. I believe that internal properties are set by the grob, rather than being read from the context. So I think that even if the user sets them in the input file, the value will be overwritten during the calculation. > > Occasionally, someone recommends tweaking a subproperty of 'details, > so it is helpful to see the default settings documented in the > Internals Reference. Unfortunately, there are different 'details lists for different grobs, so there's not a generic set of defaults that we can list, if I understand correctly. Thanks, Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] Docs: IR: Move 'details to user grob property list
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: > > On 4/2/09 5:31 PM, "Patrick McCarty" wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> This patch moves the 'details property from the internal to the user >> grob property list. > > I believe that moving 'details from internal to user won't have the effect > we want. I believe that internal properties are set by the grob, rather > than being read from the context. So I think that even if the user sets > them in the input file, the value will be overwritten during the > calculation. It depends on whether the internal property is a *real* internal property (unable to be modified by the user), or if it's documented incorrectly in the Internals Reference. I believe the latter is the case with 'details. >> Occasionally, someone recommends tweaking a subproperty of 'details, >> so it is helpful to see the default settings documented in the >> Internals Reference. > > Unfortunately, there are different 'details lists for different grobs, > so there's not a generic set of defaults that we can list, if I understand > correctly. If 'details is moved to the list of user grob properties, then every grob containing default settings for 'details will have the appropriate values listed in the Internals Reference. After `make web', here are two pages that benefit from this change: http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/Stem.html http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/Slur.html Currently, if someone wants to find the default values for 'details, they have to search through scm/define-grobs.scm. Thanks, Patrick ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] Docs: IR: Move 'details to user grob property list
On 4/3/09 1:43 PM, "Patrick McCarty" wrote: > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: >> >>> >> Unfortunately, there are different 'details lists for different grobs, >> so there's not a generic set of defaults that we can list, if I understand >> correctly. > > If 'details is moved to the list of user grob properties, then every > grob containing default settings for 'details will have the > appropriate values listed in the Internals Reference. After `make > web', here are two pages that benefit from this change: > > http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/Stem.html > http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/Slur.html Cool! I really like how that works! Carl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] Docs: IR: Move 'details to user grob property list
2009/4/3 Carl D. Sorensen : > > > > On 4/3/09 1:43 PM, "Patrick McCarty" wrote: > >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: >>> >>> Unfortunately, there are different 'details lists for different grobs, >>> so there's not a generic set of defaults that we can list, if I understand >>> correctly. >> >> If 'details is moved to the list of user grob properties, then every >> grob containing default settings for 'details will have the >> appropriate values listed in the Internals Reference. After `make >> web', here are two pages that benefit from this change: >> >> http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/Stem.html >> http://uoregon.edu/~pmccarty/texi2html/Slur.html > > Cool! I really like how that works! Gets the thumbs up here, too. :) Now all we need is some way of extending the documentation automatically for nested properties. Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
To add some confusion, some instruments are named by the tuning of their fundamental (B-flat trombone, B-flat french horn), but players commonly read from parts written in different transpositions, for example C (trombone) or F (French Horn) On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 3:30 PM, wrote: > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009, "Anthony W. Youngman" > said: > >> Sorry, reading this was painful > > agreed. > >> 1.64 concert pitch > > Ensembles must agree on a temperament and a pitch standard if they are to > be tuned agreeably. Equal temperament is usual for the full orchestra > with winds, piano, and strings which plays repertoire in a full range of > keys. The pitch of the A above middle C is the conventional reference > point. > > A=440 Hz has been the practice for many orchestras over the past several > decades, but in recent years some are creeping sharper, even to A=445; on > the theory that it is good to have the violins sound brighter, tho it > leaves the woodwind section rather challenged, as it is difficult (and > expensive) to adjust some winds sharper. Other reference pitches have > been used historically, and sometimes different places had variant > practices. Many ensembles specializing in music from historical periods > will employ other reference pitches, and may also employ non-equal > temperaments. > > >> 1.311 transposing instrument > > Some instruments play in a range which is awkward to transcribe useing the > common G and F clefs, too many ledger lines is challanging to read. > Octave-transposing clefs provide one solution to this problem. > > Some