Re: [sr #108339] ICC wargings in generated files

[Akim Demaille]

Hi!

> Le 17 juil. 2013 à 21:08, Maxim Prohorenko  a écrit :
> 
> URL:
>  
> 
> Details:
> 
> icc: .bison.cpp(2086): warning #161: unrecognized #pragma
> 
> GCC paragmas unrecognized in icc:
> 
> #if defined __GNUC__ && 407 <= __GNUC__ * 100 + __GNUC_MINOR__
> /* Suppress an incorrect diagnostic about yylval being uninitialized.  */
> # define YY_IGNORE_MAYBE_UNINITIALIZED_BEGIN \
>_Pragma ("GCC diagnostic push") \
>_Pragma ("GCC diagnostic ignored \"-Wuninitialized\"")\
>_Pragma ("GCC diagnostic ignored \"-Wmaybe-uninitialized\"")
> # define YY_IGNORE_MAYBE_UNINITIALIZED_END \
>_Pragma ("GCC diagnostic pop")
> #else
> /* Default value used for initialization, for pacifying older GCCs
>   or non-GCC compilers.  */
> static YYSTYPE yyval_default;
> # define YY_INITIAL_VALUE(Value) = Value
> #endif

Thanks for the report!  I’m installing the following patch.  Please confirm 
that it addresses your concern.

Cheers!



commit 921fec0422912159becf7360d3e12441be30c144
Author: Akim Demaille 
Date:   Sat Aug 18 11:27:24 2018 +0200

portability: don't use _Pragma with ICC.

ICC defines __GNUC__ [1], but does not support GCC's _Pragma for
diagnostics.  As a matter of fact, I believe it does not support
_Pragma at all (only #pragma) [2].

Reported by Maxim Prohorenko.
https://savannah.gnu.org/support/index.php?108339

[1] 
https://software.intel.com/en-us/cpp-compiler-18.0-developer-guide-and-reference-gcc-compatibility-and-interoperability
[2] 
https://software.intel.com/en-us/cpp-compiler-18.0-developer-guide-and-reference-pragmas

* data/c.m4 (YY_IGNORE_MAYBE_UNINITIALIZED_BEGIN): Exclude ICC from
the club.

diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS
index d6888bce..63f40c69 100644
--- a/NEWS
+++ b/NEWS
@@ -99,6 +99,11 @@ GNU Bison NEWS
   %printer/%destructor, which resulted in compiler errors if there are
   backslashes or double-quotes in the grammar file name.
 
+*** Portability on ICC
+
+  The Intel compiler claims compatibility with GCC, yet rejects its _Pragma.
+  Generated parsers now work around this.
+
 * Noteworthy changes in release 3.0.5 (2018-05-27) [stable]
 
 ** Bug fixes
diff --git a/THANKS b/THANKS
index 917fb300..ffea0f16 100644
--- a/THANKS
+++ b/THANKS
@@ -90,6 +90,7 @@ Martin Mokrejsmmokr...@natur.cuni.cz
 Martin Nylin  martin.ny...@linuxmail.org
 Matt Kraaikr...@alumni.cmu.edu
 Matt Rosing   ros...@peakfive.com
+Maxim Prohorenko  maxim.prohore...@gmail.com
 Michael Catanzaro mcatanz...@gnome.org
 Michael Felt  mamf...@gmail.com
 Michael Hayes m.ha...@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
diff --git a/data/c.m4 b/data/c.m4
index c28ffc61..346b8fd3 100644
--- a/data/c.m4
+++ b/data/c.m4
@@ -242,7 +242,7 @@ m4_define([b4_attribute_define],
 # define YYUSE(E) /* empty */
 #endif
 
-#if defined __GNUC__ && 407 <= __GNUC__ * 100 + __GNUC_MINOR__
+#if defined __GNUC__ && ! defined __ICC && 407 <= __GNUC__ * 100 + 
__GNUC_MINOR__
 /* Suppress an incorrect diagnostic about yylval being uninitialized.  */
 # define YY_IGNORE_MAYBE_UNINITIALIZED_BEGIN \
 _Pragma ("GCC diagnostic push") \


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Re: Bison 3.0.4 manual section 3.7.6 question

[Akim Demaille]

Hi!

