Re: KRnet> KR2 Plans For Sale

[G R Pickett via KRnet]

I have seen this fuselage.  It is VERY well constructed, and I think it might 
be the correct length for a KR2S.  Appeared to be spruce aircraft plywood.  It 
will save some builder many hours of construction time and and several hundred 
dollars in build cost.
Griff Pickett

-Original Message-
From: KRnet  On Behalf Of larry howell via KRnet
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2022 9:41 AM
To: KRnet 
Cc: larry howell 
Subject: KRnet> KR2 Plans For Sale


Jack Daughtery has a set of KR2 plans he'd like to sell. 
He also has a KR2 fuselage he's willing to give away if someone will come and 
pick it up. He lives in Muskogee Oklahoma. Call him to discuss these items 918. 
 680.  0173. 

Larry H
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KRnet> Has tank

[GARRY COWLES via KRnet]

Could you make an aluminum gas tank by brazing the seams and using JB weld to 
seal the seams 
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KRnet> Wing stubs

[Brett Lombardi via KRnet]

Hi KR builders,
I’ve foamed in my wing stubs and wondering if I need to cover the foam with
anything before fiberglass, ie layer of micro balloons? Or just fiberglass?
Thanks,
Brett
N718KR
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Re: KRnet> Has tank

[Rich Parker via KRnet]

You could if you are willing to have your engine quit in flight or die in a 
fire.

Rich

From: KRnet  on behalf of GARRY COWLES via KRnet 

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 6:31:28 PM
To: KRnet 
Cc: GARRY COWLES 
Subject: KRnet> Has tank


Could you make an aluminum gas tank by brazing the seams and using JB weld to 
seal the seams
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KRnet> JB Weld

[MS]

I've used JB to seal a couple tiny pinhole leaks in my aluminum tank.  This was 
years ago and I've had no further problems with leaks.  For that matter, J.B. 
has worked for everything I've ever used it on.  It's been great.  

MikeKSEE
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Re: KRnet> Has tank

[John Gotschall via KRnet]

I have an aluminum tank that was welded and leaked. A tiny pinhole.  Built
by someone else.

At the time I did not have experience with or equipment for aluminum
welding, so I drained it, filled it with water, drained it again and went
about aluminum brazing to fix the pinhole.  Similar to your question.

It did not work.  The braze did not flow like solder does with flux on
copper.  The braze does not wet out like the solder on copper.  I have not
found a flux that might get the aluminum brazing rod to fully wet out.  If
there were such a flux then it might work.

There are gas tank liner kits you can buy to plastic coat the interior of
metal fuel tanks to stop leaks.  The tank should be Ridgid and damn near
water tight before application

Many aircraft use a rubber or plastic liner called a bladder which is
removable for service and replacement.  A polysulfide sealant is used for
fuel contact sealant in the Lake amphibian.

If you want a fast build tank you could just build it up out of sheet
aluminum and rivets or fiberglass panels and have a bladder made for it.
There are more than a few custom fuel bladder shops out there.

My Lake has a 40 gallon bladder.  Attachments to the bladder for the filler
neck, drain, sediment sump and fuel gauge sender have to be well designed
for no leaks.

I don't know if jb weld is made for constant fuel contact as are
polysulfide sealants or whatever they use in the tank reseal kits at the
auto supply store.

Having had several types over the years I would go welded and pressure
tested or bladder types.

So many planes in excess of 40 years or more in service makes the bladder
attractive as you can replace it every few decades and without having to
deconstruct the aircraft from around the tanks to service the bladder.

Or maybe you are a good enough engineer to make the tanks easy to remove
when it finally corrodes through.

Cheers!



Could you make an aluminum gas tank by brazing the seams and using JB weld
> to seal the seams
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: KRnet> Wing stubs

[Michael Quinn via KRnet]

I recommend a microslurry (micro balloons mixed with epoxy with the consistency 
of mayonase/ or fluff (if you know what that is 😉 ) before laying up fiberglass 
(done in the same layup).  If you are not able to - put peel ply (dacron) down 
and wet out.

M.

From: KRnet  on behalf of Brett Lombardi via 
KRnet 
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 6:35 PM
To: KRnet 
Cc: Brett Lombardi 
Subject: KRnet> Wing stubs

Hi KR builders,
I’ve foamed in my wing stubs and wondering if I need to cover the foam with 
anything before fiberglass, ie layer of micro balloons? Or just fiberglass?
Thanks,
Brett
N718KR
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Re: KRnet> Has tank

[Michael Quinn via KRnet]

weld - and if any leaks use pro-seal.

Anything else you are compromising the seam - and dealing with "glues" not 
specifically designed for being in fuel for extended amounts of time.

