Re: Ownership of the Rhino project

2015-01-29 Thread Gavin Sharp 
OK, I have updated https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/Other#Rhino
accordingly. Please feel free to adjust the information there (peers,
source directory, Bugzilla component, URL, discussion group, etc.).

To adjust the newsgroup/mailing lists you can file a
mozilla.org::Discussion Forums bug at
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=mozilla.org&component=Discussion%20Forums.

It seems like there is a lot of "legacy" infrastructure related to
Rhino that is no longer being used. Beyond the mailing list, I take it
you're also no longer using Mozilla's Bugzilla instance to track your
bugs? The "Rhino" product still exists there, and some people have
filed bugs fairly recently (see:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?chfieldto=Now&chfieldfrom=-3m&product=Rhino).
Assuming so, it probably makes sense to get product "Retired", which
you can ask for by filing a bug at
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=bugzilla.mozilla.org&component=Administration.

Gavin

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Greg Brail  wrote:
> Thanks for following up! I also got help from the GitHub admins.
>
> Hannes Wallnoefer is the former maintainer, and he is in favor of this
> change. We had a discussion on this thread:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla-rhino/g-7k20DCQMo
>
> and he also asked Sonatype to grant me access.
>
> https://issues.sonatype.org/browse/OSSRH-13520
>
> At this point I have the access that I need to proceed, but I understand
> the need to have consensus and I hope that the stuff above will help.
>
> We also seem to have a mailing list issue. According to this page:
>
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/Rhino/Community
>
> the community hasn't been using the "js-engine.rhino" group for a long time
> due to spam issues, but it sounds like people are posting on it again.
>
> Is there a way that we can shut that old group down and redirect people to
> only one group?
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Gavin Sharp  wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Did this request already get resolved? I see you've recently been
>> committing to the Mozilla Rhino repository:
>> https://github.com/mozilla/rhino/commits?author=gbrail
>>
>> For the purposes of updating the ownership info at
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/All#Rhino, it would be ideal to get
>> sign-off from the existing owner/peers if possible (perhaps already
>> done on the Rhino discussion list post you mention? I couldn't see any
>> relevant discussions at
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mozilla.dev.tech.js-engine.rhino).
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Greg Brail  wrote:
>> > I'd like to propose myself as the new owner of the Rhino project.
>> >
>> > The official Mozilla Rhino distribution in GitHub has been idle for a
>> while
>> > now, but I've been maintaining a fork at https://github.com/apigee/rhino
>> > and there we've been able to pull together a number of contributions. I'd
>> > like to move these contributions back to the official project and start
>> > doing releases again.
>> >
>> > I emailed the Rhino discussion list about this and the people there were
>> > fairly positive, and I emailed Brendan Eich as well.
>> >
>> > Please let me know what we can do to get this project moving again.
>> Thanks!
>> >
>> > --
>> > *greg brail* | *apigee * | twitter @gbrail
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > governance mailing list
>> > governance@lists.mozilla.org
>> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *greg brail* | *apigee * | twitter @gbrail
> 
> ___
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Re: Logging All Public Project IRC Channels

2015-01-29 Thread Benjamin Kerensa 
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Byron Jones  wrote:
> Gijs Kruitbosch wrote:
>>
>> The de facto standard place seems to be http://logs.glob.uno/ (CC'ing
>> glob, who AFAIK is running this). I don't know if there's interest in
>> moving that somewhere more mozilla-official-y.
>
>
> there's been some objections to that - in particular bug 1125827 comment 9
> and onwards.

There can be objections we do not need everyone to agree in order to
move this forward especially if the practice is more consistent with
our values and being more transparent about our project.

>
>> I wouldn't much care either way, but I guess we could check with IT,
>> who already admin the  IRC server anyway, if other people do feel
>> strongly?
>
> i'm happy to continue to run my logging service on my own infrastructure for
> the foreseeable future.  the hosting costs are minimal, and i enjoy running
> it :)

We could setup a simple cname :) although if we are in effect moving a
policy forward then it might still make sense for Mozilla to be the
keeper of the logs especially for purposes of communicating project
discussions out to those who might want it.

>
> --
> byron jones - :glob - bugzilla.mozilla.org team -
>
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Re: Logging All Public Project IRC Channels

2015-01-29 Thread Yvan Boily 
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Benjamin Kerensa 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Byron Jones  wrote:
> > Gijs Kruitbosch wrote:
> >>
> >> The de facto standard place seems to be http://logs.glob.uno/ (CC'ing
> >> glob, who AFAIK is running this). I don't know if there's interest in
> >> moving that somewhere more mozilla-official-y.
> >
> >
> > there's been some objections to that - in particular bug 1125827 comment
> 9
> > and onwards.
>
> There can be objections we do not need everyone to agree in order to
> move this forward especially if the practice is more consistent with
> our values and being more transparent about our project.
>
>
Sure we could. But then, if it is determined to be a violation or breach,
or we get negative press because someone leaks PII on an irc log hosted by
Mozilla, there will be a public log of the fact that people raised concerns
but others decided to move forward without waiting for legal/policy
guidance.

