Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description

[Krunoslav Šebetić]

On 07/20/2013 06:31 PM, Mirosław Zalewski wrote:
Personally, I favor precise and hermetic language. People who need 
certain information will understand; people who don't, they don't care.


That's elitism and is wrong, really wrong.

Precision doesn't mean it has to be hermetic. People how know, don't 
need help. Don't you find contradictory to write _help_ in hermetic 
language? I'm not Calc user, but sometimes I do use it - and help witch 
doesn't help is worthless.


Bunch of (techno)babble is hard to translete (even impossible 
sometimes), and hermetic _help_ can't really help user who is not 
skilled in English. If you have something which is hard to translate and 
understand in original is something which no one can benefit from.


I know you didn't meant anything wrong, it's just a concern from part 
time Calc user.


Sincerely,

Krunoslav

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I have encouraged a few native-English speakers to join this list with the aim 
of 
1.  translating from geek or 
2.  smoothing out clunky English phrases that look like translations from other 
languages

However, since they joined there have been no further requests for individual 
strings to be re-done in English.  We had 'loads' of emails for a month or 2 
but then suddenly nothing.  Is there somewhere we could look through all the 
strings that get translated?  

Sadly i didn't manage to get many people to join this time and those that did 
do not have a high level of technical skill with the sorts of systems you find 
easy.  I was hoping that more of the confusing strings would appear in the 
mailing list and that the technical side would be handled by the rest of you.  
Still, point us in the right direction and be gentle with us and then we/they 
might be able to help.  

Btw i wasn't clear what was meant by "hermetic" so i looked it up  (even though 
context made it clear what the person meant by it) and got this from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic
No language is truly hermetic.  Even pure maths can be ambiguous.  It's part of 
the reason we need programming languages and things such as wiki-mark-up to 
communicate with machines.  However, even they have moments of confusion or 
imprecision.  We all just try to do a reasonably good job,  in the time 
available, to make it easier for normal humans to read and we hope that the 
people following after us are able to improve on it if they need to.  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Krunoslav Šebetić 
>To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 9:26
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description
> 
>
>On 07/20/2013 06:31 PM, Mirosław Zalewski wrote:
>> Personally, I favour precise and hermetic language. People who need 
>> certain information will understand; people who don't, they don't care.
>
>That's elitism and is wrong, really wrong.
>
>Precision doesn't mean it has to be hermetic. "People who know how, don't 
>need help". Don't you find contradictory to write _help_ in hermetic 
>language? I'm not Calc user, but sometimes I do use it - and help which 
>doesn't help is worthless.
>
>Bunch of (techno)babble is hard to translate (even impossible 
>sometimes), and hermetic _help_ can't really help user who is not 
>skilled in English. If you have something which is hard to translate and 
>understand in original is something which no one can benefit from.
>
>I know you didn't meant anything wrong, it's just a concern from part 
>time Calc user.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Krunoslav
>
>
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
For the non-geeks, stripping out the coding gives us 

Insert mode is enabled. 
The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.

Insert mode is enabled. When in Writer
The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.

The overwrite mode is enabled. 
The text cursor is a blinking block. 
Click on the area to enable insert mode.

The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
Wrtiter The text cursor is a blinking block. 
Click on the area to enable insert mode.


I think even after correcting 'obvious' typos the paragraphs are still unclear. 
 What is "the area" that it is saying needs to be clicked on?  Why not just 
press the "insert" key on the keyboard?  A couple of the paragraphs specify 
Writer but surely the same thing happens in the other apps/modules?  

Perhaps a better generic paragraph would be something like;

When using insert mode 
the text-cursor is a blinking block, █ . 
Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.

When using overwrite mode
the text-cursor is a blinking vertical line, | . 
Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.


Errr, i couldn't find a decent block but the vertical line is on the keyboard, 
either around the Enter key or off to the far left besides the shift key.  
Regards from 
Tom :)  



>
> From: Sérgio Marques 
>To: Libreoffice Translation List  
>Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 1:44
>Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
> 
>
>Insert mode is enabled. select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
>Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>
>In help page wiki:
>
>Insert mode is enabled. When in Writerselect="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
>Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>
>
>The overwrite mode is enabled. select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
>Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>
>In help page wiki:
>
>The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
>Wrtiterselect="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
>Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>-- 
>Sérgio Marques
>
>

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Sorry i am not completely clear about 2 crucial things
1.  What is the string as is?  
2.  What is the suggested alternative?

