Wayne Bickerdike

2025-01-12 Thread Peter Vels
It is with great sadness Linda Bickerdike and the Bickerdike family wish to
inform you of the unexpected but peaceful passing of Wayne Bickerdike on
Monday 6th of January 2025.

A memorial service will be held at 2 PM AEDT (GMT+11) Tuesday 21st of
January at Christ Church Geelong, Cnr Moorabool & McKillop Streets, Geelong.

A live stream of the service will be provided on jhfunerals.com.au for
those who cannot attend in person.

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Re: history and evolution of INFO/MVS, INFO/VM-VSE etc.

2025-01-12 Thread Sebastian Welton
I know of sites actively running it (INFOMAN) and of companies developing for 
it and then there is this:

https://www.ibm.com/mysupport/s/topic/0TO0z006v2NGAQ/tivoli-information-management-for-zos?language=en_US&productId=01t0z07g6zIAAQ

Followed by this:

https://log-on.com/2023/10/16/log-on-software-announces-tivoli-product-replacements/

Used to use it quite heavily on MVS and VM primarily as a problem reporting 
system.

Sebastian.

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed program 
you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability, 
maintainability, change tracking.

On the flip side, it is legitimate to write pages of comments for a single 
instruction if that makes the code more readable or more maintainable.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of The 
North American Becker <0762a73125b7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 1:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


Ignore the last one, lol. I am a neophyte.

https://youtu.be/z3Canfs_2Gc

Nick Becker (HAL8943)
Trident Services, Inc
319-451-8943

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Re: history and evolution of INFO/MVS, INFO/VM-VSE etc.

2025-01-12 Thread Phil Smith III
Was "irewalls" a typo? I like it either way! We should rename them that in many 
cases.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 8:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: history and evolution of INFO/MVS, INFO/VM-VSE etc.

Yes, it's dead, but the functionality is available from other services as long 
as you have Internet access and your irewalls don't get underfoot.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mark Jacobs <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 5:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: history and evolution of INFO/MVS, INFO/VM-VSE etc.

External Message: Use Caution


Does anyone remember Info/Access? It allowed the systems programmer to 
formulate a query on your terminal and then it would initiate a dial-up 
connection, at least in my company, to an IBM database. When the results were 
available IBM would dial us back and return the results. Sort of like RETAIN 
for customers.

We dropped the product when we migrated to MVS/XA because "free" BTAM was not 
supported under XA and we'd need to license BTAM/SP to continue to use the 
product. Since Info/Access was the only thing that needed BTAM in my 
organization, they didn't want to pay the monthly license charge for both 
products.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Saturday, January 11th, 2025 at 11:08 AM, Mark S Waterbury 
<01c3f560aac1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Hello, all,
>
> I am curious about the history and evolution of INFO/MVS and related 
> products INFO/VM-VSE and INFO/MANager,
>
> Does anyone recall ever hearing anything about the history of the INFO/OZS 
> products?
>
> How and where was it developed? Who developed it? (which IBM offices or 
> labs?) etc.
>
> OZS seems to bear many similarities to IBM's internal RETAIN system used by 
> SEs, FEs and CEs in support of customer sites.
>
> Does anyone know if any of the design or ideas or code from the original 
> internal RETAIN system were used to develop INFO/OZS?
>
> I was just curious as to where INFO/OZS may have originated, how it was 
> developed, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> All the best,
>
> Mark S. Waterbury
>
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Re: Wayne Bickerdike

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
My condolences.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Peter Vels <05bb014f92b6-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 4:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Wayne Bickerdike

External Message: Use Caution


It is with great sadness Linda Bickerdike and the Bickerdike family wish to
inform you of the unexpected but peaceful passing of Wayne Bickerdike on
Monday 6th of January 2025.

A memorial service will be held at 2 PM AEDT (GMT+11) Tuesday 21st of
January at Christ Church Geelong, Cnr Moorabool & McKillop Streets, Geelong.

A live stream of the service will be provided on jhfunerals.com.au for
those who cannot attend in person.