> Le 15 févr. 2016 à 01:31, Gary L Peskin  a écrit :
> 
> In the Bison 3.0.4 manual in section 3.7.6 on destructors, the example
> shows:
> 
>  %union { char *string; }
>  %token  STRING1 STRING2
>  %type   string1 string2
>  %union { char character; }
>  %token  CHR
>  %type   chr
>  %token TAGLESS
> 
>  %destructor { } 
>  %destructor { free ($$); } <*>
>  %destructor { free ($$); printf ("%d", @$.first_line); } STRING1 string1
>  %destructor { printf ("Discarding tagless symbol.\n"); } <>
> 
> The text following the example says:
> 
>  However, when the parser discards a STRING1 or a string1, it also prints
> its line number to stdout. It performs only the second %destructor in this
> case, so it invokes free only once.
> 
> Should the manual reference the third %destructor instead of the second?  If
> not, I'm confused.
> 
> Thanks,

Actually thanks to you!  For your report… and your patience :)

I installed this.

commit a5ef14596461104ba38f1434816a1e90eae03609
Author: Akim Demaille 
Date:   Sat Aug 18 14:09:16 2018 +0200

doc: Clarify the destructor selection example

Reported by Gary L Peskin.
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-bison/2016-02/msg0.html

* doc/bison.texi (Destructor Decl): here.

diff --git a/THANKS b/THANKS
index ffea0f16..92c9a2cd 100644
--- a/THANKS
+++ b/THANKS
@@ -57,6 +57,7 @@ Florian Krohm flor...@edamail.fishkill.ibm.com
 Frank Heckenbach  fr...@g-n-u.de
 Frans Englich frans.engl...@telia.com
 Gabriel Rassoul   gabriel.rass...@epita.fr
+Gary L Peskin ga...@firstech.com
 Georg Sauthoffgsaut...@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de
 George Neuner gneun...@comcast.net
 Gilles Espinasse  g@free.fr
diff --git a/doc/bison.texi b/doc/bison.texi
index deb7182a..28c5e2b3 100644
--- a/doc/bison.texi
+++ b/doc/bison.texi
@@ -5072,10 +5072,9 @@ For example:
 guarantees that, when the parser discards any user-defined symbol that has a
 semantic type tag other than @code{}, it passes its semantic value
 to @code{free} by default.
-However, when the parser discards a @code{STRING1} or a @code{string1}, it also
-prints its line number to @code{stdout}.
-It performs only the second @code{%destructor} in this case, so it invokes
-@code{free} only once.
+However, when the parser discards a @code{STRING1} or a @code{string1},
+it uses the third @code{%destructor}, which frees it and
+prints its line number to @code{stdout} (@code{free} is invoked only once).
 Finally, the parser merely prints a message whenever it discards any symbol,
 such as @code{TAGLESS}, that has no semantic type tag.
 



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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

Yeah, we just have too much of that 50$ an hour labor here lying around. No
need to just adopt someone else's free hours and enthusiasm, no matter how
small the favor is.

I have some thing like 20 different research ideas and small helpful tasks
that I could just write about in the space of 15 minutes each day!

How experienced are you? Do you have a resume? How much time do you have
that's free? Does it have to be bison or can it be a subject of another
interest, provided it suits your fascination?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:41 PM Akim Demaille  wrote:

>
>
> > Le 17 août 2017 à 12:47, James Kay  a écrit :
> >
> > Kia ora,
> >
> > I saw that this package was looking for co-maintainers.
> > I’m happy to help, I'm a CS student in my final year at University.
>
> Hi James,
>
> Sorry we did not answer before.
>
> Help might still be needed, but before being a potential maintainer,
> you have to show some activity around bison.  For instance, come and
> answer questions on the mailing lists, handle bug reports, submit
> patches, etc.
>
> Cheers!
> ___
> help-bison@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison
___
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Re: Why is there this warning?

[Akim Demaille]

Hi!

> Le 2 sept. 2016 à 18:42, Balaco Baco  a écrit :
> 
> Take the file [file.y], compile it to generate tab.[ch] files and the compile 
> it (without linking) with gcc. It gives a warning in this step. Can fix this 
> warning?
> 
> Commands used and their output:
> 
> 
> $ bison -vd file.y
> $ gcc -Wall -c file.tab.c
> file.tab.c:1349: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘yylex’
> # A command that works, but it is out of scope for this message
> $ gcc -Wall file.tab.o [other object files] -lfl
> $
> 
> 
> Is this warning something expected?

Yes: the user is in charge of declaring yylex.  Of course this is not so nice, 
but it’s mainly historical.

