Re: CDP

[Keith McCloghrie]

> Is CDP (Cisco Discovery Protocol) an IETF draft or RFC?

No, but several years ago, we submitted a subset of CDP (which we
called PDP) as an Internet-Draft to the IETF's Physical Topology MIB
Working Group.  It was accepted as a WG document, with a number of
changes, but the WG lost interest in it more than a year ago (the
Internet-Draft has since expired).  The WG recently decided to go
forward with just a MIB, abandoning the attempt to standardise a
protocol.

Keith.

Re: Email messages: How large is too large? too much

[Jon Crowcroft]

einstein might have said that matter and energy are interchangeable
but space and time are not
i can buy a 10Gig disk for a lot less than the average per diem pay in
US/EU

there's too MANY emails, not too MUCH of each
j.

Re: WAP

[Jon Crowcroft]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Bradner typed:

 >>WAP is not an IETF activity - it is from the WAP Forum
 >>http://www.wapforum.org/
 
and nearly as many clues as wires

happy winter solstice

 cheers

   jon

Re: Email messages: How large is too large?

[Jon Knight]

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, George Michaelson wrote:
>   o Internet driving licences may seem a bit naff, but there
> is value in requiring people to migrate to a power-user
> status by at least trying to teach them that there are
> consequences to using tools in distributed communications

Just to point out that there appears to be something called the European
Computer Driving License (see http://www.wlv.ac.uk/pers/csdpages/
ecdl.htm> for instance).  I've no idea what sort of Internet training this
provides to end users but I would guess its more the "which button to
press in IE 5" type of training course.  I'll find out early next year as
my girlfriend who is a public librarian is going to have to go on the
course.

User education is a tricky subject.  One of my collegues in the Networks
Team is currently on the phone explaining to an end user that sending an
email with a large Word attachment to all 15000 users on campus isn't a
good idea as our mail servers will melt.  Despite our email training
courses telling people this, its a regular request, especially from
non-academic departments who are used to doing paper based mass mailings
to students.  Funny thing is that depite us offering to put the Word
document on a web page and then send a small email pointing at it,
they might well just decide to flood the campus postal mail still (has
happened before).  Managing this even on a single campus is a headache.

Tatty bye,

Jim'll

RE: Email messages: How large is too large?

[Michael Welzl]

> > o Internet driving licences may seem a bit naff, but there
> >   is value in requiring people to migrate to a power-user
> >   status by at least trying to teach them that there are
> >   consequences to using tools in distributed communications
> 
> Just to point out that there appears to be something called 
> the European
> Computer Driving License (see http://www.wlv.ac.uk/pers/csdpages/
> ecdl.htm> for instance).  I've no idea what sort of Internet 
> training this
> provides to end users but I would guess its more the "which button to
> press in IE 5" type of training course.  I'll find out early 
> next year as
> my girlfriend who is a public librarian is going to have to go on the
> course.
> 
> User education is a tricky subject.  One of my collegues in 
> the Networks
> Team is currently on the phone explaining to an end user that 
> sending an
> email with a large Word attachment to all 15000 users on 
> campus isn't a
> good idea as our mail servers will melt.  Despite our email training
> courses telling people this, its a regular request, especially from
> non-academic departments who are used to doing paper based 
> mass mailings

Having done the "which button to press in IE5" as well as "how to send
an email" type of training courses for over a year, I came up with a
little routine when it came to attachments: I explained the consequences
of big attachments and told them if they don't want the receiver to
get angry at them, they should ask before sending a big attachment.
As a definition of "big", I said "1 MB and more".
To me, this makes sense; I believe we can avoid some of those problems
through user education.

Regards,
Michael Welzl

Re: Email messages: How large is too large?