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Rupert Reynolds
Especially when the single instruction is Update Tree :-)

Roops

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, 14:56 Seymour J Metz,  wrote:

> You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed
> program you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability,
> maintainability, change tracking.
>
> On the flip side, it is legitimate to write pages of comments for a single
> instruction if that makes the code more readable or more maintainable.
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of The North American Becker <
> 0762a73125b7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 1:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: The mainfeame is alive
>
> External Message: Use Caution
>
>
> Ignore the last one, lol. I am a neophyte.
>
> https://youtu.be/z3Canfs_2Gc
>
> Nick Becker (HAL8943)
> Trident Services, Inc
> 319-451-8943
>
> --
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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Phil Smith III
Paul Gilmartin wrote, in part:
> X = 0;/* Initialize X.  */

Tsk. And that comment, if it were real, would be wrong!

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CSVINFO/MIPR logic

2025-01-12 Thread Joseph Reichman
Hi

I am looking for  the load address for 3 modules


I code the CSVINFO pass as a parameter the module I'm looking for it returns
the information since there are two more modules I am looking for I call the
CSVINFO calling the MIPR hoping it will get the next loaded module

However it (MIPR exit) presents the same load module 

How do I get the MIPR exit to present the next module in the JPA

Thanks


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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Phil Smith III
If you say so. Looked like Rexx to me!
(And yes, I was being pedantic--but I'd never have put a period on it anyway, 
as it adds nothing and wastes possibly valuable real estate.)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2025 12:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

That's PL/S, so the period is just punctuation. Stem variales are in Rexx.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 11:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


Because it doesn’t initialize X. -- it initializes X

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 11:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

Useles, yes, but why wrong?

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:56:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed program 
>you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability, 
>maintainability, change tracking.
>
I saw a PL/S listing on fiche.  Every source line bore a comment.
I surmised it was a coding standard, perhaps enforced mechanically.
And those comments likewise, might as well have been generated
mechanically.

I could write a macro to do that.

-- 
gil

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
When I was drafted into teaching a programming class I warned my student that I 
would take points off for pointless comments.

However, the putting the source code into the object code as comments in the 
PL/S output does serve a purpose. Or are you referrin to /* ... */ comment in 
the PL/S source code?

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 3:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:56:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed program 
>you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability, 
>maintainability, change tracking.
>
I saw a PL/S listing on fiche.  Every source line bore a comment.
I surmised it was a coding standard, perhaps enforced mechanically.
And those comments likewise, might as well have been generated
mechanically.

I could write a macro to do that.

--
gil

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Useles, yes, but why wrong?

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 8:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


Paul Gilmartin wrote, in part:
> X = 0;/* Initialize X.  */

Tsk. And that comment, if it were real, would be wrong!

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
That's important, but so are things like entry conditions. permissible values, 
restrictions.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
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נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Thomas Berg <0619bfe39560-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 8:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


As I see it the important comments are those that explain WHY it is coded
as it is.
The only times I really wanted comments when there were none is when I
wanted to know the reason for the coding at all or why it was coded in just
that way.
(E g when I was putting in changes in programs I didn't created and the
programmer was not availible (changed job, retired or dead.))

Thomas Berg

Den sön 12 jan. 2025 22:32Seymour J Metz  skrev:

> When I was drafted into teaching a programming class I warned my student
> that I would take points off for pointless comments.
>
> However, the putting the source code into the object code as comments in
> the PL/S output does serve a purpose. Or are you referrin to /* ... */
> comment in the PL/S source code?
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 3:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive
>
> External Message: Use Caution
>
>
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:56:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> >You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed
> program you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability,
> maintainability, change tracking.
> >
> I saw a PL/S listing on fiche.  Every source line bore a comment.
> I surmised it was a coding standard, perhaps enforced mechanically.
> And those comments likewise, might as well have been generated
> mechanically.
>
> I could write a macro to do that.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
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>
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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Phil Smith III
Because it doesn’t initialize X. -- it initializes X

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 11:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

Useles, yes, but why wrong?

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
Or its brother Compare and Form Codeword :-(


--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Rupert Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 7:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


Especially when the single instruction is Update Tree :-)

Roops

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025, 14:56 Seymour J Metz,  wrote:

> You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed
> program you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability,
> maintainability, change tracking.
>
> On the flip side, it is legitimate to write pages of comments for a single
> instruction if that makes the code more readable or more maintainable.
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of The North American Becker <
> 0762a73125b7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 1:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: The mainfeame is alive
>
> External Message: Use Caution
>
>
> Ignore the last one, lol. I am a neophyte.
>
> https://youtu.be/z3Canfs_2Gc
>
> Nick Becker (HAL8943)
> Trident Services, Inc
> 319-451-8943
>
> --
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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
That's PL/S, so the period is just punctuation. Stem variales are in Rexx.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 11:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


Because it doesn’t initialize X. -- it initializes X

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 11:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

Useles, yes, but why wrong?