> I was thinking about adding yylex() prototype to file.y, but I do not know 
> what it is,

yylex is the name of function that the parse calls to get tokens, i.e., it is 
the caller to the scanner/lexer/tokenizer.

> and I could not find it in documentation.

That’s really surprising.

https://www.gnu.org/software/bison/manual/html_node/Lexical.html


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Re: Is C++ Variant Considered Stable?

[Akim Demaille]

> Le 28 juin 2017 à 23:14, Simon Richter  a écrit :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 28.06.2017 21:33, David McCallum wrote:
> 
>> Are there changes pending for variant that might break my parser somewhere
>> down the road? Or is it considered safe to use?
> 
> Presumably, neither, as I haven't seen any feedback on its usefulness.
> 
> One problem is that you cannot use std::unique_ptr, as the types need
> to be copyable, not just movable. This is something that I could see a
> possible breaking change for – but I'm not sure who would implement such
> a change.

To clarify: AFAICT, they work well – I use them intensively in my project.
They do have a ‘limitation’: they don’t support things like $1, but
you should not do that, except for midrule actions, for which Bison 3.1
will provide a solution.

Move semantics is definitely a priority, for Bison 3.2.  It is reasonable
to expect this in October this year.
___
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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Laura Morales]

Is this sarcastic? Is this a passive-aggressive way to say something? I don't 
really understand the message.
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:01 AM
From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
To: a...@lrde.epita.fr
Cc: help-bison@gnu.org, james@pentest.nz
Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
Yeah, we just have too much of that 50$ an hour labor here lying around. No
need to just adopt someone else's free hours and enthusiasm, no matter how
small the favor is.

I have some thing like 20 different research ideas and small helpful tasks
that I could just write about in the space of 15 minutes each day!

How experienced are you? Do you have a resume? How much time do you have
that's free? Does it have to be bison or can it be a subject of another
interest, provided it suits your fascination?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:41 PM Akim Demaille  wrote:

>
>
> > Le 17 août 2017 à 12:47, James Kay  a écrit :
> >
> > Kia ora,
> >
> > I saw that this package was looking for co-maintainers.
> > I’m happy to help, I'm a CS student in my final year at University.
>
> Hi James,
>
> Sorry we did not answer before.
>
> Help might still be needed, but before being a potential maintainer,
> you have to show some activity around bison. For instance, come and
> answer questions on the mailing lists, handle bug reports, submit
> patches, etc.
>
> Cheers!
> ___
> help-bison@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison
___
help-bison@gnu.org 
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison[https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison]

___
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Re: error invalid directive: '%param'

[Akim Demaille]

Hi!

> Le 30 nov. 2015 à 14:50, spar...@email.it a écrit :
> 
> Hi,
> I'm trying to build an application called kregexpeditor but 'make' fails
> with the following error:
> 
> [  1%] [BISON][qregexpparser] Building parser with bison 2.7.12-4996
> qregexpparser.y:94.1-6: error: invalid directive: '%param'
> qregexpparser.y:94.8-27: error: syntax error, unexpected {...}
> CMakeFiles/kregexpeditorcommon.dir/build.make:53: recipe for target
> 'gen_qregexpparser.cc' failed
> make[2]: *** [gen_qregexpparser.cc] Error 1
> CMakeFiles/Makefile2:127: recipe for target
> 'CMakeFiles/kregexpeditorcommon.dir/all' failed
> make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/kregexpeditorcommon.dir/all] Error 2
> Makefile:127: recipe for target 'all' failed
> make: *** [all] Error 2
> 
> The line which the error refers to is the following:
> 
> %param { yyscan_t scanner }
> 
> and this is the complete source code of qregexpparser.y:
> 
> https://paste.kde.org/pzadtxiig
> 
> This is the command used in cmakelists.txt:
> 
> BISON_TARGET(qregexpparser qregexpparser.y
> ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/gen_qregexpparser.cc COMPILE_FLAGS "-d -p
> qregexp")
> 
> In my system is installed bison 2.7.1
> 
> Since my bison knowledge is 0, can anyone help me to track the error?

I don’t think you care today, but %param was introduced in Bison 3.0.

Cheers.
___
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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

I know that's what I thought. Some volunteer just came in with their
valuable time and got turned away. GNU is a free software organization -
part of their life blood is volunteers. Just because someone doesn't have a
background in that particular thing doesn't mean they should be dismissed.