Don't forget that privacy is as much a core value at Mozilla as
transparency.  Privacy should not be the place to move fast and break
things.
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Re: Logging All Public Project IRC Channels

2015-01-29 Thread Benjamin Kerensa 
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Yvan Boily  wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Benjamin Kerensa 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Byron Jones  wrote:
>> > Gijs Kruitbosch wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The de facto standard place seems to be http://logs.glob.uno/ (CC'ing
>> >> glob, who AFAIK is running this). I don't know if there's interest in
>> >> moving that somewhere more mozilla-official-y.
>> >
>> >
>> > there's been some objections to that - in particular bug 1125827 comment
>> > 9
>> > and onwards.
>>
>> There can be objections we do not need everyone to agree in order to
>> move this forward especially if the practice is more consistent with
>> our values and being more transparent about our project.
>>
>
> Sure we could. But then, if it is determined to be a violation or breach, or
> we get negative press because someone leaks PII on an irc log hosted by
> Mozilla, there will be a public log of the fact that people raised concerns
> but others decided to move forward without waiting for legal/policy
> guidance.
>
> Don't forget that privacy is as much a core value at Mozilla as
> transparency.  Privacy should not be the place to move fast and break
> things.


By moving forward I mean moving to the next step which is privacy and
legal review. But in talking with a few different people it seems this
will pass with flying colors since we would just be bringing this
communication medium into parity with other mediums like mailing
lists.
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Re: Ownership of the Rhino project

2015-01-29 Thread mitchell baker 
thanks!

mitchell

On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Gavin Sharp  wrote:

> OK, I have updated https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/Other#Rhino
> accordingly. Please feel free to adjust the information there (peers,
> source directory, Bugzilla component, URL, discussion group, etc.).
>
> To adjust the newsgroup/mailing lists you can file a
> mozilla.org::Discussion Forums bug at
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=mozilla.org&component=Discussion%20Forums
> .
>
> It seems like there is a lot of "legacy" infrastructure related to
> Rhino that is no longer being used. Beyond the mailing list, I take it
> you're also no longer using Mozilla's Bugzilla instance to track your
> bugs? The "Rhino" product still exists there, and some people have
> filed bugs fairly recently (see:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?chfieldto=Now&chfieldfrom=-3m&product=Rhino
> ).
> Assuming so, it probably makes sense to get product "Retired", which
> you can ask for by filing a bug at
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=bugzilla.mozilla.org&component=Administration
> .
>
> Gavin
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Greg Brail  wrote:
> > Thanks for following up! I also got help from the GitHub admins.
> >
> > Hannes Wallnoefer is the former maintainer, and he is in favor of this
> > change. We had a discussion on this thread:
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla-rhino/g-7k20DCQMo
> >
> > and he also asked Sonatype to grant me access.
> >
> > https://issues.sonatype.org/browse/OSSRH-13520
> >
> > At this point I have the access that I need to proceed, but I understand
> > the need to have consensus and I hope that the stuff above will help.
> >
> > We also seem to have a mailing list issue. According to this page:
> >
> >
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/Rhino/Community
> >
> > the community hasn't been using the "js-engine.rhino" group for a long
> time
> > due to spam issues, but it sounds like people are posting on it again.
> >
> > Is there a way that we can shut that old group down and redirect people
> to
> > only one group?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Gavin Sharp 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Greg,
> >>
> >> Did this request already get resolved? I see you've recently been
> >> committing to the Mozilla Rhino repository:
> >> https://github.com/mozilla/rhino/commits?author=gbrail
> >>
> >> For the purposes of updating the ownership info at
> >> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/All#Rhino, it would be ideal to get
> >> sign-off from the existing owner/peers if possible (perhaps already
> >> done on the Rhino discussion list post you mention? I couldn't see any
> >> relevant discussions at
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mozilla.dev.tech.js-engine.rhino).
> >>
> >> Gavin
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Greg Brail  wrote:
> >> > I'd like to propose myself as the new owner of the Rhino project.
> >> >
> >> > The official Mozilla Rhino distribution in GitHub has been idle for a
> >> while
> >> > now, but I've been maintaining a fork at
> https://github.com/apigee/rhino
> >> > and there we've been able to pull together a number of contributions.
> I'd
> >> > like to move these contributions back to the official project and
> start
> >> > doing releases again.
> >> >
> >> > I emailed the Rhino discussion list about this and the people there
> were
> >> > fairly positive, and I emailed Brendan Eich as well.
> >> >
> >> > Please let me know what we can do to get this project moving again.
> >> Thanks!
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *greg brail* | *apigee * | twitter @gbrail
> >> > 
> >> > ___
> >> > governance mailing list
> >> > governance@lists.mozilla.org
> >> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *greg brail* | *apigee * | twitter @gbrail
> > 
> > ___
> > governance mailing list
> > governance@lists.mozilla.org
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
> ___
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>
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Re: Logging All Public Project IRC Channels

2015-01-29 Thread Francesco Lodolo [:flod] 

Il 29/01/15 22:15, Benjamin Kerensa ha scritto:
By moving forward I mean moving to the next step which is privacy and 
legal review. But in talking with a few different people it seems this 
will pass with flying colors since we would just be bringing this 
communication medium into parity with other mediums like mailing lists.
I disagree on the last point. The "contract" when you subscribe to a 
mailing list is clear, and it's part of the medium itself: other 
subjects will have a copy of your message (but that doesn't make it 
public), archives might be accessible to the world or only people 
subscribed to the list. Everything is clearly explained when you subscribe.


But ignoring that, I don't see anyone talking about "time": how long are 
you suggesting to keep these logs? 'Forever' is really not something I'm 
comfortable with.


On a side note, I confess that I'm already annoyed when people copy and 
paste pieces of discussions from IRC to Bugzilla as a shortcut, I hope 
they don't start linking IRC logs instead with persistent official logs 
available.


Francesco
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