instruments are used in different sizes to accomodate play in > particular ranges; the playing techniques are often close enough that > skill on one carries over to the others, and so some members of the > orchestra will play a variety of instruments which differ in size and > fundamental pitch. The challenge of reading for each of several > instruments is eased when the parts are written transposed. As an > example, the Soprano C clarinet is the reference for the family. Music for > it is written a sounding pitch. Music for the lower-pitched Bb clarinet > is written transposed upward by a second, the player reads the same as for > a 'C' instrument, it plays a second lower than the written pitch. This > practice is a great convenience for the orchestral player, but does make > for confusion to anyone ignorant of the practice, perhaps while reading > the orchestral score. > > -- > Dana Emery > > > > > ___ > lilypond-devel mailing list > lilypond-devel@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel > -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: [PATCH] Docs: IR: Move 'details to user grob property list
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Carl D. Sorensen wrote: >> This patch moves the 'details property from the internal to the user >> grob property list. > > I believe that moving 'details from internal to user won't have the effect > we want. I believe that internal properties are set by the grob, rather > than being read from the context. So I think that even if the user sets > them in the input file, the value will be overwritten during the > calculation. This is untrue, and in fact, due to how 'details properties work (nested immutable lists), it is rather inefficient to modify them. -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
In message , dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us writes On Fri, Apr 3, 2009, "Anthony W. Youngman" said: Sorry, reading this was painful agreed. 1.64 concert pitch Ensembles must agree on a temperament and a pitch standard if they are to be tuned agreeably. Equal temperament is usual for the full orchestra with winds, piano, and strings which plays repertoire in a full range of keys. The pitch of the A above middle C is the conventional reference point. A=440 Hz has been the practice for many orchestras over the past several decades, I know Wikipedia is not always a good reference source, but what it says jibes with what I thought I know. Apparently A=440 is not just practice, but is actually DEFINED as being "Concert Pitch". If it's not "A=440", it's not Concert Pitch. If you want to tune to "Diapason Pitch" or "Baroque Pitch" or "Vienna Pitch" or whatever, that's fine, just be clear about what you're doing. but in recent years some are creeping sharper, even to A=445; on the theory that it is good to have the violins sound brighter, tho it leaves the woodwind section rather challenged, as it is difficult (and expensive) to adjust some winds sharper. Other reference pitches have been used historically, and sometimes different places had variant practices. Many ensembles specializing in music from historical periods will employ other reference pitches, and may also employ non-equal temperaments. Again, Wikipedia was quite enlightening on this :-) 1.311 transposing instrument Some instruments play in a range which is awkward to transcribe useing the common G and F clefs, too many ledger lines is challanging to read. Octave-transposing clefs provide one solution to this problem. Some instruments are used in different sizes to accomodate play in particular ranges; the playing techniques are often close enough that skill on one carries over to the others, and so some members of the orchestra will play a variety of instruments which differ in size and fundamental pitch. The challenge of reading for each of several instruments is eased when the parts are written transposed. As an example, the Soprano C clarinet is the reference for the family. Music for it is written a sounding pitch. Music for the lower-pitched Bb clarinet is written transposed upward by a second, the player reads the same as for a 'C' instrument, it plays a second lower than the written pitch. This practice is a great convenience for the orchestral player, but does make for confusion to anyone ignorant of the practice, perhaps while reading the orchestral score. I think that's the WHOLE POINT of transposing instruments. In a brass band, ANY player can be given ANY instrument and (with the exception of the trombone) they will be able to read the music and play the instrument. And I believe exactly the same holds true for woodwind instruments too. (Obviously, if you give a Bb cornet player a double-Eb Bass, he'll have a lot of difficulty actually playing it, but he will know exactly what he's supposed to do with it.) I do feel, though, that adding all this will make the entry a lot more heavyweight than it need be. If you're going to write for brass or woodwind, you need to learn about the instruments and the music glossary isn't the place for that. The glossary shouldn't, however, contain material that is misleadingly vague ... Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