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 7:22 AM Laura Morales  wrote:

> Is this sarcastic? Is this a passive-aggressive way to say something? I
> don't really understand the message.
>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:01 AM
> From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
> To: a...@lrde.epita.fr
> Cc: help-bison@gnu.org, james@pentest.nz
> Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
> Yeah, we just have too much of that 50$ an hour labor here lying around. No
> need to just adopt someone else's free hours and enthusiasm, no matter how
> small the favor is.
>
> I have some thing like 20 different research ideas and small helpful tasks
> that I could just write about in the space of 15 minutes each day!
>
> How experienced are you? Do you have a resume? How much time do you have
> that's free? Does it have to be bison or can it be a subject of another
> interest, provided it suits your fascination?
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:41 PM Akim Demaille  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > Le 17 août 2017 à 12:47, James Kay  a écrit :
> > >
> > > Kia ora,
> > >
> > > I saw that this package was looking for co-maintainers.
> > > I’m happy to help, I'm a CS student in my final year at University.
> >
> > Hi James,
> >
> > Sorry we did not answer before.
> >
> > Help might still be needed, but before being a potential maintainer,
> > you have to show some activity around bison. For instance, come and
> > answer questions on the mailing lists, handle bug reports, submit
> > patches, etc.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > ___
> > help-bison@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison
> ___
> help-bison@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison[https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison]
>
___
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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Laura Morales]

I think you are confusing the roles of "contributor" and "maintainer".
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 8:49 PM
From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
To: laure...@mail.com
Cc: a...@lrde.epita.fr, help-bison@gnu.org, james@pentest.nz
Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer

I know that's what I thought. Some volunteer just came in with their valuable 
time and got turned away. GNU is a free software organization - part of their 
life blood is volunteers. Just because someone doesn't have a background in 
that particular thing doesn't mean they should be dismissed. 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 7:22 AM Laura Morales 
mailto:laure...@mail.com]> wrote:Is this sarcastic? Is this 
a passive-aggressive way to say something? I don't really understand the 
message.
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:01 AM
From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
mailto:kennethadammil...@gmail.com]>
To: a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr]
Cc: help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org], 
james@pentest.nz[mailto:james@pentest.nz]
Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
Yeah, we just have too much of that 50$ an hour labor here lying around. No
need to just adopt someone else's free hours and enthusiasm, no matter how
small the favor is.

I have some thing like 20 different research ideas and small helpful tasks
that I could just write about in the space of 15 minutes each day!

How experienced are you? Do you have a resume? How much time do you have
that's free? Does it have to be bison or can it be a subject of another
interest, provided it suits your fascination?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:41 PM Akim Demaille 
mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr]> wrote:

>
>
> > Le 17 août 2017 à 12:47, James Kay 
> > mailto:james@pentest.nz]> a écrit :
> >
> > Kia ora,
> >
> > I saw that this package was looking for co-maintainers.
> > I’m happy to help, I'm a CS student in my final year at University.
>
> Hi James,
>
> Sorry we did not answer before.
>
> Help might still be needed, but before being a potential maintainer,
> you have to show some activity around bison. For instance, come and
> answer questions on the mailing lists, handle bug reports, submit
> patches, etc.
>
> Cheers!
> ___
> help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org] 
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison
___
help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org] 
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison[https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison][https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison%5Bhttps://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison%5D]

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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

Hey, I didn't volunteer, just that I bet that the volunteer doesn't even
see or know about the difference.

In any case, that looked like a possible penetration test event. No one
just should just give permissions away without authentication - I didn't
know he was asking for that. I just thought it was help - the first thing I
thought was, ok, let's start giving suggestions and guiding feedback on how
to move forward.

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM Laura Morales  wrote:

> I think you are confusing the roles of "contributor" and "maintainer".
>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 8:49 PM
> From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
> To: laure...@mail.com
> Cc: a...@lrde.epita.fr, help-bison@gnu.org, james@pentest.nz
> Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
>
> I know that's what I thought. Some volunteer just came in with their
> valuable time and got turned away. GNU is a free software organization -
> part of their life blood is volunteers. Just because someone doesn't have a
> background in that particular thing doesn't mean they should be dismissed.
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 7:22 AM Laura Morales  laure...@mail.com]> wrote:Is this sarcastic? Is this a passive-aggressive
> way to say something? I don't really understand the message.
>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:01 AM
> From: "Kenneth Adam Miller"  kennethadammil...@gmail.com]>
> To: a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr]
> Cc: help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org], james@pentest.nz
> [mailto:james@pentest.nz]
> Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
> Yeah, we just have too much of that 50$ an hour labor here lying around. No
> need to just adopt someone else's free hours and enthusiasm, no matter how
> small the favor is.
>
> I have some thing like 20 different research ideas and small helpful tasks
> that I could just write about in the space of 15 minutes each day!
>
> How experienced are you? Do you have a resume? How much time do you have
> that's free? Does it have to be bison or can it be a subject of another
> interest, provided it suits your fascination?
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:41 PM Akim Demaille  a...@lrde.epita.fr]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > Le 17 août 2017 à 12:47, James Kay  james@pentest.nz]> a écrit :
> > >
> > > Kia ora,
> > >
> > > I saw that this package was looking for co-maintainers.
> > > I’m happy to help, I'm a CS student in my final year at University.
> >
> > Hi James,
> >
> > Sorry we did not answer before.
> >
> > Help might still be needed, but before being a potential maintainer,
> > you have to show some activity around bison. For instance, come and
> > answer questions on the mailing lists, handle bug reports, submit
> > patches, etc.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > ___
> > help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison
> ___
> help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org]
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison[https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison][https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison%5Bhttps://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison%5D]
> 
>
___
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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Laura Morales]

I still don't understand what you are writing and where you want to go with 
this.
Anyway if you, as you stated, have no background whatsoever on the software 
that you are offering to maintain, and if you are not even willing to join the 
bug tracker, then I'm afraid you have zero qualifications to be a decent 
maintainer. You are very welcome however to use your precious time to 
contribute anything that you are capable to contribute.

PS: I don't speak for other maintainers. I'm only a user.
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:28 PM
From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
To: laure...@mail.com
Cc: a...@lrde.epita.fr, help-bison@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer

Hey, I didn't volunteer, just that I bet that the volunteer doesn't even see or 
know about the difference. 

In any case, that looked like a possible penetration test event. No one just 
should just give permissions away without authentication - I didn't know he was 
asking for that. I just thought it was help - the first thing I thought was, 
ok, let's start giving suggestions and guiding feedback on how to move forward. 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM Laura Morales 
mailto:laure...@mail.com]> wrote:I think you are confusing 
the roles of "contributor" and "maintainer".
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 8:49 PM
From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
mailto:kennethadammil...@gmail.com]>
To: laure...@mail.com[mailto:laure...@mail.com]
Cc: a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr], 
help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org], 
james@pentest.nz[mailto:james@pentest.nz]
Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer

I know that's what I thought. Some volunteer just came in with their valuable 
time and got turned away. GNU is a free software organization - part of their 
life blood is volunteers. Just because someone doesn't have a background in 
that particular thing doesn't mean they should be dismissed. 

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 7:22 AM Laura Morales 
mailto:laure...@mail.com][mailto:laure...@mail.com[mailto:laure...@mail.com]]>
 wrote:Is this sarcastic? Is this a passive-aggressive way to say something? I 
don't really understand the message.
 
 

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:01 AM
From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
mailto:kennethadammil...@gmail.com][mailto:kennethadammil...@gmail.com[mailto:kennethadammil...@gmail.com]]>
To: 
a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr][mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr]]
Cc: 
help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org][mailto:help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org]],
 
james@pentest.nz[mailto:james@pentest.nz][mailto:james@pentest.nz[mailto:james@pentest.nz]]
Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
Yeah, we just have too much of that 50$ an hour labor here lying around. No
need to just adopt someone else's free hours and enthusiasm, no matter how
small the favor is.

I have some thing like 20 different research ideas and small helpful tasks
that I could just write about in the space of 15 minutes each day!

How experienced are you? Do you have a resume? How much time do you have
that's free? Does it have to be bison or can it be a subject of another
interest, provided it suits your fascination?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:41 PM Akim Demaille 
mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr][mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr]]>
 wrote:

>
>
> > Le 17 août 2017 à 12:47, James Kay 
> > mailto:james@pentest.nz][mailto:james@pentest.nz[mailto:james@pentest.nz]]>
> >  a écrit :
> >
> > Kia ora,
> >
> > I saw that this package was looking for co-maintainers.
> > I’m happy to help, I'm a CS student in my final year at University.
>
> Hi James,
>
> Sorry we did not answer before.
>
> Help might still be needed, but before being a potential maintainer,
> you have to show some activity around bison. For instance, come and
> answer questions on the mailing lists, handle bug reports, submit
> patches, etc.
>
> Cheers!
> ___
> help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org][mailto:help-bison@gnu.org[mailto:help-bison@gnu.org]]
>  
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison[https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison]
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Re: Co-Maintainer

[Kenneth Adam Miller]

Hey, I just said I'm not the volunteer and there's nothing at all hard to
understand about what I just said.