[Jon Crowcroft]

In message , Jon Knight typed:

 >>>o Internet driving licences may seem a bit naff, but there
 >>>  is value in requiring people to migrate to a power-user
 >>>  status by at least trying to teach them that there are
 >>>  consequences to using tools in distributed communications
 
 >>Just to point out that there appears to be something called the European
 >>Computer Driving License (see http://www.wlv.ac.uk/pers/csdpages/
 >>ecdl.htm> for instance).  I've no idea what sort of Internet training

one minor difference between the internet and roads
is that on roads, most people are ok drivers, whereas on the internet,
you have to follow Postel's rule - assume everyone else is a psycopath
_and_ behave like a philanthropist

there's a special course in +defensive+ driving you can do which is
close - if you've ever tried going above 120mph on 101, you'll know
exasctly what i mean
 >>provides to end users but I would guess its more the "which button to
 >>press in IE 5" type of training course.  I'll find out early next year as
 >>my girlfriend who is a public librarian is going to have to go on the
 >>course.
 >>
 >>User education is a tricky subject.  One of my collegues in the Networks
 >>Team is currently on the phone explaining to an end user that sending an
 >>email with a large Word attachment to all 15000 users on campus isn't a
 >>good idea as our mail servers will melt.  Despite our email training
 >>courses telling people this, its a regular request, especially from
 >>non-academic departments who are used to doing paper based mass mailings
 >>to students.  Funny thing is that depite us offering to put the Word
 >>document on a web page and then send a small email pointing at it,
 >>they=A0might well just decide to flood the campus postal mail still (has
 >>happened before).  Managing this even on a single campus is a headache.
 >>
 >>Tatty bye,
 >>
 >>Jim'll
 >>

 cheers

   jon

IP QoS workshops conferences and journals

[Jon Crowcroft]

The First International Workshop
Quality of future Internet Services (QofIS'2000)
25- 26 September 2000 in Berlin, Germany 
http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/qofis2000/

The purpose of this workshop is to present and discuss the design and 
implementation techniques for QoS Engineering for Internet services. This workshop 
explicitly focuses on end to end services over QoS assured Internet, on
the issues of service creation, configuration and deployment. 

Important Deadlines:
29 March 2000: Papers, demonstrations and panel proposals 
29 May 2000: Authors notified of acceptance 
07 July 2000: Camera-ready copies of papers and panelists' position papers due

For all details visit http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/qofis2000/
-

see also 
IWQoS 2000 at CMU
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~iwqos/

and sigcomm 2000
http://www.acm.org/sigcomm/sigcomm2000

and
Special Issue of Computer Communications
   on
QoS-Sensitive Network Applications and Systems

and
JOURNAL OF COMMUNICATIONS AND NETWORKING (JCN)   
CALL FOR PAPERS - SPECIAL ISSUE ON QoS IN IP NETWORKS
JUNE, 2000

Re: Email messages: How large is too large? size matters, not

[Jon Crowcroft]

 >>get angry at them, they should ask before sending a big attachment.
 >>As a definition of "big", I said "1 MB and more".
 
i dont care what SIZE it is - i only care whether i have the
application to view it  - microsoft users sdjhould be educated in the
simple fact - not everyone has word or powerpoint or wants to buy them
- so NEVER EVER send a word or ppt or excel
attachment except to someone you are
co-authoring a paper/talk/expense claim
with and have agreed the package in advance by text mail

publically avaialble standards exist for the excchange of text and
graphics, and we do not need to tolerate a monopoly who fails to serve
the maximum public good by failing to publish their interchange
formats.

 cheers

   jon

Number of entries in routing tables

[Gianluca . Rolandelli]

Hi all.
I have read that an inter domain router (connected to the big Internet) has a
routing table with 42000 entries (this value refers to the end of 1996). I would
like to know if it is possible to estimate the number of entries of an intra
domain router (that has only the knowledge of the destinations of the domain it
belongs to).
Tanks in advance!

Re: Number of entries in routing tables

[Erik-Jan Bos]

Gianluca,

> I have read that an inter domain router (connected to the big Internet) has a
> routing table with 42000 entries (this value refers to the end of 1996). 