In message , Han-Wen Nienhuys writes To add some confusion, some instruments are named by the tuning of their fundamental (B-flat trombone, B-flat french horn), but players commonly read from parts written in different transpositions, for example C (trombone) or F (French Horn) Hmmm ... Obviously, I know about "Bb Trombone in C", which when stated in full is very clear (and is *never* written in treble clef). But this is conventionally shortened to "Trombone" (no mention of the fundamental or the transposition implies concert pitch). But I've never come across "Bb French Horn in F"! Bear in mind the French Horn is an orchestral instrument and I'm not an orchestral trombone player, but what I understood is *supposed* to happen is that the horn player whips out his Bb tuning slide (or "crook") and swaps it for an F tuning slide. This actually physically changes the fundamental to an F so it now really is an "F French Horn". That's not to say that some players don't bother and play the F part with the instrument still in Bb. Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
In message , Anthony W. Youngman writes Ow! Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know :-) Replying to myself ... Just in case anyone didn't realise (and I certainly didn't make myself clear :-) these are my revised versions that I think should replace the existing entries. Feel free to edit and improve. Cheers, Wol 1.64 concert pitch The pitch at which the piano and other non-transposing instruments play, such music is said to be 'in C'. Officially, it is defined as "A = 440", meaning that the note A in the treble clef indicates a sound that has a frequency of 440Hz. There are other standard frequencies, but they have mostly fallen into disuse. This convention is used for (almost?) all instruments with multiple sounding parts, eg tuned percussion and strings. Instruments with a single sounding part (woodwind, brass) follow a different convention and are generally known as transposing instruments, although for some instruments (eg flute, oboe), the two conventions lead to the same result. The trombone is unusual in that music for it can be written using either or both conventions. 1.311 transposing instrument Instruments whose notated pitch is different from concert pitch. Most of these instruments are identified in their name by their fundamental pitch - this being the note whose wavelength is equal to length of the instrument. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) This note is always written as middle C in the treble clef, and is usually referred to as "being in 'X'" where X is the fundamental of the instrument it's written for. It is normal, however, to leave the "in X" off of the music as being redundant because it's already been specified in the instrument's name. So music marked as "A Clarinet" or "Bb Trumpet" will be assumed to be in A or Bf. Where an instrument's range falls naturally within the treble clef, the reference to the instrument should always either specify the fundamental as part of the instrument name, or specify the transposition, so the player knows what pitch the music is written in - "alto flute in G", "G flute", "alto flute in C". If the music is written in C it is normal convention NOT to mention the fundamental, and only say "in C" if it is needed to prevent confusion. - - If anybody can improve on those entries I'm all ears, otherwise can somebody update the glossary? For the most part, I've just been far more pedantic, but the existing bit about the trombone is, I'm sorry, just plain wrong! Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
On Fri, Apr 03, 2009 at 10:43:24PM +0100, Anthony W. Youngman wrote: > > (Obviously, if you give a Bb cornet player a double-Eb Bass, he'll have > a lot of difficulty actually playing it... Speak for yourself... ;-) -- Cameron Horsburgh Blog: http://spiritcry.wordpress.com/ ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:49 PM, lilypond-devel-requ...@gnu.org wrote: But I've never come across "Bb French Horn in F"! Bear in mind the French Horn is an orchestral instrument and I'm not an orchestral trombone player, but what I understood is *supposed* to happen is that the horn player whips out his Bb tuning slide (or "crook") and swaps it for an F tuning slide. This actually physically changes the fundamental to an F so it now really is an "F French Horn". That's not to say that some players don't bother and play the F part with the instrument still in Bb. Most modern horns are double (Holton) horns, which are effectively 2 horns in one: a Bb and an F horn, to make playing easier. Which horn a player uses to play a given pitch doesn't really matter. Some play single horns, some play double. Some play triple horns, with yet another valve to change the fundamental. Slides (or crooks) generally aren't swapped on modern instruments. But I think this is getting far afield of Lilypond concerns. Yours, Aaron = ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
Mostly correct, except that Holton is a brand. There are many double horns that are not Holtons. On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Aaron Andrew Hunt wrote: > On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:49 PM, lilypond-devel-requ...@gnu.org wrote: >> >> But I've never come across "Bb French Horn in F"! Bear in mind the >> French Horn is an orchestral instrument and I'm not an orchestral >> trombone player, but what I understood is *supposed* to happen is that >> the horn player whips out his Bb tuning slide (or "crook") and swaps it >> for an F tuning slide. This actually physically changes the fundamental >> to an F so it now really is an "F French Horn". That's not to say that >> some players don't bother and play the F part with the instrument still >> in Bb. > > Most modern horns are double (Holton) horns, which are > effectively 2 horns in one: a Bb and an F horn, to make playing > easier. Which horn a player uses to play a given pitch doesn't > really matter. Some play single horns, some play double. Some > play triple horns, with yet another valve to change the fundamental. > Slides (or crooks) generally aren't swapped on modern instruments. > But I think this is getting far afield of Lilypond concerns. > > Yours, > Aaron > = > > > ___ > lilypond-devel mailing list > lilypond-devel@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel > -- Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