I couldn't find the Oasis definitions and i loathe looking through MS Office 
anything.  The link given seems to be specifically about healthcare but may not 
have been written by someone that really knows what they are talking about.  I 
tried looking for something more generic and found this hopelessly detailed 
page in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuarial_science
also this unclear (and also long-winded) definition
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/actuarial-valuation.asp
and this one
http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/actuarial-value/

Would it be safer to just rewrite the equation it uses but rewrite in English?  
(probably not but sometimes it helps)  
Regards from
Tom :)  







>
> From: Sérgio Marques 
>To: Mihovil Stanic  
>Cc: LibreOffice-l10n  
>Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 1:31
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description
> 
>
>Actuarial value is mostly used in finance and insurance.
>
>Actuarial value is a measure of the percentage of expected health care
>costs a specific health plan will cover for the "standard" population.
>Actuarial value is generally calculated using the ratio of:
>
>*the total expected payments by the plan for essential health benefits*
>*__ *
>
>*the total expected costs of the "standard" population for essential health
>benefits *
>
>It´s the discipline that uses statistics and math in the way to determine
>risk and income (cash flow) and try to establish the present value of
>future cash flows. In a way it´s similar to TIR.
>
>http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid/252609/What-is-Actuarial-Value-AV
>
>Regards
>
>2013/7/20 Mihovil Stanic 
>
>> https://translations.**documentfoundation.org/hr/**libo_ui/sc/source/ui/**
>> translate.html#unit=29744374
>> Currect desc: Returns the actuarial rate of interest of an investment
>> excluding costs or profits.
>> Oasis desc = MS Office desc: Compute the internal rate of return for a
>> series of cash flows.
>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/**office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-**
>> v1.2-os-part2.html#IRR
>>
>> I for one studied economics and had a hard time finding out what actuarial
>> means... As far as I understood it it's math based on statistics and
>> probabilities.
>> That can be in some way applied to this formula, but it's
>> t complicated description. Why can't it be just
>> like it's in Oasis and MS Office?
>>
>
>I also think that string should be as ODFF states. My translation states
>that way. I must say that many of descriptions were changed in my
>translations.
>
>Regards
>-- 
>Sérgio Marques
>
>
>
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description

[Sérgio Marques]

2013/7/21 Tom Davies 

> Hi :)
> Sorry i am not completely clear about 2 crucial things
> 1.  What is the string as is?
>

Returns the actuarial rate of interest of an investment excluding costs or
profits


> 2.  What is the suggested alternative?
>

Compute the internal rate of return for a series of cash flows

Stated by ODFF.




>
> I couldn't find the Oasis definitions and i loathe looking through MS
> Office anything.  The link given seems to be specifically about healthcare
> but may not have been written by someone that really knows what they are
> talking about.  I tried looking for something more generic and found this
> hopelessly detailed page in wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuarial_science
> also this unclear (and also long-winded) definition
> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/actuarial-valuation.asp
> and this one
> http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/actuarial-value/
>
> Would it be safer to just rewrite the equation it uses but rewrite in
> English?  (probably not but sometimes it helps)
> Regards from
> Tom :)



-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description

[Mirosław Zalewski]

On 21/07/2013 at 10:26, Krunoslav Šebetić  wrote:

> Precision doesn't mean it has to be hermetic. People how know, don't
> need help. Don't you find contradictory to write _help_ in hermetic
> language?

Yes, no and no.

First thing: by "hermetic" I mean "understood by people with some preliminary 
knowledge about certain subject".

Precise language does not have to be hermetic, agreed. But being hermetic is 
often the most efficient way to precisely communicate what you mean. Moreover, 
it is generally safe to use, because it is highly unlikely that someone 
without presumed knowledge will even look there.

Example. When you write statistical software, you don't explain in help what 
"median" is, or how "chi-square test" is computed and how it could be used. 
You expect your users to know that. The reason is simple: someone without that 
knowledge wouldn't even bother to install statistical package.