M.

From: KRnet  on behalf of GARRY COWLES via KRnet 

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 6:31 PM
To: KRnet 
Cc: GARRY COWLES 
Subject: KRnet> Has tank


Could you make an aluminum gas tank by brazing the seams and using JB weld to 
seal the seams
Sent from my iPhone
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KRnet> Buying a kr2

[hansardelectric--- via KRnet]

Good evening,
Has anyone on here looked at buying the KR2 from Justin Hornung? I’ve seen 
pictures and the construction looks pretty solid. I’ve yet to see it in person. 
His father was building the plane and has since passed. 

Thank you,

Paul Hansard
Hansard Electric
678-956-0468
hansardelect...@gmail.com


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Re: KRnet> Wing stubs

[Dave Klingler via KRnet]

Just to be sure there’s no ambiguity, do NOT put a layer of peel ply down and 
then glass over it.  Peel ply will prevent your fiberglass from adhering to the 
foam surface, and it will delaminate.

Cotton flox mixed with epoxy will fill the surface, but it’s heavy.  So will 
glass microballoons. Ideally, bring your foam surface up as close to shape as 
possible, then use micro.

Dave

> On Oct 30, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Michael Quinn via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> I recommend a microslurry (micro balloons mixed with epoxy with the 
> consistency of mayonase/ or fluff (if you know what that is 😉 ) before laying 
> up fiberglass (done in the same layup).  If you are not able to - put peel 
> ply (dacron) down and wet out.
> 
> M.
> From: KRnet  on behalf of Brett Lombardi via 
> KRnet 
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 6:35 PM
> To: KRnet 
> Cc: Brett Lombardi 
> Subject: KRnet> Wing stubs
>  
> Hi KR builders,
> I’ve foamed in my wing stubs and wondering if I need to cover the foam with 
> anything before fiberglass, ie layer of micro balloons? Or just fiberglass?
> Thanks,
> Brett
> N718KR
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Re: KRnet> Has tank

[MS]

The bladder or liner business sounds like unnecessary trouble.  My 17 gallon 
removable aluminum tank sits with flanges welded to each side of it.  The 
flanges sit upon the fuselage side rails.  I had two or three little pinhole 
areas along one of the seams on the bottom.  JB has held up after this one-time 
fix, sixteen years ago.  I normally use avgas but it has had Chevron Supreme in 
it occasionally, added to existing avgas when topping it off prior to a trip.  
So it's been exposed to this mixture, but not often.  I've got a 4 gallon aux 
tank in one wing, made with vinyl ester and has never had anything in it but 
avgas.     

My experience has been that I get slightly better fuel economy (per fuel flow 
gauge and overall) and slight but noticeably better power on avgas.  There's 
less concern with getting strange chemicals when using avgas.  One less 
variable to worry about.     
I can't imagine working behind the panel or getting to the brake cylinders and 
wing roots . . . without having a removable tank.  Huge headache with the 
plans-built tanks.  I've thanked Ken Cottle many times over for this and other 
features he built into 335KC.  

Mike Stirewalt
KSEE
A removable tank is an absolute necessity when working behind the panel.  
Sparky's KR (his second) had the standard integral tank and  
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Re: KRnet> Wing stubs

[Michael Quinn via KRnet]

Yes Dave - thanks for clarifying that - I have seen people make that mistake!!! 
 I get colored dacron so I do not make the mistake.

Oh, and there is a gratifying feeling and sound when removing the peel ply (you 
peel it off after the epoxy is 100% cured).  Somewhere between popping bubble 
wrap, velcro, or removing that band aid off someone else's harry arm!  LOL!!!

M.

From: KRnet  on behalf of Dave Klingler via KRnet 

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 7:58 PM
To: KRnet 
Cc: Dave Klingler 
Subject: Re: KRnet> Wing stubs

Just to be sure there’s no ambiguity, do NOT put a layer of peel ply down and 
then glass over it.  Peel ply will prevent your fiberglass from adhering to the 
foam surface, and it will delaminate.

Cotton flox mixed with epoxy will fill the surface, but it’s heavy.  So will 
glass microballoons. Ideally, bring your foam surface up as close to shape as 
possible, then use micro.

Dave

On Oct 30, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Michael Quinn via KRnet 
mailto:krnet@list.krnet.org>> wrote:

I recommend a microslurry (micro balloons mixed with epoxy with the consistency 
of mayonase/ or fluff (if you know what that is 😉 ) before laying up fiberglass 
(done in the same layup).  If you are not able to - put peel ply (dacron) down 
and wet out.

M.