2009/4/3 Anthony W. Youngman : > In message , Anthony W. Youngman > writes >> >> Ow! >> >> Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know >> :-) > > Replying to myself ... Just in case anyone didn't realise (and I certainly > didn't make myself clear :-) these are my revised versions that I think > should replace the existing entries. Feel free to edit and improve. >> For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, >> therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length >> of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) Concert A is definitely not the fundamental for an A clarinet: it's a cylindrical tube stopped at one end, so the wavelength of the fundamental is four times the length. Since the lowest note on a clarinet is usually the E below middle C unless it has an extension, the fundamental would be C sharp (D on a B flat). Concert A would be either the first (B flat clarinet) or second (A clarinet) overblown note, i.e., third harmonic of E or F. Regards, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
[PATCH] Fix #743: Warning message for unterminated dynamics
Hi, Please review the following patch, which reinstates the warning for unterminated (de)crescendi in New_dynamic_engraver. http://codereview.appspot.com/33055 Cheers, Neil ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
In message <49d68906.5000...@ultrasw.com>, Paul Scott writes 1.311 transposing instrument Instruments whose notated pitch is different from concert pitch. Most of these instruments are identified in their name by their fundamental pitch - this being the note whose wavelength is equal to length of the instrument. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) We could probably get to the truth from here but this is not correct as stated. My A clarinet is not 78cm long. It is significantly shorter. I don't know if this is more accurate for a brass instrument. It could be. I guess you would be talking about a trombone in 1st position or a valved instrument with the valves not depressed. For an A clarinet a low C (sounding concert A 220Hz) you would be fingering a note which only used about 1/2 the length of the instrument. For a C above that (sounding A 440Hz.) you would be using most of the length of the instrument but this is the 2nd harmonic of a cylindrical bore which is probably not a reasonable place to apply your description. It would be nice to have a "simple but accurate" description of the fundamental of a woodwind instrument. I've obviously made a mistake in thinking it's similar to a brass instrument. My trombone is about 11ft mouthpiece-to-bell and the fundamental is Bb next to A=110, so that makes sense - 11ft ~ 4x78cm. Is there any chance you could give me that description? This note is always written as middle C in the treble clef, and is usually referred to as "being in 'X'" where X is the fundamental of the instrument it's written for. As mentioned above this not the fundamental for a woodwind even if it is for a brass instrument. The most common fingering for a woodwind is the six finger note which is D (in the upper register for clarinets or G for a bassoon). From there we get to a C by either adding one finger or by removing most of the fingers. Neither using either the tube with no fingers down or all fingers down is really equivalent to a brass instrument for the purposes of this discussion. From one point of view you would call a bassoon an F instrument, a normal clarinet (Bf) an Eb instrument (equivalent to an F recorder). I'd love to have the description completely accurate. I'll alter my bit to say "for a brass instrument the fundamental is etc etc etc". Seeing as you understand woodwind, would you do the same for the woodwind side? Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
In message <7ca3d5a30904031519ya3b89hb87cf8f81a544...@mail.gmail.com>, Neil Puttock writes 2009/4/3 Anthony W. Youngman : In message , Anthony W. Youngman writes Ow! Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know :-) Replying to myself ... Just in case anyone didn't realise (and I certainly didn't make myself clear :-) these are my revised versions that I think should replace the existing entries. Feel free to edit and improve. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) Concert A is definitely not the fundamental for an A clarinet: it's a cylindrical tube stopped at one end, so the wavelength of the fundamental is four times the length. Since the lowest note on a clarinet is usually the E below middle C unless it has an extension, the fundamental would be C sharp (D on a B flat). Ummm ... I think I might be getting physics fundamentals confused with musical fundamentals. But I'm COMPLETELY puzzled at your statement that the wavelength of the fundamental is FOUR times the length. I would guess the trombone is also "a cylindrical tube stopped at one end", and the wavelength of any note played must be an integral number of half-wavelengths. So we have 1/2-wavelength giving me a pedal Bb, 2/2 giving me the fundamental Bb, and 3/2 giving me an F. I don't see how the physics would work to give you a quarter-wavelength as you claim. Concert A would be either the first (B flat clarinet) or second (A clarinet) overblown note, i.e., third harmonic of E or F. Mmmm... I think that explains a lot. Most notes played by brass instruments are "overblown" in the wind sense - do most wind instruments mostly not overblow? Regards, Neil Cheers, Wol (NB - it's my bedtime, apologies if I don't reply again to anything for a while :-) -- Anthony W. Youngman - anth...@thewolery.demon.co.uk ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