It is the same case with SYD function. It is fine that it's description is not 
understood by general audience, because general audience has no knowledge 
about investments. In turn, general audience has no use of this function. Any 
effort put into lowering entry barrier of usage of this function (e.g. by 
explaining what "amount of depreciation" is) would be wasted anyway.

It all boils down to defining your target audience and purpose of help.

I, for one, think that "help" is supposed to help you in using this particular 
implementation, not teach you general concept.

People who do understand general concept still need help. Let's take QUARTILE 
function as example. If you know what quartile is, you still need help to tell 
you what arguments can be passed to function, in what order and what are 
acceptable values of them.

In fact, this is a way that most of Calc help has been written. Take a look at 
ACOS help description. It will be useless if you don't know what 
trigonometric, cosine and radians are.
But then, what possible use could you make of ACOS function if you don't know 
what trigonometric is?

This is by no way "elitism". There are bunch of sources that can teach you 
about general concept, like Wikipedia, online courses, schools, universities, 
bookstores and libraries. There is no need for Calc help to duplicate that 
effort.

To sum up:
- Being hermetic is fine.
- Help for particular function should be understood by people who need it. We 
can safely assume they do have some preliminary knowledge.
- If help is not understood by specialists, then there is a problem.

I'm fine with anyone taking different course and making Calc help a teaching 
resource. But that persone should prepare for a awful lot of work.
-- 
Best regards
Mirosław Zalewski

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description

[Yury Tarasievich]

But what about providing some clues in the help 
for those who know what they want but are 
unacquainted with the developing system in the 
first place? Your approach leaves too high entry 
threshold.


Continuing with the Calc functions, I might know 
what statistical distributions are but to find 
the concrete function I'd still turn to the 
search function, to which I'll feed a set of 
plain English words which I would expect to be 
in description.


-Yury

On 07/21/2013 03:17 PM, Mirosław Zalewski wrote:

On 21/07/2013 at 10:26, Krunoslav Šebetić  wrote:


Precision doesn't mean it has to be hermetic. People how know, don't
need help. Don't you find contradictory to write _help_ in hermetic
language?


Yes, no and no.

First thing: by "hermetic" I mean "understood by people with some preliminary
knowledge about certain subject".

Precise language does not have to be hermetic, agreed. But being hermetic is
often the most efficient way to precisely communicate what you mean. Moreover,
it is generally safe to use, because it is highly unlikely that someone
without presumed knowledge will even look there.

...

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks :)  I think 

Computes the internal rate of return for a series of cash flows

is a minor improvement on the 2nd one.  Neither make any sense to me but some 
background reading about the topic made it clear i would never understand 
enough to get a short simple sentence.  The 2nd one suggests that the function 
can handle a number of inputs and then generate a single output value.  The 
first suggests that you have got to put in several different parameters  in 
order to get a single output value.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Sérgio Marques 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: Mihovil Stanic ; LibreOffice-l10n 
> 
>Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 12:58
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description
> 
>
>2013/7/21 Tom Davies 
>
>> Hi :)
>> Sorry i am not completely clear about 2 crucial things
>> 1.  What is the string as is?
>>
>
>Returns the actuarial rate of interest of an investment excluding costs or
>profits
>
>
>> 2.  What is the suggested alternative?
>>
>
>Compute the internal rate of return for a series of cash flows
>
>Stated by ODFF.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I couldn't find the Oasis definitions and i loathe looking through MS
>> Office anything.  The link given seems to be specifically about healthcare
>> but may not have been written by someone that really knows what they are
>> talking about.  I tried looking for something more generic and found this
>> hopelessly detailed page in wikipedia
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuarial_science
>> also this unclear (and also long-winded) definition
>> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/actuarial-valuation.asp
>> and this one
>> http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/actuarial-value/
>>
>> Would it be safer to just rewrite the equation it uses but rewrite in
>> English?  (probably not but sometimes it helps)
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>
>
>
>-- 
>Sérgio Marques
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description

[Mihovil Stanic]

Well, I gave you few. :)
To find more I would have to proof read all calc formulas and I'm not 
really sure I want to do that.