That number is really old. This is what I see right now:

br7.amsterdam>sh ip bgp sum
[...]
68413 network entries [...]
[...]

> I would
> like to know if it is possible to estimate the number of entries of an intra
> domain router (that has only the knowledge of the destinations of the domain it
> belongs to).

When you do default routing (aka non default free routing) it entirely
depends on the size of the domain. For a stub network this could
typically mean just the address space of the customers.

__
 
Erik-Jan.

Re: Number of entries in routing tables

[Bill Manning]

% Hi all.
% I have read that an inter domain router (connected to the big Internet) has a
% routing table with 42000 entries (this value refers to the end of 1996). I would
% like to know if it is possible to estimate the number of entries of an intra
% domain router (that has only the knowledge of the destinations of the domain it
% belongs to).
% Tanks in advance!

The answer, as usual, is "it depends".  What is the "size" of your intra-domain?
In todays world, an interdomain router has just under 70,000 entries. 


--bill

Re: WAP

[Henning Schulzrinne]

> and nearly as many clues as wires
> 

which
http://www.computer.org/internet/ic1999/w4089abs.htm
elaborates on.
-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs

Re: WAP

[Steve Hultquist]

See the http://www.w3c.org/Mobile Web site.

ssh



   

"Manohar   

Menon"   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  Subject: WAP  

   

12/14/1999 

08:19 PM   

   

   




dear folks

 Could anyone inform me on details  - technical specifications and etc on
WAP ?

 Mano

Re: Email messages: How large is too large? too much

[Randy Bush]

[ i was not going to participate in this thread, but you pushed a button ]

> i can buy a 10Gig disk for a lot less than the average per diem pay in
> US/EU

the us/eu is not the world.  in some places *monthly* pay is 25% of the
price of that disk (and some of those places are in eu!).  those folk's
needs are just as valid as yours and mine, my privileged friend.

and some of us have to connect via slow and somewhat expensive means
occasionally, and thus we appreciate our correspondants asking before
sending a monster.

this is a society as well as a technology.

randy

ISOC Netw. & Distr. Sys. Security Symp. (NDSS 2000)

[David M. Balenson]

  R E G I S T E R   N O W ! !

THE INTERNET SOCIETY'S
Year 2000 NETWORK AND DISTRIBUTED SYSTEM SECURITY (NDSS) SYMPOSIUM
February 2-4, 2000
Catamaran Resort Hotel, San Diego, California
General Chair:   Steve Welke, Trusted Computer Solutions
Program Chairs:  Gene Tsudik, USC/Information Sciences Institute
 Avi Rubin, AT&T Labs - Research

ONLINE INFORMATION AND REGISTRATION:  http://www.isoc.org/ndss2000
EARLY REGISTRATION DISCOUNT DEADLINE:  January 6, 2000

The 7th annual NDSS Symposium brings together researchers,
implementers, and users of network and distributed system security
technologies to discuss today's important security issues and
challenges.  The Symposium provides a mix of technical papers and
panel presentations that describe promising new approaches to
security problems that are practical and, to the extent possible,
have been implemented.  NDSS fosters the exchange of technical
information and encourages the Internet community to deploy available
security technologies and develop new solutions to unsolved problems.

KEYNOTE SPEAKER: Gene Spafford, Professor of Computer Sciences at
Purdue University, an expert in information security, computer crime
investigation and information ethics.  Spaf (as he is known to his
friends, colleagues, and students) is director of the Purdue CERIAS
(Center for Education and Research in Information Assurance and
Security), and was the founder and director of the (now superseded)
COAST Laboratory. 