From: KRnet mailto:krnet-boun...@list.krnet.org>> 
on behalf of Brett Lombardi via KRnet 
mailto:krnet@list.krnet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2022 6:35 PM
To: KRnet mailto:krnet@list.krnet.org>>
Cc: Brett Lombardi mailto:blombard...@gmail.com>>
Subject: KRnet> Wing stubs

Hi KR builders,
I’ve foamed in my wing stubs and wondering if I need to cover the foam with 
anything before fiberglass, ie layer of micro balloons? Or just fiberglass?
Thanks,
Brett
N718KR
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Re: KRnet> JB Weld

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

JB Weld is simply an epoxy product with loaded with some fillers to give it a more viscous wet consistency and a relatively hard finish. I wouldn't use it anywhere you wouldn't consider using any other epoxy resins. If you prep an aluminum (or composite) surface for bonding, you'll find JB Weld, as well as most other epoxies such as West or T-88, will work well to stop a pinhole leak.If you want to read some read fuel tank horror stories and how I rebuilt them, I suggest reading a a couple of pages on my web site .Under the SuperCub files. There is a page labeled "Mogas vs Composite Tanks". Lots of good info there about additional chemicals added to mogas that literally melted the composite fuel tanks in my SuperCub clone. Additionally, I have a number of photos and descriptions as I cleaned up the ruined tanks and quite literally built new tanks inside the old tanks.Under the RV-6 files, about half way down page 5 labeled "Flight Prep and Test Flying" you'll see the process I used to overhaul a leaky aluminum tank on my RV-6. I currently have the other tank out for overhaul and am using the exact same process.-Jeff ScottArkansas Ozarks--Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: KRnet> JB Weld

[Ronald Wright via KRnet]

JB Weld:  IT IS NOT ETHANOL PROOF.  The ethanol melts it.  I had the issue
when I used it to seal some "pin hole leaks" in an aluminum tank.  Worked
for a while and then leaked.  I called the company the makes it and the
nice lady I talked to said it was good to use with everything EXCEPT
ETHANOL..

I had used it on what was "ethanol free gas".   Apparently it had some
"minor amount" of ethanol in it.  So, don't use it around anything that can
even splash it on the JB..

Ron

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 10:19 PM Jeff Scott via KRnet 
wrote:

> JB Weld is simply an epoxy product with loaded with some fillers to give
> it a more viscous wet consistency and a relatively hard finish. I wouldn't
> use it anywhere you wouldn't consider using any other epoxy resins. If you
> prep an aluminum (or composite) surface for bonding, you'll find JB Weld,
> as well as most other epoxies such as West or T-88, will work well to stop
> a pinhole leak.
>
> If you want to read some read fuel tank horror stories and how I rebuilt
> them, I suggest reading a a couple of pages on my web site <
> http://jeffsplanes.com>.
>
> Under the SuperCub files. There is a page labeled "Mogas vs Composite
> Tanks". Lots of good info there about additional chemicals added to mogas
> that literally melted the composite fuel tanks in my SuperCub clone.
> Additionally, I have a number of photos and descriptions as I cleaned up
> the ruined tanks and quite literally built new tanks inside the old tanks.
>
> Under the RV-6 files, about half way down page 5 labeled "Flight Prep and
> Test Flying" you'll see the process I used to overhaul a leaky aluminum
> tank on my RV-6. I currently have the other tank out for overhaul and am
> using the exact same process.
>
> -Jeff Scott
> Arkansas Ozarks
>
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Re: KRnet> Re: JB Weld

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

It may not have been alcohol that damage the JB Weld.  Take a look at the web site I listed in my previous email.  My tanks were never exposed to alcohol, but were destroyed by the other additives (primarily injector cleaner) now found in most auto gas.  I tested the alcohol free premium fuel from several local stations only found no alcohol, but other additives that would damage epoxies with the exception of one station.  Last spring the station manager there mentioned to me that his jobber had forced him to change to a different premium mogas.  Like all the other stations in this area, it was alcohol free, but failed the other test I had devised and was unsafe for use in my planes.  I have been running all 3 of my planes on a diet of straight 100LL  ever since I lost my last usable mogas source last spring. There are other chemicals now being added to most auto fuels that may damage composite tanks or other components in your fuel system.-Jeff ScottArkansas Ozarks --Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: KRnet> JB Weld

[John Gotschall via KRnet]

So,

I earlier mentioned polysulfide sealant is FAA approved for fuel contact in
my Lake Amphibian.  After making that post I read about automotive fuel
tank sealants, there are several.

Certainly they are not so rigorously tested as FAA approved products, but
it seems the manufacturer intends those sealants to perform with mogas.

They seem reasonable (if not certified) to perform with the mogas fuels.

I could not find specific data of those in use in aluminum tanks but I did
email their tech support for info on that.

jg

>
>
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