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 21:32:20 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>However, the putting the source code nnto the object code as comments in the 
>PL/S output does serve a purpose. Or are you referrin to /* ... */ comment in 
>the PL/S source code?
> 
The latter.  My memory exaggerates, bit some felt as bad as:
 X = 0;/* Initialize X.  */

Others were just an empty /* */.  The mechanical enforcement was weak.

>
>From:  Paul Gilmartin 
>Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 3:31 PM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
>I surmised it was a coding standard, perhaps enforced mechanically.
>And those comments likewise, might as well have been generated
>mechanically.
>
>I could write a macro to do that.

-- 
gil

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Re: Wayne Bickerdike

2025-01-12 Thread Steve Thompson

Very sorry to hear this. My condolences.

Steve Thompson

On 1/12/2025 4:13 AM, Peter Vels wrote:

It is with great sadness Linda Bickerdike and the Bickerdike family wish to
inform you of the unexpected but peaceful passing of Wayne Bickerdike on
Monday 6th of January 2025.

A memorial service will be held at 2 PM AEDT (GMT+11) Tuesday 21st of
January at Christ Church Geelong, Cnr Moorabool & McKillop Streets, Geelong.

A live stream of the service will be provided on jhfunerals.com.au for
those who cannot attend in person.

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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Thomas Berg
As I see it the important comments are those that explain WHY it is coded
as it is.
The only times I really wanted comments when there were none is when I
wanted to know the reason for the coding at all or why it was coded in just
that way.
(E g when I was putting in changes in programs I didn't created and the
programmer was not availible (changed job, retired or dead.))

Thomas Berg

Den sön 12 jan. 2025 22:32Seymour J Metz  skrev:

> When I was drafted into teaching a programming class I warned my student
> that I would take points off for pointless comments.
>
> However, the putting the source code into the object code as comments in
> the PL/S output does serve a purpose. Or are you referrin to /* ... */
> comment in the PL/S source code?
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
>
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 3:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive
>
> External Message: Use Caution
>
>
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 14:56:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> >You don't usually see a comment on every line. In a well constructed
> program you only see comments where they add values, e.g., readability,
> maintainability, change tracking.
> >
> I saw a PL/S listing on fiche.  Every source line bore a comment.
> I surmised it was a coding standard, perhaps enforced mechanically.
> And those comments likewise, might as well have been generated
> mechanically.
>
> I could write a macro to do that.
>
> --
> gil
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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Bob Bridges
"Cargo-cult management", I like that!

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Q: What does the 'B' in "Benoit B Mandelbrot" stand for?
A: Benoit B Mandelbrot. */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 18:54

That sort of thing comes from cargo cult management.


From: Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 6:06 PM

The latter.  My memory exaggerates, bit some felt as bad as:
 X = 0;/* Initialize X.  */

Others were just an empty /* */.  The mechanical enforcement was weak.

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Re: The mainframe is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Howard Rifkind
 AND WELL

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2025, at 01:37, The North American Becker 
> <0762a73125b7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> https://youtu.be/z3Canfs_2Gc
> 
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Re: The mainfeame is alive

2025-01-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
That sort of thing comes from cargo cult management.

Be careful what metrics you apply, because people will attempt to optimize 
their evaluations at the expense of things that are important to the 
organization.

-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר




From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 6:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: The mainfeame is alive

External Message: Use Caution


On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 21:32:20 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>However, the putting the source code nnto the object code as comments in the 
>PL/S output does serve a purpose. Or are you referrin to /* ... */ comment in 
>the PL/S source code?
>
The latter.  My memory exaggerates, bit some felt as bad as:
 X = 0;/* Initialize X.  */

Others were just an empty /* */.  The mechanical enforcement was weak.

>
>From:  Paul Gilmartin
>Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2025 3:31 PM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
>I surmised it was a coding standard, perhaps enforced mechanically.
>And those comments likewise, might as well have been generated
>mechanically.
>
>I could write a macro to do that.

--
gil

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