I see a lot of errors of cosmetical type in Calc, which I'm 
notreporting. Things like consistency.In some formulas you have nper/ 
npery / NPER / NPERY , some strings start with capital letter others 
don't. Some strings end with dot, others don't. I'm not reporting that 
since it isn't affectingfunctionality of program and I would spam this 
list all day long. :)


Maybe someone can tackle that in his free time if he things it's worth 
fixing, but except cosmetical value nothing will be gained.



Dana 21.7.2013. 12:08, Tom Davies je napisao:

Hi :)
I have encouraged a few native-English speakers to join this list with the aim 
of
1.  translating from geek or
2.  smoothing out clunky English phrases that look like translations from other 
languages

However, since they joined there have been no further requests for individual 
strings to be re-done in English.  We had 'loads' of emails for a month or 2 
but then suddenly nothing.  Is there somewhere we could look through all the 
strings that get translated?

Sadly i didn't manage to get many people to join this time and those that did 
do not have a high level of technical skill with the sorts of systems you find 
easy.  I was hoping that more of the confusing strings would appear in the 
mailing list and that the technical side would be handled by the rest of you.  
Still, point us in the right direction and be gentle with us and then we/they 
might be able to help.

Btw i wasn't clear what was meant by "hermetic" so i looked it up  (even though 
context made it clear what the person meant by it) and got this from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic
No language is truly hermetic.  Even pure maths can be ambiguous.  It's part of 
the reason we need programming languages and things such as wiki-mark-up to 
communicate with machines.  However, even they have moments of confusion or 
imprecision.  We all just try to do a reasonably good job,  in the time 
available, to make it easier for normal humans to read and we hope that the 
people following after us are able to improve on it if they need to.
Regards from
Tom :)







From: Krunoslav Šebetić 
To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 9:26
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [BUG] Fomula SYD description


On 07/20/2013 06:31 PM, Mirosław Zalewski wrote:

Personally, I favour precise and hermetic language. People who need
certain information will understand; people who don't, they don't care.

That's elitism and is wrong, really wrong.

Precision doesn't mean it has to be hermetic. "People who know how, don't
need help". Don't you find contradictory to write _help_ in hermetic
language? I'm not Calc user, but sometimes I do use it - and help which
doesn't help is worthless.

Bunch of (techno)babble is hard to translate (even impossible
sometimes), and hermetic _help_ can't really help user who is not
skilled in English. If you have something which is hard to translate and
understand in original is something which no one can benefit from.

I know you didn't meant anything wrong, it's just a concern from part
time Calc user.

Sincerely,

Krunoslav





--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description

[Sérgio Marques]

Hi Tom

Best to see for yourself what IRR is.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/irr.asp



2013/7/21 Tom Davies 

> Hi :)
> Thanks :)  I think
>
> Computes the internal rate of return for a series of cash flows
>
> is a minor improvement on the 2nd one.  Neither make any sense to me but
> some background reading about the topic made it clear i would never
> understand enough to get a short simple sentence.  The 2nd one suggests
> that the function can handle a number of inputs and then generate a single
> output value.  The first suggests that you have got to put in several
> different parameters in order to get a single output value.
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>   --
>  *From:* Sérgio Marques 
> *To:* Tom Davies 
> *Cc:* Mihovil Stanic ; LibreOffice-l10n <
> l10n@global.libreoffice.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, 21 July 2013, 12:58
>
> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Function IRR description
>
> 2013/7/21 Tom Davies 
>
> > Hi :)
> > Sorry i am not completely clear about 2 crucial things
> > 1.  What is the string as is?
> >
>
> Returns the actuarial rate of interest of an investment excluding costs or
> profits
>
>
> > 2.  What is the suggested alternative?
> >
>
> Compute the internal rate of return for a series of cash flows
>
> Stated by ODFF.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > I couldn't find the Oasis definitions and i loathe looking through MS
> > Office anything.  The link given seems to be specifically about
> healthcare
> > but may not have been written by someone that really knows what they are
> > talking about.  I tried looking for something more generic and found this
> > hopelessly detailed page in wikipedia
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actuarial_science
> > also this unclear (and also long-winded) definition
> > http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/actuarial-valuation.asp
> > and this one
> > http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/actuarial-value/
> >
> > Would it be safer to just rewrite the equation it uses but rewrite in
> > English?  (probably not but sometimes it helps)
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
>
>
>
> --
> Sérgio Marques
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>
>