THIS YEAR'S TOPICS INCLUDE:
- Automated Detection of Buffer Overrun Vulnerabilities
- User-Level Infrastructure for System Call Interposition
- Optimized Group Rekey for Group Communication Systems
- IPSec-based Host Architecture for Secure  Internet Multicast
- The Economics of Security
- Automatic Generation of Security Protocols
- Security Protocols for SPKI-based Delegation Systems
- Secure Border Gateway Protocol (S-BGP)
- Analysis of a Fair Exchange Protocol
- Secure Password-Based Protocols for TLS
- Chameleon Signatures
- Lightweight Tool for Detecting Web Server Attacks
- Adaptive and Agile Applications Using Intrusion Detection
- Secure Virtual Enclaves
- Encrypted rlogin Connections Created With Kerberos IV
- Accountability and Control of Process Creation in Metasystems
- Red Teaming and Network Security

PRE-CONFERENCE TECHNICAL TUTORIALS:
- Network Security Protocol Standards, Dr. Stephen T. Kent
- Deployed and Emerging Security Systems for the Internet, Dr. Radia
  Perlman and Charlie Kaufman
- Mobile Code Security and Java 2 Architecture, Dr. Gary McGraw
- Cryptography 101, Dr. Aviel D. Rubin
- Public Key Infrastructure - The Truth and How to Find It, Dr. Daniel
  E. Geer, Jr.
- An Introduction to Intrusion Detection Technology, Mr. Mark Wood 

FOR MORE INFORMATION contact the Internet Society:
  Internet Society, 11150 Sunset Hills Road, Reston, VA, 20190 USA
  Phone: +1-703-326-9880 Fax: +1-703-326-9881
  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   URL: http://www.isoc.org/ndss2000/

SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE!  Take advantage of this high
visibility event.  Contact Carla Rosenfeld at the Internet Society
at +1-703-326-9880 or send e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

THE INTERNET SOCIETY is a non-governmental organization for global
cooperation and coordination for the Internet and its
internetworking technologies and applications.

Re: Number of entries in routing tables

[Geoff Huston]

There's a plot of the bgp table size on an hourly
basis since 1994 at http://www.telstra.net/ops/bgptable.html

As Bill points out, this data does depend on your location
within the network topology - the above url looks at the
world from the edge of AS1221.

  Geoff

> % Hi all.
> % I have read that an inter domain router (connected to the big Internet) has a
> % routing table with 42000 entries (this value refers to the end of 1996). I would
> % like to know if it is possible to estimate the number of entries of an intra
> % domain router (that has only the knowledge of the destinations of the domain it
> % belongs to).
> % Tanks in advance!
> 
> The answer, as usual, is "it depends".  What is the "size" of your intra-domain?
> In todays world, an interdomain router has just under 70,000 entries. 
> 
> 
> --bill
> 
> 

Re: Email messages: How large is too large?

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:17:26 +1000, George Michaelson said:
> Actually, I think the best example I know of the 'right way' is the
> old 'new RFC' email Joyce Reynolds used to post, which had the two variant
> MIME attachments for fetch it via FTP and fetch via the web. We just need
> more people to be that sensible!

We don't need more people to be that sensible.

We need MUAs that make it easy to be that sensible, and we need ubiquitous
storage for the external-body parts.

I've received large e-mail attachments from people on Macs who don't
have a web server handy.  I'l even admit to attaching large documents,
even though my MUA makes it relatively easy to do so(*), and I even
have a webserver running on this machine.

Why did I do it?  Because I *know* I'll forget to go remove the file from
the webserver directories after the recipient has retrieved it, and I've
been too lazy to set up an automated "kill after 2 weeks" command...

/Valdis

(*) And of course, I decided to double-check this before hitting 'send',
and discovered that it (a) does allow building anon-FTP references but
doesn't do http: references and (b) there's a bug because somebody forgot
to overhaul some code.. ;)



 PGP signature

Re: Number of entries in routing tables

[Vijay Gill]

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi all.
> I have read that an inter domain router (connected to the big Internet) has a
> routing table with 42000 entries (this value refers to the end of 1996). I would
> like to know if it is possible to estimate the number of entries of an intra
> domain router (that has only the knowledge of the destinations of the domain it
> belongs to).

