Re: [RFC] Rust in GRUB
On 22/03/2025 09:42, Maxim Fomin wrote:
> On Friday, March 21st, 2025 at 8:51 PM, Vladimir 'phcoder' Serbinenko
> wrote:
>
>> Hello, I was playing with adding Rust embedded in GRUB. I’ve pushed results
>> to 2 repos:
>> Module goes to https://github.com/phcoder/grub-rust-hello/tree/master
>> Changes in GRUB are found at https://github.com/phcoder/GRUB/tree/rust
>> Notes on implementation:
>> Only i386-pc is implemented right now but it’s not a technical limit, just
>> others are not implemented yet.
>> I changed GRUB to use ET_DYN (.so) binaries as modules instead of ET_REL
>> (.o).
>> I disabled mregparm=3. -Z regparm=3 in Rust generally works but the calls to
>> memcpy() still uses regparm=0 calling convention. Perhaps it’s a bug on Rust
>> side, perhaps we need an adapter on our side.
>> It’s compiled with panic=abort. Unwinding panics require rust_eh_personality
>> that isn’t implemented yet.
>> src/lib.rs is an example of hello world and grub_lib.rs is a grub-rust
>> adapter. Ideally they should be in separate crates
>> Every module now pulls in rust runtime. Idk how to switch to a shared runtime
>> Consider it more an experiment and request for comments than a working
>> product. I would be interested to hear any comments. Especially it’s
>> interesting to hear from Rust folks as to how to make it more idiomatic Rust.
>
> I found it indicative that the post about introducing Rust into the project
> lacks any technical discussion about the merits of doing so. This agrees with
> the Rust criticism point that bringing Rust into project is often caused by
> programmers wanting to show off ("me/project is cool because it has Rust")
> rather than technical merits.
>
> Best regards,
> Maxim Fomin
Hello,
by lack of knowledge I have no idea about merits of rust compared to any other
programming language.
Generally speaking my wish as an end user and packager is that providing a new
stable release takes priority over any enhancement or addition of new features.
Maybe not an issue for Debian, but how many distributions have the resources
needed to check and carry hundreds of patches?
Cheers,
Didier
___
Grub-devel mailing list
Grub-devel@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: [RFC] Rust in GRUB
Le sam. 22 mars 2025, 03:20, Andrew Hamilton a écrit : > Hello, > > Personally, I really like this idea. > > I'm not yet a Rust programmer but I am happy to learn... and perhaps > there are others like me that would take this as an opportunity to > learn while doing something like porting a Grub module from C to Rust > if we had that framework in place. > This is more complicated than it seems. Mainly for 2 reasons: 1. For i386-pc core with part_msdos+biosdisk+ has to fit into 31K (compressed) of an old MBR gap. Simple programs in Rust even stripped clock in 10-50K. Idk if this can be reduced somehow. 2. ia64 has no rust AFAICT. I'm unsure what to do with it. Whether to drop ia64 is an interesting question that would need to be discussed separately. 3. Sparc64 allocates only about 1M of heap. Idk if it's enough for Rust. Sparc64 has more RAM than this even in the most restricted scenario but we need to figure out MMU if we want more heap Neither however prevents from creating new code in rust or to port some modules to C. New filesystem sounds like a perfect candidate for rust. Rewriting a part map that isn't msdos (due to i386-pc) or gpt (due to ia64) is also a possibility > > It seems like a nice way to hopefully eliminate or reduce certain > kinds of bugs as well. > > It may also be a nice opportunity to make some common processes with > the Rust community like perhaps using rustfmt as the coding standard > to reduce burden on developers and maintainers to deal with formatting > and focus on functionality. > Do you know how to bring them in? Already at current stage their expertise is valuable in order to get an idiomatic Rust. > > I like that you have a small demo module as well in what you did, it > shows a nice starting point for people wanting to take on a module if > this gains traction like I hope it will. > > Thanks! > Andrew > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 3:53 PM Vladimir 'phcoder' Serbinenko > wrote: > > > > Hello, I was playing with adding Rust embedded in GRUB. I’ve pushed > results to 2 repos: > > Module goes to https://github.com/phcoder/grub-rust-hello/tree/master > > Changes in GRUB are found at https://github.com/phcoder/GRUB/tree/rust > > Notes on implementation: > > Only i386-pc is implemented right now but it’s not a technical limit, > just others are not implemented yet. > > I changed GRUB to use ET_DYN (.so) binaries as modules instead of ET_REL > (.o). > > I disabled mregparm=3. -Z regparm=3 in Rust generally works but the > calls to memcpy() still uses regparm=0 calling convention. Perhaps it’s a > bug on Rust side, perhaps we need an adapter on our side. > > It’s compiled with panic=abort. Unwinding panics require > rust_eh_personality that isn’t implemented yet. > > src/lib.rs is an example of hello world and grub_lib.rs is a grub-rust > adapter. Ideally they should be in separate crates > > Every module now pulls in rust runtime. Idk how to switch to a shared > runtime > > Consider it more an experiment and request for comments than a working > product. I would be interested to hear any comments. Especially it’s > interesting to hear from Rust folks as to how to make it more idiomatic > Rust. > > > > ___ > > Grub-devel mailing list > > Grub-devel@gnu.org > > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel > > ___ > Grub-devel mailing list > Grub-devel@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel > ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: [RFC] Rust in GRUB
On Friday, March 21st, 2025 at 8:51 PM, Vladimir 'phcoder' Serbinenko
wrote:
> Hello, I was playing with adding Rust embedded in GRUB. I’ve pushed results
> to 2 repos:
> Module goes to https://github.com/phcoder/grub-rust-hello/tree/master
> Changes in GRUB are found at https://github.com/phcoder/GRUB/tree/rust
> Notes on implementation:
> Only i386-pc is implemented right now but it’s not a technical limit, just
> others are not implemented yet.
> I changed GRUB to use ET_DYN (.so) binaries as modules instead of ET_REL (.o).
> I disabled mregparm=3. -Z regparm=3 in Rust generally works but the calls to
> memcpy() still uses regparm=0 calling convention. Perhaps it’s a bug on Rust
> side, perhaps we need an adapter on our side.
> It’s compiled with panic=abort. Unwinding panics require rust_eh_personality
> that isn’t implemented yet.
> src/lib.rs is an example of hello world and grub_lib.rs is a grub-rust
> adapter. Ideally they should be in separate crates
> Every module now pulls in rust runtime. Idk how to switch to a shared runtime
> Consider it more an experiment and request for comments than a working
> product. I would be interested to hear any comments. Especially it’s
> interesting to hear from Rust folks as to how to make it more idiomatic Rust.
I found it indicative that the post about introducing Rust into the project
lacks any technical discussion about the merits of doing so. This agrees with
the Rust criticism point that bringing Rust into project is often caused by
programmers wanting to show off ("me/project is cool because it has Rust")
rather than technical merits.
Best regards,
Maxim Fomin___
Grub-devel mailing list
Grub-devel@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