-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Sérgio Marques]

2013/7/21 Tom Davies 

>
>
> Hi :)
> For the non-geeks, stripping out the coding gives us
>
> Insert mode is enabled.
> The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
> Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>
> Insert mode is enabled. When in Writer
> The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
> Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>
> The overwrite mode is enabled.
> The text cursor is a blinking block.
> Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>
> The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
> Wrtiter The text cursor is a blinking block.
> Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>
>
> I think even after correcting 'obvious' typos the paragraphs are still
> unclear.  What is "the area" that it is saying needs to be clicked on?  Why
> not just press the "insert" key on the keyboard?  A couple of the
> paragraphs specify Writer but surely the same thing happens in the other
> apps/modules?
>


My problem with this string is that "Where in Writer" does not appear for
translation. But it´s also true that "the area" is unclear.

Regards


>
> Perhaps a better generic paragraph would be something like;
>
> When using insert mode
> the text-cursor is a blinking block, █ .
> Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.
>
> When using overwrite mode
> the text-cursor is a blinking vertical line, | .
> Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.
>
>
> Errr, i couldn't find a decent block but the vertical line is on the
> keyboard, either around the Enter key or off to the far left besides the
> shift key.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
> >
> > From: Sérgio Marques 
> >To: Libreoffice Translation List 
> >Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 1:44
> >Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
> >
> >
> >Insert mode is enabled.  >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
> >Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
> >
> >In help page wiki:
> >
> >Insert mode is enabled. When in
> Writer >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
> >Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
> >
> >
> >The overwrite mode is enabled.  >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
> >Click on the area to enable insert mode.
> >
> >In help page wiki:
> >
> >The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
> >Wrtiter >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
> >Click on the area to enable insert mode.
> >--
> >Sérgio Marques
> >
> >
>



-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1  
The "When in Writer" should be taken out of that 2nd and 4th examples.  

I just quickly tested in all the apps except Base and it works the same in all 
of them.  In Calc you only notice it if the cursor is in the formula-bar / 
function-bar, whatever you call that big 'white' field at the top where you 
type in the contents of the cell if not typing directly into the cells!  So, it 
works in all of them (not just Writer).  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Sérgio Marques 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: Libreoffice Translation List  
>Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 22:21
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
> 
>
>2013/7/21 Tom Davies 
>
>>
>>
>> Hi :)
>> For the non-geeks, stripping out the coding gives us
>>
>> Insert mode is enabled.
>> The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
>> Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>>
>> Insert mode is enabled. When in Writer
>> The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
>> Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>>
>> The overwrite mode is enabled.
>> The text cursor is a blinking block.
>> Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>>
>> The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
>> Wrtiter The text cursor is a blinking block.
>> Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>>
>>
>> I think even after correcting 'obvious' typos the paragraphs are still
>> unclear.  What is "the area" that it is saying needs to be clicked on?  Why
>> not just press the "insert" key on the keyboard?  A couple of the
>> paragraphs specify Writer but surely the same thing happens in the other
>> apps/modules?
>>
>
>
>My problem with this string is that "Where in Writer" does not appear for
>translation. But it´s also true that "the area" is unclear.
>
>Regards
>
>
>>
>> Perhaps a better generic paragraph would be something like;
>>
>> When using insert mode
>> the text-cursor is a blinking block, █ .
>> Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.
>>
>> When using overwrite mode
>> the text-cursor is a blinking vertical line, | .
>> Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.
>>
>>
>> Errr, i couldn't find a decent block but the vertical line is on the
>> keyboard, either around the Enter key or off to the far left besides the
>> shift key.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > From: Sérgio Marques 
>> >To: Libreoffice Translation List 
>> >Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 1:44
>> >Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
>> >
>> >
>> >Insert mode is enabled. > >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
>> >Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>> >
>> >In help page wiki:
>> >
>> >Insert mode is enabled. When in
>> Writer> >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line. 
>> >Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
>> >
>> >
>> >The overwrite mode is enabled. > >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
>> >Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>> >
>> >In help page wiki:
>> >
>> >The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
>> >Wrtiter> >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
>> >Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>> >--
>> >Sérgio Marques
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Sérgio Marques
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Sérgio Marques]

2013/7/21 Tom Davies 

> Hi :)
> +1
> The "When in Writer" should be taken out of that 2nd and 4th examples.
>

Or be added.