The answer varies on the size of the domain obviously.  For the most part,
it would consist of the global default free routing table + whatever the
internal routes amount to.  For some promising local ISPs, this number is
substantially over 100,000 entries.  For others, it is less.

/vijay

RE: WAP

[Nagappa, Sathish]

Hi All,

I just found out that joining WAP forum costs you only $50,000 in annual
fees; if you want to be an associate member, it is $7500 per year.  Is there
another "open" forum besides this?!  More geared towards corporate
memberships than individuals, it looks like.

Sathish

-Original Message-
From: Steve Hultquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 9:15 AM
To: Manohar Menon
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WAP



See the http://www.w3c.org/Mobile Web site.

ssh



 

"Manohar

Menon"   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  Subject: WAP

 

12/14/1999

08:19 PM

 

 




dear folks

 Could anyone inform me on details  - technical specifications and etc on
WAP ?

 Mano

Re: Email messages: How large is too large? too much

[Dave Crocker]

At 06:34 AM 12/15/1999 , Randy Bush wrote:

>this is a society as well as a technology.

this should be framed, on a par with the presidents&kings quotation.

d/

=-=-=-=-=
Dave Crocker  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Brandenburg Consulting  
Tel: +1.408.246.8253,  Fax: +1.408.273.6464
675 Spruce Drive,  Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA 

Re: WAP

[Rohit Khare]

At 8:59 AM -0500 12/15/99, Henning Schulzrinne wrote:
> > and nearly as many clues as wires
> >
>which
>http://www.computer.org/internet/ic1999/w4089abs.htm
>elaborates on.
>--
>Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs

Thanks for the citation! The full text of that column, as well as the 
more extensive study it was based on, are available from my 
consultancy's home page:

http://www.4K-Associates.com/Library/IEEE-L7-WAP.html
http://www.4K-Associates.com/Library/IEEE-L7-WAP-BIG.html

Best,
Rohit Khare
UC Irvine + 4K Associates

RE: WAP

[Dan Kohn]

I believe the nearly identical paper is available at
.

And, a 35-page detailed version is available at
.

- dan
--
Daniel Kohn 
tel:+1-425-519-7968  fax:+1-425-602-6223
http://www.dankohn.com


-Original Message-
From: Henning Schulzrinne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 1999-12-15 06:00
To: Jon Crowcroft
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: WAP




> and nearly as many clues as wires
> 

which
http://www.computer.org/internet/ic1999/w4089abs.htm
elaborates on.
-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs

Re: IP network address assignments/allocations information?

[John Stracke]

Christian Huitema wrote:

> At 04:29 PM 12/14/99 -0500, John Stracke wrote:
>
> >> it only makes a difference if a
> >> connection to a transit provider breaks,
> >
> >Or if the chosen path becomes congested over time.
>
> No. This is no different from the present situation. BGP does not recompute
> routes in case of congestion.

But the routers do load balancing, don't they, with the result that a TCP
connection's packets may migrate from a congested path to an uncongested one?
Or is this something that winds up not working in actual practice?

--
/\
|John Stracke| http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.  |
|Chief Scientist |===|
|eCal Corp.  |We want forty million helicopters and a dollar!|
|[EMAIL PROTECTED]|--"Dinosaurs"  |
\/

RE: WAP

[amlan]

[ From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
[ Date: 21:43:30 (+) 15 December 1999  ]

> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Nagappa, Sathish wrote:

> > More geared towards corporate
> > memberships than individuals, it looks like.
> 
> Well, how many individuals own cellphone manufacturing plants?
>  
> L.

Duh ! You do not need to own a cellphone manufacturing plant to
implement the WAP standard for a WAP server, or do you ?

Going by the same logic, W3C, then should start asking for $5,
with the reasoning that not every individual has the need for a
webserver. 

IMNHO, any standard should be open and freely accessible to anyone
who wants to implement it.  The WAPFORUM is a sham in that respect.

/amlan.