Anthony W. Youngman wrote: Ow! Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know :-) 1.64 concert pitch The pitch at which the piano and other non-transposing instruments play, such music is said to be 'in C'. Officially, it is defined as "A = 440", meaning that the note A in the treble clef indicates a sound that has a frequency of 440Hz. There are other standard frequencies, but they have mostly fallen into disuse. This convention is used for (almost?) all instruments with multiple sounding parts, eg tuned percussion and strings. Instruments with a single sounding part (woodwind, brass) follow a different convention and are generally known as transposing instruments, although for some instruments (eg flute, oboe), the two conventions lead to the same result. The trombone is unusual in that music for it can be written using either or both conventions. 1.311 transposing instrument Instruments whose notated pitch is different from concert pitch. Most of these instruments are identified in their name by their fundamental pitch - this being the note whose wavelength is equal to length of the instrument. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) We could probably get to the truth from here but this is not correct as stated. My A clarinet is not 78cm long. It is significantly shorter. I don't know if this is more accurate for a brass instrument. It could be. I guess you would be talking about a trombone in 1st position or a valved instrument with the valves not depressed. For an A clarinet a low C (sounding concert A 220Hz) you would be fingering a note which only used about 1/2 the length of the instrument. For a C above that (sounding A 440Hz.) you would be using most of the length of the instrument but this is the 2nd harmonic of a cylindrical bore which is probably not a reasonable place to apply your description. This note is always written as middle C in the treble clef, and is usually referred to as "being in 'X'" where X is the fundamental of the instrument it's written for. As mentioned above this not the fundamental for a woodwind even if it is for a brass instrument. The most common fingering for a woodwind is the six finger note which is D (in the upper register for clarinets or G for a bassoon). From there we get to a C by either adding one finger or by removing most of the fingers. Neither using either the tube with no fingers down or all fingers down is really equivalent to a brass instrument for the purposes of this discussion. From one point of view you would call a bassoon an F instrument, a normal clarinet (Bf) an Eb instrument (equivalent to an F recorder). Paul Scott ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:49 PM, lilypond-devel-requ...@gnu.org wrote: Mostly correct, except that Holton is a brand. There are many double horns that are not Holtons. You're right! I took private horn lessons almost 20 years ago, playing a school instrument which was a Holton. My teacher explained the deal about double and triple horns. Somehow in my head I made Holton synonymous with double horn. Nice to have that crossed wire fixed. Thanks, A ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Music Glossary - 1.64 Concert Pitch (2.12.2)
On Apr 3, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Anthony W. Youngman wrote: In message <7ca3d5a30904031519ya3b89hb87cf8f81a544...@mail.gmail.com>, Neil Puttock writes 2009/4/3 Anthony W. Youngman : In message , Anthony W. Youngman writes Ow! Sorry, reading this was painful (I play the trombone, as many of you know :-) Replying to myself ... Just in case anyone didn't realise (and I certainly didn't make myself clear :-) these are my revised versions that I think should replace the existing entries. Feel free to edit and improve. For example Concert A is 440Hz, the speed of sound in air is 343m/s, therefore an A clarinet (or any other A wind instrument) will have a length of 343/440 = 78cm. (Or be a power of 2 longer or shorter.) Concert A is definitely not the fundamental for an A clarinet: it's a cylindrical tube stopped at one end, so the wavelength of the fundamental is four times the length. Since the lowest note on a clarinet is usually the E below middle C unless it has an extension, the fundamental would be C sharp (D on a B flat). Ummm ... I think I might be getting physics fundamentals confused with musical fundamentals. But I'm COMPLETELY puzzled at your statement that the wavelength of the fundamental is FOUR times the length. I would guess the trombone is also "a cylindrical tube stopped at one end", and the wavelength of any note played must be an integral number of half-wavelengths. So we have 1/2-wavelength giving me a pedal Bb, 2/2 giving me the fundamental Bb, and 3/2 giving me an F. I don't see how the physics would work to give you a quarter- wavelength as you claim. I just did some quick online research and he is right. A tube closed on one end like a clarinet or trumpet has a wavelength that is four times the length of the tube. A flute is open on both ends so it has a wavelength of double the length of the tube. Concert A would be either the first (B flat clarinet) or second (A clarinet) overblown note, i.e., third harmonic of E or F. Mmmm... I think that explains a lot. Most notes played by brass instruments are "overblown" in the wind sense - do most wind instruments mostly not overblow? Sure! anything above the first octave of a conical instrument (flute, saxophone) or the first 12th of a cylindrical bore instrument (clarinet) is overblown or uses a vent key to give the same effect. Paul ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