>
> I just quickly tested in all the apps except Base and it works the same in
> all of them.  In Calc you only notice it if the cursor is in the
> formula-bar / function-bar, whatever you call that big 'white' field at the
> top where you type in the contents of the cell if not typing directly into
> the cells!  So, it works in all of them (not just Writer).
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>


If string is common, it´s best to remove instead of adding.

Regards

>
>
>   --
>  *From:* Sérgio Marques 
> *To:* Tom Davies 
> *Cc:* Libreoffice Translation List 
> *Sent:* Sunday, 21 July 2013, 22:21
> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
>
> 2013/7/21 Tom Davies 
>
> >
> >
> > Hi :)
> > For the non-geeks, stripping out the coding gives us
> >
> > Insert mode is enabled.
> > The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
> > Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
> >
> > Insert mode is enabled. When in Writer
> > The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
> > Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
> >
> > The overwrite mode is enabled.
> > The text cursor is a blinking block.
> > Click on the area to enable insert mode.
> >
> > The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
> > Wrtiter The text cursor is a blinking block.
> > Click on the area to enable insert mode.
> >
> >
> > I think even after correcting 'obvious' typos the paragraphs are still
> > unclear.  What is "the area" that it is saying needs to be clicked on?
> Why
> > not just press the "insert" key on the keyboard?  A couple of the
> > paragraphs specify Writer but surely the same thing happens in the other
> > apps/modules?
> >
>
>
> My problem with this string is that "Where in Writer" does not appear for
> translation. But it´s also true that "the area" is unclear.
>
> Regards
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps a better generic paragraph would be something like;
> >
> > When using insert mode
> > the text-cursor is a blinking block, █ .
> > Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.
> >
> > When using overwrite mode
> > the text-cursor is a blinking vertical line, | .
> > Clicking on {the area} "toggles" the mode back to insert mode.
> >
> >
> > Errr, i couldn't find a decent block but the vertical line is on the
> > keyboard, either around the Enter key or off to the far left besides the
> > shift key.
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: Sérgio Marques 
> > >To: Libreoffice Translation List 
> > >Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 1:44
> > >Subject: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
> > >
> > >
> > >Insert mode is enabled.  > >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
> 
> > >Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
> > >
> > >In help page wiki:
> > >
> > >Insert mode is enabled. When in
> > Writer > >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking vertical line.
> 
> > >Click on the area to enable the overwrite mode.
> > >
> > >
> > >The overwrite mode is enabled.  > >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
> > >Click on the area to enable insert mode.
> > >
> > >In help page wiki:
> > >
> > >The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
> > >Wrtiter > >select="WRITER">The text cursor is a blinking block. 
> > >Click on the area to enable insert mode.
> > >--
> > >Sérgio Marques
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sérgio Marques
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>
>


-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Martin Srebotnjak]

Thanks, Sérgio,

here we go:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67148

Lp, m.


>> 2013/7/21 Sérgio Marques :
> Please check:
>
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/sv
>
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/ru
>
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/ast

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Sérgio Marques]

2013/7/21 Martin Srebotnjak 

> 2013/7/21 Sérgio Marques :
>
> > My problem with this string is that "Where in Writer" does not appear for
> > translation. But it´s also true that "the area" is unclear.
>
> Yeah, does that mean that string in English appears also on other
> wiki-help pages, like in Spanish, Slovenian etc.? That should be
> localizable, otherwise it is a serious bug.
>
> Lp, m.
>

Yes it does.

Please check:

https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/sv

https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/ru

https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/ast



-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Sérgio Marques]

Thanks for the report.