A volunteer came in and said they had a bachelor's degree. No one pointed
to them anything helpful at all about how they could help. They probably
don't know how your organization is structured, and are just imagining you
being helped after they find out what they can do for the organization. I
doubt they really want or understand what power and responsibility is in
order to take it, but then no one is thinking along those lines in order
for there to be a revision of their volunteer effort.

If you carefully read what both of you just said, I'm sure anyone can see
it appears to be a pridefully contemptuous and unhelpful dismissal. What do
you know about that person's background in order to be a judge of whether
they will be good and helpful? Did they provide a resume? No, so then what
do you know in order to be telling other people who is and isn't qualified
or will be qualified?

My point is - and we don't need to fluctuate to any extremal vicissitudes
of judgement about anything - people are not likely to be acquainted with
your project when they come in. But if you want to be helped, and you care
about the community, you could mentor them with something really small each
day and some conversation on the channel and point them on the track to
become what it is you need, or at least be bothered to *ask* that people if
they qualify for what it is you want. It's not as though they can't learn
what it is that is needed in order for the organization to continue - and
it usually takes an insider to *efficiently* learn this stuff to begin with
anyway. They need you to guide them, and you need their time and hours in
order for the open source community to improve.

Your competitors - businesses - pay people a living wage to execute on a
project. Software engineer labor hours are *not* cheap. Those guys have
stressful days full of tinkering with other people's problems on software
they may not be enthusiastic about. When someone comes here to offer their
time, they likely ideate what it will be like to have something like that
finished. Not that they have to work unfit or otherwise even unpleasant
people in their free time to begin with.

For that matter, you don't even know their motivations for coming in to
begin with. They may have looked up to other maintainers before coming in -
you don't know.

If we had this to do over, when he came in the response would first be to
ask if he's read and understood what those roles are. Then ask what is
background is in order to know where he is suited to help. Then, to offer
some different project suggestions on where they could get started that are
suited to their skills - whatever they may be.


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 12:46 PM Laura Morales  wrote:

> I still don't understand what you are writing and where you want to go
> with this.
> Anyway if you, as you stated, have no background whatsoever on the
> software that you are offering to maintain, and if you are not even willing
> to join the bug tracker, then I'm afraid you have zero qualifications to be
> a decent maintainer. You are very welcome however to use your precious time
> to contribute anything that you are capable to contribute.
>
> PS: I don't speak for other maintainers. I'm only a user.
>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 9:28 PM
> From: "Kenneth Adam Miller" 
> To: laure...@mail.com
> Cc: a...@lrde.epita.fr, help-bison@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
>
> Hey, I didn't volunteer, just that I bet that the volunteer doesn't even
> see or know about the difference.
>
> In any case, that looked like a possible penetration test event. No one
> just should just give permissions away without authentication - I didn't
> know he was asking for that. I just thought it was help - the first thing I
> thought was, ok, let's start giving suggestions and guiding feedback on how
> to move forward.
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM Laura Morales  laure...@mail.com]> wrote:I think you are confusing the roles of
> "contributor" and "maintainer".
>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 8:49 PM
> From: "Kenneth Adam Miller"  kennethadammil...@gmail.com]>
> To: laure...@mail.com[mailto:laure...@mail.com]
> Cc: a...@lrde.epita.fr[mailto:a...@lrde.epita.fr], help-bison@gnu.org
> [mailto:help-bison@gnu.org], james@pentest.nz[mailto:
> james@pentest.nz]
> Subject: Re: Co-Maintainer
>
> I know that's what I thought. Some volunteer just came in with their
> valuable time and got turned away. GNU is a free software organization -
> part of their life blood is volunteers. Just because someone doesn't have a
> background in that particular thing doesn't mean they should be dismissed.
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 7:22 AM Laura Morales  laure...@mail.com][mailto:laure...@mail.com[mailto:laure...@mail.com]]>
> wrote:Is this sarcastic? Is this a passive-aggressive way to say something?
> I don't really unde