Regards

2013/7/21 Martin Srebotnjak 

> Thanks, Sérgio,
>
> here we go:
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67148
>
> Lp, m.
>
>
> >> 2013/7/21 Sérgio Marques :
> > Please check:
> >
> >
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/sv
> >
> >
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/ru
> >
> >
> https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Switching_Between_Insert_Mode_and_Overwrite_Mode/ast
>



-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Tom, *,

On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Tom Davies  wrote:
> [...]
> The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
> Wrtiter The text cursor is a blinking block.
> Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>
>
> I think even after correcting 'obvious' typos the paragraphs are still 
> unclear.  What is "the area" that it is saying needs to be clicked on?

The Indicator-area in the Statusbar that shows the status of overwrite mode.

> Why not just press the "insert" key on the keyboard?

Many ways that lead to Rome.. But toggle with insert key and you
should see the statusbar changing :-)

ciao
Christian

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Thanks !  Good plan ! :)

Now that i have found it i can't think of any better name than "the area"!  I 
was hoping that some inspiration would leap out at me if i ever found the area 
but it didn't.  Anyway i think i took this thread waaay off-topic and i am glad 
to see a few people have managed to get it back on-track.  


Btw It seems i have to double-click to get into Overwrite mode but just a 
single click to get back to insert mode.  I think that is another side issue 
leading off-track again and most people will probably be able to work out that 
sort of thing.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Christian Lohmaier 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: Sérgio Marques ; Libreoffice Translation List 
> 
>Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2013, 23:47
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Errors in help pages
> 
>
>Hi Tom, *,
>
>On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Tom Davies  wrote:
>> [...]
>> The overwrite mode is enabled. When in
>> Wrtiter The text cursor is a blinking block.
>> Click on the area to enable insert mode.
>>
>>
>> I think even after correcting 'obvious' typos the paragraphs are still 
>> unclear.  What is "the area" that it is saying needs to be clicked on?
>
>The Indicator-area in the Statusbar that shows the status of overwrite mode.
>
>> Why not just press the "insert" key on the keyboard?
>
>Many ways that lead to Rome.. But toggle with insert key and you
>should see the statusbar changing :-)
>
>ciao
>Christian
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-l10n] CRITBINOM function description is wrong

[Sérgio Marques]

File: scalc/01.po
Context: 04060183.xhp par_id3149254 49 help.txt
Comments: yXdFy

Returns the smallest value for which the
cumulative binomial distribution is less than or equal to a criterion value.


Should be:

Returns the smallest value for which the
cumulative binomial distribution is greater than or equal to a criterion
value.


Also in:

 File:


sc/source/ui/src.po
Context:

scfuncs.src RID_SC_FUNCTION_DESCRIPTIONS2.SC_OPCODE_KRIT_BINOM 1 string.text
Comments:


o6CUv


 Should be:


 Context:

scfuncs.src RID_SC_FUNCTION_DESCRIPTIONS2.SC_OPCODE_CRIT_BINOM 1 string.text


-- 
Sérgio Marques

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] CRITBINOM function description is wrong

[Mihovil Stanic]

Nice catch.
Oasis says it's "greater then"
http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part2.html#CRITBINOM

MS Office says "less then" in function title description
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/excel-functions-by-category-HA102752955.aspx?CTT=1

and then it says "greater then" in function description
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/critbinom-function-HA102753199.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA102752955

LO says "less then".
Would be nice if someone could actually use this formula and say which 
is true. :)


Best regards,
Mihovil


Dana 22.7.2013. 1:44, Sérgio Marques je napisao:

File: scalc/01.po
Context: 04060183.xhp par_id3149254 49 help.txt
Comments: yXdFy

Returns the smallest value for which the
cumulative binomial distribution is less than or equal to a criterion value.


Should be:

Returns the smallest value for which the
cumulative binomial distribution is greater than or equal to a criterion
value.


Also in:

  File:


sc/source/ui/src.po
Context:

scfuncs.src RID_SC_FUNCTION_DESCRIPTIONS2.SC_OPCODE_KRIT_BINOM 1 string.text
Comments:


o6CUv


  Should be:


  Context:

scfuncs.src RID_SC_FUNCTION_DESCRIPTIONS2.SC_OPCODE_CRIT_BINOM 1 string.text





--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted